Can't you understand that PvE specced GWF deals as much damage as a same skill/gear CW in dungeons? That the GWF is the top damage dealer in the last dungeon? That the GWF is an invaluable asset to a party, speeding up trash clearing by a huge amount?
How can you say they deal 50% less damage than equally geared/skilled CW? This is just untrue.
And yes, I tested this, I have a good GWF friend that respecced from PvP tene build to radiant/Power/bleed hybrid build, and I've ran stuff with him. He does basically the same amount of damage as I do at same gear. Nowadays he probably does more since his gear has seen significant upgrading compared to mine.
Also if you're truly skilled&geared, and specced properly, you will deal DOUBLE the damage that a decent CW does.
OH yeah.
Let's not forget that besides the PvE damage supremacy which the GWF enjoys now, they also rule PvP.
So how in the world can you STILL be unhappy?!?
PS: Next time I post here I'll post ACT pictures, and gear screenshots as well hopefully, so all can see the DPS potential of the GWF and how good the class is.
yeah but dps is all gwf brings while cw have the same dps as gwf, cc lock, 2 the best sets which buffs and speed up dungeon,one of the highest 1 target dps ,cw also have the same hp as dps gwf,15 targets caps on daily while gwf 5,the most op daily in game,buff and debuffs mostly your dungeons will go almost 2 faster if u have 2 or more cw in team while if u take gf or gwf instead of cw all they will do is slow u down a lot
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pers3phoneBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited December 2013
OK, so now even max DPS, combined with amazing survivability and some mob control is no longer enough.
I get it now
You want ALL of it. DPS, CC, buffing/debuffing, survivability, PvP supremacy, all.
1 gwf that it has all this damage is not the gwf with great survival , just strong enough to not be a problem ( we fight most of the time in red circles . Why? Comes the explanation below) .
2 - didactic example of the problem with the class .
Here is the damage of my reaping strike . with 3 stacks of the destroyer , and the other with 0 . to keep this bonus and have decent damage , I need to keep me active within 3 sec despite all the bugs / bad players / lags , and tutti quanti . the charge this Atwill is 2.4 sec and wms sucks now . any doubt about the legitimacy of my claim ?
answering the topic and explaining what I class : not good to ask more damage or more control or change the dungeon . is like saying that a car without a steering wheel to win a race , it is necessary to increase the speed or fix the road . No, first the car needs a wheel.
keep the top damage with gwf / destroyer is extremely complicated today. it seems that all plot against your dps . it seems, given the classic problem of threat class , the instigator has had an easier life in this sense.
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pers3phoneBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Not me... I am perfectly fine/happy with where GWFs are currently in PvE/PvP. No complaints from this peanut gallery! :cool:
Yeah, because those that know to play the class are having a blast and lots of fun in every aspect of the game. And those that... well I'm not finishing the sentence. But there are guides in all the class forums and helpful people. If only the disappointed guys would ask, instead of finding complaints about anything, even after their class was upgraded to awesome.
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inthefade462Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited December 2013
lol reaping strike
found your problem.
and yes, GWF that has all that damage also has all that survivability. Class is more than fine atm.
and yes, GWF that has all that damage also has all that survivability. Class is more than fine atm.
The problem of reasoning "I do not care because I do not use" is that in theory the gwf can do things in practice are impossible or complicated, leaving him short of his actual projection.
Hence one of these "balances" move a piece and the whole class goes down, that it is based on theory and not in practice. for example, the "perfect harmony" between the reaping strike and 3 sec/ destroyer . not to mention the avalanch of steel 4 sec.
increase by 2 secs time the destroyer would not do any harm to the balance between classes.
Can't you understand that PvE specced GWF deals as much damage as a same skill/gear CW in dungeons? That the GWF is the top damage dealer in the last dungeon? That the GWF is an invaluable asset to a party, speeding up trash clearing by a huge amount?
How can you say they deal 50% less damage than equally geared/skilled CW? This is just untrue.
And yes, I tested this, I have a good GWF friend that respecced from PvP tene build to radiant/Power/bleed hybrid build, and I've ran stuff with him. He does basically the same amount of damage as I do at same gear. Nowadays he probably does more since his gear has seen significant upgrading compared to mine.
Also if you're truly skilled&geared, and specced properly, you will deal DOUBLE the damage that a decent CW does.
OH yeah.
Let's not forget that besides the PvE damage supremacy which the GWF enjoys now, they also rule PvP.
So how in the world can you STILL be unhappy?!?
PS: Next time I post here I'll post ACT pictures, and gear screenshots as well hopefully, so all can see the DPS potential of the GWF and how good the class is.
You should talk to Stoke and Inna from Essence of Agression. we were practicing 1 x 1s, and they could get me a lot of times with a creative setup and skills. they changed my concept of CW.
