Is the T1 pvp gear battlefield scavenger set still a good way to get started for a new lvl 60? Gear has changed so much since I last played so I want to be sure it's still the way to go for a player who hasn't made much AD yet.
Thanks!
Is the T1 pvp gear battlefield scavenger set still a good way to get started for a new lvl 60? Gear has changed so much since I last played so I want to be sure it's still the way to go for a player who hasn't made much AD yet.
Thanks!
Yes! T1 PVP Gear is still a very viable choice! As long as you get 20% increased Stealth from the 5/5 heroic feat, the additional 20% you get from the gear should be a noticeable increase which will allow you to maintain stealth indefinitely with Gloaming Cut, Bait and Switch and Shadow Strike.
Since I put some points into sneaky stabber I'm having a lots of fun with my rogue, both in pve and pvp. I'm thinking about modifying your build a bit, but some skills descriptions are not clear to me.
Impact Shot - I understand that ranged stun is always nice to have, but is it useful enough to earn its place on pve/pvp hotbar? Also, if its main purpose is to stun, is puting more than 1 points in it is worth it? Maybe those 2 points could be better spent on Path of the Blade, as its only function is dealing damage, so giving it +20% dmg seems lika a good idea.
Wicked Reminder - I was thinking about puting 1 point into this skill. I underestand that 2 and 3 points only increase dmg of this skill, and not the debuff that it aplies on the target? It could be a nice thing to have in case of a need for strictly dps skill loadout.
First Strike - I'm also considering switching Tactics for First Strike, cause I often fight in pvp using Lashing Blade to finish off weakened, escaping enemies. Unfortunately I'm not sure about what exactly is considered "first attack in combat" during a pvp match. Is it only the first attack in match, or after respawn? Or do my character constantly enters and leaves combat during match? Anyone have any experience with this skill?
As for Feats, in don't underestand how exactly does Overrun Critical works. "one of my next attacks"? One of how many next attacks? Is it only posibility of bonus dmg or is it guaranteed? "strikes with 30% of your crit severity"? Does it means that after a critical hit that deals X dmg, one of my next attacks will deal 30% of that X dmg? Or will the next normal attack will just have bonus dmg that equals 30% of my normal bonus dmg on critical hit?
Expert Sneak and Sneak of Shadows from Saboteur feats looks pretty sweet for stealth oriented build, so I'm considering going more into saboteur tree (probably grabbing Ruthless Efficiency while im there ), and because first few feats from Executioner are not looking that great, I'm thinking of taking Underhanded Tactics and Nimble Blade from Scoundrel tree, to increase overall dmg a bit.
Since I put some points into sneaky stabber I'm having a lots of fun with my rogue, both in pve and pvp. I'm thinking about modifying your build a bit, but some skills descriptions are not clear to me.
Impact Shot - I understand that ranged stun is always nice to have, but is it useful enough to earn its place on pve/pvp hotbar? Also, if its main purpose is to stun, is puting more than 1 points in it is worth it? Maybe those 2 points could be better spent on Path of the Blade, as its only function is dealing damage, so giving it +20% dmg seems lika a good idea.
Wicked Reminder - I was thinking about puting 1 point into this skill. I underestand that 2 and 3 points only increase dmg of this skill, and not the debuff that it aplies on the target? It could be a nice thing to have in case of a need for strictly dps skill loadout.
First Strike - I'm also considering switching Tactics for First Strike, cause I often fight in pvp using Lashing Blade to finish off weakened, escaping enemies. Unfortunately I'm not sure about what exactly is considered "first attack in combat" during a pvp match. Is it only the first attack in match, or after respawn? Or do my character constantly enters and leaves combat during match? Anyone have any experience with this skill?
As for Feats, in don't underestand how exactly does Overrun Critical works. "one of my next attacks"? One of how many next attacks? Is it only posibility of bonus dmg or is it guaranteed? "strikes with 30% of your crit severity"? Does it means that after a critical hit that deals X dmg, one of my next attacks will deal 30% of that X dmg? Or will the next normal attack will just have bonus dmg that equals 30% of my normal bonus dmg on critical hit?
Expert Sneak and Sneak of Shadows from Saboteur feats looks pretty sweet for stealth oriented build, so I'm considering going more into saboteur tree (probably grabbing Ruthless Efficiency while im there ), and because first few feats from Executioner are not looking that great, I'm thinking of taking Underhanded Tactics and Nimble Blade from Scoundrel tree, to increase overall dmg a bit.
