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A Beginners Guide to Successful PvP by Alysin Chains
munkey81
Member Posts: 1,322 Arc User
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Hi everyone, my name is Alysin Chains. Most of you that pvp often have seen me around, or know me personally. To everyone else, well met!
PvP is my absolute passion. I love everything about it. The competitive nature of it is what will always draw me to it, in any mmo. That being said, PvP is difficult, it is frustrating, it is rewarding. PvP is the best training tool mmo players have to better themselves at there game. Because you are fighting a thinking, adapting opponent, unlike that of set rotation NPC's. Generally speaking, most successful PvP'rs will generally be in the top for PvE as well, because of this fact. However, Pvp is not for everyone and that is ok.
I am writing this guide to help Beginners mostly, but everyone who PvPs should be able to get atleast something out of it, if nothing more then seeing PvP from another persons perspective.
So lets get started.
I am not going to go into how to gear your character for PvP, or specific tactics on fighting certain class's as those two in themselves would require there own specific thread. A helpful hint for stats though: Defense, Deflect, and Regeneration are the absolute most important stats in PvP in this game. Having none, or very little of the above, will get you killed very quickly, even against lesser geared players. Generally speaking the only players that can get away with little into these 3 stats, are the players with very high end gear, and even those players will have difficulty with equally geared players because of this.
PvP in this game is made up of 5 players, Versus 5 players. There are two different maps, with the same objective. Control 3 nodes, to gain points to reach the goal of 1000 points. Each team will start out in a campfire on opposing sides of the map.
Common tactics and strats of Premades
Many premades will start out the match with all 5 players rushing the center Node. The idea behind this is controlling the middle point is generally the most contested, and capping it off the bat is going to give your team a head start on points, and a good position in the battlefield. After the middle node is capped, 1 player will fall back to cap your home base, and the rest of the team will push to the enemies node. With a good team, and achieving victory in this strat, will be very hard for the opposing team(without coordination), to come back from this initial battle. Many matches with this start, end up at 1000-0.
Having 4 players rush the center node, and 1 player capping home base is also very common, and successful. One downfall of this however, is if the enemy team is using the above strat, you are now outnumbered by 1, which can lead to disaster right off the bat, thus putting your team on the defensive to gain control of your home point.
Having 5 players rush the center, with 1 continuing past, to contest the enemies home node is also very common with well geared/coordinated premade teams. Also very hard for the opposing team to come back from, without proper coordination and team work.
Node control, and defense
Once a node is capped, your team will start gaining points. The more nodes you have captured, the faster you will gain points.
That being said. Common mistakes beginners make, is NOT fighting on the actual points. If atleast 1 player of each team, is standing on a point, then the point is considered "contested", and no team will gain points from it. This is key to victory. Capturing, and maintaining control of nodes.
Another common, costly mistake, is people forget that the PvP we have, is 5 vs 5. Not 1 vs 5. One single person, cannot possibly maintain all 3 points by themselves, no matter how well geared they are. Working together as a team is going to bring you success in PvP. Being a lone ranger and going for your own personal stats on the leaderboard to be the cool guy with the most kills, is generally going to end up causing your team to lose.
The biggest mistake I see new players make. GWF Sentinel builds are hands down the hardest class to kill, in a 1 vs 1 scenario. Even a lesser geared GWF with decent skill, is very hard to take down 1 vs 1. A GWF will generally be back capping your home base, in order to gain control of there home point, most new players will have there entire team(generally), help fight the GWF. Meanwhile, the other 2 nodes are capped and the enemy team is quickly gaining points. A Sent build GWF can withstand a lot of punishment, and having more people attack them, only makes them stronger and use Unstoppable that much more. Not to mention, by the time the GWF has tricked the entire team to fight just him, his team is more then likely on there way to help him, and when they do come, if/when you lose, your team is now stuck with zero nodes capped, all spawning at roughly the same time, and the entire enemy team waiting at your spawn point.
It is best to have 1 single person contest any given point, depending on the match. What you need to remember is you are fighting a thinking human being, that will adapt to what you are doing. So PvP matches, and strats are ever changing.
Node Contention
With the right gear, and skill, any class in this game can be a good choice for holding a point, or capping a new point by themselves.
