Actually every mmo i played ( and there were quite a few of them) healer class was able to survive for quite a long time vs 1 damage dealer class. At the current state of balance good lvl 50 rogue could gank a decent lvl 60 cleric in t1. Just saying
Actually every mmo i played ( and there were quite a few of them) healer class was able to survive for quite a long time vs 1 damage dealer class. At the current state of balance good lvl 50 rogue could gank a decent lvl 60 cleric in t1. Just saying
Good point.
Also every other classes class features are buffs not debuffs.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
0
kasthilMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 2Arc User
edited June 2013
I guess I really screwed the pooch then... I went half-elf for the +bonus to cash racial. Blast those mechanics that allow us to earn gold!
Hey everybody, thanks for your feedback on Righteousness! We're looking into it. cheers!
So, you're a month and a half late responding to this, but thanks, I guess. Maybe one day, if I'm really bored, I'll try out your game again, see if you guys can get some semblance of balance going on.
So, you're a month and a half late responding to this, but thanks, I guess. Maybe one day, if I'm really bored, I'll try out your game again, see if you guys can get some semblance of balance going on.
It's a lil disheartening to see yet another cleric leave the game that contributed so much to helping others with information. The time you and others spent testing and then subsequently posting your findings here is much appreciated. Cryptic ruined the cleric. They made it into a class that has sub par healing,buffing,debuffing and abysmal DPS. The only reasons at all to have one in a group is still......astral shield and linked spirit till they fix it, and they WILL fix it. Rogues DPS well, tanks now can tank well, CW's are still awesome and GWF's specced properly bring much to a group. We clerics can not come close to any of the other classes when it comes to filling our role. I am most likely right behind you and unspecified in heading out the door of this game. Sad...
muirwenMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 4Arc User
edited June 2013
I am sorry to say that it is good to hear that more and more clerics are leaving this game. And to be honest, when after 31 pages of comments someone of PWE finally takes the time to come down from his throne to make a statement, what he finally had to say to us before buggering off again is nothing less than an insult to this part of the gaming community. I agree with the previous poster that it indeed is sad that well established clerics who has done so much over the last months had to decide to call it quits like many more of us, me included, did. But it just shows that people are really really fed up with this corporate attitude. I am sorry as hell I put almost $200 in to support this game. Obviously the high hopes I had for this game and my trust in PW and Cryptic have been completely and utterly misplaced, but I have learned my lesson. These will have been the last dollars ever to be paid by me to this company.
This will be my last post, but I liked the game so much at the beginning I decided to spend the time to say my 2 copper pieces about what I think about the changes that were made. I have currently uninstalled, beaten all end content and was was full Miracle Healer's "from drop's not the auction house". I did your dungeons the right way, didn't skip trash, healed solo, and didn't exploit bosses, and I loved every minute of it.
Some bugs needed to be fixed with the class, and a lot of bugs still exist as passive nerfs to the class overall. A good example is the trait that on healing an ally they are granted a buff that negates 80% of combat advantage damage. That only works with healing word.
This isn't a rage on bugs; because, beside these shortcomings the cleric was playable and still a lot of fun, where you went wrong is by listening to the members of the player base that were trying to play your cleric like a cleric in other games, and not like the cleric you created that I loved. The only issue with a clerics agro was a cleric trying to run away from the agro, now the poor control wizard and rogue are doomed. It was a good feeling thinking to myself well I have all this chain armor for a reason! As I dived into a pack of mobs side by side with the Guardian dropping my Astral Shield for us both, building my action points for Devine Armor to give myself 15% more defense and 20% more health on top of my 25k hps and massive armor defense %. The wizard and great weapon fighter having their way with them as they stayed focused on me and the tank.
While the rest of the group is fighting the hordes that follow this evil abomination the rogue slips off to the shadows to ambush the boss while his army is distracted by the hardend team of adventurers.
^^^ That was just the most awesome healer I have played in any game so far.
Now its nerfed, no more agro. I hated the fact that Astral shield stacked, and couldn't wait for the day it was fixed so that 2 clerics in a party would be obviously worse than taking another dps class or a tank, even though I always played with a premade one of each class group, the pick up groups were horrible flavor of the month exploit groups, I did manage to meet a few good players from time to time who didn't try in one way to cheat. The duration nerf was a bad move for the class; because, now its even more viable to bring two clerics, and it's not an exploit.
