That's debatable... most of the people I run dungeons with have spent well over 2K already and don't PVP at all. I have spent a bit myself. Still the vast majority of casual players still out-weigh PVPers. PVPers may pay more per person, but the user base doesn't is so vastly skewed...
Anyway. I still want an enchantless PVP mode in the mix. Tron it up! All classes same gear and weapons! Then see what's what!
You might wanna try out GW2. You'll be surprised to learn that with no carrot (gear) to chase, things can get quite boring after a while (unless they added more map and game modes since I left). It's not even all *exactly* the same (you get a certain stat budget and a few options, any upgrades are strictly cosmetic).
Back to the topic, I do think more map and game modes (e.g. deathmatch /flag/ etc.) would be extremely beneficial. I'll even be willing to say let them do 'paid tourneys' of 3v3 or 5v5 (maybe even with preset gear) or whatever with rankings and chance to win mass AD or other nifty things, at a net profit for Cryptic. It would be interesting to see how many people would do those (can't be that hard to implement? throw it on the test server)
That's debatable... most of the people I run dungeons with have spent well over 2K already and don't PVP at all. I have spent a bit myself. Still the vast majority of casual players still out-weigh PVPers. PVPers may pay more per person, but the user base doesn't is so vastly skewed...
Anyway. I still want an enchantless PVP mode in the mix. Tron it up! All classes same gear and weapons! Then see what's what!
2k? As in $2000.00? On this game?
Don't even know how to respond to that. Sheesh. Hardly worth it, imho.
The PvP in this game, as has been stated in numerous threads since launch, could do with a good deal of work. 60 tiers, additional maps and objectives would all go a great way toward improving the quality of PvP. It's become a drag as of late and I find lower level PvP to be far more enjoyable overall.
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cbrowne0329Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 293Arc User
Don't even know how to respond to that. Sheesh. Hardly worth it, imho.
The PvP in this game, as has been stated in numerous threads since launch, could do with a good deal of work. 60 tiers, additional maps and objectives would all go a great way toward improving the quality of PvP. It's become a drag as of late and I find lower level PvP to be far more enjoyable overall.
Yeah $2000... a lot more people than you might think have spent that. I balk at that number then I go back and start calculating what I've spent and although it's still not that much, I have to hang my head in shame... and I make 6figs.
PS: I had to edit... just went back through it... I need to start going back out drinking and dating again... it's cheaper!
If you are developer and 80% of your community is asking for more non-PVP content... that means the people who are going to end up giving you money are that 80%. Who would you cater to?
If you went back to 1-2 months post OB you would probably have more ppl who wanted PVP than PVE content.
We also dont have ANY solid stats around the % of people that PVP versus PVE. Alot of PVPers have quit in the last 6 months because of lack of pvp content.
PVP is a major part of the game, and also takes hardly ANY resources to do. Even just open up foundry for pvp "slayer" is very easy. Even creating foundry domination is easy...
Point is, almost zero resources have been spent towards PVP and I understand they had set release schedule from pre beta times, atleast for the first two modules... Now that they are out, I am guessing alot of balance work will be done and Mod 3 I am REALLY hoping will bring new PVP content. Although honestly it may be too little too late.
For it to really be successful and potentially bring ALOT of players back to NW are:
- Matchmaking system is a MUST!
- PVP "rank" system - a way to measure e-peen
- Foundry PVP
- New pvp "rewards" - PVP only items are fine by me
- New Gametypes - CTF/slayer are easy ones
- New pvp maps
- Arena pvp - with "gear rewards for this as well"
- a "duel" system - an easy way to 1v1 someone
- a premade system - an easy way for pre vs pre games.
I would probably keep "ranked" que and "unranked que" as options for those who want to play with friends but not risk their pvp rank... PUG stomps cant complain cause its unranked que...
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tahllolBanned Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited December 2013
This game basically has no PvP its capture the flags for GWF's to be seriously OP'd in. Besides the overall PvP system of most new games actually sucks compared to older games. I.E. Shadowbane was probably the best PvP game ever built.
