test content
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc
Options

PvP - Fighting from perma stealth is not balance

1246711

Comments

  • Options
    abombination247abombination247 Member Posts: 1,279 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    capgarnas wrote: »
    Yeah had this guy today too. I called him out for being lame as well. Its not enough he has the bis gear but he has to abuse broken game mechanics. Hadly his fault as the entire game is one big abuse of ****ty game mechanics and exploits.

    I mean where is the challenge being in perfect gear and perma stealth killing people at range.

    He was backed up by one or two of his guildmates so surprise i left. It was just dumb.

    Exactly.... He is well known for this tactic and well I will let him have it. Leaving is the best choice if no PvP is there to be had.
  • Options
    damianessdamianess Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 283 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    Please, with the Tene nerf and the exec changes rogues are so easy to outplay on all classes. Just shut up before you nerf a class into the ground because you got outplayed. Nerf 1 spec, that si perma, without nerfing the rest? Impossible, and perma has no burst so just put an aoe on your bar and adapt like a real man.

    ^^This.

    I would rather face a perma-stealth rogue vs an insane burst TR like Quicktoes from my guild or Riddic from Lemonade Stand.
  • Options
    quseioquseio Member Posts: 43
    edited June 2013
    At least give it a chance of breaking stealth or if you crit it definately breaks something..i like pvp but i dont have twitch reflexes and cable internet and good pvpers are always one shotting me rogue or cw
    The pvp queues need a better ladder system
  • Options
    abombination247abombination247 Member Posts: 1,279 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    damianess wrote: »
    ^^This.

    I would rather face a perma-stealth rogue vs an insane burst TR like Quicktoes from my guild or Riddic from Lemonade Stand.

    I don't know. Think I rather get blown up then not be able to kill my target. At least its a fight.
  • Options
    wingsforwingsfor Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    klixan wrote: »
    Honestly, I wish they'd just remove PvP from the game altogether. But at the very least, have separate skills for PvP and PvE. Then I don't care what they do to the PvP skills, because my PvE experience won't be effected.

    That is a simple and effectiv sollution- just alternate CD's/spell powers once in pvp..but ofc it meens that the devs would have to sit and figure, real beta teams would need to test and cryptic would need to spent money and we all know thats not going to happen.

    ah and one more thing in all honesty. stick all the "if you cant counter a perma stealthed TR/ perma controlling CW than ur a ****" answers where they belong..cause whatever the individual skill set is..
    the meta of pvp should no evolve around 2 classes and thats all.
  • Options
    damianessdamianess Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 283 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    I don't know. Think I rather get blown up then not be able to kill my target. At least its a fight.

    It's the same thing in my opinion.

    Lurker's assault > stealth> impact shot 18k > stunned> another impact shot > dead > Impossible to Catch > spam CoS and take out two more of your teammates.
  • Options
    abombination247abombination247 Member Posts: 1,279 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    damianess wrote: »
    It's the same thing in my opinion.

    Lurker's assault > stealth> impact shot 18k > stunned> another impact shot > dead > Impossible to Catch > spam CoS and take out two more of your teammates.

    Its not the same thing. perma stealth potting that can't die isn't PvP. So leave and find another match is best solution. I love PvP so why waste time fighting a ghost.
  • Options
    damianessdamianess Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 283 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    Its not the same thing. perma stealth potting that can't die isn't PvP. So leave and find another match is best solution. I love PvP so why waste time fighting a ghost.

    They can die it's just you're not good at finding them. I find stealth rogues all the time because their movements are predictable. Not only that, their damage is non-existent with a pure perma-stealth INT build.

    The fact that you would ragequit because you went against a build that you couldn't counter is quite funny.
  • Options
    timmbeertimmbeer Member Posts: 268 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    You need to understand that any implementation of stealth detection will totally ruin TR, though I will love using it just to pizz off the TRs. It will be better to fix the "permanent" stealth instead, however long that may be.
    "Lucky" is the new FOTM.
  • Options
    lateralus500lateralus500 Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Lol, looks like someone is using it to exploit pve. I hope they nerf it so bad players don't play op classes and call it skills. I've seen so many bad rogues that are even too lazy to get combat advantage and easily top charts.

