"XY is Op, nerf you suckers" isnt criticism, its whining
google what criticism is, then come back at me
Google what straw-manning is then come back to me.
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bpskibbenheimsMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 210Bounty Hunter
edited July 2013
Honestly after the last balance patch I changed my build up some. I was running the classic executioner glass cannon build. I didn't change it up too much though. I looked into the perma stealth builds and toyed with them a bit and ultimately went back to a modified executioner spec ... Mainly because pretty quickly using perma stealth I felt like it would get nerfed eventually. I didn't want to become reliant on it.
Yeaaaaaa, you're doing it wrong. Rogues are NOT immune nor invulnerable while in stealth. I hate having to teach, but you don't fire off sunburst (AoE) as soon as they stealth. wait 4-5 seconds, go into divinity mode, fire off sunburst and you mess up their rotations and knock them back.
you just damaged them, thus you reduced their stealth (they have a meter for that, you know...a pool, that gets reduced over time when they are stealthed and also when they are damaged)
why dont you also learn how the game works befor you complain about something?
Even the sloppiest TR out there (like me) can switch one of his passives for Tenacious Concealment and basically nullify any stealth loss from incoming damage.
Of course skilled rogues don't even need it since Sneak Attack provide such a huge movement speed bonus that even when not rolling away you can easily avoid those incredibly slow PBAoE.
And we're not even taking into account the fact that CoS has a wider range than Sunburst and the like.
But anyway, stealth builds are just a gimmick: it's a highly inefficient for PvE and hardly a crucial factor in PvP where gearscore is a major concern and focused burst damage is pretty much mandatory (even if I have yet to face a 5 men perma stealth rogue premade).
Anyway perma-stealth it's clearly not intended. None of the other "power featured" classes (GF, GWF, DC) has such a capability (have a 100% power uptime) therefore it's just a matter of time it will be fixed. Because yes, it's not even a nerf, it's just a broken mechanic.
Even the sloppiest TR out there (like me) can switch one of his passives for Tenacious Concealment and basically nullify any stealth loss from incoming damage.
Of course skilled rogues don't even need it since Sneak Attack provide such a huge movement speed bonus that even when not rolling away you can easily avoid those incredibly slow PBAoE.
And we're not even taking into account the fact that CoS has a wider range than Sunburst and the like.
But anyway, stealth builds are just a gimmick: it's a highly inefficient for PvE and hardly a crucial factor in PvP where gearscore is a major concern and focused burst damage is pretty much mandatory (even if I have yet to face a 5 men perma stealth rogue premade).
Anyway perma-stealth it's clearly not intended. None of the other "power featured" classes (GF, GWF, DC) has such a capability (have a 100% power uptime) therefore it's just a matter of time it will be fixed. Because yes, it's not even a nerf, it's just a broken mechanic.
perfectly stated.. Its not a nerf. Its just broken. 100% correct
Boy I can't wait to see the hate for the Rangers when we finally get them. (crying) That Ranger sniped me from half way across the zone in stealth and I couldn't even find him. Of course the Ranger would be really squishy and subject to being ganged up on.
Boy I can't wait to see the hate for the Rangers when we finally get them. (crying) That Ranger sniped me from half way across the zone in stealth and I couldn't even find him. Of course the Ranger would be really squishy and subject to being ganged up on.
How do you know the Ranger is going to have stealth? That makes zero sense.
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I've been running a TR for a few weeks now. I have NEVER used a perma-stealth build, but I've fought some TRs with those builds before. Sometimes I just get lucky and pop a smoke at the right place, ITC at the right time so I can have a good chance at fighting that rogue. Sometimes I also dodge at the right time to avoid their Shadow Strike so they can't refill their stealth gauge. I can tell you this though. If they're out of stealth, they will get smoked if they then get perfectly CC'd or burst DPS'd. They are SO squishy. TBH there's no tactic that you can think of that will "for sure" kick a perma stealths rogue butt, but you just have to do your best to avoid damage and make due your time elsewhere not near a perma stealth rogue. If you want to, take your chance with a perma stealth rogue and make up your own strategy to challenge it. I'm sure there are many ways. Although, if it's a geared perma stealth rogue, you'll be fighting an "invisible glass cannon" till you're nearly screwed over in your heads if you stay near it.
