This guy gets it. All that will happen is that C. Wards will be funneled directly into Lessers. Smart people will do the math and figure out it's cheaper to buy the Lesser than spend 1000 Zen on a C. Ward.
No he missed it by a mile - if C.wards are selling at price X in the AH and you need a C.ward to make an enchantment then why would people sell the enchantment for less than X even if the C.ward cost them nothing? The price of enchantments will fluctuate with the price of C.wards because people know that the current price of C.wards is what the market will bear.
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tripsofthrymrMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,624Community Moderator
No he missed it by a mile - if C.wards are selling at price X in the AH and you need a C.ward to make an enchantment then why would people sell the enchantment for less than X even if the C.ward cost them nothing? The price of enchantments will fluctuate with the price of C.wards because people know that the current price of C.wards is what the market will bear.
That's still half a whole game price. Is a single mount (even if account bound) worth half a full game? definitely not for me.
In general, I agree - but if you have more time than money, and are patient, it could cost you much much less, (or no money at all). This, IMO, is figured into the price, and why they tend to be high. If you could not earn Zen in game, then my bet is prices would be a lot lower.
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
No he missed it by a mile - if C.wards are selling at price X in the AH and you need a C.ward to make an enchantment then why would people sell the enchantment for less than X even if the C.ward cost them nothing? The price of enchantments will fluctuate with the price of C.wards because people know that the current price of C.wards is what the market will bear.
What I'm pointing out is that your value of X is going to come back down. It's inflated at the moment by people trying to hoard coalescents anticipating the price going up. However, when all of the lock box openers start flooding the market with lesser enchantments of every variety those people who bought up all of the coalescents won't be able to sell them for the huge profit like they were hoping. Think about it. How is someone going to sell coalescents for 500k or more when lesser vorpals and lesser soulforges are sitting unsold in the AH for 350k with a whole bunch more being added to the market every day from the people who formerly sold coalescents but are now selling lesser enchantments?
The market price is driven by the supply of coalescents and the demand for lesser enchantments. The supply is staying the same. There won't be any less coalescents acquired by people. The demand is also not going to change (it has temporarily because of speculation). But long term the price will stabilize.
What I'm pointing out is that your value of X is going to come back down. It's inflated at the moment by people trying to hoard coalescents anticipating the price going up. However, when all of the lock box openers start flooding the market with lesser enchantments of every variety those people who bought up all of the coalescents won't be able to sell them for the huge profit like they were hoping. Think about it. How is someone going to sell coalescents for 500k or more when lesser vorpals and lesser soulforges are sitting unsold in the AH for 350k with a whole bunch more being added to the market every day from the people who formerly sold coalescents but are now selling lesser enchantments?
The market price is driven by the supply of coalescents and the demand for lesser enchantments. The supply is staying the same. There won't be any less coalescents acquired by people. The demand is also not going to change (it has temporarily because of speculation). But long term the price will stabilize.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't that cause other issues? Since people opening lockboxes will probably stick to lessers for a quick return and Coalescent Wards will (hopefully) stay below the zen market value, wouldn't there be a severe lack of Coalescent Wards being sold in the AH or even simply being bought with zen for higher level enchants?
What I'm pointing out is that your value of X is going to come back down. It's inflated at the moment by people trying to hoard coalescents anticipating the price going up. However, when all of the lock box openers start flooding the market with lesser enchantments of every variety those people who bought up all of the coalescents won't be able to sell them for the huge profit like they were hoping. Think about it. How is someone going to sell coalescents for 500k or more when lesser vorpals and lesser soulforges are sitting unsold in the AH for 350k with a whole bunch more being added to the market every day from the people who formerly sold coalescents but are now selling lesser enchantments?
The market price is driven by the supply of coalescents and the demand for lesser enchantments. The supply is staying the same. There won't be any less coalescents acquired by people. The demand is also not going to change (it has temporarily because of speculation). But long term the price will stabilize.
And then Cryptic will eventually seize that loophole in a future patch, causing enchantments to bind at a certain level (let's say they exempt lesser status as unbound, but perhaps make greater or perfect enchants to be bound)... further strengthening their pressure chokehold on the playerbase to purchase coalwards directly with tarmalune bars or ZEN.
Watch it happen.
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tripsofthrymrMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,624Community Moderator
What I'm pointing out is that your value of X is going to come back down. It's inflated at the moment by people trying to hoard coalescents anticipating the price going up.