Dovahkiin Gannicus, GWF Sentinel- Enemy Team Guild
Gannicus Destroyer, GWF Destroyer retired
Kate Beckinsale NB DC, Link NB GF
"There is only one way to be a champion..., Never ...ing lose"
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katbozejziemiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 856Arc User
The problem of reasoning "I do not care because I do not use" is that in theory the gwf can do things in practice are impossible or complicated, leaving him short of his actual projection.
Hence one of these "balances" move a piece and the whole class goes down, that it is based on theory and not in practice. for example, the "perfect harmony" between the reaping strike and 3 sec/ destroyer . not to mention the avalanch of steel 4 sec.
increase by 2 secs time the destroyer would not do any harm to the balance between classes.
you are saying reaping strike is impossible to use and do any amount of dmg with, or tank because it locks you in an animation for 3 secs standing there like one of the kids on the short bus eating aoes.
Congrats you've learned what everyone else learned at level 2 on their way to the sleeping dragon bridge during the tutorial.
Reaping strike is not the defining ability of the GWF. It does not mean that the gwf is weak or bad in anyway.
With the bugged Deep Gash doing up to 40% of your total damage this is more true now than it ever was.
Deep Gash and student of the sword are in every gwf build regardless of tree, so not really, no. Unless you are talking about pubs that are just plain built wrong in which case it doesn't matter what feats or gear they have, they're probably also using the wrong powers too and are useless no matter what build.
also I don't think there's anything bugged about deep gash. It follows the rules of how crits work, and how bleeds work. it doesn't deal power damage, which may be a bug or just a faulty tool tip description. GWF happens to have a lot of things that benefit from crits.
you are saying reaping strike is impossible to use and do any amount of dmg with, or tank because it locks you in an animation for 3 secs standing there like one of the kids on the short bus eating aoes.
Congrats you've learned what everyone else learned at level 2 on their way to the sleeping dragon bridge during the tutorial.
Reaping strike is not the defining ability of the GWF. It does not mean that the gwf is weak or bad in anyway.
I would have to say that this is pretty fair. We have a couple abilities (Reaping Strike, Punishing Charge, Battle Fury, Come and Get It) which generally fail to do anything of value. And those are just the three that *I* classify as useless. I'm sure you can find someone out there who loves each one for what it is and does. Just as I'm constantly pointing out the merits of abilities like Daring Shout, Mighty Leap and Avalanche of Steel. I love those abilities and use them very well, but see so many simply say they are broken and useless. My experiences obviously differ, but it may be because I play different than them.
Many of our buffs in Module 2 were actually related to making certain abilities more useful and used. Fixed threat generation in Daring Shout (though possibly not fixed enough). Fixed damage output of Wicked Strike (now my go-to at-will).
And we aren't the only class with these types of power issues. Defining the whole class by the worst powers of that class? Not the best idea.
I do still feel that Reaping Strike is completely wrong for GWF, though, and needs a rebuild.
As an aside: I've dropped Student of the Sword in my Sentinel build to trade up to Improved Ferocious Reaction. That said, I very rarely (even in PvP) get to see less than 50% health anymore with my new build. In fact, PvP is the only time I've ever seen Ferocious Reaction hit. So it might not be a great trade off for me.
I'm actually considering taking my Sentinel back Swordmaster, and my Destroyer Iron Vanguard.
"Every adventurer has two things in common: they don't like dying, and they love getting paid. The rest is just semantics." Brecken, famed mercenary of Baldur's Gate
I would have to say that this is pretty fair. We have a couple abilities (Reaping Strike, Punishing Charge, Battle Fury, Come and Get It) which generally fail to do anything of value. And those are just the three that *I* classify as useless. I'm sure you can find someone out there who loves each one for what it is and does. Just as I'm constantly pointing out the merits of abilities like Daring Shout, Mighty Leap and Avalanche of Steel. I love those abilities and use them very well, but see so many simply say they are broken and useless. My experiences obviously differ, but it may be because I play different than them.
Many of our buffs in Module 2 were actually related to making certain abilities more useful and used. Fixed threat generation in Daring Shout (though possibly not fixed enough). Fixed damage output of Wicked Strike (now my go-to at-will).
And we aren't the only class with these types of power issues. Defining the whole class by the worst powers of that class? Not the best idea.
I do still feel that Reaping Strike is completely wrong for GWF, though, and needs a rebuild.
As an aside: I've dropped Student of the Sword in my Sentinel build to trade up to Improved Ferocious Reaction. That said, I very rarely (even in PvP) get to see less than 50% health anymore with my new build. In fact, PvP is the only time I've ever seen Ferocious Reaction hit. So it might not be a great trade off for me.
I'm actually considering taking my Sentinel back Swordmaster, and my Destroyer Iron Vanguard.
I love reaping strike. it is what keep me alive fighting some meele rangers.
Dovahkiin Gannicus, GWF Sentinel- Enemy Team Guild
Gannicus Destroyer, GWF Destroyer retired
Kate Beckinsale NB DC, Link NB GF
"There is only one way to be a champion..., Never ...ing lose"
Feat Deep Gash: This feat now benefits from your strength and other damage bonuses.
yup everything is helping deep gash, strenght, armor pen, debuffs, critical severity. etc.
