or maybe you want them to put on the window 2 choices,
1) Would you like to enter this dungeon with you current team?
2) And would you like the exploit map or the Normal map?
I thought that it was intentionally like this.
Dungeon or Tunnelofmobsandconstantcooldownrotation
I don't know any of the "shortcuts" or "exploits" most of the 60-quo know.
But I guarantee, if there is a way to run up a mountain, people will find out how to run up that mountain.
The only problem is, if you consider "alternative routes" exploiting, it can be said that it should be tunnels instead of halls.
However, the pushing of mobs and suiciding of bosses might have been a bug, but 60ft high vert ramp blocks in the dungeon design? would still have the aesthetically pleasing scenery, but none of the hideous fall into the abyss for an insta-jib overtones.
GWF:
Savage Advance Daily power will run you straight off a cliff if you use it too close (comical) on the other hand Crescendo Daily Power will get you stuck on Yshhiggol (BUG).
I'm gonna stick my balls out: PWE did do a good job here "It's a game, enjoy" Some skips / workarounds might be a bit too obvious to remain.
Maybe a petition: Which dungeon would you like to be the focus of a "Tunnel of mobs, full clear only" revamp?
/Giggles
0
pers3phoneBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Still not one of the carebears here answer the question?
Spellauge Dungeon in 45mins.
have anyone of you wondered why Cryptic put the map to be finish in 45mins.
No i dont think you have an answer for that... LOL.
Nobody will answer you this one man. We all know it's not possible, short of a 11K GS team communicating and used to play together, with great experience in running SP many times. 8300 GS? You will take 30 minutes dpsing each boss - that's it if you can survive the mob waves, which you won't.
So no, 45 minutes is just a number they put there, obviously. I belive that by know everybody realized this game tries it's best to make you come and stay each day for as long as possible, with it's events and daily invocations and lost celestial coins.
The most annoying behavior which some speed runners do is not help teammates.
I can do a speed run (sometimes) and even join in exploiting (sometimes) ...
But if you run past me, while I fight a mob, be prepared for me to quit.
If my life means nothing to you, then why do I want to play with you?
It does not matter what is the plan. Do not ignore and ran past teammates in combat or who need help.
If you do not help or care about teammates, then please go play single players games. Multiplayer games are not for you.
Sometimes, when a speed runner is bossy and wants to skip too many mobs, I test him by running ahead and attacking a mob.
If the speed runner runs past me and lets me die, then I start yelling or quit.
The selfishness of some players is beyond my comprehension.
Pretty close to what I think.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"Young people....." - Erik Lehnsherr
The most annoying behavior which some speed runners do is not help teammates.
I can do a speed run (sometimes) and even join in exploiting (sometimes) ...
But if you run past me, while I fight a mob, be prepared for me to quit.
If my life means nothing to you, then why do I want to play with you?
It does not matter what is the plan. Do not ignore and ran past teammates in combat or who need help.
If you do not help or care about teammates, then please go play single players games. Multiplayer games are not for you.
Sometimes, when a speed runner is bossy and wants to skip too many mobs, I test him by running ahead and attacking a mob.
If the speed runner runs past me and lets me die, then I start yelling or quit.
The selfishness of some players is beyond my comprehension.
You run up to mobs that can be skipped and stop to attack, and if your allies dont waste their time to stop and help you then you rage out and quit? How can you call the other players selfish with that attitude. If there are 4 people who want to skip the adds who are you to selfishly demand that they dont? When i see people do stuff like that to "test" their allies i kick them and finish the run with 4.
Simple fix, tag each group of "trash" mobs through out the dungeon and code the boss for that section to summon them as adds throughout the fight at 60 second intervals in addition to the normal adds. Want an easy boss fight, kill every mob in the dungeon so there is nothing to summon. Don't clear the dungeon, don't kill the trash, well, you just end up doing it anyway.
I just jumped on for the first time since a few days after the mod 1 release. I figured, well hey maybe I should try doing something. Me and wife made a group for Karrundax and my god it is still as frustrating as it was two months ago.
Pugs don't care about the game, they care about the loot farming. They all wanted to do exploits they barely knew and kept HAMSTER it up.