I liked the fact that I healed the party passively, and the more asskickin I did the better off the group was. I did not want to be a stand in the back heal bot. I thought that the T2 ice gaint end boss with the 30 golem adds was a challenge as I controlled the golems + the rest of the melee adds, the group killing archers, and me still hitting them with healing word in divine mode, tossing Astral Shield at the bosses feet for the rogue, and building action points with the army chasing me with sunburst and hitting everyone with divine armor.
I can't say I will be back; because, history of MMO's tells me you will continue to listen to the troll bads on your forums and ruin your own game designs.
0
nosepickerauMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 3Arc User
edited June 2013
If you guys are quitting can I have your stuff
Edit: Righteousness sucks, please for the love of god remove it or at least reduce the crippling impact it has. It's nearly impossible to do any higher level content without chewing potions and desperately dumping all the healing/regen encounters I can - despite the fact that I am a healer!
Just posting here to show my support for removing righteousness for the many reasons stated in this thread.
"You can easily judge the character of a man by how he treats those who can do nothing for him."
"Every saint has a past and every sinner has a future."
"Education is an admirable thing, but it is well to remember from time to time that nothing that is worth knowing can be taught."
"Life is too important to be taken seriously.":)
righteusness doesnt suck ... your party shall keep watch over you as you watch over them.
if you got to use too many potions in your group then your mates and probably you are doing something wrong ...
there is a clear route in the design.
the only thing that is a bit weird is that righteusness has no beneficial effect in addition to the understandable debuff because it looks like its supposed to be a feature.
righteusness doesnt suck ... your party shall keep watch over you as you watch over them.
if you got to use too many potions in your group then your mates and probably you are doing something wrong ...
there is a clear route in the design.
the only thing that is a bit weird is that righteusness has no beneficial effect in addition to the understandable debuff because it looks like its supposed to be a feature.
You are uninformed and blissfully ignorant as to why the righteousness debuff was put in.
Lemme splain....no..splain will take to long..lemme sum up.
Open beta 3- The healing class (cleric) wasn't using as many healing potions as the other other non healing classes. I know crazy
right?
Open beta4 and forward- Righteousness -40% to self healing on the healing class so it uses MORE healing potions then any other class...again..I know..crazy right?
It's the single most ridiculous thing about the class among many many ridiculous things...It's laughable really.
Righteousness Mechanic: This power will now correctly affect potion use.
0
magsondareMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
While I agree that Righteousness sucks, I found that when solo on my DC, I generally only needed to use potions vs the solo-instance end bosses, and a lot of times not even then. Daunting Light 1-shots trash swarms, so they weren't a problem, and if it didn't quite kill them all off then CoBL would. CoBL would also keep nearly any bigger mob occupied enough to get some decent kiting distance if necessary, and FF still heals quite well even with the reduction. As a result, I still wasn't using potions, so PWE's "clerics didn't need potions and thus had too much money" is still a ridiculous fail.
I was soloing the instances on my CW using the Ioun Stone (no healer companion) and not needing potions either. Something in the name. . . .con.... con-something.... oh right. *Control* Wizard. Tabbed Chill strike kills swarms, control powers keep the other mobs locked down permanently. Didn't take many hits. Never needed much in the way of potions.
My TR has a high-stealth (not perma, but high) build that in pve also resulted in nearly never getting hit either. Potion use was occasional for when I'd mess up or if there were several big mobs I couldn't quite finish off before the stealth ran out, but even then... kite around a few seconds, refill the stealth bar with Shadow Strike and back in stealth with the fight getting easier as you whittle down the biggies. I probably used more potions on this toon after dropping the cleric companion in the mid-40's, but even there... maybe 2-3 per instance, but I'd pick up 10+ on the run so still come out ahead.
GF when not in dungeons can perma-hide behind their shield if they want to avoid damage. Boring play style, but again... no potion use. Still only in the 30's, so the cleric companion is more than sufficient. No potion use.
My GWF is still low enough that I sometime use potions on her if I don't feel like waiting out the 30s cooldown on my companion's heal, but that should be changing soon. And until then I've got many size 99 stacks of potions from my other characters that they "passed down" because they didn't need them.
