What a lot of people isn't called theorycrafting. You're coming to conclusions with false premises. That's the capital sin of theorycrafting. "Balance" as you define it doesn't exist in PvE. You min/max: get enough def to live, and rest dps. Conversely, if you are tanking, you focus on maximum defense with enough dps to keep aggro.
You didn't understand my point of compounding multipliers. ANY dps increase becomes a pretty substancial increase because of them. Stalwart is an increase in dps, therefore, argueing that the difference isn't as big as you want it to be is pointless. If you know basic algebra then you don't need to "estimate". Specially when like I said, your estimations lead to false premises.
I'm not sick of theorycrafting, I obviously like theorycrafting. I'm sick of people speaking BS with the pretense of theorycrafting.
No, those are my stats. If it wasn't obvious, I was saying there's no way you will get higher dps values than with my set.
It is theory crafting because you have to factor in HOW people are playing GFs.
In THEORY doubling your power with the Stalwart set is nice, but HOW OFTEN do you get the full stacks?
HOW many stacks will you have on average in PvP combat situations and HOW does that compare to the natural power that Timeless has?
HOW does it compare to the average crit bonus you get during a PvP session from Timeless?
You haven't answered any of these questions, all you keep saying is Stalwart gives bonus power and DPS, therefore Stalwart is better. You are trying to assume Stalwart will always have optimal conditions and that isn't going to happen. And when you do have max stacks, you might not ever get a chance to take advantage of that bonus because you're dead/stunned/can't retaliate in time before your stacks start falling off.
Timeless already has 1200+ power and Reckless Assault doubles that. Thus, Timeless acts as if it has 2400 power, meaning by DEFAULT it already has almost 2 "Stalwart stacks" off the bat. Therefore, if I am attacking my enemy first, I get the full bonus of my ~2 stacks, full health for Tenes, and it's VERY likely I will be able to max out my Timeless crit stacks and follow up with the full bonus active.
Now let's THEORIZE and tell me how the Stalwarts bonus applies to your playstyle in PvP without worrying about specific numbers that mean nothing unless you APPLY them to game situations.
It is theory crafting because you have to factor in HOW people are playing GFs.
In THEORY doubling your power with the Stalwart set is nice, but HOW OFTEN do you get the full stacks?
HOW many stacks will you have on average in PvP combat situations and HOW does that compare to the natural power that Timeless has?
HOW does it compare to the average crit bonus you get during a PvP session from Timeless?
You haven't answered any of these questions, all you keep saying is Stalwart gives bonus power and DPS, therefore Stalwart is better. You are trying to assume Stalwart will always have optimal conditions and that isn't going to happen. And when you do have max stacks, you might not ever get a chance to take advantage of that bonus because you're dead/stunned/can't retaliate in time before your stacks start falling off.
Timeless already has 1200+ power and Reckless Assault doubles that. Thus, Timeless acts as if it has 2400 power, meaning by DEFAULT it already has almost 2 "Stalwart stacks" off the bat. Therefore, if I am attacking my enemy first, I get the full bonus of my ~2 stacks, full health for Tenes, and it's VERY likely I will be able to max out my Timeless crit stacks and follow up with the full bonus active.
Now let's THEORIZE and tell me how the Stalwarts bonus applies to your playstyle in PvP without worrying about specific numbers that mean nothing unless you APPLY them to game situations.
I have no problem building stalwart stacks in pvp. We're not rogues... People generally see you coming and will start attacking you when you run towards them.
It is theory crafting because you have to factor in HOW people are playing GFs.
In THEORY doubling your power with the Stalwart set is nice, but HOW OFTEN do you get the full stacks?
HOW many stacks will you have on average in PvP combat situations and HOW does that compare to the natural power that Timeless has?
HOW does it compare to the average crit bonus you get during a PvP session from Timeless?
You haven't answered any of these questions, all you keep saying is Stalwart gives bonus power and DPS, therefore Stalwart is better. You are trying to assume Stalwart will always have optimal conditions and that isn't going to happen. And when you do have max stacks, you might not ever get a chance to take advantage of that bonus because you're dead/stunned/can't retaliate in time before your stacks start falling off.
Timeless already has 1200+ power and Reckless Assault doubles that. Thus, Timeless acts as if it has 2400 power, meaning by DEFAULT it already has almost 2 "Stalwart stacks" off the bat. Therefore, if I am attacking my enemy first, I get the full bonus of my ~2 stacks, full health for Tenes, and it's VERY likely I will be able to max out my Timeless crit stacks and follow up with the full bonus active.
Now let's THEORIZE and tell me how the Stalwarts bonus applies to your playstyle in PvP without worrying about specific numbers that mean nothing unless you APPLY them to game situations.
This discussion was never about PvP.
Stacks are always up in PvE except in select few boss fights.
I just ****ing told you math shows that crit from Timeless is considerably worse than the benefit from Stalwart. MATH, not bull**** asumptions.
Stacks take 8 seconds to fall off, time in which you do get hit. Again, stop theorycrafting on false premises.
I UNDERSTAND THIS. 7500 power - 2500 = 5000 power > 1350 crit + say 300-400 recovery.
This discussion was never about PvP. Don't randomly mention PvP. I have said MANY, MANY, MANY times that Stalwart is not what I would use for PvP. It's not Timeless either. Shadow Wolf helm, Icefall Gauntlets, Armor of Insanity, Piercing Valiant boots.
I know you're gonna say it was always about PvP. However, you talked about concepts that pertain to PvE and PvP. INCORRECT CONCEPTS.
Stacks are always up in PvE except in select few boss fights.
I just ****ing told you math shows that crit from Timeless is considerably worse than the benefit from Stalwart. MATH, not bull**** asumptions.
Stacks take 8 seconds to fall off, time in which you do get hit. Again, stop theorycrafting on false premises.
I UNDERSTAND THIS. 7500 power - 2500 = 5000 power > 1350 crit + say 300-400 recovery.
This discussion was never about PvP. Don't randomly mention PvP. I have said MANY, MANY, MANY times that Stalwart is not what I would use for PvP. It's not Timeless either. Shadow Wolf helm, Icefall Gauntlets, Armor of Insanity, Piercing Valiant boots.
I know you're gonna say it was always about PvP. However, you talked about concepts that pertain to PvE and PvP. INCORRECT CONCEPTS.