You run up to mobs that can be skipped and stop to attack, and if your allies dont waste their time to stop and help you then you rage out and quit? How can you call the other players selfish with that attitude. If there are 4 people who want to skip the adds who are you to selfishly demand that they dont? When i see people do stuff like that to "test" their allies i kick them and finish the run with 4.
As soon as you log in you're "wasting time", because that's what games are: huge time sinks. This one isn't an exception. I would advise you not to force people to cheat, because that's not nice, but i think you don't care. If you're not having fun following the rules, i suggest you just log out. *shrugs*
As soon as you log in you're "wasting time", because that's what games are: huge time sinks. This one isn't an exception. I would advise you not to force people to cheat, because that's not nice, but i think you don't care. If you're not having fun following the rules, i suggest you just log out. *shrugs*
I enjoy the way i play. If you have an issue with it then leave the groups when all 4 other members disagree with you. And who said "wasting time"? I never that. I find the boss fights much more fun the clearing trash mobs. Id prefer to run past them and then fight the boss. If you dont like the way dungeons are currently done id advise you to just obstain from doing any of them. If you end up in my group you will be kicked the moment you stop to "test allies".
I enjoy the way i play. If you have an issue with it then leave the groups when all 4 other members disagree with you. And who said "wasting time"? I never that. I find the boss fights much more fun the clearing trash mobs. Id prefer to run past them and then fight the boss. If you dont like the way dungeons are currently done id advise you to just obstain from doing any of them. If you end up in my group you will be kicked the moment you stop to "test allies".
Too bad i always have the leadership in pug groups. And when i say always, i truly mean that. Anyway, you're taking an unfair advantage over people playing the game and following the rules, and according to the ToS you should be banned.
Too bad i always have the leadership in pug groups. And when i say always, i truly mean that. Anyway, you're taking an unfair advantage over people playing the game and following the rules, and according to the ToS you should be banned.
Show the ToS stating that skipping mobs is an exploit. Since we know you cant clearly you have no valid points and only a cry-baby opinion.
Too bad i always have the leadership in pug groups. And when i say always, i truly mean that. Anyway, you're taking an unfair advantage over people playing the game and following the rules, and according to the ToS you should be banned.
No ToS??? Then you have nothing to say at end stop posting until you provide a specific ToS stating skipping mobs is exploiting.
0
derpaderpistMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
For me PvE became dead once there were too many groups of people who do runs through mobs, suicides, relogs and instance returns instead of fighting, because trash waves are supposedly "too difficult" for these **** exploiters. If it is not fixed I'm not gonna bother anymore with this game. I always thought PvE is about fighting creatures, not avoiding fight and the goal is not do die, not die in a "proper place" to respawn on the next campfire. Every group looks for "exped" players means exploiters who won't bother fighting and half of them will fail an entire group by doing it wrong anyway. I want to quit the dungeon if mobs are too hard for the party, not if abusing this bad checkpoint system fails.
People want to rush dungeons ONLY when the DD event is on , I would prefer a group that rushes through the dungeon so I can get more loot in 1 DD event . Idk how it is outside of DD , for me doing dungeons outside the DD event is a waste of time and resources .
The real question though still stands , why Cryptic / PWE released the game when it was clear even in Open Beta that the content is exploitable / the Feats / Heroic Feats do not work properly ( as in not tested AT ALL ) + ... the list goes on and on look at the bug section of the forums I hope you got the point .
" We live in an age of the cheaply made, disposable, high priced junk. " - theunwarshed
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
- Dylan Thomas
0
xxxerexxxMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 9Arc User
edited September 2013
Personally I'm mostly ok with it. Mainly because I'm sick and tired of fighting through a dungeon and getting total HAMSTER at the end. If I was getting closer to what I was getting before the feywild patch (even if it was still bop) then I'd be a lot more willing to fight through everything. As it stands you end up with more runes/enchants/blue junk farming feywild then you do from a full t2 run.
I am not sure what is false about what this poster said?? I don't really see the relevancy to the OP ... but what this poster said and quoted is dead on... PWE and for that matter NO game maker/publisher needs a reason to ban you... your account is at their will... that is the fact of the matter... if it were not that way, they would never be able to close down a game without being sued by some jackarse.....
