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Deep Gash
steamroler12
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
Ive Been hearing a lot of QQ from basically everyone about "Deep Gash"
So I decided to do some research on the original patch notes for Shadowmantle
Heres the Link : http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?516771-NW-10-20131018a-8-Shadowmantle-Preview-Patch-Notesv
and here's the copy of the Quote from Designers themselves :
So Deep Gash is not only Damage from a % of your Power, it is also Effected by your Strength, and other Damage bonuses (THE AMOUNT YOU CRIT FOR)
I dont see any problem with this, As it is a Boost for PvE GWF's that weve all been waiting for, Ever since I can remember, CW's have always out Damaged GWF's in the meters. I love the new Deep Gash.
I hope it stays the way it is. As the only way for a PvE GWF to keep up with a CW in damage would be if we had increased At-Will Damage to our Weapon Master Strike or Wicked Strike, or Base encounters themselves.
So ya the new Deep Gash was intended to be based off more then just % of Power. AS the Patch Notes say.
So I decided to do some research on the original patch notes for Shadowmantle
Heres the Link : http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?516771-NW-10-20131018a-8-Shadowmantle-Preview-Patch-Notesv
and here's the copy of the Quote from Designers themselves :
- Feat Deep Gash: This feat now benefits from your strength and other damage bonuses.
So Deep Gash is not only Damage from a % of your Power, it is also Effected by your Strength, and other Damage bonuses (THE AMOUNT YOU CRIT FOR)
I dont see any problem with this, As it is a Boost for PvE GWF's that weve all been waiting for, Ever since I can remember, CW's have always out Damaged GWF's in the meters. I love the new Deep Gash.
I hope it stays the way it is. As the only way for a PvE GWF to keep up with a CW in damage would be if we had increased At-Will Damage to our Weapon Master Strike or Wicked Strike, or Base encounters themselves.
So ya the new Deep Gash was intended to be based off more then just % of Power. AS the Patch Notes say.
Post edited by steamroler12 on
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I predict deep gash will be moved further along the destroyer tree, out of reach of a sent, rather than it be nerfed in the face of a waterfall of salty QQ's XD
1 - " gwf is defender , the problem is the dungeon ."
seems obvious, from the passage of beta 1 for the module that gwf lost a lot of damage and resistance ( pve ) . A destroyer that does damage can not is unstoppable , ie , is not " defender " ( gwf in nwo was NEVER defend ) . So even to be what " should be " we need a high damage . We do not have threat , we no have control , we do not have high range and not a good daily measly damage . Every argument against is spite or ignorance of the mechanics class.
Let's not forget : The Destroyer is a torrent of unfettered rage and anger and deals the crushing amount of damage on foe is Likely to Survive " .
This sounds like a description of a defender ?
2 - " Atwill up "
Devastate a Atwill is not the solution to the destroyer that our build is ideally based on encounter / daily ( greater bonus bleed ) . The only feat that beheld a Atwill - executioner style - became a builder ap . and see that this constructor ap depends if we kill our enemies ... realize the cycle ?
3 - pvp : pvp changes currently in a large containment critical damage is expected . And the damage gwf ( and himself bleed ) is based on critic. As people simply follow the speech of those who hate gwf , think the damage " falls from the sky ," and do not understand that death is scheduled feat for pvp .
4 - cw vs. gwf :
What do I need to talk about it ? It took the most powerful feat Game + one nerf to cw for two classes approached in pve ... cw and still win! I see a lot of cw stating that it is not fair gwf be "tank and dps " in pvp , and they were always full in pve . What's worse, players of other classes , rather than taking this as evidence of the imbalance , also asking for the nerf gwf !
There are those who say "it's wrong to be gwf tank and dps", (The destroyer is "tank" in that it does damage, but have talked about it). What they forget is that a balanced party, the class is not able to perform other functions in addition to damages. That is, she's not steals the place for anyone (except maybe the rogue that needs a buff, not a nerf us).
This impression of autonomy class ignores one thing: to do harm must keep the enemy block: who is the expert in crowd control? The cw. If we have a cw, we are full.
Similarly, supposedly a ranger need a gf to contain a threat. I do not know if the cw can cover well the ranger, but you can not, is painted the scene: we're a good class that depends on better. A ranger, on the other hand, depends on that which is, so to speak, the "less necessary."
Place a party with 3 gwf and a ranger and see the clutter that is not.
ps: I forgot to say: gwf in pve remains a disaster. people see gwf go well in pvp, or that friend do a great job, but the overall gwf still doing a lousy job.
when i play with my dc, the last class want is gwf. the amount of people who think gwf just kill everything and will never fall, and therefore always fall without killing anyone is immense.