Will I loose much dps because of not going for Overrun Criticals with a build like that?
Oh, and I also have a question about combat advantage. If I'm stealthed, do i get combat advantage regardless of my position and other players?
@armagawrd - there's a door for all dungeons. You can just walk up to it and enter. You don't have to use the queue.
@unchained - I'm hardly a TR expert, I'll only answer what I can.
impact shot - Currently it is an amazing damage output. If you are going to use it at all, put 3/3 and use it. It's worth it.
First Strike - This is based on first hit in combat. you enter and leave combat all the time. Any time the blue circle shows up under your feet and you grab your weapons, you're in combat. The first strike of that moment of combat will hurt. So FS + LB = lots of pain for who is hit. Then the feature does nothing for you until you leave combat and enter it again.
Overrun critical - you have a 'crit severity' on your character sheet. Down in the stat section. After you crit, your next hit will be boosted by 30% of the total that is in crit severity. Bigger hit, basically. (Those who know more can correct me if I'm wrong)
As for the feats.. I can't open the calc at work, so, good luck?
Hi, first of all thanks for the build.
I used to run a similar one. I basically used my TR just to PvP, it was very fun to play.
I Have the GG set, no weapon enchant, T2 main and offhand. Stats are like, 2800 power, 2700 crit, 2300 armpen with no pet, 10.5k gs.
Got bonus steath from feats. Basically everything is rly similar, except the Gloaming Cut feats, i dont like the skill at all.
I have on ocasions solo'ed a good part of a boss, even yesterday i did the last 5% of MD solo cuz my party got wiped. I've also wondered about a party of permastealth rogues doing dungeons haha, and really, i think its very likely to be viable. Maybe the best way to be able to do it, would be to gather a permastealth community (dunno if its possible to create channels ingame, should be, like in wow, that would help a lot).
My problem and the reason im posting here is, with cloud of steel nerf, i cannot any longer kill consistently on PvP. I dont perform bad, but im not capable of doing nearly half the stuff i used to. My setup is Shadow Strike, Impossible to Catch, and Lashing Blade. Sly Flourish and Duelist's Flurry. For Dailies i use Shocking Execution and Lurker's Assault. Also, my class features are Invisible Infiltrator and Skillful Infiltrator.
Is feated Gloaming Cut that necessary? What are your thoughts on this? Is could of Steel HAMSTER now? Any advice you can give me apart from using Gloaming cut?
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andferne3Member, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 104Bounty Hunter
edited December 2013
Has anyone gotten an entire group of Perma-stealth Rogues to do one yet? I know there has been talk in this thread for some time about trying.
@maxibest If you use your Rogue mainly for PVP, Gloaming Cut is probably not that necessary. Its a great, reliable source of stealth refill in PvE, enabling rogues to achieve perma-stealth (or almost perma-stealth) withoung going for high recovery values, and focusing more on dps instead. Because of more dynamic nature of pvp fights, its not very probable that you will be hitting ppl with Gloaming Cut enough to make it reliable source of stealth meter refills, so if you want to achieve pera-stealth in PvP, INT/recovery based build focused on lowering cooldown of bait&switch and shadow strike would probably be a better idea. Gloaming Cut is still a decent skill, even in PvP, bonus 10% stealth refill on hit from time to time is always a good thing, but it is not that important in PvP as in PvE.
impact shot - Currently it is an amazing damage output. If you are going to use it at all, put 3/3 and use it. It's worth it.
hmm... but is it better than Lashing Blade? I'm always running with s&b and ss, so this leaves me with one slot for something else, usualy Lashing Blade, as it always crit from stealth. Impact shot is probably a must for Whisperknife paragon path, as it is focused more on ranged combat. But for infiltrator... im not sure . Maybe I should take it and drop smoke bomb instead? I've got the feeling I'm gonna need a respec :P
sorry for double post, I was about to edit this into my earlier post, but posted it instead . Can't find option to delete it.
LB has a long cool down for 1 hit. From stealth it's a guranteed crit.
Impact shot has 3 shots. 4 shots if the first is from stealth which also stuns. Crits often. High too. You can easily see a chain of 6 to 8k crits from all 4 shots. I know i've been 100 - 0 on multiple characters because of this ability. Is it worth more than LB? Well, that's still a personal call. Impact is a LOT harder to dodge than LB. It's also ranged, 20' so you dont' have to be on top of them to do it. I'm not sure if the old deft > impact combo of animation still works or not... been playing my HR.
