the tool tip needs making more clear with full break down but don't need changing
but every single skill power talent in game needs that u can pretty much pick most power with multiple % on it and break it down and its wrong the damage on tool tips.
its changed for the better its more in line with cw you said your self cw still top so you want to gimp people not top more if its bug and gets reduce that's what effect it would have it don't break any thing in game and even you said they should be top at min still
unless you think every one should have half cw dps no matter what.
if its not bug its tool tip and if its tool tip error its typo
we can list a lot tool tips that show wrong damage on them we can list a lot tool tips that are not clear so what makes you think this 1 tool tips is perfect after patch not long ago when others are broken or missing info for 200+ days
the tool tip needs making more clear with full break down but don't need changing
but every single skill power talent in game needs that u can pretty much pick most power with multiple % on it and break it down and its wrong the damage on tool tips.
its changed for the better its more in line with cw you said your self cw still top so you want to gimp people not top more if its bug and gets reduce that's what effect it would have it don't break any thing in game and even you said they should be top at min still
unless you think every one should have half cw dps no matter what.
if its not bug its tool tip and if its tool tip error its typo
we can list a lot tool tips that show wrong damage on them we can list a lot tool tips that are not clear so what makes you think this 1 tool tips is perfect after patch not long ago when others are broken or missing info for 200+ days
In what part of me saying " it isn't working as what the tool tip says" means that i want it nerfed?
i CLEARLY said that it could be tool tip error or could be a bug. I didn't ask for any nerfs.
I have a pretty solid GWF myself (2 of them actually), good for me if it was intended. I don't really care
This whole deep gash feat thing has got me interested. I still have not seen an equally geared GWF out DPS my GF. But if this Deep gash thing is really as powerful as ppl claim it is, then Even I will bend knee and admit that a GWF has become a damage dealer that a GF cannot compare too. Something I have long since believed they should be. (I'm beginning to doubt it and think the spreadsheets might have a serious mathematical error)
So I'm going to look for a Deep Gash GWF for future groups and I'll be back when I see a GWF with equal or lesser gear out DPS my GF to confirm how much extra damage this feat is actually giving the GWF.
Here is my problem with GWFs in PVE and the problem I think most people have. If a CW is the highest DPS, highest CC, AND tanks all the mobs like the current system is, then why take other classes other than a CW? With the damage that a high end CW can output, neither GF nor GWF can hold hate on the mobs. The real tank class in the game is the CW and that's just pathetic since we have paper armor. I have said multiple times that this game needs a better aggro control system, and it does.
Now the problem they have with them in PVP at the moment is only a highly skilled CW has a "chance" at beating a senti, and believe me this is not an easy fight for the CW, or an HR abusing vines and other HR bugs like instant cooldowns has a chance. I would put money that no TR (the supposedly best single target dps with stealth and ITC and high life and regen) can beat a current high end senti in PVP. For the most part now the tankiest class in PVP (the GWF) can also kill most other classes in a single rotation of skills. So now they have become one of the highest damage dealers and the tankiest class. Seems legit.
This whole deep gash feat thing has got me interested. I still have not seen an equally geared GWF out DPS my GF. But if this Deep gash thing is really as powerful as ppl claim it is, then Even I will bend knee and admit that a GWF has become a damage dealer that a GF cannot compare too. Something I have long since believed they should be. (I'm beginning to doubt it and think the spreadsheets might have a serious mathematical error)
So I'm going to look for a Deep Gash GWF for future groups and I'll be back when I see a GWF with equal or lesser gear out DPS my GF to confirm how much extra damage this feat is actually giving the GWF.
The funny thing is that the topic completly derailed to what that feat is meant or not meant to be while my only purpouse was to prove that despite everyone says, GWF got an impressive boost with module 2 (just in the wrong way) while the GF is the class that atm has less and less viability in a party.
Note that I don't think that the way to increse the utility of a tank in this game is to boost his dps (as they were goin to do with the new path) but I'd prefer they keep followin the path they introduced with module 1 where they did a dungeon with CC immune adds, single boss fight and so on.
Last but not least: stop givin the GF sets with 4-5k def...
The funny thing is that the topic completly derailed to what that feat is meant or not meant to be while my only purpouse was to prove that despite everyone says, GWF got an impressive boost with module 2 (just in the wrong way) while the GF is the class that atm has less and less viability in a party.
