Okay, here are some beyond-the-basics strategies that we like using in EoA.
1) Continual back-cap. Who did you send to back cap? Stealth TR? GWF? Are they going down? A few options you can use...
a) Send the DC back to drop an A. Shield, toss a quick healing word, and run back to mid.
b) Send your next back-capper (TR, GWF, or GF are good choices), to pour in when the other is going down. Rinse and repeat.
c) Send the CW or TR to the far point to help finish off the enemy, then have them return mid.
2) Set up 2v1s. Is a Sent on your point contesting against a TR? Or a GF? Send a DPS back to help finish them off. Get back to mid in time to help. CWs are great at this because they can attack from a distance. Speaking of which...
3) Come off point or die! As a CW, I love 1v1ing melees against a point we currently control. They either have to come off point, or continually take damage or be Repelled off point. Some Sents can withstand the damage and cap, so you may need to get on the point before they cap it.
4) Set yourself up for success! Can your CW kill the DC the fastest? Is your TR great at taking down GFs? Is someone on the enemy team not good against your Sentinel? Do your best to set up your team against the other team on your terms.
I might ad that being in Teamspeak makes these strategies much easier.
Thx for Sharing Trace. I added it to the main post.
If anyone else has some well written tips they would like to share, I will add them as well into the main post. This is the whole reason I wrote this up, in the hopes of gathering a large compendium of knowledge from players in the Community to help new and seasoned players.
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degraafinationMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited October 2013
Here's an example of the kind of matches we love in our guild. If you don't have time to watch it, it's PMvsPM with The Silent Blade. The final score was around 1000 to 950. It's never perfect, it's never pretty, but it's fast, furious, and fun! Notice the continual point capping.
After the match Netherstorm and I both sent tells to each other communicating how well the other team played and how much fun it was. Good, good stuff!
As a DC, i would like to add something in.
1.Beware of your team DC if he looks isolated, a TR may hidden beside him and waiting to 1 shot him.
2.As a range attacker/skiller, sometimes please search for your team DC as they may stay at top of you (pillar and bridge).
a)For the pillar, TR CAN tele beside him and finish him with high burst dps and daze, if your team DC is not a very tankful person, you will have at least 15 secs 4v5 (running back to mid and time to respawn), yup 1 person missing and this is a MAJOR disadvantage for you, you know what i mean, 1 team with AS and control/dps support can totally harass or kill another team before their DC reappears again.
b)For the other map, stand further away from your team DC while capping at mid as there are blind spots for DC to heal/kill from top if you are hiding under your DC. Tell your DC to aware if anyone from opposite team suspected going top to knock your DC down or kill him. (Although this is DC's job, but pvp=teamwork, so kindly remind him if you see so)
3.NEVER wait for a DC to heal you if you are near to death in battle, run to a potion instead. DC have no high burst heal to mantain your HP, they usually slotted AS and two control/dps skill. Those guys pvp much know what i mean.
That's all, anything to add or to correct me is welcome...
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astariadodfMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
The biggest mistake I see new players make. GWF Sentinel builds are hands down the hardest class to kill, in a 1 vs 1 scenario. Even a lesser geared GWF with decent skill, is very hard to take down 1 vs 1. A GWF will generally be back capping your home base, in order to gain control of there home point, most new players will have there entire team(generally), help fight the GWF. Meanwhile, the other 2 nodes are capped and the enemy team is quickly gaining points. A Sent build GWF can withstand a lot of punishment, and having more people attack them, only makes them stronger and use Unstoppable that much more. Not to mention, by the time the GWF has tricked the entire team to fight just him, his team is more then likely on there way to help him, and when they do come, if/when you lose, your team is now stuck with zero nodes capped, all spawning at roughly the same time, and the entire enemy team waiting at your spawn point.
...
Cheers!