If you want people to stay for the match end even when you're sitting on a 600-10 score and you've decided to be ***-hats and spawn-camp, you need to give them a reason. Punishing them is not the answer. That's just pouring salt-acid into an already bleeding wound.
If you cant hunt a perma-stealth rogue, get a rogue on your team who can. I don't seem to have an issue hunting perma-stealth rogues with my rogue. And NO, TR's don't have some magical sight ability to see them, we just UNDERSTAND how they work. TR's are the 2nd squishiest class in game.
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nozanderMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 2Arc User
Please stop it! You do realize that not everyone is interested in PvP don't you?
The more you PvP players scream for nerfs here and nerfs there, the more we PvE players suffer. Our characters get ruined because a few players found it too over powered in PvP.
Honestly, I wish they'd just remove PvP from the game altogether. But at the very least, have separate skills for PvP and PvE. Then I don't care what they do to the PvP skills, because my PvE experience won't be effected.
Lamest excuse ever.
I wish they add Openworld PVP so we can **** PVE Grinders.
There are many threads on game balance that touch on all the classes. I have a level 60 of each one now and PvP frequently. Most of the imbalances can be worked around with a good team. That doesn't make them any less inbalanced but it does make them less ridiculous. The Intelligence heavy perma stealth rogue builds with Cloud of Steel has no good counter.
Yes I know you can sort of see where I am by where the daggers land on your body. I use every landscape object to my advantage though and usually toss daggers from on top of something so getting to me before you die is not going to happen. Even if I just go with my Armor Piearcing heavy kit instead of seven teneb power enchants I have little problem taking down most players while they can do nothing but run away. In PvP domination running away is the same thing as winning.
If TRs were already topping the scoreboard because of our already high damage (I usually three shot most classes in a more traditional build) then I could see Cryptic leaving this total cheese build around but I think we all are aware that TRs are already the PvP masters and don't need perma stealth daggers to win. I know it frustrates those we play against and that is exactly why most of the other TRs I know that use it choose to do so. I want PvP to stay fun for everyone so this game can last.
Fighting from within stealth in general is a OP ability but I understand that PW is just following along the path WoW and Rift started. They can do better. Add stealth detection potions to the PvP vendor. Regardless of what they decide to do with stealth in general, though, allowing more than one attack out of stealth is game breaking and no fun for anyone.
Things I would bet the farm on.
1) OP plays "mage class" in every game (lies about experience with other classes, minus leveling, which = whoop de do).
2) OP thinks nuking from range is perfectly balanced, and that it should have no counter.
3) OP is a facetanker, who never learned to kite in any mmo.
Same stuff. Different game. The cow goes moo, the mage class cries, and the priest class is right behind them, with both calling for nerfs on the stealth class, while people with warriors go huh?
Rock. paper scissors is just too difficult a concept to understand I guess.
If you cant hunt a perma-stealth rogue, get a rogue on your team who can. I don't seem to have an issue hunting perma-stealth rogues with my rogue. And NO, TR's don't have some magical sight ability to see them, we just UNDERSTAND how they work. TR's are the 2nd squishiest class in game.
you make me lol.
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borgued3Member, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 150Bounty Hunter
Stealth is about escaping a bad situation or sneaking up on your enemy and dealing a devastating blow. It's not about running around as a ghost shooting people with an automatic shotgun. Do you even understand what the assassin/rogue archetype is all about?
TR's have 3 ranged abilities instead of just 1 and you can attack multiple times while being at a distance and invisible <- It doesn't make sense.
You see, it is a never ending cycle.
If we stealth, glue to you and BAM! smack you with a nasty amount of damage leaving you on death's door. Then shortly after that people will come to forum and ask nerfs on rogue damage (and we did get that).