Dovahkiin Gannicus, GWF Sentinel- Enemy Team Guild
Gannicus Destroyer, GWF Destroyer retired
Kate Beckinsale NB DC, Link NB GF
"There is only one way to be a champion..., Never ...ing lose"
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pers3phoneBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
You should talk to Stoke and Inna from Essence of Agression. we were practicing 1 x 1s, and they could get me a lot of times with a creative setup and skills. they changed my concept of CW.
Put it on the video next time, I'm curious what can be that creative Other than that, I don't like talking to unknown persons heh.
Put it on the video next time, I'm curious what can be that creative Other than that, I don't like talking to unknown persons heh.
sure, when i meet them on game i will ask for record a few 1 x 1s. but know that GWF is still slightly better. maybe out of 5 duels, i can win like 3 or 4 and lose 1 or 2. but still shows that CW has chances on 1 x 1.
Only thing I noticed is that they were using a lot of repel to fight me.
Dovahkiin Gannicus, GWF Sentinel- Enemy Team Guild
Gannicus Destroyer, GWF Destroyer retired
Kate Beckinsale NB DC, Link NB GF
"There is only one way to be a champion..., Never ...ing lose"
Persephone, he was talking about me even though he spelled my name wrong. I know inna was using repel and I could have as well, but I wanted to do it without. I would say we went about 50/50 on the fights when I used shard on tab, entangling, ray of enfeeblement, and icy rays. If I had used repel to keep him more at a distance then it would have been too easy.
I also saw you comment about GWF damage in PVE, I haven't run with a destroyer or instigator yet who has had 1/2 my damage in PVE. Then again most CWs don't either which is sad. Even some of the best CWs I've run with from my guild and others have 75% of my damage, so I can see how GWFs might do the damage of an average CW, but that does not make them the better DPS class, it just means the CWs are doing something wrong. I am not taking anything away from any of the guys I have run with either, you guys are amazing, do great DPS, and stuff melts!!! It's just depending on play style, rotation, and builds, there are very high damage CW builds that shine well above others.
Persephone, he was talking about me even though he spelled my name wrong. I know inna was using repel and I could have as well, but I wanted to do it without. I would say we went about 50/50 on the fights when I used shard on tab, entangling, ray of enfeeblement, and icy rays. If I had used repel to keep him more at a distance then it would have been too easy.
I also saw you comment about GWF damage in PVE, I haven't run with a destroyer or instigator yet who has had 1/2 my damage in PVE. Then again most CWs don't either which is sad. Even some of the best CWs I've run with from my guild and others have 75% of my damage, so I can see how GWFs might do the damage of an average CW, but that does not make them the better DPS class, it just means the CWs are doing something wrong. I am not taking anything away from any of the guys I have run with either, you guys are amazing, do great DPS, and stuff melts!!! It's just depending on play style, rotation, and builds, there are very high damage CW builds that shine well above others.
I am sorry about spelling your name wrong mate. wasn't intentional. I am bad with memorizing names.
Dovahkiin Gannicus, GWF Sentinel- Enemy Team Guild
Gannicus Destroyer, GWF Destroyer retired
Kate Beckinsale NB DC, Link NB GF
"There is only one way to be a champion..., Never ...ing lose"
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pers3phoneBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Persephone, he was talking about me even though he spelled my name wrong. I know inna was using repel and I could have as well, but I wanted to do it without. I would say we went about 50/50 on the fights when I used shard on tab, entangling, ray of enfeeblement, and icy rays. If I had used repel to keep him more at a distance then it would have been too easy.
I also saw you comment about GWF damage in PVE, I haven't run with a destroyer or instigator yet who has had 1/2 my damage in PVE. Then again most CWs don't either which is sad. Even some of the best CWs I've run with from my guild and others have 75% of my damage, so I can see how GWFs might do the damage of an average CW, but that does not make them the better DPS class, it just means the CWs are doing something wrong. I am not taking anything away from any of the guys I have run with either, you guys are amazing, do great DPS, and stuff melts!!! It's just depending on play style, rotation, and builds, there are very high damage CW builds that shine well above others.
OK.. it goes like this.
You have a few chars. Many if not all your enchants are Rank 10s, Perfects etc. You have also built your chars SPECIFICALLY for one purpose. For example, you can take all AoE feats on the CW if you know that all you will do is PvE, and your damage will grow considerably, yet all of these would basically be almost lost for PvP.
Few however have the luxury to get even a single char at BiS everything, and if they happen to like BOTH PvE and PvE, then they need to find a compromise.
Hence, you see lower numbers from many other CWs... because their spec might not be ideal for PvE. I could name a quite a few feats that are just less than ideal or even do nothing in PvP.
The game also doesn't help a bit with its <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> lack of a dual spec, in 2014.