Generally speaking, your Sent build GWFs are #1 choice for node contention and defense, coming in second is going to be your TR/GF. GWF's are an obvious choice because of there ability to survive without any heals. TR's because of the ability to evade entire enemy teams by use of trickery and stealth, and GF's because of there natural class mechanics of being able to block incoming damage, as well as put out some serious damage, and knock enemies off the nodes, thus continuing to gain points from the node not being contested. Well played and geared CW's are also very good choices, as well as DC's. That being said, the DC and CW need to have a good amount of skill, and decent gear to be able to do this effectively.
Depending on how the match is playing out. In most good premade vs premade, both home points will continue to be contested(thus not gaining any points for either team), and a constant battle for the middle point. That being said, depending on where you personally are in the match, it might require you to become Cannon Fodder. What I mean by this, is basically running onto a specific point by yourself, no matter how many enemies are there, to put the node in contention, and survive as long as possible. Remember, when the point is contested, no team is gaining points from this. I have done matches where I am well over 30 kills, and other matches where I am under 5, with 15-20 deaths. The stats look bad, but that isn't the point as earlier discussed. Contending points and stopping the enemy team from gaining any points is the ultimate goal. Even if you run in and die immediately(which more often then not happens at this point), you are stopping the enemy from gaining points from holding that point, which is the ultimate goal. If a point is constantly contested, it will force the enemy team to bring back up to cap the point. This is a strategy commonly used in a well played premade with 2 very coordinated teams.
Team make-up
When Q'ing for PvP, it randomly groups people together. Generally it will try and put atleast 1 type of each class in a match, however more often then not you have multiples of certain types. You need to adjust fire so to speak and do the best with what you have.
What you need to remember, is there are certain group builds that are going to absolutely dominate in PvP. Arguably, 3 Sent GWFs, 2 GF's all skilled, all well geared, is going to roll just about any team you throw at them. In this case, just do your best, and continue working together.
General hints and tips
What you have to remember, is PvP is frustrating!..sometimes. You are going to die in PvP, sometimes a lot, and constantly. There are zero penalties for dying in PvP, so getting upset over dying is just silly. If being killed by another player makes you upset, then you probably shouldn't PvP, as you are probably just going to end up breaking something you own, and becoming even more upset.
MountsWhile mounted, if you are knocked off, it will Prone you. When you are proned, you 99.9% of the time will take FULL damage from every ability you are being hit with. Your defenses for the most part mean absolutely nothing when you are proned. Dismount early when approaching an enemy, and absolutely do NOT sit on your mount while capping a point.
More Advanced Tips from Trace(Essence of Aggression)
Okay, here are some beyond-the-basics strategies that we like using in EoA.
1) Continual back-cap. Who did you send to back cap? Stealth TR? GWF? Are they going down? A few options you can use...
a) Send the DC back to drop an A. Shield, toss a quick healing word, and run back to mid.
b) Send your next back-capper (TR, GWF, or GF are good choices), to pour in when the other is going down. Rinse and repeat.
c) Send the CW or TR to the far point to help finish off the enemy, then have them return mid.
2) Set up 2v1s. Is a Sent on your point contesting against a TR? Or a GF? Send a DPS back to help finish them off. Get back to mid in time to help. CWs are great at this because they can attack from a distance. Speaking of which...
3) Come off point or die! As a CW, I love 1v1ing melees against a point we currently control. They either have to come off point, or continually take damage or be Repelled off point. Some Sents can withstand the damage and cap, so you may need to get on the point before they cap it.
4) Set yourself up for success! Can your CW kill the DC the fastest? Is your TR great at taking down GFs? Is someone on the enemy team not good against your Sentinel? Do your best to set up your team against the other team on your terms.
I might ad that being in Teamspeak makes these strategies much easier.
Have fun guys. PvP is fun. If you are getting upset over it then its probably time to take a break and do something else, before your anger gets the best of you.
Remember that not everyone is as geared as you, or more geared then you, or not as skilled as you, or better then you. If you are that oh so awesome uber geared guy in a pug match and your team is terrible, calmly give them some pointers. "Hey guys, lets try and fight on the points".
This is a game, its peoples release from real life, where they should be allowed to play however they want, and have a good time doing it.
There is nothing that aggravates me more then someone who belittles someone because they are losing.
For those of you who have actually read this entire thread of mine, I thank you.
Please feel free to add whatever ideas you may have that will be "helpful to the rest of our community.