I don't recall ever buying a potion off the vendor before level 60, tbh, and even now I just use them during dungeon runs, and generally don't need all that many, so the cost is pretty minimal.
So... there's my anecdotal evidence that potion use is irrelevant to any class, and is therefore only harmful to clerics on dungeon runs, and thus must go.
Oh...and Cryptic devs....FYI....I'm not buying your health stones or raise dead scrolls from the cash shop no matter how much you nerf me as a cleric. I will how ever take my extra cash to other games that have GOOD support classes and buy cosmetics,mounts and a new hairstyle each week. I girl needs a new do every now and again right?
Toodles.
While I agree that Righteousness sucks, I found that when solo on my DC, I generally only needed to use potions vs the solo-instance end bosses, and a lot of times not even then. Daunting Light 1-shots trash swarms, so they weren't a problem, and if it didn't quite kill them all off then CoBL would. CoBL would also keep nearly any bigger mob occupied enough to get some decent kiting distance if necessary, and FF still heals quite well even with the reduction. As a result, I still wasn't using potions, so PWE's "clerics didn't need potions and thus had too much money" is still a ridiculous fail.
This has been my experience as well, Righteousness didn't matter much to me until level cap.
0
muirwenMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 4Arc User
Oh...and Cryptic devs....FYI....I'm not buying your health stones or raise dead scrolls from the cash shop no matter how much you nerf me as a cleric. I will how ever take my extra cash to other games that have GOOD support classes and buy cosmetics,mounts and a new hairstyle each week. I girl needs a new do every now and again right?
Toodles.
Devs think clerics make too much money from not buying pots what planet are the devs living on look at CW i have one i spent 40 lvls collecting potions never got hit once i have 200+ healing potions.
My cleric in 40's always run's out of healing potions most times when im solo in quest dungeon i will die because i can't heal enough and have no dps where is the balance???.
I see why most players quit clerics and take up CW there is a real lack of healers in the game.
0
sylvermarkeMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
I rarely post in the PWE forums, but I just had to take this opportunity to let the devs and company managers know my thoughts.
I started playing this game because I enjoyed playing DC in this game. Even with all the bugs/exploits in PvP, I still managed to enjoy the fighting style that DCs had. Now, after the patch which dramatically changed the class, I stopped playing my cleric. The whole reason I had enjoyed this game in beta was janked out from under me like a carpet.
This idiotic debuff plus the AS nerf is arguably one of the stupidest design decisions I've ever seen in an MMO. Don't even remind me that this is supposed to be D&D. Then there's the argument that DCs will have too much gold - which is relatively worthless in this game (AD & keys is where it's at).
DCs cant even PvP anymore - it's like bees on honey when a DC logs into Domination - dead in 2 hits or 2 secs, whatever. =/
Honestly, someone needs to organize a DC strike! I know I quit DC... time to go play another class, maybe try Rift for free - at least there's a decent healer class in that game that will tide me over until ESO comes (and everyone abandons this game).
I am sure this was already mentioned, but anyway: I noticed, that every class has 1-2 special mechanics (e.g. CWs with Arcane Mastery and Chill) that benefit their gameplay.
DCs have a malus. I talked alot about this to befriended gamers, who didnt know anything about Clerics and always got the same reactions, laughter, cause it is just ridiculous.
I should be able to outheal the damage of any class, when I spec into healing, as long as my opponent just facerolls his at wills at me not even bothering to use any crowd control (e.g. Cloud of Steel - yes I know, that build takes a lot more then just facerolling, but still). That is for pvp, If I play pvp I just don't want to respecc to be another glasscanon. I want to heal, that is what i like and did in every game so far. The beauty about healing in pvp is simply: "first hit wins" doesnt occur anymore once there is a healer somewhere. And at the moment I am way more successful using damagepowers, while remaining my healerspec.
Speaking of pve: thank you for the threat changes! Honestly, no sarcasm intended. At least I dont have to kite around that much. Was kind of fun in the beginning but really stopped me from even joining groups at some point. Still: I can heal up other classes just fine (as long as they dont constantly run away from my blue circles when I have no HWs left anymore. But the second I have to fight off some adds I am toast in seconds. Those moments are absolutely hectical.
Change that mechanic. Really. Maybe you have to make a complete overhaul of this class, but just do something, it feels wrong as it stands.
Righteousness has to go. I gave up on healing a long time ago.