I can't nor would I tell you how to play. What I can offer is that in general, impact has more of a.. 'impact' on a fight, than LB. Faster cool down. The down side is indeed no gurantee crit.. however, if you have a decent crit rate, then the gurantee crit is a crutch that can be lost for more dps.
hi ! is the build nerfed? i tried the same build in throne of idris ,the witches can see my rogue in stealth so as the first summoned skeleton boss.. the which will run up to me and drop a hugh pruple ball
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arcanun20Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 21Arc User
edited December 2013
Hello... im was wondering... is it possible to change my rogue to a perma stealth build? The problem is that i can only reach 14 INT without buffs... is it possible to be a perma stealth? what do i have to do?
hi ! is the build nerfed? i tried the same build in throne of idris ,the witches can see my rogue in stealth so as the first summoned skeleton boss.. the which will run up to me and drop a hugh pruple ball
That's completely normal. Some mobs have auto-target skills that will target you whether you are in stealth or not. Some good examples are a dragon's cone attack, Shadar-kai Witch's purple dazing ball, Idris' purple balls, etc. Some bosses AND mobs can also see us.
Hello... im was wondering... is it possible to change my rogue to a perma stealth build? The problem is that i can only reach 14 INT without buffs... is it possible to be a perma stealth? what do i have to do?
Thanks.
If you use my build you can have maximized stealth, but not "permastealth." People seem to have this misconception that all rogues who enter prolonged stealth is a permastealth build immediately.
x3lade's build allows players to remain in stealth 100% of the time in PVP, and compared to this build I created, I'll have to come out of stealth at some point whether it be PVE or PVP. I designed this build for PVE and solo play purposes, so if you want to PVP using this build, it'll take a whole lot of practice because it'll be hard to time and land Gloaming Cut, which is our main at-will.
Has anyone gotten an entire group of Perma-stealth Rogues to do one yet? I know there has been talk in this thread for some time about trying.
Hey, man. Apologies, I actually haven't set up the runs yet! But I do have a Stealth Rogue channel up and running. Just haven't had the chance to invite anyone yet. If anyone's up for some runs this weekend, me and some guildies would appreciate the company.
Been awfully busy with work, and my play time tends to go to a couple of PVP matches to get Raven Skull for my TR and GF, and completing my new GF build which I'll be posting soon after I make her look a bit more presentable. Indomitable Champion set is dang ugly.
Anyways, if anyone wants to speak to me in-game, just hit me up. Handle is @todesfaelle!
x3lade's build allows players to remain in stealth 100% of the time in PVP, and compared to this build I created, I'll have to come out of stealth at some point whether it be PVE or PVP. I designed this build for PVE and solo play purposes, so if you want to PVP using this build, it'll take a whole lot of practice because it'll be hard to time and land Gloaming Cut, which is our main at-will.
yeah 25%+ rsi is serious buisnes for stealth rotations
before respeccing my masterduelist scoundrel build i could permastealth just fine with him with just improved cunning sneak and master duelist set if i wished so.
Now i respecced him to wisperknife keeping the 20 int roll/high recovery with skulkers (+improved and twilight adept) and the perma stealth action is still there without having gloaming cut.
its true though that those builds have less margin of error to stay 100% stealthed
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rescorlaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 24Arc User
edited January 2014
This may have already been asked in the previous 72 pages of the thread so if it has my apologies. In the first post you say the following:
Dualist Flurry: Incredible in PVE settings and will be our main source of damage whenever facing monsters and bosses.
Gloaming Cut (3/3): This will be our main PVE and PVP at-will.
My question is how can both at-wills be your main at will in PVE? Later on in your guide when you discuss the rotation, you say to use DF to shave some off some of the target's HP but that is it. The rest of the time you use GC and encounter skills.
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
edited January 2014
Use GC on the little things you can kill in one or two hits. This helps keep your stealth bar filled up so you can stay hidden for an extended time period.
Use DF on anything with more hitpoints, like bosses and champions. Ideally, at least on bosses, you can do this during Lurker's Assault. Whether you use LA or not, get used to monitoring your stealth bar during DF so that you can refill it before you break out, either using one of your stealth refilling encounters or by breaking off to whack a few more little critters with GC.