Now if we stay stealthed nailing you guys with not a heavy hitter, but rather mittigating damage assuming you are a wooden door and take it all in with no dodge/shield/whatever defense mechanic any class has, then its a nerf on stealth you want and need because now you survive longer however you need to use half your brain to figure a tactic to get the rogue into your game (and many GOOD players already figured plenty of tactics that arent half as hard as you guys make it sound).
unfortunatelly for us we are undenyably squishy and the moment we go visible its game, set and match, we are done, so either we remain stealthed and use strategy to avoid being found out, or we better nail you down in one(two) hit(s), and both cases do not please you guys, what you want is rogue to be nerfed into oblivion and force us into popping out of stealth to not be able to finish you off fast to become a living pinnata for GFs/GWFs/CWs/other rogues.
Simple as that, thats the reasoning players follow when it is too hard to adapt
Also, we only have 1 ranged ability to use from stealth and it has charges, the others remove us from it unless we pop LA, and we dont have a pocket full of LAs to launch on our pvp matches, you see, we generate AP very slowly.
I know its used too much nowadays but there is no better sentence than "learn to play" to this case, yet people just take it as an insult and rather rant on and on and on until the nerf bat finally comes and rogues become just a trash class that has aboslutelly no use, and i bet anything i got that if we get hit by the nerfbat and still figure a way to nail down good for nothing players without durable stealth they will still come to forum and again create numerous threads asking for nerfs, thats just how scrubs work .
but if you dont believe fine, let perma stealth be nerfed to nothing and i will make a perma daze build to leave you guys defenseless as i plummet you with CoS and Sly along with dailies and good usage of the nerfed stealth, i assure you not 1 week will pass and nerf daze threads will pop like crazy because scrubs will be scrubs and will rather nerf things than adapt.
If we stealth, glue to you and BAM! smack you with a nasty amount of damage leaving you on death's door. Then shortly after that people will come to forum and ask nerfs on rogue damage (and we did get that).
Now if we stay stealthed nailing you guys with not a heavy hitter, but rather mittigating damage assuming you are a wooden door and take it all in with no dodge/shield/whatever defense mechanic any class has, then its a nerf on stealth you want and need because now you survive longer however you need to use half your brain to figure a tactic to get the rogue into your game (and many GOOD players already figured plenty of tactics that arent half as hard as you guys make it sound).
unfortunatelly for us we are undenyably squishy and the moment we go visible its game, set and match, we are done, so either we remain stealthed and use strategy to avoid being found out, or we better nail you down in one(two) hit(s), and both cases do not please you guys, what you want is rogue to be nerfed into oblivion and force us into popping out of stealth to not be able to finish you off fast to become a living pinnata for GFs/GWFs/CWs/other rogues.
Simple as that, thats the reasoning players follow when it is too hard to adapt
Also, we only have 1 ranged ability to use from stealth and it has charges, the others remove us from it unless we pop LA, and we dont have a pocket full of LAs to launch on our pvp matches, you see, we generate AP very slowly.
I know its used too much nowadays but there is no better sentence than "learn to play" to this case, yet people just take it as an insult and rather rant on and on and on until the nerf bat finally comes and rogues become just a trash class that has aboslutelly no use, and i bet anything i got that if we get hit by the nerfbat and still figure a way to nail down good for nothing players without durable stealth they will still come to forum and again create numerous threads asking for nerfs, thats just how scrubs work .
but if you dont believe fine, let perma stealth be nerfed to nothing and i will make a perma daze build to leave you guys defenseless as i plummet you with CoS and Sly along with dailies and good usage of the nerfed stealth, i assure you not 1 week will pass and nerf daze threads will pop like crazy because scrubs will be scrubs and will rather nerf things than adapt.
Oh gimme a break, there are plenty of viable ways to play a rogue where you can still do insane damage, there are rogues out there right now who are hitting 20-30k lashing blades.
Your main source of damage should not be coming from a ranged ability, simple as that, and if it does you should not be allowed to be invisible while doing it. I don't get whats so hard to understand about this. You're doing better damage than a CW as a melee class, bursting down people in seconds with an average gs, and you're also untargetable, how is this fair?
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borgued3Member, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 150Bounty Hunter
100% agree. Just ignore these trolls which are just afraid of beeing nerfed so that they would need some skill to win.
says the man who doesnt even know how to use his own class. If you read your own posts you will see they are all based on you getting facerolled with your class (preciselly because you refuse to set your encounters/at wills/dailies to an optimal combination against permastealth). If anyone lacks skill to win is you "bob", and more than one person on this thread taught you how to win WITH YOUR CLASS , and even pointed out the encounters and the effects they have to make it an easy learning section, but you are just ignorant by choice and nerfing is better than learning for you.
