Even with the +60% Crit Severity, i wouldn't come over 30% DG damage alone. Second my other damage would increase to, because of the crit damage itself. So that's maybe 20-25% at max. FAR FAR away from the stated 45%+.
Yes but deep gash is always a crit. So it will increase from more crit severity much much faster than your regular damage will.
And this would be a problem in PvP why? Unless I'm mistaken a 90k IBS crit would kill literally anything in PvP in one hit. And that's not a problem for you? Or the fact that IBS even does a 90k crit in PvE? Show me a parse from your average PvP match and then we'll talk about that.
And lets not even talk about the 50% base critical severity that a, what, 3 million AD gem is giving.
I also notice that Deep Gash non-flank is something like 9% of damage. And given the amount of encounters used in that parse the only consistant damage dealing ability in the entire parse would be Deep Gash. Use the same three encounters the whole instance and I imagine that parse would look very, very differently.
I also notice that you completely ignore the parse I just posted, and you continually use PvE parses in the most ideal situations possible to justify your QQ. Unless your GWF just decided to not attack anything for the six seconds his 'OP' bleed was ticking, thus losing every buff/debuff he had on him. Then he gets to spam WMS for another 5 or 6 seconds to ramp back up. Lets also not forget that those stacks, and presumably the debuffs, would expire before the 6th tick thusly lowering the overall damage from the bleed and slowing the GWF's roll by dropping every buff and debuff they applied.
This stuff doesn't happen in a vacuum you know, it's not like GWF can go from zero to sixty in a nanosecond here. There's prep-work that leads up to those numbers, it doesn't just happen.
This is not uncommon for PVE is the problem. Let's take your example then, I'm assuming from the *****ing you don't have a perfect vorpal, but let's say you hit for 15326 and did 1890 deep gash damage for 6 ticks, that's 11340 deep gash damage with subpar gear, granting you 26,666 damage off a 15k damage encounter.
This is not uncommon for PVE is the problem. Let's take your example then, I'm assuming from the *****ing you don't have a perfect vorpal, but let's say you hit for 15326 and did 1890 deep gash damage for 6 ticks, that's 11340 deep gash damage with subpar gear, granting you 26,666 damage off a 15k damage encounter.
Also for those that want to nerf CWs, note that CWs stack a lot of buffs and debuffs to get the damage they do. Literally by the time I use shard I have 100% more damage from it from my buffs/debuffs alone.
I'll just let you argue with yourself now. You see, it is literally the exact same situation for a GWF. My point is that my 15k IBS was the result of six seconds of wind up time AND it had to crit.
You don't need to assume anything, I do run with Vorpal. (Of course, as everyone else does.) I simply removed it from my weapon to show you what the other end of the spectrum looks like.
If you try and tell me that every GWF is running around in PvP with their stacks of buff/debuff at full I'm going to laugh at you.
The longer the fight goes, the stronger a GWF is. If you just come across one they're not going to drop a 20k IBS on your head out of nowhere.
EDIT: Just for reference...
[16:57] [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Indomitable Battle Strike deals 9146 (8711) Physical to Target Dummy.
[16:57] [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Deep Gash deals 1241 (1182) Physical to Target Dummy.
[16:57] [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Deep Gash deals 1241 (1182) Physical to Target Dummy.
[16:57] [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Deep Gash deals 1241 (1182) Physical to Target Dummy.
[16:57] [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Deep Gash deals 1241 (1182) Physical to Target Dummy.
[16:57] [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Deep Gash deals 1241 (1182) Physical to Target Dummy.
[16:57] [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Deep Gash deals 1241 (1182) Physical to Target Dummy.
There we go, this is a flat 'I hit you with an IBS crit' against a naked Target, without Vorpal.
10k crit with 7.5k bleed. Now, just slap on a vorpal and increase each one of those numbers by another 50%.
MoF/Thaum CWSS/Thaum CWIV/Protector GFSW/Combat HRSM/Destroyer GWFWK/Executioner TRDO/Faithful DC
I'll just let you argue with yourself now. You see, it is literally the exact same situation for a GWF. My point is that my 15k IBS was the result of six seconds of wind up time AND it had to crit.
You don't need to assume anything, I do run with Vorpal. (Of course, as everyone else does.) I simply removed it from my weapon to show you what the other end of the spectrum looks like.
If you try and tell me that every GWF is running around in PvP with their stacks of buff/debuff at full I'm going to laugh at you.
The longer the fight goes, the stronger a GWF is. If you just come across one they're not going to drop a 20k IBS on your head out of nowhere.
EDIT: Just for reference...