If your only reason to post here is because you want to correct me on grammar or tell me how my ideas on PvP are bad, and I should /insert random flame,.. then there is no reason to post here. I wrote this because I enjoy PvP, and I want other people to enjoy it too
I am a very successful hard core PvP'r, and I wanted to share some of the knowledge I have that grants me success.
I did my best to keep it short, and make it easy to read and the most informative I could. I could honestly write a novel on PvP of so many different scenarios, ideas, hints tips etc etc. But the best way to learn PvP is just continue to do it, find your own groove and playstyle and absolutely have fun doing it!
Ever want to contact me in game and ask any questions or even give me some new hints that you find helpful, I'm all about it, or just to chat.
> Alysin Chains@munkey81 Mindflayer 60 TR
Cheers!
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Comments
- JailBreak (in development)
Seconded. If more folks had this sort of attitude towards PvP, it would be much more popular than it already is.
Thx guys
I hope more people read it and feel the same. I would love to see more people playing pvp, and commenting on here as well. I would like to here some tips and hints from other people out there
At lower levels, the gear scores are much more even, and you learn to play your class from the ground up.
For those of you who don't normally enjoy PvP, please give it a look. I've never been a big PvP fan in any game I've ever played, but I find it to be one of the most enjoyable aspects of this game. Keep in mind too that you benefit your character on the PvE side by playing PvP, what with the dailies and gear that you can earn by playing.
Agreed. Plus its a great way of leveling. PvP is excellent experience when your working your way to 60.
If you are in a PUG and are going to meet a premade, just leave the match. There is no penelaty for doing so and fighting most premades is just no fun at all in a PUG.
This rule apply to all opposng groups if you are a support specced cleric in a PUG, because you will only score at least some points if your team wins.
Please..if you are new and reading this. Do not listen to this guy.
Just because it is a premade does not mean they are a good one.
Just because they ARE a good premade, doesn't mean you have to leave.
Generally in my premades against pugs, we end up just 1 vs 1'ing the rest of the match, we let them cap a point, or 2, everyone gets glory, and we all get practice in 1 vs 1.
Please....don't be like this guy
You try and paint a picture that is far removed from reality. There isnt any point staying in a game when you face a premade. The only people qing pvp as premades are trolls with bis gear looking to stroke their epeen one shotting new 60s still wearing green. The fact you put that scoreboard in your sig like it is some kind of achievement proves my point.
Get your head out of the clouds.
Oh, and ive come to this conclusion after playing 100's of pvp games.
There should be a q for premades and a q for solo players, and ne'er the twain should meet.
There should be. Totally agree. Problem is, there isn't. That being said, I don't think quitting is the answer. You can often learn more getting your ***-kicked by a well-coordinated team than you can by winning. Personally, I can't stand the quitters, as you go from low chance to no chance once a couple of your teammates drop. I get it once it becomes painfully clear that you're not going to collect any reward from the match, but I often see quitters bailing out in the first couple minutes. There's no good reason to do that ever.
As for trash-talking, I make it a rule not to participate. I've played highly political PvP MMOs before, and nobody really wins obnoxious arguments in area chat or flame wars on forums. There is no achievement for being a Board Warrior. I actually used to keep Zone chat turned off at all times, but I recently switched it back on once I realized that people would occasionally shout a legitimate question or at least a fun comment at me in Zone.
When it comes to Premades vs. Non in PvP, I've seen it all over the place. It's true that not all premades are particularly good (I can say that of my own guild's premades much of the time because we just grab whomever needs to do their daily on whatever alt; it's rarely any calculated attempt at building the best team possible, and it's rarely a full 5 anyway), but all other things being equal, the premade should win due to better communication. I would like to see more PvP queue options to help provide a more enjoyable experience for players with characters of widely varying GS.
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
Of my guild, Essence of Aggression. I believe we only have maybe 3 or 4 people with actual BiS.
We Q as a premade because we are in the same guild, and we enjoy playing together..because we are all friends. Every single person in my guild is down to earth good peoples. Calling us Trolls because we form a party of friends is going full HAMSTER...good job on that kid
Again. Just because an enemy team is a premade, doesn't mean they are a good one. The point of staying in the match is..well, to possibly win? Ya know, work for something to achieve a common goal?
Having an attitude like this is truly pathetic. I feel sorry for people like you, and you will never get better at anything, because you are unwilling to even put fourth an effort.