Wont waste another post on you, not worth it, just read what you already got and stop being a ignorant scrub.
Oh gimme a break, there are plenty of viable ways to play a rogue where you can still do insane damage, there are rogues out there right now who are 1 shotting people with lashing blade.
Your main source of damage should not be coming from a ranged ability, simple as that, and if it does you should not be allowed to be invisible while doing it. I don't get whats so hard to understand about this. You're doing better damage than a CW as a melee class, bursting down people in seconds with an average gs, and you're also untargetable, how is this fair?
yes there are many ways to instagib, yet as you will soon learn the moment scrubs get one shotted by anything, they will come to the forum faster than lightspeed to ask an absurd nerf on whatever caused the damage, and that procedure will keep rolling until rogue has no more damage. But if we have no more damage thanks to whiners and no stealth for survival again thanks to whiners, what good are we into any situation? We will be nothing but walking corpses.
Scrubs will always find something to cry for nerf and as i said, cryptic, bring down you heaviest nerf hammer on my perma stealth build and bring it now!!! I will take it head on and create another way to faceroll players and wait until you bring the nerf hammer down again because they will be too stupid to counter it and the forums will be flooded with the tears of my enemies again.
Also CoS isnt by far our main source of damage, far from it, its just the best we got for permastealth. Lashing blade/Impact shot/duelist are far better nukes/damage dealers and more praiseworthy than a 12 charge attack that takes 36 secs to be set again, but since they require a very dangerous gameplay from stealth (duelist) or remove it completelly, permastealths have to get the next best, and that is CoS.
But as i already mentioned, there are PLENTY methods to counter perma stealth, however some people are just too lazy to think about it and just come here to rant on forums for nerf. If it was IMPOSSIBLE (to the root of it) to counter us, i would agree....but since i know it IS NOT impossible to deal with perma stealth and that there are plenty ways to do it on all classes, sorry but i can't feel bad for you guys begging for a nerf.
Oh gimme a break, there are plenty of viable ways to play a rogue where you can still do insane damage, there are rogues out there right now who are hitting 20-30k lashing blades.
Your main source of damage should not be coming from a ranged ability, simple as that, and if it does you should not be allowed to be invisible while doing it. I don't get whats so hard to understand about this. You're doing better damage than a CW as a melee class, bursting down people in seconds with an average gs, and you're also untargetable, how is this fair?
says the man who doesnt even know how to use his own class. If you read your own posts you will see they are all based on you getting facerolled with your class (preciselly because you refuse to set your encounters/at wills/dailies to an optimal combination against permastealth). If anyone lacks skill to win is you "bob", and more than one person on this thread taught you how to win WITH YOUR CLASS , and even pointed out the encounters and the effects they have to make it an easy learning section, but you are just ignorant by choice and nerfing is better than learning for you.
Wont waste another post on you, not worth it, just read what you already got and stop being a ignorant scrub.
yes there are many ways to instagib, yet as you will soon learn the moment scrubs get one shotted by anything, they will come to the forum faster than lightspeed to ask an absurd nerf on whatever caused the damage, and that procedure will keep rolling until rogue has no more damage. But if we have no more damage thanks to whiners and no stealth for survival again thanks to whiners, what good are we into any situation? We will be nothing but walking corpses.
Scrubs will always find something to cry for nerf and as i said, cryptic, bring down you heaviest nerf hammer on my perma stealth build and bring it now!!! I will take it head on and create another way to faceroll players and wait until you bring the nerf hammer down again because they will be too stupid to counter it and the forums will be flooded with the tears of my enemies again.
Also CoS isnt by far our main source of damage, far from it, its just the best we got for permastealth. Lashing blade/Impact shot/duelist are far better nukes/damage dealers and more praiseworthy than a 12 charge attack that takes 36 secs to be set again, but since they require a very dangerous gameplay from stealth (duelist) or remove it completelly, permastealths have to get the next best, and that is CoS.