I think the classes in pvp will become more balanced over time. Either class x and y will be nerfed or class w and z will get a boost. Also, pvp isn't being ignored. Where are the pvp glitches? When is the last time you have seen a pvp bot, or even zone spam in pvp? Yes they are not releasing mad content like in pve, but they are definitely keeping the pvp content they have, very well maintained. I for one appreciate that. I want to see the classes balanced more. I really want to see more and different types of matches beyond "control the node". I really really want to see pvp ranks and leagues. But as it is, I am happy they are keeping straight what they already have.
what worries me the most is that i dont see any plans or even a word from the mods - devs here about pvp future - thoughts
i hope they are preparing something but i need more info or else im gona start to believe they put huge effort in pve only which is not logical since there is a mass of ppl waiting for pvp boost - arenas etc including myself and we will stop playing of course in the future if we dont see something good
Well, I openly admit that I don't pvp much but I'll throw in my 2 cents anyway.
-Add more maps, this is obvious
-Add more modes 1v1 2v2 and other that have been mentioned: Capture the flag etc. This shouldn't be limited to just normal modes, maybe add items that can be used on map in a GvG setting like catapults/cannons whatever. Or massive maps where players have to hunt one another.
-Add more items and not just for Glory, have equipment that can be gained by other means(Kills/matches won/Nodes held etc.)
-Allow Foundry maps
-Create limited time maps with interesting effects like Phantasmal Tower.
-Create a ranking system based off both GS and a toons pvp record.
-Create a queue for premades and pugs separately(I mean how many of the pro players enjoy just stomping some fresh player, I doubt most of them do)
Just give us something simple for now, like /duel. It would occupy the PvPers enough until mod3 when hopefully some new PvP modes will come
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jeffro9000Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 121Bounty Hunter
edited December 2013
Everybody has great suggestions! Here are some other ideas that should be relatively easy for devs to implement:
Somebody mentioned guild vs guild gg. That should be fairly easy to implement, and that would be great!
Additionally, why not just open up the gg map to be played anytime? Get rid of phase 1 (yawn), make gg continuously run in phase 2 so that you can gather stuff while in queue/pvp all day (the catapults could reset after each pvp match/instance, etc.). Make entering FD and DK based on tokens you get from points earned in pvp/pve. That way, even the corsairs could do DK after getting steamrolled in PVP.
Also this thread is specifically for PvP. Not to debate whether PvE or PvP should be the devs main concern.
I realize this comment was not directed to me, but I also find it amusing when vegetarians chime in on how to make a good cheeseburger.
PvP players are a solid group of paying customers who are growing tired of the same two maps and simple modes. Creating a Capture The Flag PvP game and having a contest for Foundry designers to build the best PvP map would energize the player base tremendously, IMHO.
Yeah $2000... a lot more people than you might think have spent that. I balk at that number then I go back and start calculating what I've spent and although it's still not that much, I have to hang my head in shame... and I make 6figs.
PS: I had to edit... just went back through it... I need to start going back out drinking and dating again... it's cheaper!
2 large is a nice vacation. I make a good salary myself but I've got a family and bills to pay. Wow. It's all I could do to bring myself to purchase the founder's pack.
I really think that all that Zen does seperate the gamers for which Neverwinter is nearly a vocation from those of us who play when we can.
I becomes very apparent in a PvP match at how uneven the playing field has gotten. In the lower tiers there is a slight difference between, say, a 31 and a 39; slightly better skills and access to higher powers and feats.
But the difference between a fresh 60 or even those in PvP gear with Lessers and Rank 4s and 5s versus those in Perfects and Rank 9s and 10s is stark. Two TRs, say, going toe to toe and one can hardly dent the other.
Before anything else is added to PvP I think 60 tiers are paramount. This has been a beaten drum for months now though and I'm thinking we won't get much satisfaction from the Devs.
Haven't read the thread, but a ladder system would serve the game very well in my eyes. Make it an ELO-system or something similar and match teams based on their rating.
As a new player, I'm a strong believer in pvp development for MMO's because it helps keep the game alive and keeps people interested. That being said, this particular game has a great deal of potential for pvp. I'll additionally sign with the above posters in asking for more pvp modes and larger pvp maps. (Wonder how CTF would do with this game......)
I'm also going to strongly request to be able to make PVP maps in The Foundry. Honestly, if you guys would make the modes we could hold it up with great maps.
This game has DESTROYED PvP and especially healers. The developers are making the same dumb mistake as everyone else did with MMOs, all killing no healing. Pre-patch I could actually hold a point 1v1 for more than 2 seconds, now, NO CHANCE!
p.s. GWFs, please redo their paragon path! You have made them stupidly OP by giving them the GFs abilities. Endgame GWFs were already annoying enough with the high health regen from gear. Also, you ruined the GFs by giving away their abilities.
End rant...
