I suppose the bottom line here is that anyone who thinks the people who got dozens of mounts on Nightmare Thursday aren't exploiters, that they weren't taking advantage of a bug (i.e., exploiting it) has, at best, a tenuous grasp on reality when it comes to this game.
If you can convince yourself that what happened didn't actually happen then good for you.
Yeah... a bunch of people sharing a quest with a multi-day cooldown and they figured it'd be alright to circumvent the timer. The whole "this quest has a cooldown timer" should have been enough of a clue for people to figure out that what they were doing wasn't what the developers had intended. I have no sympathy for anyone who was caught and banned.
People should be less preoccupied with whether or not they *could* do something and more concerned with whether they *should*.
If there is not consistant enforcement, then people are concerned about whether or not they are going to get screwed over by doing what common sense tells them is right. Seeing a few people get way ahead or rich by doing what is wrong, and getting told they were lucky sort of puts everyone in a bad spot when the next exploit rolls around.
I think it's very simple. Everybody who opened a box last thursday in that infamous 40 minute window exploited a bug. Many i guess did not do it inentionaly, but they used a bug to their advantage, that is an exploit.
Many players did do it intentionaly or even methodicaly. One can tell by looking at the Zen price, that went through the roof. Why? Obviously some people saw what was going on, exchanged what they had and opened boxes. Taddaa, exploits!!
And no one needs to proove anything in a court of law, because we are not talking about Professor Plum getting hit with a candlestick in the study, we are talking about an even sillier game.
To the topic: I would love to know what Cryptic/PW considers exploits and what not because since last thursday it got a bit confusing. Not confusing on what is or what is not an exploit, but confusing in the sense of what gets you a congratulation and what gets you banned. I have no idea.
I suppose the bottom line here is that anyone who thinks the people who got dozens of mounts on Nightmare Thursday aren't exploiters, that they weren't taking advantage of a bug (i.e., exploiting it) has, at best, a tenuous grasp on reality when it comes to this game. If you can convince yourself that what happened didn't actually happened then good for you.
I was logged in when it happened. I didn't see any one name being targeted. I didn't see anything that would lead me to believe that anyone was exploiting the bug. Of course Cryptic has the final word on that as they can see more than any of us here.
I think it's very simple. Everybody who opened a box last thursday in that infamous 40 minute window exploited a bug. Many i guess did not do it inentionaly, but they used a bug to their advantage, that is an exploit.
Many players did do it intentionaly or even methodicaly. One can tell by looking at the Zen price, that went through the roof. Why? Obviously some people saw what was going on, exchanged what they had and opened boxes. Taddaa, exploits!!
And no one needs to proove anything in a court of law, because we are not talking about Professor Plum getting hit with a candlestick in the study, we are talking about an even sillier game.
To the topic: I would love to know what Cryptic/PW considers exploits and what not because since last thursday it got a bit confusing. Not confusing on what is or what is not an exploit, but confusing in the sense of what gets you a congratulation and what gets you banned. I have no idea.
No. You need to be conscious of a bug to exploit it, otherwise Cryptic owns responsibility, which is what happened - players aren't to blame. Cryptic admitted their mistake, and we all need to move on.
If there is not consistant enforcement, then people are concerned about whether or not they are going to get screwed over by doing what common sense tells them is right. Seeing a few people get way ahead or rich by doing what is wrong, and getting told they were lucky sort of puts everyone in a bad spot when the next exploit rolls around.
Consistancy is key in any system.
I'm not disagreeing with you. But all the people who used the <removed details> had to have known that they were doing something wrong. Common sense should have been enough to realize that <removed details>... was skirting the system. Should the quests have been checked to make sure they weren't shareable? Yes, but that slipped through... common sense says it wasn't an intentional workaround, or why have a cooldown at all?
No. You need to be conscious of a bug to exploit it, otherwise Cryptic owns responsibility, which is what happened - players aren't to blame. Cryptic admitted their mistake, and we all need to move on.
I really don't get it. Cryptic screwed up. Cryptic admitted they screwed up. Yet, people continue to insist on blaming their fellow players.
I was curious how many people were online on the server. I searched PE, all T2 dungeons (karr, FH, spider, spell, pirate, dv,) gaunt, CN, Malabog, the new event area, pvp, and sharandar areas. Areas I did not include were foundries and areas out in the world. This was just during the last DD as well. I searched for the number of level 60 players only in each and every instance.
On Mindflayer there are a little more than 1300 players.
On Dragon there are a little more than 3000 players.
No. You need to be conscious of a bug to exploit it, otherwise Cryptic owns responsibility, which is what happened - players aren't to blame. Cryptic admitted their mistake, and we all need to move on.
People were aware of the exploit, and were rewarded for exploiting it.
