From what I've read, the nightmare lockbox issue was reported while all the content/changes were still on test server. So their early detection warning system seems to be flawed among so many other things, if this is the case. At least one thing is consistent... incompetence.
Another flaw with the devs. This seems to be the case on most exploits in the game. They get told about it but do nothing to fix them. Thats why i think they let it happen they way it happened. They wanted to make money from it. That fix was done pretty fast. Like they had it ready to go to be uploaded to the servers and test it for short time then made it live. Servers were only down for few hours. Since when have they ever made a exploit fix that quickly.
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bioshrikeMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,729Arc User
If you are attached to your characters, and put time into developing them, you are less likely to simply create a new account and repeat your offenses. If you are a gold seller, you don't really care, and probably have automated scripts to generate an account, run the character through the tutorial, then park themselves by the AH and spam zone chat...
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
From what I've read, the nightmare lockbox issue was reported while all the content/changes were still on test server. So their early detection warning system seems to be flawed among so many other things, if this is the case. At least one thing is consistent... incompetence.
It might also be an indication of the testing or lack of that actually happens either on test servers or during what passes for beta's nowadays. Test servers are more frequently used as ways to promote upcoming stuff to people with hard drive space for an extra client.
Majority of people on wow's test server back when I played that seemed to be focussed on perving the new epics so it's not a new tactic or attitude towards the beta/test servers.
The way the game currently stands it is still not released fully given the fact that at level 30 you are told to choose a paragon path and yet there's only one option. To me that is not something you should find in a launch ready title. Similarly CW's have the option to choose a feat, I think it's renegade path, around level 25 that affects a skill that cannot be used until level 50.
I will accept the fact that exploits can sometimes be tricky to fix but you have to wonder when examples like the CW feat are around that just scream out as suspect design choices leaking past testing.
Yes I see The comment of " Guilty By Association " could be seen as very harsh and subjective, so I would like to put you and me in the position of being in a Guild together.
Now we played with said imaginary guild and we are leveling and grouping normally, we would have to, regardless of our level Know what the play style(s) are of people in this guild, so if we as friends ( Beer Buddies ) know they are using exploits, A.H Bugs to gain astral diamonds, using quest timer bugs, etc. and we are not those types of players to take part in such activity then we would just say, this isn't the play style we like lets look for another guild. ( To Each Their Own )
Now if we know this but decide to stay ( We may still not group with said individuals ) but if " the powers that be " decided to drop the Ban hammer on the whole clan then it would be up to you and me to contact whoever we had to, to rectify the issue. From our end it really sucks to be lumped in with all the exploiters but from yours and my view, until it got sorted out we would have to write it off as being in the wrong place at the wrong time.
However I think I read in this thread some where that these things are handled on a case by case bases.. Not sure on that, and as I said I have not been in any Guild yet so my knowledge is vague at best.
I just find it hard to fathom that if your a person who doesn't believe in the exploit Philosophy, and are in a Guild, that it doesn't come out somewhere along the course of leveling your character that there are people in it that does ( very frequently or as much as they can ) why you wouldn't just up and leave that Guild. I'm starting to ramble now so I'll end this here.
I hope.... This cleared the GBA comment. ( " Nip it in The Bud " may have been more appropriate )
Cheers!
Nice analogy but lets take it another step... So you are in a guild with say 40 people and everyone is a tight knit close group. Everyone talks openly about exploits being bad, and not using them, but 1 moron decides to use them anyway, while acting as if he isn't. Now you have an instance of 40 people banned because one player was a ****** bag, all because of "guilt by association."
Players just simply should not be held accountable for the actions of others. Accountable for their own actions you bet, but considering nobody can personally monitor everyone else in a guilds activities, holding them all accountable is just absurd.
It's like saying all Americans should have been impeached and punished when their president Bill Clinton lied about the Monica Lewinsky incident.
Convict 1 asks Convict 2 what he is in for...
Convict 2 "Ahh I robbed a liquor store, what they get you for?"
Convict 1 "I had a beer with an old army pal who flipped out a week later and shot up a mall."
It's like the old saying, "one rotten apple spoils the whole bunch." It doesn't have to, that is why you toss out the bad apple, not just toss the whole basket of apples.
Here's the thing, lets shift up the exploit into one which allows you to refine an additional 10000 AD per day which can be copied by the same exploit, would anyone who's been banned for the current exploit have thought it just as innocent?