What you said is true as well... exploitation and it's definition is solely at PWE's discretion as well..
well it was much cooler when moderator said it.my bad
I have had the following happen during dungeon runs.
Me: "Just so you guys know this my first run in this dungeon"
5 minutes later with no acknowledgement of my comment
OC: "You f****** ****, your f****** slow"
Me: "I told you"
OC: "F****** ****, I'm out"
LFG chat I specifically state it will be slow. Get tell saying they want join the party. I tell them directly that it won't be a speed run, and ask if they are good with that. Get a Yes answer, 10 minutes into the dungeon person quits and complaining about how slow the group is going, or that we left the sparkly carebear trail, or that we are wasting his time. This is how the speedsters are forcing others to play their way. The group is left either trying to finish as a 4 man group, which can be done in some dungeons, or having to quit and finding a new fifth and starting over.
@Fallenhawk: I'm sure I've done a few dungeons at around the hour mark, but I don't keep track of how long it takes me. So what if it takes me 1.5 to 2 hours? I play to relax and escape pressure not to stress out about how long it takes, I do that enough at work. What I don't get is why you are playing a game whose IP is all about the leveling, when you don't care about leveling?
still dont understand why you all continue to blame each other for poorly designed content and mechanics.
Because the speed demons don't care about whether the content is good or bad, they just want the loot as quickly as possible, preferably right at the entrance. Which personally I don't understand why they even run the dungeons in the first place. So they get the loot and sell it or salvage it. What do they do with money? Buy gear, to what end? The gear is to make the dungeon easier, but if they don't want to play the dungeon why do they need the gear?
The mechanics of the game could use some work, but that is yet another discussion. Bad mechanics do not excuse exploitation.
An exploit, in video games, is the use of a bug or glitches, rates, hit boxes, or speed, etc. by a player to their advantage in a manner not intended by the game's designers.[1] It is often colloquially abbreviated sploit. Exploits have never been classified as a form of cheating; however, the precise determination of what is or is not considered an exploit can be controversial. This debate stems from a number of factors but typically involves the argument that the issues are part of the game and require no changes or external programs to take advantage of them.[2]
The ambiguity of the ToS on exploits is on purpose to allow some leeway I suppose. I don't think the players should be blamed, they are doing something rational in terms of gain, but potentially irrational in terms of the final outcomes.
Because the speed demons don't care about whether the content is good or bad, they just want the loot as quickly as possible, preferably right at the entrance. Which personally I don't understand why they even run the dungeons in the first place. So they get the loot and sell it or salvage it. What do they do with money? Buy gear, to what end? The gear is to make the dungeon easier, but if they don't want to play the dungeon why do they need the gear?
The mechanics of the game could use some work, but that is yet another discussion. Bad mechanics do not excuse exploitation.
I can't figure out why they bother playing either.
Because the speed demons don't care about whether the content is good or bad, they just want the loot as quickly as possible, preferably right at the entrance. Which personally I don't understand why they even run the dungeons in the first place. So they get the loot and sell it or salvage it. What do they do with money? Buy gear, to what end? The gear is to make the dungeon easier, but if they don't want to play the dungeon why do they need the gear?
The mechanics of the game could use some work, but that is yet another discussion. Bad mechanics do not excuse exploitation.
You're new to MMO's, aren't you?
Pretty sure you're answering your own question. I want loot as quickly as possible so that I can get more loot even faster, and will use any advantage I think I can use to do so. It really is that simple.
In fact, they've increased the need to exploit dungeons dramatically, BoE sets are basically non-existant now, and even a set of T1 is better than non-set T2 items, so the time it takes to get the better gear is dramatically increased. Speed-running to get through 3 dungeons during DD is the same as doing 5 normal runs because only 1 of those can be during the DD, and the speed-running gets it done in 1/5 the time so I can actually *gasp* have a life outside this game and not spend 5 hours just to get 1 item that's useful for my party.
All MMO's run into this issue where it stops being worth the time of top players (who, btw, are most often the top spenders in a f2p) to continue running content because of the time::reward. Game companies have to incentivise playtime because the more time I spend logged in, the more money they'll make off me (on the larger scale anyway, I personally am a cheapskate and grind for all my gear/mounts); if I don't feel it's worth 5 hours to gain +10 gearscore, I'm not logging in here.