Lol I saw this and reminded me of the match today that I had 1v2 sent GWF (Im destroyer GWF) and won. They had good gear, but I have learned to survive as a destroyer with skills. Many of the sentinel GWF have little skills. I qq when I fight one of those with all the crutches - Vorpal/Tene Soulforged etc.
Appreciate you being calm about PvP, but what is getting my panties in a bunch since the server meld is the amount of exploiters infesting matches.
I wont go into all the forms, but really, those are the matches that make me rage. The community should not be passive/accepting about cheaters.
On the subject of PVP tips:
What is the blue bar just below the health bar on a GF? what does it mean? Should the GF be attacked when the blue bar is high, or low?
Also, above it was mentioned that if a GWF is being attacked, the GWF can launch Unstoppable more frequently. How does this work exactly?
Its his Shield, as he Blocks with the shield the blue bar goes down so its how many hits it can take/block in a fight...As for attacking the whole time, tho till its up the blue bar he/she will block all the comming attacks except u attack from behind
Also, above it was mentioned that if a GWF is being attacked, the GWF can launch Unstoppable more frequently. How does this work exactly?
I'm not an expert by any means on the specifics of GWF's. Someone else please correct me if I am wrong. But I believe its because of the Determination. They gain Determination when being attacked, the more they are attacked, the faster it builds, thus giving them Unstoppable faster, if they are able to survive the dmg they are taking. Which is why a well played correctly geared Sent GWF is very hard to take down if they are not repeatedly stun locked.
Appreciate you being calm about PvP, but what is getting my panties in a bunch since the server meld is the amount of exploiters infesting matches.
Nothing you personally can really do about it man.
I see exploits and cheats quite often while PvP'ing, and I'm sure there are many more that I don't see. But, its not going to change the way I PvP in anyway. If someone feels the need to cheat to beat me then so be it /shrug. If anything its just going to make you a better player.
My advice to you duder, is do what I do. When you catch someone cheating, just smile in RL, and keep playing. No point in saying anything to them, or calling him/her out as a cheater in /zone. Its not worth it, and generally it will just backfire on you anyway.
Keep playing. When you kill them..Imagine how much they must be raging in RL when they still die after cheating
Cheers!
0
beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
I'm not an expert by any means on the specifics of GWF's. Someone else please correct me if I am wrong. But I believe its because of the Determination. They gain Determination when being attacked, the more they are attacked, the faster it builds, thus giving them Unstoppable faster, if they are able to survive the dmg they are taking. Which is why a well played correctly geared Sent GWF is very hard to take down if they are not repeatedly stun locked.
Exactly. GWFs gobble up damage and spit it back at whatever is attacking them.
degraafinationMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited October 2013
So, here are my thoughts on Sentinel's capping points.
1) Only one person contests the point with the Sentinel.
2) Ideally, that person is a GF, CW or good TR. (to control the node)
3) If the GF or CW cannot take them down 1v1, then when a DPS is free (TR, CW, possible Destroyer GWF), they run back, help their buddy and finish them off.
They gain Determination when being attacked, the more they are attacked, the faster it builds, thus giving them Unstoppable faster, if they are able to survive the dmg they are taking. Which is why a well played correctly geared Sent GWF is very hard to take down if they are not repeatedly stun locked.
Just an addition for clarification. Determination is accumulated by damage, so if for instance a lashing blade hits the warrior, the Determination meter will go almost full.
The tip to watch for is when they hit it. If you see them receiving too much damage and then unleashing it, then Determination will make them almost immune to damage as well. If they pop it early, they have a 50% reduction, thus damage goes through. That's good to know, when you kite a GWF in usntoppable...if it wears off and his HP are low, he will probably go Unstoppable when the determination bar is half full (at first chance he gets). This means that damage goes through.
It's important to get them as low as possible on the first go, then kite their beast mode and after they get to human mode again start small attacks to feed the Determination slowly...
What about while Unstoppable is active? What do you do then?