Wow, you haven't read any of my posts have you? I've been talking about PvP from the start. My FIRST post on this topic:
I still don't see the allure of Stalwarts - it's not like you have that full bonus up all the time. In PvE, sure, but PvP I'm not standing around letting the other team pound on me 5 times in a row. Getting hit = lower hp = lower damage from Tenebrous. Additionally, I'm often the first to attack - lunge, then follow up with frontline, bull rush, etc., meaning I get 0 effect from the set bonus. Maybe they hit me once or twice so I get a little bonus, but then it drops right off again.
Timeless may not be able to get the best offensive stats compared to mixing/matching, but it has the strongest and most rounded stats on it of any 4-piece set: Power, Recovery, Defense, Deflection. I've fought against GFs using Stalwarts and I really see no difference. A crit is going to hurt me way more than some very situational Stalwart damage.
And another:
If a CW CCs you and then a rogue dazes you, I think there's a good chance you're dead regardless of what set you're using (against good players) I prefer to strike first and not let them have a chance to kill me. Stalwart requires you to be hit many times, increasing your risk of death, and more often than not you won't have the full bonus when attacking. Timeless bonus is also much easier to maintain and max out and synergies well with the GF playstyle (3 encounter combos, full tenebrous procs). Against many of the good players I've played against, your guard will be gone in about 2-3 hits.
And yet another:
I think all this goes to show that it really doesn't matter what armor set you're using so as long as you have tene enchantments. The impact in PvP between the sets are so small because there's only so much customization you can do without being able to use your offensive slots for anything but tenes. Both have advantages and disadvantages and fit difference play styles.
I AGREE that Stalwart is better for PvE, but that's not what I'm talking about. For God sakes, if you would have read my **** posts you would have seen that the conversation has been about PvP for the last couple of pages. How about you read the content of the posts instead of just fixating on numbers and we could have avoided this pointless argument.
You missed my entire point. You are talking about concepts pertaining to PvP AND PvE which are completely wrong. There's many valid reasons against Stalwart in PvP, however a lot of them aren't the ones you stated.
It's partly my fault for not making it obvious that I wasn't talking about the PvP aspects of your post, but your faults still exist.
You missed my entire point. You are talking about concepts pertaining to PvP AND PvE which are completely wrong. There's many valid reasons against Stalwart in PvP, however a lot of them aren't the ones you stated.
It's partly my fault for not making it obvious that I wasn't talking about the PvP aspects of your post, but your faults still exist.
I've been making all my points for PvP, but I'm sure many also would apply to PvE as well simply due to mechanics.
Obviously it's easy to maintain full stacks on Stalwart in PvE, but not so easy and logistical in PvP. Increased damage of Stalwarts trumps any crit bonus one would get from Timeless in PvE as well (unless you aren't able to keep threat), but I don't agree that applies to PvP under normal play conditions.
Since I was estimating/guestimating damage based on other posts, I could easily be off on some of my numbers. For PvP, I don't think I was off enough to make any difference on how I believe Timeless synergizes better, but that's just my opinion.
I've been making all my points for PvP, but I'm sure many also would apply to PvE as well simply due to mechanics.
Obviously it's easy to maintain full stacks on Stalwart in PvE, but not so easy and logistical in PvP. Increased damage of Stalwarts trumps any crit bonus one would get from Timeless in PvE as well (unless you aren't able to keep threat), but I don't agree that applies to PvP under normal play conditions.
Since I was estimating/guestimating damage based on other posts, I could easily be off on some of my numbers. For PvP, I don't think I was off enough to make any difference on how I believe Timeless synergizes better, but that's just my opinion.
Yes, Timeless synergizes much better with pvp, however, guestimating (if you can even call it that) just detracts from your posts. All that should be said and needs to be said is the following: Stalwart has the potential to do more dps (keep in mind the word *more*, it leaves no place for subjectiveness), however, in PvP that potential is not easily reached and because of that Stalwart isn't optimal.
Yes, Timeless synergizes much better with pvp, however, guestimating (if you can even call it that) just detracts from your posts. All that should be said and needs to be said is the following: Stalwart has the potential to do more dps (keep in mind the word *more*, it leaves no place for subjectiveness), however, in PvP that potential is not easily reached and because of that Stalwart isn't optimal.
I like it.
The issue comes when there is a differing opinion, and that's when the quasi-numbers come into play, but if that's not necessary I'm all for it.
The issue comes when there is a differing opinion, and that's when the quasi-numbers come into play, but if that's not necessary I'm all for it.
Pseudo-math is fine when it's correct, but a lot of times people say things like "500 damage isn't that much", I prefer critting 5% more of the time. They have no idea how much critting 5% more even changes or how much 500 damage really is. Glad we found a point of agreement though. I'm just a bit worked up because people are repeating baseless arguements over and over, maybe yours wasn't even that baseless. I forgot.
Pseudo-math is fine when it's correct, but a lot of times people say things like "500 damage isn't that much", I prefer critting 5% more of the time. They have no idea how much critting 5% more even changes or how much 500 damage really is. Glad we found a point of agreement though. I'm just a bit worked up because people are repeating baseless arguements over and over, maybe yours wasn't even that baseless, I forgot.
I'm glad as well, especially since it ends up we were in agreement after all. I can certainly understand the frustration when people throw out numbers that have no basis and use that to prove their point. Hopefully mine weren't that far off to put me in that category.
Wow, Almost got burned reading all this because of all the flame going on...
Syno one HUGe thing I JUST realized thanks to Envy...
Timeless ONLY builds off encounters... So lets think about this.. You cant play with knight challenge since you need 3 encounters to full stack timeless... The buff lasts for 6 seconds, the LOWEST encounter CD you have is lunging Strike at 8 seconds?
So lets say BEST case scenario, you lunging strike in (450 more crit ~3.33% more). Then Frontline, (Another 450 crit) Then Bull Rush (another 450 crit more).. Well congrats you now how 10% more crit and if your lucky youll get a crit with your next lunging strike... Once that attack is done, then what? Your stacks will fall off so in reality while at max benefit you had 3 stacks (10% more crit) you dont have the full benefit for all your attacks AND it really only helps your at wills since you used encounters to build UP your damage..