Here's the thing, lets shift up the exploit into one which allows you to refine an additional 10000 AD per day which can be copied by the same exploit, would anyone who's been banned for the current exploit have thought it just as innocent?
Well apparently buying extra purples before the patch was considered a "salvage exploit." Sorry to have gone to the test shard and figured out how to make some extra cash with the update.
Just a side note about the Second Life suits. Second Life in particular is a special case among online "worlds." Second Life maintains an actual exchange rate between their virtual currency and real world currencies, and that is part of what has opened them up to this type of scrutiny. They have already given real world value to their virtual goods, which are often created and traded/sold by the users themselves in a free market system.
I've no doubt that eventually, other online games with similar systems will be at least looked at, but I have a feeling it's going to be a while before laws catch up to that.
Thanks for the info! What about EVE Online? Don't they have something like that too?
Thanks for the info! What about EVE Online? Don't they have something like that too?
Eve's is closer to the system we have in ours with the main difference being that you can exchange the normal currency for the cash shop currency, at a ridiculously high rate.
Second Life on the other hand has only one currency and only 2 ways to obtain it, real money, or sell items.
well i still don't understand how salvaging an item could be an exploit
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bioshrikeMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,729Arc User
edited August 2013
Were people banned for buying cheap purples on the AH just to salvage them?
If that's the case, then wouldn't the devs have to go back and set the minimum price you could list an item to be at or above the salvage value?
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
Players just simply should not be held accountable for the actions of others. Accountable for their own actions you bet, but considering nobody can personally monitor everyone else in a guilds activities, holding them all accountable is just absurd.
I'll Agree with this, and if I was one of the people that got Perma Banned and others didn't for the same offense, your above quote is what I would be telling someone in Customer Service, while also telling them to check over my in game log.
People buying stuff cheap off the AH was a system already in play. Yes it could be considerd an exploit to buy for salvage but if they didnt anticipate players doing something like that then what were they thinking?
Playing the AH is a very common thing in mmo's and the salvaging is an extension of that. As much as I'm against exploits if they dont have the foresight to premptively bop the unsold purples then more fool them.
They need to take a step back and actually try to look at how people play games.
So all those people posting saying to do were banned? I don't think so. I see them still here. Whaa Im confuse.
Edit: Also note. Abmin or whichever CM posted they do not use precedents.
We've entered a house who's entire foundation is built on RNG. Should we be so surprised those that govern the house also use no such precedents but instead also operate on RNG. Not so much.
Either your young or new to MMOs. This is the frank truth.
MMO = RNG, F2P MMO = KINGS OF RNG, When you play YMMV.
People buying stuff cheap off the AH was a system already in play. Yes it could be considerd an exploit to buy for salvage but if they didnt anticipate players doing something like that then what were they thinking?
Playing the AH is a very common thing in mmo's and the salvaging is an extension of that. As much as I'm against exploits if they dont have the foresight to premptively bop the unsold purples then more fool them.
They need to take a step back and actually try to look at how people play games.
Pls, tell me they are not banning people for buying purples at Ah and then salvage.. pls tell that isnt happening.
This is just simply unacceptable, u dont gain that much AD anyways.... its just and investment and with time u will get profit... no big deal. I always got the 24k cap and im not making anything special to get it. I turning my drake seals to slavages... lolol pls tell im not "cheating" just because of that LOL
I can understand temporary ban for the AR exploit (not perm ban) but if this is true they are going too far.
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bioshrikeMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,729Arc User
Pls, tell me they are not banning people for buying purples at Ah and then salvage.. pls tell that isnt happening.
This is just simply unacceptable, u dont gain that much AD anyways.... its just and investment and with time u will get profit... no big deal. I always got the 24k cap and im not making anything special to get it. I turning my drake seals to slavages... lolol pls tell im not "cheating" just because of that LOL
I can understand temporary ban for the AR exploit (not perm ban) but if this is true they are going too far.
I was just asking if this had happened... not saying that it did.
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
edited September 2013
Ok guys the "rumormongering" in this thread is way, way too strong.
So far in the last day or so we've seen...
PWE bans people because they're not American.
PWE bans people because they didn't pay money
PWE bans people because they are in the same guild as some exploiters
PWE bans people because they are salavaging items
PWE bans people for using the Auction House.
What's next? PWE bans people because they are men and not women?