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cbrowne0329Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 293Arc User
edited December 2013
My DC can hold a point against most GWFs and GFs 1v1 (except against uber-tanks etc).... a crit CW with Icy Rays is a whole other story... they destroy my cleric. The most annoying thing right now is the grasping roots from HRs. No wonder teams always target mine first.
I think giving the GWF Frontline Surge was a HUGE mistake, and giving the GF the GWF Crescendo etc was pointless.... in PVP anyway. Both work pretty well in PVE. Gives GWFs something to do other than struggle to find parties, thus taking out their slights in PVP.
I still think it's pretty balanced in PVP if all are geared about the same... that's why they need to fix the matching system. Too many teams are lopsided. More often than not you get newbies(or low GS) vs vets (with crazy GS and/or enchants)...
I do want to see one other mode in the system. 1 class of each if pre-made!
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cbrowne0329Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 293Arc User
You might wanna try out GW2. You'll be surprised to learn that with no carrot (gear) to chase, things can get quite boring after a while (unless they added more map and game modes since I left). It's not even all *exactly* the same (you get a certain stat budget and a few options, any upgrades are strictly cosmetic).
Back to the topic, I do think more map and game modes (e.g. deathmatch /flag/ etc.) would be extremely beneficial. I'll even be willing to say let them do 'paid tourneys' of 3v3 or 5v5 (maybe even with preset gear) or whatever with rankings and chance to win mass AD or other nifty things, at a net profit for Cryptic. It would be interesting to see how many people would do those (can't be that hard to implement? throw it on the test server)
I played GW2 for months. Hated the game period. It is not a good game overall (I'm biased against many eastern style MMOs anyway, hate the 'graphic style and weirdo themes' so I've never really gotten into them). I've played other PVP games that had no specials enhancements or everyone in the game could get powerups etc from the field. FUN! and required skill!
A perfect example of each type of system would be Halo VS COD.
Halo everyone started with same base weapons and could pick them up in match. It took learning the wepaons and was competitive. Their was no ROTFLstomping, UNLESS you were a skilled player.
COD rewarded players for playing all the time unlocking weapon sets and powers that new players had no access to. Thus a player who had been playing for weeks could walk up to someone with Juggernaut or some other ish... receive a precise headshot and not die, while spamming the other player to death.
I hated COD with a passion for that simple fact. If I zoom in and shoot you in the face 3 times and you run up on me and one shot me, there is no balance... and that doesn't require any skill.
You were rewarded because you have more time than player B who maybe MUCH better, but doesn't have the time to play as much.
Eventually the COD system won out... and the reason I don't play competitive FPS any more, unless it's head shot = kill.
PVP in NW is the same. Standing there and taking a beating against a newbie and then killing him in a hit or two is stupid. A simple fix is to rank by GS (but they need to equate Perfects, etc into GS) or simply offer other modes.
I hated COD with a passion for that simple fact. If I zoom in and shoot you in the face 3 times and you run up on me and one shot me, there is no balance... and that doesn't require any skill.
You were rewarded because you have more time than player B who maybe MUCH better, but doesn't have the time to play as much.
See I think a middle ground would be the ideal.
To take this analogy, if a veteran player is shot in the face and has a CHANCE to live because he farmed XP etc... Then sure why not?
But shot 3x because he is more damage immune or w.e to headshots... That is bull and also why I hated playing COD. Im sorry but in RL if a .50 cal sniper hits you anywhere on your body, itll either tear the limb off, or youll just see mist of blood as the remains. No human being wearing any amount of current armor available will let you withstand a .50 almost anywhere on your body.
Take that to THIS game.
If youve played pvp 1-59 (not counting "twinks") even the "geared" players dont walk up and 1 shot players. The issue comes in at 60 (and now low levers due to the ancient weapons with enchant slots) with enchants.
When you look at a vorpal enchant, it deals 50% more damage on a crit. 50%! Thats seriously a dumb amount of damage boost.
So its really just the enchants that are what is making the game seem not balanced.
Same with other stats like regen. People that run with 1500+ regen will seem MUCH more tanky than a player just hitting 60 with none.
I think some of that should be present, but maybe not to the extent it is now. Part of that, I think, is certain builds and the other major part is with enchants.
All that said. All that really needs to happen is a "pvp rank" system with a matchmaking pairing system so people who have more gear can almost guarantee to be a higher pvp rank and the players that are skilled ontop of gear will be even higher, so you wont see a fresh 60 with 6k GS coming up against a player with R8s+ and Perfects.
While I think a version of GS matchmaking could work, I would MUCH rather see just a flat PVP rank system with a true matchmaking system.