Or possibly it's because I'm bad at the game and skip trash pulls because "they're hard" or something. Because there's actually trash that's harder than the bosses ... oh wait, there isn't, it's just that trash is trash and 5 minutes of my time isn't worth HAMSTER greens and rank 3 enchants (and probably a portable altar!)
don't like all the speed running and exploits, too. but that is due to bad game design. if they would change the mechanic that bosses only spawn once you cleared mobs then you would not be able to just avoid trash mobs. also loot should be better on the last boss but some mobs (cn ring farming) drop loots at the beginning so you can just farm first bosses.
maybe - i know ppl will hate me - they should "unlock" the blue and purple loot in a dungeon only by beating last mob and finishing the dungeon. so while you could pick it up you won't be able to equip, sell, put in ah or salvage it unless you unlock it with beating the final mob. the current mechanics lead to the fact that new players hardly find groups to do higher level dungeons completely anymore.
You're new to MMO's, aren't you?
Pretty sure you're answering your own question. I want loot as quickly as possible so that I can get more loot even faster, and will use any advantage I think I can use to do so. It really is that simple.
In fact, they've increased the need to exploit dungeons dramatically, BoE sets are basically non-existant now, and even a set of T1 is better than non-set T2 items, so the time it takes to get the better gear is dramatically increased. Speed-running to get through 3 dungeons during DD is the same as doing 5 normal runs because only 1 of those can be during the DD, and the speed-running gets it done in 1/5 the time so I can actually *gasp* have a life outside this game and not spend 5 hours just to get 1 item that's useful for my party.
All MMO's run into this issue where it stops being worth the time of top players (who, btw, are most often the top spenders in a f2p) to continue running content because of the time::reward. Game companies have to incentivise playtime because the more time I spend logged in, the more money they'll make off me (on the larger scale anyway, I personally am a cheapskate and grind for all my gear/mounts); if I don't feel it's worth 5 hours to gain +10 gearscore, I'm not logging in here.
Or possibly it's because I'm bad at the game and skip trash pulls because "they're hard" or something. Because there's actually trash that's harder than the bosses ... oh wait, there isn't, it's just that trash is trash and 5 minutes of my time isn't worth HAMSTER greens and rank 3 enchants (and probably a portable altar!)
No, I'm not new to MMOs I just have a different mindset I guess. I play one dungeon a day, if at all. I don't care if I got a BiS bit of gear or not. The important part for me is I that had fun. It doesn't matter to me if it takes me a week or two to get a particular piece of armour or weapon. Yes, I like the way the Sharandar campaign is set up, although I haven't done Malabog's Castle yet, and I understand there are issues with the treasure in it, but that is another matter.
I don't stop playing an MMO because I have maxed out, I stop when the game stops being fun for me.
Comments
I thought that it was intentionally like this.
Dungeon or Tunnelofmobsandconstantcooldownrotation
I don't know any of the "shortcuts" or "exploits" most of the 60-quo know.
But I guarantee, if there is a way to run up a mountain, people will find out how to run up that mountain.
The only problem is, if you consider "alternative routes" exploiting, it can be said that it should be tunnels instead of halls.
However, the pushing of mobs and suiciding of bosses might have been a bug, but 60ft high vert ramp blocks in the dungeon design? would still have the aesthetically pleasing scenery, but none of the hideous fall into the abyss for an insta-jib overtones.
GWF:
Savage Advance Daily power will run you straight off a cliff if you use it too close (comical) on the other hand Crescendo Daily Power will get you stuck on Yshhiggol (BUG).
I'm gonna stick my balls out: PWE did do a good job here "It's a game, enjoy" Some skips / workarounds might be a bit too obvious to remain.
Maybe a petition: Which dungeon would you like to be the focus of a "Tunnel of mobs, full clear only" revamp?
/Giggles
Nobody will answer you this one man. We all know it's not possible, short of a 11K GS team communicating and used to play together, with great experience in running SP many times. 8300 GS? You will take 30 minutes dpsing each boss - that's it if you can survive the mob waves, which you won't.
So no, 45 minutes is just a number they put there, obviously. I belive that by know everybody realized this game tries it's best to make you come and stay each day for as long as possible, with it's events and daily invocations and lost celestial coins.
