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We clairification ON whats an exploit and whats not.

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  • kalltorkalltor Member Posts: 16 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    Most decent MMO's don't hit the ban hammer straight away, there is a notification and removal of illegal assets and at second or third exploit you get temp banned or perma.
    But I suppose PWE affords the bad publicity and the loss of customers considering how they are treating the players when the developers mess up repeatedly to implement features. I've never met a MMO where you can get banned so easily for such a useless thing when in fact it's their fault. Moving the guilt, is in my opinion , lack of professionalism.
  • enidvenidv Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    stoxbox2 wrote: »
    This! Plus in some cases repeat offenders, people who have been suspended already have managed to get away with yet another suspension.
    First time "offender" here.

    Permanent ban.
  • lostmarblesherelostmarbleshere Banned Users Posts: 654 Bounty Hunter
    edited August 2013
    If we had the data to look at we would see its the people that dont pay into the game that get the worst of the bans, plain and simple. Its in the mumbojumbo legal stuff cryptic can do whatever they want and dont have to say anything on why they did whatever. I will try and do a poll see how that goes they wont let it happen probly.
  • kalltorkalltor Member Posts: 16 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    pwe4lif wrote: »
    Well like i stated in my original post. Individuals WILL be 1099'ed(this is a income reporting form similar to a W2 that gets sent to the individual and to the IRS only there is no taxes coming out of the income) by whatever company the middle man is for the transcation. This is allready a federal law. And in regards to the person purchasing it free of sales tax, i allready outlined that in my original post as well.


    This is irrelevant talk, they own everything.
    Only thing you CAN DO is bad, very bad publicity.
  • lostmarblesherelostmarbleshere Banned Users Posts: 654 Bounty Hunter
    edited August 2013
    ok enough with the taxes your off topic and should have those posts removed or start your own topic. Or does this actually have something to do with this topic of the thread
  • darkjeffdarkjeff Member Posts: 2,590 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    ok enough with the taxes your off topic and should have those posts removed or start your own topic. Or does this actually have something to do with this topic of the thread

    It's in relation to the valuation of virtual goods, and why there may be legal reasons they didn't just roll back the gains from the nightmare lockboxes. Someone pointed out the EULA gives them the right to do so, and I was pointing out that the legal status of virtual goods hasn't actually been properly defined yet. Companies aren't interested in setting up legal challenges that may erode their (currently arbitrary) rights over the virtual goods, which has been considered to have value.

    While D3's RMAH is straight forward in terms of taxation (and the items have definite monetary value), a market that doesn't explicitly tie into real currency isn't very well regulated/taxed.

    In any case, we'll stop our boring international finance talk, m'kay? :p
  • sedryntyrossedryntyros Member Posts: 293 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    I really hope somebody on the PWE Public Relations team reads one of these threads. These discussions should be all the evidence they need that it'd be in their best interest make a carefully crafted public statement or two about these issues. Their mishandling of these incidents has done far, far more damage to the game then the bugs themselves.
  • dante124pldante124pl Member Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    dunno about ur perma bans but when i mailed them i got answer within 2 hours that i recived 1 week ban for feywild quest exploit
  • lewstelamon01lewstelamon01 Member Posts: 7,415 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    Please be aware that reposting correspondence from CS is a violation of RoC and refrain from doing so.
    ROLL TIDE ROLL

    Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?

    PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com
  • prettyboysetaprettyboyseta Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 62
    edited August 2013
    tl;dr
    I forgot which page but I agree with the post that said what the gaming company considers as an exploit is subject to how it affects the business/profits. as I understand it, items like mounts have limited purpose and in-game value while loopholes in quests have far wider effects and items involved, so the players who engaged in the latter whether once or several times over get punished. if it costs Cryptic more (programming-techie-stuff-wise) to have this certain "rare" item pop up more than intended in their watchlist/database then maybe, that's how they decide it's a punishable offense worth this xlenght of ban.
    Wizard.jpg
  • lostmarblesherelostmarbleshere Banned Users Posts: 654 Bounty Hunter
    edited August 2013
    I really hope somebody on the PWE Public Relations team reads one of these threads. These discussions should be all the evidence they need that it'd be in their best interest make a carefully crafted public statement or two about these issues. Their mishandling of these incidents has done far, far more damage to the game then the bugs themselves.

