test content
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc

PvP - Fighting from perma stealth is not balance

2456711

Comments

  • mehguy138mehguy138 Member Posts: 1,803 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    huckasex wrote: »
    strange then, i dont die from it and im prolly more squishy then cause im a rogue myself...now, when i can do it, why cant you?

    Lies, lies, lies... You're not even funny, stop.
    M6 almost drains your soul given how boring it is. (c) joocycuzzzzzz
  • huckasevenhuckaseven Banned Users Posts: 470 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    Because I am not rogue, end of discussion.

    so cause youre not a rogue, your WASD keys suddenly dont work anymore?
  • akula69akula69 Member Posts: 28 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Is perma-stealth + distance OP?

    Why >>>>>YES <<<<<it is.
  • jadedlilithjadedlilith Member Posts: 40
    edited June 2013
    I have more problems with getting CC-locked, especially by CWs. Can hardly get off a single heal. Have had that issue from the start. But my big thing is, I don't want a PVE nerf trying to balance PVP. Keep the stats/effects separate, like CoH (RiP).
  • callmedeuxcallmedeux Member Posts: 182 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    Perma Stealth build lols.

    GEtowned by my TR.

    And then get owned in PvE dungeons when I do 8-10mil more dmg than you.

    Now I ran into 1 TR who WAS better than I AM. The only TR ive ever met better than me.

    Had a super long stealth, but he knew how to dodge and combo perfectly, 99.7% of the TRs dunno how to do that.

    And he probably had better enchants than mine so rank 8/9 and perfect weapon/armor enchant.

    /End thread
  • bestcarrynabestcarryna Member Posts: 58
    edited June 2013
    You can slowly walk and no, it does NOT work, you are already dead while slowly walking to your grave.

    Smoke bomb is the easiest CC to dodge/walk out of in the game, you gotta be slow to not have your finger on shift the moment you hear the smoke
    Kaenerys - Mindflayer - TR
  • xiphenonxiphenon Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Throwing knifes should break stealth and it's damage should be nerfed. It's not really fun/fair to die without even seeing your opponent or have a chance to fight back (sometimes i get 3k, 4k and even 5k damage per knife). And let's be honest, who knows how to play with this (and sometimes who doesn't) is rather difficult to find before dying first.

    I'm a DC.

    Please nerf GWFs ... it's no fun to be CCed to death and because of perma 500% sprint I can't even run away
    Please nerf CWs ... It's no fun to be CCed and then ice knifed multiple times for 300.000 damage average
    please nerf GFs ... It's no fun to fight an enemy with 1 million hit point at minimum

    Please buff DCs ... they should deal at least 300% damage and get 90% damage resist.

    Fix this or PvP is dead!!!!!!

    /irony off

    PS: in PvE I won't heal anyone anymore, because they are all OP!!!!11oneoneone
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • destinyknightdestinyknight Member Posts: 962 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    zingarbage wrote: »
    PvE players screamed nerf to clerics and ruined our PvP, so pound sand bro.


    There were just as many pve players screaming for nerf about that just as pvp players. Actually I've seen more pvp players complaining about that then pve.
  • ayrouxayroux Member Posts: 4,271 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    There were just as many pve players screaming for nerf about that just as pvp players. Actually I've seen more pvp players complaining about that then pve.

    more people complains in PVP because there was NOTHING you could do about it. Those same players ran that set up in PVE and it affected noone except got themselves loot, so why would they complain?

    Seems logical is 1 team gets screwed having NO DCs and the other has 2 DCs with AS stack, youll hear about it on the forums alright....

    People group and double stack DC AS in PVE? Itll be only the classes who were left out of that group that will complain...

    People complain when they feel "wronged" only a rare few go "hey this is OP I should probably report this" especialyl when they can use that for personal gain...