Pretty close to what I think.
"Young people....." - Erik Lehnsherr
You run up to mobs that can be skipped and stop to attack, and if your allies dont waste their time to stop and help you then you rage out and quit? How can you call the other players selfish with that attitude. If there are 4 people who want to skip the adds who are you to selfishly demand that they dont? When i see people do stuff like that to "test" their allies i kick them and finish the run with 4.
Pugs don't care about the game, they care about the loot farming. They all wanted to do exploits they barely knew and kept HAMSTER it up.
See you guys next holiday.
Catalina Erantzo - GWF 13.9K GS
<Future> Guild on Dragon - Legit Non Exploit Guild (We are always recruiting great players)
Future Guild Recruitment Thread: http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?475381-lt-Future-gt-Legit-Non-Exploit-Guild-Recruiting
As soon as you log in you're "wasting time", because that's what games are: huge time sinks. This one isn't an exception. I would advise you not to force people to cheat, because that's not nice, but i think you don't care. If you're not having fun following the rules, i suggest you just log out. *shrugs*
I enjoy the way i play. If you have an issue with it then leave the groups when all 4 other members disagree with you. And who said "wasting time"? I never that. I find the boss fights much more fun the clearing trash mobs. Id prefer to run past them and then fight the boss. If you dont like the way dungeons are currently done id advise you to just obstain from doing any of them. If you end up in my group you will be kicked the moment you stop to "test allies".
Too bad i always have the leadership in pug groups. And when i say always, i truly mean that.
The fault lies with cryptic for releasing broken, exploitable content and allowing it to remain on Live for months.
It's time for Cryptic to step up and take responsibility for the mess they have created.
This.
But that won't happen. They couldn't even take responsibility for nightmare thursday.
Show the ToS stating that skipping mobs is an exploit. Since we know you cant clearly you have no valid points and only a cry-baby opinion.
No ToS??? Then you have nothing to say at end stop posting until you provide a specific ToS stating skipping mobs is exploiting.
People want to rush dungeons ONLY when the DD event is on , I would prefer a group that rushes through the dungeon so I can get more loot in 1 DD event . Idk how it is outside of DD , for me doing dungeons outside the DD event is a waste of time and resources .
The real question though still stands , why Cryptic / PWE released the game when it was clear even in Open Beta that the content is exploitable / the Feats / Heroic Feats do not work properly ( as in not tested AT ALL ) + ... the list goes on and on look at the bug section of the forums I hope you got the point .
It's completely at PWE's discretion. This is the most important part of the ToS regarding all these posts.
PWE MAY SUSPEND, TERMINATE, MODIFY, BLOCK ACCESS TO OR DELETE THE SERVICE OR ANY ACCOUNT AT ANY TIME WITH OR WITHOUT REASON, WITH OR WITHOUT NOTICE.
They don't even need a reason. I could get banned because Im Asian, but they wouldn't have to give a reason or notice.
YMMV with F2P MMOS
PS I enjoy this game. Don't ban me.
Fox Stevenson - Sandblast
Oh Wonder - Without You
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
- Dylan Thomas
i will make this short and sweet:
Account bans are and always will be based on the severity of the offense.
Whether an account was exploiting or not is entirely at the discretion of PWE and Cryptic Studios.
Please don't post such false information.
and one more thing dont poke the bear.....unicorn,goat, hijene,chicken,dracula,pikachu,vauvau,pit bull,american ninja,ninja tourtle
Fox Stevenson - Sandblast
Oh Wonder - Without You
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
- Dylan Thomas
troll alarm and going to lower depts in 3....2....1....
well it was much cooler when moderator said it.my bad
I have had the following happen during dungeon runs.
Me: "Just so you guys know this my first run in this dungeon"
5 minutes later with no acknowledgement of my comment
OC: "You f****** ****, your f****** slow"
Me: "I told you"
OC: "F****** ****, I'm out"
LFG chat I specifically state it will be slow. Get tell saying they want join the party. I tell them directly that it won't be a speed run, and ask if they are good with that. Get a Yes answer, 10 minutes into the dungeon person quits and complaining about how slow the group is going, or that we left the sparkly carebear trail, or that we are wasting his time. This is how the speedsters are forcing others to play their way. The group is left either trying to finish as a 4 man group, which can be done in some dungeons, or having to quit and finding a new fifth and starting over.