Note that I don't think that the way to increse the utility of a tank in this game is to boost his dps (as they were goin to do with the new path) but I'd prefer they keep followin the path they introduced with module 1 where they did a dungeon with CC immune adds, single boss fight and so on.
Last but not least: stop givin the GF sets with 4-5k def...
GWF definitely did need an impressive boost and if the start dealing 30% more damage than me then I'll have a reason to take them in my groups. IE A tough damage dealing melee that wont drop as quickly as a TR but doesnt have quite as much single target DPS. Is useful as a damage dealer.
If the GWF's new found damage lets them out threat me then I'd say the buff went too far but I doubt that will ever happen.
And yes I agree about the GF's lacking selection of gear. I know I am heavily reliant on my augment companion to get the DPS stats I want/need to play GF the way I do.
GWF definitely did need an impressive boost and if the start dealing 30% more damage than me then I'll have a reason to take them in my groups. IE A tough damage dealing melee that wont drop as quickly as a TR but doesnt have quite as much single target DPS. Is useful as a damage dealer.
If the GWF's new found damage lets them out threat me then I'd say the buff went too far but I doubt that will ever happen.
And yes I agree about the GF's lacking selection of gear. I know I am heavily reliant on my augment companion to get the DPS stats I want/need to play GF the way I do.
bleed is back slam, worse for pvp (not passing through the dot resistance / defense / deflect) and without all the cc.
if gwf no surprised you in the beta, no surprise you in module2.;)
all the rest comes down to cw / rogue who does not know the gwf; admired players / 'concerned with new power, in view of the trash that was in the class Module1.
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katbozejziemiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 856Arc User
edited December 2013
Maybe we should start wondering what we'll do when the devs inevitably fix this bug and we end up doing 20% less damage than before the Mod 2 update.
This should tell you how much the "buffs" GWF got are worth.
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inthefade462Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited December 2013
we do same dmg with deep gash "bug/wai/whatever" as anim-cancel mod 1 wms.
probably fuel for the fire but i'm just going to put this here:
[17:50] [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Frontline Surge deals 45164 (21460) Physical to Battle Wight Commander.
[17:50] [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Deep Gash deals 11790 (5602) Physical to Battle Wight Commander.
[17:50] [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Deep Gash deals 8911 (5602) Physical to Battle Wight Commander.
[17:50] [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Deep Gash deals 6928 (5602) Physical to Battle Wight Commander.
[17:50] [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Deep Gash deals 8911 (5602) Physical to Battle Wight Commander.
[17:50] [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Deep Gash deals 10421 (5602) Physical to Battle Wight Commander.
it seems bleed dmg is weird because they are stacking not overwriting. On a single critical it just repeats the dmg over 5 secs, not recalculate each tick. it seems it's doing it here with the (5602) but then the dmg varies wildly.
we do same dmg with deep gash "bug/wai/whatever" as anim-cancel mod 1 wms.
probably fuel for the fire but i'm just going to put this here:
[17:50] [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Frontline Surge deals 45164 (21460) Physical to Battle Wight Commander.
[17:50] [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Deep Gash deals 11790 (5602) Physical to Battle Wight Commander.
[17:50] [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Deep Gash deals 8911 (5602) Physical to Battle Wight Commander.
[17:50] [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Deep Gash deals 6928 (5602) Physical to Battle Wight Commander.
[17:50] [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Deep Gash deals 8911 (5602) Physical to Battle Wight Commander.
[17:50] [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Deep Gash deals 10421 (5602) Physical to Battle Wight Commander.
it seems bleed dmg is weird because they are stacking not overwriting. On a single critical it just repeats the dmg over 5 secs, not recalculate each tick. it seems it's doing it here with the (5602) but then the dmg varies wildly.
This must be after heavy debuffing...
As long as I hit the same amount with Shard and SS, fine by me. However, the bleed is a passive 46961 Damage, it's a bit lulzy, since shard and SS need to be aimed and on a cooldown. Then again, the bleed is applied on crit only.
Just a few questions:
- does it always crit?
- are we sure this accumulated 46961 overall Damage is from a single FS crit?
I think the damage varied so much because some debuffs expired and then new ones hit.