True enough. I guess common sense would likewise tell you that if you normally see one Nightmare Mount message every 45 minutes but now you're seeing 10 Nightmare messages every 30 seconds that perhaps opening that next Lockbox could possibly, maybe, perhaps be considered ... oh, I don't know ... AN EXPLOIT!!!
True enough. I guess common sense would likewise tell you that if you normally see one Nightmare Mount message every 45 minutes but now you're seeing 10 Nightmare messages every 30 seconds that perhaps opening that next Lockbox could possibly, maybe, perhaps be considered ... oh, I don't know ... AN EXPLOIT!!!
Really? Or the simple FACT that the drop rate was increased so that ANYONE who opened a box was getting a Nightmare 8/10 times. If I bought 10 keys and decided to open boxes, and got a huge percentage increase because of a bug, that's not my fault. I didn't exploit it, because I didn't know about it, I just happened to open 10 lock boxes at that time.
... and no... I never got a nightmare. I actually refused to buy keys within that 10 or 15 min. That's not how I roll.
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
I was curious how many people were online on the server. I searched PE, all T2 dungeons (karr, FH, spider, spell, pirate, dv,) gaunt, CN, Malabog, the new event area, pvp, and sharandar areas. Areas I did not include were foundries and areas out in the world. This was just during the last DD as well. I searched for the number of level 60 players only in each and every instance.
On Mindflayer there are a little more than 1300 players.
On Dragon there are a little more than 3000 players.
I see your point. What I am saying is how many of those people do you think missed out on the cheap nitemare horses and then when they saw the next exploit said to themselves....well nothing is going to come of it, so I may as well exploit like everyone else. Now they are banned by a system that is essentially a roll of the dice on whether or not you win or lose.
I see your point. What I am saying is how many of those people do you think missed out on the cheap nitemare horses and then when they saw the next exploit said to themselves....well nothing is going to come of it, so I may as well exploit like everyone else. Now they are banned by a system that is essentially a roll of the dice on whether or not you win or lose.
Funny, the whole ban system is like a lockbox
This is precisely the problem, isn't it? Inconsistent application of the Terms of Service.
Really? Or the simple FACT that the drop rate was increased so that ANYONE who opened a box was getting a Nightmare 8/10 times. If I bought 10 keys and decided to open boxes, and got a huge percentage increase because of a bug, that's not my fault. I didn't exploit it, because I didn't know about it, I just happened to open 10 lock boxes at that time.
... and no... I never got a nightmare. I actually refused to buy keys within that 10 or 15 min. That's not how I roll.
The nightmare drop chance has been increased by a dev. It was a mistake but it wasn't an exploit. Trying to get an unfair advantage by using glitches in the game is an exploit. It has nothing to do with money, in the first case, cryptic made a mistake and told players they agreed to give more horses, in the second case, people used an in game mechanic to do something not intended.
Not intended is the key concept to understand what an exploit is. Getting nightmare horses in a lockbox is intended. You can't blame people getting one. Sharing a quest to progress faster in the campaign is not intended = exploit + ban. If you can't understand that you shouldn't try to find a workaround to get a weekly quest faster, then, you're either an hypocrite or really, really, really stupid.
Isn't it obvious? He didn't want to exploit .... I mean .... you know, the situation ... that there Nightmare bug .... that wasn't an exploit ... it was uhh ... well, whatever it was it definitely wasn't an exploit and wjweller definitely didn't take advantage of that ... that .... not-an-exploit thingy ... ... word!
The nightmare drop chance has been increased by a dev. It was a mistake but it wasn't an exploit. Trying to get an unfair advantage by using glitches in the game is an exploit. It has nothing to do with money, in the first case, cryptic made a mistake and told players they agreed to give more horses, in the second case, people used an in game mechanic to do something not intended.
Not intended is the key concept to understand what an exploit is. Getting nightmare horses in a lockbox is intended. You can't blame people getting one. Sharing a quest to progress faster in the campaign is not intended = exploit + ban. If you can't understand that you shouldn't try to find a workaround to get a weekly quest faster, then, you're either an hypocrite or really, really, really stupid.
I'm pretty sure people knew with all the Nightmare spam occuring that the unusually high chances of getting a mount from a lockbox were not intended. I'm afraid that's where your otherwise sound logic falls apart.
I'm pretty sure people knew with all the Nightmare spam occuring that the unusually high chances of getting a mount from a lockbox were not intended. I'm afraid that's where your otherwise sound logic falls apart.
All the "holy cow, buy keys!" zone chat that was occuring might be another clue people knew.
The nightmare drop chance has been increased by a dev. It was a mistake but it wasn't an exploit. Trying to get an unfair advantage by using glitches in the game is an exploit. It has nothing to do with money, in the first case, cryptic made a mistake and told players they agreed to give more horses, in the second case, people used an in game mechanic to do something not intended.