    TO ALL THE TRS SAYING KEEP PERMA STEALTH IN GAME: If you have to rely on a mechanic that allows you to attack someone while they cannot attack you, thats called a 1 sided fight, and your bad... Even if it doesnt kill you, its a HUGE advantage that you can already stealth and sneak up on players. Perma stealth? It needs to be nerfed. Especially when there really isnt any skill needed to do it. I see TRs utilize other builds all the time that have AMAZING damage capability without relying on this at all... So dont say the class is worthless you just can EZ-mode roll face on keyboard to win mode anymore
  • bayne3bayne3 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Need bigger maps.
  • ayrouxayroux Member Posts: 4,271 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Oh and I just thought of this. If rogues can perma stealth CoS throw.... Guardian fighters should have a ranged at will then too where they can hold block and spam the ranged attack at the target at the same time to proc tene enchant damage... That sounds fair right?

    Youll see alot of players knights challenge/block/ranged weapon throw = DEAD.
  • schweifer1982schweifer1982 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,662 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    I am GF and i alwys target cw tr just why? 3 hit and all dead but i really sorry for dc nerf not just in pvp ,in insta too they like some shaman can't even heal or do dmg This is no CLERIC just adept trying to cast spells (i only skip killing cler in pvp beacuse i fell sorrow for him)
    many of my pal's dont play any more ! Feeling in lvl 30 to be a god and after 50 all dead .SO the really BIG problem is if you don't have fanatics "they love to die all time running benny hill all time" they will quit ,and if you dont have cleric in game! The game will fall beacuse nobudy will heal and with only pots you cant do t1 or t2 just only solo gamplay . And one more thing If you have mind you can kill tr if you are gf run or jump itoo air or just use the f..ing unstopp if you are gf raise your shild if it blocks then this is you direction use aoe if they hurt wont trowing daggers if you are cw use aoe by hell slott shild in spell mastery soo many tactics and if you are dc lay down and just die or the funny thing don'T move from campfire !! STRongly advice!!
    Sorry for bad english:)
    GWF 3700Ilvl Éjsötét & ProPala 3200Ilvl Menydörgés (main) & Szürkefarkas 2600 ilvl
  • g0ld3n4c3g0ld3n4c3 Member Posts: 79 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    @Kilxan, I love you now. Here you nailed it. We need pve skills/ pvp skills to end this joke.
  • danteichigo23danteichigo23 Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    meh i dont have problems vs rogues on pvp
  • danteichigo23danteichigo23 Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    pff go **** ur tr , trs r not gods at pvp if u fight <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> ppl it`s not my prob
  • drungorthdrungorth Member Posts: 35
    edited June 2013
    LoL it's because most people play full dps build. In that case yeah knives are op...so is any rogue spell then.

    I'd love to see a rogue killing me with his knives from afar vs my sentinel hybrid gwf....ud take off what 1/4 of my life then u run :)
  • lednaillednail Member Posts: 99
    edited June 2013
    ayroux wrote: »
    Oh and I just thought of this. If rogues can perma stealth CoS throw.... Guardian fighters should have a ranged at will then too where they can hold block and spam the ranged attack at the target at the same time to proc tene enchant damage... That sounds fair right?

    Youll see alot of players knights challenge/block/ranged weapon throw = DEAD.

    GF's need 2 encounters and a daily that refresh your entire block meter while you range dps.
  • yliana1yliana1 Member Posts: 38
    edited June 2013
    "PvP" here is a joke... You make more Points by avoiding PvP combat,and just cap Points,and ultimatively that wins the game so why bother fighting anyone..
    Furthermore its become a game of hit first,hit big,win,with the variation of,cc first,hit big,win ^^
    No gearcheck makes for awesome matches too.. or not >.> For example i went into a lvl 30-39 bracket pvp match on cleric earlier,now there was a gf with enchants and all.. he 3shot every single one of us over and over (exept the cw that avoided any and all pvp and capped points,wich actually i might do from now on aswell if i bother to "pvp") I loled at TRs and CWs trying to kill me,the so called dps classes couldnt scratch me while the tanky class 3shots ppl left and right.. /shrug

    Overall there is close to 0 balance,a big reason for that is the inability to pair people with equal gear up with ppl of their gear lvl,and not someone that barely has any gear/enchants.. I cant see how it is funny for anyone if he goes into a match 3hitting people and winning by default unless he gets bots on his team that dont move. Then again,i bet most of those ppl fighting enemies way under their gear level enjoy it and think of themselves as the ultimate PvP hero or Pro Player etc. So it probably stays like this..