[16:57] [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Indomitable Battle Strike deals 9146 (8711) Physical to Target Dummy.
[16:57] [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Deep Gash deals 1241 (1182) Physical to Target Dummy.
[16:57] [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Deep Gash deals 1241 (1182) Physical to Target Dummy.
[16:57] [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Deep Gash deals 1241 (1182) Physical to Target Dummy.
[16:57] [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Deep Gash deals 1241 (1182) Physical to Target Dummy.
[16:57] [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Deep Gash deals 1241 (1182) Physical to Target Dummy.
[16:57] [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Deep Gash deals 1241 (1182) Physical to Target Dummy.
So you truly believe that a single feat in the first tier should do 80% of the damage of an encounter that procced it in your scenario? Sidenote: I have bleeds a lot bigger than that even in PVP on a less than ideal damage toon with over 43.5k life and nearly 60% DR.
So you truly believe that a single feat in the first tier should do 80% of the damage of an encounter that procced it in your scenario? Sidenote: I have bleeds a lot bigger than that even in PVP on a less than ideal damage toon...
Go ahead, parse a PvP match and post the ACT score right here. Be my guest, prove your point.
With Deep Gash being more useful now, it probably should be moved higher into the Destroyer tree. That I can definately agree with you on, but pretending like the cap stone for Destroyer line isn't as good would be an outright lie given that it completely changes the nature of the class wouldn't you say?
Oh, and yes I feel that giving the GWF 80% more damage is just fine and dandy given that they do crappy damage otherwise. Seriously, take Deep Gash out of your GWF build and parse yourself compared to literally any other DPS class. Go ahead. Prove your point on this one.
I'd rather play my HR regardless, given that Aimed Shot does more damage than IBS as an At-Will with or without the bleed. Hur hur hur.
[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Aimed Shot deals 16826 Physical to Target Dummy.
No buffs. No debuffs. Just a flat shot every three seconds.
So you see, you're just being silly here. Anyone who has played multiple classes, including yourself, should f'ing know better.
MoF/Thaum CWSS/Thaum CWIV/Protector GFSW/Combat HRSM/Destroyer GWFWK/Executioner TRDO/Faithful DC
So you truly believe that a single feat in the first tier should do 80% of the damage of an encounter that procced it in your scenario? Sidenote: I have bleeds a lot bigger than that even in PVP on a less than ideal damage toon with over 43.5k life and nearly 60% DR.
Sometimes I miss the point: the problem is: gwf is strong in pvp, or gwf compete with cw in pve?
I understand the first point, in other're waisting time here.
anyway, the ibs very unlikely to reach the 80% because of the following bleed cancels the previous , being higher or lower. why, despite having allegedly increased our critics at 80%, do not do 500% damage from another class.
moreover see pvp: if I reach with the critical His reaction is to run away, or leave the bleed accumulate (up why stay to be "saved" by a second blow, it is foolish). then again, it was not the best choice for a buff, and still do not know if it was a "mistake" or a desperate attempt to rescue players (managed). but whatever.
Say by the way, we have two strong classes today. others are so strong as gwf / cw? if yes, ok, if not, the effort should be to improve them and not by all in the same hole (or leave only one out.)
Hell my Threatening Rush hit as high as 3,385
Indomitable Strength (remember it's 2 hits) 6,803
and deep gash as high as 1,586 / tick
There wasn't even a CW on my team for debuffs, it was 2x tr, hr, and gf. Think about how much life the average PVP player has, probably 20-25k, and look at these numbers. You guys have mentioned buffs for some of these skills in this thread, how imbalanced do you think that will make pvp? I was 18-0 and it would have been more, but the other team quit after just a few hundred points. Plus again I have almost 60% DR without using unstoppable and 43.5k life with a ton of regen and life steal as well. The class is OP in PVP. I literally was 1v5 at mid at the start because my pug team went to our home point. I just popped emblem and unstoppable and killed 2 people before my team showed up...
Hell my Threatening Rush hit as high as 3,385
Indomitable Strength (remember it's 2 hits) 6,803
and deep gash as high as 1,586 / tick
There wasn't even a CW on my team for debuffs, it was 2x tr, hr, and gf. Think about how much life the average PVP player has, probably 20-25k, and look at these numbers. You guys have mentioned buffs for some of these skills in this thread, how imbalanced do you think that will make pvp? I was 18-0 and it would have been more, but the other team quit after just a few hundred points. The class is OP in PVP.
Where's the parse though? You seemed so eager to put up a parse for PvE, yet for some reason are reluctant to post a PvP parse to prove the OP nature of the Deep Gash feat. You're trying to say it's OP in both PvE and PvP. You've at least made a case for PvE, but you seem to continually resort to anecdote when it comes to PvP. I wonder why that might be...