Depends on the class. If you are a rogue and have a Shocking up, it's most probably game over (goes through their Unstoppable). Otherwise, don't throw away stuns while they are immune, and keep dodges ready. Most of the times, the correct answer when a GWF is unstoppable is to kite them for some seconds and then return to continue the fight. Full determination is more or less 7 seconds...not THAT much.
* Notorious Dwarven Bear Cavalry Leader *
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degraafinationMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
All correct from those guys. Do your best to Kite, and do your best not to waste any encounters.
As a TR..a well equipped TR will kill 99.9% of GWF's when they are below half with Shocking. Usually we stick and move till that happens and hope to not get stunned and watch Shocking bug out while we use it
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pers3phoneBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
What about while Unstoppable is active? What do you do then?
In case of a 1 vs 1 situation, as a CW, if I'm alone, I always RUN And I watch my encounters cooldowns: by the time my EF and Repel come back, his Unstoppable will wear off, so it's time to recommence CC-DPS cycle... then run again.
If you're good at running/blinking away at the right time and they won't catch you, you can even solo tene sents, with some luck, ability timing and good gear.
Unless you're PvP-specced with decent HP and stuff like Severe Reaction, I wouldn't attempt the way Trace is doing it in his videos, it's too risky to stay so close to the geared GWFs, they gonna eat you alive. His way is better though for point contesting, obviously, since he can stay where needed.
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degraafinationMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Unless you're PvP-specced with decent HP and stuff like Severe Reaction, I wouldn't attempt the way Trace is doing it in his videos, it's too risky to stay so close to the geared GWFs, they gonna eat you alive. His way is better though for point contesting, obviously, since he can stay where needed.
Agreed. Severe Reaction is a must for Sent dueling. If you're under-geared or not speced right, you'll be wrecked. Although I recommend all CWs to pick up Severe Reaction, I know many don't. Please know, however, that even when I was less geared, I was still able to contest a node for a long time. My strategies were slightly different, because I couldn't kill a Sent at the time, but similar (rank 5s, normal Vorpal days).
This thread really should be required reading for new players. It's full of great information.
In fact, if there should be a "penalty" for quitters in PvP, it should be to require them to read this thread before they are allowed to play again.
Thx for the nice words!
on a side note...I am still 1 and 2 shotting players sitting on their mounts capping nodes everyday../snicker
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faiteaccompliiMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 2
edited November 2013
Haha Alysin, I have tried really hard NOT TO sit on mine now, sometimes I get lazy but since you posted this if its a tough match I totally stay off my mount :P :P Thanks for the tips.
Haha Alysin, I have tried really hard NOT TO sit on mine now, sometimes I get lazy but since you posted this if its a tough match I totally stay off my mount :P :P Thanks for the tips.
Heh that's great!
Still...every single match, I kill atleast 2 or 3 people who stay mounted while capping nodes =P
I know what I'm about to offer is elementary, but this is a guide aimed at beginners, so....
Slot the appropriate at-wills, encounters, and dailies for PvP *before* you enter the match, especially if you're a player who likes to play PvE any appreciable amount. Not all powers are equally effective in both environments. Watching a GF rush to midpoint and stomp their foot because they forgot to switch out enforced threat for frontline surge is...well...regretable. Think it doesn't happen? I'm the GF that did just that. Learn from my foolishness or risk repeating it.
In a similar vein, try to come into a match with a full AP meter, or at least one that's close to filling out. You want to go into a fight with all of your weapons (traditional and figurative) locked and loaded because the odds are your enemy's will be. I say 'try' because people are queueing from a variety of places and circumstances might not make it practical. But if you *can* beat up on the dummies in Trade of Blades for a few seconds...do it. PvP in NW will still be there when you queue.
Anyone who has played enough matches will tell you that, more often than not, the ultimate result of the match will be determined early on. Therefore, time is of the essence and every second wasted is a detriment to the team goal. Having the proper powers slotted and your AP meter full means you'll be heading to that mid in top shape. You might still get shredded like tissue paper when you get there. But at least it won't be because you put yourself (and your team) at a disadvantage from the off.
