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Can't PvE because players don't try to clear dungeon, instead exploit and fail.
taish0
Member Posts: 12 Arc User
For me PvE became dead once there were too many groups of people who do runs through mobs, suicides, relogs and instance returns instead of fighting, because trash waves are supposedly "too difficult" for these **** exploiters. If it is not fixed I'm not gonna bother anymore with this game. I always thought PvE is about fighting creatures, not avoiding fight and the goal is not do die, not die in a "proper place" to respawn on the next campfire. Every group looks for "exped" players means exploiters who won't bother fighting and half of them will fail an entire group by doing it wrong anyway. I want to quit the dungeon if mobs are too hard for the party, not if abusing this bad checkpoint system fails.
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There a many players (myself included) who feel the way you do, and refuse to do anything like suicides....my advice is simply to join one of the "no exploiting" guilds and run with them, instead of PUGs.
I report these as bugs every time I run across someone doing them.
It's one thing to use elevation to your advantage, but some of this stuff is immensely annoying!
Before you join any party, you must specifically mention that you want a full clean of the map, so you dont waste the time of the other 4 humans. LOL
bytheway, ill give you an example Spelllauge;
The map header on the selection says the Map can be finish in 45mins.
If you run the dungeon normally, you will finish more than 3hrs. later.
If you bypass some mobs you will finish the map at around 30-45mins.
Now tell me, it is me or this is intended.
AGAIN, do not waste the time of other ppl in your group, if you want to clean the map, find a willing group that would cater to your needs, but do not waste the time and effort of other ppl.
No, let me get YOU straight. People want to bypass the mobs only because there is such possibility. It creates an artificial division on full clear groups (almost none, if you want a full clear you probably won't find any group) and exp groups (exploiter groups). Saying that a time difference between a normal run and exploit run (even smooth) is 5 or 10 times is a complete lie. Such lies lead to brainwashing people who won't even try fighting mobs and will try to get to the next campfire even without an idea how to do it, resulting in massive wipes and party disbanding.
Unless Cryptic realizes that there must be some incentive to players to fight mobs, they will always (and I stress "always") find the most efficient way through a dungeon.
Join Essence of Aggression: PVP-ing Hard Since Beta!
Completing the dungeon appropriately does NOT take "3 hours." It takes pretty much the approximate time stated (45 minutes to an hour) unless there are problems with the boss fight, which is perfectly understandable when you're talking about a group where there are folks who have yet to see the fight and thus know what needs to be done, and who aren't used to working together. And sadly enough, when queue groups bypass mobs, they aren't learning anything in terms of how to best fight together, so when they get to the final boss, they are even LESS prepared than most to work as a team.
I, too, am sick of being unable to enjoy the content because no one in dungeon queues wants to complete it, and instead wants to exploit by jumping around the terrain or suicide running to the next campfire. I gave up queueing weeks ago.
The exploits are just as bad in PvP, and in Gauntlgrym. It's really a shame, because there IS a lot of fun content in the game - but no one wants to do it. The queue system might as well not exist - the moment a group finds out a person either doesn't want to exploit, or doesn't know the "shortcuts," they are booted from the group (or everyone drops if that person is the leader).
If thats the case then there must be a fair bit of afking or faffing about trying to get exploits to work. Most trash packs die faster than it takes for someone to log out and back as long as people have a kill order and focus on the task in hand.
Skipping mobs is a vague term as some can be avoided by walking closer to a wall & dismissing a pet, that is a legit tactic, skipping by glitching something isnt.
Some of us remember how long it took to do a full clear of BRD back in the day including the escort quest. But those were the days when ability was ranked higher than failscore systems and purples actually meant something.
"normally"? Says who? Sorry, but I put no credence in what you said after that. If a player plays the way the OP describes (and I agree with him/her) then maybe they will take three hours. People like that look to cut corners and tend to have short tempers. Personally, I like to enjoy a game the way it was intended, for better or for worse. When I see an NPC or a bit of lore that gives me a decent reason to skip to the end, I'll think about it.
I think a "Party Leader" should be a party leader. It is their job to check/ensure whether the group is a bunch of short-cutters or whether they want the whole experience. What you might call trashy mobs that only give a few coins and a couple enchants, I call easy fun or light relief before the slog of a boss fight.
"Young people....." - Erik Lehnsherr
I specially mention Spell, are you talking about your experience, now pls. try to run it the normal way without "Shortcut", like not running thru pillar to make the adds suicide, taking shortcut on the slit on the walls, or jumping the gate and kill 2nd boss away from his place, and running the last CF and have the adds suicide again, then come back here. When i mean 3hrs. that is the length of time you can clear the map without "shortcut", and it is clearly and specifically mention it will take 45mins. to finish the map, or do you expect all to have 13kgs average ppl running this everyday.
/edit:
I no longer run any Dungeon except MC, cause it is no longer worth the effort.
Thin end of the wedge?
"Young people....." - Erik Lehnsherr
Which just proves the point - it's not the map that's taking you that long, it's the boss fight. And for crying out loud, boss fights are supposed to be hard. They aren't supposed to be facerolls. A wipe or two - especially with a queue group that doesn't play together regularly - is to be expected.
I do believe that the game could have things in place to make boss fights a little more palatable - such as allowing for multiple rezzes of characters, instead of only one. Having to completely start a boss fight over and over because of annoying game mechanics is annoying, I'll grant you.
So are you going to quit when they fix this? Because groups skipping content is broken content. They will fix this as I'm sure they intend the dungeons to be played in full. I personally wish it was more like secret world where you just go from boss to boss, but if the devs want trash we have to fight trash.
I had to ask just in case non ever try to ask one.
I can still move.
I can still fight.
I will never give up!
There are plenty of people in Neverwinter that like to clear dungeons, you aren't going to find them in a Dungeon finder. Make some online friends, it's as simple as that.
"Young people....." - Erik Lehnsherr
t2 karrundax with exploits: 20-40 minutes
without: hahahahaha hahahaha hahahahahahahah hahahaha
pirate king with exploits: 20-30 minutes
without: 30-45
frozen heart with exploits: 20-40 minutes
without: 45-90
temple of the spider with exploits: 15-30 minutes
without: 45-90
dread vault shouldn't be much difference exploit and without, it's very very difficult either way.
CN with exploits: 45-60 minutes
CN without exploits: I tried once with a really good team experimenting with a no cw round, we did surprisingly well up to dracolich where we simply were overrun even though we focused on the red wizards. I don't think you're gonna find 1 in 100 public teams able to beat the dracolich without exploiting the red wizards with the new CN bugs in the expansion patch.
MC with exploits: 45-60 minutes
MC without exploits: You're gonna need a pretty good team to handle the buggy boss.
I find that quite insulting. Some, maybe. "for the most part suck" implies something very very negative about the majority of your fellow players.
Edit (@ chocobofarmer): can't comment about the T2 dungeons, but not sure what the rest of those figures are trying to say; especially without qualification or further citation/corroboration. 45-90 (a difference of 100% on the low end) hardly help, sorry. Up to and including dread vault I know reasonably well. A good group, not exploiting and I rarely take more than an hour. Tops.
"Young people....." - Erik Lehnsherr
I can still move.
I can still fight.
I will never give up!
The time range is with a great group vs with a below average public team, for both with and without exploit.
Again I'll reiterate, cryptic has already fixed the problem by making 90% of the level 60 population no longer want to do t2 and gauntlgrym.
"Young people....." - Erik Lehnsherr
I can still move.
I can still fight.
I will never give up!