DF is a major source of damage, because of bleed stacks and that flurry of hits on the third strike. But GC is your main at-will attack to use for utility. It's not as high-damaging as DF, but you'll use it more of the time. Does that make sense now?
In certain group boss fights, I have a terrible time with Duelist's Flurry. Specifically, it is those boss fights where the enemy is highly mobile and "teleports (or sprints, or rolls)" around the battlefield. The problem is that there often doesn't seem to be time to get the needed one-two-three strikes in. Needing to avoid telegraphs is an issue that further confounds the problem. Because of this, I have started to slot more burst damage abilities all around for boss fights. I'm relying on gloaming cut (fully feated) for my at-will, and have opted for ItC, SS, and LB, for my encounters. I will hit with GC until almost out of stealth, use LB, pop ItC, and then SS to restart the process. For dailies, I start off the fight using LA until the boss is below half health and then switch to SE.
Basically, I'm trying to maximize moment to moment damage as opposed to trying to get as many Duelist's Flurry progressions in as possible.
Any thoughts?
Notes: Aside from the noted deviations above, I am following the Tiefling stealth build to the letter, including BF Skulker set.
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
edited January 2014
You mention this is during group boss fights, in which case you should be slotting whatever works well for you, since your assigned role in a group is basically the same as any TR: single-target DPS.
Extended stealth doesn't work well with a visible party (or companion), because whatever you're fighting doesn't simply stand around going ??? ... The teleporters teleport, and the AoEers throw around more hurty red patches that burn you out of stealth. Sticking to stealth as much as possible still increases your survivability since you won't be taking many melee hits, but you can't take your sweet time about whittling things down the slow and safe way like you can alone.
Sounds like what you're doing to substitute with your encounters is fine.
Edit: DF isn't necessarily suited to all situations, because an ill-timed root can either cause you to miss (also a problem if you're partied with anyone who knocks your targets away, though one hopes the solution there is to be able to ask them to please don't do that), or to be in mortal peril unable to dodge. I do hate getting in two strikes and then having to move and blow the third, but as my guildies say, whatever damage I can inflict while staying alive is better than none because I died.
Just saw the most recent posts in this thread. Much thanks to Beckylunatic for addressing the questions once more! You rock. Thank you for pointing out that the descriptions in the guide are lacking clarity, Roguish98. I've been trying to find some time to update the guide but haven't had the chance to do so. You guys know how hectic it can be IRL.
But to add additional input to your questions, Gloaming Cut is mainly used for small critters and low HP mobs. It hits harder the lower the enemy's HP are. I don't use DF on mobile mobs as the others can take care of that. Just concentrate on the bulky mobs that take a while to take down. These are the ones that merit the use of DF. For bosses, I slot DF and do my best to extend Stealth as possible in order to make sure that the Bleeds and DF damage will have a 100% uptime on the boss. Most of a TR's damage in PVE comes from Duelist's Flurry. So it's best to maximize its effects and uptime by being undetectable using Stealth, refilling them via BnS and SS, and lastly using Lurker's Assault to ensure 10 seconds of DF that you will not fail to land due to you not needing to worry about being taken out of Stealth.
And lastly, Gloaming Cut will make sure that you do not need to wipe in dungeon bosses. If all else fails, solo the boss using Gloaming Cut, and DF when you have Lurker's Assault up. It'll take some minutes but it's a sure kill if you know the attacks and behaviors of the bosses.
I'll be posting a new stealth-based alternative build within the coming days, preferably today or tomorrow if I get the time to finish the overall draft which is almost done. So for those who have been wanting to play as a Whisperknife, rejoice! I recently cooked up a build for it and I finished my tests a while back. It is meant for Solo PVE, but it can also be used in PVP matches. It doesn't have the burst of the Gloaming Cut build, but this one can inflict insane sustained damage and can do it from range.
I hope you guys enjoy the new build and the new stuff it can offer!
I run a build similar to this one but with some differences. I do not have very high INT so I rely on SS and GC to continuously refill the Stealth bar. I respecced to use Gloaming Cut instead of Sly Flourish after reading this guide, thank you for the good advise!
When soloing, I find that this rotation is really good for high DPS + perma stealth: PoB->Stealth->DF->GC ->LB (when low on stealth and all cooldowns are done)->SS, then repeat. The adds that are not killed outright by PoB have so low health that it is very easy to one-shoot them with GC which means I can stay in stealth as long as I want until only the mini boss remains.