Not intended is the key concept to understand what an exploit is. Getting nightmare horses in a lockbox is intended. You can't blame people getting one. Sharing a quest to progress faster in the campaign is not intended = exploit + ban. If you can't understand that you shouldn't try to find a workaround to get a weekly quest faster, then, you're either an hypocrite or really, really, really stupid.
So you are saying some mistakes are intended and some are not? hehe.
All the "holy cow, buy keys!" zone chat that was occuring might be another clue people knew.
+1, first second i logged in, i was TOLD to buy the keys for boxes and i did not even need to ask why with the spam going on.
had i then decided to buy keys n rack up on nightmares, then yes, i would be "intentionally exploiting" no other way around it.
I hate double standard, hypocrite, and censorship. it is amazing in it self i am still here cause those 3 peeves of mine are PWE's speciality
I understand this could be a loaded question... and I'm fine with that. Why didn't I? A) I don't want to destroy a game I support. If I wanted to, I wouldn't have enough time anyway, it takes a while to purchase anything from the cash shop. Anyone who's actually bought yen knows that.
If someone was that ambitious, to log in, see some chat in zone and say, "ok, i'll go for it." and they purchase keys fast enough to take advantage of it, then wow, yeah... good on you buddy... but honestly I don't even think it was possible.
I understand this could be a loaded question... and I'm fine with that. Why didn't I? A) I don't want to destroy a game I support. If I wanted to, I wouldn't have enough time anyway, it takes a while to purchase anything from the cash shop. Anyone who's actually bought yen knows that.
If someone was that ambitious, to log in, see some chat in zone and say, "ok, i'll go for it." and they purchase keys fast enough to take advantage of it, then wow, yeah... good on you buddy... but honestly I don't even think it was possible.
Hmm... since it's not possible to buy keys that fast according to you, they must have stocked up on keys beforehand in anticipation of the servers going up.
The nightmare drop chance has been increased by a dev. It was a mistake but it wasn't an exploit. Trying to get an unfair advantage by using glitches in the game is an exploit. It has nothing to do with money, in the first case, cryptic made a mistake and told players they agreed to give more horses, in the second case, people used an in game mechanic to do something not intended.
Not intended is the key concept to understand what an exploit is. Getting nightmare horses in a lockbox is intended. You can't blame people getting one. Sharing a quest to progress faster in the campaign is not intended = exploit + ban. If you can't understand that you shouldn't try to find a workaround to get a weekly quest faster, then, you're either an hypocrite or really, really, really stupid.
That logic is soooo fail. Its like me saying its ok for me to fall under the world and then kill the boss while he can do nothing because "killing the boss was intended". Do you honestly believe anything you just wrote?
Hmm... since it's not possible to buy keys that fast according to you, they must have stocked up on keys beforehand in anticipation of the servers going up.
/But definitely not an exploit...
Right, but that's an assumption and still doesn't prove it was an exploit.
Come on. Anyone can go out there and find it... on Reddit, Facebook, even IRC! Show proof that this bug was published and anticipated!
many of us reported nightmare bug on mimic so they did know
as for what exploit is and what its not it was exploit to many people the nightmare was but some people opened it not knowing about issue and did not intend to exploit but that being said pwe should ban people who did it multiple times.
sparks was exploit every one new it was and if u say you did not know your not conning any one it was bug and every one who did it knowingly exploited the game.
when your not sure some thing is exploit just don't do it play fair play right and earn your way to the top
Really so when someone who buys a bunch of keys during that thurday seeing all these alerts of nightmares being found and then uses them to open up and get the nightmares they know they are going to get. Or what about the people who knew about the exploit from the test server and waited till it went live and opened the boxes. I was there no que to get into the game and little right from the beggining alerts started poping up.
Comments
If you can convince yourself that what happened didn't actually happen then good for you.
If there is not consistant enforcement, then people are concerned about whether or not they are going to get screwed over by doing what common sense tells them is right. Seeing a few people get way ahead or rich by doing what is wrong, and getting told they were lucky sort of puts everyone in a bad spot when the next exploit rolls around.
Consistancy is key in any system.
Many players did do it intentionaly or even methodicaly. One can tell by looking at the Zen price, that went through the roof. Why? Obviously some people saw what was going on, exchanged what they had and opened boxes. Taddaa, exploits!!
And no one needs to proove anything in a court of law, because we are not talking about Professor Plum getting hit with a candlestick in the study, we are talking about an even sillier game.
To the topic: I would love to know what Cryptic/PW considers exploits and what not because since last thursday it got a bit confusing. Not confusing on what is or what is not an exploit, but confusing in the sense of what gets you a congratulation and what gets you banned. I have no idea.