Seriously, please use a bit of common sense and don't create false rumors or buy into them. People got banned. There's one static when people get banned: they're never the ones at fault in their opinion.
Sometimes that's true. Often it's not. So take anything you hear with a grain of salt.
I don't want to close this thread down but this type of behavior will cause us to because it's worse than a sewing circle and doing nothing but making PWE sound worse for what is more than likely nothing but exagerations, misinterpretations or outright lies.
People were banned for exploiting a loophole in the system which allowed them to accumulate a lot of what was intended to be a very rare resource. People knew this was a weekly quest and it was not intended to be done more than once per week. Some people even "sold" the shared quest. That is the only certain information I have at this time.
Anything else is...subject to being completely incorrect "rumormongering." Please don't assist in spreading those rumors and while there may be a grain of truth in each one use your own judment when reading such posts.
Either that or keep repeating how the company bases all decisions on a non precedent. It's a roll of a dice on the users end. Why not close it after you said that? You left it open I know for people to vent, but leaving open left it open to troll. You have to be consistent.
Either that or keep repeating how the company bases all decisions on a non precedent. It's a roll of a dice on the users end. Why not close it after you said that? You left it open I know for people to vent, but leaving open left it open to troll. You have to be consistent.
All disciplinary matters are considered on a case-by-case basis. PWE is not bound by any precedent on one particular issue to act in a similar or identical manner on any future issue. Such decisions are at the sole,final, and absolute discretion of PWE. This is spelled out in ToS.
ROLL TIDE ROLL
Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com
All disciplinary matters are considered on a case-by-case basis. PWE is not bound by any precedent on one particular issue to act in a similar or identical manner on any future issue. Such decisions are at the sole,final, and absolute discretion of PWE. This is spelled out in ToS.
Exactly, its gonna get bypassed by the 50 pages this will become. Just put it in big letters on top the forum. Lock thread and be done.
All disciplinary matters are considered on a case-by-case basis. PWE is not bound by any precedent on one particular issue to act in a similar or identical manner on any future issue. Such decisions are at the sole,final, and absolute discretion of PWE. This is spelled out in ToS.
People were banned for exploiting a loophole in the system which allowed them to accumulate a lot of what was intended to be a very rare resource. People knew this was a weekly quest and it was not intended to be done more than once per week. Some people even "sold" the shared quest. That is the only certain information I have at this time.
Ok this topic is a bit awkward. Because the title clearly states we want clarification on what is and what is not an exploit. The BENEFIT the exploiters had helped them go no more than a couple days ahead of others and I think if you go over sharandar campaign you will see I am correct. When I first did the Arcane Reservoir quest I had one day cool down - so 100 sparks there + 20 from the two days unlock pretty much entire tier until the protective wards that require another 9 days.
So now the question is pretty clear. On what basis you ban an enormous amount of players for abusing a quest that gives them one or two days benefit from others WHILE :
Lot of the player base abuse EVERY dungeon ( a T2 gear item they can sell for let's say 500k AD is equivalent to 20 days AD income, of course the price vary but I just gave a wishful sum ).
Coming back to the drawing board here is the deal :
- The benefit from the Arcane Reservoir was very little to matter, the decision to permanent ban some of those people was pretty much bad in my opinion, of course the community of players asked for the bans crying in forums they have seen people in the third area ...
- The benefits from T2 dungeons which are benefiting "exploiters" and everyone on a massive scale has NOT been looked into since months now.
So question stands : will PWE ban 75% of the player base for the real exploits in dungeons or remain to the silly and useless AR quest? Basically go over to the new anti exploit team and ask them WHAT IS AN EXPLOIT because it's clearly they were impartial judging the "benefit over other players" when hitting ban hammer.
Yes, it's a sad thing to see there are so many bugs and if you drive people away from your game it will become unplayable.
Fine them, warn them via in-game mail for the exploits, take back what they made in a bugged way and you won't have 33 pages of rage whenever some content doesn't work as it should.
Actually, they got to keep their horses and the devs congratulated them for being 'lucky'.
Part of the reason why I and many others have simply stopped playing their game. I've missed 2 days of sharandar and midsummer dalies. There is nobody left worth playing with anymore. Many good players and good human beings are banned now, most likely permanently because PWE and Cryptic are so incompetent to simply give out a fair warning and remove the exploited sparks. But nope they chose the easy route and simply perm bannned half their player base. What a big fat joke.