    Add in the Bots,and exploits people have been "free to use" until now to obtain said gear/enchants etc it makes for an overall meh experience to me. And now people are surely going to tell me the good old : dont like it,here is the door! Shame on those trying to improve the game,rather then abuse whatever exploit or fotm there is to "be pro" /shrug
  • brarmin11brarmin11 Member Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    There are many threads on game balance that touch on all the classes. I have a level 60 of each one now and PvP frequently. Most of the imbalances can be worked around with a good team. That doesn't make them any less inbalanced but it does make them less ridiculous. The Intelligence heavy perma control wizard builds with Ray of Frost has no good counter.

    Yes I know you can sort of see where I am by where the spells land on your body. I use every landscape object to my advantage though and usually toss spells from on top of something so getting to me before you die is not going to happen. Even if I just go with my Armor Piearcing heavy kit instead of seven teneb power enchants I have little problem taking down most players while they can do nothing but being controlled. In PvP domination being controlled is the same thing as winning.

    If CWs were already topping the scoreboard because of our already long control (I usually three second cc most classes in a more traditional build) then I could see Cryptic leaving this total cheese build around but I think we all are aware that CWs are already the PvP masters and don't need perma control spells to win. I know it frustrates those we play against and that is exactly why most of the other CWs I know that use it choose to do so. I want PvP to stay fun for everyone so this game can last.

    Fighting with control in general is a OP ability but I understand that PW is just following along the path WoW and Rift started. They can do better. Add control reduction potions to the PvP vendor. Regardless of what they decide to do with control in general, though, allowing more than one attack while being controlled is game breaking and no fun for anyone.
  • schweifer1982schweifer1982 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,662 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    GF need only 1 thing to REMOVE Tab Option it usles ,mark is slower then at-will mark an only affect 1 ppl or mob! I personaly only use it on T.O.I epic to lure add out . I thin the second Worst class is CW think about what you play !You play d&d, think about Elmister books MAGE WIZARD SORCERER WARLOCK(maching gods) was always op and this is good why? beacuse magic is always an advantege over steel or bow!
    Rouge was always a joke he can only kill mage if he use toilet(and this is the point if you want play dirty play rouge stab if somone sleep in bead). Think about the best rouge in d&d Jarlaxe can't even kill a ranger pff.. But if you want play brave face the danger play Warrior classes or Cleric if you want play power ower ppl play wizard!
    The only thing in d&d can mach mage was cleric heavy armor favored by good'S and can hit like rouge + spells full heal in no sec AND what i really miss resurection ! BUT as i say before DC is no cleric its only adept
    GWF 3700Ilvl Éjsötét & ProPala 3200Ilvl Menydörgés (main) & Szürkefarkas 2600 ilvl
  • schweifer1982schweifer1982 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,662 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    WE need more paragon then all will be better!
    GWF 3700Ilvl Éjsötét & ProPala 3200Ilvl Menydörgés (main) & Szürkefarkas 2600 ilvl
  • krumple01krumple01 Member Posts: 755 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    There are many threads on game balance that touch on all the classes. I have a level 60 of each one now and PvP frequently. Most of the imbalances can be worked around with a good team. That doesn't make them any less inbalanced but it does make them less ridiculous. The Intelligence heavy perma stealth rogue builds with Cloud of Steel has no good counter.