As long as I hit the same amount with Shard and SS, fine by me. However, the bleed is a passive 46961 Damage, it's a bit lulzy, since shard and SS need to be aimed and on a cooldown. Then again, the bleed is applied on crit only.
Just a few questions:
- does it always crit?
- are we sure this accumulated 46961 overall Damage is from a single FS crit?
I think the damage varied so much because some debuffs expired and then new ones hit.
1. Yes, it seems to have a 100% critical chance, so this aspect is most likely broken.
2. Can't answer since not the original poster, but the total Deep Gash damage from an At-Will such as Sure Strike differs alot from that of an Encounter such as Indomitable Battle Strike. The damage is around that stated amount.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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inthefade462Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited December 2013
the feat only procs on a crit, and the way this game is coded, DoTs from crits are always crits themselves, not a bug thats how they all work.
I only had that log because it was the last wight before Fulminorax and I got knocked back so that was the last damage i dealt before it died. Now that I think about it it, it was debuffs wearing off and being reapplied, the Dot is constantly being overwritten by the dmg from other crits, ie at-will sure strike (single target) or wicked (aoe). it was only because i got knocked down and it was the last mob left that the dot ran its full course. You can theoretically run around and get big bleeds on 5 mobs then move to another set of 5 mobs allowing the dots to run its course, though you would have to utilize slam to slow the mobs on you so can re-position and hit 5 different mobs, which is the only way to get bleeds to make up 40%+ of your dmg. This is assuming your cw's allow mobs to stay living for more than 2 seconds, ie if you don't have any CWs in your party, deep gash can make up quite a bit of your dmg. typically though it's only 15-25% or so depending on the dps of your party.
Honestly I think bleeds are fine. I think what's more likely is that they will realize that they directly transcribed powers balanced for GF's 500 dmg weapons to a class that has 1k dmg weapons. 30-50k FLS is not uncommon and it hits 3 targets.
As I said in another topic, the dynamics of gwf prevents bleed remains high. not counting the gwf only have 3 really big bleeds (considering the number of targets):
reaping strike (I do not need to argue).
ibs (is fast, builds ap, is very good now)
Frontline Surge ( IV): that has a long countdown.
the only way it can create a "problem" in pve is playing for "contamination" or keeping the rotation with high bleed forever. but this is one of those "strong" and possibilities of each class will depend on a certain individual talent.
It took 7 GWF's for me to find one to exceed my Aoe damage.
Now I can't confirm the builds on any of these GWF's and if they had Deep gash or not. But I did this testing all in VT party's in groups of 14k+ Gearscores. 3 of these GWFs did about half my damage. The other 3 where nothing quite special they did okay. Less damage than me but I am an 18k GF. The 7th a 15k GWF with Greater Vorpal did about 15-20% more damage than before Valindra... he almost beat me.
I say almost because we tried 4 times before downing Valindra. In those 4 Attempts my damage exceeded the GWF. By 100k. If this is the best Bleed has to offer it's nothing special. It puts GWF as the 2nd highest damaging Aoe Class if played right, but still well below a CW, and so many still play it wrong. GF's still have the 2nd highest single target DPS in the game, GWF just doesn't have anything that beats knights challenge. Bleed just doesn't compare to an 80k Anvil of doom crit or 160k at low health.
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katbozejziemiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 856Arc User
edited January 2014
So you have 18K GS and barely beat someone with 15K and you say its nothing special?
You're hilarious.
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inthefade462Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited January 2014
It took 7 GWF's for me to find one to exceed my Aoe damage.
Sounds legit since 90% of players of all classes are bad. Keep looking you'll find one with a clue.
It's taken 750491 GFs to find one that can deal 1/2 the dmg of my GWF. Would love to group with you some time to see this amazing GF dmg. Wiping on Val though would be unacceptable much less 3x I hope that's ok.
GF's still have the 2nd highest single target DPS in the game, GWF just doesn't have anything that beats knights challenge. Bleed just doesn't compare to an 80k Anvil of doom crit or 160k at low health.
So you barely managed to outdps a class (that can be argued to be more survivable than you) while you were using a power that doubled your damage and needed a spike from an encounter with a long cooldown and somehow think that other class is blanced?
