I'm sorry but I have some bad news: no matter how many threads you fill with your screed, there will be no nerf or "fix" to permastealth, because it is working as intended.
Lol, you're in for a rude awakening. The premise alone that TR's using this build have and still can solo end game boss content is reason enough for them to look into "fixing" the issue. The usage in pvp garners the most attention and just that much more reasoning. Some sort of change is inevitable and you can live in your world of denial if it pleases you, but it is coming.. jus fyi
Lol, you're in for a rude awakening. The premise alone that TR's using this build have and still can solo end game boss content is reason enough for them to look into "fixing" the issue. The usage in pvp garners the most attention and just that much more reasoning. Some sort of change is inevitable and you can live in your world of denial if it pleases you, but it is coming.. jus fyi
Hey if it makes you feel better, by all means keep wishing for that next nerf. I will say this: permastealth (INT-based) rogues are not so great in PVE, if you go to the thieves den and look for yourself you will see "PVP only" plastered all over the thread. It is a niche build with several key weaknesses that many other players have discovered already.
PVE-wise, permastealth is not going to go away without getting rid of gloaming cut, the feats for it, bait and switch, shadow strike, the feats for prolonging stealth, the feats for adding stealth from dodging, lurker's assault, the tenacious concealment class feature, recharge bonuses from INT, recovery affecting CDs... in other words, everything that makes the class unique and not just another melee. As I stated before, we are talking about a rework of the entire class.
I suppose that's possible... but is it likely? Tough call, man.
Oh I forgot because the initial build is directed towards pvp, people can't change equipment/powers to make it viable in pve. Not really any point in this argument, honestly. Neither point can be proved or disproved. I'll agree to disagree with you and only time will tell. I've been leveling up a int rogue atm anyways just to get in on some of the lawlz.
Oh I forgot because the initial build is directed towards pvp, people can't change equipment/powers to make it viable in pve. Not really any point in this argument, honestly. Neither point can be proved or disproved. I'll agree to disagree with you and only time will tell. I've been leveling up a int rogue atm anyways just to get in on some of the lawlz.
This is a sane and adult way to end this. Thank you. I will agree with you in the same fashion, because you are right... there is no point to make here. The devs play these classes and run their own numbers... they know what they intended to make, and our forum input has little to do with anything at all.
Glad to see that you are lvling a rogue yourself, I hope you are having fun with it.
Glad to see that you are lvling a rogue yourself, I hope you are having fun with it.
Dev's do play these classes and run their own numbers but they don't always run every possible scenario with the numbers. We've seen how well they've done with the numerous exploits that have happened during open beta and that probably still continue and/or being found here after release. Not to mention buffs made to GWF were not properly tested. Unless you think GWF's ability to roll over people in a 3v1 is working as intended.
It's my 3rd rogue, so I'm no stranger to its lawl capabilities.. and I'm sure I'll find the cheesy lawlz of perma stealth possibly even more enjoyable. Thanks tho! :cool:
Dev's do play these classes and run their own numbers but they don't always run every possible scenario with the numbers. We've seen how well they've done with the numerous exploits that have happened during open beta and that probably still continue and/or being found here after release. Not to mention buffs made to GWF were not properly tested. Unless you think GWF's ability to roll over people in a 3v1 is working as intended.
It's my 3rd rogue, so I'm no stranger to its lawl capabilities.. and I'm sure I'll find the cheesy lawlz of perma stealth possibly even more enjoyable. Thanks tho! :cool:
Gwfs are easy. Ppl just suck. 2 encounter cycles from any of my 60s will burn em.
Pro tip: Dodge/block encounters. Kite unstoppable. GG.
However, being perma stealthed, and Immune to everything while your in it as totally differant.
What you are describing here is the gestalt of Lurker's Assault, Impossible to Catch, and stealth being activated all at once. This involves popping a daily and an encounter that only lasts for 5 secs with a long CD. 5 seconds is not permanent, nor does a rogue have massive amounts of dailys to use all the time. If you use Impossible to Catch from stealth WITHOUT also popping lurkers beforehand, it breaks you out of stealth and empties your bar.
Just FYI... this is not something that a rogue can do constantly or even much at all.
rogues arent immune to anything when in stealth...its post like these that make people like you look dumb
Let's not be nasty, bro... there's no call for that. If somebody doesn't know the inner mechanics of the TR class and makes some bad assumptions, that doesn't mean they are dumb. Hasty, yes... but not dumb.
Let's not be nasty, bro... there's no call for that. If somebody doesn't know the inner mechanics of the TR class and makes some bad assumptions, that doesn't mean they are dumb. Hasty, yes... but not dumb.
Really laughably stupid when people say "stealth"is OP....considering it is core mechanic of the rogue and they are uselessly squishy without it. Ummmm AOE and your control still affects us while in stealth....control and your control still affects us in stealth...AOE and you liley pull us out of stealth...basically play smarter and try not to act <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> and you can easily squash even a good rogue with a little teamwork. Baddies be bad. Rest of you just stfu and stop whining and crying becaue you suck at understanding your class and others...UGH
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borgued3Member, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 150Bounty Hunter
edited July 2013
Ok, how can i state this without hurting the OP feelings?
Lets try this:
Are we rogues a class with loads of recovery/defense to soak up damage or huge amounts of hp to our disposal? No? Right, so it is easy to assume that once we are spotted we will be squashed like bugs by any heavy hitters, such as gwf/GF/CW/Another rogues.
Also, rogues who choose this build must give up their nuking power in order to survive. Just look our shortcut bar
at will 1 - gleaming cut/duelist flurry (only if you know how to use without fail)/sly flourish, and of course, all of those require you to get into the field of vision of your target.
at will 2 - CoS, that can be dodged and has a short range, to a point where a simple roll/telport/dash to the direction of the knifes = you having to get away to not be spotted, and deppending on enemy positioning you may scape 1 person to fall into the lap of his friends. And of course, if you cant kill your target with your initial pack of 12 knifes, its gonna be a pain chasing that enemy away.
encounter 1 - shadow strike, needless to say that the biggest use is a short daze and stealth refil, damage is as good as nothing and the animation time+range make it easy for you to miscalculate and end up out of stealth (say noone is nearby for you to hit or the target you were planning to hit just got our of reach in the nick of time, its bye bye stealth for you)
encounter 2 -B&S, again, only use is refil stealth, and if someone is dumb enough to attack it, refill AP.
encounter 3 - here is usually where we would put a nuke, or something usefull from stealth, but if we aim perma stealth it will be most likelly be itc or path of blades (to be cast prior to stealth to poke out another stealth rogues, but that will also reveal our position to some point since when someone gets poked he will assume a perma is passing by). Some may take impact shot to extra ranged damage, but that will pop us out of stealth and give clear target to heavy hitters, unless our team has someone that can save us from being squashed. Some may take smoke bomb but that wont save us from ranged attackers (other permas, CWs and DCs) that decide to nail us from outside the smoke
dailies i dont need to mention, because considering we are the slowest on ap generation we will be lucky if we get 4 dailies up in 1 match so we most of the time keep them on our pockets as a last resort to guarantee a kill.