BiS DC Seyfried - PvP / CN farm (Dragon Server) 1st Degree Burns
Comments
Another flaw with the devs. This seems to be the case on most exploits in the game. They get told about it but do nothing to fix them. Thats why i think they let it happen they way it happened. They wanted to make money from it. That fix was done pretty fast. Like they had it ready to go to be uploaded to the servers and test it for short time then made it live. Servers were only down for few hours. Since when have they ever made a exploit fix that quickly.
If you are attached to your characters, and put time into developing them, you are less likely to simply create a new account and repeat your offenses. If you are a gold seller, you don't really care, and probably have automated scripts to generate an account, run the character through the tutorial, then park themselves by the AH and spam zone chat...
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
It might also be an indication of the testing or lack of that actually happens either on test servers or during what passes for beta's nowadays. Test servers are more frequently used as ways to promote upcoming stuff to people with hard drive space for an extra client.
Majority of people on wow's test server back when I played that seemed to be focussed on perving the new epics so it's not a new tactic or attitude towards the beta/test servers.
The way the game currently stands it is still not released fully given the fact that at level 30 you are told to choose a paragon path and yet there's only one option. To me that is not something you should find in a launch ready title. Similarly CW's have the option to choose a feat, I think it's renegade path, around level 25 that affects a skill that cannot be used until level 50.
I will accept the fact that exploits can sometimes be tricky to fix but you have to wonder when examples like the CW feat are around that just scream out as suspect design choices leaking past testing.
Nice analogy but lets take it another step... So you are in a guild with say 40 people and everyone is a tight knit close group. Everyone talks openly about exploits being bad, and not using them, but 1 moron decides to use them anyway, while acting as if he isn't. Now you have an instance of 40 people banned because one player was a ****** bag, all because of "guilt by association."
Players just simply should not be held accountable for the actions of others. Accountable for their own actions you bet, but considering nobody can personally monitor everyone else in a guilds activities, holding them all accountable is just absurd.
It's like saying all Americans should have been impeached and punished when their president Bill Clinton lied about the Monica Lewinsky incident.
Convict 1 asks Convict 2 what he is in for...
Convict 2 "Ahh I robbed a liquor store, what they get you for?"
Convict 1 "I had a beer with an old army pal who flipped out a week later and shot up a mall."
It's like the old saying, "one rotten apple spoils the whole bunch." It doesn't have to, that is why you toss out the bad apple, not just toss the whole basket of apples.
Well apparently buying extra purples before the patch was considered a "salvage exploit." Sorry to have gone to the test shard and figured out how to make some extra cash with the update.
And sorry my momma taught me to share as well.
could u expound on that? salvaging items that you had before the patch is an exploit????
Yeah didn't you see the part of the emails that said salvage exploit?
Thanks for the info! What about EVE Online? Don't they have something like that too?
Eve's is closer to the system we have in ours with the main difference being that you can exchange the normal currency for the cash shop currency, at a ridiculously high rate.
Second Life on the other hand has only one currency and only 2 ways to obtain it, real money, or sell items.
If that's the case, then wouldn't the devs have to go back and set the minimum price you could list an item to be at or above the salvage value?
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
I'll Agree with this, and if I was one of the people that got Perma Banned and others didn't for the same offense, your above quote is what I would be telling someone in Customer Service, while also telling them to check over my in game log.
It's a very slippery slope indeed.
Cheers!
" May The Wind be Always At Your Back "
Playing the AH is a very common thing in mmo's and the salvaging is an extension of that. As much as I'm against exploits if they dont have the foresight to premptively bop the unsold purples then more fool them.
They need to take a step back and actually try to look at how people play games.
Were they really? I remember this post specifically. Because it had salvage prices.
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?452961-Good-way-to-make-AD-after-the-patch!/page6&highlight=salvager
So all those people posting saying to do were banned? I don't think so. I see them still here. Whaa Im confuse.
Edit: Also note. Abmin or whichever CM posted they do not use precedents.
We've entered a house who's entire foundation is built on RNG. Should we be so surprised those that govern the house also use no such precedents but instead also operate on RNG. Not so much.
Either your young or new to MMOs. This is the frank truth.
MMO = RNG, F2P MMO = KINGS OF RNG, When you play YMMV.
Fox Stevenson - Sandblast
Oh Wonder - Without You
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
- Dylan Thomas
Pls, tell me they are not banning people for buying purples at Ah and then salvage.. pls tell that isnt happening.
