Explain how a CW does that as their health gets chewed down. Sure teleport and teleport how about just leave and dont contest.
I can face the class being the go to kill for DC GWF GF TR and other CWs but to have to put up with a well geared perma stealth cos spamming rogue is too much to ask.
you dodge his stuff, nuke his stealth away with aoe and simply kill him once he is visible
I still refuse to fight it because it actually isn't fighting. I got to know a pretty decent perma stealth rogue recently ended up in a match vs him. Left the game in the first 30 secs trying to cap my base on his first attack. He messaged me why did you leave. I am a GF. He said I know you are a pretty good PvPer. I said I just don't like the tactic and encourage anyone to face it to leave. My team left immediately after I did and he got no glory. I have talked to him since and actually came into a fight again with him serveral days latter since we both PvP a lot. I said hey there buddy I am about to leave and I did. Its not about counters or anything like that its just about how lame it is and how it ruins the game. I just feel there is no place for it in any game. Give a rogue some awesome tactics maybe a trap. Stealth is just for nubs and every MMO some idiot says I know lets give a rogue stealth. Then its lame as always.
Some say well maybe you should play a rogue and well I don't want to use stealth. I don't want to be on a team with it and don't care to face it and well I don't have to. I play this game for enjoyment and to have fun killing in PvP. There is no place for perma stealth in PvP so I just leave and find a real game without them so its not in my way. Its a great hard counter to this problem till its fixed. There needs to be some hard CDs on stealth since its in the game unfortunately. The first time a dagger is thrown it should break stealth then you are out of stealth to fight. Period. Don't know what is hard about making that happen.
I am sure a lot of rogues and player might disagree. BUT there are tons of players that feel the same way I do. I protest permastealth and you can to by /leave Soon as match starts.
I still refuse to fight it because it actually isn't fighting. I got to know a pretty decent perma stealth rogue recently ended up in a match vs him. Left the game in the first 30 secs trying to cap my base on his first attack. He messaged me why did you leave. I am a GF. He said I know you are a pretty good PvPer. I said I just don't like the tactic and encourage anyone to face it to leave. My team left immediately after I did and he got no glory. I have talked to him since and actually came into a fight again with him serveral days latter since we both PvP a lot. I said hey there buddy I am about to leave and I did. Its not about counters or anything like that its just about how lame it is and how it ruins the game. I just feel there is no place for it in any game. Give a rogue some awesome tactics maybe a trap. Stealth is just for nubs and every MMO some idiot says I know lets give a rogue stealth. Then its lame as always.
Some say well maybe you should play a rogue and well I don't want to use stealth. I don't want to be on a team with it and don't care to face it and well I don't have to. I play this game for enjoyment and to have fun killing in PvP. There is no place for perma stealth in PvP so I just leave and find a real game without them so its not in my way. Its a great hard counter to this problem till its fixed. There needs to be some hard CDs on stealth since its in the game unfortunately. The first time a dagger is thrown it should break stealth then you are out of stealth to fight. Period. Don't know what is hard about making that happen.
I am sure a lot of rogues and player might disagree. BUT there are tons of players that feel the same way I do. I protest permastealth and you can to by /leave Soon as match starts.
I do this too. As a CW i have to put up with being targeted by all the opposition but a stealthed class i cant see nuking me from range its just too much.
So you guys quit out of any match that has a TR in it? LOL
Nope just ones with a perma stealth rogue. I guess you dont know how to read. If it was just matches against rogues id never get a match considering they are the OP dps fanboi class.
Dont go in Pvp with your 9k GS <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> and expect to kill anyone .
Tip: perma stealth rogues takes a while to kill a good geared target , because they use weak encounters that keeps their stealth up. The main damage comes from their daggers and impact shot so really... if a TR can kill your entire HP with only 12 daggers... it means whether your shift button isn't working, or you are terribly geared.
Another tip: Smoke bombs and Steal Time ****s them up, you will break their stealth and they will have to regenerate it whether by waiting for it, or using shadow strike.. so once they are spotted cast any CC ability on them.
Nope just ones with a perma stealth rogue. I guess you dont know how to read. If it was just matches against rogues id never get a match considering they are the OP dps fanboi class.
They can ALL turn invisible. Any rogue can do it. Permastealth, or close enough to it, involves slotting a couple of powers and that's it. So do you hold interviews with the opposing team to find out if they are slotting Bait and Switch/Shadowstrike/Lurker's Assault before the match starts?
Look, I'm not gonna judge you and tell you how to live your life, man. All I'm doing here is laughing at you. That's it.