Now, about GWF damage. I don't like giving names, but you should try to run once with Valiant, it is impressive. To be honest, he is the only person that I think has specced his GWF purely for PvE. He has the same level of gear as you do, so it would be a fair contest. Valiant did 100% more damage than I did in a VT run. It is true, it was my first time doing Val legit on live and I died a few times, and I was the only CW which is messed up with all the mobs on you all the time, less casting and more running. Yet it still doesn't change the fact that he did huge amounts of damage. The only other guy that has very good damage might even be a sent Same level of gear like me, same damage in MC. You have better gear, full PvE spec, so you will most probably do more damage. In the end, a good played and specced GWF can do the same.
As for the PvP section, the Rays/EF/Shard on the head combination is not anything revolutionary. 3 leveled artifacts + spec might allow a CW to finally stack enough survivability to deal with the moments the GWF gets to you, dunno. I hope Gannicus will fraps the next match.
Now, Repel.
This could actually be useful... if it would not be so **** bugged. Out of 5 repels, 3 end up as just mere stuns, no pushback. Has lame damage as well.
But then again... Shard is just as bugged... all the reflections, all the disappearing while under CC and so on. Honorable mention: shard gets stuck in environment.
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katbozejziemiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 856Arc User
Nobody in their right mind used Deep Gash before this update.
Oh, the irony.
And if you don't see anything wrong with roughly 1/3rd of your damage depending on one feat, then you have something wrong, with your head.
you are wrong. I always used and liked it. and what kind of math is that that for you 1/3 of the gwf dps depends uppon his deep gash?
Dovahkiin Gannicus, GWF Sentinel- Enemy Team Guild
Gannicus Destroyer, GWF Destroyer retired
Kate Beckinsale NB DC, Link NB GF
"There is only one way to be a champion..., Never ...ing lose"
" And if you don't see anything wrong with roughly 1/3rd of your damage depending on one feat, then you have something wrong, with your head."
remember that before "third" of our damage (pve) depended on ap build / slam. the class was always unbalanced. then I say we are a car without a steering wheel.
Can't you understand that PvE specced GWF deals as much damage as a same skill/gear CW in dungeons? That the GWF is the top damage dealer in the last dungeon? That the GWF is an invaluable asset to a party, speeding up trash clearing by a huge amount?
How can you say they deal 50% less damage than equally geared/skilled CW? This is just untrue.
Just because a GWF facerolled your DPS doesn't mean that his class is the reason. It is probably because you are the one who is using bad rotation or having bad PvE spec.
Go watch your damage in your videos doing CN, and then go watch NotBizzy's damage while he is doing CN and you will know what i mean lol.
I also saw you comment about GWF damage in PVE, I haven't run with a destroyer or instigator yet who has had 1/2 my damage in PVE. Then again most CWs don't either which is sad. Even some of the best CWs I've run with from my guild and others have 75% of my damage, so I can see how GWFs might do the damage of an average CW, but that does not make them the better DPS class, it just means the CWs are doing something wrong. I am not taking anything away from any of the guys I have run with either, you guys are amazing, do great DPS, and stuff melts!!! It's just depending on play style, rotation, and builds, there are very high damage CW builds that shine well above others.
Just because a GWF facerolled your DPS doesn't mean that his class is the reason. It is probably because you are the one who is using bad rotation or having bad PvE spec.
Go watch your damage in your videos doing CN, and then go watch NotBizzy's damage while he is doing CN and you will know what i mean lol.
Again you? Don't you have some psychiatry thing to go to? You're basically obsessed with me, stalking me all around the forum with lame replies.
Comparing apples to oranges. Bizzy is good, I have nothing bad to say against his gameplay, yet CN damage depends on LOTS of factors, i.e. how many encounters you skipped and so on.
So you posted 2 links right?
Now please explain what is bad in my rotation and what I do wrong, and how Bizzy does things so immensely better, since you're a specialist.
I am all ears.
As for many others that played with me (unlike you...), they invite me back because I provide the goods. You provide loud noises, again and again...
Also in the YT video I've posted you cannot even see the damage lol. Not to mention that I played with full defense/deflect accessories... because I cannot care less if I deal a few millions less, what I want is the loot at the end.
You know, I'd really like to stop replying to you, but then, people might think you're correct, so sadly, there's nothing for me to do but continue to lose precious time answering to your idiocies.
Again you? Don't you have some psychiatry thing to go to? You're basically obsessed with me, stalking me all around the forum with lame replies.
Said the one who is posting "GWF is OP nerf plox" on every part on the forums, i don't need to stalk, you are posting your non sense everywhere mate. ( funny that you have never played a GWF, yet you talk like you know how they work. tsk.)
Comparing apples to oranges. Bizzy is good, I have nothing bad to say against his gameplay, yet CN damage depends on LOTS of factors, i.e. how many encounters you skipped and so on.
So you posted 2 links right?
Now please explain what is bad in my rotation and what I do wrong, and how Bizzy does things so immensely better, since you're a specialist.
I am all ears.