I mean It wouldnt be that difficult to start "pvp levels" when you win, get XP. Lose, and you lose XP. Levels START at level 60, as an extension of lvl 60. heck, even keep the current XP to level system you have (around 4-5 wins for a level correct?) Then bracket pvp levels like they do now, 1-10, 11-20 etc. The only difference would be the ability to lose xp if you lose a match.
Done.
Worried about quitters? Make them lose DOUBLE xp for losing. This gives players incentive to stay in a match even to watch it end, since they dont lose as much xp.
Worried about quitters? Make them lose DOUBLE xp for losing. This gives players incentive to stay in a match even to watch it end, since they dont lose as much xp.
Problem solved.
No, because then you'd have the d-bag griefer PVPers who would deliberately leave matches so that they can fall in XP and then join the lower level brackets in order to one-shot the lowbie players there.
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xhritMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
No, because then you'd have the d-bag griefer PVPers who would deliberately leave matches so that they can fall in XP and then join the lower level brackets in order to one-shot the lowbie players there.
This would be ideal... pull from their existing glory and let them have a negative balance. Problem is you would STILL get the grievers who don't care about glory and just want to torment people.
Could make it after a certain negative balance they can't play for a week orso... but even then they would grief... play a few real matches.. .grief some more.
There is no real way to punish people who want to grief players.
Punishing leavers would lead to camping at home base to get the match over asap. There would be absolutely no gain for the ones interested in honest PVP.
Punishing leavers would lead to camping at home base to get the match over asap. There would be absolutely no gain for the ones interested in honest PVP.
True, but removing the benefit to leaving matches would be a start, though. The current system basically rewards them for leaving and requeueing until they get a match they're likely to win while punishing players who stick it out for less favorable match-ups with low or even no rewards.
No, because then you'd have the d-bag griefer PVPers who would deliberately leave matches so that they can fall in XP and then join the lower level brackets in order to one-shot the lowbie players there.
Well this type of system worked well for many other matchmaking games. If its not easy to gain rank why would people give that up easily?
Also I would wager that the skilled pvpers dont care about griefing, that would be more rare than not AND its still 10000x better than it is now.
PVPers in this game MOST of the time dont care about griefing but actually getting good matches.
TLDR: This wont be a problem.
If you REALLY wanna solve this and are concerned, players CAN drop level, but only get dropped to the lowest level of their bracket.
So a PVP lvl 40 who loses a match, CANT drop to lvl 39 bracket. This way a higher level player CANT change his bracket.
THE BIGGER concern I have about this type of system is that with population what it is, I would be worried about how many people would get to a high level in PVP, causing the highest geared/skilled players to have no chance of playing new people.
That said, I think STILL allowing a "non-rated" Que would be a fabulous option for that in which its the exact same que systm today.
So a person has TWO options:
1) Ranked Que: Que against others who are similar in skill/gear in PVP
2) Non-ranked QUe: against ANYONE who is qued.
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cbrowne0329Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 293Arc User
edited December 2013
I still am hoping that if you pug, pre-made groups aren't allowed. I'm tired of seeing 2 Clerics / 2 Wizzies groups... Yeah you guys know who you are. Once in a while is one thing... every single time over the last few days? Come on son! And I have only been on the receiving end of that ish once... most of the time I end up in there group... and they are STACKED!
True, but removing the benefit to leaving matches would be a start, though. The current system basically rewards them for leaving and requeueing until they get a match they're likely to win while punishing players who stick it out for less favorable match-ups with low or even no rewards.
It's a fight you can't win. The day they make losing more rewarding bots will take over everything. Until then, the glory grinder will search for a lopsided win and leave/sabotage any other match. I can't see any punishment that would truly change it, the system itself needs a complete overhaul.
Let me chime a tad, why I hope they DON'T add a large PvP element to the game!
1.Attitude. In ever other MMO I've played the PvP set had a overwhelmingly large standoffish, juvenile, braggert, elitist element. They felt better becuase they had done X in a arena setting and felt that every other player should make way for whatever they wished, other play modes be damned. They felt becuase they want it the Dev's should fill that need..not tomorrow..NOW! Some other game element need a tweek or fix? FORGET IT! We want our shinies NOW! PvP is a never ending rabbit hole of Dev resource dedication.