In a similar vein, try to come into a match with a full AP meter, or at least one that's close to filling out. You want to go into a fight with all of your weapons (traditional and figurative) locked and loaded because the odds are your enemy's will be. I say 'try' because people are queueing from a variety of places and circumstances might not make it practical. But if you *can* beat up on the dummies in Trade of Blades for a few seconds...do it. PvP in NW will still be there when you queue.
You can't anymore. They changed it so that your AP meter is set to 0% when you join PvP.
Pvp is my favorite part of this game, despite the bots and generally limited pvp context (no world pvp which would be great). I agree about what people are saying about having the right powers slotted, action points full on entering (when that was possible). I would call that preparation and would ad to it that you should actually buy the pvp potions, slot and use them. By the end of the evening I notice that a lot of pugs start to look like premades because you end up playing with/against the same players over and over again which is really a lot of fun.
My favorite in pvp right now is my GF, Germungus. Nothing like contesting a node vs the entire other team for a full 2-3 minutes while the rest of my team takes the other nodes, and if I am lucky, comes to my node in force before my toon dies lol.
One thing I would ad if it hasn't been said already- don't let the enemy get combat superiority over you, and always get it over them if you are 2v1. Aka keep moving. Even a gf can move around in guard.
Switch Passive for Encounter? How even could they...
Definitely meant Enforced Threat, not Enhanced Mark. The GF foot-stomp... great for trash mob management. I can see it being a lackluster skill in PvP, for sure.
I spose going into a fight with "your" personal proper pvp abilities is good yes.
However, I would imagine that most of you, in every class. Use different sets of abilities, for different situations. Depending on the match, I might switch my abilities frequently and on the fly.
I recommend getting good with EVERY ability combination that you have, and knowing how to switch them out quickly when the fight calls for it.
For example. I generally run ITC, Impact and Shadow Strike in Premades. If I am coming up on a node, and know that a perma type TR is close behind, I will quickly change out impact for Path of Blades.
I assume other class's have situations like this you would change as well, and if you don't. I suggest you start practicing with more load outs as its only going to make you better.
This.
The number of people who go nuts when you shred their GF because they played the statue is ridiculous.
I actually have guard keybound to my right mouse button and threatening rush keybound to my shift key (where guard is by default) so that it is real easy to move in any direction while in guard. IMO the ironic thing about GF in both pve and pvp is just how much more effective it is as a mobile weapons platform than as a bunker.
Comments
Thx for Sharing Trace. I added it to the main post.
If anyone else has some well written tips they would like to share, I will add them as well into the main post. This is the whole reason I wrote this up, in the hopes of gathering a large compendium of knowledge from players in the Community to help new and seasoned players.
After the match Netherstorm and I both sent tells to each other communicating how well the other team played and how much fun it was. Good, good stuff!
Join Essence of Aggression: PVP-ing Hard Since Beta!
1.Beware of your team DC if he looks isolated, a TR may hidden beside him and waiting to 1 shot him.
2.As a range attacker/skiller, sometimes please search for your team DC as they may stay at top of you (pillar and bridge).
a)For the pillar, TR CAN tele beside him and finish him with high burst dps and daze, if your team DC is not a very tankful person, you will have at least 15 secs 4v5 (running back to mid and time to respawn), yup 1 person missing and this is a MAJOR disadvantage for you, you know what i mean, 1 team with AS and control/dps support can totally harass or kill another team before their DC reappears again.
b)For the other map, stand further away from your team DC while capping at mid as there are blind spots for DC to heal/kill from top if you are hiding under your DC. Tell your DC to aware if anyone from opposite team suspected going top to knock your DC down or kill him. (Although this is DC's job, but pvp=teamwork, so kindly remind him if you see so)
3.NEVER wait for a DC to heal you if you are near to death in battle, run to a potion instead. DC have no high burst heal to mantain your HP, they usually slotted AS and two control/dps skill. Those guys pvp much know what i mean.