    Yes I know you can sort of see where I am by where the daggers land on your body. I use every landscape object to my advantage though and usually toss daggers from on top of something so getting to me before you die is not going to happen. Even if I just go with my Armor Piearcing heavy kit instead of seven teneb power enchants I have little problem taking down most players while they can do nothing but run away. In PvP domination running away is the same thing as winning.

    If TRs were already topping the scoreboard because of our already high damage (I usually three shot most classes in a more traditional build) then I could see Cryptic leaving this total cheese build around but I think we all are aware that TRs are already the PvP masters and don't need perma stealth daggers to win. I know it frustrates those we play against and that is exactly why most of the other TRs I know that use it choose to do so. I want PvP to stay fun for everyone so this game can last.

    Fighting from within stealth in general is a OP ability but I understand that PW is just following along the path WoW and Rift started. They can do better. Add stealth detection potions to the PvP vendor. Regardless of what they decide to do with stealth in general, though, allowing more than one attack out of stealth is game breaking and no fun for anyone.

    Yep the crying won't end until the rogue is nerfed into uselessness. You aren't a rogue at all. You are just pretending as if you are as an attempt to gain some kind of support. Take throwing daggers away from a rogue and they have nothing to fall back on. So many times ive gone toe to toe with a gwf and once his HP is down to > < this much he goes darting off trying to save himself. Without daggers they would get away and come back to try and finish me off? No sorry, no sympathy for your failed attempt to nerf rogue for the 5th time.
  • schweifer1982schweifer1982 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,662 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    krumple01 wrote: »
    Yep the crying won't end until the rogue is nerfed into uselessness. You aren't a rogue at all. You are just pretending as if you are as an attempt to gain some kind of support. Take throwing daggers away from a rogue and they have nothing to fall back on. So many times ive gone toe to toe with a gwf and once his HP is down to > < this much he goes darting off trying to save himself. Without daggers they would get away and come back to try and finish me off? No sorry, no sympathy for your failed attempt to nerf rogue for the 5th time.

    My second char is After GF is GWF and, i can say if somone trow me dagger i have no problem just press the running button **** + tab getting 3k hp from nowhere and the tr 12 dagger is out and as you say i come back and finish the rest of you hp in low lvls in high lvl i got ower 9k hp with unstopp
    GWF 3700Ilvl Éjsötét & ProPala 3200Ilvl Menydörgés (main) & Szürkefarkas 2600 ilvl
  • tang56tang56 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    My second char is After GF is GWF and, i can say if somone trow me dagger i have no problem just press the running button **** + tab getting 3k hp from nowhere and the tr 12 dagger is out and as you say i come back and finish the rest of you hp in low lvls in high lvl i got ower 9k hp with unstopp

    Sub level 60 is well balanced enough. It's when you hit L60 that everything goes nuts.
    RIP Neverwinter 26/06/2014
  • dominemesisdominemesis Member Posts: 269 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    I'm down for a Cloud of Steel nerf, so long as our Stealth remains untouched. It's the mechanic that gives Trickster Rogues the ability to be tricky, and basically defines the overall class. CoS only has 12 charges and is mainly unreliable other than in 1 vs. 1 scenarios. In PVE it is also not the best choice for an at-will.

    Most rogue builds already received a severe nerf after Shocking Execution's base damage was reduced by 60% and Bleeds began ticking a lot slower than usual. Some of us have been trying to find ways to recover the playability of our class, and we found it in stealth. Trickster Rogues were meant to be tricky just as all the other classes were meant to perform their given roles. If having Cloud of Steel nerfed makes PVPers happier, then I would gladly support it.


    I highlighted the portion above because that is really what a rogue should be good at, picking off outliers in 1v1 situations. They are the wolf that pops up and snags a sheep that wandered too far from the herd. As a striker, the ability to deal grievous damage to a single target before they can effectively respond is their whole job.