2. Linking. Every other MMO the Dev's felt they had to link things to other play modes, why this is I don't know, unless they felt that PvP had to be propped up for some reason or other. What I mean by linking: crafters can't just craft and avoid aspects of PvP that may set their teeth on edge. Want to just craft and leave Pvping to those that like it? No no no, can't have that! There has to be some drop or currency that you can only get through PvPing that is integral to your recipe...hold your nose crafter and wade in..you are FORCED to do PvP that you hate becuase it's a bound item (or worse, the drop is so warped by AH dynamics that the crafter can never obtain it through alternate methods). This also plays through raids/dungeons/skirmishs, want the key/item/access to area X? Grind your teeth and endure that PvP you despise so you can get it.
3. Content burn. Old time PvPers are a elitist crowd, they, in search for the new shiny! Would never want to bother with old and obsolete gear/content! They are demanding ever more content for them to experience, ever more spiffier gear, most MMO turn to a "season" to handle this phenom, T1,T2,T3 etc. Who wants that old clunky T1 from season 1 when I can grind for T3? Want to know who would just LOVE to even qualify for T1? The new player. What happens: The old players have moved on from T1, the new player can NEVER "catch-up" to the old timer, they stumble through old stuff (most often with very few matchs to be had becuase of a lack of fellow newbs). This phenom isn't so prevailent in the craft/dungeoning area, it's more social, they can "catch-up" in crafting, the dungeons are often revisited due to guild events etc.
4.Emplimentation/griefing. Other MMO have handled PvP in a meriad of ways, some have taken the open world model, this is a license for open griefing model. Others have taken the arena route, while less griefing happens, it still happens, with this model you basicly had to sign up for your allotment of grief, you signed up for it, oh well. Others still have taken a instance driven route, this seems the least negative impact to PvE IMO, and if they have to do the PvP thing I up vote that.
By all this you may take it that I hate PvP, I don't. I have engaged in it, and have had pleasant results in other MMO, but becuase of the above mentioned reasons I grew a bit soured on elements of it. The only thing I truely worry about is PvP take over. Other MMO that began catering to PvP became nothing more than E-sport machines and let the PvE enviroment (which I love) rot. Please!!! Don't let that happen!
I'll say again we need a ranking system/league/ladder. Match making should not be based on GS but on WINS. There could be two ques: one for ranked teams (league matches), another for unranked teams. To even join a League Team you would need a certain individual score that is the sum of your total pvp score to date. Even for premades.
pvp is big in any mmo. It cannot be long ignored without affecting the success of the game. It is not being ignored now, mind you, but we need ranked matches and queing. Give us just that which will really go a long way to balancing things out, as a first step. Work on the rest later. Please.
Solution: deserter debuffs that stack. You leave your first game of the day? 5min debuff. You leave a game again same day? 30min debuff. After some third or whatever offense for the week, you're banned for the rest of the week. And so on.
I'd also say afk reporting, but people will abuse the system. Instead have the game kick you for getting 0 points with the same deserter effects. ANYONE should be able to at least score an assist or point cap even in a lopsided game.
I can see that this game is PvE oriented, and I'm not asking for massive retuning of things for PvP. But at least SOMETHING to combat the overwhelming quitter attitude I keep seeing would be nice.
Comments
You might wanna try out GW2. You'll be surprised to learn that with no carrot (gear) to chase, things can get quite boring after a while (unless they added more map and game modes since I left). It's not even all *exactly* the same (you get a certain stat budget and a few options, any upgrades are strictly cosmetic).
Back to the topic, I do think more map and game modes (e.g. deathmatch /flag/ etc.) would be extremely beneficial. I'll even be willing to say let them do 'paid tourneys' of 3v3 or 5v5 (maybe even with preset gear) or whatever with rankings and chance to win mass AD or other nifty things, at a net profit for Cryptic. It would be interesting to see how many people would do those (can't be that hard to implement? throw it on the test server)
2k? As in $2000.00? On this game?
Don't even know how to respond to that. Sheesh. Hardly worth it, imho.
The PvP in this game, as has been stated in numerous threads since launch, could do with a good deal of work. 60 tiers, additional maps and objectives would all go a great way toward improving the quality of PvP. It's become a drag as of late and I find lower level PvP to be far more enjoyable overall.
Yeah $2000... a lot more people than you might think have spent that. I balk at that number then I go back and start calculating what I've spent and although it's still not that much, I have to hang my head in shame... and I make 6figs.
PS: I had to edit... just went back through it... I need to start going back out drinking and dating again... it's cheaper!
If you went back to 1-2 months post OB you would probably have more ppl who wanted PVP than PVE content.
