Give me a reason to fight through trash. I get copper and one or two rank 4 enchantments for killing a room full of mobs? Oh, boy!
Unless Cryptic realizes that there must be some incentive to players to fight mobs, they will always (and I stress "always") find the most efficient way through a dungeon.
Cause I'm tired of seeing 14k gs **** players that can't menage a single fight, because they are accustomed to pike or skip most of the content.
that cant be more far from the truth...the guys that skipp have a lott more skill then the guys who dont.it can happen first time after patch thats all...i know your problem you cant handle a few jumps lol and on top of that you cant stand that some are realy rich in the game coz of it. go and kill magma 9gs dude
yea... because clearing same dungeon over and over again just to get 1 item is pure fun... not to mention lots of trash mobs, that gives you "nothing", to beat along the way to the boss. Yeaaa... it sounds like fun to fight thoose meaningless monsters dozens of time for nothing
If trash mobs would drop unicorn/drake seals then maybe killing them wouldn't be pointless.
0
krisst0fMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
If trash mobs would drop unicorn/drake seals then maybe killing them wouldn't be pointless.
Great suggestion! But that would ONLY work if the equipment you get with them was not Bind on Pickup, hence is useless to get any reasonable AD, which is where the real problem is now with this game.
Great suggestion! But that would ONLY work if the equipment you get with them was not Bind on Pickup, hence is useless to get any reasonable AD, which is where the real problem is now with this game.
seal items really shouldn't be BoP. It's made GG a ghost town. All seal items should be tradable and sellable. Seal items really aren't the best in game. The best rings and belts drop in CN (and karrundax) so why are seal vendors BoP?
pirate king with exploits: 20-30 minutes
without: 30-45
frozen heart with exploits: 20-40 minutes
without: 45-90
temple of the spider with exploits: 15-30 minutes
without: 45-90
dread vault shouldn't be much difference exploit and without, it's very very difficult either way.
CN with exploits: 45-60 minutes
CN without exploits: I tried once with a really good team experimenting with a no cw round, we did surprisingly well up to dracolich where we simply were overrun even though we focused on the red wizards. I don't think you're gonna find 1 in 100 public teams able to beat the dracolich without exploiting the red wizards with the new CN bugs in the expansion patch.
MC with exploits: 45-60 minutes
MC without exploits: You're gonna need a pretty good team to handle the buggy boss.
OK, I can feel the OPs pain and frustration regarding this issue. I can also relate to the difficulty in terms of time spent on some of the dungeons choco mentions in above post. (I see some people bragging about how cool and awesome and full of win their characters are, that they can clear entire dungeons in less time without exploits. Frankly I have not met a single one of these. Unless, you are a total Pay2win type starting all T2s with a 12k+ GS, I find you hard to believe. Please post or link some videos where your toons with 9k-ish GS clear dungeons below the time estimates provided by choco for it to sound believable). There also seems a third group trying to close the argument by stating that it is the Dev's fault.
It does appear that the only solution at the moment is to find a like-minded group to do dungeons with rather than doing it with PUGs. I am sure that a mix of both groups would just lead to conflicts of interest and thereby resulting in a failed attempt. Don't agree that all the exploiters are just bad players, I think several may be very skillful, also probably just leveling alts after they have cleared the dungeons on their mains. Also agree with other posts that have stressed that unless and until all exploits are patched, exploiters will exploit.
We can all hope that the Devs will patch many of these bugs/exploits forcing everyone to be on the same page, but I doubt that this will happen. Why? Look at the Feywild patch where the Devs have picked the easy way out- make all the DD chest items BoP, so that it is no longer worthwhile to run dungeons for money but only when you want specific gear for yourself. So people trying to quick farm may have to just move on to other methods of exploiting for money.
I know thats a long post but that is my two cents worth. :rolleyes:
Quote:
temple of the spider with exploits: 15-30 minutes
without: 45-90
Just to get this straight: Passing slow walking and high hp mobs like driders or jumping over the ledge before the last door in Spider is exploiting?
Even without this Spider is done in 20 min.
Or throwing mobs of ledges?
0
vagrantpiMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 4Arc User
edited September 2013
How the **** does anyone do Karr without exploits? I've tried, my guild has tried - I've asked on zone and LFG and got a 'lolno' response. If someone can seriously show me a 9-10k GS team that can clear Karr without exploits in an hour, I'll send them AD. Because with the way some of the dungeons are designed, it's ****ing impossible. (Unless you're horribly overgeared, but most people can't really afford perfect and rank 10 enchants.)
