Most decent MMO's don't hit the ban hammer straight away, there is a notification and removal of illegal assets and at second or third exploit you get temp banned or perma.
But I suppose PWE affords the bad publicity and the loss of customers considering how they are treating the players when the developers mess up repeatedly to implement features. I've never met a MMO where you can get banned so easily for such a useless thing when in fact it's their fault. Moving the guilt, is in my opinion , lack of professionalism.
If we had the data to look at we would see its the people that dont pay into the game that get the worst of the bans, plain and simple. Its in the mumbojumbo legal stuff cryptic can do whatever they want and dont have to say anything on why they did whatever. I will try and do a poll see how that goes they wont let it happen probly.
Well like i stated in my original post. Individuals WILL be 1099'ed(this is a income reporting form similar to a W2 that gets sent to the individual and to the IRS only there is no taxes coming out of the income) by whatever company the middle man is for the transcation. This is allready a federal law. And in regards to the person purchasing it free of sales tax, i allready outlined that in my original post as well.
This is irrelevant talk, they own everything.
Only thing you CAN DO is bad, very bad publicity.
ok enough with the taxes your off topic and should have those posts removed or start your own topic. Or does this actually have something to do with this topic of the thread
ok enough with the taxes your off topic and should have those posts removed or start your own topic. Or does this actually have something to do with this topic of the thread
It's in relation to the valuation of virtual goods, and why there may be legal reasons they didn't just roll back the gains from the nightmare lockboxes. Someone pointed out the EULA gives them the right to do so, and I was pointing out that the legal status of virtual goods hasn't actually been properly defined yet. Companies aren't interested in setting up legal challenges that may erode their (currently arbitrary) rights over the virtual goods, which has been considered to have value.
While D3's RMAH is straight forward in terms of taxation (and the items have definite monetary value), a market that doesn't explicitly tie into real currency isn't very well regulated/taxed.
In any case, we'll stop our boring international finance talk, m'kay?
I really hope somebody on the PWE Public Relations team reads one of these threads. These discussions should be all the evidence they need that it'd be in their best interest make a carefully crafted public statement or two about these issues. Their mishandling of these incidents has done far, far more damage to the game then the bugs themselves.
tl;dr
I forgot which page but I agree with the post that said what the gaming company considers as an exploit is subject to how it affects the business/profits. as I understand it, items like mounts have limited purpose and in-game value while loopholes in quests have far wider effects and items involved, so the players who engaged in the latter whether once or several times over get punished. if it costs Cryptic more (programming-techie-stuff-wise) to have this certain "rare" item pop up more than intended in their watchlist/database then maybe, that's how they decide it's a punishable offense worth this xlenght of ban.
I really hope somebody on the PWE Public Relations team reads one of these threads. These discussions should be all the evidence they need that it'd be in their best interest make a carefully crafted public statement or two about these issues. Their mishandling of these incidents has done far, far more damage to the game then the bugs themselves.
I know they probly wont ever even hear about this thread. But at least we are talking about it. And the more people know about this issue the better we as a community can band together. Maybe at some point we will get a legal mumbojumbo answer that says neither one thing or the other, a play on words that mean nothing. Which would make even more people even more angry about these issues. They are a corporation after all. Psychopathic tendencies has been documented of corporations. They do not have empathy to customers only to money.
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zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
edited August 2013
Moderator Notice: . . . . . Just a reminder folks, detailing of exploits is not okay. Don't mention specific exploits nor convey how they are reproduced. Thanks!
. . . . The forums are not the place to post Exploit Reports or name Exploiters or other bad behavior. (See Rules 1.03 & 2.05) To alert the Cryptic team of a cheater or an exploiter, press H key or the ? on the menu bar to contact a GM. Then press the BEHAVIOR button. You can also contact customer service out of game via Support, or E-Mail customerservice@perfectworld.com -- especially if you have screenshots or other details.
. . . . After reporting your findings in game or via email, if you you feel it hasn't been addressed properly or in a reasonable time frame, you can contact our Community Managers, PinPointError or Sominator, or one of the Community Moderators via personal message. Naturally, if you think you've found a major exploit that needs the immediate attention of the Cryptic team, report it via E-Mail and PM a Community Moderator immediately.
Does everyone want to know the real reason why there wasn't a rollback last Thursday, because if there had been a rollback then the servers could have been down for up too 12 more hours taking the servers down for most of Thursday.