We also dont have ANY solid stats around the % of people that PVP versus PVE. Alot of PVPers have quit in the last 6 months because of lack of pvp content.
PVP is a major part of the game, and also takes hardly ANY resources to do. Even just open up foundry for pvp "slayer" is very easy. Even creating foundry domination is easy...
Point is, almost zero resources have been spent towards PVP and I understand they had set release schedule from pre beta times, atleast for the first two modules... Now that they are out, I am guessing alot of balance work will be done and Mod 3 I am REALLY hoping will bring new PVP content. Although honestly it may be too little too late.
For it to really be successful and potentially bring ALOT of players back to NW are:
- Matchmaking system is a MUST!
- PVP "rank" system - a way to measure e-peen
- Foundry PVP
- New pvp "rewards" - PVP only items are fine by me
- New Gametypes - CTF/slayer are easy ones
- New pvp maps
- Arena pvp - with "gear rewards for this as well"
- a "duel" system - an easy way to 1v1 someone
- a premade system - an easy way for pre vs pre games.
I would probably keep "ranked" que and "unranked que" as options for those who want to play with friends but not risk their pvp rank... PUG stomps cant complain cause its unranked que...
Jugger Conq GF
....
i hope they are preparing something but i need more info or else im gona start to believe they put huge effort in pve only which is not logical since there is a mass of ppl waiting for pvp boost - arenas etc including myself and we will stop playing of course in the future if we dont see something good
-Add more maps, this is obvious
-Add more modes 1v1 2v2 and other that have been mentioned: Capture the flag etc. This shouldn't be limited to just normal modes, maybe add items that can be used on map in a GvG setting like catapults/cannons whatever. Or massive maps where players have to hunt one another.
-Add more items and not just for Glory, have equipment that can be gained by other means(Kills/matches won/Nodes held etc.)
-Allow Foundry maps
-Create limited time maps with interesting effects like Phantasmal Tower.
-Create a ranking system based off both GS and a toons pvp record.
-Create a queue for premades and pugs separately(I mean how many of the pro players enjoy just stomping some fresh player, I doubt most of them do)
Just give us something simple for now, like /duel. It would occupy the PvPers enough until mod3 when hopefully some new PvP modes will come
Somebody mentioned guild vs guild gg. That should be fairly easy to implement, and that would be great!
Additionally, why not just open up the gg map to be played anytime? Get rid of phase 1 (yawn), make gg continuously run in phase 2 so that you can gather stuff while in queue/pvp all day (the catapults could reset after each pvp match/instance, etc.). Make entering FD and DK based on tokens you get from points earned in pvp/pve. That way, even the corsairs could do DK after getting steamrolled in PVP.
Jeffrina Jones, GWF
Jeffrodo, CW
Jeffrogue, Rog
Jelfro, GF
Jeffrogolas Do'Urden, HR
Jeffrodo Jaggins, SW
I realize this comment was not directed to me, but I also find it amusing when vegetarians chime in on how to make a good cheeseburger.
PvP players are a solid group of paying customers who are growing tired of the same two maps and simple modes. Creating a Capture The Flag PvP game and having a contest for Foundry designers to build the best PvP map would energize the player base tremendously, IMHO.
2 large is a nice vacation. I make a good salary myself but I've got a family and bills to pay. Wow. It's all I could do to bring myself to purchase the founder's pack.
I really think that all that Zen does seperate the gamers for which Neverwinter is nearly a vocation from those of us who play when we can.
I becomes very apparent in a PvP match at how uneven the playing field has gotten. In the lower tiers there is a slight difference between, say, a 31 and a 39; slightly better skills and access to higher powers and feats.
But the difference between a fresh 60 or even those in PvP gear with Lessers and Rank 4s and 5s versus those in Perfects and Rank 9s and 10s is stark. Two TRs, say, going toe to toe and one can hardly dent the other.
Before anything else is added to PvP I think 60 tiers are paramount. This has been a beaten drum for months now though and I'm thinking we won't get much satisfaction from the Devs.
I'm also going to strongly request to be able to make PVP maps in The Foundry. Honestly, if you guys would make the modes we could hold it up with great maps.
p.s. GWFs, please redo their paragon path! You have made them stupidly OP by giving them the GFs abilities. Endgame GWFs were already annoying enough with the high health regen from gear. Also, you ruined the GFs by giving away their abilities.
End rant...