You can ask him for tips, he is more than capable than me to help you improve your damage.
Not to mention that I played with full defense/deflect accessories... because I cannot care less if I deal a few millions less, what I want is the loot at the end.
Bizzy also playing with regen/defense/deflect gear at draco....and since you don't care about DPS then why are you here on GWF forums ( eventhough you have no idea about GWFs since you dont even have one) claiming that an equally geared GWF can out DPS equally geared CW?
Not sure how can your words be credible, since as you said, you don't care about your DPS from first place .
You know, I'd really like to stop replying to you, but then, people might think you're correct, so sadly, there's nothing for me to do but continue to lose precious time answering to your idiocies.
Oh my friend... people can check the videos and see how low your damage is, compared to another CW, using the exact same rotation and gears.
So please, learn how to maximize your class's DPS before you start claiming that GWF can out DPS a CW because that shows nothing but ignorance from your side.
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pers3phoneBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited December 2013
More blabber. I never said GWF is OP and even more so, never said it should be nerfed, AT ALL. I actually said that I don't want to see any nerfs.
Inventing more stuff?
All that you manage with these lame exchanges is that mods will come and delete everything. But since you're fixated with this, what can I say, go on...
More blabber. I never said GWF is OP and even more so, never said it should be nerfed, AT ALL. I actually said that I don't want to see any nerfs.
Inventing more stuff?
All that you manage with these lame exchanges is that mods will come and delete everything. But since you're fixated with this, what can I say, go on...
I think it can be simplified and made more civil. So here's what a third party picked up:
Pers3phone says a sentinel GWF of equal gearing can match a CW in performance, specifically damage output. This is essentially saying that sentinel GWF damage is just fine for PvE content.
Esteena pointed out, and used video evidence, to show that Pers3phone was referencing their own personal damage, which is not the damages observed by other CW's, and thus, GWF do NOT match all CW in performance.
Of course this all breaks down again to builds, player skill and how well they synergize with their encounters, group makeup, etc. Needless to say, it's also mostly personal observances on both parts.
There ARE great CW's out there who can do amazing things that the average player feels is impossible. Just as I've argued since NwO went live that there are great GWF's who can do things that everybody keeps telling me we can't.
The real test, I guess, would be to get the GWF crowd to put the best they know in the same dungeon as the CW crowd. But I honestly feel that most of us, especially most of us GWF's, know where that will end up.
Personal experience? Sentinel GWF's, unless they have equipped tene's or are using some glitch (such as animation cancelling) don't do alot of damage. They can keep up in dungeons and be helpful, but there seems to always be a CW or TR or HR above me in the damage charts. The last two are strikers, and I can understand exactly why they beat me. But when a CW beats me, which happens rather frequently, it rubs me the wrong way.
Now as far as my destroyer GWF, very rarely does a CW beat his damage output (to be honest, I don't usually see TR and HR's beating me, either). But I also go from being completely capable of tanking anything the mobs and boss throw at me without a healer, to needing two or three rez's per dungeon and more than a stacks of potions. I trade my survivability for damage output.
My two GWF's are about as polar opposite in feats and equipment builds as I could possibly make them, just so I could observe the extremes of the classes capabilities. My next will probably be either an instigator or hybrid. There is a LOT of room in the middle to build that GWF that can do decently in both.
"Every adventurer has two things in common: they don't like dying, and they love getting paid. The rest is just semantics." Brecken, famed mercenary of Baldur's Gate
I think it can be simplified and made more civil. So here's what a third party picked up:
Pers3phone says a sentinel GWF of equal gearing can match a CW in performance, specifically damage output. This is essentially saying that sentinel GWF damage is just fine for PvE content.
.....
You cannot make it civil with esteena. That's all. But you can make it civil with mostly anybody else. Some people I like, some I don't, and some dislike me and so on. It is the Internet, and nobody truly cares in the end.
Also, there are but 2 cases of GWFs with good DPS performance that I know of, because the overwhelming majority of GWFs are PvP specced. I have no idea what spec Valiant uses, he has the best DPS out there from all players I've played with, regardless of class.
The other GWF that I play with has a sent, I believe, if he didn't respec. It used to be tene PvP equipped, but he wanted to be more competitive in PvE and switched for radiants and a bleed build. I can ask specifics if needed. With approx. the same gear, we ended up at the same damage dealt in a full MC run, me in front just a bit. Tenes actually made his damage A LOT lower in PvE.
So about my own damage now. I have BiS gear and perfect vorpal, and rank 8s, 2 epic artifacts, one missing. I'm pretty sure my companions are pretty <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, as I didn't upgrade them and didn't care for ideal setup as well, because indeed I do NOT care if I deal 2-3 less mils of damage, as long as I can clear everything legit.
In the video, I wear full defensive gear and use defensive setup that is leaving me without my best AoE, Sudden Storm, and with a severely gimped Conduit of Ice, because it's not on Mastery. Why? Because I want to kill the boss, not end up 1st on damage dealt, and I played with pug friends, not on voicechat and for fun. The DC I've seen the first time that run, lucky us he was competent.