Usually at the end of a dungeon run a rogue will have at least 50% of my healing done. How they do this I don't know, maybe lifesteal.
In fact I'm even considering dropping Repurpose Soul.
Right now I'm playing with a Virtuous build which is fun, if you get heals from me it's because of PoD on a mob that doesn't die, Guardian of the Faith if group health is low(normally it's Divine Armour), my companion has healed you(she's the real healer) or a Sun Blast if you happen to be in range. I don't use Astral Seal, Healing Word or any of that other garbage.....I'll let you in on a little secret, nobody even knows or cares. So long as there is a Cleric in the party they think they have got the heals handled and will happily chug on Health Pots all the way through. :P
In fact you could say you need a Cleric in a group, not becauce they can heal you but because the mitigation buffs they offer allow you to get more out of your health potions.
Righteousness has to go. I gave up on healing a long time ago.
Usually at the end of a dungeon run a rogue will have at least 50% of my healing done. How they do this I don't know, maybe lifesteal.
In fact I'm even considering dropping Repurpose Soul.
Rogue with a cleric pet? Pretty sure cleric pet heals count for 'healing done', and 30% of a 20k healthbar every 30 secs over a twenty minute dungeon (massive handwavy generalisations here) = 240k, then add all the lifesteal/bleed stuff on that.
Also, potion use counts. It all adds up.
I usually find (as a healbot) the healtable at the end looks something like "everyone else: 500-800k heals, me: 2-5 million" (depending on how OMG MUST STAND IN RED they were) So yeah, 50% can happen.
Don't discount how much damage you're preventing, either. If you run foresight+benefit of foresight you're stopping almost 11% of the damage even happening, but no table will show you that.
Don't discount how much damage you're preventing, either. If you run foresight+benefit of foresight you're stopping almost 11% of the damage even happening, but no table will show you that.
So far I haven't done any dungeons with foresight and there is no way to feat it with my Virtuous build which is a shame but I've finally found enough spare points to unlock it 3/3 so I'll get to try it out on the next dungeon run.
Hehe, it is true with mitigation buffs/debuffs nothing shows up on the stats panel, with feated Brand of the Sun, Daunting Light, Prophecy of Doom and Divine Armour I don't really need to heal and everybody else's damage goes through the roof.
The one that still has me puzzled is Prophecy of Doom, I've seen it do some really good heals but in boss fights(when I want to see it the most) I'm always too preoccupied to watch how much it heals for. It is a great "one spell fits all" kind of sucker that one since if you are mowing through trash and not getting the heals from PoD then you probably didn't need them anyway but if it's expiring on a tough mob then the heal should be substantial.
It is a shame that we need to contend with Righteousness because it directly negates the value of Power and Crit for self healing and a dead healer won't heal anybody so better off just stacking Defence/Deflect/Regeneration and go with % of Max Health heals.....Can anyone say...BORING!!!! I want to launch insane holy fury onto the enemy and have the pleasant side effect of healing myself and team mates while doing it. Mitigation is really the only way this is possible now.
If they get the mechanics right I should be able to max out Power and feat Healer's Lore, partnering it up with Terrifying Insight, Rising Hope, Repurpose Soul and Cycle of Change so that to boost healing teammates I do so by boosting my own personal damage. The one major caveat is if I have to stop DPS'ing then the heals stop along with it. Sun Burst may help if you are near me but otherwise, see you at the camp fire(...oooh that's what the Virtuous tree needs, a feat to extend the range of Sun Blast).
What about making the 40% from Righteousness only apply to hybrid skills (ones that heal and do dmg at the same time, like FF and SB) and not pure-healing skills (like HW, AS)?
This way the debuff would be meaningful while levelling and not gimp us when we try to just purely survive in PvE or PvP?
What about making the 40% from Righteousness only apply to hybrid skills (ones that heal and do dmg at the same time, like FF and SB) and not pure-healing skills (like HW, AS)?
This way the debuff would be meaningful while levelling and not gimp us when we try to just purely survive in PvE or PvP?
I like the idea. It still won't make me waste money on potions though, I have a Cleric Companion. Even when I use the Man-at-Arms for a tough fight, I just summon the Cleric again and in no time I am fit as a fiddle. It gets really old using the same companion all of the time though, I certainly would not spend Zen on a Companion that I would not use and with Righteousness in play I won't use any of them over my Cleric.