What nonsense I have read ... gwf the damage that can override the gf in question IS NOT tank. he has averaged 25k hp. You do not understand nothing about gwf, and comes forward opinions about what is not known!
Second, this gwf with "Broken Feat" IS NOT ABLE TO OVERWRITE A CW.
repeating for those who only know the troll:
gwf "super dps" = gwf with low resistance.
maximum damage in gwf <cw damage (in pve).
how many more times must this be repeated? Then post a log of a sentinel to "hitting a perfect vorpal ibs a pity 8k gs and say" Look, look at the damage gwf. "This is mere peeve with the class.
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zardoz007Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 2Arc User
we do same dmg with deep gash "bug/wai/whatever" as anim-cancel mod 1 wms.
probably fuel for the fire but i'm just going to put this here:
[17:50] [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Frontline Surge deals 45164 (21460) Physical to Battle Wight Commander.
[17:50] [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Deep Gash deals 11790 (5602) Physical to Battle Wight Commander.
[17:50] [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Deep Gash deals 8911 (5602) Physical to Battle Wight Commander.
[17:50] [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Deep Gash deals 6928 (5602) Physical to Battle Wight Commander.
[17:50] [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Deep Gash deals 8911 (5602) Physical to Battle Wight Commander.
[17:50] [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Deep Gash deals 10421 (5602) Physical to Battle Wight Commander.
it seems bleed dmg is weird because they are stacking not overwriting. On a single critical it just repeats the dmg over 5 secs, not recalculate each tick. it seems it's doing it here with the (5602) but then the dmg varies wildly.
Having used Deep gash on my High power build GWF, your numbers seem way to high. There is no way bleed is giving back this much damage return on most hits a GWF makes.
I believe Deep Gash is alot more limiting than people are making it out to be. I have tested this. when you crit with a High damage encounter on GWF you deal high bleed. But on your next crit with an Atwill that bleed is replaced with with the new bleed that does alot less damage. So your numbers can only happen if you crit a mob, albet a very well debuffed mob then stop attacking it to go fight another mob so you keep getting high DPS numbers.
Not a very effective strategy just to try to inflate a GWF's numbers. Even doing so I doubt a GWF could get his numbers as high as an equally geared CW.
Deep Gash is a great way to inflate the sense of usefulness a GWF could bring to the group but ultimately at the end of a dungeon a GWF's damage will not compare to a CW's damage. Putting them as a lesser damage dealer choice compared to a CW that brings both damage and control.
If a GWF in any build could bring the same damage and survivability they do now with enough threat to protect CW's and HR's from adds then they will fulfill the roll of offtank they are meant to be. But right now it is just not viable GWF's dont have any threat moves with speccing Sentinal and giving up alot of there good damage feats to take threat bonus feats.
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inthefade462Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited January 2014
Um not sure what you are saying. Those numbers are real, highly debuffed mobs obviously, as all mobs are highly debuffed. Yes only a handful of powers will get bleeds that high and yeah they are overridden by at wills.
By the way i am sentinel and do deal the threat to tank over most cw/hr. Bleeds are a big part of holding threat, almost as big as being first to aggro and first to deal dmg. leaving high dmg bleeds on initial mobs allow you to overcome the 5 target cap and grab the unaggrod/undamaged mobs before split shot spam or cw unlimited target aoe hits the new spawns/undamaged mobs your 5 target cap prevented you from hitting in the first place.
If you are still swinging at the first 5 mobs you hit when the average pull is 15 then yeah you'll make a terrible tank, offtank or main. With how little tanking is actually required in this game you best figure out how to make do if thats the slot your trying to fill in a dungeon.
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zardoz007Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 2Arc User
edited January 2014
What I'm saying is a GWF cannot tank by hitting a mob once with an encounter then ignoring it for the mob to continue bleeding and expect the bleed damage to hold threat. GWF's need to put out high constant damage on mobs to hold threat.
The huge bleed damage that was posted is not going to happen in single target boss fights because you lose that amazing bleed damage on the next crit you score against the boss. A GWF will not stop attacking the boss to admire the bleed from a huge crit.
I'm saying that the bleed damage a GWF does cannot be 30% of there total damage like players are claiming. It is more like 30% of there total At-will damage as alot of the bleed from encounter/daily crits will be wasted when replaced with bleeds from at-wills.