People keep saying "perma stealth requires no skill", or "anyone can do it", or " easy build herp derp" and the people that say those stuff leave an obvious "i am full of <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>" mark right in their foreheads. Dont believe those noobs guys, they obviously never played a permastealth rogue on arena and are basing their comments on videos of good players rolling the build and making it seem easier than it really is.
This build requires playing skills on everything, not a single miscalculation is forgiven, be it bad timing to keep the rotation, movement flaws, bad positioning, bad judgement on when to use a nuke/damage dealer on the arena or even a repel/aoe daily from enemy CWs/DCs towards your allies that you didnt see coming and caught you as bonus effect for being too close at the time. Any of the flaws above can get us out of stealth and pretty much give a free kill to the closest enemy unless you can react fast to it and try to fix what was messed up while being beaten.
Good permas will be challenging and will seem very OP, but so will good players on any class.
What good does the ability to move do when you cannot do anything else, I just cannot grasp what you are trying to prove here.
if you can move, deppending on your move speed you can still avoid some damage and force the rogue to roll/chase after you which consumes time he could be at willing/encountering your butt, and if your team isnt utter <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> they can CC the rogue because the daze effect comes form encounters that blow off the stealth, almost making a shiny arrow with "kill me" written on it to appear over its head.
But wait, what does the knock downs of the GF/GWFs do to us? Or stuns? or freeze/levitaton from cws? Yep, totally unbalanced the daze effect.....kids these days
1) selective memory and they are DPS...its known that most people like DPS
In PvE you meet many Clerics and GFs. Why dont they play PvP? Because especially the Clerics have no chance in PvP. And the GFs need much more skill because the cant dodge, they must know each CC skill and its animation to block it, they must turn their shield to the correct player to block the attacks.
Less (lesser then TRs) CWs are there because they are slain instantly by TRs and GWFs.
The number of GWFs in PvP increased since last patch extremely, before the "balancing patch", the GWF was more rare then GFs in PvP.
2) killstealting and such? and even if, kills mean nothing anyway
Well in case that im not on rank#1 in PvP its allways a TR with 20+ kills and 1-2 deaths. Doesnt look like kill stealing. Looks like: TR is the only class which cant be targeted (=killed) if its a perma stealth bob.
3) Perma stealth TRs cant be targeted if the keep a little distance between them and their target.
3) so they are smart and you are not...aint a rogue problem, its a problem of you not beeing smart (like moving towards them or nuking their stealthmeter with aoe)
Well, they move faster (class skill), they are invisible (class skill), they can dodge roll(class skill) to increase the distance if im getting closer.
Its nothing about beeing "smarter", its just abusing skills which arent balanced. As a GF you cant get in range for frontline surge if the TR isnt an idiot. And even if you are in range: you must know the TRs position exactly! And if the GF got the positiojn of the TR and is in range, the TR is able to dodge frontline surge. Now the GF has to wait 25seconds for the next try.
Uhm yea, its all about "beein smart" lol... stfu stupid bob!
4) TRs are able to kill a CW by using 12 daggers without beein targetable or visible
4) other classes can do that too, not a rogue problem
Do we play the same game?!
Other classes cant kill other players within 10 seconds while their opponents cant see and target them!
other classes got perma stealth?
Each CW which is targeting a single enemy can be killed easily by the teammate of his target. I can protect each cleric from beeing killed by a CW because i charge them instantly and they have to stop attacking or they die! But TR? He is just running around stealthed and continues his attacks.
Lets try to compare: Perma stealth is much stronger than an unlimited(!!) guardmeter! Because the GF has disadvantiges while raising his shield: he is slow and cant use encounters while shield is up.
in short: you suck, learn to play, sorry to be that harsh but its like that
I like the stupid "l2p-statements" of TRs which are afraid of beeing nerfed because they did never learn anything about tactics, teamplay, dodging, ... pre patch you did onehit everything and now you are perma stealth.
Well i would be afraid of a nerf too if i would be such a lowskilled player.
stop crying for nerfs about something just cause you are to unskilled to find a solution to fight it....lots of people have done that befor (thats also one of the reasons why rogues are worse then GWF and GFs and sometimes CWs), you can do it too, all it takes is osme little effort that is not spend on crying but on learning
LOL
A GWF cant kill a perma stealth TR. No chance. Even GWF and GF using 7 greater Tenebrous have no chance vs a perma stealth TR. Maybe they kill the entire team but not the perma stealth bob. And a perma stealth TR is killing a player every 30secs. Sounds fair :X
Well all in all your statements sounds like this:
1) you are unable to keep the GF and GWF away from you
2) you are unable to dodge
3) your GS 5000 TR need hours to kill someone while perma stealthed.
Well, most (something around 99%) other perma stealth TRs are able to dodge and to stay in distance to GWF/GF. And they are able to kill GF/GWF just by using 15-20 daggers = something around 15-25 seconds.
If you want people to stay for the match end even when you're sitting on a 600-10 score and you've decided to be ***-hats and spawn-camp, you need to give them a reason. Punishing them is not the answer. That's just pouring salt-acid into an already bleeding wound.
Let's not be nasty, bro... there's no call for that. If somebody doesn't know the inner mechanics of the TR class and makes some bad assumptions, that doesn't mean they are dumb. Hasty, yes... but not dumb.
Fine, let's not upset the troll's feelings and simply call it deliberate ignorant.
There is tons of information in this thread, buried under persistent misconception and people all to happy prolonging that to get a kick on the forum. Again kudo's to the folks who take time to actually try and help out, but there is no remedy against deliberate ignorance.
Don't argue with them, they'll only drag you down to their level and beat you with years of experience.
Fine, let's not upset the troll's feelings and simply call it deliberate ignorant.
There is tons of information in this thread, buried under persistent misconception and people all to happy prolonging that to get a kick on the forum. Again kudo's to the folks who take time to actually try and help out, but there is no remedy against deliberate ignorance.
Don't argue with them, they'll only drag you down to their level and beat you with years of experience.
LOL, fair enough. Although in my defense, there were a couple of folks posting that weren't trolls.
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borgued3Member, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 150Bounty Hunter
edited July 2013
What a juicy load of <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>....well, lets begin
In PvE you meet many Clerics and GFs. Why dont they play PvP? Because especially the Clerics have no chance in PvP. And the GFs need much more skill because the cant dodge, they must know each CC skill and its animation to block it, they must turn their shield to the correct player to block the attacks.
1 word bro, skills. Good clerics and good GFs make all the difference in pvp, i know because the good ones give me hell and can turn the tide of fight just as easily as any perma stealth, the only determining factor is what is between the chair and the keyboard. The reason you see less is because they very likelly get there, play wrong, get stomped and quit, or have the misfortune of getting hit by the exact class they cant compete against and get frustrated, but i bet my 2 cents that the real reason is: they think of entering pvp to faceroll solo game and reach top score, and forget that pvp is a team game, so it doesnt matter if they dont faceroll as long as they are an asset that can lead the team to victory, unfortunatelly that view isnt as popular as "i will enter pvp and score the highest on kills trololol" .
Good players on those specific classes put up an awessome performance on teamfights
The number of GWFs in PvP increased since last patch extremely, before the "balancing patch", the GWF was more rare then GFs in PvP.