You can do the math this way on the FIRST attack you have NO benefits. On the Second encounter you get 3.33% more crit. On the third encounter you get 6.67% more crit and its not till that FORTH encounter you have the full 10% buff...
With Stalwats you dont need to rely on encounters so you CAN use knights challenge... And as a GF you WILL get hit OFTEN AND the stacks last 2 more seconds.. even just 1 CW DoT will full proc your stlwarts (hint: happens ALL the time.) and rogues attack SO fast, I have full stalwarts almost instantly... The only people It builds slower are other Gfs and DCs who sometimes wait to attack until you have. In BOTH cases, its a LONG fight 1v1 and you can bet ill have 5 stacks for most of it.. Who cares about GWF do they even do anything?!?
The main point of this is, my set bonus affects my encounters atleast half the time from the FIRST HIT. I can lunging strike someone right off the bat for over 10k HITs. If I do that, and plague fire lands and I start proccing Tenes, I can bull rush for another EASY 10k+ HIT all not relying on crit at all. If it crits? say bye bye...
Also, I am more tanky so I CAN stand 2v1 in some cases. In your best case scenario, you have to chain back to back encounters to get your benefit even fight to fight. For me, the buff lasts longer and I would bet I am attacked most often then I attack (especially attack using encounters).
If Timeless set benefited from ANY attack, this would be a different story since I would just cleave 3x then bull rush - lunging for GG game over. But since it only builds off encounters... I think its hands down worse.
Wow, Almost got burned reading all this because of all the flame going on...
Syno one HUGe thing I JUST realized thanks to Envy...
Timeless ONLY builds off encounters... So lets think about this.. You cant play with knight challenge since you need 3 encounters to full stack timeless... The buff lasts for 6 seconds, the LOWEST encounter CD you have is lunging Strike at 8 seconds?
So lets say BEST case scenario, you lunging strike in (450 more crit ~3.33% more). Then Frontline, (Another 450 crit) Then Bull Rush (another 450 crit more).. Well congrats you now how 10% more crit and if your lucky youll get a crit with your next lunging strike... Once that attack is done, then what? Your stacks will fall off so in reality while at max benefit you had 3 stacks (10% more crit) you dont have the full benefit for all your attacks AND it really only helps your at wills since you used encounters to build UP your damage..
You can do the math this way on the FIRST attack you have NO benefits. On the Second encounter you get 3.33% more crit. On the third encounter you get 6.67% more crit and its not till that FORTH encounter you have the full 10% buff...
With Stalwats you dont need to rely on encounters so you CAN use knights challenge... And as a GF you WILL get hit OFTEN AND the stacks last 2 more seconds.. even just 1 CW DoT will full proc your stlwarts (hint: happens ALL the time.) and rogues attack SO fast, I have full stalwarts almost instantly... The only people It builds slower are other Gfs and DCs who sometimes wait to attack until you have. In BOTH cases, its a LONG fight 1v1 and you can bet ill have 5 stacks for most of it.. Who cares about GWF do they even do anything?!?
The main point of this is, my set bonus affects my encounters atleast half the time from the FIRST HIT. I can lunging strike someone right off the bat for over 10k HITs. If I do that, and plague fire lands and I start proccing Tenes, I can bull rush for another EASY 10k+ HIT all not relying on crit at all. If it crits? say bye bye...
Also, I am more tanky so I CAN stand 2v1 in some cases. In your best case scenario, you have to chain back to back encounters to get your benefit even fight to fight. For me, the buff lasts longer and I would bet I am attacked most often then I attack (especially attack using encounters).
If Timeless set benefited from ANY attack, this would be a different story since I would just cleave 3x then bull rush - lunging for GG game over. But since it only builds off encounters... I think its hands down worse.
Getting hit 5x is just as impractical as stacking Timless x3 (not quite, but close). Neither set is that good for PvP.
All hail Shadow Wolf Helm/Icefall Gauntlets/Armor of Insanity/Piercing Valiant boots.
have you compare the sets in real damage?? even on paper would be good to see a comparison in not optimal conditions and testing interesting options since apparently they are the onces that have better stats i still think at least on paper that stalwart is better overall since in fact in pvp you get hit however timeless is a good option to be the first on to star fightng XD as they mention as well both are good in optimal conditions and timeless is better for burst damage during dfirst encounter , this is basically compiling the data of all post in this topc, not sure if with your equip set o raw data you could find better results
Everything works out in the end . If it hasn't worked out yet, it isn't the end...
have you compare the sets in real damage?? even on paper would be good to see a comparison in not optimal conditions and testing interesting options since apparently they are the onces that have better stats
Honestly if it were timeless versus Sanctumlol's set up. I would pick the random pieces hands down. When its Stalwarts though I have a hard time throwing away all that power just because it is SO much damage.
As for the 5x stack Yes maybe that is not practical to have but I will bet VERY common to run the 3-4 range. In all honesty too, when your playing with a DC you WILL have 5 stacks more often AND when your truly playing "keep the point" like the game is intend and not "how many kills can I get" You will have Stalwarts up a TON too. All you have to do is sit at "2" on either map with a DC and maybe CW and you will have 5 stacks of stalwarts up in no time... 1v1 - id also rather have stalwarts too... Only in PUGs would I prefer timeless and even then I would pick the random pieces of gear.
The reason I honestly thing Stalwarts edges out sanctumlol's gear is because the tankiness of Stalwarts is only slightly lower than Grand set and REALLY can make a difference in PVP in premades
So with the plaguefire nerf Sanctums will you be leaning towards vorpal?
Vorpal ONLY works if you are ditching tene enchants. Plaguefire is still best for tene enchants. Vorpal will do best when you try to optimize crit which is hard for a GF to do.
I would imagine that if you wanted to min/max the benefit of vorpal, you would run sanctums gear set up with rank 8-9 crit/arp enchants along with the vorpal. That would make you crit hard and often but even still... youll be squishy and wont have tene enchants...
Wow, Almost got burned reading all this because of all the flame going on...
Syno one HUGe thing I JUST realized thanks to Envy...
Timeless ONLY builds off encounters... So lets think about this.. You cant play with knight challenge since you need 3 encounters to full stack timeless... The buff lasts for 6 seconds, the LOWEST encounter CD you have is lunging Strike at 8 seconds?