Are there better CWs DPS-wise? Of course there are, never claimed otherwise. I didn't have the luxury to spec completely for either PvE or PvP, because I don't have time for multiple chars with multiple sets of gear, and I intend to never put a penny in this game either.
Anyway. I actually intend on asking my friend for an MC run (he doesn't like CN) and maybe fraps it, because images speak better than words.
Comments
yeah but dps is all gwf brings while cw have the same dps as gwf, cc lock, 2 the best sets which buffs and speed up dungeon,one of the highest 1 target dps ,cw also have the same hp as dps gwf,15 targets caps on daily while gwf 5,the most op daily in game,buff and debuffs mostly your dungeons will go almost 2 faster if u have 2 or more cw in team while if u take gf or gwf instead of cw all they will do is slow u down a lot
I get it now
You want ALL of it. DPS, CC, buffing/debuffing, survivability, PvP supremacy, all.
2 - didactic example of the problem with the class .
Here is the damage of my reaping strike . with 3 stacks of the destroyer , and the other with 0 . to keep this bonus and have decent damage , I need to keep me active within 3 sec despite all the bugs / bad players / lags , and tutti quanti . the charge this Atwill is 2.4 sec and wms sucks now . any doubt about the legitimacy of my claim ?
answering the topic and explaining what I class : not good to ask more damage or more control or change the dungeon . is like saying that a car without a steering wheel to win a race , it is necessary to increase the speed or fix the road . No, first the car needs a wheel.
keep the top damage with gwf / destroyer is extremely complicated today. it seems that all plot against your dps . it seems, given the classic problem of threat class , the instigator has had an easier life in this sense.
Yeah, because those that know to play the class are having a blast and lots of fun in every aspect of the game. And those that... well I'm not finishing the sentence. But there are guides in all the class forums and helpful people. If only the disappointed guys would ask, instead of finding complaints about anything, even after their class was upgraded to awesome.
found your problem.
and yes, GWF that has all that damage also has all that survivability. Class is more than fine atm.
The problem of reasoning "I do not care because I do not use" is that in theory the gwf can do things in practice are impossible or complicated, leaving him short of his actual projection.
Hence one of these "balances" move a piece and the whole class goes down, that it is based on theory and not in practice. for example, the "perfect harmony" between the reaping strike and 3 sec/ destroyer . not to mention the avalanch of steel 4 sec.
increase by 2 secs time the destroyer would not do any harm to the balance between classes.
You should talk to Stoke and Inna from Essence of Agression. we were practicing 1 x 1s, and they could get me a lot of times with a creative setup and skills. they changed my concept of CW.
Gannicus Destroyer, GWF Destroyer retired
Kate Beckinsale NB DC, Link NB GF
"There is only one way to be a champion..., Never ...ing lose"
Congrats you've learned what everyone else learned at level 2 on their way to the sleeping dragon bridge during the tutorial.
Reaping strike is not the defining ability of the GWF. It does not mean that the gwf is weak or bad in anyway.
Deep Gash and student of the sword are in every gwf build regardless of tree, so not really, no. Unless you are talking about pubs that are just plain built wrong in which case it doesn't matter what feats or gear they have, they're probably also using the wrong powers too and are useless no matter what build.
also I don't think there's anything bugged about deep gash. It follows the rules of how crits work, and how bleeds work. it doesn't deal power damage, which may be a bug or just a faulty tool tip description. GWF happens to have a lot of things that benefit from crits.
I would have to say that this is pretty fair. We have a couple abilities (Reaping Strike, Punishing Charge, Battle Fury, Come and Get It) which generally fail to do anything of value. And those are just the three that *I* classify as useless. I'm sure you can find someone out there who loves each one for what it is and does. Just as I'm constantly pointing out the merits of abilities like Daring Shout, Mighty Leap and Avalanche of Steel. I love those abilities and use them very well, but see so many simply say they are broken and useless. My experiences obviously differ, but it may be because I play different than them.
Many of our buffs in Module 2 were actually related to making certain abilities more useful and used. Fixed threat generation in Daring Shout (though possibly not fixed enough). Fixed damage output of Wicked Strike (now my go-to at-will).
And we aren't the only class with these types of power issues. Defining the whole class by the worst powers of that class? Not the best idea.
I do still feel that Reaping Strike is completely wrong for GWF, though, and needs a rebuild.
As an aside: I've dropped Student of the Sword in my Sentinel build to trade up to Improved Ferocious Reaction. That said, I very rarely (even in PvP) get to see less than 50% health anymore with my new build. In fact, PvP is the only time I've ever seen Ferocious Reaction hit. So it might not be a great trade off for me.
I'm actually considering taking my Sentinel back Swordmaster, and my Destroyer Iron Vanguard.
"D*mn wizards," said Morik the Rogue.
Learn what a GWF and GF really are: The History of Fighters
or google translated badly or you are reading what you want. ALL I said was:
1 - The system stack is outdated (took time reaping strike as an example).