The ONLY source for unbound wards is now the Zen market. Wards will NEVER go below the Zen market equivalent. They will move with the Zen/AD exchange rate only.
Lesser Enchants will also never be priced much below a Coal. Ward even if they are "free" to those that get them BoA, because the sellers will have no incentive to significantly undercut the Coal. Ward price.
What I'm pointing out is that your value of X is going to come back down. It's inflated at the moment by people trying to hoard coalescents anticipating the price going up. However, when all of the lock box openers start flooding the market with lesser enchantments of every variety those people who bought up all of the coalescents won't be able to sell them for the huge profit like they were hoping. Think about it. How is someone going to sell coalescents for 500k or more when lesser vorpals and lesser soulforges are sitting unsold in the AH for 350k with a whole bunch more being added to the market every day from the people who formerly sold coalescents but are now selling lesser enchantments?
The market price is driven by the supply of coalescents and the demand for lesser enchantments. The supply is staying the same. There won't be any less coalescents acquired by people. The demand is also not going to change (it has temporarily because of speculation). But long term the price will stabilize.
While it is true that the demand will be the same, or a bit less of coal wards.
Yet, why would the flood of the lessers make them worth less? They'll just simply get into a price, like a few k more or less than the actual coal ward price. And it's going to change with the ZAX ratio. Nothing else. (Exceptions could be made with a few hundred, or 1-2k when someone gets a coupon and thinks he should use it, and he wants to get rid of that coal ward really fast.)
Theoretically the mass lesser craft would actually make them worth less, because there's being too much made at a certain point, but that's half of the story, while you actually need 2 lessers for a normal.. and so on. So newer players who hasn't gotten their perfects will eventually buy the lessers and so on. I might be totally wrong, I know HAMSTER about economics. :P
But the coalward prices are going to be around 500k-ish until the ZAX ratio will go down, inb4 mod4.
And the enchantments are going to be around the same price, as if not more since "there are the shard prices."
And I think a lot people will actually buy the lessers only, to craft their normal/greater/perfects since it's a bit faster to get progression with it. Like I mean, you don't have to get 10 million AD at once, but portions of it.
Oh, don't forget something, lockboxes are their best income of $$ so we might see sooner or later a new lockbox including a pack/cache with a rare chance to drop cwards.
they already have that. and have had it for quite some time. most of my coal wards have come directly from lockboxes. i save my tradebars for things for me.
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micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
The ONLY source for unbound wards is now the Zen market. Wards will NEVER go below the Zen market equivalent. They will move with the Zen/AD exchange rate only.
Lesser Enchants will also never be priced much below a Coal. Ward even if they are "free" to those that get them BoA, because the sellers will have no incentive to significantly undercut the Coal. Ward price.
Never say Never
But seriously, the zen price is the upper limit, means they can never sell lessers at a significantly higher price then c-ward + RP + shard costs , but it is not a lower limit, the undercutting will begin.
The same way blue marks of potency are high limited to 25k but go down to 12k.
The main problem is that it will take very long time to stabilize because of many avenues to sell 'bars', ion stones of might, archons (or pheora - don't remember now) And for each popular shard there are 4 Ranks to choose to sell from (+3 ranks for plague).
Their main incentive is to sell, 'bars' wont open more boxes by them selfs and must be turned into keys, no other way except the above. So sell they must.
But that wont happen soon, the high AD ZEN ratio will keep the prices high for a long long time.
ZAX ratio will not go down, too many people try to buy zen as opposed to the amount of people selling it. As with many other mmos, the game economy is sinked with lottery boxes.
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khimera906Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 898Arc User
edited May 2014
I'm sorry to tell you this but 500AD per Zen is not as bad as it can get. You assume that there will always be Zen posted for sale, but it won't be.
If the game gets to the point where player progression is entirely dependent on the Zen Market -example: Coalescent Wards are out of the reach of free players, as it is now - there will never be a reason for Zen prices to go down. Actually, there will be no more Zen to buy with AD. The players that spend cash for Zen will just buy Keys and Coalescent Wards and whatever else, and they will sell those oh the AH for as much AD as they want. Free players with enough AD will still pay no matter how high the prices will be, and in turn the prices will get higher and higher. This will alienate the majority of the player base and will drive away many of the potential new players.