A rollback isn't a simple procedure, first they need to replace the data on the main server with the backup (you think it's a big install on our end, I'd be surprised if it's less than half a terrabyte on their end), then they need to correctly boot up the server and run checks to ensure that the server booted up correctly, check that the rollback hasn't caused any issues, install the new patch to replace the drop rates (and possibly the Feywild update depending on their backup policy), and finally open the doors for us to play.
At the end of the day they decided that a few extra Nightmare drops weren't worth taking the server down for most of the day on the day of the biggest update to the game since the launch day patch and acted in a manner to bring the servers back up as fast as possible.
Yes, it may have been profit motivated, but at the same time we'd have had a similar amount of backlash if the server had been down for most of Thursday when people wanted to play.
The most frustrating thing about this is that you are unable to access the customer support page if you are banned. Thus there is no open line of communication available.
Does everyone want to know the real reason why there wasn't a rollback last Thursday, because if there had been a rollback then the servers could have been down for up too 12 more hours taking the servers down for most of Thursday.
A rollback isn't a simple procedure, first they need to replace the data on the main server with the backup (you think it's a big install on our end, I'd be surprised if it's less than half a terrabyte on their end), then they need to correctly boot up the server and run checks to ensure that the server booted up correctly, check that the rollback hasn't caused any issues, install the new patch to replace the drop rates (and possibly the Feywild update depending on their backup policy), and finally open the doors for us to play.
At the end of the day they decided that a few extra Nightmare drops weren't worth taking the server down for most of the day on the day of the biggest update to the game since the launch day patch and acted in a manner to bring the servers back up as fast as possible.
Yes, it may have been profit motivated, but at the same time we'd have had a similar amount of backlash if the server had been down for most of Thursday when people wanted to play.
your last sentance is just ridiculous a lott of people cant play now lol....
The most frustrating thing about this is that you are unable to access the customer support page if you are banned. Thus there is no open line of communication available.
CRYPTIC NEEDS A BETTER QA TEAM IN ORDER TO MAKE SURE THAT THESE BUGS DON'T GO LIVE.
Players pay their salary and at the same time have to be their QA team. Now the players are being banned because Cryptic releases ****ed up content. It's total bull ****.
Every single player in this game is an exploiter then. I can guarantee that.
If something is possible in the game without the use of any hack, then no player should ever be banned for it. That is the development team's fault and the QA team's fault. I don't care if it makes a player a billion AD, if it exists in the game then no player should be banned. If the development team doesn't like what has happened then hire a better team or more staff. Do something proactive, not a ban cycle on players. Carrying out these same idiotic policies will only produce more garbage.
Get a QA team, release content to preview earlier, actually fix the bugs, and stop taking out your shifty development on the players.
Does everyone want to know the real reason why there wasn't a rollback last Thursday, because if there had been a rollback then the servers could have been down for up too 12 more hours taking the servers down for most of Thursday.
A rollback isn't a simple procedure, first they need to replace the data on the main server with the backup (you think it's a big install on our end, I'd be surprised if it's less than half a terrabyte on their end), then they need to correctly boot up the server and run checks to ensure that the server booted up correctly, check that the rollback hasn't caused any issues, install the new patch to replace the drop rates (and possibly the Feywild update depending on their backup policy), and finally open the doors for us to play.
At the end of the day they decided that a few extra Nightmare drops weren't worth taking the server down for most of the day on the day of the biggest update to the game since the launch day patch and acted in a manner to bring the servers back up as fast as possible.
Yes, it may have been profit motivated, but at the same time we'd have had a similar amount of backlash if the server had been down for most of Thursday when people wanted to play.
It is one thing not to resort to a rollback, it is another to call the exploiters 'lucky' and as far as I know, let them off scot free. Is it any wonder several people I know who previously refused to use exploits, vowed to take advantage of any 'lucky' occurrence from then on? Mixed messages.
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zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
your last sentance is just ridiculous a lott of people cant play now lol....
I assume you're referring to the recent bans, because the sentence does make sense and the bans would have happened if they had done a rollback on Thursday anyway.
Either way, Cryptic does need to make sure that they either take action quickly or don't just jump on people with bans for the recent exploit, as it stands it's the ultimate griefing tool for griefers with throwaway accounts or know how to get up to 60 in a few days.
I assume you're referring to the recent bans, because the sentence does make sense and the bans would have happened if they had done a rollback on Thursday anyway.