They can ALL turn invisible. Any rogue can do it. Permastealth, or close enough to it, involves slotting a couple of powers and that's it. So do you hold interviews with the opposing team to find out if they are slotting Bait and Switch/Shadowstrike/Lurker's Assault before the match starts?
Look, I'm not gonna judge you and tell you how to live your life, man. All I'm doing here is laughing at you. That's it.
Im not sure what your point but i can explain it slllooowly for yoooouu. There are stealthed rogues and perma stealthed rogues. Im not sure how hard it is for you to understand. Let me make it easy for you.
Yeah capgarnas, I know what a rogue is. I was wondering how you knew how the opposing players were built.
But I think we both know the real answer to that.
I can imagine that your definition of what determines an evil "permastealth" build is dependent upon if you are losing or not. If you are having a good match and winning, then the opposing rogues are okay. It's when you're losing that the rogues are suddenly changed beings who are OP due to stealth... time to quit.
You don't have to confirm or deny any of this, as it makes no difference anyway. As I said before, I am not judging you or the other "I quit" guy, and I've had my laugh already. There was never any point to make, nor any criticism.
Any rogue build whatsoever can achieve a really long stealth from slotting a couple of powers. If they invest into recovery and have a couple of certain feats, then it gets even longer. The difference between what you call a permastealth build from the others is that the permastealth does less damage. LESS.
Think about that for a minute.
I can understand if you are super-elitist and don't want such a wimp on your team, but quitting out of a match when the "bad guys" are permastealth?
Well, im GF. Perma stealth TR is not able to get in melee range without beeing hit by my bull charge. Most TRs cant kill me with 12 daggers from stealth. SOME TR are able to kill a 13k GS GF with 12 daggers. If they have more time, each perma stealth TR can kill me easily.
But: They dont kill me, they dont attack me, they kill my entire team (all CWs, TRs (without perma stealth) and all clerics). And then they try to kill me. Its devastating. Only GF and GWF stay allive vs perma stealth TR. Im not able to protect my teammates. Normally i stay close to them to kick of every melee class which is trying to kill my mates. But vs perma stealth TR i cant protect anything!
And: if im alone on a node, each perma stealth TR can kill me in ~30seconds. He is just running around and waiting for dagger recharge. Its annoying and not funny. Sometimes im lucky and hit them with frontline surge. Then, sometimes, im able to kill them because staelth may end for a very short duration.
Its just stupid. If im defending a node with a CW (= CW and GF on a node! Normally its something like a dream team if the GF is able to protect the CW), each perma stealth TR will kill the CW and me within a minute.
If you want people to stay for the match end even when you're sitting on a 600-10 score and you've decided to be ***-hats and spawn-camp, you need to give them a reason. Punishing them is not the answer. That's just pouring salt-acid into an already bleeding wound.
Well, im GF. Perma stealth TR is not able to get in melee range without beeing hit by my bull charge. Most TRs cant kill me with 12 daggers from stealth. SOME TR are able to kill a 13k GS GF with 12 daggers. If they have more time, each perma stealth TR can kill me easily.
But: They dont kill me, they dont attack me, they kill my entire team (all CWs, TRs (without perma stealth) and all clerics). And then they try to kill me. Its devastating. Only GF and GWF stay allive vs perma stealth TR. Im not able to protect my teammates. Normally i stay close to them to kick of every melee class which is trying to kill my mates. But vs perma stealth TR i cant protect anything!
And: if im alone on a node, each perma stealth TR can kill me in ~30seconds. He is just running around and waiting for dagger recharge. Its annoying and not funny. Sometimes im lucky and hit them with frontline surge. Then, sometimes, im able to kill them because staelth may end for a very short duration.
Its just stupid. If im defending a node with a CW (= CW and GF on a node! Normally its something like a dream team if the GF is able to protect the CW), each perma stealth TR will kill the CW and me within a minute.
This. And somehow in the opinion of these loudmouth rogues this is ABSOLUTELY RIGHT and all other classes have to l2p. Most rogueplayers sicken me.
I do this too. As a CW i have to put up with being targeted by all the opposition but a stealthed class i cant see nuking me from range its just too much.
A rogue shouldn't be the best ranged class. Soon as the first dagger leaves his hand it should bring him out of steath then it needs to be on a cool down if he wants to go back in stealth. This is such a easy fix.
You're complaining as a GF because your shield can't stop an attack on a different player. When you are trying to hold a point, and an enemy challenges you with harassment damage to get you to move... this is unfair. Because it is hard to see where the attacks are coming from, and you can't just easily teleport attack to annihilate them?