    This guy has the best idea. We should just whine until they remove rogues.
  • Options
    enzothecrowenzothecrow Member Posts: 3
    edited June 2013
    As a completely new player to this game, (I'm like level 8) and reading this entire thing (I like to read up on a games PVP before playing it), seems to be a lot of so called un balanced things in the PVP..

    Though, I have to admit, permanent stealth does sound a bit OP and I am not looking forward to dealing with it :C. Despite all the hate and anger I am seeing here, everyone seems to be making very valid points going against and defending the perma stealth tactic.
    You have to admit though, even TR players, it does sound a bit OP. I've PVP'd in many games in my nerdy life, and stealth is always annoying to deal with, but acceptable since the stealth doesn't stand forever giving the other player a fighting chance , and stealth classes still usually are top tier in PVP.
    I love PVP and it doesn't sound very thrilling to fight an opponent you can't see or hit, seems kinda one sided... I guess it's fun for the one doing it though lol.~
    This is just a noobies opinion, don't take me seriously. :c
  • Options
    chizzahchizzah Member Posts: 14 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Well, son. Let me tell you TRs still get hit and even killed in stealth. Any damage done to a TR in stealth causes you to see them. I'd be more worried about classes you can see but still can't hit like CWs or classes you manage to hit but can never kill them like GFs. Long story short different people will always hate on different things. Me personally if I can't beat someone I just move on and gear up until I can. Most of these issues are gear related. P2W bro. That's what the game was made for. Not to play or be fair. It's up to you as the individual to decide to make an team effort when dealing with people that can't be beat alone. Team play is the only way to beat uberness.
  • Options
    sheyjinsheyjin Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 23 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    The Stealth should be broke when the attack is made... The Devs need to stay with the 4ed rules for the game.. This is not WoW or any of the others. This is based on Table top Dungeons and Dragons...

    A Rogue uses stealth to sneak in and get an attack off, thus killing the target. The DMG for the abilities are fine.. But, after the stealth attack, The stealth should be broke. Then the TR can use "shadow strike" or what ever to get back into stealth. But stealth needs to be broke after each attack...
  • Options
    huckasevenhuckaseven Banned Users Posts: 470 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    sheyjin wrote: »
    The Stealth should be broke when the attack is made... The Devs need to stay with the 4ed rules for the game.. This is not WoW or any of the others. This is based on Table top Dungeons and Dragons...

    A Rogue uses stealth to sneak in and get an attack off, thus killing the target. The DMG for the abilities are fine.. But, after the stealth attack, The stealth should be broke. Then the TR can use "shadow strike" or what ever to get back into stealth. But stealth needs to be broke after each attack...
    if stealth would break form at wills, around 80% of the whole class needs to be redesigned

    please think befor oyu post
  • Options
    degraafinationdegraafination Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    If you can't find and kill a perma-stealth rogue (especially while fighting on a point), you're doing it wrong. They're not hard find.
    PWP_zpsf8f711ce.jpg
    Join Essence of Aggression: PVP-ing Hard Since Beta!
  • Options
    chipsterchipster Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 128 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    If you can't find and kill a perma-stealth rogue (especially while fighting on a point), you're doing it wrong. They're not hard find.

    lol.. before you find them, they give you a hard lashing blade 22k + a few throw.. bye bye~
  • Options
    huckasevenhuckaseven Banned Users Posts: 470 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    chipster wrote: »
    lol.. before you find them, they give you a hard lashing blade 22k + a few throw.. bye bye~

    only if youre doing it wrong
  • Options
    masu84masu84 Member Posts: 134 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    Perma Stealth should be impossible.

    30sec Stealth time, 10sec visible, 30sec stealth, ... (with high intellegence and recovery!) would be okay. PvE and PvP is totally broken because of perma stealth. Play vs a team with 1-2 perma stealth rogues. its not funny. they are able to defend a single node vs 2-3 players easily. clerics and CWs are down instantly and GWFs and GFs will die too but the TR needs a little bit more time to kill these tanky classes.