That's all, anything to add or to correct me is welcome...
Lol I saw this and reminded me of the match today that I had 1v2 sent GWF (Im destroyer GWF) and won. They had good gear, but I have learned to survive as a destroyer with skills. Many of the sentinel GWF have little skills. I qq when I fight one of those with all the crutches - Vorpal/Tene Soulforged etc.
Appreciate you being calm about PvP, but what is getting my panties in a bunch since the server meld is the amount of exploiters infesting matches.
I wont go into all the forms, but really, those are the matches that make me rage. The community should not be passive/accepting about cheaters.
What is the blue bar just below the health bar on a GF? what does it mean? Should the GF be attacked when the blue bar is high, or low?
Also, above it was mentioned that if a GWF is being attacked, the GWF can launch Unstoppable more frequently. How does this work exactly?
I'm not an expert by any means on the specifics of GWF's. Someone else please correct me if I am wrong. But I believe its because of the Determination. They gain Determination when being attacked, the more they are attacked, the faster it builds, thus giving them Unstoppable faster, if they are able to survive the dmg they are taking. Which is why a well played correctly geared Sent GWF is very hard to take down if they are not repeatedly stun locked.
Nothing you personally can really do about it man.
I see exploits and cheats quite often while PvP'ing, and I'm sure there are many more that I don't see. But, its not going to change the way I PvP in anyway. If someone feels the need to cheat to beat me then so be it /shrug. If anything its just going to make you a better player.
My advice to you duder, is do what I do. When you catch someone cheating, just smile in RL, and keep playing. No point in saying anything to them, or calling him/her out as a cheater in /zone. Its not worth it, and generally it will just backfire on you anyway.
Keep playing. When you kill them..Imagine how much they must be raging in RL when they still die after cheating
Cheers!
Exactly. GWFs gobble up damage and spit it back at whatever is attacking them.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
1) Only one person contests the point with the Sentinel.
2) Ideally, that person is a GF, CW or good TR. (to control the node)
3) If the GF or CW cannot take them down 1v1, then when a DPS is free (TR, CW, possible Destroyer GWF), they run back, help their buddy and finish them off.
I'm a firm believer that a good CW can solo most Sentinel's 1v1 (with the exception of Tenny-Sents). So much so that I've started a thread here with a few videos.
I'll hopefully post another video tomorrow. We did a PMvsPM and I had a few chances to 1v1 a their Sentinel back-capper.
Join Essence of Aggression: PVP-ing Hard Since Beta!
Just an addition for clarification. Determination is accumulated by damage, so if for instance a lashing blade hits the warrior, the Determination meter will go almost full.
The tip to watch for is when they hit it. If you see them receiving too much damage and then unleashing it, then Determination will make them almost immune to damage as well. If they pop it early, they have a 50% reduction, thus damage goes through. That's good to know, when you kite a GWF in usntoppable...if it wears off and his HP are low, he will probably go Unstoppable when the determination bar is half full (at first chance he gets). This means that damage goes through.
It's important to get them as low as possible on the first go, then kite their beast mode and after they get to human mode again start small attacks to feed the Determination slowly...
Depends on the class. If you are a rogue and have a Shocking up, it's most probably game over (goes through their Unstoppable). Otherwise, don't throw away stuns while they are immune, and keep dodges ready. Most of the times, the correct answer when a GWF is unstoppable is to kite them for some seconds and then return to continue the fight. Full determination is more or less 7 seconds...not THAT much.
Yep! Kite like a champ. If you're a CW, check out the link above. If not, find a way to kite! :cool:
Join Essence of Aggression: PVP-ing Hard Since Beta!
As a TR..a well equipped TR will kill 99.9% of GWF's when they are below half with Shocking. Usually we stick and move till that happens and hope to not get stunned and watch Shocking bug out while we use it
In case of a 1 vs 1 situation, as a CW, if I'm alone, I always RUN
If you're good at running/blinking away at the right time and they won't catch you, you can even solo tene sents, with some luck, ability timing and good gear.