    I know they probly wont ever even hear about this thread. But at least we are talking about it. And the more people know about this issue the better we as a community can band together. Maybe at some point we will get a legal mumbojumbo answer that says neither one thing or the other, a play on words that mean nothing. Which would make even more people even more angry about these issues. They are a corporation after all. Psychopathic tendencies has been documented of corporations. They do not have empathy to customers only to money.
  • zebularzebular Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 15,270 Community Moderator
    edited August 2013
    Moderator Notice:
    . . . . . Just a reminder folks, detailing of exploits is not okay. Don't mention specific exploits nor convey how they are reproduced. Thanks!

    Thread Cleansed!
    Section III - Prohibited Topics/Posts

    Rule 3.01 - No Posting of Exploit Details
    . . . . The forums are not the place to post Exploit Reports or name Exploiters or other bad behavior. (See Rules 1.03 & 2.05) To alert the Cryptic team of a cheater or an exploiter, press H key or the ? on the menu bar to contact a GM. Then press the BEHAVIOR button. You can also contact customer service out of game via Support, or E-Mail customerservice@perfectworld.com -- especially if you have screenshots or other details.

    . . . . After reporting your findings in game or via email, if you you feel it hasn't been addressed properly or in a reasonable time frame, you can contact our Community Managers, PinPointError or Sominator, or one of the Community Moderators via personal message. Naturally, if you think you've found a major exploit that needs the immediate attention of the Cryptic team, report it via E-Mail and PM a Community Moderator immediately.
  • axis40axis40 Member Posts: 125 Bounty Hunter
    edited August 2013
    enidv wrote: »
    First time "offender" here.

    Permanent ban.

    same here done 50%less then most.
  • hendy74000hendy74000 Banned Users Posts: 21 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    This account has been banned for abusing an exploit involving <removed details> ... I do not exploit it includes <removed details> speak on?
  • bluedarkybluedarky Member Posts: 1,232 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    Does everyone want to know the real reason why there wasn't a rollback last Thursday, because if there had been a rollback then the servers could have been down for up too 12 more hours taking the servers down for most of Thursday.

    A rollback isn't a simple procedure, first they need to replace the data on the main server with the backup (you think it's a big install on our end, I'd be surprised if it's less than half a terrabyte on their end), then they need to correctly boot up the server and run checks to ensure that the server booted up correctly, check that the rollback hasn't caused any issues, install the new patch to replace the drop rates (and possibly the Feywild update depending on their backup policy), and finally open the doors for us to play.

    At the end of the day they decided that a few extra Nightmare drops weren't worth taking the server down for most of the day on the day of the biggest update to the game since the launch day patch and acted in a manner to bring the servers back up as fast as possible.

    Yes, it may have been profit motivated, but at the same time we'd have had a similar amount of backlash if the server had been down for most of Thursday when people wanted to play.
  • shelendil5shelendil5 Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    enidv wrote: »
    First time "offender" here.

    Permanent ban.

    Ditto. Also Founder's Pack purchaser.

    The most frustrating thing about this is that you are unable to access the customer support page if you are banned. Thus there is no open line of communication available.
  • axis40axis40 Member Posts: 125 Bounty Hunter
    edited August 2013
    bluedarky wrote: »
    Does everyone want to know the real reason why there wasn't a rollback last Thursday, because if there had been a rollback then the servers could have been down for up too 12 more hours taking the servers down for most of Thursday.

    A rollback isn't a simple procedure, first they need to replace the data on the main server with the backup (you think it's a big install on our end, I'd be surprised if it's less than half a terrabyte on their end), then they need to correctly boot up the server and run checks to ensure that the server booted up correctly, check that the rollback hasn't caused any issues, install the new patch to replace the drop rates (and possibly the Feywild update depending on their backup policy), and finally open the doors for us to play.

    At the end of the day they decided that a few extra Nightmare drops weren't worth taking the server down for most of the day on the day of the biggest update to the game since the launch day patch and acted in a manner to bring the servers back up as fast as possible.