Let me ask you this: if it was not for the stealth, would the TR be any challenge to you whatsoever? I understand the frustration here, because the invisibility is a psychological thing more than anything else, and getting hit from somebody you can't easily see is disconcerting to say the least.
A rogue shouldn't be the best ranged class. Soon as the first dagger leaves his hand it should bring him out of steath then it needs to be on a cool down if he wants to go back in stealth. This is such a easy fix.
which would require a rework of 80% of the whole class
You're complaining as a GF because your shield can't stop an attack on a different player. When you are trying to hold a point, and an enemy challenges you with harassment damage to get you to move... this is unfair. Because it is hard to see where the attacks are coming from, and you can't just easily teleport attack to annihilate them?
Let me ask you this: if it was not for the stealth, would the TR be any challenge to you whatsoever? I understand the frustration here, because the invisibility is a psychological thing more than anything else, and getting hit from somebody you can't easily see is disconcerting to say the least.
Well they just need to rework other encounters. Stealth just is lame. Not only that the damage is insane from stealth throwing daggers taking down breaking a block meter in 3 secs is stupid. Stealth isn't a challenge its just not something I will ever fight is the point a lot of us are making. So you can roll perma stealth but I am leaving cause I don't have to fight that. Nor will I. Even if I counter it cause I decide to fight and beat the perma stealth rogue I just feel dirty and like time was wasted where I could of been in a real PvP match against players I can see instead of fighting ghost.
Let me get this straight:
You're complaining as a GF because your shield can't stop an attack on a different player. When you are trying to hold a point, and an enemy challenges you with harassment damage to get you to move... this is unfair. Because it is hard to see where the attacks are coming from, and you can't just easily teleport attack to annihilate them?
Let me ask you this: if it was not for the stealth, would the TR be any challenge to you whatsoever? I understand the frustration here, because the invisibility is a psychological thing more than anything else, and getting hit from somebody you can't easily see is disconcerting to say the least.
Well, TRs which are not Permastealth (or Perma stealth OR impossible to catch), lets say: Normal TRs, which are able to deal 20k damage with a single encounter - you know these guys - they are already hard, but its a challenge to fight them. Its all about tactics.
But perma stealth (or those which are using impossible to catch while visible!) is just lame. You cant fight them.
If you want people to stay for the match end even when you're sitting on a 600-10 score and you've decided to be ***-hats and spawn-camp, you need to give them a reason. Punishing them is not the answer. That's just pouring salt-acid into an already bleeding wound.
So the problem is not permastealth, in your opinion, but just stealth in general. Plus, the daggers do too much damage.
I'm sure you know that the daggers do crappy damage until you start getting the stacks built up from singling out a target repeatedly with them, but since it is PVP, it's not like there are a lot of different targets to choose from. I can understand how that seems unfair, considering that the person hucking the daggers at you is not readily visible and able to be instantly retaliated against.
But again, if it weren't for that stealth, you could teleport-attack, stunlock, and basically faceroll any TR as a GF. Many GFs apparently do this just fine even with the stealth there. Here's a bit of trivia for you: your lunge has a great deal more range than the TR daggers do. If you are getting hit by daggers, then the TR is not that far away.
PS Impossible to Catch lasts for all of 5 seconds. It has a long CD.
the TR is able to use stealth (normal, not perma!) to deal a high amount of damage! After this, the TR has to evade attacks. To do this, he is able to dodge at least(!) 2 times.
Lunging strike is dodged by every silly idiot!
Most TRs are just able to play perma stealth and if they would need skill to dodge some attacks, they are crying like babys. Good TRs are using dazing strike and impossible to catch to get more time to kill the GF while beeing safe. Some of them are adding smoke bomb but then the damage is quite low.
There are several builds for TR which require something which is called "skill". Well, most TRs dont have any skill, because they are just able to use 3 encounters to stay invisible. They read it in a guide and even stupid apes are able to play perma stealth, because you dont care about your enemy: Just stay stealthed and run around.
If a TR is visible... uhm... to much skill required for dodging or looking at the animations of the enemies to predict their attacks and to dodge them. Im able to block EACH entangle of CWs because i know the animation of ALL CC skills to raise my shield in the right moment. So i think YOU should be able to dodge correctly too.
Its just stupid!
Dodging at TR is used to fill stealth bar only...
use it to dodge! Well you would need some skill to do this...
If you want people to stay for the match end even when you're sitting on a 600-10 score and you've decided to be ***-hats and spawn-camp, you need to give them a reason. Punishing them is not the answer. That's just pouring salt-acid into an already bleeding wound.
The lunge reference was to give an idea of range, masu84... not saying that's the answer to stealth LOL.