I was logged in when it happened. I didn't see any one name being targeted. I didn't see anything that would lead me to believe that anyone was exploiting the bug. Of course Cryptic has the final word on that as they can see more than any of us here.
No. You need to be conscious of a bug to exploit it, otherwise Cryptic owns responsibility, which is what happened - players aren't to blame. Cryptic admitted their mistake, and we all need to move on.
I'm not disagreeing with you. But all the people who used the <removed details> had to have known that they were doing something wrong. Common sense should have been enough to realize that <removed details>... was skirting the system. Should the quests have been checked to make sure they weren't shareable? Yes, but that slipped through... common sense says it wasn't an intentional workaround, or why have a cooldown at all?
I really don't get it. Cryptic screwed up. Cryptic admitted they screwed up. Yet, people continue to insist on blaming their fellow players.
On Mindflayer there are a little more than 1300 players.
On Dragon there are a little more than 3000 players.
People were aware of the exploit, and were rewarded for exploiting it.
True enough. I guess common sense would likewise tell you that if you normally see one Nightmare Mount message every 45 minutes but now you're seeing 10 Nightmare messages every 30 seconds that perhaps opening that next Lockbox could possibly, maybe, perhaps be considered ... oh, I don't know ... AN EXPLOIT!!!
Really? Or the simple FACT that the drop rate was increased so that ANYONE who opened a box was getting a Nightmare 8/10 times. If I bought 10 keys and decided to open boxes, and got a huge percentage increase because of a bug, that's not my fault. I didn't exploit it, because I didn't know about it, I just happened to open 10 lock boxes at that time.
... and no... I never got a nightmare. I actually refused to buy keys within that 10 or 15 min. That's not how I roll.
I play on Mindflayer. I am still at work.
Neverwinter Census 2017
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I see your point. What I am saying is how many of those people do you think missed out on the cheap nitemare horses and then when they saw the next exploit said to themselves....well nothing is going to come of it, so I may as well exploit like everyone else. Now they are banned by a system that is essentially a roll of the dice on whether or not you win or lose.
Funny, the whole ban system is like a lockbox
Really? That's too bad. You could have been "lucky".
This is precisely the problem, isn't it? Inconsistent application of the Terms of Service.
Why did you refuse?
Not intended is the key concept to understand what an exploit is. Getting nightmare horses in a lockbox is intended. You can't blame people getting one. Sharing a quest to progress faster in the campaign is not intended = exploit + ban. If you can't understand that you shouldn't try to find a workaround to get a weekly quest faster, then, you're either an hypocrite or really, really, really stupid.
Isn't it obvious? He didn't want to exploit .... I mean .... you know, the situation ... that there Nightmare bug .... that wasn't an exploit ... it was uhh ... well, whatever it was it definitely wasn't an exploit and wjweller definitely didn't take advantage of that ... that .... not-an-exploit thingy ... ... word!
I'm pretty sure people knew with all the Nightmare spam occuring that the unusually high chances of getting a mount from a lockbox were not intended. I'm afraid that's where your otherwise sound logic falls apart.
So you are saying some mistakes are intended and some are not? hehe.
had i then decided to buy keys n rack up on nightmares, then yes, i would be "intentionally exploiting" no other way around it.
I hate double standard, hypocrite, and censorship. it is amazing in it self i am still here cause those 3 peeves of mine are PWE's speciality
I understand this could be a loaded question... and I'm fine with that. Why didn't I? A) I don't want to destroy a game I support.
If someone was that ambitious, to log in, see some chat in zone and say, "ok, i'll go for it." and they purchase keys fast enough to take advantage of it, then wow, yeah... good on you buddy... but honestly I don't even think it was possible.
/But definitely not an exploit...
Just like <removed details>. But those people got banned.
That logic is soooo fail. Its like me saying its ok for me to fall under the world and then kill the boss while he can do nothing because "killing the boss was intended". Do you honestly believe anything you just wrote?
Right, but that's an assumption and still doesn't prove it was an exploit.
Come on. Anyone can go out there and find it... on Reddit, Facebook, even IRC! Show proof that this bug was published and anticipated!
right just like the latest batch of bans. That people <removed details>
as for what exploit is and what its not it was exploit to many people the nightmare was but some people opened it not knowing about issue and did not intend to exploit but that being said pwe should ban people who did it multiple times.
sparks was exploit every one new it was and if u say you did not know your not conning any one it was bug and every one who did it knowingly exploited the game.
when your not sure some thing is exploit just don't do it play fair play right and earn your way to the top
Really so when someone who buys a bunch of keys during that thurday seeing all these alerts of nightmares being found and then uses them to open up and get the nightmares they know they are going to get. Or what about the people who knew about the exploit from the test server and waited till it went live and opened the boxes. I was there no que to get into the game and little right from the beggining alerts started poping up.