It should be impossible to buy power directly with Zen. Coalescent and Preservation Wards should have never been put in the Zen Market to begin with, and there should still be a REALISTIC way of getting Coalescent Wards in game.
I hate these gloom and doom posts, but I really hate to see Neverwinter go down this path.
I hate dancing with Lady Luck. She always steps on my toes.
Which would be worrying (if there is no zen for sale) since some items cannot be resold - Respec tokens, bank slots, character slots, account-shared mounts, etc.
To those who say the Coal price will ''settle down'' to what was considered a normal price are being delusional.
Why?
Coal Wards could be got for 120 - 150k in February. Then the effects of the invocation nerf took effect. In lieu of the choke on supply the Coal Ward price surged to a new plateau of 270 - 280k AD, and it sat there for about a month up until this past Monday.
Now Cryptic has put another choke on supply with the Tradebar tweak. This will only replicate the impact the invocation nerf had, further increasing the price of Coal Wards.
In light of this latest tweak Coal Wards will never go back to the 270 - 280k range simply because the supply has been choked still further. The fact that Mod 4 is only 2 - 3 months away means the Zen-AD exchange will hardly settle, further reinforcing the current exorbitant prices of Coal Wards.
If the invocation nerf ultimately drove prices up by 80% what in your right minds makes you think the Tradebar tweak will have any less of an impact? Even if it is a third or fourth of that impact, it still pushes the price up significantly. Supply has been cut, prices will go up. Fact.
PSA: You don't need to grind Spinward Rise for your Elemental artifact main hand if you have some AD lying around. You can craft it via the Tyranny of Dragon's campaign screen.
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khimera906Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 898Arc User
edited May 2014
Prices have gone up. First day after the patch, C-Wards prices were at 400k+
I hate dancing with Lady Luck. She always steps on my toes.
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supermrblobMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 19Arc User
To those who say the Coal price will ''settle down'' to what was considered a normal price are being delusional.
Why?
Coal Wards could be got for 120 - 150k in February. Then the effects of the invocation nerf took effect. In lieu of the choke on supply the Coal Ward price surged to a new plateau of 270 - 280k AD, and it sat there for about a month up until this past Monday.
Now Cryptic has put another choke on supply with the Tradebar tweak. This will only replicate the impact the invocation nerf had, further increasing the price of Coal Wards.
In light of this latest tweak Coal Wards will never go back to the 270 - 280k range simply because the supply has been choked still further. The fact that Mod 4 is only 2 - 3 months away means the Zen-AD exchange will hardly settle, further reinforcing the current exorbitant prices of Coal Wards.
If the invocation nerf ultimately drove prices up by 80% what in your right minds makes you think the Tradebar tweak will have any less of an impact? Even if it is a third or fourth of that impact, it still pushes the price up significantly. Supply has been cut, prices will go up. Fact.
Well the invocation nerf reduced the amount of coal wards in the system. With this change. People still have the option to sell unbound enchants, so while the coals will obviously eventually match and probably exceed the zen store price, the enchants could remain the same as they were since the supply of coals could remain the same. However that implies that key users won't sell other stuff they can directly sell and there are many enchants to sell so that spreads out the supply when people were probably using them for the several same enchants so I personally think they'll stay at a high price. There will also be some ad injected to the system that zen buys will wanna trade for form the mysterious egg event coming up so that might help somewhat. However with mod 4 announced for a few months I don't see it going down to the 300s, the space between mod 2 and 3 was a lot longer so people eventually got bored.
I have no idea what will happen though. I invested in some coal wards though I did see some for 320k that I shouldve got and it was still a reasonable investment, though the 10% ah fee cuts into that. However people are clearly unhappy so they could revert the changes or reduce the zen store price which is a real possibility. They could also ignore it though (or take a while to make a decision) and force us to use the zen store price to buy them.
PWE doesn't understand why people don't pay 10 euro for a coal ward and instead of reducing the zen price they keep trying to push us, if it wasn't appealing to me before it surely won't be now when it's shoved down my throat.
And like previous attempts this won't work either, i think the current prices are just a temporary hype, people don't NEED coal wards, these are just a means to an end, they NEED weapon and armor enchantments which are BoE. People won't buy coal wards now, they will buy the enchantments directly.
To those who say the Coal price will ''settle down'' to what was considered a normal price are being delusional.