So lets say BEST case scenario, you lunging strike in (450 more crit ~3.33% more). Then Frontline, (Another 450 crit) Then Bull Rush (another 450 crit more).. Well congrats you now how 10% more crit and if your lucky youll get a crit with your next lunging strike... Once that attack is done, then what? Your stacks will fall off so in reality while at max benefit you had 3 stacks (10% more crit) you dont have the full benefit for all your attacks AND it really only helps your at wills since you used encounters to build UP your damage..
You can do the math this way on the FIRST attack you have NO benefits. On the Second encounter you get 3.33% more crit. On the third encounter you get 6.67% more crit and its not till that FORTH encounter you have the full 10% buff...
With Stalwats you dont need to rely on encounters so you CAN use knights challenge... And as a GF you WILL get hit OFTEN AND the stacks last 2 more seconds.. even just 1 CW DoT will full proc your stlwarts (hint: happens ALL the time.) and rogues attack SO fast, I have full stalwarts almost instantly... The only people It builds slower are other Gfs and DCs who sometimes wait to attack until you have. In BOTH cases, its a LONG fight 1v1 and you can bet ill have 5 stacks for most of it.. Who cares about GWF do they even do anything?!?
The main point of this is, my set bonus affects my encounters atleast half the time from the FIRST HIT. I can lunging strike someone right off the bat for over 10k HITs. If I do that, and plague fire lands and I start proccing Tenes, I can bull rush for another EASY 10k+ HIT all not relying on crit at all. If it crits? say bye bye...
Also, I am more tanky so I CAN stand 2v1 in some cases. In your best case scenario, you have to chain back to back encounters to get your benefit even fight to fight. For me, the buff lasts longer and I would bet I am attacked most often then I attack (especially attack using encounters).
If Timeless set benefited from ANY attack, this would be a different story since I would just cleave 3x then bull rush - lunging for GG game over. But since it only builds off encounters... I think its hands down worse.
Knight's Challenge is an encounter power, so it would trigger Timeless. Redo those equations But I don't use Knight's Challenge - I think it's gimmicky and dangerous to use and unless paired with your other 2 encounter powers, useless until they go active again.
My cooldowns are lower than that: 6.1 seconds for Lunging Strike, 9.2 for Bull Rush, 15.3 for Frontline Assault (remember the higher Recovery from Timeless + I'm currently running a lot of Recovery jewelry - just haven't had AD to switch it up).
My normal attack would be Lunging Strike, Bull Rush, Threatening Rush, Frontline Assault. After that I Cleave 2+ times, Lunging Strike again or Indomitable Strength. I'm getting a good amount of hits in with full crit bonus and lots with 2 stacks and reapplying the third stack. But I'm guaranteed to get the full bonus and be able to take advantage of it right off the bat.
My fights don't last very long - I either kill them fast and not let them hit me often, or I get attacked from all sides and die/limp away. Against average players your fight might last longer, but many good players are using Tenes and good builds. Get hit a few times and your guard is gone and your health is already down.
You mention that you'll have a few stacks at any given time - Timeless's inherent 1200+ power means your have an effective ~2500 due to Reckless Attacker, which is almost 2 stacks without having to do anything. So wouldn't that mean that you'd have to have at least 2 stacks from Stalwart just to be even with Timeless?
Anyways, it comes down to playstyle and synergy. Timeless puts you in control of how you apply the bonuses, while Stalwart is dependent on what's happened so far in the battle. I prefer to be in control of my bonuses and not subjected to being in the thick of battle, because quite often I can finish someone off without getting hit via a stunlock chain, and Stalwart isn't going to do anything for me there.
So with the plaguefire nerf Sanctums will you be leaning towards vorpal?
I have stopped playing the game for a while, but when I played, I really only played with a set group. I think dps GF is the perfect GPF carrier. We have the lowest crit%. Basically, I would be the dedicated GPF user. GPF gives you roughly a 10-17% dmg increase(depending on DR% of mob you're fighting).
I'll show the math for vorpal with 20% crit:
No Vorpal: 1*(1-.2)+(1+.75)*.2 = 1.15
Perfect Vorpal: 1*(1-.2)+(1+.75+.45)*.2 = 1.24
If a Perfect Vorpal was 45% critdmg (which I doubt it is) it would still only give you 9% dmg increase which is worse than the worst case scenario for GPF.
Also, a Perfect Vorpal is gonna cost you a ****ton of AD:
My normal attack would be Lunging Strike, Bull Rush, Threatening Rush, Frontline Assault. After that I Cleave 2+ times, Lunging Strike again or Indomitable Strength. I'm getting a good amount of hits in with full crit bonus and lots with 2 stacks and reapplying the third stack. But I'm guaranteed to get the full bonus and be able to take advantage of it right off the bat.
My fights don't last very long - I either kill them fast and not let them hit me often, or I get attacked from all sides and die/limp away. Against average players your fight might last longer, but many good players are using Tenes and good builds. Get hit a few times and your guard is gone and your health is already down.
You mention that you'll have a few stacks at any given time - Timeless's inherent 1200+ power means your have an effective ~2500 due to Reckless Attacker, which is almost 2 stacks without having to do anything. So wouldn't that mean that you'd have to have at least 2 stacks from Stalwart just to be even with Timeless?
Anyways, it comes down to playstyle and synergy. Timeless puts you in control of how you apply the bonuses, while Stalwart is dependent on what's happened so far in the battle. I prefer to be in control of my bonuses and not subjected to being in the thick of battle, because quite often I can finish someone off without getting hit via a stunlock chain, and Stalwart isn't going to do anything for me there.
1) SO with your first lunging strike, you gain ZERO benefits from timeless then on bull rush you have 3% more crit then your threatening rush you have 6.66% more crit, then your frontline you have 6.66% more crit. You cleave 2x at 10% more crit and lunge again with 10% more crit.
So in total Attacks made with 0 benefit: Lunging Strike
3.33% more crit: Bull Rush
6.66% more crit: Threatening Rush/Frontline Surge
10% more crit: 2 cleaves and 1 lunging strike. (2 cleaves @ 10% more crit arent much, 1 lunging at 10% more crit is a nice number)
So what substantial gains did you get from timeless? a REAL short version would be 6.66% more crit on frontline surge and 10% more crit on 1 lunging under optimal conditions? Doesnt sound like a big boost in dps... I would rather have a mix n match set that can give me almost the exact same benefits with no build up that will give you greater benefit on EVERY ATTACK YOU MADE except your 2 cleaves and final lunging (which it would then be a toss up arp vs crit)
Total TIME it takes do do this combo at minimum is your 6.1 CD on lunging which seems fair but look at what you REALLY gained...the first lunging strike had NO benefit, the bull rush had almost none as well. Your using half of your 4 encounters with almost no benefit and THEN your getting the benefit for the last two encounters..