Its gross that you stained this good topic with your terrible attitude, hopefully no one actually listens to you.
Secondly:
Fighting premades with a pug team is part of the challenge of PVP and it can be fun. It is unfortunate that this game is full of people who rather make QQ posts and threads instead of facing the challenge. Seriously, players ask for nerfs and advertise they leave PVP because they lack the courage to face the challenge and want everything made easy for them. *shrugs*
There is no point to whine for nerfs because you win some and loose some. Crying just makes a player look like a crier and no one, especially the devs, should take them seriously. Have a nice day!:)
Exactly.
For us, in the times that we know people are going to quit, we let them cap points. We are not a$$holes here to make people cry. We just want to pvp together as a guild and have some fun in some challenging matches(we do lose), as well as every other premade.
We usually end up doing the 1 vs 1's and have a blast doing it, and so does the other team. They get plenty of glory for capping points, as well as we let them chose which one of us to 1 vs 1.
Its an alternative to not being able to chose a premade only Q...so Leaving because you see a premade is downright silly.
I don't know one guild on Mindflayer that runs premades, that doesn't allow 1 vs 1. The only time we, or they, decide to finish the match with killing them is when they try and gank us while were watching the 1 vs 1 fights, or talking HAMSTER in /zone...
A lot of people will find this guide very helpful.
Fox Stevenson - Sandblast
Oh Wonder - Without You
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
- Dylan Thomas
Alysin and I are in the same guild. We chat almost daily in Teamspeak and PVP quite often. You want to know something that may shock you? We really don't like 1000-0 scores or something similar. It's boring. There's no challenge. There's no teamwork. There's no excitement of pulling off a close win. What do we love? Good games and great matches. It's come to the point that sometimes we don't back-cap and don't rush mid just so the other team will stay and put up a good fight.
And we're not BiS, by any means, but we have good gear, love to PVP, and communicate well. Alysin and I, along with most members of our guild, are F2P. I think only one or two now have Greater Tenebrous. Most just run T2 armor with rank 5-7s.
I agree, however, that there should be different queues for premades and pugs. We could avoid sometimes seven to eight matches in a row where one or two leave in the first 30 seconds.
Join Essence of Aggression: PVP-ing Hard Since Beta!
You were the TR with a very big mouth in PvP and being arrogant like a !@^&$%. (your signature proves this point actually) By saying you're oh so pro and good during a match. Bit ironic that you post this, while you are one of the persons that make PvP a bad place. You have 0,0 respect and sportsmanship to others.
Next to that, you are a TR. Last thing we need to do is listening to TR's, thinking that 3/4 Impact Shots a 8-10k dmg and than Lashing Blade is really balanced and saying that people just QQ.
Everyone that knows me, and plays against me on a daily basis will absolutely disagree with you. I don't have a big mouth, nor am I ever arrogant. I lose like everyone else and am the first to admit it.
My signature is something I am proud of, as it is not easy to get 47 kills in one single 5 vs 5 Domination match.
I never once said that I was pro. I feel I am among the elite and many would agree. There is no irony in my post. I enjoy PvP, and do very well at it. I made this as a guide to help newer players, something not on the to do list of arrogant !HAMSTER% like you put it.
I am absolutely 100% a good sport in pvp...always, its how I live my life, and I don't change it all of a sudden when I play a game.
More then likely I have killed you, possibly repeatedly...and humped your lifeless body a little bit with my mount. <--lol Which is why you come on here so angry, instead of offering some advice or hints and tips for other people.
This thread is not for you, your cup has obviously runneth over and you are beyond help. Instead chose to flame. None of which is needed here. Thanks though, bei bei meow
Edit: Oops! I know who you are, yup..you've been one shot by me many times. Still no reason to flame me and be upset. If you would have read through my guide you would have realized that you are obviously the type of person not suited for PvP. Because dying makes you angry. Do us all a favor and not Q anymore, you will be happier I promise
Alysin: Are you sure you don't belong in CD? I love pig humping. Its hilarious. The way he shakes his head just cracks me up.
Back on topic:
Pug vs Premade can be very Disheartening. I know from my own personal experience from a pug perspective it can get extremely frustrating for players to either get the same group or run into premade after premade.
I would like to stress: Most of us are pretty decent people, I know I have a reputation for the Trash talk. But consider this: Both Shrugs and I enjoy Trash talking others, but usually it will come about after someone else initiates.