But as i already mentioned, there are PLENTY methods to counter perma stealth, however some people are just too lazy to think about it and just come here to rant on forums for nerf. If it was IMPOSSIBLE (to the root of it) to counter us, i would agree....but since i know it IS NOT impossible to deal with perma stealth and that there are plenty ways to do it on all classes, sorry but i can't feel bad for you guys begging for a nerf.
/thread
It's not even a matter of damage. Smart perma stealth rogues don't need to kill anyone as long as they can permanently conquer one point. It takes 2 members of the opposing team to conquer a point with a rogue on it and it gives a huge advantage to your party (4 vs.3 >> 5 vs. 4).
And perma stealth can only be "countered" when the rogue makes a mistake. If played correctly there's no "convenient" way to unstealth a rogue. The only convenient way to deal with perma stealth rogues is just ignore them and focus on the other points; hoping that the rogue is stupid enough to, eventually, come into the battle worried about the fact that his team mates are going to be outplayed or just because he's too lazy to take the long route.
Neverwinter game design is different. As already stated, none of the other power featured classes (DC, GWF, GF) can achieve 100% uptime.
It's pretty clear that perma stealth is not intended. It may not be OP as claimed but it's obviously not intended.
And perma stealth can only be "countered" when the rogue makes a mistake. If played correctly there's no "convenient" way to unstealth a rogue. The only convenient way to deal with perma stealth rogues is just ignore them and focus on the other points; hoping that the rogue is stupid enough to, eventually, come into the battle worried about the fact that his team mates are going to be outplayed or just because he's too lazy to take the long route.
It's pretty clear that perma stealth is not intended. It may not be OP as claimed but it's obviously not intended.
Sorry dude, but it's also pretty clear you don't know what you are talking about. Put a GF or a GWF on the third point and you will need the same, if not more people, to try and nudge him off of it.
This thread is now 27 pages long, and I agree lots of misinformation is in there, but there are also numerous TR's telling you EXACTLY how to counter TR's IN STEALTH.
And then you still make the statement that there are no counters?
Put some more effort in playing instead of complaining, don't act deliberate ignorant or just dumb stubborn, and you will do better against all classes.
Sorry dude, but it's also pretty clear you don't know what you are talking about. Put a GF or a GWF on the third point and you will need the same, if not more people, to try and nudge him off of it.
This thread is now 27 pages long, and I agree lots of misinformation is in there, but there are also numerous TR's telling you EXACTLY how to counter TR's IN STEALTH.
And then you still make the statement that there are no counters?
Put some more effort in playing instead of complaining, don't act deliberate ignorant or just dumb stubborn, and you will do better against all classes.
I'm sorry but it seems that you didn't read my previous post; there are several information in there about what a rogue can do in order to prevent or minimize what the opposite team as a whole can do about perma stealth and I know them just because I play rogue as well. And the only reason I can be detected is because I make a mistake or some lag/rubberbanding-related issues. No PBAoE has the same range of CoS, that's a fact. Once you know the range of such spells and you are smart enough not to stay in front of anyone then you're good to go.
I don't really want to derail the thread about what other classes can or can't do to defend a point (given that it's blatantly obvious that they are not in the same ballpark), I'm just stating what it's under everyone's eyes: no other classes can achieve a 100% "special stance" uptime.
Can be the TR an exception? Maybe, I hardly believe it.
I'm sorry but it seems that you didn't read my previous post; there are several information in there about what a rogue can do in order to prevent or minimize what the opposite team as a whole can do about perma stealth and I know them just because I play rogue as well. And the only reason I can be detected is because I make a mistake or some lag/rubberbanding-related issues. No PBAoE has the same range of CoS, that's a fact. Once you know the range of such spells and you are smart enough not to stay in front of anyone then you're good to go.
I don't really want to derail the thread about what other classes can or can't do to defend a point (given that it's blatantly obvious that they are not in the same ballpark), I'm just stating what it's under everyone's eyes: no other classes can achieve a 100% "special stance" uptime.
Can be the TR an exception? Maybe, I hardly believe it.
CW. GF. GWF. None of my characters have issues w rogues.
there are also numerous TR's telling you EXACTLY how to counter TR's IN STEALTH.
And then you still make the statement that there are no counters?