Yep, and see what they are in pvp now, gl trying to stand face to face with that...and asking for nerfs for rogues....gotta be kidding (not asking for nerfs for gwf btw)
Well in case that im not on rank#1 in PvP its allways a TR with 20+ kills and 1-2 deaths. Doesnt look like kill stealing. Looks like: TR is the only class which cant be targeted (=killed) if its a perma stealth bob.
cant be targeted = cant be killed? jesus christ you are dense. AoE son, all classes have it and some have enough area of effect to nail down a rogue with ease because if you didnt notice we lose stealth time everytime we take damage (stealth takes quite some time to drop, but when you get hit it just gets sucked out almost instantly). Just because you dont know how to use them doesnt mean everybody will wait for rogues to appear to do something. Any player who isnt braindead will see where the knifes are coming, close the gap and bust an aoe to try to shorten the stealth, also the time the rogue will dodge to avoid you closing in, he isnt attacking, and wasting stealth time while at it, just put pressure and you will force him to make a wrong move, which is deadly for that class.
Well, they move faster (class skill), they are invisible (class skill), they can dodge roll(class skill) to increase the distance if im getting closer.
well, we arent the rock rogues, we are trickster rogues, you want us to stand still in stealth until you bump into us?
Its nothing about beeing "smarter", its just abusing skills which arent balanced. As a GF you cant get in range for frontline surge if the TR isnt an idiot. And even if you are in range: you must know the TRs position exactly! And if the GF got the positiojn of the TR and is in range, the TR is able to dodge frontline surge. Now the GF has to wait 25seconds for the next try.
Uhm yea, its all about "beein smart" lol... stfu stupid bob!
what i could deduce is that you are a GF and you are complaining you cant beat a rogue...well, dont know if you noticed but as long as you can block and endure you are keeping that particular rogue stuck to you and not at your squishy teammates. Be grateful that a rogue chose to pick you out of your team to beat down, because you can sure last longer than a CW or another TR. And if you are a good GF and the rogue is really dumb, he will waste a lot of time trying to CoS + PoB you to death (btw you know SE wont work on you if you have block up, just a hint so you can make the rogue chew your health all the way to the botton rather than take a shortcut on your 20% health remaining, thus earning more time for your team). And of course, nothing stops you from roaming around the area you think the rogue is and try to spot him (if you are fast the moment he is spotted is 5 secconds before the moment he is drolling on the floor after you finish him)
Other classes cant kill other players within 10 seconds while their opponents cant see and target them!
other classes got perma stealth?
i know i wont even last 5 secs if a good CW/GWF/GF manages to target me, so imo if i take 10 secs to kill you i am still much slower than at least 3 classes on this game
Each CW which is targeting a single enemy can be killed easily by the teammate of his target. I can protect each cleric from beeing killed by a CW because i charge them instantly and they have to stop attacking or they die! But TR? He is just running around stealthed and continues his attacks.
well, if you have a good cleric or a rogue running around you with PoB, or a wizard with his daily/repel on, or a gwf running around you untill he spots the rogue you will also have a chance, that is a little thing that people keep forgetting called teamwork. PvP is a 5v5 match, and if on that aspect you see yourself alone against a rogue, specially as a GF, then you deserve what is coming for you, and even so its not a bad thing for your team because you are keeping the rogue busy.
As a permastealth one of my main objectives is backcap, and i can't curse loud enough to express my frustration when i get to enemy back flag and a GF is sitting there to hold it. And of course, if you use ingame voip, or ts, or any voice communication device (hell even type on chat if needed) to get 1 more person from your team to back up and help incase you dont want to delay the rogue but rather survive him or even beat him its just that easy, again, teamwork.
Lets try to compare: Perma stealth is much stronger than an unlimited(!!) guardmeter! Because the GF has disadvantiges while raising his shield: he is slow and cant use encounters while shield is up.
and will take eternity to die, lets reiforce that a bit more until it finally sinks in
I like the stupid "l2p-statements" of TRs which are afraid of beeing nerfed because they did never learn anything about tactics, teamplay, dodging, ... pre patch you did onehit everything and now you are perma stealth.
Well i would be afraid of a nerf too if i would be such a lowskilled player.
read my previous post above yours on the part concering the skill required to use permastealth, even try to run one if you dont believe, you will see how much skill it takes
Also, i am not afraid of being nerfed, if my class really was unbalanced to a point only a nerf could solve i would say so, however i dont want the nerfbat hitting classes just because players are too unskilled to deal with them. When the problem isnt on the class but on who is getting facerolled by it, nerf isnt a viable solution, like it or not it is a l2p case here, no more to add.
A GWF cant kill a perma stealth TR. No chance. Even GWF and GF using 7 greater Tenebrous have no chance vs a perma stealth TR. Maybe they kill the entire team but not the perma stealth bob. And a perma stealth TR is killing a player every 30secs. Sounds fair :X
if they can kill the entire enemy team and only the permastealth is left standing i believe they are on the winning side, because 1 player cant do anything against 2 players who steamrolled 90% of his team, the best he can do is to stay alive and try to backcap, and if you read my post this far you will see it is easy to frustrate that being a gwf or gf, specially because the enemy rogue needs to be in a certain area to dispute the flag, and if he is there, you have an overall knowledge of his position, you just need to narrow it down a bit more, dont be lazy.
Again, if the rogue takes 30 secs to kill anyone, is because the cleric is not doing his job and he is still far slower than at least 3 classes we all know who instagib anything.
1) you are unable to keep the GF and GWF away from you
2) you are unable to dodge
3) your GS 5000 TR need hours to kill someone while perma stealthed.
Well, most (something around 99%) other perma stealth TRs are able to dodge and to stay in distance to GWF/GF. And they are able to kill GF/GWF just by using 15-20 daggers = something around 15-25 seconds.
then the gwf/gf getting those knifes suck and have no healers on their team, also if you can hold a rogue 15-25 secs on you again, you are gaining precious time for your team, never understimate holding down a rogue for that amount of time (but i doubt any decent gwf/gf lasts only that much, unless they are way undergeared)
Gratz, you're describing another build (for GWFs) that is totally overpowered in pvp. And using TR as an example to what can't kill you proves this even more. If a TR can't kill you then noone can.
GWF's are out of hand and so are TR's ranging people down from stealth. Stealth is suppose to be something that either helps the Assassin archetype escape OR helps them sneak up on someone and deliver a devastating attack. Stealth is not there so that you can just run around as a ghost and kill people without even using a melee ability. All the best players understand this.
Well on my GF I have around 40%DR, so it's a similar dynamic with block to soak up the damage. Just stay on the tower, and it will take years before they force you to run. Stack on regen if you feel like staying there forever...really it's the same dynamic. If they have their daily up, there's a good chance you'll die, but that happens in a normal TR build anyways. In objective play, staying on the tower == win.
I honestly get 2x more kills with my GF due to their high sustainable burst and gap closers, I just die a few times more from the lack of escape. Melee classes are just strong now in this game, as they well should be.
Also, I'm not saying permastealth shouldn't be adjusted for the health of the game, I'm just saying there are certainly counters where people have been saying there weren't.