With Stalwarts you are MUCH tankier and CAN last longer in battles. Also, again against a rogue or CW ill have FULL stacks almost instantly. How many times are you choked in PVP? Thats a full stack. How many times are you attacked by a rogue? Thats a full stack... With your combo, you could easily get choked or dazed halfway through your 6.1 second combo. Your pretty much done if that happens just like you said "My fights don't last very long - I either kill them fast and not let them hit me often, or I get attacked from all sides and die/limp away."
When you have more defense/deflection you can take much more hits and I can tell you from experience time and time again, I come out of that CC/Daze and atleast 1 person WILL die.. It takes NO build up and 100% of my abilities get 7500 more power.... It synergises REALLY well with soulforged too. 3 seconds of immunity with 5 stacks of stalwarts? Thats enough to 2 shot some1. I dont think ANY decent player will have a problem killing some1 when they are not being attacked, its the players that can take a beating and come back to win the fight that makes a difference. Even if I get NO stacks built up, guess what that means to me? Full tene hits for 5400 pure damage every 5 seconds... That plus knights challenge = insta GG on a DC.
Just like you said, if you can finish them in a perma stun lock, stalwarts wont help you, but ill just say this, you dont NEED it to help you lol. I can kill in the same number of moves that you can without the more pwr from timeless AND without the 10% crit bonus... It doesnt make a huge difference.
If thats how you prefer to play you will honestly see a bigger difference with the mixnmatch set that requires no build up period and has more arp for slightly less crit.
Think about it this way, when you are attacked/CCd/Dazed w.e your health drops AND your not building crit meaning your tene is doing less damage and your not getting timeless benefits. When I am hit, I take less damage than you I then deal more damage via stalwarts if my tene is getting a small nerf from less HP.
In premade battlegrounds youll almost never have a 1v1 where you 100-0 some1. In pugs yes, itll happen all the time.
If you mix n match pieces you can get (from gear alone)
Arp: 1514
Pwr: 2889 (doubles from passive)
Crit: 1664
versus timeless:
Arp: 698
Pwr: 3177 (doubles)
Crit: 2333 (at FULL stacks)
But if we just wen through and averaged your encounters 1 @ 0%, 1@ 3.33%, 1@6.66% and 1@10% thats an AVERAGE crit % bonus of what? 5%? So a BETTER way to look at your timeless is maybe a flat 5% more crit? + a little for the at wills so well round to 6%. That is more like 810 crit rating instead of 1350 crit rating putting the set comparisons to:
M&M:
Arp: 1514
Pwr: 2889 (doubles from passive)
Crit: 1664
versus timeless:
Arp: 698
Pwr: 3177 (doubles)
Crit: 1793 (average)
So lets see, your trading 816 more arp for what? 288 more base power and 129 more crit? I dont see the benefit there..
Im not saying timeless is bad since it WILL have its moments where you shine. Im ONLY saying that on average the stalwarts will perform better and on average the mix n match pieces will perform better... You can still rock pugs in timeless + tene dont get me wrong!
1) SO with your first lunging strike, you gain ZERO benefits from timeless then on bull rush you have 3% more crit then your threatening rush you have 6.66% more crit, then your frontline you have 6.66% more crit. You cleave 2x at 10% more crit and lunge again with 10% more crit.
So in total Attacks made with 0 benefit: Lunging Strike
3.33% more crit: Bull Rush
6.66% more crit: Threatening Rush/Frontline Surge
10% more crit: 2 cleaves and 1 lunging strike. (2 cleaves @ 10% more crit arent much, 1 lunging at 10% more crit is a nice number)
So what substantial gains did you get from timeless? a REAL short version would be 6.66% more crit on frontline surge and 10% more crit on 1 lunging under optimal conditions? Doesnt sound like a big boost in dps... I would rather have a mix n match set that can give me almost the exact same benefits with no build up that will give you greater benefit on EVERY ATTACK YOU MADE except your 2 cleaves and final lunging (which it would then be a toss up arp vs crit)
I'm not sure of the answer to this question, but does the crit bonus from the set bonus apply as soon as an encounter power is used? If so, then I'm getting the the crit bonus on the Lunging Strike. Any way to determine this? I'm assuming it does as activation comes before effect of the encounter power.
Total TIME it takes do do this combo at minimum is your 6.1 CD on lunging which seems fair but look at what you REALLY gained...the first lunging strike had NO benefit, the bull rush had almost none as well. Your using half of your 4 encounters with almost no benefit and THEN your getting the benefit for the last two encounters..
Once again this only applies if the crit bonus is not applied for the first attack.
With Stalwarts you are MUCH tankier and CAN last longer in battles. Also, again against a rogue or CW ill have FULL stacks almost instantly. How many times are you choked in PVP? Thats a full stack. How many times are you attacked by a rogue? Thats a full stack... With your combo, you could easily get choked or dazed halfway through your 6.1 second combo. Your pretty much done if that happens just like you said "My fights don't last very long - I either kill them fast and not let them hit me often, or I get attacked from all sides and die/limp away."
Come on now, Stalwarts is not THAT much tankier. Stalwarts has 514 more Defense and 564 more Deflection than Timeless. (EDIT: I forgot about Stalwart's +400 Defense bonus, but also Timeless's +450 Deflection bonus and +1 AC, but I still think that doesn't change anything defensewise). That is not going to make any noticeable difference. You might get full stacks against a Rogue or CW, but your guard will be gone and you probably won't proc full tene's due to loss of health. Meanwhile, I already have inherent power on Timeless so it doesn't require me to take damage to activate, and my crit bonus can be procced regardless of whether I'm being choked by a CW or attacked by a Rogue.