@Fallenhawk: I'm sure I've done a few dungeons at around the hour mark, but I don't keep track of how long it takes me. So what if it takes me 1.5 to 2 hours? I play to relax and escape pressure not to stress out about how long it takes, I do that enough at work. What I don't get is why you are playing a game whose IP is all about the leveling, when you don't care about leveling?
Because the speed demons don't care about whether the content is good or bad, they just want the loot as quickly as possible, preferably right at the entrance. Which personally I don't understand why they even run the dungeons in the first place. So they get the loot and sell it or salvage it. What do they do with money? Buy gear, to what end? The gear is to make the dungeon easier, but if they don't want to play the dungeon why do they need the gear?
The mechanics of the game could use some work, but that is yet another discussion. Bad mechanics do not excuse exploitation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exploit_(video_gaming)
An exploit, in video games, is the use of a bug or glitches, rates, hit boxes, or speed, etc. by a player to their advantage in a manner not intended by the game's designers.[1] It is often colloquially abbreviated sploit. Exploits have never been classified as a form of cheating; however, the precise determination of what is or is not considered an exploit can be controversial. This debate stems from a number of factors but typically involves the argument that the issues are part of the game and require no changes or external programs to take advantage of them.[2]
The ambiguity of the ToS on exploits is on purpose to allow some leeway I suppose. I don't think the players should be blamed, they are doing something rational in terms of gain, but potentially irrational in terms of the final outcomes.
Think "Tragedy of the Commons".
Fox Stevenson - Sandblast
Oh Wonder - Without You
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
- Dylan Thomas
I can't figure out why they bother playing either.
Catalina Erantzo - GWF 13.9K GS
<Future> Guild on Dragon - Legit Non Exploit Guild (We are always recruiting great players)
Future Guild Recruitment Thread: http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?475381-lt-Future-gt-Legit-Non-Exploit-Guild-Recruiting
Pretty sure you're answering your own question. I want loot as quickly as possible so that I can get more loot even faster, and will use any advantage I think I can use to do so. It really is that simple.
In fact, they've increased the need to exploit dungeons dramatically, BoE sets are basically non-existant now, and even a set of T1 is better than non-set T2 items, so the time it takes to get the better gear is dramatically increased. Speed-running to get through 3 dungeons during DD is the same as doing 5 normal runs because only 1 of those can be during the DD, and the speed-running gets it done in 1/5 the time so I can actually *gasp* have a life outside this game and not spend 5 hours just to get 1 item that's useful for my party.
All MMO's run into this issue where it stops being worth the time of top players (who, btw, are most often the top spenders in a f2p) to continue running content because of the time::reward. Game companies have to incentivise playtime because the more time I spend logged in, the more money they'll make off me (on the larger scale anyway, I personally am a cheapskate and grind for all my gear/mounts); if I don't feel it's worth 5 hours to gain +10 gearscore, I'm not logging in here.
Or possibly it's because I'm bad at the game and skip trash pulls because "they're hard" or something. Because there's actually trash that's harder than the bosses ... oh wait, there isn't, it's just that trash is trash and 5 minutes of my time isn't worth HAMSTER greens and rank 3 enchants (and probably a portable altar!)
maybe - i know ppl will hate me - they should "unlock" the blue and purple loot in a dungeon only by beating last mob and finishing the dungeon. so while you could pick it up you won't be able to equip, sell, put in ah or salvage it unless you unlock it with beating the final mob. the current mechanics lead to the fact that new players hardly find groups to do higher level dungeons completely anymore.
No, I'm not new to MMOs I just have a different mindset I guess. I play one dungeon a day, if at all. I don't care if I got a BiS bit of gear or not. The important part for me is I that had fun. It doesn't matter to me if it takes me a week or two to get a particular piece of armour or weapon. Yes, I like the way the Sharandar campaign is set up, although I haven't done Malabog's Castle yet, and I understand there are issues with the treasure in it, but that is another matter.
I don't stop playing an MMO because I have maxed out, I stop when the game stops being fun for me.