The Deep gash change so far has been a good thing to the GWF class, but not nearly as overpowered as people claim, it really does not need to be change. In the past few weeks I still have seen enough complaints about fighters and there usefulness in game for me to retire my GWF once again. It's especially hard for me to repick up the class because I have well geared toons in every class, and it seems that there is always a better option to adding a GWF to your group, so when do I get to play GWF when I have another class that is a better choice. This is especially true since my main is CW and I'm very good at it.
I'm saying that the bleed damage a GWF does cannot be 30% of there total damage like players are claiming. It is more like 30% of there total At-will damage as alot of the bleed from encounter/daily crits will be wasted when replaced with bleeds from at-wills.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/90627245/Combatlog%20-6%20DK%20runs.Log
This is 36% deep gash damage from a rank 7 GWF, another guy has posted a log with it being over 44%. Also, if you break it down to just damage on boss, it's a higher percentage than 36 in this log. I've seen as high as 47% in a log personally.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, it's hard to argue with numbers but there seems to always be someone who is willing to try.
Easiest way to balance this class is simply to increase their aggro. They aren't meant to be both the tankiest class in the game and the best damage dealers. Fighter is a martial defender class in fourth edition Dungeons & Dragons.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/90627245/Combatlog%20-6%20DK%20runs.Log
This is 36% deep gash damage from a rank 7 GWF, another guy has posted a log with it being over 44%. Also, if you break it down to just damage on boss, it's a higher percentage than 36 in this log. I've seen as high as 47% in a log personally.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, it's hard to argue with numbers but there seems to always be someone who is willing to try.
Easiest way to balance this class is simply to increase their aggro. They aren't meant to be both the tankiest class in the game and the best damage dealers. Fighter is a martial defender class in fourth edition Dungeons & Dragons.
best solution is to put deep gash deep in the destroyer tree, so you wont have problem with sents having bleeds anymore
best solution is to put deep gash deep in the destroyer tree, so you wont have problem with sents having bleeds anymore
Deep gash is broken, it doesn't need to be moved, it needs to be fixed! Currently GWF does more damage than the 2 striker classes (TR and HR.) Why do you think a fighter class meant to be a tank is supposed to have this kind of damage? It's unrealistic. The bleed from deep gash alone does more damage than the bleed from duelist's flurry, which is supposed to be part of the damage of the TR at will. If you compare at-will damage without this bleed, again GWF leaves them in the dust.
Deep gash is broken, it doesn't need to be moved, it needs to be fixed! Currently GWF does more damage than the 2 striker classes (TR and HR.) Why do you think a fighter class meant to be a tank is supposed to have this kind of damage? It's unrealistic. The bleed from deep gash alone does more damage than the bleed from duelist's flurry, which is supposed to be part of the damage of the TR at will. If you compare at-will damage without this bleed, again GWF leaves them in the dust.
A PvE TR will still beat a PvE GWF in single target, like it's supposed to, even with Deep Gash at its current state. CWs are still beating or on par with GWFs overall dps, so why hurt PvE more and send GWFs back into not being wanted in PvE? It's better to move Deep Gash into destroyer tree, imo.
I think you should stay where you are. taking the rancor of enthusiasts from another class, that imbalance is creating a deep gash?
1 - one cw with super damage / control or a rogue that alone can kill a boss just managing the stealth (without necessarily being perma) is a source of MUCH greater imbalance.
2 - gwf entered the qUe as dps with the rogue.. he was NEVER defender in the online game. the gf had its own priority as such.
3 - patch notes: Feat: "Deep Gash: This feat now benefits from Strength and other damage bonuses."
I do not take much faith in the feat, but personally as I posted the logs in the feedback forum preview (and videos), I can not understand this lobby. I've done the lobby.
ps: I have to agree here, the bleed of the swordmaster is not as high as the IV. or something iv is stronger than it should, or the wms is not giving bonus to bleed.
Comments
but every single skill power talent in game needs that u can pretty much pick most power with multiple % on it and break it down and its wrong the damage on tool tips.
its changed for the better its more in line with cw you said your self cw still top so you want to gimp people not top more if its bug and gets reduce that's what effect it would have it don't break any thing in game and even you said they should be top at min still
unless you think every one should have half cw dps no matter what.
if its not bug its tool tip and if its tool tip error its typo
we can list a lot tool tips that show wrong damage on them we can list a lot tool tips that are not clear so what makes you think this 1 tool tips is perfect after patch not long ago when others are broken or missing info for 200+ days
In what part of me saying " it isn't working as what the tool tip says" means that i want it nerfed?
i CLEARLY said that it could be tool tip error or could be a bug. I didn't ask for any nerfs.