Read your own post before calling people delusional, if you don't get it, read it again.
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tripsofthrymrMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,624Community Moderator
i think the current prices are just a temporary hype, people don't NEED coal wards, these are just a means to an end, they NEED weapon and armor enchantments which are BoE. People won't buy coal wards now, they will buy the enchantments directly.
When the invocation nerf went in, coal. ward prices went up (less supply) AND lesser enchants went up to match. They were not cheaper than the new price for wards. The market dynamics are exactly the same with this change (further reduction of unbound supply, same ability to sell lessers). There is no reason to expect a different outcome.
When the invocation nerf went in, coal. ward prices went up (less supply) AND lesser enchants went up to match. They were not cheaper than the new price for wards. The market dynamics are exactly the same with this change (further reduction of unbound supply, same ability to sell lessers). There is no reason to expect a different outcome.
Because that was an actual nerf to the supply, fewer coal dropped. Now you can get the same coal wards for your tarmalune, just that you can't sell the coal directly, you'll probably make an enchantment and sell that, the amount of enchants on the market will increase and that's what people want, that will be the competitive market. Coal ward is just a middle man that might aswell disappear altogether from the AH.
It will probably inconvenience a bit people who want to upgrade their enchantments.
now if you want to acquire a coal ward you need keys. and to not spend to much sell what comes along with said trade bars and you are not spending that much imo
I may be alone in this but I don't think that long term making Coalescent Wards from the Tarmalune bar merchant account bound will change much. Here's why:
Enchantments still won't be bound.
More details:
Right now, if you want a lesser vorpal enchantment what you do is get four shards, buy a Coalescent ward of the AH, then craft your own enchantment.
Yes, but how exactly do you convert those lesser, regular and greater enchantments to perfect? You STILL need coalescent wards. All you can do is save 8 wards off the normal cost of 15 to make a perfect. Since there won't be any unbound source of coalescent wards other than the Zen shop there most definitely will be a shortage. I don't see the prices going down once the current stock is gone.
Coalescent and Preservation Wards should have never been put in the Zen Market to begin with, and there should still be a REALISTIC way of getting Coalescent Wards in game.
Exactly. The problem Cryptic has is they are not targeting the right things to sell to make money. Coals and preservation wards, or anything that limits player gear progression, should not be sold. Instead they can sell things that allow players to customize and "live" in the game. For example: guild houses and fashion clothing. They could also do like many mmos and sell module access. The purple mounts should have never been sold in the Zen market and left to players opening lockboxes to get them. Microtransactions are key as people miss that they are dumping $30 in lockboxes for a chance to get a purple mount. Why? Because they are $1 hits each instead of $20+ one time purchase for all toons.
Yes, but how exactly do you convert those lesser, regular and greater enchantments to perfect? You STILL need coalescent wards. All you can do is save 8 wards off the normal cost of 15 to make a perfect. Since there won't be any unbound source of coalescent wards other than the Zen shop there most definitely will be a shortage. I don't see the prices going down once the current stock is gone.
Quite late to check now but i guess you agree there is a significant difference between the market of lesser enchantments and the one for greater and perfect. Also those people who upgrade their enchantments are usually the source of those tarmalune bought wards, show me someone with a perfect enchantment that didn't open at least 100 lockboxes.
Those coal wards were sold by people, they didn't warp in from another dimension, those people can still get the coal wards to upgrade their enchantments.
The problem Cryptic has is they are not targeting the right things to sell to make money. Coals and preservation wards, or anything that limits player gear progression, should not be sold. Instead they can sell things that allow players to customize and "live" in the game.
Most companies totally missed the point of the F2P and PWE, like many others, apply the same recipe of creating inconveniences or putting artificial roadblocks in their games and then offer to remove set inconveniences or roadblocks if you give them money. F2P monetization 101.
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zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
edited May 2014
Moderator Notice: . . . Please remember folks, this is a discussion forum... not an argument forum. I cleaned up the thread just a small bit but wanted to give a fore-warning to keep the thread as a constructive discussion. I didn't remove every small thing, just remember however; Do leave any insulting words, phrases, or purveyance out of your posts - there is no need for such usage of the English language in a discussion. Thanks!
...show me someone with a perfect enchantment that didn't open at least 100 lockboxes.