I think giving the GWF Frontline Surge was a HUGE mistake, and giving the GF the GWF Crescendo etc was pointless.... in PVP anyway. Both work pretty well in PVE. Gives GWFs something to do other than struggle to find parties, thus taking out their slights in PVP.
I still think it's pretty balanced in PVP if all are geared about the same... that's why they need to fix the matching system. Too many teams are lopsided. More often than not you get newbies(or low GS) vs vets (with crazy GS and/or enchants)...
I do want to see one other mode in the system. 1 class of each if pre-made!
I played GW2 for months. Hated the game period. It is not a good game overall (I'm biased against many eastern style MMOs anyway, hate the 'graphic style and weirdo themes' so I've never really gotten into them). I've played other PVP games that had no specials enhancements or everyone in the game could get powerups etc from the field. FUN! and required skill!
A perfect example of each type of system would be Halo VS COD.
Halo everyone started with same base weapons and could pick them up in match. It took learning the wepaons and was competitive. Their was no ROTFLstomping, UNLESS you were a skilled player.
COD rewarded players for playing all the time unlocking weapon sets and powers that new players had no access to. Thus a player who had been playing for weeks could walk up to someone with Juggernaut or some other ish... receive a precise headshot and not die, while spamming the other player to death.
I hated COD with a passion for that simple fact. If I zoom in and shoot you in the face 3 times and you run up on me and one shot me, there is no balance... and that doesn't require any skill.
You were rewarded because you have more time than player B who maybe MUCH better, but doesn't have the time to play as much.
Eventually the COD system won out... and the reason I don't play competitive FPS any more, unless it's head shot = kill.
PVP in NW is the same. Standing there and taking a beating against a newbie and then killing him in a hit or two is stupid. A simple fix is to rank by GS (but they need to equate Perfects, etc into GS) or simply offer other modes.
See I think a middle ground would be the ideal.
To take this analogy, if a veteran player is shot in the face and has a CHANCE to live because he farmed XP etc... Then sure why not?
But shot 3x because he is more damage immune or w.e to headshots... That is bull and also why I hated playing COD. Im sorry but in RL if a .50 cal sniper hits you anywhere on your body, itll either tear the limb off, or youll just see mist of blood as the remains. No human being wearing any amount of current armor available will let you withstand a .50 almost anywhere on your body.
Take that to THIS game.
If youve played pvp 1-59 (not counting "twinks") even the "geared" players dont walk up and 1 shot players. The issue comes in at 60 (and now low levers due to the ancient weapons with enchant slots) with enchants.
When you look at a vorpal enchant, it deals 50% more damage on a crit. 50%! Thats seriously a dumb amount of damage boost.
So its really just the enchants that are what is making the game seem not balanced.
Same with other stats like regen. People that run with 1500+ regen will seem MUCH more tanky than a player just hitting 60 with none.
I think some of that should be present, but maybe not to the extent it is now. Part of that, I think, is certain builds and the other major part is with enchants.
All that said. All that really needs to happen is a "pvp rank" system with a matchmaking pairing system so people who have more gear can almost guarantee to be a higher pvp rank and the players that are skilled ontop of gear will be even higher, so you wont see a fresh 60 with 6k GS coming up against a player with R8s+ and Perfects.
While I think a version of GS matchmaking could work, I would MUCH rather see just a flat PVP rank system with a true matchmaking system.
I mean It wouldnt be that difficult to start "pvp levels" when you win, get XP. Lose, and you lose XP. Levels START at level 60, as an extension of lvl 60. heck, even keep the current XP to level system you have (around 4-5 wins for a level correct?) Then bracket pvp levels like they do now, 1-10, 11-20 etc. The only difference would be the ability to lose xp if you lose a match.
Done.
Worried about quitters? Make them lose DOUBLE xp for losing. This gives players incentive to stay in a match even to watch it end, since they dont lose as much xp.
Problem solved.
No, because then you'd have the d-bag griefer PVPers who would deliberately leave matches so that they can fall in XP and then join the lower level brackets in order to one-shot the lowbie players there.
They need to lose glory if they quit, not exp.
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This would be ideal... pull from their existing glory and let them have a negative balance. Problem is you would STILL get the grievers who don't care about glory and just want to torment people.
Could make it after a certain negative balance they can't play for a week orso... but even then they would grief... play a few real matches.. .grief some more.
There is no real way to punish people who want to grief players.
True, but removing the benefit to leaving matches would be a start, though. The current system basically rewards them for leaving and requeueing until they get a match they're likely to win while punishing players who stick it out for less favorable match-ups with low or even no rewards.