I have a pretty solid GWF myself (2 of them actually), good for me if it was intended. I don't really care
sorry that comment was not really just aimed at you as dident quote but this one is then
1- The feat tool tip isn't accurate (which is kind of un realistic, because no feat should be 30% of your DPS
so you think it should be more than 30%
and not saying it is 30% becase it all depends on what powers so on you use and how long mobs are there
Name a feat of any class that makes them deal 30%+ of the over all class's DPS. This is why i said it is kind of unrealistic.
If the developers suddenly decided to exclusively give that kind of feat intentionally for GWFs to make them deal more damage, that's GREAT then!
But it could also be a bug and wasn't intended. I'm sorry for saying my opinion about it i didn't know it would make you go that defensive.
So I'm going to look for a Deep Gash GWF for future groups and I'll be back when I see a GWF with equal or lesser gear out DPS my GF to confirm how much extra damage this feat is actually giving the GWF.
Now the problem they have with them in PVP at the moment is only a highly skilled CW has a "chance" at beating a senti, and believe me this is not an easy fight for the CW, or an HR abusing vines and other HR bugs like instant cooldowns has a chance. I would put money that no TR (the supposedly best single target dps with stealth and ITC and high life and regen) can beat a current high end senti in PVP. For the most part now the tankiest class in PVP (the GWF) can also kill most other classes in a single rotation of skills. So now they have become one of the highest damage dealers and the tankiest class. Seems legit.
The funny thing is that the topic completly derailed to what that feat is meant or not meant to be while my only purpouse was to prove that despite everyone says, GWF got an impressive boost with module 2 (just in the wrong way) while the GF is the class that atm has less and less viability in a party.
Note that I don't think that the way to increse the utility of a tank in this game is to boost his dps (as they were goin to do with the new path) but I'd prefer they keep followin the path they introduced with module 1 where they did a dungeon with CC immune adds, single boss fight and so on.
Last but not least: stop givin the GF sets with 4-5k def...
GWF definitely did need an impressive boost and if the start dealing 30% more damage than me then I'll have a reason to take them in my groups. IE A tough damage dealing melee that wont drop as quickly as a TR but doesnt have quite as much single target DPS. Is useful as a damage dealer.
If the GWF's new found damage lets them out threat me then I'd say the buff went too far but I doubt that will ever happen.
And yes I agree about the GF's lacking selection of gear. I know I am heavily reliant on my augment companion to get the DPS stats I want/need to play GF the way I do.
bleed is back slam, worse for pvp (not passing through the dot resistance / defense / deflect) and without all the cc.
if gwf no surprised you in the beta, no surprise you in module2.;)
all the rest comes down to cw / rogue who does not know the gwf; admired players / 'concerned with new power, in view of the trash that was in the class Module1.
This should tell you how much the "buffs" GWF got are worth.
probably fuel for the fire but i'm just going to put this here:
[17:50] [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Frontline Surge deals 45164 (21460) Physical to Battle Wight Commander.
[17:50] [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Deep Gash deals 11790 (5602) Physical to Battle Wight Commander.
[17:50] [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Deep Gash deals 8911 (5602) Physical to Battle Wight Commander.
[17:50] [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Deep Gash deals 6928 (5602) Physical to Battle Wight Commander.
[17:50] [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Deep Gash deals 8911 (5602) Physical to Battle Wight Commander.
[17:50] [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Deep Gash deals 10421 (5602) Physical to Battle Wight Commander.
it seems bleed dmg is weird because they are stacking not overwriting. On a single critical it just repeats the dmg over 5 secs, not recalculate each tick. it seems it's doing it here with the (5602) but then the dmg varies wildly.
There is no way in hell a bleed should be doing that much damage.
This must be after heavy debuffing...
As long as I hit the same amount with Shard and SS, fine by me. However, the bleed is a passive 46961 Damage, it's a bit lulzy, since shard and SS need to be aimed and on a cooldown. Then again, the bleed is applied on crit only.