Edit: so you would agree with the idea that people who play TRs are those who cannot hack it playing a "real" class, then? They are not able to block/dodge due to being lame and so must rely on stealth?
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begottentombMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 4Arc User
edited July 2013
The throwing daggers really don't do that much damage and you run out of them anyway.
But perma stealth (or those which are using impossible to catch while visible!) is just lame. You cant fight them.
If that were true, wouldn't every team with a permastealth rogue automatically win? And seeing how that isn't the case.... I'd say it's more likely you are not paying attention to the many dedicated TR's here who are telling you on how to counter them.
If you can honestly say that you can't stumble upon a stealthed TR with four people running around the platform and put some kind of effect on him, then I honestly think you really need to learn a lot more about the game before you start complaining.
Comments
or in short (and just for you): learn to play
Some say well maybe you should play a rogue and well I don't want to use stealth. I don't want to be on a team with it and don't care to face it and well I don't have to. I play this game for enjoyment and to have fun killing in PvP. There is no place for perma stealth in PvP so I just leave and find a real game without them so its not in my way. Its a great hard counter to this problem till its fixed. There needs to be some hard CDs on stealth since its in the game unfortunately. The first time a dagger is thrown it should break stealth then you are out of stealth to fight. Period. Don't know what is hard about making that happen.
I am sure a lot of rogues and player might disagree. BUT there are tons of players that feel the same way I do. I protest permastealth and you can to by /leave Soon as match starts.
I do this too. As a CW i have to put up with being targeted by all the opposition but a stealthed class i cant see nuking me from range its just too much.
Lol thank you from the fanboi who rolled the OP class. Learn to play boy is back in business.
Nope just ones with a perma stealth rogue. I guess you dont know how to read. If it was just matches against rogues id never get a match considering they are the OP dps fanboi class.
Tip: perma stealth rogues takes a while to kill a good geared target , because they use weak encounters that keeps their stealth up. The main damage comes from their daggers and impact shot so really... if a TR can kill your entire HP with only 12 daggers... it means whether your shift button isn't working, or you are terribly geared.
Another tip: Smoke bombs and Steal Time ****s them up, you will break their stealth and they will have to regenerate it whether by waiting for it, or using shadow strike.. so once they are spotted cast any CC ability on them.
They can ALL turn invisible. Any rogue can do it. Permastealth, or close enough to it, involves slotting a couple of powers and that's it. So do you hold interviews with the opposing team to find out if they are slotting Bait and Switch/Shadowstrike/Lurker's Assault before the match starts?
Look, I'm not gonna judge you and tell you how to live your life, man. All I'm doing here is laughing at you. That's it.
Im not sure what your point but i can explain it slllooowly for yoooouu. There are stealthed rogues and perma stealthed rogues. Im not sure how hard it is for you to understand. Let me make it easy for you.
Perma stealth
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?324111-Build-Guide-quot-INT-Rogue-quot-Perma-Stealth-Build
As opposed to stealth based
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?295232-Banelorne-s-Stealth-Based-Trickster-Rogue-Build
If you PVP enough you would know. Now go ask your mum to tell you your special. Its okay to be stupid lots of people are.
But I think we both know the real answer to that.
I can imagine that your definition of what determines an evil "permastealth" build is dependent upon if you are losing or not. If you are having a good match and winning, then the opposing rogues are okay. It's when you're losing that the rogues are suddenly changed beings who are OP due to stealth... time to quit.
You don't have to confirm or deny any of this, as it makes no difference anyway. As I said before, I am not judging you or the other "I quit" guy, and I've had my laugh already. There was never any point to make, nor any criticism.
Think about that for a minute.
I can understand if you are super-elitist and don't want such a wimp on your team, but quitting out of a match when the "bad guys" are permastealth?
But: They dont kill me, they dont attack me, they kill my entire team (all CWs, TRs (without perma stealth) and all clerics). And then they try to kill me. Its devastating. Only GF and GWF stay allive vs perma stealth TR. Im not able to protect my teammates. Normally i stay close to them to kick of every melee class which is trying to kill my mates. But vs perma stealth TR i cant protect anything!
And: if im alone on a node, each perma stealth TR can kill me in ~30seconds. He is just running around and waiting for dagger recharge. Its annoying and not funny. Sometimes im lucky and hit them with frontline surge. Then, sometimes, im able to kill them because staelth may end for a very short duration.
Its just stupid. If im defending a node with a CW (= CW and GF on a node! Normally its something like a dream team if the GF is able to protect the CW), each perma stealth TR will kill the CW and me within a minute.