What a juicy load of <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>....well, lets begin
1 word bro, skills. Good clerics and good GFs make all the difference in pvp, i know because the good ones give me hell and can turn the tide of fight just as easily as any perma stealth, the only determining factor is what is between the chair and the keyboard. The reason you see less is because they very likelly get there, play wrong, get stomped and quit, or have the misfortune of getting hit by the exact class they cant compete against and get frustrated, but i bet my 2 cents that the real reason is: they think of entering pvp to faceroll solo game and reach top score, and forget that pvp is a team game, so it doesnt matter if they dont faceroll as long as they are an asset that can lead the team to victory, unfortunatelly that view isnt as popular as "i will enter pvp and score the highest on kills trololol" .
In other words: GF and clerics require much more skill. Most players are not able to play GF or cleric successfully in PvP so they quit PvP.
Good players on those specific classes put up an awessome performance on teamfights
In case that 1-2 perma stealth TRs are kicking the most important players, there wont be any teamplay because the team is waiting for respawn. Yesterday i got a really nice cleric in my team and, as usual i'd stay close to him to protect him because EVERYONE is just focusing the cleric. I saw two horses, then they vanished - oh 2 TR. Well id run around to get close to them (hopefully) to stun them, but my cleric was down after 5seconds. No chance to target them. I missed my first frontline surge (direction lookt correct, but he ran out of range) and then i had to wait 25sec for the next one. During this time i died too. No chance. They repeated this many times. A GWF came around to protect the cleric too, but he died too.
Just 2 TRs perma stealth at the middle node and my entire team had no chance to get them. A CW tried singularity, well we got them by singularity. It was lucky. But they came back after 15 seconds and they killed us again. Next singularity did not help, the dodged out of range.
Al other AoEs by CW damaged the TRs slightly, but they did not become visible, they got just 4k damage and continued killing us. The other 3 players of the enemies team tried to get our #1 node. If we gave up the middle the TR would start spawn camping or would help to conquer #1!
No chance at all. it was just "waiting until respawn". Nothing else.
I am pretty sure we are playing different games, i never entered a pvp match that had no CWs, in fact i find them more often than rogues.
Well maybe you thought that the big guy with his two handed sword is just a great CW :x
There are more CWs than GWF,GF or clerics, but a PvP without at least 4 TR is very rare for me. Sometimes its just 4TR+4CW + 2 random classes. Its annyoing. Well the CWs are balanced now. Its impossible to kill a good CW as GF, but im able to prevent them from killing my team, i can push them back. If they wont go back to kite me, they will die.
Yep, and see what they are in pvp now, gl trying to stand face to face with that...and asking for nerfs for rogues....gotta be kidding (not asking for nerfs for gwf btw)
Well, just dodge (or block) the GWFs main damage skills and kill him. While he is unstoppable: run away/around. If unstoppable is over: Kill him. GF vs GWF is quite fair (well in case that both players dont use tenebrous!).
cant be targeted = cant be killed? jesus christ you are dense. AoE son, all classes have it and some have enough area of effect to nail down a rogue with ease because if you didnt notice we lose stealth time everytime we take damage (stealth takes quite some time to drop, but when you get hit it just gets sucked out almost instantly). Just because you dont know how to use them doesnt mean everybody will wait for rogues to appear to do something. Any player who isnt braindead will see where the knifes are coming, close the gap and bust an aoe to try to shorten the stealth, also the time the rogue will dodge to avoid you closing in, he isnt attacking, and wasting stealth time while at it, just put pressure and you will force him to make a wrong move, which is deadly for that class.
All classes have AoE stuns? Well, if i NEED a daily skill to prevent a TR from using his at will skills, its looking quite unfair. Most classes are able to damage a TR by using AoEs but damaging them is not enough. They stay stealthed and they continue in killing their enemys.
well, we arent the rock rogues, we are trickster rogues, you want us to stand still in stealth until you bump into us?
All i want is that the TR isnt able to use perma stealth. There MUST be small timing windows for other classes to kill the TR. The TR is able to dodge so the player should be able to stay alive in this window of vulnerability. But actually there are no such windows which can be used by other players.
window of vulnerability of other classes:
GF: Guardmeter is empty
GWF: Unstoppable is over
Cleric: Out of his circles/cooldown of circles
CW: no more stamina
In all these cases these classes are vulnerable. So they have to get out of dangerous situations or they die. But not the TR...
what i could deduce is that you are a GF and you are complaining you cant beat a rogue...well, dont know if you noticed but as long as you can block and endure you are keeping that particular rogue stuck to you and not at your squishy teammates. Be grateful that a rogue chose to pick you out of your team to beat down, because you can sure last longer than a CW or another TR.
LOL!
The TR isnt imba because the time he needs to kill me gives my teammates the chance to do something?
Well, while i dont have any chance to kill the TR (except by very lucky hits by frontline surge!), im waiting for death. Then ill have to wait until respawn and ride back to the position. By killing me, the TR reduces the Power of my team because of respawn time and the time ill need to get back. 20 Seconds 4on5 because im dead. I think its a huge advantige. And before im Back, the TR killed another player.
But most of the time all players around me will die within a few seconds and ill be the last one which will die by the TR.
And if you are a good GF and the rogue is really dumb, he will waste a lot of time trying to CoS + PoB you to death (btw you know SE wont work on you if you have block up, just a hint so you can make the rogue chew your health all the way to the botton rather than take a shortcut on your 20% health remaining, thus earning more time for your team). And of course, nothing stops you from roaming around the area you think the rogue is and try to spot him (if you are fast the moment he is spotted is 5 secconds before the moment he is drolling on the floor after you finish him)
LOL
Fast movement = no block = 2k damage per dagger.
And even if im running around like a headless chicken, the TR is running faster and: He is able to dodge away. I dont have any gap closer which are working without a target. A TR is able to keep far away from me (but in CoS range)!.
i know i wont even last 5 secs if a good CW/GWF/GF manages to target me, so imo if i take 10 secs to kill you i am still much slower than at least 3 classes on this game
ROFL
At this point its clear that you are a no0b!
Good TRs are really strong even if they dont use perma stealth!
You know smokebomb? Dazing strike? impossible to catch? Use these skills and you will be able to kill everything very fast. But well... other classes might be able to dodge your attacks. Before this wave of perma stealth idiots, most TRs were very hard and high skilled TRs were awesome in splitting up the enemies team! They did just ran into the clerics circle and used smokebomb to daze nearly the entire team.
well, if you have a good cleric or a rogue running around you with PoB, or a wizard with his daily/repel on, or a gwf running around you untill he spots the rogue you will also have a chance, that is a little thing that people keep forgetting called teamwork. PvP is a 5v5 match, and if on that aspect you see yourself alone against a rogue, specially as a GF, then you deserve what is coming for you, and even so its not a bad thing for your team because you are keeping the rogue busy.
Targeting a TR in distance is hardly impossible. Most TRs are jumping around. So its much harder to focus them. Its hardly possible to hit a perma stealth TR with repel.
Maybe you are running directly to your enemy without jumping.