For party dungeons the PoB is less useful, since other players fill the role of damaging the adds sufficiently that they can be killed with one GC hit. There I use WR (boss fight) or ItC (red ground) or SB (defensive crowd control) or BaS (AP gain). My biggest problem is when the whole ground is red since I need to dodge out which hurts both my DPS over time and Stealth regen. I have been playing with deploying a Bait and Switch in the red just to get the AP, but I think I need to practise using ItC instead to remain on the boss to maintain high DPS. Thoughts on that? My preferred dailies are Whirlwind of Blades (multiple enemies) or Lurker's Assault (single target).
Hi. I'm glad the guide somehow helped you, goldmember7. The original non-INT version of this build actually does not have high INT as well so it's still very possible to achieve maximized stealth with just GC + SS + BnS. High INT just makes this build more suitable for PVP. For your group play issues, I suggest you leave the debuffing to the CW's and concentrate on your single target damage whether it be boss fights or not. Us TR's were made for high single target bursts and we can do it seamlessly and with maximized uptime thanks to Stealth.
You may want to try slotting BnS, SS, ITC for encounters and GC + DF for at-wills. The first 2 encounters will make sure that you can stay in Stealth and DF the boss for a continuous and consistent damage output, and ITC will help you eat up red zones in case the boss does a melee range AoE. This will allow you to maximize your uptime against the boss, using DF to stack the bleeds. In PVE, majority of a TR's damage come from DF and we are no exception. I only use Gloaming Cut in boss fights when I need additional seconds of Stealth before one of my Stealth Refill encounters is ready again for use, or when the party is dead and I am able to solo the boss by myself since its HP is below 50%. Soloing will be better at that rate and it's useful to be able to do since you can carry your allies in dungeons regardless of their GS.
Also, Bait and Switch is really nice to have since it generates a LOT of AP, getting us nearer to Lurker's Assault for a 25% damage increase and 10 seconds of Stealth which we can use to pop a continuous flow of DF's on the boss.
I run a build similar to this one but with some differences. I do not have very high INT so I rely on SS and GC to continuously refill the Stealth bar. I respecced to use Gloaming Cut instead of Sly Flourish after reading this guide, thank you for the good advise!
When soloing, I find that this rotation is really good for high DPS + perma stealth: PoB->Stealth->DF->GC ->LB (when low on stealth and all cooldowns are done)->SS, then repeat. The adds that are not killed outright by PoB have so low health that it is very easy to one-shoot them with GC which means I can stay in stealth as long as I want until only the mini boss remains.
For party dungeons the PoB is less useful, since other players fill the role of damaging the adds sufficiently that they can be killed with one GC hit. There I use WR (boss fight) or ItC (red ground) or SB (defensive crowd control) or BaS (AP gain). My biggest problem is when the whole ground is red since I need to dodge out which hurts both my DPS over time and Stealth regen. I have been playing with deploying a Bait and Switch in the red just to get the AP, but I think I need to practise using ItC instead to remain on the boss to maintain high DPS. Thoughts on that? My preferred dailies are Whirlwind of Blades (multiple enemies) or Lurker's Assault (single target).
The persistent AOE and/or high mobility in some bosses (when grouped as opposed to solo) is what lead me to move away from duelist's flurry. As I've mentioned, I have problems getting the necessary full rotation of DF in before I have to dodge out of the red or the boss teleports half way across the battlefield (the first boss in MC is a good example) I started slotting in abilities that would allow me to swoop in, do the most damage per single hit, and be ready to have to start over again. So, SS and BaS to keep stealth up and Lashing Blade to swoop in and deal a heavy blow from stealth. Gloaming Cut as at-will to help with stealth and deal good damage if I can only get one or two hits in. I'll use a combo of LA and SE for dailies. I start to favor SE as the boss gets lower in health, because again, I can do a fair amount of damage in one hit with this daily.
The main caveat is, I haven't done any math, so I have no idea if I am gaining or losing dps here...it just seems intuitive for these situations.
It may also be possible that I just need to practice with DF, maybe my timing just isn't there currently.
Banelorne, are there bosses that you've faced (while grouped) that you find are a good fit for getting full DF's in?
Comments
Thanks!
No prob! Glad it was cleared up for you.