When you have more defense/deflection you can take much more hits and I can tell you from experience time and time again, I come out of that CC/Daze and atleast 1 person WILL die.. It takes NO build up and 100% of my abilities get 7500 more power.... It synergises REALLY well with soulforged too. 3 seconds of immunity with 5 stacks of stalwarts? Thats enough to 2 shot some1. I dont think ANY decent player will have a problem killing some1 when they are not being attacked, its the players that can take a beating and come back to win the fight that makes a difference. Even if I get NO stacks built up, guess what that means to me? Full tene hits for 5400 pure damage every 5 seconds... That plus knights challenge = insta GG on a DC.
Like I mentioned above, it's not enough extra Defense and Deflection to make a noticeable difference. You can't take any more "of a beating" from the extra defensive stats.
Just like you said, if you can finish them in a perma stun lock, stalwarts wont help you, but ill just say this, you dont NEED it to help you lol. I can kill in the same number of moves that you can without the more pwr from timeless AND without the 10% crit bonus... It doesnt make a huge difference.
If thats how you prefer to play you will honestly see a bigger difference with the mixnmatch set that requires no build up period and has more arp for slightly less crit.
The mixmatch set can put out more damage, no argument there, but it suffers on defensive stats and recovery. I like to keep a more well-rounded gear set active.
Think about it this way, when you are attacked/CCd/Dazed w.e your health drops AND your not building crit meaning your tene is doing less damage and your not getting timeless benefits. When I am hit, I take less damage than you I then deal more damage via stalwarts if my tene is getting a small nerf from less HP.
In premade battlegrounds youll almost never have a 1v1 where you 100-0 some1. In pugs yes, itll happen all the time.
Remember, I already have a "virtual" 2 Stalwart stacks due to the extra 1200+ power (doubled to 2400+ for Reckless) inherent on Timeless. I get that damage bonus without any conditions needing to be met, and that's before I even think about getting any crit bonuses. And that means that compared to Timeless with no stacks, you're attacking for less damage. You need 2 stacks to equal Timeless with no stacks.
But what I keep saying is that it DOESN'T MATTER what set you use so as long as you're using Tene's. The difference between sets is negligible. Stalwart doesn't do massive amounts of damage over Timeless and vice versa - the sets are for different playstyles.
Great guide, has made my time as a gf alot more viable, just a few questions though, i just used the free respec for after patch and have my last 5 feat points hanging at crushing ping 5/5 vs Battle Trample 5/5. Has anyone done any theory craft on this? does crushing pin buff apple after the bullscharge, frontline surge, kneebreaker? And does someone affected by kneebreaker take battle trample damage for the whole duration?
Secondly, i screwed up my base ability scores ending up with 23 dex lol, which is 13% dmg ignored, does that mean i only need to have an additional 9 % from ArP?
Thx again for guide.
Great guide, has made my time as a gf alot more viable, just a few questions though, i just used the free respec for after patch and have my last 5 feat points hanging at crushing ping 5/5 vs Battle Trample 5/5. Has anyone done any theory craft on this? does crushing pin buff apple after the bullscharge, frontline surge, kneebreaker? And does someone affected by kneebreaker take battle trample damage for the whole duration?
Secondly, i screwed up my base ability scores ending up with 23 dex lol, which is 13% dmg ignored, does that mean i only need to have an additional 9 % from ArP?
Thx again for guide.
I would recommend Crushing Pin over Battle Trample if that's the choice you're looking at.
Comments
It is theory crafting because you have to factor in HOW people are playing GFs.
In THEORY doubling your power with the Stalwart set is nice, but HOW OFTEN do you get the full stacks?
HOW many stacks will you have on average in PvP combat situations and HOW does that compare to the natural power that Timeless has?
HOW does it compare to the average crit bonus you get during a PvP session from Timeless?
You haven't answered any of these questions, all you keep saying is Stalwart gives bonus power and DPS, therefore Stalwart is better. You are trying to assume Stalwart will always have optimal conditions and that isn't going to happen. And when you do have max stacks, you might not ever get a chance to take advantage of that bonus because you're dead/stunned/can't retaliate in time before your stacks start falling off.
Timeless already has 1200+ power and Reckless Assault doubles that. Thus, Timeless acts as if it has 2400 power, meaning by DEFAULT it already has almost 2 "Stalwart stacks" off the bat. Therefore, if I am attacking my enemy first, I get the full bonus of my ~2 stacks, full health for Tenes, and it's VERY likely I will be able to max out my Timeless crit stacks and follow up with the full bonus active.
Now let's THEORIZE and tell me how the Stalwarts bonus applies to your playstyle in PvP without worrying about specific numbers that mean nothing unless you APPLY them to game situations.
I have no problem building stalwart stacks in pvp. We're not rogues... People generally see you coming and will start attacking you when you run towards them.
Stacks are always up in PvE except in select few boss fights.
I just ****ing told you math shows that crit from Timeless is considerably worse than the benefit from Stalwart. MATH, not bull**** asumptions.
Stacks take 8 seconds to fall off, time in which you do get hit. Again, stop theorycrafting on false premises.
I UNDERSTAND THIS. 7500 power - 2500 = 5000 power > 1350 crit + say 300-400 recovery.
This discussion was never about PvP. Don't randomly mention PvP. I have said MANY, MANY, MANY times that Stalwart is not what I would use for PvP. It's not Timeless either. Shadow Wolf helm, Icefall Gauntlets, Armor of Insanity, Piercing Valiant boots.
I know you're gonna say it was always about PvP. However, you talked about concepts that pertain to PvE and PvP. INCORRECT CONCEPTS.
Wow, you haven't read any of my posts have you? I've been talking about PvP from the start. My FIRST post on this topic:
And another:
And yet another:
I AGREE that Stalwart is better for PvE, but that's not what I'm talking about. For God sakes, if you would have read my **** posts you would have seen that the conversation has been about PvP for the last couple of pages. How about you read the content of the posts instead of just fixating on numbers and we could have avoided this pointless argument.
It's partly my fault for not making it obvious that I wasn't talking about the PvP aspects of your post, but your faults still exist.
I've been making all my points for PvP, but I'm sure many also would apply to PvE as well simply due to mechanics.
Obviously it's easy to maintain full stacks on Stalwart in PvE, but not so easy and logistical in PvP. Increased damage of Stalwarts trumps any crit bonus one would get from Timeless in PvE as well (unless you aren't able to keep threat), but I don't agree that applies to PvP under normal play conditions.