Just a few questions:
- does it always crit?
- are we sure this accumulated 46961 overall Damage is from a single FS crit?
I think the damage varied so much because some debuffs expired and then new ones hit.
1. Yes, it seems to have a 100% critical chance, so this aspect is most likely broken.
2. Can't answer since not the original poster, but the total Deep Gash damage from an At-Will such as Sure Strike differs alot from that of an Encounter such as Indomitable Battle Strike. The damage is around that stated amount.
I only had that log because it was the last wight before Fulminorax and I got knocked back so that was the last damage i dealt before it died. Now that I think about it it, it was debuffs wearing off and being reapplied, the Dot is constantly being overwritten by the dmg from other crits, ie at-will sure strike (single target) or wicked (aoe). it was only because i got knocked down and it was the last mob left that the dot ran its full course. You can theoretically run around and get big bleeds on 5 mobs then move to another set of 5 mobs allowing the dots to run its course, though you would have to utilize slam to slow the mobs on you so can re-position and hit 5 different mobs, which is the only way to get bleeds to make up 40%+ of your dmg. This is assuming your cw's allow mobs to stay living for more than 2 seconds, ie if you don't have any CWs in your party, deep gash can make up quite a bit of your dmg. typically though it's only 15-25% or so depending on the dps of your party.
Honestly I think bleeds are fine. I think what's more likely is that they will realize that they directly transcribed powers balanced for GF's 500 dmg weapons to a class that has 1k dmg weapons. 30-50k FLS is not uncommon and it hits 3 targets.
reaping strike (I do not need to argue).
ibs (is fast, builds ap, is very good now)
Frontline Surge ( IV): that has a long countdown.
the only way it can create a "problem" in pve is playing for "contamination" or keeping the rotation with high bleed forever. but this is one of those "strong" and possibilities of each class will depend on a certain individual talent.
Now I can't confirm the builds on any of these GWF's and if they had Deep gash or not. But I did this testing all in VT party's in groups of 14k+ Gearscores. 3 of these GWFs did about half my damage. The other 3 where nothing quite special they did okay. Less damage than me but I am an 18k GF. The 7th a 15k GWF with Greater Vorpal did about 15-20% more damage than before Valindra... he almost beat me.
I say almost because we tried 4 times before downing Valindra. In those 4 Attempts my damage exceeded the GWF. By 100k. If this is the best Bleed has to offer it's nothing special. It puts GWF as the 2nd highest damaging Aoe Class if played right, but still well below a CW, and so many still play it wrong. GF's still have the 2nd highest single target DPS in the game, GWF just doesn't have anything that beats knights challenge. Bleed just doesn't compare to an 80k Anvil of doom crit or 160k at low health.
You're hilarious.
It's taken 750491 GFs to find one that can deal 1/2 the dmg of my GWF. Would love to group with you some time to see this amazing GF dmg. Wiping on Val though would be unacceptable much less 3x I hope that's ok.
So you barely managed to outdps a class (that can be argued to be more survivable than you) while you were using a power that doubled your damage and needed a spike from an encounter with a long cooldown and somehow think that other class is blanced?
18K GS GF (conqueror) is probably comparable to a 15k GS GWF (though a Destroyer/Instigator would put out more dps than a sent).
Ive run into good DPS GF but they are probably the rarest spec/class other than a DPS DC
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Second, this gwf with "Broken Feat" IS NOT ABLE TO OVERWRITE A CW.
repeating for those who only know the troll:
gwf "super dps" = gwf with low resistance.
maximum damage in gwf <cw damage (in pve).
how many more times must this be repeated? Then post a log of a sentinel to "hitting a perfect vorpal ibs a pity 8k gs and say" Look, look at the damage gwf. "This is mere peeve with the class.
Having used Deep gash on my High power build GWF, your numbers seem way to high. There is no way bleed is giving back this much damage return on most hits a GWF makes.
I believe Deep Gash is alot more limiting than people are making it out to be. I have tested this. when you crit with a High damage encounter on GWF you deal high bleed. But on your next crit with an Atwill that bleed is replaced with with the new bleed that does alot less damage. So your numbers can only happen if you crit a mob, albet a very well debuffed mob then stop attacking it to go fight another mob so you keep getting high DPS numbers.