Yes! T1 PVP Gear is still a very viable choice! As long as you get 20% increased Stealth from the 5/5 heroic feat, the additional 20% you get from the gear should be a noticeable increase which will allow you to maintain stealth indefinitely with Gloaming Cut, Bait and Switch and Shadow Strike.
Impact Shot - I understand that ranged stun is always nice to have, but is it useful enough to earn its place on pve/pvp hotbar? Also, if its main purpose is to stun, is puting more than 1 points in it is worth it? Maybe those 2 points could be better spent on Path of the Blade, as its only function is dealing damage, so giving it +20% dmg seems lika a good idea.
Wicked Reminder - I was thinking about puting 1 point into this skill. I underestand that 2 and 3 points only increase dmg of this skill, and not the debuff that it aplies on the target? It could be a nice thing to have in case of a need for strictly dps skill loadout.
First Strike - I'm also considering switching Tactics for First Strike, cause I often fight in pvp using Lashing Blade to finish off weakened, escaping enemies. Unfortunately I'm not sure about what exactly is considered "first attack in combat" during a pvp match. Is it only the first attack in match, or after respawn? Or do my character constantly enters and leaves combat during match? Anyone have any experience with this skill?
As for Feats, in don't underestand how exactly does Overrun Critical works. "one of my next attacks"? One of how many next attacks? Is it only posibility of bonus dmg or is it guaranteed? "strikes with 30% of your crit severity"? Does it means that after a critical hit that deals X dmg, one of my next attacks will deal 30% of that X dmg? Or will the next normal attack will just have bonus dmg that equals 30% of my normal bonus dmg on critical hit?
Expert Sneak and Sneak of Shadows from Saboteur feats looks pretty sweet for stealth oriented build, so I'm considering going more into saboteur tree (probably grabbing Ruthless Efficiency while im there
In short, it should look like this: http://nwcalc.com/tr?b=pa7:4hvcs:9x1b,1xc0505:6uuz1:6uu00:60000&h=0
(maybe with First Strike instead of Tactics)
Will I loose much dps because of not going for Overrun Criticals with a build like that?
Oh, and I also have a question about combat advantage. If I'm stealthed, do i get combat advantage regardless of my position and other players?
@armagawrd - there's a door for all dungeons. You can just walk up to it and enter. You don't have to use the queue.
@unchained - I'm hardly a TR expert, I'll only answer what I can.
impact shot - Currently it is an amazing damage output. If you are going to use it at all, put 3/3 and use it. It's worth it.
First Strike - This is based on first hit in combat. you enter and leave combat all the time. Any time the blue circle shows up under your feet and you grab your weapons, you're in combat. The first strike of that moment of combat will hurt. So FS + LB = lots of pain for who is hit. Then the feature does nothing for you until you leave combat and enter it again.
Overrun critical - you have a 'crit severity' on your character sheet. Down in the stat section. After you crit, your next hit will be boosted by 30% of the total that is in crit severity. Bigger hit, basically. (Those who know more can correct me if I'm wrong)
As for the feats.. I can't open the calc at work, so, good luck?
I used to run a similar one. I basically used my TR just to PvP, it was very fun to play.
I Have the GG set, no weapon enchant, T2 main and offhand. Stats are like, 2800 power, 2700 crit, 2300 armpen with no pet, 10.5k gs.
Got bonus steath from feats. Basically everything is rly similar, except the Gloaming Cut feats, i dont like the skill at all.
I have on ocasions solo'ed a good part of a boss, even yesterday i did the last 5% of MD solo cuz my party got wiped. I've also wondered about a party of permastealth rogues doing dungeons haha, and really, i think its very likely to be viable. Maybe the best way to be able to do it, would be to gather a permastealth community (dunno if its possible to create channels ingame, should be, like in wow, that would help a lot).
My problem and the reason im posting here is, with cloud of steel nerf, i cannot any longer kill consistently on PvP. I dont perform bad, but im not capable of doing nearly half the stuff i used to. My setup is Shadow Strike, Impossible to Catch, and Lashing Blade. Sly Flourish and Duelist's Flurry. For Dailies i use Shocking Execution and Lurker's Assault. Also, my class features are Invisible Infiltrator and Skillful Infiltrator.