    So folks are mad at them for doing their job. In the 4E PNP rogues hit hard, disable foes, and are hard to pin down or hit back, and that's on top of stealth. Rangers hit harder and twice as fast as a Rogue, sometimes from long range, very nearly cannot be closed in on when they go defensive, and can apply Quarry to a target to make them take even more damage. Warlocks apply curses, turn invisible among other strong defenses, and hit 1 or more targets with magic that has effects on top of severe damage.

    PVP will ultimately want all strikers gutted because they will be viewed as unfair for having strong defenses and hitting like mack trucks, which is straight from the PNP. Think a GWF is bad in pvp after the recent patch? Be glad you haven't faced the Barbarian or Essentials Slayer yet.
  • schweifer1982schweifer1982 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,662 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    I highlighted the portion above because that is really what a rogue should be good at, picking off outliers in 1v1 situations. They are the wolf that pops up and snags a sheep that wandered too far from the herd. As a striker, the ability to deal grievous damage to a single target before they can effectively respond is their whole job.

    So folks are mad at them for doing their job. In the 4E PNP rogues hit hard, disable foes, and are hard to pin down or hit back, and that's on top of stealth. Rangers hit harder and twice as fast as a Rogue, sometimes from long range, very nearly cannot be closed in on when they go defensive, and can apply Quarry to a target to make them take even more damage. Warlocks apply curses, turn invisible among other strong defenses, and hit 1 or more targets with magic that has effects on top of severe damage.

    PVP will ultimately want all strikers gutted because they will be viewed as unfair for having strong defenses and hitting like mack trucks, which is straight from the PNP. Think a GWF is bad in pvp after the recent patch? Be glad you haven't faced the Barbarian or Essentials Slayer yet.

    ps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nm44DBtWD4I&feature=youtu.be Just copy paste bad? lol hou can CW figth 3 ppl and kill 3 not even if they are bad greaded i don't want to say gwf is op don't misunderstand me .!
    GWF 3700Ilvl Éjsötét & ProPala 3200Ilvl Menydörgés (main) & Szürkefarkas 2600 ilvl
  • balorinbalorin Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 132 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    I don't care about ranged attacks for rogues, why they shouldn't have those kind of skills.
    But the invisible throwing knives attack is just a game break mecanic for any serious PVP design if you don't have the opportunity to counter.
    I don't care about dammage, but at least i want to see the guy, just common sense for anyone.
    There is a difference between "Surprise" and "Free kill with no risks"
  • jacksoonjacksoon Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 332 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Usually i use my GWF for stab that TR in shadow. When i see someone trow dagger on me, i use my daily and a passive in the bar grant me 5 sec of invincibility. 3 sec and the TR is dead under my sword ^^ Usually work, but i need a daily skill for use that buff :D
  • inexistinexist Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    zingarbage wrote: »
    PvE players screamed nerf to clerics and ruined our PvP, so pound sand bro.

    Ruined your PvP? This is a PvE game 'bro'. And it was PvP players that got the DC nerfed. They *****ed for weeks about how it was op to stack AS and sit at a point. The PvE players *****ing about AS stacking wanted it gone so more classes/tactics were viable in epic content. Not to nerf a class to save our e-peen.

    Any changes made to this game for the sake of PvP is the wrong direction. Again, this is a PvE game...not GW2.
  • inexistinexist Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    I wouldn't play if no PvP.


    Next Rogues need more nerfs. Why do they have ranged attacks anyway. Throwing daggers should be a encounter not a at will. Couple more nerfs and we are balanced.

    So you chose to play a PvE focused game and do nothing but play PvP? I'll never understand PvPer's....

    And they have ranged attacks because they have them in 4e. They can choose to be ranged or melee at anytime. Why do players like you keep assuming that rogues are strictly melee? No where, in any book/game/pnp content does it say they are not allowed to use ranged. And quit saying 'we' like you actually play one. Everyone knows you don't. Acting like you do then asking for nerfs is childish....
Sign In or Register to comment.