The difficulty spike is ridiculous. The T1 dungeons are a breeze, never had a problem there, but then the moment I started doing T2 dungeons, bam. The **** becomes nearly unplayable. I typically don't exploit in MMOs - it seems to beat the fun out of the game, but in this case, well. I would like to get geared to do content with my guild, and I typically only have an hour or so a day to play - if the dungeons could be cleared in about an hour with a decent GS of 1-2k, then I'd ****ing do that, but as it stands, I can't, nor can I always expect my guildies/friends to be on to run dungeons with them.
So where does that me? Exploiting, since it's the only reasonable way I can complete a dungeon and get gear in a reasonable amount of ****ing time.
dungeon and queue system is HAMSTER, this has been pointed out since early beta guys, not holding breath anything will change....
replacing players is #1 top thing players asked for - still not happened, not even a whiff of interest from devs.
Ok so it's fair for someone to jump into an instance right at the final boss since another player dropped? There has to be a point at which you can't have new players, and before any bosses are killed seems to be the logical choice. Also with the new system why would you want to skip mini bosses? I did a karru and a FH yesterday, got pyrotechnic band in karru and an icon from FH. What do you think the DD chest gave me? 4k rough AD. what do you think the other items gave me? Lol 80k for pyro and 70k for crappy icon, why would I not want to do the earlier bosses?
Guild Master of <Enemy Team>
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
is it "fair" for the 4 other players who have to start over (if they even can, if DD isn't expired) when 1 person discos or quits?
Let the party leader invite people if someone quits then. Also default should be a fresh queue instance but another option to also allow you to fill the empty spots from the queue system. Of course to prevent exploiters from benefiting, how about making them enter at the beginning of the dungeon and make return to instance drop you at the beginning when re-entering. The fact that it ports you forward is being massively abused.
is it "fair" for the 4 other players who have to start over (if they even can, if DD isn't expired) when 1 person discos or quits?
If they disconnect they can rejoin. If they quit maybe you should have put a more reliable team together. Pugging is the most horrible idea ever. Just don't do it. At the very least put your team together in zone chat.
Not to mention what is stopping a group from just booting a team member at last boss since they'll get a replacement? Oh look so and so just got on, lets boot this stupid pug and grab a guildee... people would cry 10 times harder over stuff like that.
Guild Master of <Enemy Team>
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
don't see how it could be exploited. you still have to clear up to the end, you still have to kill the boss, and once you do, it's over. you're only getting 1 boss per clear, which is all the devs care about.
1-2 new players joining at the end is far far desirable than 3-4 others getting @#$ed over.
Personal I think it just one person or at most 3-5 people.....oh wait it is 3-5 people . The same 3-5 people who love BOP,and need only for class. I think about time they tell us how they get the DEV to listing to them(hint hint ).
Hell on one page it two guy(or girls) Just ranting on and on.
I have a race that this kind of people can relate to it the Borg.
yeah....
People having standarts and values should join the borg, right? another case of parenting faillure right here...
I bet you are so proud of yourself for being a cheater, noskill , and with awfull ****ty arrogant personality..
but hey ppl like you and the other **** players/persons are the majority in this game...
and BTW mods.... if you come to the topics for deleting posts like you did for 2 of my posts in this topic, why dont you push the subject to the right ears? Or any topic for that matters?
because you are really doing a very HAMSTER work.... too many topics without any answers, too many problems withou any hope of comunication and you waste your time deleting posts...
another recently release game has an option on their queue system to "join a party already in progress"
oh and the same game's bug forums provide lots of communication to the players. NWO and the players would benefit immensely from this, as currently we essentially get no communication whatsoever.
here are their bug forms:
Forum: Bug Reports
Sub-Forums:
In-Game Bugs
Resolved Issues
Accepted Bugs
Insufficient Information
Unable to Verify
Confirmed
Planning to Address
Fixed
Working as Intended
Duplicate Bugs
Not a Bug Report
Just wanted to add that PvE in this game is also bad because boss tactics that you may have seen in World of Warcraft have been replaced by mob skipping tactics and bug abusing like hitting final boss through wall in Gray Wolf's Den. No other tactics are required, only personal skills with your class.