I don't normally post but I just want to chime in. I have opened boxes but no where near 100 and I have a perfect. Working on my second perfect vorp right now and it's been a pain as I still need 3 more. I'm glad in a way that I only needed 3 but can't imagine if I was just starting from scratch. I started late on my first one and wished I did it before the refinement system and with this, I feel bad for those who are just starting. This will make it 4x if not 5x harder than before.
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khimera906Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 898Arc User
edited June 2014
I was looking at that Bear Mount thinking I was gonna buy it, just so that my GF Dwarf will look the way I want. 20£ is not such a big deal for an account wide mount. I will spend the money anyway on some other HAMSTER, might as well give a little support to a game I enjoy.
I would spend my money on mounts, fashion, companions. You know, just to customize my characters. I will spend my money on optional stuff. Optional being the key word here. I will never, ever spend my money in this or any other MMO because I'm forced to. I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one that thinks like this.
Character progression should be free, independent from the Cash Shop. Power should be achieved not bought directly with cash.
I hate dancing with Lady Luck. She always steps on my toes.
I was looking at that Bear Mount thinking I was gonna buy it, just so that my GF Dwarf will look the way I want. 20£ is not such a big deal for an account wide mount. I will spend the money anyway on some other HAMSTER, might as well give a little support to a game I enjoy.
I would spend my money on mounts, fashion, companions. You know, just to customize my characters. I will spend my money on optional stuff. Optional being the key word here. I will never, ever spend my money in this or any other MMO because I'm forced to. I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one that thinks like this.
Character progression should be free, independent from the Cash Shop. Power should be achieved not bought directly with cash.
On the one hand the ZAX can be managed by 50mil AD. On the other Coal Wards can make the price of a perfect 11mil.
Let's shake hands as anyone selling 5 perfect enchants can now own the ZAX. (Or at least 100,000 Zen or $1000: 25,000 Zen profit if the RPoints were free)
....and the internet was won. People throughout the ages will remark on the most uber leet of zen hoarder.
Comments
No he missed it by a mile - if C.wards are selling at price X in the AH and you need a C.ward to make an enchantment then why would people sell the enchantment for less than X even if the C.ward cost them nothing? The price of enchantments will fluctuate with the price of C.wards because people know that the current price of C.wards is what the market will bear.
You are not playing a single-player game, you are playing a MMO. The mount is about 2 months of subscription fees for a subscription MMO.
Sci-fi author: The Gods We Make, The Gods We Seek, and Ji-min
+1, that is how markets work.
Sci-fi author: The Gods We Make, The Gods We Seek, and Ji-min
In general, I agree - but if you have more time than money, and are patient, it could cost you much much less, (or no money at all). This, IMO, is figured into the price, and why they tend to be high. If you could not earn Zen in game, then my bet is prices would be a lot lower.
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
What I'm pointing out is that your value of X is going to come back down. It's inflated at the moment by people trying to hoard coalescents anticipating the price going up. However, when all of the lock box openers start flooding the market with lesser enchantments of every variety those people who bought up all of the coalescents won't be able to sell them for the huge profit like they were hoping. Think about it. How is someone going to sell coalescents for 500k or more when lesser vorpals and lesser soulforges are sitting unsold in the AH for 350k with a whole bunch more being added to the market every day from the people who formerly sold coalescents but are now selling lesser enchantments?
The market price is driven by the supply of coalescents and the demand for lesser enchantments. The supply is staying the same. There won't be any less coalescents acquired by people. The demand is also not going to change (it has temporarily because of speculation). But long term the price will stabilize.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't that cause other issues? Since people opening lockboxes will probably stick to lessers for a quick return and Coalescent Wards will (hopefully) stay below the zen market value, wouldn't there be a severe lack of Coalescent Wards being sold in the AH or even simply being bought with zen for higher level enchants?
And then Cryptic will eventually seize that loophole in a future patch, causing enchantments to bind at a certain level (let's say they exempt lesser status as unbound, but perhaps make greater or perfect enchants to be bound)... further strengthening their pressure chokehold on the playerbase to purchase coalwards directly with tarmalune bars or ZEN.
Watch it happen.
The ONLY source for unbound wards is now the Zen market. Wards will NEVER go below the Zen market equivalent. They will move with the Zen/AD exchange rate only.
Lesser Enchants will also never be priced much below a Coal. Ward even if they are "free" to those that get them BoA, because the sellers will have no incentive to significantly undercut the Coal. Ward price.