As a permastealth one of my main objectives is backcap, and i can't curse loud enough to express my frustration when i get to enemy back flag and a GF is sitting there to hold it. And of course, if you use ingame voip, or ts, or any voice communication device (hell even type on chat if needed) to get 1 more person from your team to back up and help incase you dont want to delay the rogue but rather survive him or even beat him its just that easy, again, teamwork.
OMG!
Just use CoS and kill him. 2k damage per dagger isnt that hard. Well you will need more time to kill the GF than a CW. Thats right. But there is no reason for calling your mates.
Btw: using Smokebomb, dazing strike and impossible to catch its possible to kill a GF much faster than as perma stealth, but you are vulnerable for very short times and some skill is required.
Again, if the rogue takes 30 secs to kill anyone, is because the cleric is not doing his job and he is still far slower than at least 3 classes we all know who instagib anything.
1) most PvP games there are no clerics.
2) all other classes who might be able to kill an enemy very fast are vulnerable. Every 1on1 between other classes than TR or cleric has a high chance for both players to die. 1on1 between perma stealth TR and any other class is different: The TR might need a few secs more time to kill the enemy, but he is nearly 100% safe!
If you want people to stay for the match end even when you're sitting on a 600-10 score and you've decided to be ***-hats and spawn-camp, you need to give them a reason. Punishing them is not the answer. That's just pouring salt-acid into an already bleeding wound.
In case that 1-2 perma stealth TRs are kicking the most important players, there wont be any teamplay because the team is waiting for respawn. Yesterday i got a really nice cleric in my team and, as usual i'd stay close to him to protect him because EVERYONE is just focusing the cleric. I saw two horses, then they vanished - oh 2 TR. Well id run around to get close to them (hopefully) to stun them, but my cleric was down after 5seconds. No chance to target them. I missed my first frontline surge (direction lookt correct, but he ran out of range) and then i had to wait 25sec for the next one. During this time i died too. No chance. They repeated this many times. A GWF came around to protect the cleric too, but he died too.
exactly the same would have happened with 2x CW, 2x GwF and maybe 2x GF
so its not the stealth that causes problems, its that you are getting outplayed, which in the end is a leanr to play issue
exactly the same would have happened with 2x CW, 2x GwF and maybe 2x GF
so its not the stealth that causes problems, its that you are getting outplayed, which in the end is a leanr to play issue
Your stupid "learn2play" two liners are annyoing.
Read my post! Each other class - except TR - have windows of vulnerability.
2 GWF at the middle node? no problem, its all about skill and tactics or a third teammate is able to help.
But 2 perma stealth TR just killed everything and we were not able to target them most of the time. You can call 5 CWs to help in clearing the middle which is hold by 2 perma stealth TR. If the CWs singularity isnt ready at all, they will die without any chance. 2 perma stealth TR are killing 5 CWs within 1 minute.
i hate rotating my camera while trying to focus something which might be somewhere around me while im getting killed.
If you want people to stay for the match end even when you're sitting on a 600-10 score and you've decided to be ***-hats and spawn-camp, you need to give them a reason. Punishing them is not the answer. That's just pouring salt-acid into an already bleeding wound.
Well, you think a lucky hit by frontline surge is a fair chance in PvP?
Frontline surge: 25sec Cooldown, missing the TR = im dead!
Hitting the TR = he is lying somewhere around, maybe he is up again before i found him. I need at least 2 criticals to kill him - 20% chance for crit - 3 encounters. statistics says: one will crit, the TR will stay allive.
If you want people to stay for the match end even when you're sitting on a 600-10 score and you've decided to be ***-hats and spawn-camp, you need to give them a reason. Punishing them is not the answer. That's just pouring salt-acid into an already bleeding wound.
In case you didn't realize this, complainers... the devs play this game, too. They know exactly how the classes work, and what each is capable of doing. Posting repeatedly using hyperbole and outright misinformation in an attempt to manipulate the devs into nerfing something is an utter waste of your time.
There is a zero point zero percent chance that stealth is going to get removed. Period. If the game vexes you so much that you feel compelled to post twenty times in a row about how some class is invincible, even when it clearly isn't, then perhaps it would behoove you to move on to a different game. No one that matters is listening to you, and certainly is not going to believe you, because they already know better.
use AOE, problem solved (and yes, you have more aoes then frontline surge)
ah wait youd actually have to adapt and understand how the game works to do that, i forgot
Well now its time for an award for you:
Ladies and gentlemenn, for writing the silliest post ever, the user "huckaseven" is getting the GOLD medal in "trolling".
Other AoEs the GF has:
Enforced Threat - well, its a aggro skill. useless in PvP. This skill deals something around 2-3k damage. More than 10sec cooldown. No stun, nothing that would help to kill a TR.
And thats all. Oh wait. there are 2 dailies which are dealing something like 2-3k damage. But wait, ill have to use dailies to have a small chance vs. a TR?! Terrifying impact has the same chance to hit/miss the TR as frontline surge. At first its hard to detect where the TR is and then the TR is able to stay out of range of frontline surge and terrifying impact (while he is in CoS-Range!) and additionally (well its still not enough!) the TR is able to dodge this skill.
WOW.
You such a progamer. If you would play a GF in PvP you would properly use Enforced Threat and then you would cry about the aggro system because the TR is not attacking you!
If you want people to stay for the match end even when you're sitting on a 600-10 score and you've decided to be ***-hats and spawn-camp, you need to give them a reason. Punishing them is not the answer. That's just pouring salt-acid into an already bleeding wound.
Enforced Threat - well, its a aggro skill. useless in PvP. This skill deals something around 2-3k damage. More than 10sec cooldown. No stun, nothing that would help to kill a TR.
see, you dont understand how the game works, so please stop your complaining unless you get a grasp of what youre complaining about
and since it was posted numerous times in this thread now, i wont point it out, youll have to find it yourself..i know, youre not good at that, but give it a try
Comments
Lol, you're in for a rude awakening. The premise alone that TR's using this build have and still can solo end game boss content is reason enough for them to look into "fixing" the issue. The usage in pvp garners the most attention and just that much more reasoning. Some sort of change is inevitable and you can live in your world of denial if it pleases you, but it is coming.. jus fyi
Hey if it makes you feel better, by all means keep wishing for that next nerf. I will say this: permastealth (INT-based) rogues are not so great in PVE, if you go to the thieves den and look for yourself you will see "PVP only" plastered all over the thread. It is a niche build with several key weaknesses that many other players have discovered already.
PVE-wise, permastealth is not going to go away without getting rid of gloaming cut, the feats for it, bait and switch, shadow strike, the feats for prolonging stealth, the feats for adding stealth from dodging, lurker's assault, the tenacious concealment class feature, recharge bonuses from INT, recovery affecting CDs... in other words, everything that makes the class unique and not just another melee. As I stated before, we are talking about a rework of the entire class.
I suppose that's possible... but is it likely? Tough call, man.
This is a sane and adult way to end this. Thank you. I will agree with you in the same fashion, because you are right... there is no point to make here. The devs play these classes and run their own numbers... they know what they intended to make, and our forum input has little to do with anything at all.
Glad to see that you are lvling a rogue yourself, I hope you are having fun with it.