Donatello from TMNT on the NES should be the next class they make!
but can you prove me wrong about that last statment??
i'm not interested in proving you wrong as stereotyping is inherently false.
But perhaps you didnt understand my comment and maybe this will help:
Psychological projection ... a defense mechanism in which a person unconsciously rejects his or her own unacceptable attributes by ascribing them to objects or persons in the outside world.
Here's the link if you have any inclination to learn more.
0
sasheriaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 1Arc User
edited September 2013
If there is a shortcut (and you don't get in trouble for using it) then people WILL use said shortcut. It could be in life, works, games, anything. Heck, even some short cut (minor punishment) people will use and some (major punishment) some will go that route (i.e. possible jail time of caught)
It is our nature to be lazy (generally) why do x2 the work when .5 of the work YIELD the same results?
This is why the devs have to rework the dungeons. Make it worth the players' while to do a full clear.
Couple of example that it could work (again, this takes a recode and probably a lot of work/patches)
1 trash mob = 10 adds at final boss
for every 1% clear you get a better chance of getting higher loot or "more loot"
100% clear means everyone will get a personal drop
sub boss/mini boss - if left alone (skipped) they will provide a perma buff on the final boss AND help (buff don't go away even after the mini boss dies)
sub boss/mini boss left alive COULD introduce extra mechanics into the final fight - longer stun, random aoe damage, curse (take more damage) slower movement speed etc etc.
Trash mobs that are not killed CAN come and help the final boss (which can make a final fight even more difficult)
There has to be reward so maybe every sub boss defeated, you can get extra tokens (i.e. 1 boss = 1 token for loot, 4 bosses = 10 tokens. bonus given at the end of the run?
This will require that players cannot be booted by a single player. It has to be a group effort AND the booted player will STILL get rewarded for current participation (i.e. don't get lock out of loot of say 2 bosses out of 5 are defeated and still get a roll and 3 tokens.
seisem2Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited September 2013
I can't believe the amount of people on this forum that condone cheating. Also, I can't think of one rpg (single or multi player) where you don't have to kill trash in a dungeon to get to the boss. It is like this in EVERY rpg.
What is the point of getting gear if you are skipping all of the content to get it? To stand in town with it? I just don't understand why you would want to ruin the game.
Instead of not understanding the reasoning. Why don't you give suggestions like poster above you on how the devs can improve the encounters so no one would skip. And I can think of plenty of MMORPGS where people skip trash mobs.
Instead of not understanding the reasoning. Why don't you give suggestions like poster above you on how the devs can improve the encounters so no one would skip. And I can think of plenty of MMORPGS where people skip trash mobs.
Actually if you read through the forums you will see time after time where I have given suggestions on how to fix the problem.... but at the end of the day, you either choose to exploit or you don't. My guild doesn't HAVE to cheat... we know that it is there.. but we choose to play the game legit. That is the difference.
My number 1 fix is to create a shard where we can put all the cheaters. Let them have DD 24 hours a day. When DD pops, they zone into the dungeon and all the bosses are at the entrance -- no trash. They all fall over and die and hand them 5 sets a piece of T2 BOE equipment. This is the level of play they are looking for, they should love that.
bioshrikeMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,729Arc User
edited September 2013
There is a difference between "sterilizing" a dungeon, and clearing the intended number of groups, in order to progress further into the dungeon. For the most part, it's pretty easy to tell which is which - if you can avoid aggroing a group without having to resort to climbing walls or using holes in the map, then they can be bypassed. If it is not possible to avoid said group unless you do use those tricks, then they're probably meant to be fought.
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
Good then keep reiterating those suggestions, in hopes devs may make some changes. It may sound like a broken record. But as long as its sensible no harm done.
Nobody yet said any valid point for clearing 100% of dungeon (besides sasheria suggestion from page 15), what's the point in doing that? Scraps of copper? Useless green/blue items? Wasting time to have a chance to get an epic item?
Fully clearing dungeon once sure is fun but doing it 5-6th time can be boring and the reward is same no matter how many mobs you'll kill on the way.
So here's the question: What's the point of clearing dungeon out of every trash mob?
Comments
Cause I'm tired of seeing 14k gs **** players that can't menage a single fight, because they are accustomed to pike or skip most of the content.
I can still move.
I can still fight.
I will never give up!