Answer: I know why you won't. It's because Deep Gash doesn't make up a lot of PvP damage. It's all about burst damage, which Deep Gash definately is not. As a matter of fact, your 'highest' bleed ticks are roughly 1/20th of the 'average' PvP'ers health pool by your own admission.
So please, shove off or post your parse.
MoF/Thaum CWSS/Thaum CWIV/Protector GFSW/Combat HRSM/Destroyer GWFWK/Executioner TRDO/Faithful DC
Though I do not believe GWFs are "OP" versus premade teams/skilled players. I can see where it is frustrating to face them in a PUG. However it has been stated numerous times, in many guides/posts in these forums how to face GWFs in PvP and the strategies to make oneself effective against them. The information is out there, people (eg. random PUGer) need to do their research.
That being said... A number of issues are being addressed by the Devs with Tenacity/Matchmaking/X other random awesome things they are instituting in the coming weeks/month or so. :cool:
Though I do not believe GWFs are "OP" versus premade teams/skilled players. I can see where it is frustrating to face them in a PUG. However it has been stated numerous times, in many guides/posts in these forums how to face GWFs in PvP and the strategies to make oneself effective against them. The information is out there, people (eg. random PUGer) need to do their research.
That being said... A number of issues are being addressed by the Devs with Tenacity/Matchmaking/X other random awesome things they are instituting in the coming weeks/month or so. :cool:
That's pretty much it. Without PvP brackets related to GS it's going to be a bloodbath when an 'average' PvPer meets a high GS anything. Especially with enchants being what they are and the difficulty of obtaining the higher tier enchants.
MoF/Thaum CWSS/Thaum CWIV/Protector GFSW/Combat HRSM/Destroyer GWFWK/Executioner TRDO/Faithful DC
That being said... A number of issues are being addressed by the Devs with Tenacity/Matchmaking/X other random awesome things they are instituting in the coming weeks/month or so. :cool:
Just the fact that new PvP gear** reduces Crit chance seems enough to render Perfect Vorpals useless in PvP. At least for classes that don't climb over 40% Crit chance.
Just the fact that new PvP gear** reduces Crit chance seems enough to render Perfect Vorpals useless in PvP. At least for classes that don't climb over 40% Crit chance.
**As long as it stays as it is now.
Its actually Crit "DMG" Reduction, not Crit Chance
It's going to take a while to down some people. Will feel as a dungeon rather than PvP. Reading a bit further, I see that they refer to Critical Strike Reduction and Critical Resistance as the same thing. So, I guess Tenacity will come on top of the 10% innate resistance, which is of course...bad for Vorpal users
Maybe I'll have a reason to slot my P. Terror into new epic Sword then... Switch between P. Vorpal and Terror (or some other enchantment of course!) for PvP. Adjustments are made!
Comments
Yes but deep gash is always a crit. So it will increase from more crit severity much much faster than your regular damage will.
This is not uncommon for PVE is the problem. Let's take your example then, I'm assuming from the *****ing you don't have a perfect vorpal, but let's say you hit for 15326 and did 1890 deep gash damage for 6 ticks, that's 11340 deep gash damage with subpar gear, granting you 26,666 damage off a 15k damage encounter.
I'll just let you argue with yourself now. You see, it is literally the exact same situation for a GWF. My point is that my 15k IBS was the result of six seconds of wind up time AND it had to crit.
You don't need to assume anything, I do run with Vorpal. (Of course, as everyone else does.) I simply removed it from my weapon to show you what the other end of the spectrum looks like.
If you try and tell me that every GWF is running around in PvP with their stacks of buff/debuff at full I'm going to laugh at you.
The longer the fight goes, the stronger a GWF is. If you just come across one they're not going to drop a 20k IBS on your head out of nowhere.
EDIT: Just for reference...
[16:57] [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Indomitable Battle Strike deals 9146 (8711) Physical to Target Dummy.
[16:57] [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Deep Gash deals 1241 (1182) Physical to Target Dummy.
[16:57] [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Deep Gash deals 1241 (1182) Physical to Target Dummy.
[16:57] [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Deep Gash deals 1241 (1182) Physical to Target Dummy.
[16:57] [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Deep Gash deals 1241 (1182) Physical to Target Dummy.
[16:57] [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Deep Gash deals 1241 (1182) Physical to Target Dummy.
[16:57] [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Deep Gash deals 1241 (1182) Physical to Target Dummy.
There we go, this is a flat 'I hit you with an IBS crit' against a naked Target, without Vorpal.