Dev's do play these classes and run their own numbers but they don't always run every possible scenario with the numbers. We've seen how well they've done with the numerous exploits that have happened during open beta and that probably still continue and/or being found here after release. Not to mention buffs made to GWF were not properly tested. Unless you think GWF's ability to roll over people in a 3v1 is working as intended.
It's my 3rd rogue, so I'm no stranger to its lawl capabilities.. and I'm sure I'll find the cheesy lawlz of perma stealth possibly even more enjoyable. Thanks tho! :cool:
Gwfs are easy. Ppl just suck. 2 encounter cycles from any of my 60s will burn em.
Pro tip: Dodge/block encounters. Kite unstoppable. GG.
However, being perma stealthed, and Immune to everything while your in it as totally differant.
Cool, you are stealthed. But why immune?
Any rogue in any game i've played in the past, which is many. A rogue in stealth is no longer stealthed when taking damage.
So, doing AoE dmg in the vacinity of the rogue, should make him no longer stealthed, and take damage.
Its been the go to mechanic of any class in any mmo fighting a stealthed rogue.
Lay down an AoE, or do aoe's to break his stealth. For the life of me I dont understand why they made rogues immune to everything while stealthed.
Make rogues take damage if they are in the vacinity of an AoE, and come out of stealth, even if for just a second. Problem fixed
What you are describing here is the gestalt of Lurker's Assault, Impossible to Catch, and stealth being activated all at once. This involves popping a daily and an encounter that only lasts for 5 secs with a long CD. 5 seconds is not permanent, nor does a rogue have massive amounts of dailys to use all the time. If you use Impossible to Catch from stealth WITHOUT also popping lurkers beforehand, it breaks you out of stealth and empties your bar.
Just FYI... this is not something that a rogue can do constantly or even much at all.
Let's not be nasty, bro... there's no call for that. If somebody doesn't know the inner mechanics of the TR class and makes some bad assumptions, that doesn't mean they are dumb. Hasty, yes... but not dumb.
in the way he wrote it: jep, dumb is correct
If anyone took the time to read the majority of your posts. They undoubtedly would reach the same conclusion about you.
Lets try this:
Are we rogues a class with loads of recovery/defense to soak up damage or huge amounts of hp to our disposal? No? Right, so it is easy to assume that once we are spotted we will be squashed like bugs by any heavy hitters, such as gwf/GF/CW/Another rogues.
Also, rogues who choose this build must give up their nuking power in order to survive. Just look our shortcut bar
at will 1 - gleaming cut/duelist flurry (only if you know how to use without fail)/sly flourish, and of course, all of those require you to get into the field of vision of your target.
at will 2 - CoS, that can be dodged and has a short range, to a point where a simple roll/telport/dash to the direction of the knifes = you having to get away to not be spotted, and deppending on enemy positioning you may scape 1 person to fall into the lap of his friends. And of course, if you cant kill your target with your initial pack of 12 knifes, its gonna be a pain chasing that enemy away.
encounter 1 - shadow strike, needless to say that the biggest use is a short daze and stealth refil, damage is as good as nothing and the animation time+range make it easy for you to miscalculate and end up out of stealth (say noone is nearby for you to hit or the target you were planning to hit just got our of reach in the nick of time, its bye bye stealth for you)
encounter 2 -B&S, again, only use is refil stealth, and if someone is dumb enough to attack it, refill AP.
encounter 3 - here is usually where we would put a nuke, or something usefull from stealth, but if we aim perma stealth it will be most likelly be itc or path of blades (to be cast prior to stealth to poke out another stealth rogues, but that will also reveal our position to some point since when someone gets poked he will assume a perma is passing by). Some may take impact shot to extra ranged damage, but that will pop us out of stealth and give clear target to heavy hitters, unless our team has someone that can save us from being squashed. Some may take smoke bomb but that wont save us from ranged attackers (other permas, CWs and DCs) that decide to nail us from outside the smoke
dailies i dont need to mention, because considering we are the slowest on ap generation we will be lucky if we get 4 dailies up in 1 match so we most of the time keep them on our pockets as a last resort to guarantee a kill.
People keep saying "perma stealth requires no skill", or "anyone can do it", or " easy build herp derp" and the people that say those stuff leave an obvious "i am full of <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>" mark right in their foreheads. Dont believe those noobs guys, they obviously never played a permastealth rogue on arena and are basing their comments on videos of good players rolling the build and making it seem easier than it really is.
This build requires playing skills on everything, not a single miscalculation is forgiven, be it bad timing to keep the rotation, movement flaws, bad positioning, bad judgement on when to use a nuke/damage dealer on the arena or even a repel/aoe daily from enemy CWs/DCs towards your allies that you didnt see coming and caught you as bonus effect for being too close at the time. Any of the flaws above can get us out of stealth and pretty much give a free kill to the closest enemy unless you can react fast to it and try to fix what was messed up while being beaten.
Good permas will be challenging and will seem very OP, but so will good players on any class.
EDIT: had to add this
if you can move, deppending on your move speed you can still avoid some damage and force the rogue to roll/chase after you which consumes time he could be at willing/encountering your butt, and if your team isnt utter <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> they can CC the rogue because the daze effect comes form encounters that blow off the stealth, almost making a shiny arrow with "kill me" written on it to appear over its head.
But wait, what does the knock downs of the GF/GWFs do to us? Or stuns? or freeze/levitaton from cws? Yep, totally unbalanced the daze effect.....kids these days
Less (lesser then TRs) CWs are there because they are slain instantly by TRs and GWFs.
The number of GWFs in PvP increased since last patch extremely, before the "balancing patch", the GWF was more rare then GFs in PvP.
Well in case that im not on rank#1 in PvP its allways a TR with 20+ kills and 1-2 deaths. Doesnt look like kill stealing. Looks like: TR is the only class which cant be targeted (=killed) if its a perma stealth bob.
Well, they move faster (class skill), they are invisible (class skill), they can dodge roll(class skill) to increase the distance if im getting closer.
Its nothing about beeing "smarter", its just abusing skills which arent balanced. As a GF you cant get in range for frontline surge if the TR isnt an idiot. And even if you are in range: you must know the TRs position exactly! And if the GF got the positiojn of the TR and is in range, the TR is able to dodge frontline surge. Now the GF has to wait 25seconds for the next try.
Uhm yea, its all about "beein smart" lol... stfu stupid bob!
Do we play the same game?!
Other classes cant kill other players within 10 seconds while their opponents cant see and target them!
other classes got perma stealth?
Each CW which is targeting a single enemy can be killed easily by the teammate of his target. I can protect each cleric from beeing killed by a CW because i charge them instantly and they have to stop attacking or they die! But TR? He is just running around stealthed and continues his attacks.
Lets try to compare:
Perma stealth is much stronger than an unlimited(!!) guardmeter! Because the GF has disadvantiges while raising his shield: he is slow and cant use encounters while shield is up.
I like the stupid "l2p-statements" of TRs which are afraid of beeing nerfed because they did never learn anything about tactics, teamplay, dodging, ... pre patch you did onehit everything and now you are perma stealth.
Well i would be afraid of a nerf too if i would be such a lowskilled player.