Not a very effective strategy just to try to inflate a GWF's numbers. Even doing so I doubt a GWF could get his numbers as high as an equally geared CW.
Deep Gash is a great way to inflate the sense of usefulness a GWF could bring to the group but ultimately at the end of a dungeon a GWF's damage will not compare to a CW's damage. Putting them as a lesser damage dealer choice compared to a CW that brings both damage and control.
If a GWF in any build could bring the same damage and survivability they do now with enough threat to protect CW's and HR's from adds then they will fulfill the roll of offtank they are meant to be. But right now it is just not viable GWF's dont have any threat moves with speccing Sentinal and giving up alot of there good damage feats to take threat bonus feats.
By the way i am sentinel and do deal the threat to tank over most cw/hr. Bleeds are a big part of holding threat, almost as big as being first to aggro and first to deal dmg. leaving high dmg bleeds on initial mobs allow you to overcome the 5 target cap and grab the unaggrod/undamaged mobs before split shot spam or cw unlimited target aoe hits the new spawns/undamaged mobs your 5 target cap prevented you from hitting in the first place.
If you are still swinging at the first 5 mobs you hit when the average pull is 15 then yeah you'll make a terrible tank, offtank or main. With how little tanking is actually required in this game you best figure out how to make do if thats the slot your trying to fill in a dungeon.
The huge bleed damage that was posted is not going to happen in single target boss fights because you lose that amazing bleed damage on the next crit you score against the boss. A GWF will not stop attacking the boss to admire the bleed from a huge crit.
I'm saying that the bleed damage a GWF does cannot be 30% of there total damage like players are claiming. It is more like 30% of there total At-will damage as alot of the bleed from encounter/daily crits will be wasted when replaced with bleeds from at-wills.
The Deep gash change so far has been a good thing to the GWF class, but not nearly as overpowered as people claim, it really does not need to be change. In the past few weeks I still have seen enough complaints about fighters and there usefulness in game for me to retire my GWF once again. It's especially hard for me to repick up the class because I have well geared toons in every class, and it seems that there is always a better option to adding a GWF to your group, so when do I get to play GWF when I have another class that is a better choice. This is especially true since my main is CW and I'm very good at it.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/90627245/Combatlog%20-6%20DK%20runs.Log
This is 36% deep gash damage from a rank 7 GWF, another guy has posted a log with it being over 44%. Also, if you break it down to just damage on boss, it's a higher percentage than 36 in this log. I've seen as high as 47% in a log personally.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, it's hard to argue with numbers but there seems to always be someone who is willing to try.
Easiest way to balance this class is simply to increase their aggro. They aren't meant to be both the tankiest class in the game and the best damage dealers. Fighter is a martial defender class in fourth edition Dungeons & Dragons.
best solution is to put deep gash deep in the destroyer tree, so you wont have problem with sents having bleeds anymore
Deep gash is broken, it doesn't need to be moved, it needs to be fixed! Currently GWF does more damage than the 2 striker classes (TR and HR.) Why do you think a fighter class meant to be a tank is supposed to have this kind of damage? It's unrealistic. The bleed from deep gash alone does more damage than the bleed from duelist's flurry, which is supposed to be part of the damage of the TR at will. If you compare at-will damage without this bleed, again GWF leaves them in the dust.
A PvE TR will still beat a PvE GWF in single target, like it's supposed to, even with Deep Gash at its current state. CWs are still beating or on par with GWFs overall dps, so why hurt PvE more and send GWFs back into not being wanted in PvE? It's better to move Deep Gash into destroyer tree, imo.
1 - one cw with super damage / control or a rogue that alone can kill a boss just managing the stealth (without necessarily being perma) is a source of MUCH greater imbalance.
2 - gwf entered the qUe as dps with the rogue.. he was NEVER defender in the online game. the gf had its own priority as such.
3 - patch notes: Feat: "Deep Gash: This feat now benefits from Strength and other damage bonuses."
I do not take much faith in the feat, but personally as I posted the logs in the feedback forum preview (and videos), I can not understand this lobby. I've done the lobby.
ps: I have to agree here, the bleed of the swordmaster is not as high as the IV. or something iv is stronger than it should, or the wms is not giving bonus to bleed.