I like the idea. It still won't make me waste money on potions though, I have a Cleric Companion. Even when I use the Man-at-Arms for a tough fight, I just summon the Cleric again and in no time I am fit as a fiddle. It gets really old using the same companion all of the time though, I certainly would not spend Zen on a Companion that I would not use and with Righteousness in play I won't use any of them over my Cleric.
You know I was running a dungeon and a tank had the nerve to tell me more heals please (when that's all I was doing because I was on my healing spec cleric) because He wasn't willing to chug potions!! Seriously, my clerics use zoo many potions, so many that I have a constant net gold loss... thanks to righteousness. I can keep everyone healed but not myself.
Comments
OR an additional class feature? Wizards have 2, why can't clerics?
Good point.
Also every other classes class features are buffs not debuffs.
I went half elf too and I don't regret a thing.
So, you're a month and a half late responding to this, but thanks, I guess. Maybe one day, if I'm really bored, I'll try out your game again, see if you guys can get some semblance of balance going on.
It's a lil disheartening to see yet another cleric leave the game that contributed so much to helping others with information. The time you and others spent testing and then subsequently posting your findings here is much appreciated. Cryptic ruined the cleric. They made it into a class that has sub par healing,buffing,debuffing and abysmal DPS. The only reasons at all to have one in a group is still......astral shield and linked spirit till they fix it, and they WILL fix it. Rogues DPS well, tanks now can tank well, CW's are still awesome and GWF's specced properly bring much to a group. We clerics can not come close to any of the other classes when it comes to filling our role. I am most likely right behind you and unspecified in heading out the door of this game. Sad...
Some bugs needed to be fixed with the class, and a lot of bugs still exist as passive nerfs to the class overall. A good example is the trait that on healing an ally they are granted a buff that negates 80% of combat advantage damage. That only works with healing word.
This isn't a rage on bugs; because, beside these shortcomings the cleric was playable and still a lot of fun, where you went wrong is by listening to the members of the player base that were trying to play your cleric like a cleric in other games, and not like the cleric you created that I loved. The only issue with a clerics agro was a cleric trying to run away from the agro, now the poor control wizard and rogue are doomed. It was a good feeling thinking to myself well I have all this chain armor for a reason! As I dived into a pack of mobs side by side with the Guardian dropping my Astral Shield for us both, building my action points for Devine Armor to give myself 15% more defense and 20% more health on top of my 25k hps and massive armor defense %. The wizard and great weapon fighter having their way with them as they stayed focused on me and the tank.
While the rest of the group is fighting the hordes that follow this evil abomination the rogue slips off to the shadows to ambush the boss while his army is distracted by the hardend team of adventurers.
^^^ That was just the most awesome healer I have played in any game so far.
Now its nerfed, no more agro. I hated the fact that Astral shield stacked, and couldn't wait for the day it was fixed so that 2 clerics in a party would be obviously worse than taking another dps class or a tank, even though I always played with a premade one of each class group, the pick up groups were horrible flavor of the month exploit groups, I did manage to meet a few good players from time to time who didn't try in one way to cheat. The duration nerf was a bad move for the class; because, now its even more viable to bring two clerics, and it's not an exploit.
I liked the fact that I healed the party passively, and the more asskickin I did the better off the group was. I did not want to be a stand in the back heal bot. I thought that the T2 ice gaint end boss with the 30 golem adds was a challenge as I controlled the golems + the rest of the melee adds, the group killing archers, and me still hitting them with healing word in divine mode, tossing Astral Shield at the bosses feet for the rogue, and building action points with the army chasing me with sunburst and hitting everyone with divine armor.
I can't say I will be back; because, history of MMO's tells me you will continue to listen to the troll bads on your forums and ruin your own game designs.
Edit: Righteousness sucks, please for the love of god remove it or at least reduce the crippling impact it has. It's nearly impossible to do any higher level content without chewing potions and desperately dumping all the healing/regen encounters I can - despite the fact that I am a healer!
"Every saint has a past and every sinner has a future."
"Education is an admirable thing, but it is well to remember from time to time that nothing that is worth knowing can be taught."