Because these "counters" are not working / are stupid / bull sh*t / ...
"change your most important gap closer to a weak AoE skill which marks enemies around you"
...
1) reduzing overall damage
2) reducing mobilty
3) marks will be removed instantly because the TR did throw a dagger on the GF
"target him and do awesome things all the time!!!"
...
1) targeting them is nearly impossible because they are ... stealthed *applause*
2) they are jumping
3) you must know their exact position to target them (while they are not jumping and/or moving!), this is nearly impossible because of the hude range of CoS
"just dodge his CoS!!!"
...
1) well dodging his CoS changes nothing at all. Well the TR needs 1-3 more daggers to kill
2) the TR has enough time because they cant be hit except by very large AoE spells
"Use AoE Spells to damage them!!!!"
...
1) TR must be in range, most AoEs have a small radius around the player
2) TR is able to dodge the spells - most ranged AoEs got a animation/casttime which makes them easy to dodge.
Any more "hints" how to counter perma stealth TR? No? Well, stfu then!
If you want people to stay for the match end even when you're sitting on a 600-10 score and you've decided to be ***-hats and spawn-camp, you need to give them a reason. Punishing them is not the answer. That's just pouring salt-acid into an already bleeding wound.
I'm just stating what it's under everyone's eyes: no other classes can achieve a 100% "special stance" uptime.
Can be the TR an exception? Maybe, I hardly believe it.
You saw my stealth FAQ and just posted in it. You play a rogue. You know the long, long, laundry list of abilities in the TR class that extend stealth.
And yet you are wondering if 100% uptime is NOT intended?
I don't care about PVP whine, but seriously, i m curious to see what kind of pve content devs could make in front of a perma stealth build, especially for the module one, because it's just a joke, unless you give your boss the ability to see through the stealth which by the way should be the case for every serious encounter.
Perma stealth build will be nerfed not because of PVP but only for pve reasons, exactly as cleric was nerfed.
You don't want to nerf the perma stealth build ok to avoid some drama, so think about to give some skill love for useless class as cleric like "detect invisible" as passive skill.
A REAL quick and efficient counter whatever it is should be fair.
Comments
You're a troll, so of course any sort of criticism you see you're going to instantly label as whining.
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"XY is Op, nerf you suckers" isnt criticism, its whining
google what criticism is, then come back at me
Google what straw-manning is then come back to me.
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Even the sloppiest TR out there (like me) can switch one of his passives for Tenacious Concealment and basically nullify any stealth loss from incoming damage.
Of course skilled rogues don't even need it since Sneak Attack provide such a huge movement speed bonus that even when not rolling away you can easily avoid those incredibly slow PBAoE.
And we're not even taking into account the fact that CoS has a wider range than Sunburst and the like.
But anyway, stealth builds are just a gimmick: it's a highly inefficient for PvE and hardly a crucial factor in PvP where gearscore is a major concern and focused burst damage is pretty much mandatory (even if I have yet to face a 5 men perma stealth rogue premade).
Anyway perma-stealth it's clearly not intended. None of the other "power featured" classes (GF, GWF, DC) has such a capability (have a 100% power uptime) therefore it's just a matter of time it will be fixed. Because yes, it's not even a nerf, it's just a broken mechanic.
Not about OP as more of a exploit that needs to be fixed and won't be tolerated.
perfectly stated.. Its not a nerf. Its just broken. 100% correct
Exactly, good players can understand quickly when something is obviously better than it should be.
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How do you know the Ranger is going to have stealth? That makes zero sense.
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its not an exploit just cause you suck at countering it
+1000
and this is what 400% of the forum whine is all about. everything is OP, nerf it all. i miss lvl 19 pvp
100% agree. Just ignore these trolls which are just afraid of beeing nerfed so that they would need some skill to win.
And here is the reason:
im not even a rogue, you just lack skill to win ..
edit: if i made a forum thread everytime i died the forum wud be full of "this is OP threads!"
oh wait. it already is
I wish they add Openworld PVP so we can **** PVE Grinders.
Things I would bet the farm on.
1) OP plays "mage class" in every game (lies about experience with other classes, minus leveling, which = whoop de do).