Unless you're PvP-specced with decent HP and stuff like Severe Reaction, I wouldn't attempt the way Trace is doing it in his videos, it's too risky to stay so close to the geared GWFs, they gonna eat you alive. His way is better though for point contesting, obviously, since he can stay where needed.
Agreed. Severe Reaction is a must for Sent dueling. If you're under-geared or not speced right, you'll be wrecked. Although I recommend all CWs to pick up Severe Reaction, I know many don't. Please know, however, that even when I was less geared, I was still able to contest a node for a long time. My strategies were slightly different, because I couldn't kill a Sent at the time, but similar (rank 5s, normal Vorpal days).
Join Essence of Aggression: PVP-ing Hard Since Beta!
Also, if anyone has any well written info they would like to share, I will gladly put it with the main post with your name attached.
Thx for the nice words!
on a side note...I am still 1 and 2 shotting players sitting on their mounts capping nodes everyday../snicker
Heh that's great!
Still...every single match, I kill atleast 2 or 3 people who stay mounted while capping nodes =P
Slot the appropriate at-wills, encounters, and dailies for PvP *before* you enter the match, especially if you're a player who likes to play PvE any appreciable amount. Not all powers are equally effective in both environments. Watching a GF rush to midpoint and stomp their foot because they forgot to switch out enforced threat for frontline surge is...well...regretable. Think it doesn't happen? I'm the GF that did just that. Learn from my foolishness or risk repeating it.
In a similar vein, try to come into a match with a full AP meter, or at least one that's close to filling out. You want to go into a fight with all of your weapons (traditional and figurative) locked and loaded because the odds are your enemy's will be. I say 'try' because people are queueing from a variety of places and circumstances might not make it practical. But if you *can* beat up on the dummies in Trade of Blades for a few seconds...do it. PvP in NW will still be there when you queue.
Anyone who has played enough matches will tell you that, more often than not, the ultimate result of the match will be determined early on. Therefore, time is of the essence and every second wasted is a detriment to the team goal. Having the proper powers slotted and your AP meter full means you'll be heading to that mid in top shape. You might still get shredded like tissue paper when you get there. But at least it won't be because you put yourself (and your team) at a disadvantage from the off.
Switch Passive for Encounter? How even could they...
You're from parallel universe? Your AP meter gets drained when you join PvP. It was fixed 3 months ago.
My favorite in pvp right now is my GF, Germungus. Nothing like contesting a node vs the entire other team for a full 2-3 minutes while the rest of my team takes the other nodes, and if I am lucky, comes to my node in force before my toon dies lol.
One thing I would ad if it hasn't been said already- don't let the enemy get combat superiority over you, and always get it over them if you are 2v1. Aka keep moving. Even a gf can move around in guard.
Jugger Conq GF
....
This.
The number of people who go nuts when you shred their GF because they played the statue is ridiculous.
Definitely meant Enforced Threat, not Enhanced Mark. The GF foot-stomp... great for trash mob management. I can see it being a lackluster skill in PvP, for sure.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
However, I would imagine that most of you, in every class. Use different sets of abilities, for different situations. Depending on the match, I might switch my abilities frequently and on the fly.
I recommend getting good with EVERY ability combination that you have, and knowing how to switch them out quickly when the fight calls for it.
For example. I generally run ITC, Impact and Shadow Strike in Premades. If I am coming up on a node, and know that a perma type TR is close behind, I will quickly change out impact for Path of Blades.
I assume other class's have situations like this you would change as well, and if you don't. I suggest you start practicing with more load outs as its only going to make you better.
I actually have guard keybound to my right mouse button and threatening rush keybound to my shift key (where guard is by default) so that it is real easy to move in any direction while in guard. IMO the ironic thing about GF in both pve and pvp is just how much more effective it is as a mobile weapons platform than as a bunker.
Jugger Conq GF
....