ALL the rest was figment of your head.
(with all due respect, was not a post of personal attack)
Feat Deep Gash: This feat now benefits from your strength and other damage bonuses.
Gannicus Destroyer, GWF Destroyer retired
Kate Beckinsale NB DC, Link NB GF
"There is only one way to be a champion..., Never ...ing lose"
Gannicus Destroyer, GWF Destroyer retired
Kate Beckinsale NB DC, Link NB GF
"There is only one way to be a champion..., Never ...ing lose"
Put it on the video next time, I'm curious what can be that creative
Only thing I noticed is that they were using a lot of repel to fight me.
Gannicus Destroyer, GWF Destroyer retired
Kate Beckinsale NB DC, Link NB GF
"There is only one way to be a champion..., Never ...ing lose"
I also saw you comment about GWF damage in PVE, I haven't run with a destroyer or instigator yet who has had 1/2 my damage in PVE. Then again most CWs don't either which is sad. Even some of the best CWs I've run with from my guild and others have 75% of my damage, so I can see how GWFs might do the damage of an average CW, but that does not make them the better DPS class, it just means the CWs are doing something wrong. I am not taking anything away from any of the guys I have run with either, you guys are amazing, do great DPS, and stuff melts!!! It's just depending on play style, rotation, and builds, there are very high damage CW builds that shine well above others.
Gannicus Destroyer, GWF Destroyer retired
Kate Beckinsale NB DC, Link NB GF
"There is only one way to be a champion..., Never ...ing lose"
OK.. it goes like this.
You have a few chars. Many if not all your enchants are Rank 10s, Perfects etc. You have also built your chars SPECIFICALLY for one purpose. For example, you can take all AoE feats on the CW if you know that all you will do is PvE, and your damage will grow considerably, yet all of these would basically be almost lost for PvP.
Few however have the luxury to get even a single char at BiS everything, and if they happen to like BOTH PvE and PvE, then they need to find a compromise.
Hence, you see lower numbers from many other CWs... because their spec might not be ideal for PvE. I could name a quite a few feats that are just less than ideal or even do nothing in PvP.
The game also doesn't help a bit with its <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> lack of a dual spec, in 2014.
Now, about GWF damage. I don't like giving names, but you should try to run once with Valiant, it is impressive. To be honest, he is the only person that I think has specced his GWF purely for PvE. He has the same level of gear as you do, so it would be a fair contest. Valiant did 100% more damage than I did in a VT run. It is true, it was my first time doing Val legit on live and I died a few times, and I was the only CW which is messed up with all the mobs on you all the time, less casting and more running. Yet it still doesn't change the fact that he did huge amounts of damage. The only other guy that has very good damage might even be a sent
As for the PvP section, the Rays/EF/Shard on the head combination is not anything revolutionary. 3 leveled artifacts + spec might allow a CW to finally stack enough survivability to deal with the moments the GWF gets to you, dunno. I hope Gannicus will fraps the next match.
Now, Repel.
This could actually be useful... if it would not be so **** bugged. Out of 5 repels, 3 end up as just mere stuns, no pushback. Has lame damage as well.
But then again... Shard is just as bugged... all the reflections, all the disappearing while under CC and so on. Honorable mention: shard gets stuck in environment.
And if you don't see anything wrong with roughly 1/3rd of your damage depending on one feat, then you have something wrong, with your head.
Gannicus Destroyer, GWF Destroyer retired
Kate Beckinsale NB DC, Link NB GF
"There is only one way to be a champion..., Never ...ing lose"
remember that before "third" of our damage (pve) depended on ap build / slam. the class was always unbalanced. then I say we are a car without a steering wheel.
Just because a GWF facerolled your DPS doesn't mean that his class is the reason. It is probably because you are the one who is using bad rotation or having bad PvE spec.
Go watch your damage in your videos doing CN, and then go watch NotBizzy's damage while he is doing CN and you will know what i mean lol.
http://youtu.be/kK4a3NPfPkk <-- your damage
http://www.twitch.tv/bizzyplusplus/c/3373823 <--- his damage
You both are CWs, but the difference between your DPSes is light years...
Cheers. Hope you learn something! .
Agree 100%.
there anyone else here think that the bleed is a bug?
Again you? Don't you have some psychiatry thing to go to? You're basically obsessed with me, stalking me all around the forum with lame replies.
Comparing apples to oranges. Bizzy is good, I have nothing bad to say against his gameplay, yet CN damage depends on LOTS of factors, i.e. how many encounters you skipped and so on.
So you posted 2 links right?
Now please explain what is bad in my rotation and what I do wrong, and how Bizzy does things so immensely better, since you're a specialist.
I am all ears.
As for many others that played with me (unlike you...), they invite me back because I provide the goods. You provide loud noises, again and again...
Also in the YT video I've posted you cannot even see the damage lol. Not to mention that I played with full defense/deflect accessories... because I cannot care less if I deal a few millions less, what I want is the loot at the end.