Since I was estimating/guestimating damage based on other posts, I could easily be off on some of my numbers. For PvP, I don't think I was off enough to make any difference on how I believe Timeless synergizes better, but that's just my opinion.
Yes, Timeless synergizes much better with pvp, however, guestimating (if you can even call it that) just detracts from your posts. All that should be said and needs to be said is the following: Stalwart has the potential to do more dps (keep in mind the word *more*, it leaves no place for subjectiveness), however, in PvP that potential is not easily reached and because of that Stalwart isn't optimal.
I like it.
The issue comes when there is a differing opinion, and that's when the quasi-numbers come into play, but if that's not necessary I'm all for it.
Pseudo-math is fine when it's correct, but a lot of times people say things like "500 damage isn't that much", I prefer critting 5% more of the time. They have no idea how much critting 5% more even changes or how much 500 damage really is. Glad we found a point of agreement though. I'm just a bit worked up because people are repeating baseless arguements over and over, maybe yours wasn't even that baseless. I forgot.
I'm glad as well, especially since it ends up we were in agreement after all. I can certainly understand the frustration when people throw out numbers that have no basis and use that to prove their point. Hopefully mine weren't that far off to put me in that category.
Syno one HUGe thing I JUST realized thanks to Envy...
Timeless ONLY builds off encounters... So lets think about this.. You cant play with knight challenge since you need 3 encounters to full stack timeless... The buff lasts for 6 seconds, the LOWEST encounter CD you have is lunging Strike at 8 seconds?
So lets say BEST case scenario, you lunging strike in (450 more crit ~3.33% more). Then Frontline, (Another 450 crit) Then Bull Rush (another 450 crit more).. Well congrats you now how 10% more crit and if your lucky youll get a crit with your next lunging strike... Once that attack is done, then what? Your stacks will fall off so in reality while at max benefit you had 3 stacks (10% more crit) you dont have the full benefit for all your attacks AND it really only helps your at wills since you used encounters to build UP your damage..
You can do the math this way on the FIRST attack you have NO benefits. On the Second encounter you get 3.33% more crit. On the third encounter you get 6.67% more crit and its not till that FORTH encounter you have the full 10% buff...
With Stalwats you dont need to rely on encounters so you CAN use knights challenge... And as a GF you WILL get hit OFTEN AND the stacks last 2 more seconds.. even just 1 CW DoT will full proc your stlwarts (hint: happens ALL the time.) and rogues attack SO fast, I have full stalwarts almost instantly... The only people It builds slower are other Gfs and DCs who sometimes wait to attack until you have. In BOTH cases, its a LONG fight 1v1 and you can bet ill have 5 stacks for most of it.. Who cares about GWF do they even do anything?!?
The main point of this is, my set bonus affects my encounters atleast half the time from the FIRST HIT. I can lunging strike someone right off the bat for over 10k HITs. If I do that, and plague fire lands and I start proccing Tenes, I can bull rush for another EASY 10k+ HIT all not relying on crit at all. If it crits? say bye bye...
Also, I am more tanky so I CAN stand 2v1 in some cases. In your best case scenario, you have to chain back to back encounters to get your benefit even fight to fight. For me, the buff lasts longer and I would bet I am attacked most often then I attack (especially attack using encounters).
If Timeless set benefited from ANY attack, this would be a different story since I would just cleave 3x then bull rush - lunging for GG game over. But since it only builds off encounters... I think its hands down worse.
I could not have said that better, i agree 100%
All hail Shadow Wolf Helm/Icefall Gauntlets/Armor of Insanity/Piercing Valiant boots.
have you compare the sets in real damage?? even on paper would be good to see a comparison in not optimal conditions and testing interesting options since apparently they are the onces that have better stats i still think at least on paper that stalwart is better overall since in fact in pvp you get hit however timeless is a good option to be the first on to star fightng XD as they mention as well both are good in optimal conditions and timeless is better for burst damage during dfirst encounter , this is basically compiling the data of all post in this topc, not sure if with your equip set o raw data you could find better results
Honestly if it were timeless versus Sanctumlol's set up. I would pick the random pieces hands down. When its Stalwarts though I have a hard time throwing away all that power just because it is SO much damage.
As for the 5x stack Yes maybe that is not practical to have but I will bet VERY common to run the 3-4 range. In all honesty too, when your playing with a DC you WILL have 5 stacks more often AND when your truly playing "keep the point" like the game is intend and not "how many kills can I get" You will have Stalwarts up a TON too. All you have to do is sit at "2" on either map with a DC and maybe CW and you will have 5 stacks of stalwarts up in no time... 1v1 - id also rather have stalwarts too... Only in PUGs would I prefer timeless and even then I would pick the random pieces of gear.
The reason I honestly thing Stalwarts edges out sanctumlol's gear is because the tankiness of Stalwarts is only slightly lower than Grand set and REALLY can make a difference in PVP in premades
Vorpal ONLY works if you are ditching tene enchants. Plaguefire is still best for tene enchants. Vorpal will do best when you try to optimize crit which is hard for a GF to do.
I would imagine that if you wanted to min/max the benefit of vorpal, you would run sanctums gear set up with rank 8-9 crit/arp enchants along with the vorpal. That would make you crit hard and often but even still... youll be squishy and wont have tene enchants...
Knight's Challenge is an encounter power, so it would trigger Timeless. Redo those equations
My cooldowns are lower than that: 6.1 seconds for Lunging Strike, 9.2 for Bull Rush, 15.3 for Frontline Assault (remember the higher Recovery from Timeless + I'm currently running a lot of Recovery jewelry - just haven't had AD to switch it up).
My normal attack would be Lunging Strike, Bull Rush, Threatening Rush, Frontline Assault. After that I Cleave 2+ times, Lunging Strike again or Indomitable Strength. I'm getting a good amount of hits in with full crit bonus and lots with 2 stacks and reapplying the third stack. But I'm guaranteed to get the full bonus and be able to take advantage of it right off the bat.
My fights don't last very long - I either kill them fast and not let them hit me often, or I get attacked from all sides and die/limp away. Against average players your fight might last longer, but many good players are using Tenes and good builds. Get hit a few times and your guard is gone and your health is already down.