Holy St. Maria that was such a preach! Agreed!
that cant be more far from the truth...the guys that skipp have a lott more skill then the guys who dont.it can happen first time after patch thats all...i know your problem you cant handle a few jumps lol and on top of that you cant stand that some are realy rich in the game coz of it. go and kill magma 9gs dude
If trash mobs would drop unicorn/drake seals then maybe killing them wouldn't be pointless.
Great suggestion! But that would ONLY work if the equipment you get with them was not Bind on Pickup, hence is useless to get any reasonable AD, which is where the real problem is now with this game.
seal items really shouldn't be BoP. It's made GG a ghost town. All seal items should be tradable and sellable. Seal items really aren't the best in game. The best rings and belts drop in CN (and karrundax) so why are seal vendors BoP?
OK, I can feel the OPs pain and frustration regarding this issue. I can also relate to the difficulty in terms of time spent on some of the dungeons choco mentions in above post. (I see some people bragging about how cool and awesome and full of win their characters are, that they can clear entire dungeons in less time without exploits. Frankly I have not met a single one of these. Unless, you are a total Pay2win type starting all T2s with a 12k+ GS, I find you hard to believe. Please post or link some videos where your toons with 9k-ish GS clear dungeons below the time estimates provided by choco for it to sound believable). There also seems a third group trying to close the argument by stating that it is the Dev's fault.
It does appear that the only solution at the moment is to find a like-minded group to do dungeons with rather than doing it with PUGs. I am sure that a mix of both groups would just lead to conflicts of interest and thereby resulting in a failed attempt. Don't agree that all the exploiters are just bad players, I think several may be very skillful, also probably just leveling alts after they have cleared the dungeons on their mains. Also agree with other posts that have stressed that unless and until all exploits are patched, exploiters will exploit.
We can all hope that the Devs will patch many of these bugs/exploits forcing everyone to be on the same page, but I doubt that this will happen. Why? Look at the Feywild patch where the Devs have picked the easy way out- make all the DD chest items BoP, so that it is no longer worthwhile to run dungeons for money but only when you want specific gear for yourself. So people trying to quick farm may have to just move on to other methods of exploiting for money.
I know thats a long post but that is my two cents worth. :rolleyes:
Absolutely! I was laughing so hard with my buddies. It was funny, but also a bit sad, if you think about the mindset of the player-base.
temple of the spider with exploits: 15-30 minutes
without: 45-90
Just to get this straight: Passing slow walking and high hp mobs like driders or jumping over the ledge before the last door in Spider is exploiting?
Even without this Spider is done in 20 min.
Or throwing mobs of ledges?
The difficulty spike is ridiculous. The T1 dungeons are a breeze, never had a problem there, but then the moment I started doing T2 dungeons, bam. The **** becomes nearly unplayable. I typically don't exploit in MMOs - it seems to beat the fun out of the game, but in this case, well. I would like to get geared to do content with my guild, and I typically only have an hour or so a day to play - if the dungeons could be cleared in about an hour with a decent GS of 1-2k, then I'd ****ing do that, but as it stands, I can't, nor can I always expect my guildies/friends to be on to run dungeons with them.
So where does that me? Exploiting, since it's the only reasonable way I can complete a dungeon and get gear in a reasonable amount of ****ing time.
replacing players is #1 top thing players asked for - still not happened, not even a whiff of interest from devs.
Ok so it's fair for someone to jump into an instance right at the final boss since another player dropped? There has to be a point at which you can't have new players, and before any bosses are killed seems to be the logical choice. Also with the new system why would you want to skip mini bosses? I did a karru and a FH yesterday, got pyrotechnic band in karru and an icon from FH. What do you think the DD chest gave me? 4k rough AD. what do you think the other items gave me? Lol 80k for pyro and 70k for crappy icon, why would I not want to do the earlier bosses?
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
It seems more fair then to have the remaining four players penalized.
Let the party leader invite people if someone quits then. Also default should be a fresh queue instance but another option to also allow you to fill the empty spots from the queue system. Of course to prevent exploiters from benefiting, how about making them enter at the beginning of the dungeon and make return to instance drop you at the beginning when re-entering. The fact that it ports you forward is being massively abused.
If they disconnect they can rejoin. If they quit maybe you should have put a more reliable team together. Pugging is the most horrible idea ever. Just don't do it. At the very least put your team together in zone chat.
Not to mention what is stopping a group from just booting a team member at last boss since they'll get a replacement? Oh look so and so just got on, lets boot this stupid pug and grab a guildee... people would cry 10 times harder over stuff like that.