You know, I'd really like to stop replying to you, but then, people might think you're correct, so sadly, there's nothing for me to do but continue to lose precious time answering to your idiocies.
Said the one who is posting "GWF is OP nerf plox" on every part on the forums, i don't need to stalk, you are posting your non sense everywhere mate. ( funny that you have never played a GWF, yet you talk like you know how they work. tsk.)
You can ask him for tips, he is more than capable than me to help you improve your damage.
Oh please...
The red and yellow floating numbers are your damage, you didn't know that? o.o
Bizzy also playing with regen/defense/deflect gear at draco....and since you don't care about DPS then why are you here on GWF forums ( eventhough you have no idea about GWFs since you dont even have one) claiming that an equally geared GWF can out DPS equally geared CW?
Not sure how can your words be credible, since as you said, you don't care about your DPS from first place
Oh my friend... people can check the videos and see how low your damage is, compared to another CW, using the exact same rotation and gears.
So please, learn how to maximize your class's DPS before you start claiming that GWF can out DPS a CW because that shows nothing but ignorance from your side.
Inventing more stuff?
All that you manage with these lame exchanges is that mods will come and delete everything. But since you're fixated with this, what can I say, go on...
I think it can be simplified and made more civil. So here's what a third party picked up:
Pers3phone says a sentinel GWF of equal gearing can match a CW in performance, specifically damage output. This is essentially saying that sentinel GWF damage is just fine for PvE content.
Esteena pointed out, and used video evidence, to show that Pers3phone was referencing their own personal damage, which is not the damages observed by other CW's, and thus, GWF do NOT match all CW in performance.
Of course this all breaks down again to builds, player skill and how well they synergize with their encounters, group makeup, etc. Needless to say, it's also mostly personal observances on both parts.
There ARE great CW's out there who can do amazing things that the average player feels is impossible. Just as I've argued since NwO went live that there are great GWF's who can do things that everybody keeps telling me we can't.
The real test, I guess, would be to get the GWF crowd to put the best they know in the same dungeon as the CW crowd. But I honestly feel that most of us, especially most of us GWF's, know where that will end up.
Personal experience? Sentinel GWF's, unless they have equipped tene's or are using some glitch (such as animation cancelling) don't do alot of damage. They can keep up in dungeons and be helpful, but there seems to always be a CW or TR or HR above me in the damage charts. The last two are strikers, and I can understand exactly why they beat me. But when a CW beats me, which happens rather frequently, it rubs me the wrong way.
Now as far as my destroyer GWF, very rarely does a CW beat his damage output (to be honest, I don't usually see TR and HR's beating me, either). But I also go from being completely capable of tanking anything the mobs and boss throw at me without a healer, to needing two or three rez's per dungeon and more than a stacks of potions. I trade my survivability for damage output.
My two GWF's are about as polar opposite in feats and equipment builds as I could possibly make them, just so I could observe the extremes of the classes capabilities. My next will probably be either an instigator or hybrid. There is a LOT of room in the middle to build that GWF that can do decently in both.
"D*mn wizards," said Morik the Rogue.
Learn what a GWF and GF really are: The History of Fighters
You cannot make it civil with esteena. That's all. But you can make it civil with mostly anybody else. Some people I like, some I don't, and some dislike me and so on. It is the Internet, and nobody truly cares in the end.
Also, there are but 2 cases of GWFs with good DPS performance that I know of, because the overwhelming majority of GWFs are PvP specced. I have no idea what spec Valiant uses, he has the best DPS out there from all players I've played with, regardless of class.
The other GWF that I play with has a sent, I believe, if he didn't respec. It used to be tene PvP equipped, but he wanted to be more competitive in PvE and switched for radiants and a bleed build. I can ask specifics if needed. With approx. the same gear, we ended up at the same damage dealt in a full MC run, me in front just a bit. Tenes actually made his damage A LOT lower in PvE.
So about my own damage now. I have BiS gear and perfect vorpal, and rank 8s, 2 epic artifacts, one missing. I'm pretty sure my companions are pretty <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, as I didn't upgrade them and didn't care for ideal setup as well, because indeed I do NOT care if I deal 2-3 less mils of damage, as long as I can clear everything legit.
In the video, I wear full defensive gear and use defensive setup that is leaving me without my best AoE, Sudden Storm, and with a severely gimped Conduit of Ice, because it's not on Mastery. Why? Because I want to kill the boss, not end up 1st on damage dealt, and I played with pug friends, not on voicechat and for fun. The DC I've seen the first time that run, lucky us he was competent.
Are there better CWs DPS-wise? Of course there are, never claimed otherwise. I didn't have the luxury to spec completely for either PvE or PvP, because I don't have time for multiple chars with multiple sets of gear, and I intend to never put a penny in this game either.
Anyway. I actually intend on asking my friend for an MC run (he doesn't like CN) and maybe fraps it, because images speak better than words.