<meme removed, per RoC>
Simple as that really. :cool:
So I wouldn't worry too much.
This, no feat especially in the first tree should be able to be more than 50% of a GWFs dps. It is obviously a bug and I've seen numbers where deep gash (before scaling for buffs/debuffs) does the damage of a GWF that has over 500k power. It was going to get nerfed. There isn't a capstone even that adds nearly this much damage. The fact that it can do more than all your at-wills, dailies, and encounters combined was just ridiculous. One feat in Tier one of destroyer that doubles damage is obviously not intended.
From now apologize to all people with whom to discuss. The gwf is a doomed class.
ps: Now I understand the nature of the topic.
Damage from Deep Gash is less then 50%. It is obviously not a bug since original Shadowmantle patch notes state that it benefits from "Strength And Other Damage Bonses" (AMOUNT YOU CRIT). I dont know where your getting this 500K power numbers from I have never seen anything near that.. ...I dont see any bug here since it clearly states the damage from Deep gash come from MORE then just a % of Power. If the issue is that its doing too much damage, we need an increase of 15-25% damage on all of our abilities to make up for this loss (Weapon Masters Strike, Battle Strike,, Wicked Strike, etc.. ) Unless of course Designers want CW's to Top all Forms of DPS in any function, (I doubt they do) As there are ccertain types of players who do dungeons just for the DMG meter's. (Fun part of any MMO)
Also if the case is being in the 1st Tier Issue you could look into these :
Bitter Cold - Oppresor Tree ( 1st TIER ) 100% uptime + damage on almost every fight
Critical Power - Renegade Tree (1st TIER ) Critting almost 80%+ of the time( Eye of the Storm ) almost 85%+ uptime
Please go look at Page 1, Fist Post, the Reason for the Thread.
Clearly stated from Dev's Themselves, It Gains from more then just Power. Formula's for MANY Abilities in the game are unknown for mutlple classes, Those just havent been bought up yet. No one knows the exact calculations of many things in this game, I am merely quoting Dev's on the Shadowmantle Patch notes that states that Deep Gash benefits from your Strength and OTHER DAMAGE BONUSES.
i do want that damage transferred to our at-wills, id prefer my at-wills doing good dmg than some dot ticking while our at-wills do lower dmg than said DOT or tr with their pathetic toothpicks
Exactly. Thank you. There is nothing wrong with Deep Gash, which is why the patch notes that are Fixing Threatning rush animation, have no mention to Deep gash, Because the damage it is doing is intended. and people stating it is doing 40% of GWF's DPS.....Of course it is going to do 40% of the DPS.....your sitting there swinging weapon master strike on 50+ adds at one time, each mob is going to get deep Gash.....obiously its going to be 40%+ damage.....
Nerf Shard of Endless Avalanche Guys ! its doing 50% + Damage! nerf nerf !! lol.......so tired of QQ
<meme removed, per RoC>
Though in reference to Deep Gash I am refraining from QQing, cause I love it long time. :cool:
Gotta pick your battles... lol
Do you even know what you are talking about? How do those compare? Bitter cold adds 5% damage after adding chill that lasts for 6 seconds. Most CWs run one encounter that adds chill.
Critical Power gives you AP AND it has an internal cooldown. How is that OP?
Here's a 2 VT run damage log with Valiant on GWF. I will also point out Valiant was not running max power, in fact he ran huge arm/pen crit gear. His crit was over 4600 at the time and his arm pen was above the soft cap by itself, because he thought at the time that arm pen from CON was defensive, not offensive resistance ignored. So he was way over 2 caps and could have easily put ~2k more in power than he was during these runs. There was no CW so no big debuffs going.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/90627245/Combatlog.Log
Long story short, deep gash was 51% of his total damage and it sadly could have been more.
He had deep gash base damage as high as 13275 per tick, note this is BASE DAMAGE, it would include a str bonus but does not include buffs/debuffs which would be way higher. So 6 ticks at 13275 = 79650 deep gash damage, his highest damage encounter through this run was 51948, so the bleed does more damage than encounters... 79650 / .15 = 531,000, hence the damage of a GWF with over 500,000 power comment.
What do GWFs get from going deep in destroyer? Some more single target damage from focused destroyer, gaining some determination from attacking, and extra damage during unstoppable. What does instigator have? Lots of extra from bugged student of the sword, another 5% damage and crit during combat advantage, a skill that will now grant you combat advantage rather than relying on positioning, a HUGE buff to Wicked Strike (5% for each target hit) and 12% more damage when you're not getting hit from the capstone. Maybe if you guys wanted to do more damage, you should look at the tree with the most buffs / debuffs to damage since these will scale your extra damage from power that much more.