    Its jsut stupid!

    killing a dungeon boss solo with TR shouldnt be piossible at all!

    Increase cooldown of most kills!
    No leaver penality in PvP!

    And here is the reason:
    ghostravyn wrote: »
    If you want people to stay for the match end even when you're sitting on a 600-10 score and you've decided to be ***-hats and spawn-camp, you need to give them a reason. Punishing them is not the answer. That's just pouring salt-acid into an already bleeding wound.
  • Options
    zjesminzzjesminz Member Posts: 183 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    They should not change it. I will play it in the future!
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Options
    sangrinesangrine Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 575 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Here's my rant about rogues and stealth.

    1. Rogue stealth in NW is invisibility, and not stealth. Stealth means hiding in darkness/shadow, camouflage, sneaking, ...
    If anyone should be invisible, it should be wizards with invisibility spells.

    2. Rogues can not be targeted while invisible. this is outrageous. Players should be able to attack an invisible person if they can correctly guess the location of that person.

    Rogue invisibility and 100% resistance to targeting are simply way too overpowered and have no place in any Neverwinter or D&D game.
  • Options
    l0th4ri0l0th4ri0 Member Posts: 589 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Don't worry, guys.. permastealth is here to stay. You do not even need to get a super high recovery/INT to do it, either. In order to remove permastealth, they would have to redesign several key feats of the TR class as well as remove Bait and Switch and/or Shadow Strike, as well as take down Gloaming Cut and the feats that amplify it. In other words, redesign the whole class pretty much.

    I would go ahead and get comfortable with the idea of invisible rogues being around for the entirety of this game's existence. But hey, complaining is cool too, I guess. :)

    PS Invisibility is NOT invincibility... damaging a stealthed rogue is one of the ways to break them out of stealth.
  • Options
    sangrinesangrine Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 575 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    How do you hit a rogue while he is invisible?
  • Options
    huckasevenhuckaseven Banned Users Posts: 470 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    masu84 wrote: »
    Perma Stealth should be impossible.

    30sec Stealth time, 10sec visible, 30sec stealth, ... (with high intellegence and recovery!) would be okay. PvE and PvP is totally broken because of perma stealth. Play vs a team with 1-2 perma stealth rogues. its not funny. they are able to defend a single node vs 2-3 players easily. clerics and CWs are down instantly and GWFs and GFs will die too but the TR needs a little bit more time to kill these tanky classes.

    Its jsut stupid!

    killing a dungeon boss solo with TR shouldnt be piossible at all!

    Increase cooldown of most kills!
    if 3 people on a node cant find the rogue, then its not the rogue beeing OP, its those 3 beeing stupid

    sorry, but thats how it is
  • Options
    yeruneyerune Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    sangrine wrote: »
    Here's my rant about rogues and stealth.

    1. Rogue stealth in NW is invisibility, and not stealth. Stealth means hiding in darkness/shadow, camouflage, sneaking, ...
    If anyone should be invisible, it should be wizards with invisibility spells.

    2. Rogues can not be attacked while invisible. this is outrageous. What kind of rogue magic are they using which allows 100% resistance to attack while invisible? Even the most powerful mages and alchemists in D&D don't possess such magic.

    Rogue invisibility and 100% resistance to attack are simply way too overpowered and have no place in any Neverwinter or D&D game.

    It's misinformation like this that just feed the nerf-frenzy.

    1. Stealth is NOT invisibility, go check some pvp videos and pay attention to the TR's. You will see them, they will be seen and killed, in stealth.

    2. TR's can be attacked whether or not they are in stealth. What you are saying is completely wrong. Unless the TR has the power slotted, taking damages diminishes stealth.

    That 100% damage and cc resist lasts about 3 seconds (on a non-cheating TR) and cannot be activated while prone.

    This whole nerfing-thread is ridiculous anyway... TR's are like the nuclear submarines. All you folks are whining about is how stealth works, and how you want to nerf it. But what threat is a sub without it's payload?