    Yes, it may have been profit motivated, but at the same time we'd have had a similar amount of backlash if the server had been down for most of Thursday when people wanted to play.




    your last sentance is just ridiculous a lott of people cant play now lol....
  • lewstelamon01lewstelamon01 Member Posts: 7,415 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    shelendil5 wrote: »
    Ditto. Also Founder's Pack purchaser.

    The most frustrating thing about this is that you are unable to access the customer support page if you are banned. Thus there is no open line of communication available.

    Not true. You can always email support if you can't access the page for any reason: customerservice@perfectworld.com
    ROLL TIDE ROLL

    Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?

    PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com
  • freedumb4evafreedumb4eva Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 342
    edited August 2013
    CRYPTIC NEEDS A BETTER QA TEAM IN ORDER TO MAKE SURE THAT THESE BUGS DON'T GO LIVE.

    Players pay their salary and at the same time have to be their QA team. Now the players are being banned because Cryptic releases ****ed up content. It's total bull ****.

    Every single player in this game is an exploiter then. I can guarantee that.

    If something is possible in the game without the use of any hack, then no player should ever be banned for it. That is the development team's fault and the QA team's fault. I don't care if it makes a player a billion AD, if it exists in the game then no player should be banned. If the development team doesn't like what has happened then hire a better team or more staff. Do something proactive, not a ban cycle on players. Carrying out these same idiotic policies will only produce more garbage.

    Get a QA team, release content to preview earlier, actually fix the bugs, and stop taking out your shifty development on the players.
  • hendy74000hendy74000 Banned Users Posts: 21 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    the fastest way is to send this email or email my country, France? (customerservice.fr @ perfectworld.com)
  • lewstelamon01lewstelamon01 Member Posts: 7,415 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    hendy74000 wrote: »
    the fastest way is to send this email or email my country, France? (customerservice.fr @ perfectworld.com)

    The email provided is the correct email address. No other country domain is needed.
    ROLL TIDE ROLL

    Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?

    PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com
  • drakesigardrakesigar Member Posts: 231 Bounty Hunter
    edited August 2013
    bluedarky wrote: »
    Does everyone want to know the real reason why there wasn't a rollback last Thursday, because if there had been a rollback then the servers could have been down for up too 12 more hours taking the servers down for most of Thursday.

    A rollback isn't a simple procedure, first they need to replace the data on the main server with the backup (you think it's a big install on our end, I'd be surprised if it's less than half a terrabyte on their end), then they need to correctly boot up the server and run checks to ensure that the server booted up correctly, check that the rollback hasn't caused any issues, install the new patch to replace the drop rates (and possibly the Feywild update depending on their backup policy), and finally open the doors for us to play.

    At the end of the day they decided that a few extra Nightmare drops weren't worth taking the server down for most of the day on the day of the biggest update to the game since the launch day patch and acted in a manner to bring the servers back up as fast as possible.

    Yes, it may have been profit motivated, but at the same time we'd have had a similar amount of backlash if the server had been down for most of Thursday when people wanted to play.

    It is one thing not to resort to a rollback, it is another to call the exploiters 'lucky' and as far as I know, let them off scot free. Is it any wonder several people I know who previously refused to use exploits, vowed to take advantage of any 'lucky' occurrence from then on? Mixed messages.
    Check out Adventuring College! A 20 minute male-centric comedic solo adventure.
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  • zebularzebular Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 15,270 Community Moderator
    edited August 2013
    hendy74000 wrote: »
    the fastest way is to send this email or email my country, France? (customerservice.fr @ perfectworld.com)
    Just customerservice@perfectworld.com - no prefixes or suffixes.
  • axis40axis40 Member Posts: 125 Bounty Hunter
    edited August 2013
    Not true. You can always email support if you can't access the page for any reason: customerservice@perfectworld.com

    yes you can....dont bother tho perma bann is perma bann
  • hendy74000hendy74000 Banned Users Posts: 21 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    should know how to make the French who do not understand English? I sent a ticket 3 days I have had no response! DUPLICATE DUPLICATE but no response
  • bluedarkybluedarky Member Posts: 1,232 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    axis40 wrote: »
    your last sentance is just ridiculous a lott of people cant play now lol....