If that's what you're saying, it's been months and months since it was a well known fact that Con stat added to your ArmPen percentage... like since September I think? I just have a hard time conceptualizing Valiant (who is a PvE GWF G.O.D.!) wouldn't know that.
Also understand I am not trying to insinuate that you are disseminating false information on purpose, not at all. I'm just thinking something was lost in translation somewhere as I am sure Valiant knew how it worked... I mean he is **** good, and it's hard to imagine that he thought it was somehow different months after it was well known to any experienced GWF how it worked.
If that's not what you're saying, then no worries... I was just looking to clarify! :cool:
Focused Destroyer is, for all intents and purposes, a 12% buff to our damage within 2-4 seconds of hitting multiple adds and it stays up.
The Instigator capstone is trash, because we get hit all the time... It's our job after all! lol
Now getting Not So Fast to have auto Combat Advantage? That is super sweet, and I would love to spend an extra 5 points on it, and maybe a hybrid build would do more damage... However, the Instigator Capstone is no where near as good as the Destroyer's capstone, IMO.
Mind you, I'm not answering anything on the CW claims some people have made, it's not my area of expertise, and I have no standing to speak on it.
Daria - Dwarf Sentinel GWF (mistaken for Halfling a lot)
Karia (aka "The Pug") - Human Combat HR
Kayd - Human Conqueror GF - Retired
I think he got confused after reading some old threads is all. Yes he believed it gave him more damage resistance (defensive resistance ignored.) He also believed he needed more crit and in fact was running with a lot of blue crit/arm pen gear as I stated. This was just a few days ago. I agree that Valiant is 100% amazing, but it happens to everyone from time to time and you read and try something out. Hell I went and tested the CON myself just minutes after to see for myself that it was offensive. lol. I'm pretty sure he already adjusted his build to go with more power, with less arm pen and crit.
Also of note, for the IV tree out there the cap on frontline surge was raised to 5 targets. The patch notes that had this have since been removed. So there's a nice damage bonus for that GWF branch coming soon.
Thanks for the clarification!
I've definitely tried wacky things that didn't go according to plan a few times myself, so I can definitely relate.
I missed that, so that definitely helps a bit... 5 Cap on Frontline seems pretty darn awesome IMO, more AP generation for each person hit also I'd hope. Still not a huge fan of Frontline when I am killing adds though, as the knockback is annoying (IMO). I usually only use it on bosses/solo fights... Though, if it starts to work/flow better I will adapt accordingly!
Gotta agree with Stox about the Deep Gash issue.
Pre Mod 2 when it was working as intended, the DPS was rather minor as it was not affected by exterior bonuses other than Power.
Post Mod 2 when the bonuses (refer to Steam's OP) kicked in, was shocked the first time, to see the damage skyrocket as compared to what it was before the tweaks. It might or might not be working as intended and it's definitely great if it is, but it could be quite overboard.
I said it once and ill say it again, 50% damage from Deep Gash? so what your in a dungeon that is completely AOE Based, all of VT is AoE there is not one single target fight other then VT, so a Destroyer DMG Speced GWF sitting under 30-40 adds Swinging away freely with weapon master strike, and hitting everything, Obiously your going to see 50% damage from a Bleed......your hitting HUGE numbers of adds. what did u expect ? to see 50% dmg from battle strike? 50% damage from Restoring Strike? no ur seeing 50% dmg based off of a TICK DOT (Deep Gash) that is hitting EVERYTHING......
what is the % of dmg for a CW's Shard? 30%-50% ? nerf it please its too much...... lol ?
the 50% dmg argument doesnt stand here im sorry, we are hitting everything with weapon master strike, every add has deep gash on them. and Every add has DEBUFFS on them, High Viz, Student of the sword, WIcked Reminder, HIgh prophets.....
- Deep gash now BENEFITS from your Strength and OTHER DAMAGE BONUSES.
and also Destroyers Purpose is a HUGE gain in DMG for PvE Destroyers.
Im not sitting here and saying that it's dealing Low damage, or that its dealing too much damage, Im supply Implying that the original shadowmantle Patch Notes STATES
that is is now benefiting from MORE then just the Power. so its not a BUG and its NOT BROKEN, it is either a simple design FLAW or we need to get DMG buff's from other sources such as Weapon master Strike, or Encounters or Slam/Avalanche.
a GWF has a 2H sword not a shield, it is meant to deal damage. and if the intent of the System Designers are that GWF's should NOT be dealing more damage then a "Control" Wizard, Then please, Valiant, Blitz, Leeroy, lets all roll CW's since we have no hope.