"Life is too important to be taken seriously.":)
if you got to use too many potions in your group then your mates and probably you are doing something wrong ...
there is a clear route in the design.
the only thing that is a bit weird is that righteusness has no beneficial effect in addition to the understandable debuff because it looks like its supposed to be a feature.
You are uninformed and blissfully ignorant as to why the righteousness debuff was put in.
Lemme splain....no..splain will take to long..lemme sum up.
Open beta 3- The healing class (cleric) wasn't using as many healing potions as the other other non healing classes. I know crazy
right?
Open beta4 and forward- Righteousness -40% to self healing on the healing class so it uses MORE healing potions then any other class...again..I know..crazy right?
It's the single most ridiculous thing about the class among many many ridiculous things...It's laughable really.
Devoted Cleric
Righteousness Mechanic: This power will now correctly affect potion use.
I was soloing the instances on my CW using the Ioun Stone (no healer companion) and not needing potions either. Something in the name. . . .con.... con-something.... oh right. *Control* Wizard. Tabbed Chill strike kills swarms, control powers keep the other mobs locked down permanently. Didn't take many hits. Never needed much in the way of potions.
My TR has a high-stealth (not perma, but high) build that in pve also resulted in nearly never getting hit either. Potion use was occasional for when I'd mess up or if there were several big mobs I couldn't quite finish off before the stealth ran out, but even then... kite around a few seconds, refill the stealth bar with Shadow Strike and back in stealth with the fight getting easier as you whittle down the biggies. I probably used more potions on this toon after dropping the cleric companion in the mid-40's, but even there... maybe 2-3 per instance, but I'd pick up 10+ on the run so still come out ahead.
GF when not in dungeons can perma-hide behind their shield if they want to avoid damage. Boring play style, but again... no potion use. Still only in the 30's, so the cleric companion is more than sufficient. No potion use.
My GWF is still low enough that I sometime use potions on her if I don't feel like waiting out the 30s cooldown on my companion's heal, but that should be changing soon. And until then I've got many size 99 stacks of potions from my other characters that they "passed down" because they didn't need them.
I don't recall ever buying a potion off the vendor before level 60, tbh, and even now I just use them during dungeon runs, and generally don't need all that many, so the cost is pretty minimal.
So... there's my anecdotal evidence that potion use is irrelevant to any class, and is therefore only harmful to clerics on dungeon runs, and thus must go.
Toodles.
This has been my experience as well, Righteousness didn't matter much to me until level cap.
This! +++++ (up votes)
My cleric in 40's always run's out of healing potions most times when im solo in quest dungeon i will die because i can't heal enough and have no dps where is the balance???.
I see why most players quit clerics and take up CW there is a real lack of healers in the game.
I started playing this game because I enjoyed playing DC in this game. Even with all the bugs/exploits in PvP, I still managed to enjoy the fighting style that DCs had. Now, after the patch which dramatically changed the class, I stopped playing my cleric. The whole reason I had enjoyed this game in beta was janked out from under me like a carpet.
This idiotic debuff plus the AS nerf is arguably one of the stupidest design decisions I've ever seen in an MMO. Don't even remind me that this is supposed to be D&D. Then there's the argument that DCs will have too much gold - which is relatively worthless in this game (AD & keys is where it's at).
DCs cant even PvP anymore - it's like bees on honey when a DC logs into Domination - dead in 2 hits or 2 secs, whatever. =/
Honestly, someone needs to organize a DC strike! I know I quit DC... time to go play another class, maybe try Rift for free - at least there's a decent healer class in that game that will tide me over until ESO comes (and everyone abandons this game).
WTF
We're looking into it?
and No thnaks I do not like cheers.
My God WTF is this statement mean?
DCs have a malus. I talked alot about this to befriended gamers, who didnt know anything about Clerics and always got the same reactions, laughter, cause it is just ridiculous.
I should be able to outheal the damage of any class, when I spec into healing, as long as my opponent just facerolls his at wills at me not even bothering to use any crowd control (e.g. Cloud of Steel - yes I know, that build takes a lot more then just facerolling, but still). That is for pvp, If I play pvp I just don't want to respecc to be another glasscanon. I want to heal, that is what i like and did in every game so far. The beauty about healing in pvp is simply: "first hit wins" doesnt occur anymore once there is a healer somewhere. And at the moment I am way more successful using damagepowers, while remaining my healerspec.