    I assume you're referring to the recent bans, because the sentence does make sense and the bans would have happened if they had done a rollback on Thursday anyway.

    Either way, Cryptic does need to make sure that they either take action quickly or don't just jump on people with bans for the recent exploit, as it stands it's the ultimate griefing tool for griefers with throwaway accounts or know how to get up to 60 in a few days.
  • koboldbard2koboldbard2 Banned Users Posts: 334 Bounty Hunter
    edited August 2013
    zebular wrote: »
    Just a reminder folks, detailing of exploits is not okay. Don't mention specific exploits nor convey how they are reproduced.
    Well, since we don't know what's an exploit and that's the whole point of this thread...
  • axis40axis40 Member Posts: 125 Bounty Hunter
    edited August 2013
    bluedarky wrote: »
    I assume you're referring to the recent bans, because the sentence does make sense and the bans would have happened if they had done a rollback on Thursday anyway.

    Either way, Cryptic does need to make sure that they either take action quickly or don't just jump on people with bans for the recent exploit, as it stands it's the ultimate griefing tool for griefers with throwaway accounts or know how to get up to 60 in a few days.


    that is very far from the truth. can you honestly say that exploiters wouldn't done different if there was some some action other that approval.which led to the atmosfere of: hey i can do what i want....if some a getting free horse sure i can get a free quest lol.
  • bluedarkybluedarky Member Posts: 1,232 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    drakesigar wrote: »
    It is one thing not to resort to a rollback, it is another to call the exploiters 'lucky' and as far as I know, let them off scot free. Is it any wonder several people I know who previously refused to use exploits, vowed to take advantage of any 'lucky' occurrence from then on? Mixed messages.

    And what else should they have done, gone through and deleted each Nightmare mount that dropped in the 30-40 minutes? Banned the accounts that opened more than X lockboxes in the time it was up? Performed character specific rollbacks?

    Cryptic isn't the first MMO company to attempt to pass of a bug like this, the fact is that the bug was too fast in coming up for a rollback to be worth the additional downtime, any other course of action would have resulted in more downtime and/or targeted innocent people who just brought a few keys or stocked up on keys intending to buy lockboxes from the exchange whilst the price would be at it's lowest. (Don't forget that not everyone who stocked up on keys would have been intending to abuse the enhanced drop rate).

    All in all Cryptic did the analysis and decided to just leave things as they were, yes there is a possibility that they could have worded things better, but the decision was a sound one and done with the best intent towards the players and the game.
    axis40 wrote: »
    that is very far from the truth. can you honestly say that exploiters wouldn't done different if there was some some action other that approval.which led to the atmosfere of: hey i can do what i want....if some a getting free horse sure i can get a free quest lol.

    It's not as far as you'd think, I've seen people do stupider things in MMOs including continuing to rename their character and reload their costume in CO blatantly ripping a trademarked character despite it being changed to the generic model and generichero##### several times and complaining on the forums about it.

    There might not have been so many people intending to do it but there still would have been people doing it and complaining on the forums about it after being banned.
  • axis40axis40 Member Posts: 125 Bounty Hunter
    edited August 2013
    bluedarky wrote: »
    And what else should they have done, gone through and deleted each Nightmare mount that dropped in the 30-40 minutes? Banned the accounts that opened more than X lockboxes in the time it was up? Performed character specific rollbacks?

    Cryptic isn't the first MMO company to attempt to pass of a bug like this, the fact is that the bug was too fast in coming up for a rollback to be worth the additional downtime, any other course of action would have resulted in more downtime and/or targeted innocent people who just brought a few keys or stocked up on keys intending to buy lockboxes from the exchange whilst the price would be at it's lowest. (Don't forget that not everyone who stocked up on keys would have been intending to abuse the enhanced drop rate).

    All in all Cryptic did the analysis and decided to just leave things as they were, yes there is a possibility that they could have worded things better, but the decision was a sound one and done with the best intent towards the players and the game.

    on what criteria can you say someone is quilty for couple of days or for perma bann. then you cant possibly say there are inocent people in the game.coz to perma ban couple of days seems inocent lol.
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