LOL
A GWF cant kill a perma stealth TR. No chance. Even GWF and GF using 7 greater Tenebrous have no chance vs a perma stealth TR. Maybe they kill the entire team but not the perma stealth bob. And a perma stealth TR is killing a player every 30secs. Sounds fair :X
Well all in all your statements sounds like this:
1) you are unable to keep the GF and GWF away from you
2) you are unable to dodge
3) your GS 5000 TR need hours to kill someone while perma stealthed.
Well, most (something around 99%) other perma stealth TRs are able to dodge and to stay in distance to GWF/GF. And they are able to kill GF/GWF just by using 15-20 daggers = something around 15-25 seconds.
And here is the reason:
Fine, let's not upset the troll's feelings and simply call it deliberate ignorant.
There is tons of information in this thread, buried under persistent misconception and people all to happy prolonging that to get a kick on the forum. Again kudo's to the folks who take time to actually try and help out, but there is no remedy against deliberate ignorance.
Don't argue with them, they'll only drag you down to their level and beat you with years of experience.
LOL, fair enough. Although in my defense, there were a couple of folks posting that weren't trolls.
1 word bro, skills. Good clerics and good GFs make all the difference in pvp, i know because the good ones give me hell and can turn the tide of fight just as easily as any perma stealth, the only determining factor is what is between the chair and the keyboard. The reason you see less is because they very likelly get there, play wrong, get stomped and quit, or have the misfortune of getting hit by the exact class they cant compete against and get frustrated, but i bet my 2 cents that the real reason is: they think of entering pvp to faceroll solo game and reach top score, and forget that pvp is a team game, so it doesnt matter if they dont faceroll as long as they are an asset that can lead the team to victory, unfortunatelly that view isnt as popular as "i will enter pvp and score the highest on kills trololol" .
Good players on those specific classes put up an awessome performance on teamfights
I am pretty sure we are playing different games, i never entered a pvp match that had no CWs, in fact i find them more often than rogues.
Yep, and see what they are in pvp now, gl trying to stand face to face with that...and asking for nerfs for rogues....gotta be kidding (not asking for nerfs for gwf btw)
cant be targeted = cant be killed? jesus christ you are dense. AoE son, all classes have it and some have enough area of effect to nail down a rogue with ease because if you didnt notice we lose stealth time everytime we take damage (stealth takes quite some time to drop, but when you get hit it just gets sucked out almost instantly). Just because you dont know how to use them doesnt mean everybody will wait for rogues to appear to do something. Any player who isnt braindead will see where the knifes are coming, close the gap and bust an aoe to try to shorten the stealth, also the time the rogue will dodge to avoid you closing in, he isnt attacking, and wasting stealth time while at it, just put pressure and you will force him to make a wrong move, which is deadly for that class.
well, we arent the rock rogues, we are trickster rogues, you want us to stand still in stealth until you bump into us?
what i could deduce is that you are a GF and you are complaining you cant beat a rogue...well, dont know if you noticed but as long as you can block and endure you are keeping that particular rogue stuck to you and not at your squishy teammates. Be grateful that a rogue chose to pick you out of your team to beat down, because you can sure last longer than a CW or another TR. And if you are a good GF and the rogue is really dumb, he will waste a lot of time trying to CoS + PoB you to death (btw you know SE wont work on you if you have block up, just a hint so you can make the rogue chew your health all the way to the botton rather than take a shortcut on your 20% health remaining, thus earning more time for your team). And of course, nothing stops you from roaming around the area you think the rogue is and try to spot him (if you are fast the moment he is spotted is 5 secconds before the moment he is drolling on the floor after you finish him)
i know i wont even last 5 secs if a good CW/GWF/GF manages to target me, so imo if i take 10 secs to kill you i am still much slower than at least 3 classes on this game
well, if you have a good cleric or a rogue running around you with PoB, or a wizard with his daily/repel on, or a gwf running around you untill he spots the rogue you will also have a chance, that is a little thing that people keep forgetting called teamwork. PvP is a 5v5 match, and if on that aspect you see yourself alone against a rogue, specially as a GF, then you deserve what is coming for you, and even so its not a bad thing for your team because you are keeping the rogue busy.
As a permastealth one of my main objectives is backcap, and i can't curse loud enough to express my frustration when i get to enemy back flag and a GF is sitting there to hold it. And of course, if you use ingame voip, or ts, or any voice communication device (hell even type on chat if needed) to get 1 more person from your team to back up and help incase you dont want to delay the rogue but rather survive him or even beat him its just that easy, again, teamwork.
and will take eternity to die, lets reiforce that a bit more until it finally sinks in
read my previous post above yours on the part concering the skill required to use permastealth, even try to run one if you dont believe, you will see how much skill it takes
Also, i am not afraid of being nerfed, if my class really was unbalanced to a point only a nerf could solve i would say so, however i dont want the nerfbat hitting classes just because players are too unskilled to deal with them. When the problem isnt on the class but on who is getting facerolled by it, nerf isnt a viable solution, like it or not it is a l2p case here, no more to add.
if they can kill the entire enemy team and only the permastealth is left standing i believe they are on the winning side, because 1 player cant do anything against 2 players who steamrolled 90% of his team, the best he can do is to stay alive and try to backcap, and if you read my post this far you will see it is easy to frustrate that being a gwf or gf, specially because the enemy rogue needs to be in a certain area to dispute the flag, and if he is there, you have an overall knowledge of his position, you just need to narrow it down a bit more, dont be lazy.
Again, if the rogue takes 30 secs to kill anyone, is because the cleric is not doing his job and he is still far slower than at least 3 classes we all know who instagib anything.
then the gwf/gf getting those knifes suck and have no healers on their team, also if you can hold a rogue 15-25 secs on you again, you are gaining precious time for your team, never understimate holding down a rogue for that amount of time (but i doubt any decent gwf/gf lasts only that much, unless they are way undergeared)
thats all "bob"
Well on my GF I have around 40%DR, so it's a similar dynamic with block to soak up the damage. Just stay on the tower, and it will take years before they force you to run. Stack on regen if you feel like staying there forever...really it's the same dynamic. If they have their daily up, there's a good chance you'll die, but that happens in a normal TR build anyways. In objective play, staying on the tower == win.
I honestly get 2x more kills with my GF due to their high sustainable burst and gap closers, I just die a few times more from the lack of escape. Melee classes are just strong now in this game, as they well should be.
Also, I'm not saying permastealth shouldn't be adjusted for the health of the game, I'm just saying there are certainly counters where people have been saying there weren't.
60 GF(14.5GS) Cersei
60 CW(12.4GS) Shadis
60 TR(12.2GS) Dijkstra
60 GWF(12.2GS) Winnowill
45 DC(WIP) Daenerys
thanks for that post, im pretty sure i couldnt have wrote that in such a calm way
and @masu:
ah no, its not worth risking a ban just for some subject like you
for all the leavers.