Following on the Premade matches that are boring. 1000-0 matches are ridiculously boring, as someone who runs with guildmates / people on my friends list in pvp on an extremely regular occasion we hate 1000-0 matches just as much as everyone else.
The close matches, the matches that go for 28 minutes +, the matches where you need to change and adapt your strategy every 30 seconds to win, those are the great matches.
For Beginners / pugs. If you come up against a premade and you want 1v1s always ask 10/10 times I can guarentee you they will ask you who you would like to 1v1.
19.9k PvP Control Wizard
<Complaints Department>
There actually is an optimal strategy, but very very few people do it. This strategy can be obtained by calculating something called a minimax score.
If you do not know what that means, then you should never chastise others on their strategic choices: the strategies that many players insist on using are terrible.
Not really sure who this is directed? But..
I posted some of the most "common" strategies. I also stated PvP is revolving, and constantly needing to be changed.
That being said, please elaborate on your minimax score. I have not heard of it, or possibly I have, and call it something differant.
This is why I made this thread in the first place
Minimax is a rule use in game theory to guarantee the best possible score. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimax.
You can apply this to neverwinter pvp by calculating the incoming score for every combination of bubbles {(grey grey grey) =0:0,(blue grey grey)=1:0,(blue grey red)=1:1, ....} Optimize for the highest ratios. This leads to a simple priority: do not let any bubble turn solid red.
This one is really nice suggestion. Thanks for advice
About Premades vs PUG I am not much agree. I do the follow, I leave very rare because if I have good PUG team we have a chance to win or to be close to win vs premade and this is fun. But if there is really worst PUG team there is no sense to stay with them. If points goes 800 vs 100-200 then PUG team is very worst and the lost team will get no Glory so no point to stay. But if we lose because bad strategy and we have nice PVP then all is ok.
In other way where 1 from PUG leave mean 4 PUG vs Premade, in most ways this is Zero Glory reward so the player will just lose him time.
Have a nice day :cool:
I'll be the dwarf wizard.
Every person with lower GS asks these types of questions. But guess what, there will almost always be people with better gear. Last night we had a rough run against a premade. Guess who was solo-contesting a point against a Regen-Sent GWF stacked with 7 Greater Tenebrous? This 13.2k CW here. I died a lot, but capped the point and held it more than I expected to by running Repel, Shield, and Ice Storm. I view like this: This guy out-gears me. How can adapt and overcome?
No gear would level the playing field, but take away the desire to strive to make your character better. So many players run PVE to gear up for PVP. I sure do. And I love it. PVP is the most challenging aspect of this game and it's great fun.
Join Essence of Aggression: PVP-ing Hard Since Beta!
That said, I think that Cryptic needs (and I am sure they will do) pay much more attention to their PvP by adding more maps and different scenarios. 2 almost identical maps with SO small distances between nodes encourage rushing and stacking, which is really frustrating for the side that doesn't start out well.
My hope is that they make bigger maps (since banning 110% mounts is unfair for people that paid for them).
If someone newest 60 go to do PVE or PVP with green items - this is someone that do not think and play just to click on kbd/mouse.
Is so easy and cheap to get 8k++ GS with blue gear from AH (100-500 AD per item...). In right build this is near enough to go vs most premade with 11k GS and all will be about skills on both players.
If the player get 1-2 days in arena he can get all epic items from there.
So newest 60 must only to think and to make his one strategy.
_________
BWT @munkey81
About your theory for GWF Sentinel build, Sentinel have one good side - this one that he do not care much about big crits on him. But I prefer Destroyer build because is most fun and in good team always have a healer
And about: For moment I can't get your side that Deflect and Regeneration are good stats. Defense is always needed but in good quality not too much.
And you must do not forget that the best "Defense" strategy always is "Attack" strategy.
I'm really, really hoping the latter is purely a joke, since honestly, teabagging, trashtalking etc is about as far from good sportsmanship as it's possible to get. As soon as it becomes more about humiliating rather than winning, 'sportsmanship' is out the window.
Losing I can handle. Dying I can handle. Going up against premades I can handle (I'll lose, but again, I can handle that).
Dying and then having someone shout LOL UR ALL NOOBS HAHAHAHHA repeatedly while dancing around on their ribbon pig or similar? That makes me think about leaving or sitting it out in the spawn.