Either way, Cryptic does need to make sure that they either take action quickly or don't just jump on people with bans for the recent exploit, as it stands it's the ultimate griefing tool for griefers with throwaway accounts or know how to get up to 60 in a few days.
that is very far from the truth. can you honestly say that exploiters wouldn't done different if there was some some action other that approval.which led to the atmosfere of: hey i can do what i want....if some a getting free horse sure i can get a free quest lol.
It is one thing not to resort to a rollback, it is another to call the exploiters 'lucky' and as far as I know, let them off scot free. Is it any wonder several people I know who previously refused to use exploits, vowed to take advantage of any 'lucky' occurrence from then on? Mixed messages.
And what else should they have done, gone through and deleted each Nightmare mount that dropped in the 30-40 minutes? Banned the accounts that opened more than X lockboxes in the time it was up? Performed character specific rollbacks?
Cryptic isn't the first MMO company to attempt to pass of a bug like this, the fact is that the bug was too fast in coming up for a rollback to be worth the additional downtime, any other course of action would have resulted in more downtime and/or targeted innocent people who just brought a few keys or stocked up on keys intending to buy lockboxes from the exchange whilst the price would be at it's lowest. (Don't forget that not everyone who stocked up on keys would have been intending to abuse the enhanced drop rate).
All in all Cryptic did the analysis and decided to just leave things as they were, yes there is a possibility that they could have worded things better, but the decision was a sound one and done with the best intent towards the players and the game.
that is very far from the truth. can you honestly say that exploiters wouldn't done different if there was some some action other that approval.which led to the atmosfere of: hey i can do what i want....if some a getting free horse sure i can get a free quest lol.
It's not as far as you'd think, I've seen people do stupider things in MMOs including continuing to rename their character and reload their costume in CO blatantly ripping a trademarked character despite it being changed to the generic model and generichero##### several times and complaining on the forums about it.
There might not have been so many people intending to do it but there still would have been people doing it and complaining on the forums about it after being banned.
And what else should they have done, gone through and deleted each Nightmare mount that dropped in the 30-40 minutes? Banned the accounts that opened more than X lockboxes in the time it was up? Performed character specific rollbacks?
Cryptic isn't the first MMO company to attempt to pass of a bug like this, the fact is that the bug was too fast in coming up for a rollback to be worth the additional downtime, any other course of action would have resulted in more downtime and/or targeted innocent people who just brought a few keys or stocked up on keys intending to buy lockboxes from the exchange whilst the price would be at it's lowest. (Don't forget that not everyone who stocked up on keys would have been intending to abuse the enhanced drop rate).
All in all Cryptic did the analysis and decided to just leave things as they were, yes there is a possibility that they could have worded things better, but the decision was a sound one and done with the best intent towards the players and the game.
on what criteria can you say someone is quilty for couple of days or for perma bann. then you cant possibly say there are inocent people in the game.coz to perma ban couple of days seems inocent lol.
Comments
But I suppose PWE affords the bad publicity and the loss of customers considering how they are treating the players when the developers mess up repeatedly to implement features. I've never met a MMO where you can get banned so easily for such a useless thing when in fact it's their fault. Moving the guilt, is in my opinion , lack of professionalism.
Permanent ban.
This is irrelevant talk, they own everything.
Only thing you CAN DO is bad, very bad publicity.
It's in relation to the valuation of virtual goods, and why there may be legal reasons they didn't just roll back the gains from the nightmare lockboxes. Someone pointed out the EULA gives them the right to do so, and I was pointing out that the legal status of virtual goods hasn't actually been properly defined yet. Companies aren't interested in setting up legal challenges that may erode their (currently arbitrary) rights over the virtual goods, which has been considered to have value.
While D3's RMAH is straight forward in terms of taxation (and the items have definite monetary value), a market that doesn't explicitly tie into real currency isn't very well regulated/taxed.
In any case, we'll stop our boring international finance talk, m'kay?
Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com
I forgot which page but I agree with the post that said what the gaming company considers as an exploit is subject to how it affects the business/profits. as I understand it, items like mounts have limited purpose and in-game value while loopholes in quests have far wider effects and items involved, so the players who engaged in the latter whether once or several times over get punished. if it costs Cryptic more (programming-techie-stuff-wise) to have this certain "rare" item pop up more than intended in their watchlist/database then maybe, that's how they decide it's a punishable offense worth this xlenght of ban.