And here is the reason:
This. And somehow in the opinion of these loudmouth rogues this is ABSOLUTELY RIGHT and all other classes have to l2p. Most rogueplayers sicken me.
A rogue shouldn't be the best ranged class. Soon as the first dagger leaves his hand it should bring him out of steath then it needs to be on a cool down if he wants to go back in stealth. This is such a easy fix.
You're complaining as a GF because your shield can't stop an attack on a different player. When you are trying to hold a point, and an enemy challenges you with harassment damage to get you to move... this is unfair. Because it is hard to see where the attacks are coming from, and you can't just easily teleport attack to annihilate them?
Let me ask you this: if it was not for the stealth, would the TR be any challenge to you whatsoever? I understand the frustration here, because the invisibility is a psychological thing more than anything else, and getting hit from somebody you can't easily see is disconcerting to say the least.
which would require a rework of 80% of the whole class
first think, then post
Then rework it! At the moment rogue class are just making PvP a miserable experience to everyone (except maybe sentinel GWF, I rolled one)
Well they just need to rework other encounters. Stealth just is lame. Not only that the damage is insane from stealth throwing daggers taking down breaking a block meter in 3 secs is stupid. Stealth isn't a challenge its just not something I will ever fight is the point a lot of us are making. So you can roll perma stealth but I am leaving cause I don't have to fight that. Nor will I. Even if I counter it cause I decide to fight and beat the perma stealth rogue I just feel dirty and like time was wasted where I could of been in a real PvP match against players I can see instead of fighting ghost.
ROFL
thanks for that good afternoon laugh
Its impossible to stop them in killing my mates.
Its impossible to stop them killing me.
Its just waiting for dead. Nothing else.
Well, TRs which are not Permastealth (or Perma stealth OR impossible to catch), lets say: Normal TRs, which are able to deal 20k damage with a single encounter - you know these guys - they are already hard, but its a challenge to fight them. Its all about tactics.
But perma stealth (or those which are using impossible to catch while visible!) is just lame. You cant fight them.
And here is the reason:
So the problem is not permastealth, in your opinion, but just stealth in general. Plus, the daggers do too much damage.
I'm sure you know that the daggers do crappy damage until you start getting the stacks built up from singling out a target repeatedly with them, but since it is PVP, it's not like there are a lot of different targets to choose from. I can understand how that seems unfair, considering that the person hucking the daggers at you is not readily visible and able to be instantly retaliated against.
But again, if it weren't for that stealth, you could teleport-attack, stunlock, and basically faceroll any TR as a GF. Many GFs apparently do this just fine even with the stealth there. Here's a bit of trivia for you: your lunge has a great deal more range than the TR daggers do. If you are getting hit by daggers, then the TR is not that far away.
PS Impossible to Catch lasts for all of 5 seconds. It has a long CD.
the TR is able to use stealth (normal, not perma!) to deal a high amount of damage! After this, the TR has to evade attacks. To do this, he is able to dodge at least(!) 2 times.
Lunging strike is dodged by every silly idiot!
Most TRs are just able to play perma stealth and if they would need skill to dodge some attacks, they are crying like babys. Good TRs are using dazing strike and impossible to catch to get more time to kill the GF while beeing safe. Some of them are adding smoke bomb but then the damage is quite low.
There are several builds for TR which require something which is called "skill". Well, most TRs dont have any skill, because they are just able to use 3 encounters to stay invisible. They read it in a guide and even stupid apes are able to play perma stealth, because you dont care about your enemy: Just stay stealthed and run around.
If a TR is visible... uhm... to much skill required for dodging or looking at the animations of the enemies to predict their attacks and to dodge them. Im able to block EACH entangle of CWs because i know the animation of ALL CC skills to raise my shield in the right moment. So i think YOU should be able to dodge correctly too.
Its just stupid!
Dodging at TR is used to fill stealth bar only...
use it to dodge! Well you would need some skill to do this...
And here is the reason:
shows how little you know
Edit: so you would agree with the idea that people who play TRs are those who cannot hack it playing a "real" class, then? They are not able to block/dodge due to being lame and so must rely on stealth?
If that were true, wouldn't every team with a permastealth rogue automatically win? And seeing how that isn't the case.... I'd say it's more likely you are not paying attention to the many dedicated TR's here who are telling you on how to counter them.
If you can honestly say that you can't stumble upon a stealthed TR with four people running around the platform and put some kind of effect on him, then I honestly think you really need to learn a lot more about the game before you start complaining.
I guess, but look at all the digital testosterone flying around, that can't be healthy for a person's stresslevel