Is feated Gloaming Cut that necessary? What are your thoughts on this? Is could of Steel HAMSTER now? Any advice you can give me apart from using Gloaming cut?
sorry for double post, I was about to edit this into my earlier post, but posted it instead
Impact shot has 3 shots. 4 shots if the first is from stealth which also stuns. Crits often. High too. You can easily see a chain of 6 to 8k crits from all 4 shots. I know i've been 100 - 0 on multiple characters because of this ability. Is it worth more than LB? Well, that's still a personal call. Impact is a LOT harder to dodge than LB. It's also ranged, 20' so you dont' have to be on top of them to do it. I'm not sure if the old deft > impact combo of animation still works or not... been playing my HR.
I can't nor would I tell you how to play. What I can offer is that in general, impact has more of a.. 'impact' on a fight, than LB. Faster cool down. The down side is indeed no gurantee crit.. however, if you have a decent crit rate, then the gurantee crit is a crutch that can be lost for more dps.
haha! i yea its enjoyable
Thanks.
That's completely normal. Some mobs have auto-target skills that will target you whether you are in stealth or not. Some good examples are a dragon's cone attack, Shadar-kai Witch's purple dazing ball, Idris' purple balls, etc. Some bosses AND mobs can also see us.
If you use my build you can have maximized stealth, but not "permastealth." People seem to have this misconception that all rogues who enter prolonged stealth is a permastealth build immediately.
x3lade's build allows players to remain in stealth 100% of the time in PVP, and compared to this build I created, I'll have to come out of stealth at some point whether it be PVE or PVP. I designed this build for PVE and solo play purposes, so if you want to PVP using this build, it'll take a whole lot of practice because it'll be hard to time and land Gloaming Cut, which is our main at-will.
Hey, man. Apologies, I actually haven't set up the runs yet! But I do have a Stealth Rogue channel up and running. Just haven't had the chance to invite anyone yet. If anyone's up for some runs this weekend, me and some guildies would appreciate the company.
Been awfully busy with work, and my play time tends to go to a couple of PVP matches to get Raven Skull for my TR and GF, and completing my new GF build which I'll be posting soon after I make her look a bit more presentable.
Anyways, if anyone wants to speak to me in-game, just hit me up. Handle is @todesfaelle!
yeah 25%+ rsi is serious buisnes for stealth rotations
before respeccing my masterduelist scoundrel build i could permastealth just fine with him with just improved cunning sneak and master duelist set if i wished so.
Now i respecced him to wisperknife keeping the 20 int roll/high recovery with skulkers (+improved and twilight adept) and the perma stealth action is still there without having gloaming cut.
its true though that those builds have less margin of error to stay 100% stealthed
Dualist Flurry: Incredible in PVE settings and will be our main source of damage whenever facing monsters and bosses.
Gloaming Cut (3/3): This will be our main PVE and PVP at-will.
My question is how can both at-wills be your main at will in PVE? Later on in your guide when you discuss the rotation, you say to use DF to shave some off some of the target's HP but that is it. The rest of the time you use GC and encounter skills.
Use DF on anything with more hitpoints, like bosses and champions. Ideally, at least on bosses, you can do this during Lurker's Assault. Whether you use LA or not, get used to monitoring your stealth bar during DF so that you can refill it before you break out, either using one of your stealth refilling encounters or by breaking off to whack a few more little critters with GC.
DF is a major source of damage, because of bleed stacks and that flurry of hits on the third strike. But GC is your main at-will attack to use for utility. It's not as high-damaging as DF, but you'll use it more of the time. Does that make sense now?
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Basically, I'm trying to maximize moment to moment damage as opposed to trying to get as many Duelist's Flurry progressions in as possible.
Any thoughts?
Notes: Aside from the noted deviations above, I am following the Tiefling stealth build to the letter, including BF Skulker set.
Extended stealth doesn't work well with a visible party (or companion), because whatever you're fighting doesn't simply stand around going ??? ... The teleporters teleport, and the AoEers throw around more hurty red patches that burn you out of stealth. Sticking to stealth as much as possible still increases your survivability since you won't be taking many melee hits, but you can't take your sweet time about whittling things down the slow and safe way like you can alone.
Sounds like what you're doing to substitute with your encounters is fine.
Edit: DF isn't necessarily suited to all situations, because an ill-timed root can either cause you to miss (also a problem if you're partied with anyone who knocks your targets away, though one hopes the solution there is to be able to ask them to please don't do that), or to be in mortal peril unable to dodge. I do hate getting in two strikes and then having to move and blow the third, but as my guildies say, whatever damage I can inflict while staying alive is better than none because I died.