Sci-fi author: The Gods We Make, The Gods We Seek, and Ji-min
While it is true that the demand will be the same, or a bit less of coal wards.
Yet, why would the flood of the lessers make them worth less? They'll just simply get into a price, like a few k more or less than the actual coal ward price. And it's going to change with the ZAX ratio. Nothing else. (Exceptions could be made with a few hundred, or 1-2k when someone gets a coupon and thinks he should use it, and he wants to get rid of that coal ward really fast.)
Theoretically the mass lesser craft would actually make them worth less, because there's being too much made at a certain point, but that's half of the story, while you actually need 2 lessers for a normal.. and so on. So newer players who hasn't gotten their perfects will eventually buy the lessers and so on. I might be totally wrong, I know HAMSTER about economics. :P
But the coalward prices are going to be around 500k-ish until the ZAX ratio will go down, inb4 mod4.
And the enchantments are going to be around the same price, as if not more since "there are the shard prices."
And I think a lot people will actually buy the lessers only, to craft their normal/greater/perfects since it's a bit faster to get progression with it. Like I mean, you don't have to get 10 million AD at once, but portions of it.
they already have that. and have had it for quite some time. most of my coal wards have come directly from lockboxes. i save my tradebars for things for me.
Never say Never
But seriously, the zen price is the upper limit, means they can never sell lessers at a significantly higher price then c-ward + RP + shard costs , but it is not a lower limit, the undercutting will begin.
The same way blue marks of potency are high limited to 25k but go down to 12k.
The main problem is that it will take very long time to stabilize because of many avenues to sell 'bars', ion stones of might, archons (or pheora - don't remember now) And for each popular shard there are 4 Ranks to choose to sell from (+3 ranks for plague).
Their main incentive is to sell, 'bars' wont open more boxes by them selfs and must be turned into keys, no other way except the above. So sell they must.
But that wont happen soon, the high AD ZEN ratio will keep the prices high for a long long time.
If the game gets to the point where player progression is entirely dependent on the Zen Market -example: Coalescent Wards are out of the reach of free players, as it is now - there will never be a reason for Zen prices to go down. Actually, there will be no more Zen to buy with AD. The players that spend cash for Zen will just buy Keys and Coalescent Wards and whatever else, and they will sell those oh the AH for as much AD as they want. Free players with enough AD will still pay no matter how high the prices will be, and in turn the prices will get higher and higher. This will alienate the majority of the player base and will drive away many of the potential new players.
It should be impossible to buy power directly with Zen. Coalescent and Preservation Wards should have never been put in the Zen Market to begin with, and there should still be a REALISTIC way of getting Coalescent Wards in game.
I hate these gloom and doom posts, but I really hate to see Neverwinter go down this path.
Why?
Coal Wards could be got for 120 - 150k in February. Then the effects of the invocation nerf took effect. In lieu of the choke on supply the Coal Ward price surged to a new plateau of 270 - 280k AD, and it sat there for about a month up until this past Monday.
Now Cryptic has put another choke on supply with the Tradebar tweak. This will only replicate the impact the invocation nerf had, further increasing the price of Coal Wards.
In light of this latest tweak Coal Wards will never go back to the 270 - 280k range simply because the supply has been choked still further. The fact that Mod 4 is only 2 - 3 months away means the Zen-AD exchange will hardly settle, further reinforcing the current exorbitant prices of Coal Wards.
If the invocation nerf ultimately drove prices up by 80% what in your right minds makes you think the Tradebar tweak will have any less of an impact? Even if it is a third or fourth of that impact, it still pushes the price up significantly. Supply has been cut, prices will go up. Fact.
They're hiding, I see. :P
Well the invocation nerf reduced the amount of coal wards in the system. With this change. People still have the option to sell unbound enchants, so while the coals will obviously eventually match and probably exceed the zen store price, the enchants could remain the same as they were since the supply of coals could remain the same. However that implies that key users won't sell other stuff they can directly sell and there are many enchants to sell so that spreads out the supply when people were probably using them for the several same enchants so I personally think they'll stay at a high price. There will also be some ad injected to the system that zen buys will wanna trade for form the mysterious egg event coming up so that might help somewhat. However with mod 4 announced for a few months I don't see it going down to the 300s, the space between mod 2 and 3 was a lot longer so people eventually got bored.