    How come you guys don't think the damage a fully enchanted character does is the OP part of this whole thing? Not just TR, but any class with rank 7 enchantments will kill you in seconds. (sure sure, not the DC).

    Seriously, all these enraged people are barking up the wrong tree, and then cryptic dropping in once in a while saying they are listening to the feedback of 'the players' is not helping.
  • Options
    capgarnascapgarnas Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 500 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    huckaseven wrote: »
    if 3 people on a node cant find the rogue, then its not the rogue beeing OP, its those 3 beeing stupid

    sorry, but thats how it is

    Actually this is how its done. You saying X3lade only plays against nubs and newbs. Suggest you post that on his build post. Pinkfont tried bull****ting about his build too until he had to counter his claims personally.

    http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=XylOlYBCGP0&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DXylOlYBCGP0

    Theres more here too

    http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?324111-Build-Guide-quot-INT-Rogue-quot-Perma-Stealth-Build

    Huck i think your a few clowns short of a circus....
  • Options
    huckasevenhuckaseven Banned Users Posts: 470 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    capgarnas wrote: »
    You saying X3lade only plays against nubs and newbs.

    yes, im saying this and the amount of whinethreads complaining about stealth just prooves this even more
  • Options
    sh4dowrunn3rsh4dowrunn3r Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 17 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    sangrine wrote: »
    How do you hit a rogue while he is invisible?
    Very easily. You can also dodge TR's stuns and nukes just by listening for them. Remember that pvp isn't deathmatch it's domination... if rogue is capturing/contesting point you know where he is and melee classes skills are so bugged they hit like 3m in wide forward arc so it's impossible to miss even or use ranged classes aoe or damaging aura lots of classes get.
    You also see rogue if you're looking at him/not away from him in shadowy outline - he's not invisible just sneaking.

    And being able to throw a knife or stab someone while he doesn't see you is ok... rogue is creaping in the shadows and throwing knifes at big stupid guys with huge muscles ... but when they manage to pin him down he's toast.

    In order to perma stealth TR needs to sacrifice 2/3 of his encounters towards that goal ... he's left with 1 encounter and at wills. The really big crits happen when using daily which increases damage by 60 % for a few seconds... it's not like other classes don't have super dailies to nuke with.

    Either all classes spike damage needs to be nerfed so no 1-3 hits happen at all in game or rogue is fine compared to truly scary classes (gwf,gf).
  • Options
    sangrinesangrine Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 575 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    I already edited my post to remove some incorrect info.

    1. A shadow is not stealth. Turning into a shadow in a bright room is a form of invisibility.
    What do you think stealth is? A ghostly shadow?

    2. Let's suppose a rogue is standing in the middle of a room while cloaked. Let's suppose I know where he is standing. how do I aim at him and hit him while he is a shadow? I am a CW. I want to hit him with my magic missle, from a distance.
  • Options
    capgarnascapgarnas Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 500 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    huckaseven wrote: »
    yes, im saying this and the amount of whinethreads complaining about stealth just prooves this even more

    What i most surprised about your post is youve finally stopped saying learn to play. Big call of yours saying X3lade plays only against nubs and scrubs. I dont think you cant back it up.
  • Options
    capgarnascapgarnas Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 500 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    sangrine wrote: »
    I already edited my post to remove some incorrect info.

    1. A shadow is not stealth. Turning into a shadow in a bright room is a form of invisibility.
    What do you think stealth is? A ghostly shadow?

    2. Let's suppose a rogue is standing in the middle of a room while cloaked. Let's suppose I know where he is standing. how do I aim at him and hit him while he is a shadow? I am a CW. I want to hit him with my magic missle, from a distance.

    Explain how a CW does that as their health gets chewed down. Sure teleport and teleport how about just leave and dont contest.

    I can face the class being the go to kill for DC GWF GF TR and other CWs but to have to put up with a well geared perma stealth cos spamming rogue is too much to ask.
Sign In or Register to comment.