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
1-2 new players joining at the end is far far desirable than 3-4 others getting @#$ed over.
yeah....
People having standarts and values should join the borg, right? another case of parenting faillure right here...
I bet you are so proud of yourself for being a cheater, noskill , and with awfull ****ty arrogant personality..
but hey ppl like you and the other **** players/persons are the majority in this game...
and BTW mods.... if you come to the topics for deleting posts like you did for 2 of my posts in this topic, why dont you push the subject to the right ears? Or any topic for that matters?
because you are really doing a very HAMSTER work.... too many topics without any answers, too many problems withou any hope of comunication and you waste your time deleting posts...
oh and the same game's bug forums provide lots of communication to the players. NWO and the players would benefit immensely from this, as currently we essentially get no communication whatsoever.
here are their bug forms:
Forum: Bug Reports
Sub-Forums:
In-Game Bugs
Resolved Issues
Accepted Bugs
Insufficient Information
Unable to Verify
Confirmed
Planning to Address
Fixed
Working as Intended
Duplicate Bugs
Not a Bug Report
i am a bit perplexed by the combination of those two statements in one post..
Donatello from TMNT on the NES should be the next class they make!
i'm not interested in proving you wrong as stereotyping is inherently false.
But perhaps you didnt understand my comment and maybe this will help:
Psychological projection ... a defense mechanism in which a person unconsciously rejects his or her own unacceptable attributes by ascribing them to objects or persons in the outside world.
Here's the link if you have any inclination to learn more.
It is our nature to be lazy (generally) why do x2 the work when .5 of the work YIELD the same results?
This is why the devs have to rework the dungeons. Make it worth the players' while to do a full clear.
Couple of example that it could work (again, this takes a recode and probably a lot of work/patches)
1 trash mob = 10 adds at final boss
for every 1% clear you get a better chance of getting higher loot or "more loot"
100% clear means everyone will get a personal drop
sub boss/mini boss - if left alone (skipped) they will provide a perma buff on the final boss AND help (buff don't go away even after the mini boss dies)
sub boss/mini boss left alive COULD introduce extra mechanics into the final fight - longer stun, random aoe damage, curse (take more damage) slower movement speed etc etc.
Trash mobs that are not killed CAN come and help the final boss (which can make a final fight even more difficult)
There has to be reward so maybe every sub boss defeated, you can get extra tokens (i.e. 1 boss = 1 token for loot, 4 bosses = 10 tokens. bonus given at the end of the run?
This will require that players cannot be booted by a single player. It has to be a group effort AND the booted player will STILL get rewarded for current participation (i.e. don't get lock out of loot of say 2 bosses out of 5 are defeated and still get a roll and 3 tokens.
Please review my campaign and I'll return the favor.
What is the point of getting gear if you are skipping all of the content to get it? To stand in town with it? I just don't understand why you would want to ruin the game.
Catalina Erantzo - GWF 13.9K GS
<Future> Guild on Dragon - Legit Non Exploit Guild (We are always recruiting great players)
Future Guild Recruitment Thread: http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?475381-lt-Future-gt-Legit-Non-Exploit-Guild-Recruiting
Fox Stevenson - Sandblast
Oh Wonder - Without You
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
- Dylan Thomas
Actually if you read through the forums you will see time after time where I have given suggestions on how to fix the problem.... but at the end of the day, you either choose to exploit or you don't. My guild doesn't HAVE to cheat... we know that it is there.. but we choose to play the game legit. That is the difference.
My number 1 fix is to create a shard where we can put all the cheaters. Let them have DD 24 hours a day. When DD pops, they zone into the dungeon and all the bosses are at the entrance -- no trash. They all fall over and die and hand them 5 sets a piece of T2 BOE equipment. This is the level of play they are looking for, they should love that.
Catalina Erantzo - GWF 13.9K GS
<Future> Guild on Dragon - Legit Non Exploit Guild (We are always recruiting great players)
Future Guild Recruitment Thread: http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?475381-lt-Future-gt-Legit-Non-Exploit-Guild-Recruiting
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
No sense in trying to control others.
Fox Stevenson - Sandblast
Oh Wonder - Without You
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
- Dylan Thomas
Fully clearing dungeon once sure is fun but doing it 5-6th time can be boring and the reward is same no matter how many mobs you'll kill on the way.
So here's the question: What's the point of clearing dungeon out of every trash mob?