2) OP thinks nuking from range is perfectly balanced, and that it should have no counter.
3) OP is a facetanker, who never learned to kite in any mmo.
Same stuff. Different game. The cow goes moo, the mage class cries, and the priest class is right behind them, with both calling for nerfs on the stealth class, while people with warriors go huh?
Rock. paper scissors is just too difficult a concept to understand I guess.
you make me lol.
You see, it is a never ending cycle.
If we stealth, glue to you and BAM! smack you with a nasty amount of damage leaving you on death's door. Then shortly after that people will come to forum and ask nerfs on rogue damage (and we did get that).
Now if we stay stealthed nailing you guys with not a heavy hitter, but rather mittigating damage assuming you are a wooden door and take it all in with no dodge/shield/whatever defense mechanic any class has, then its a nerf on stealth you want and need because now you survive longer however you need to use half your brain to figure a tactic to get the rogue into your game (and many GOOD players already figured plenty of tactics that arent half as hard as you guys make it sound).
unfortunatelly for us we are undenyably squishy and the moment we go visible its game, set and match, we are done, so either we remain stealthed and use strategy to avoid being found out, or we better nail you down in one(two) hit(s), and both cases do not please you guys, what you want is rogue to be nerfed into oblivion and force us into popping out of stealth to not be able to finish you off fast to become a living pinnata for GFs/GWFs/CWs/other rogues.
Simple as that, thats the reasoning players follow when it is too hard to adapt
Also, we only have 1 ranged ability to use from stealth and it has charges, the others remove us from it unless we pop LA, and we dont have a pocket full of LAs to launch on our pvp matches, you see, we generate AP very slowly.
I know its used too much nowadays but there is no better sentence than "learn to play" to this case, yet people just take it as an insult and rather rant on and on and on until the nerf bat finally comes and rogues become just a trash class that has aboslutelly no use, and i bet anything i got that if we get hit by the nerfbat and still figure a way to nail down good for nothing players without durable stealth they will still come to forum and again create numerous threads asking for nerfs, thats just how scrubs work .
but if you dont believe fine, let perma stealth be nerfed to nothing and i will make a perma daze build to leave you guys defenseless as i plummet you with CoS and Sly along with dailies and good usage of the nerfed stealth, i assure you not 1 week will pass and nerf daze threads will pop like crazy because scrubs will be scrubs and will rather nerf things than adapt.
Oh gimme a break, there are plenty of viable ways to play a rogue where you can still do insane damage, there are rogues out there right now who are hitting 20-30k lashing blades.
Your main source of damage should not be coming from a ranged ability, simple as that, and if it does you should not be allowed to be invisible while doing it. I don't get whats so hard to understand about this. You're doing better damage than a CW as a melee class, bursting down people in seconds with an average gs, and you're also untargetable, how is this fair?
* TWITCH * YOUTUBE * MY GUIDES *
says the man who doesnt even know how to use his own class. If you read your own posts you will see they are all based on you getting facerolled with your class (preciselly because you refuse to set your encounters/at wills/dailies to an optimal combination against permastealth). If anyone lacks skill to win is you "bob", and more than one person on this thread taught you how to win WITH YOUR CLASS , and even pointed out the encounters and the effects they have to make it an easy learning section, but you are just ignorant by choice and nerfing is better than learning for you.
Wont waste another post on you, not worth it, just read what you already got and stop being a ignorant scrub.
yes there are many ways to instagib, yet as you will soon learn the moment scrubs get one shotted by anything, they will come to the forum faster than lightspeed to ask an absurd nerf on whatever caused the damage, and that procedure will keep rolling until rogue has no more damage. But if we have no more damage thanks to whiners and no stealth for survival again thanks to whiners, what good are we into any situation? We will be nothing but walking corpses.
Scrubs will always find something to cry for nerf and as i said, cryptic, bring down you heaviest nerf hammer on my perma stealth build and bring it now!!! I will take it head on and create another way to faceroll players and wait until you bring the nerf hammer down again because they will be too stupid to counter it and the forums will be flooded with the tears of my enemies again.