This is just simply unacceptable, u dont gain that much AD anyways.... its just and investment and with time u will get profit... no big deal. I always got the 24k cap and im not making anything special to get it. I turning my drake seals to slavages... lolol pls tell im not "cheating" just because of that LOL
I can understand temporary ban for the AR exploit (not perm ban) but if this is true they are going too far.
I was just asking if this had happened... not saying that it did.
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
So far in the last day or so we've seen...
PWE bans people because they're not American.
PWE bans people because they didn't pay money
PWE bans people because they are in the same guild as some exploiters
PWE bans people because they are salavaging items
PWE bans people for using the Auction House.
What's next? PWE bans people because they are men and not women?
Seriously, please use a bit of common sense and don't create false rumors or buy into them. People got banned. There's one static when people get banned: they're never the ones at fault in their opinion.
Sometimes that's true. Often it's not. So take anything you hear with a grain of salt.
I don't want to close this thread down but this type of behavior will cause us to because it's worse than a sewing circle and doing nothing but making PWE sound worse for what is more than likely nothing but exagerations, misinterpretations or outright lies.
People were banned for exploiting a loophole in the system which allowed them to accumulate a lot of what was intended to be a very rare resource. People knew this was a weekly quest and it was not intended to be done more than once per week. Some people even "sold" the shared quest. That is the only certain information I have at this time.
Anything else is...subject to being completely incorrect "rumormongering." Please don't assist in spreading those rumors and while there may be a grain of truth in each one use your own judment when reading such posts.
just calmly explain why they added 'salvaging'
Either that or keep repeating how the company bases all decisions on a non precedent. It's a roll of a dice on the users end. Why not close it after you said that? You left it open I know for people to vent, but leaving open left it open to troll. You have to be consistent.
Fox Stevenson - Sandblast
Oh Wonder - Without You
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
- Dylan Thomas
All disciplinary matters are considered on a case-by-case basis. PWE is not bound by any precedent on one particular issue to act in a similar or identical manner on any future issue. Such decisions are at the sole,final, and absolute discretion of PWE. This is spelled out in ToS.
Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com
Exactly, its gonna get bypassed by the 50 pages this will become. Just put it in big letters on top the forum. Lock thread and be done.
Fox Stevenson - Sandblast
Oh Wonder - Without You
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
- Dylan Thomas
Ok this topic is a bit awkward. Because the title clearly states we want clarification on what is and what is not an exploit. The BENEFIT the exploiters had helped them go no more than a couple days ahead of others and I think if you go over sharandar campaign you will see I am correct. When I first did the Arcane Reservoir quest I had one day cool down - so 100 sparks there + 20 from the two days unlock pretty much entire tier until the protective wards that require another 9 days.
So now the question is pretty clear. On what basis you ban an enormous amount of players for abusing a quest that gives them one or two days benefit from others WHILE :
Lot of the player base abuse EVERY dungeon ( a T2 gear item they can sell for let's say 500k AD is equivalent to 20 days AD income, of course the price vary but I just gave a wishful sum ).
Coming back to the drawing board here is the deal :
- The benefit from the Arcane Reservoir was very little to matter, the decision to permanent ban some of those people was pretty much bad in my opinion, of course the community of players asked for the bans crying in forums they have seen people in the third area ...
- The benefits from T2 dungeons which are benefiting "exploiters" and everyone on a massive scale has NOT been looked into since months now.
So question stands : will PWE ban 75% of the player base for the real exploits in dungeons or remain to the silly and useless AR quest? Basically go over to the new anti exploit team and ask them WHAT IS AN EXPLOIT because it's clearly they were impartial judging the "benefit over other players" when hitting ban hammer.
Yes, it's a sad thing to see there are so many bugs and if you drive people away from your game it will become unplayable.
Fine them, warn them via in-game mail for the exploits, take back what they made in a bugged way and you won't have 33 pages of rage whenever some content doesn't work as it should.
Actually, they got to keep their horses and the devs congratulated them for being 'lucky'.
Part of the reason why I and many others have simply stopped playing their game. I've missed 2 days of sharandar and midsummer dalies. There is nobody left worth playing with anymore. Many good players and good human beings are banned now, most likely permanently because PWE and Cryptic are so incompetent to simply give out a fair warning and remove the exploited sparks. But nope they chose the easy route and simply perm bannned half their player base. What a big fat joke.
twitch.tv/redeclipze