Speaking of pve: thank you for the threat changes! Honestly, no sarcasm intended. At least I dont have to kite around that much. Was kind of fun in the beginning but really stopped me from even joining groups at some point. Still: I can heal up other classes just fine (as long as they dont constantly run away from my blue circles when I have no HWs left anymore. But the second I have to fight off some adds I am toast in seconds. Those moments are absolutely hectical.
Change that mechanic. Really. Maybe you have to make a complete overhaul of this class, but just do something, it feels wrong as it stands.
Usually at the end of a dungeon run a rogue will have at least 50% of my healing done. How they do this I don't know, maybe lifesteal.
In fact I'm even considering dropping Repurpose Soul.
Right now I'm playing with a Virtuous build which is fun, if you get heals from me it's because of PoD on a mob that doesn't die, Guardian of the Faith if group health is low(normally it's Divine Armour), my companion has healed you(she's the real healer) or a Sun Blast if you happen to be in range. I don't use Astral Seal, Healing Word or any of that other garbage.....I'll let you in on a little secret, nobody even knows or cares. So long as there is a Cleric in the party they think they have got the heals handled and will happily chug on Health Pots all the way through. :P
In fact you could say you need a Cleric in a group, not becauce they can heal you but because the mitigation buffs they offer allow you to get more out of your health potions.
Rogue with a cleric pet? Pretty sure cleric pet heals count for 'healing done', and 30% of a 20k healthbar every 30 secs over a twenty minute dungeon (massive handwavy generalisations here) = 240k, then add all the lifesteal/bleed stuff on that.
Also, potion use counts. It all adds up.
I usually find (as a healbot) the healtable at the end looks something like "everyone else: 500-800k heals, me: 2-5 million" (depending on how OMG MUST STAND IN RED they were) So yeah, 50% can happen.
Don't discount how much damage you're preventing, either. If you run foresight+benefit of foresight you're stopping almost 11% of the damage even happening, but no table will show you that.
So far I haven't done any dungeons with foresight and there is no way to feat it with my Virtuous build which is a shame but I've finally found enough spare points to unlock it 3/3 so I'll get to try it out on the next dungeon run.
Hehe, it is true with mitigation buffs/debuffs nothing shows up on the stats panel, with feated Brand of the Sun, Daunting Light, Prophecy of Doom and Divine Armour I don't really need to heal and everybody else's damage goes through the roof.
The one that still has me puzzled is Prophecy of Doom, I've seen it do some really good heals but in boss fights(when I want to see it the most) I'm always too preoccupied to watch how much it heals for. It is a great "one spell fits all" kind of sucker that one since if you are mowing through trash and not getting the heals from PoD then you probably didn't need them anyway but if it's expiring on a tough mob then the heal should be substantial.
It is a shame that we need to contend with Righteousness because it directly negates the value of Power and Crit for self healing and a dead healer won't heal anybody so better off just stacking Defence/Deflect/Regeneration and go with % of Max Health heals.....Can anyone say...BORING!!!! I want to launch insane holy fury onto the enemy and have the pleasant side effect of healing myself and team mates while doing it. Mitigation is really the only way this is possible now.
If they get the mechanics right I should be able to max out Power and feat Healer's Lore, partnering it up with Terrifying Insight, Rising Hope, Repurpose Soul and Cycle of Change so that to boost healing teammates I do so by boosting my own personal damage. The one major caveat is if I have to stop DPS'ing then the heals stop along with it. Sun Burst may help if you are near me but otherwise, see you at the camp fire(...oooh that's what the Virtuous tree needs, a feat to extend the range of Sun Blast).
This way the debuff would be meaningful while levelling and not gimp us when we try to just purely survive in PvE or PvP?
I like the idea. It still won't make me waste money on potions though, I have a Cleric Companion. Even when I use the Man-at-Arms for a tough fight, I just summon the Cleric again and in no time I am fit as a fiddle. It gets really old using the same companion all of the time though, I certainly would not spend Zen on a Companion that I would not use and with Righteousness in play I won't use any of them over my Cleric.
You know I was running a dungeon and a tank had the nerve to tell me more heals please (when that's all I was doing because I was on my healing spec cleric) because He wasn't willing to chug potions!! Seriously, my clerics use zoo many potions, so many that I have a constant net gold loss... thanks to righteousness. I can keep everyone healed but not myself.