Also CoS isnt by far our main source of damage, far from it, its just the best we got for permastealth. Lashing blade/Impact shot/duelist are far better nukes/damage dealers and more praiseworthy than a 12 charge attack that takes 36 secs to be set again, but since they require a very dangerous gameplay from stealth (duelist) or remove it completelly, permastealths have to get the next best, and that is CoS.
But as i already mentioned, there are PLENTY methods to counter perma stealth, however some people are just too lazy to think about it and just come here to rant on forums for nerf. If it was IMPOSSIBLE (to the root of it) to counter us, i would agree....but since i know it IS NOT impossible to deal with perma stealth and that there are plenty ways to do it on all classes, sorry but i can't feel bad for you guys begging for a nerf.
/thread
It's not even a matter of damage. Smart perma stealth rogues don't need to kill anyone as long as they can permanently conquer one point. It takes 2 members of the opposing team to conquer a point with a rogue on it and it gives a huge advantage to your party (4 vs.3 >> 5 vs. 4).
And perma stealth can only be "countered" when the rogue makes a mistake. If played correctly there's no "convenient" way to unstealth a rogue. The only convenient way to deal with perma stealth rogues is just ignore them and focus on the other points; hoping that the rogue is stupid enough to, eventually, come into the battle worried about the fact that his team mates are going to be outplayed or just because he's too lazy to take the long route.
Neverwinter game design is different. As already stated, none of the other power featured classes (DC, GWF, GF) can achieve 100% uptime.
It's pretty clear that perma stealth is not intended. It may not be OP as claimed but it's obviously not intended.
Sorry dude, but it's also pretty clear you don't know what you are talking about. Put a GF or a GWF on the third point and you will need the same, if not more people, to try and nudge him off of it.
This thread is now 27 pages long, and I agree lots of misinformation is in there, but there are also numerous TR's telling you EXACTLY how to counter TR's IN STEALTH.
And then you still make the statement that there are no counters?
Put some more effort in playing instead of complaining, don't act deliberate ignorant or just dumb stubborn, and you will do better against all classes.
I'm sorry but it seems that you didn't read my previous post; there are several information in there about what a rogue can do in order to prevent or minimize what the opposite team as a whole can do about perma stealth and I know them just because I play rogue as well. And the only reason I can be detected is because I make a mistake or some lag/rubberbanding-related issues. No PBAoE has the same range of CoS, that's a fact. Once you know the range of such spells and you are smart enough not to stay in front of anyone then you're good to go.
I don't really want to derail the thread about what other classes can or can't do to defend a point (given that it's blatantly obvious that they are not in the same ballpark), I'm just stating what it's under everyone's eyes: no other classes can achieve a 100% "special stance" uptime.
Can be the TR an exception? Maybe, I hardly believe it.
CW. GF. GWF. None of my characters have issues w rogues.
"change your most important gap closer to a weak AoE skill which marks enemies around you"
...
1) reduzing overall damage
2) reducing mobilty
3) marks will be removed instantly because the TR did throw a dagger on the GF
"target him and do awesome things all the time!!!"
...
1) targeting them is nearly impossible because they are ... stealthed *applause*
2) they are jumping
3) you must know their exact position to target them (while they are not jumping and/or moving!), this is nearly impossible because of the hude range of CoS
"just dodge his CoS!!!"
...
1) well dodging his CoS changes nothing at all. Well the TR needs 1-3 more daggers to kill
2) the TR has enough time because they cant be hit except by very large AoE spells
"Use AoE Spells to damage them!!!!"
...
1) TR must be in range, most AoEs have a small radius around the player
2) TR is able to dodge the spells - most ranged AoEs got a animation/casttime which makes them easy to dodge.
Any more "hints" how to counter perma stealth TR? No? Well, stfu then!
And here is the reason:
You saw my stealth FAQ and just posted in it. You play a rogue. You know the long, long, laundry list of abilities in the TR class that extend stealth.
And yet you are wondering if 100% uptime is NOT intended?
Just think about it.
Perma stealth build will be nerfed not because of PVP but only for pve reasons, exactly as cleric was nerfed.
You don't want to nerf the perma stealth build ok to avoid some drama, so think about to give some skill love for useless class as cleric like "detect invisible" as passive skill.
A REAL quick and efficient counter whatever it is should be fair.