10k crit with 7.5k bleed. Now, just slap on a vorpal and increase each one of those numbers by another 50%.
So you truly believe that a single feat in the first tier should do 80% of the damage of an encounter that procced it in your scenario? Sidenote: I have bleeds a lot bigger than that even in PVP on a less than ideal damage toon with over 43.5k life and nearly 60% DR.
Go ahead, parse a PvP match and post the ACT score right here. Be my guest, prove your point.
With Deep Gash being more useful now, it probably should be moved higher into the Destroyer tree. That I can definately agree with you on, but pretending like the cap stone for Destroyer line isn't as good would be an outright lie given that it completely changes the nature of the class wouldn't you say?
Oh, and yes I feel that giving the GWF 80% more damage is just fine and dandy given that they do crappy damage otherwise. Seriously, take Deep Gash out of your GWF build and parse yourself compared to literally any other DPS class. Go ahead. Prove your point on this one.
I'd rather play my HR regardless, given that Aimed Shot does more damage than IBS as an At-Will with or without the bleed. Hur hur hur.
[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Aimed Shot deals 16826 Physical to Target Dummy.
No buffs. No debuffs. Just a flat shot every three seconds.
So you see, you're just being silly here. Anyone who has played multiple classes, including yourself, should f'ing know better.
Sometimes I miss the point: the problem is: gwf is strong in pvp, or gwf compete with cw in pve?
I understand the first point, in other're waisting time here.
anyway, the ibs very unlikely to reach the 80% because of the following bleed cancels the previous , being higher or lower. why, despite having allegedly increased our critics at 80%, do not do 500% damage from another class.
moreover see pvp: if I reach with the critical His reaction is to run away, or leave the bleed accumulate (up why stay to be "saved" by a second blow, it is foolish). then again, it was not the best choice for a buff, and still do not know if it was a "mistake" or a desperate attempt to rescue players (managed). but whatever.
IBS highest 18,528
FLS highest 13,560
Takedown highest 8,938
Hell my Threatening Rush hit as high as 3,385
Indomitable Strength (remember it's 2 hits) 6,803
and deep gash as high as 1,586 / tick
There wasn't even a CW on my team for debuffs, it was 2x tr, hr, and gf. Think about how much life the average PVP player has, probably 20-25k, and look at these numbers. You guys have mentioned buffs for some of these skills in this thread, how imbalanced do you think that will make pvp? I was 18-0 and it would have been more, but the other team quit after just a few hundred points. Plus again I have almost 60% DR without using unstoppable and 43.5k life with a ton of regen and life steal as well. The class is OP in PVP. I literally was 1v5 at mid at the start because my pug team went to our home point. I just popped emblem and unstoppable and killed 2 people before my team showed up...
Where's the parse though? You seemed so eager to put up a parse for PvE, yet for some reason are reluctant to post a PvP parse to prove the OP nature of the Deep Gash feat. You're trying to say it's OP in both PvE and PvP. You've at least made a case for PvE, but you seem to continually resort to anecdote when it comes to PvP. I wonder why that might be...
Answer: I know why you won't. It's because Deep Gash doesn't make up a lot of PvP damage. It's all about burst damage, which Deep Gash definately is not. As a matter of fact, your 'highest' bleed ticks are roughly 1/20th of the 'average' PvP'ers health pool by your own admission.
So please, shove off or post your parse.
That being said... A number of issues are being addressed by the Devs with Tenacity/Matchmaking/X other random awesome things they are instituting in the coming weeks/month or so. :cool:
That's pretty much it. Without PvP brackets related to GS it's going to be a bloodbath when an 'average' PvPer meets a high GS anything. Especially with enchants being what they are and the difficulty of obtaining the higher tier enchants.
Just the fact that new PvP gear** reduces Crit chance seems enough to render Perfect Vorpals useless in PvP. At least for classes that don't climb over 40% Crit chance.
**As long as it stays as it is now.
Its actually Crit "DMG" Reduction, not Crit Chance
Are you sure? Because in the character sheet it's mentioned as Critical Resistance. So it can go both ways.
Unless I am missing something in Patch notes.
Edit: Yep, you seem to be right. Critical Strike Damage as noted in the first Patch notes on the forum...at least the innate ability granted to players. I still can't make out what Tenacity refers to. URL="http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?582751-Cryptic-OFFICIAL-Tenacity-Feedback-Thread"]Tenacity[/URL
Either way its all Sad face
Maybe I'll have a reason to slot my P. Terror into new epic Sword then... Switch between P. Vorpal and Terror (or some other enchantment of course!) for PvP. Adjustments are made!