I have no idea what will happen though. I invested in some coal wards though I did see some for 320k that I shouldve got and it was still a reasonable investment, though the 10% ah fee cuts into that. However people are clearly unhappy so they could revert the changes or reduce the zen store price which is a real possibility. They could also ignore it though (or take a while to make a decision) and force us to use the zen store price to buy them.
And like previous attempts this won't work either, i think the current prices are just a temporary hype, people don't NEED coal wards, these are just a means to an end, they NEED weapon and armor enchantments which are BoE. People won't buy coal wards now, they will buy the enchantments directly.
Read your own post before calling people delusional, if you don't get it, read it again.
When the invocation nerf went in, coal. ward prices went up (less supply) AND lesser enchants went up to match. They were not cheaper than the new price for wards. The market dynamics are exactly the same with this change (further reduction of unbound supply, same ability to sell lessers). There is no reason to expect a different outcome.
Sci-fi author: The Gods We Make, The Gods We Seek, and Ji-min
Because that was an actual nerf to the supply, fewer coal dropped. Now you can get the same coal wards for your tarmalune, just that you can't sell the coal directly, you'll probably make an enchantment and sell that, the amount of enchants on the market will increase and that's what people want, that will be the competitive market. Coal ward is just a middle man that might aswell disappear altogether from the AH.
It will probably inconvenience a bit people who want to upgrade their enchantments.
Yes, but how exactly do you convert those lesser, regular and greater enchantments to perfect? You STILL need coalescent wards. All you can do is save 8 wards off the normal cost of 15 to make a perfect. Since there won't be any unbound source of coalescent wards other than the Zen shop there most definitely will be a shortage. I don't see the prices going down once the current stock is gone.
Exactly. The problem Cryptic has is they are not targeting the right things to sell to make money. Coals and preservation wards, or anything that limits player gear progression, should not be sold. Instead they can sell things that allow players to customize and "live" in the game. For example: guild houses and fashion clothing. They could also do like many mmos and sell module access. The purple mounts should have never been sold in the Zen market and left to players opening lockboxes to get them. Microtransactions are key as people miss that they are dumping $30 in lockboxes for a chance to get a purple mount. Why? Because they are $1 hits each instead of $20+ one time purchase for all toons.
Quite late to check now but i guess you agree there is a significant difference between the market of lesser enchantments and the one for greater and perfect. Also those people who upgrade their enchantments are usually the source of those tarmalune bought wards, show me someone with a perfect enchantment that didn't open at least 100 lockboxes.
Those coal wards were sold by people, they didn't warp in from another dimension, those people can still get the coal wards to upgrade their enchantments.
Most companies totally missed the point of the F2P and PWE, like many others, apply the same recipe of creating inconveniences or putting artificial roadblocks in their games and then offer to remove set inconveniences or roadblocks if you give them money. F2P monetization 101.
. . . Please remember folks, this is a discussion forum... not an argument forum. I cleaned up the thread just a small bit but wanted to give a fore-warning to keep the thread as a constructive discussion. I didn't remove every small thing, just remember however; Do leave any insulting words, phrases, or purveyance out of your posts - there is no need for such usage of the English language in a discussion. Thanks!
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I don't normally post but I just want to chime in. I have opened boxes but no where near 100 and I have a perfect. Working on my second perfect vorp right now and it's been a pain as I still need 3 more. I'm glad in a way that I only needed 3 but can't imagine if I was just starting from scratch. I started late on my first one and wished I did it before the refinement system and with this, I feel bad for those who are just starting. This will make it 4x if not 5x harder than before.
I would spend my money on mounts, fashion, companions. You know, just to customize my characters. I will spend my money on optional stuff. Optional being the key word here. I will never, ever spend my money in this or any other MMO because I'm forced to. I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one that thinks like this.
Character progression should be free, independent from the Cash Shop. Power should be achieved not bought directly with cash.
Agreed!
Power should be achieved!!
NOT bought with cash!!!!!
:mad:
I refuse to become a wallet warrior!!
Let's shake hands as anyone selling 5 perfect enchants can now own the ZAX. (Or at least 100,000 Zen or $1000: 25,000 Zen profit if the RPoints were free)
....and the internet was won. People throughout the ages will remark on the most uber leet of zen hoarder.