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But to add additional input to your questions, Gloaming Cut is mainly used for small critters and low HP mobs. It hits harder the lower the enemy's HP are. I don't use DF on mobile mobs as the others can take care of that. Just concentrate on the bulky mobs that take a while to take down. These are the ones that merit the use of DF. For bosses, I slot DF and do my best to extend Stealth as possible in order to make sure that the Bleeds and DF damage will have a 100% uptime on the boss. Most of a TR's damage in PVE comes from Duelist's Flurry. So it's best to maximize its effects and uptime by being undetectable using Stealth, refilling them via BnS and SS, and lastly using Lurker's Assault to ensure 10 seconds of DF that you will not fail to land due to you not needing to worry about being taken out of Stealth.
And lastly, Gloaming Cut will make sure that you do not need to wipe in dungeon bosses. If all else fails, solo the boss using Gloaming Cut, and DF when you have Lurker's Assault up. It'll take some minutes but it's a sure kill if you know the attacks and behaviors of the bosses.
I'll be posting a new stealth-based alternative build within the coming days, preferably today or tomorrow if I get the time to finish the overall draft which is almost done. So for those who have been wanting to play as a Whisperknife, rejoice! I recently cooked up a build for it and I finished my tests a while back. It is meant for Solo PVE, but it can also be used in PVP matches. It doesn't have the burst of the Gloaming Cut build, but this one can inflict insane sustained damage and can do it from range.
I hope you guys enjoy the new build and the new stuff it can offer!
When soloing, I find that this rotation is really good for high DPS + perma stealth: PoB->Stealth->DF->GC ->LB (when low on stealth and all cooldowns are done)->SS, then repeat. The adds that are not killed outright by PoB have so low health that it is very easy to one-shoot them with GC which means I can stay in stealth as long as I want until only the mini boss remains.
For party dungeons the PoB is less useful, since other players fill the role of damaging the adds sufficiently that they can be killed with one GC hit. There I use WR (boss fight) or ItC (red ground) or SB (defensive crowd control) or BaS (AP gain). My biggest problem is when the whole ground is red since I need to dodge out which hurts both my DPS over time and Stealth regen. I have been playing with deploying a Bait and Switch in the red just to get the AP, but I think I need to practise using ItC instead to remain on the boss to maintain high DPS. Thoughts on that? My preferred dailies are Whirlwind of Blades (multiple enemies) or Lurker's Assault (single target).
You may want to try slotting BnS, SS, ITC for encounters and GC + DF for at-wills. The first 2 encounters will make sure that you can stay in Stealth and DF the boss for a continuous and consistent damage output, and ITC will help you eat up red zones in case the boss does a melee range AoE. This will allow you to maximize your uptime against the boss, using DF to stack the bleeds. In PVE, majority of a TR's damage come from DF and we are no exception. I only use Gloaming Cut in boss fights when I need additional seconds of Stealth before one of my Stealth Refill encounters is ready again for use, or when the party is dead and I am able to solo the boss by myself since its HP is below 50%. Soloing will be better at that rate and it's useful to be able to do since you can carry your allies in dungeons regardless of their GS.
Also, Bait and Switch is really nice to have since it generates a LOT of AP, getting us nearer to Lurker's Assault for a 25% damage increase and 10 seconds of Stealth which we can use to pop a continuous flow of DF's on the boss.
The persistent AOE and/or high mobility in some bosses (when grouped as opposed to solo) is what lead me to move away from duelist's flurry. As I've mentioned, I have problems getting the necessary full rotation of DF in before I have to dodge out of the red or the boss teleports half way across the battlefield (the first boss in MC is a good example) I started slotting in abilities that would allow me to swoop in, do the most damage per single hit, and be ready to have to start over again. So, SS and BaS to keep stealth up and Lashing Blade to swoop in and deal a heavy blow from stealth. Gloaming Cut as at-will to help with stealth and deal good damage if I can only get one or two hits in. I'll use a combo of LA and SE for dailies. I start to favor SE as the boss gets lower in health, because again, I can do a fair amount of damage in one hit with this daily.
The main caveat is, I haven't done any math, so I have no idea if I am gaining or losing dps here...it just seems intuitive for these situations.
It may also be possible that I just need to practice with DF, maybe my timing just isn't there currently.
Banelorne, are there bosses that you've faced (while grouped) that you find are a good fit for getting full DF's in?
Thank you!
Roguish