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Well this type of system worked well for many other matchmaking games. If its not easy to gain rank why would people give that up easily?
Also I would wager that the skilled pvpers dont care about griefing, that would be more rare than not AND its still 10000x better than it is now.
PVPers in this game MOST of the time dont care about griefing but actually getting good matches.
TLDR: This wont be a problem.
If you REALLY wanna solve this and are concerned, players CAN drop level, but only get dropped to the lowest level of their bracket.
So a PVP lvl 40 who loses a match, CANT drop to lvl 39 bracket. This way a higher level player CANT change his bracket.
THE BIGGER concern I have about this type of system is that with population what it is, I would be worried about how many people would get to a high level in PVP, causing the highest geared/skilled players to have no chance of playing new people.
That said, I think STILL allowing a "non-rated" Que would be a fabulous option for that in which its the exact same que systm today.
So a person has TWO options:
1) Ranked Que: Que against others who are similar in skill/gear in PVP
2) Non-ranked QUe: against ANYONE who is qued.
It's a fight you can't win. The day they make losing more rewarding bots will take over everything. Until then, the glory grinder will search for a lopsided win and leave/sabotage any other match. I can't see any punishment that would truly change it, the system itself needs a complete overhaul.
1.Attitude. In ever other MMO I've played the PvP set had a overwhelmingly large standoffish, juvenile, braggert, elitist element. They felt better becuase they had done X in a arena setting and felt that every other player should make way for whatever they wished, other play modes be damned. They felt becuase they want it the Dev's should fill that need..not tomorrow..NOW! Some other game element need a tweek or fix? FORGET IT! We want our shinies NOW! PvP is a never ending rabbit hole of Dev resource dedication.
2. Linking. Every other MMO the Dev's felt they had to link things to other play modes, why this is I don't know, unless they felt that PvP had to be propped up for some reason or other. What I mean by linking: crafters can't just craft and avoid aspects of PvP that may set their teeth on edge. Want to just craft and leave Pvping to those that like it? No no no, can't have that! There has to be some drop or currency that you can only get through PvPing that is integral to your recipe...hold your nose crafter and wade in..you are FORCED to do PvP that you hate becuase it's a bound item (or worse, the drop is so warped by AH dynamics that the crafter can never obtain it through alternate methods). This also plays through raids/dungeons/skirmishs, want the key/item/access to area X? Grind your teeth and endure that PvP you despise so you can get it.
3. Content burn. Old time PvPers are a elitist crowd, they, in search for the new shiny! Would never want to bother with old and obsolete gear/content! They are demanding ever more content for them to experience, ever more spiffier gear, most MMO turn to a "season" to handle this phenom, T1,T2,T3 etc. Who wants that old clunky T1 from season 1 when I can grind for T3? Want to know who would just LOVE to even qualify for T1? The new player. What happens: The old players have moved on from T1, the new player can NEVER "catch-up" to the old timer, they stumble through old stuff (most often with very few matchs to be had becuase of a lack of fellow newbs). This phenom isn't so prevailent in the craft/dungeoning area, it's more social, they can "catch-up" in crafting, the dungeons are often revisited due to guild events etc.
4.Emplimentation/griefing. Other MMO have handled PvP in a meriad of ways, some have taken the open world model, this is a license for open griefing model. Others have taken the arena route, while less griefing happens, it still happens, with this model you basicly had to sign up for your allotment of grief, you signed up for it, oh well. Others still have taken a instance driven route, this seems the least negative impact to PvE IMO, and if they have to do the PvP thing I up vote that.
By all this you may take it that I hate PvP, I don't. I have engaged in it, and have had pleasant results in other MMO, but becuase of the above mentioned reasons I grew a bit soured on elements of it. The only thing I truely worry about is PvP take over. Other MMO that began catering to PvP became nothing more than E-sport machines and let the PvE enviroment (which I love) rot. Please!!! Don't let that happen!
pvp is big in any mmo. It cannot be long ignored without affecting the success of the game. It is not being ignored now, mind you, but we need ranked matches and queing. Give us just that which will really go a long way to balancing things out, as a first step. Work on the rest later. Please.
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I'd also say afk reporting, but people will abuse the system. Instead have the game kick you for getting 0 points with the same deserter effects. ANYONE should be able to at least score an assist or point cap even in a lopsided game.
I can see that this game is PvE oriented, and I'm not asking for massive retuning of things for PvP. But at least SOMETHING to combat the overwhelming quitter attitude I keep seeing would be nice.