I know they probly wont ever even hear about this thread. But at least we are talking about it. And the more people know about this issue the better we as a community can band together. Maybe at some point we will get a legal mumbojumbo answer that says neither one thing or the other, a play on words that mean nothing. Which would make even more people even more angry about these issues. They are a corporation after all. Psychopathic tendencies has been documented of corporations. They do not have empathy to customers only to money.
. . . . . Just a reminder folks, detailing of exploits is not okay. Don't mention specific exploits nor convey how they are reproduced. Thanks!
Thread Cleansed!
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
same here done 50%less then most.
A rollback isn't a simple procedure, first they need to replace the data on the main server with the backup (you think it's a big install on our end, I'd be surprised if it's less than half a terrabyte on their end), then they need to correctly boot up the server and run checks to ensure that the server booted up correctly, check that the rollback hasn't caused any issues, install the new patch to replace the drop rates (and possibly the Feywild update depending on their backup policy), and finally open the doors for us to play.
At the end of the day they decided that a few extra Nightmare drops weren't worth taking the server down for most of the day on the day of the biggest update to the game since the launch day patch and acted in a manner to bring the servers back up as fast as possible.
Yes, it may have been profit motivated, but at the same time we'd have had a similar amount of backlash if the server had been down for most of Thursday when people wanted to play.
Ditto. Also Founder's Pack purchaser.
The most frustrating thing about this is that you are unable to access the customer support page if you are banned. Thus there is no open line of communication available.
your last sentance is just ridiculous a lott of people cant play now lol....
Not true. You can always email support if you can't access the page for any reason: customerservice@perfectworld.com
Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com
Players pay their salary and at the same time have to be their QA team. Now the players are being banned because Cryptic releases ****ed up content. It's total bull ****.
Every single player in this game is an exploiter then. I can guarantee that.
If something is possible in the game without the use of any hack, then no player should ever be banned for it. That is the development team's fault and the QA team's fault. I don't care if it makes a player a billion AD, if it exists in the game then no player should be banned. If the development team doesn't like what has happened then hire a better team or more staff. Do something proactive, not a ban cycle on players. Carrying out these same idiotic policies will only produce more garbage.
Get a QA team, release content to preview earlier, actually fix the bugs, and stop taking out your shifty development on the players.
The email provided is the correct email address. No other country domain is needed.
Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com
It is one thing not to resort to a rollback, it is another to call the exploiters 'lucky' and as far as I know, let them off scot free. Is it any wonder several people I know who previously refused to use exploits, vowed to take advantage of any 'lucky' occurrence from then on? Mixed messages.
Quest ID: NW-DPCZNUVQ7
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
yes you can....dont bother tho perma bann is perma bann
I assume you're referring to the recent bans, because the sentence does make sense and the bans would have happened if they had done a rollback on Thursday anyway.
Either way, Cryptic does need to make sure that they either take action quickly or don't just jump on people with bans for the recent exploit, as it stands it's the ultimate griefing tool for griefers with throwaway accounts or know how to get up to 60 in a few days.
that is very far from the truth. can you honestly say that exploiters wouldn't done different if there was some some action other that approval.which led to the atmosfere of: hey i can do what i want....if some a getting free horse sure i can get a free quest lol.
And what else should they have done, gone through and deleted each Nightmare mount that dropped in the 30-40 minutes? Banned the accounts that opened more than X lockboxes in the time it was up? Performed character specific rollbacks?
Cryptic isn't the first MMO company to attempt to pass of a bug like this, the fact is that the bug was too fast in coming up for a rollback to be worth the additional downtime, any other course of action would have resulted in more downtime and/or targeted innocent people who just brought a few keys or stocked up on keys intending to buy lockboxes from the exchange whilst the price would be at it's lowest. (Don't forget that not everyone who stocked up on keys would have been intending to abuse the enhanced drop rate).
All in all Cryptic did the analysis and decided to just leave things as they were, yes there is a possibility that they could have worded things better, but the decision was a sound one and done with the best intent towards the players and the game.
It's not as far as you'd think, I've seen people do stupider things in MMOs including continuing to rename their character and reload their costume in CO blatantly ripping a trademarked character despite it being changed to the generic model and generichero##### several times and complaining on the forums about it.
There might not have been so many people intending to do it but there still would have been people doing it and complaining on the forums about it after being banned.
on what criteria can you say someone is quilty for couple of days or for perma bann. then you cant possibly say there are inocent people in the game.coz to perma ban couple of days seems inocent lol.