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
In case that 1-2 perma stealth TRs are kicking the most important players, there wont be any teamplay because the team is waiting for respawn. Yesterday i got a really nice cleric in my team and, as usual i'd stay close to him to protect him because EVERYONE is just focusing the cleric. I saw two horses, then they vanished - oh 2 TR. Well id run around to get close to them (hopefully) to stun them, but my cleric was down after 5seconds. No chance to target them. I missed my first frontline surge (direction lookt correct, but he ran out of range) and then i had to wait 25sec for the next one. During this time i died too. No chance. They repeated this many times. A GWF came around to protect the cleric too, but he died too.
Just 2 TRs perma stealth at the middle node and my entire team had no chance to get them. A CW tried singularity, well we got them by singularity. It was lucky. But they came back after 15 seconds and they killed us again. Next singularity did not help, the dodged out of range.
Al other AoEs by CW damaged the TRs slightly, but they did not become visible, they got just 4k damage and continued killing us. The other 3 players of the enemies team tried to get our #1 node. If we gave up the middle the TR would start spawn camping or would help to conquer #1!
No chance at all. it was just "waiting until respawn". Nothing else.
Well maybe you thought that the big guy with his two handed sword is just a great CW :x
There are more CWs than GWF,GF or clerics, but a PvP without at least 4 TR is very rare for me. Sometimes its just 4TR+4CW + 2 random classes. Its annyoing. Well the CWs are balanced now. Its impossible to kill a good CW as GF, but im able to prevent them from killing my team, i can push them back. If they wont go back to kite me, they will die.
Well, just dodge (or block) the GWFs main damage skills and kill him. While he is unstoppable: run away/around. If unstoppable is over: Kill him. GF vs GWF is quite fair (well in case that both players dont use tenebrous!).
All classes have AoE stuns? Well, if i NEED a daily skill to prevent a TR from using his at will skills, its looking quite unfair. Most classes are able to damage a TR by using AoEs but damaging them is not enough. They stay stealthed and they continue in killing their enemys.
All i want is that the TR isnt able to use perma stealth. There MUST be small timing windows for other classes to kill the TR. The TR is able to dodge so the player should be able to stay alive in this window of vulnerability. But actually there are no such windows which can be used by other players.
window of vulnerability of other classes:
GF: Guardmeter is empty
GWF: Unstoppable is over
Cleric: Out of his circles/cooldown of circles
CW: no more stamina
In all these cases these classes are vulnerable. So they have to get out of dangerous situations or they die. But not the TR...
LOL!
The TR isnt imba because the time he needs to kill me gives my teammates the chance to do something?
Well, while i dont have any chance to kill the TR (except by very lucky hits by frontline surge!), im waiting for death. Then ill have to wait until respawn and ride back to the position. By killing me, the TR reduces the Power of my team because of respawn time and the time ill need to get back. 20 Seconds 4on5 because im dead. I think its a huge advantige. And before im Back, the TR killed another player.
But most of the time all players around me will die within a few seconds and ill be the last one which will die by the TR.
LOL
Fast movement = no block = 2k damage per dagger.
And even if im running around like a headless chicken, the TR is running faster and: He is able to dodge away. I dont have any gap closer which are working without a target. A TR is able to keep far away from me (but in CoS range)!.
ROFL
At this point its clear that you are a no0b!
Good TRs are really strong even if they dont use perma stealth!
You know smokebomb? Dazing strike? impossible to catch? Use these skills and you will be able to kill everything very fast. But well... other classes might be able to dodge your attacks. Before this wave of perma stealth idiots, most TRs were very hard and high skilled TRs were awesome in splitting up the enemies team! They did just ran into the clerics circle and used smokebomb to daze nearly the entire team.
Targeting a TR in distance is hardly impossible. Most TRs are jumping around. So its much harder to focus them. Its hardly possible to hit a perma stealth TR with repel.
Maybe you are running directly to your enemy without jumping.
OMG!
Just use CoS and kill him. 2k damage per dagger isnt that hard. Well you will need more time to kill the GF than a CW. Thats right. But there is no reason for calling your mates.
Btw: using Smokebomb, dazing strike and impossible to catch its possible to kill a GF much faster than as perma stealth, but you are vulnerable for very short times and some skill is required.
1) most PvP games there are no clerics.
2) all other classes who might be able to kill an enemy very fast are vulnerable. Every 1on1 between other classes than TR or cleric has a high chance for both players to die. 1on1 between perma stealth TR and any other class is different: The TR might need a few secs more time to kill the enemy, but he is nearly 100% safe!
And here is the reason:
so its not the stealth that causes problems, its that you are getting outplayed, which in the end is a leanr to play issue
Your stupid "learn2play" two liners are annyoing.
Read my post! Each other class - except TR - have windows of vulnerability.
2 GWF at the middle node? no problem, its all about skill and tactics or a third teammate is able to help.
But 2 perma stealth TR just killed everything and we were not able to target them most of the time. You can call 5 CWs to help in clearing the middle which is hold by 2 perma stealth TR. If the CWs singularity isnt ready at all, they will die without any chance. 2 perma stealth TR are killing 5 CWs within 1 minute.
i hate rotating my camera while trying to focus something which might be somewhere around me while im getting killed.
And here is the reason:
and while they might be annyoing, they are the truth
youre endless whining based on misinformation is annyoing too, yet you dont stop doing it
Frontline surge: 25sec Cooldown, missing the TR = im dead!
Hitting the TR = he is lying somewhere around, maybe he is up again before i found him. I need at least 2 criticals to kill him - 20% chance for crit - 3 encounters. statistics says: one will crit, the TR will stay allive.
Your intellect is overwhelming.
..really!
And here is the reason:
ah wait youd actually have to adapt and understand how the game works to do that, i forgot
In case you didn't realize this, complainers... the devs play this game, too. They know exactly how the classes work, and what each is capable of doing. Posting repeatedly using hyperbole and outright misinformation in an attempt to manipulate the devs into nerfing something is an utter waste of your time.
There is a zero point zero percent chance that stealth is going to get removed. Period. If the game vexes you so much that you feel compelled to post twenty times in a row about how some class is invincible, even when it clearly isn't, then perhaps it would behoove you to move on to a different game. No one that matters is listening to you, and certainly is not going to believe you, because they already know better.
Well now its time for an award for you:
Ladies and gentlemenn, for writing the silliest post ever, the user "huckaseven" is getting the GOLD medal in "trolling".
Other AoEs the GF has:
Enforced Threat - well, its a aggro skill. useless in PvP. This skill deals something around 2-3k damage. More than 10sec cooldown. No stun, nothing that would help to kill a TR.
And thats all. Oh wait. there are 2 dailies which are dealing something like 2-3k damage. But wait, ill have to use dailies to have a small chance vs. a TR?! Terrifying impact has the same chance to hit/miss the TR as frontline surge. At first its hard to detect where the TR is and then the TR is able to stay out of range of frontline surge and terrifying impact (while he is in CoS-Range!) and additionally (well its still not enough!) the TR is able to dodge this skill.
WOW.
You such a progamer. If you would play a GF in PvP you would properly use Enforced Threat and then you would cry about the aggro system because the TR is not attacking you!
And here is the reason:
see, you dont understand how the game works, so please stop your complaining unless you get a grasp of what youre complaining about
and since it was posted numerous times in this thread now, i wont point it out, youll have to find it yourself..i know, youre not good at that, but give it a try