You mention that you'll have a few stacks at any given time - Timeless's inherent 1200+ power means your have an effective ~2500 due to Reckless Attacker, which is almost 2 stacks without having to do anything. So wouldn't that mean that you'd have to have at least 2 stacks from Stalwart just to be even with Timeless?
Anyways, it comes down to playstyle and synergy. Timeless puts you in control of how you apply the bonuses, while Stalwart is dependent on what's happened so far in the battle. I prefer to be in control of my bonuses and not subjected to being in the thick of battle, because quite often I can finish someone off without getting hit via a stunlock chain, and Stalwart isn't going to do anything for me there.
I have stopped playing the game for a while, but when I played, I really only played with a set group. I think dps GF is the perfect GPF carrier. We have the lowest crit%. Basically, I would be the dedicated GPF user. GPF gives you roughly a 10-17% dmg increase(depending on DR% of mob you're fighting).
I'll show the math for vorpal with 20% crit:
No Vorpal: 1*(1-.2)+(1+.75)*.2 = 1.15
Perfect Vorpal: 1*(1-.2)+(1+.75+.45)*.2 = 1.24
If a Perfect Vorpal was 45% critdmg (which I doubt it is) it would still only give you 9% dmg increase which is worse than the worst case scenario for GPF.
Also, a Perfect Vorpal is gonna cost you a ****ton of AD:
1) SO with your first lunging strike, you gain ZERO benefits from timeless then on bull rush you have 3% more crit then your threatening rush you have 6.66% more crit, then your frontline you have 6.66% more crit. You cleave 2x at 10% more crit and lunge again with 10% more crit.
So in total Attacks made with 0 benefit: Lunging Strike
3.33% more crit: Bull Rush
6.66% more crit: Threatening Rush/Frontline Surge
10% more crit: 2 cleaves and 1 lunging strike. (2 cleaves @ 10% more crit arent much, 1 lunging at 10% more crit is a nice number)
So what substantial gains did you get from timeless? a REAL short version would be 6.66% more crit on frontline surge and 10% more crit on 1 lunging under optimal conditions? Doesnt sound like a big boost in dps... I would rather have a mix n match set that can give me almost the exact same benefits with no build up that will give you greater benefit on EVERY ATTACK YOU MADE except your 2 cleaves and final lunging (which it would then be a toss up arp vs crit)
Total TIME it takes do do this combo at minimum is your 6.1 CD on lunging which seems fair but look at what you REALLY gained...the first lunging strike had NO benefit, the bull rush had almost none as well. Your using half of your 4 encounters with almost no benefit and THEN your getting the benefit for the last two encounters..
With Stalwarts you are MUCH tankier and CAN last longer in battles. Also, again against a rogue or CW ill have FULL stacks almost instantly. How many times are you choked in PVP? Thats a full stack. How many times are you attacked by a rogue? Thats a full stack... With your combo, you could easily get choked or dazed halfway through your 6.1 second combo. Your pretty much done if that happens just like you said "My fights don't last very long - I either kill them fast and not let them hit me often, or I get attacked from all sides and die/limp away."
When you have more defense/deflection you can take much more hits and I can tell you from experience time and time again, I come out of that CC/Daze and atleast 1 person WILL die.. It takes NO build up and 100% of my abilities get 7500 more power.... It synergises REALLY well with soulforged too. 3 seconds of immunity with 5 stacks of stalwarts? Thats enough to 2 shot some1. I dont think ANY decent player will have a problem killing some1 when they are not being attacked, its the players that can take a beating and come back to win the fight that makes a difference. Even if I get NO stacks built up, guess what that means to me? Full tene hits for 5400 pure damage every 5 seconds... That plus knights challenge = insta GG on a DC.
Just like you said, if you can finish them in a perma stun lock, stalwarts wont help you, but ill just say this, you dont NEED it to help you lol. I can kill in the same number of moves that you can without the more pwr from timeless AND without the 10% crit bonus... It doesnt make a huge difference.
If thats how you prefer to play you will honestly see a bigger difference with the mixnmatch set that requires no build up period and has more arp for slightly less crit.
Think about it this way, when you are attacked/CCd/Dazed w.e your health drops AND your not building crit meaning your tene is doing less damage and your not getting timeless benefits. When I am hit, I take less damage than you I then deal more damage via stalwarts if my tene is getting a small nerf from less HP.
In premade battlegrounds youll almost never have a 1v1 where you 100-0 some1. In pugs yes, itll happen all the time.
The Mixnmatch set versus Timeless
If you mix n match pieces you can get (from gear alone)
Arp: 1514
Pwr: 2889 (doubles from passive)
Crit: 1664
versus timeless:
Arp: 698
Pwr: 3177 (doubles)
Crit: 2333 (at FULL stacks)
But if we just wen through and averaged your encounters 1 @ 0%, 1@ 3.33%, 1@6.66% and 1@10% thats an AVERAGE crit % bonus of what? 5%? So a BETTER way to look at your timeless is maybe a flat 5% more crit? + a little for the at wills so well round to 6%. That is more like 810 crit rating instead of 1350 crit rating putting the set comparisons to:
M&M:
Arp: 1514
Pwr: 2889 (doubles from passive)
Crit: 1664
versus timeless:
Arp: 698
Pwr: 3177 (doubles)
Crit: 1793 (average)
So lets see, your trading 816 more arp for what? 288 more base power and 129 more crit? I dont see the benefit there..
Im not saying timeless is bad since it WILL have its moments where you shine. Im ONLY saying that on average the stalwarts will perform better and on average the mix n match pieces will perform better... You can still rock pugs in timeless + tene dont get me wrong!
I'm not sure of the answer to this question, but does the crit bonus from the set bonus apply as soon as an encounter power is used? If so, then I'm getting the the crit bonus on the Lunging Strike. Any way to determine this? I'm assuming it does as activation comes before effect of the encounter power.
Once again this only applies if the crit bonus is not applied for the first attack.
Come on now, Stalwarts is not THAT much tankier. Stalwarts has 514 more Defense and 564 more Deflection than Timeless. (EDIT: I forgot about Stalwart's +400 Defense bonus, but also Timeless's +450 Deflection bonus and +1 AC, but I still think that doesn't change anything defensewise). That is not going to make any noticeable difference. You might get full stacks against a Rogue or CW, but your guard will be gone and you probably won't proc full tene's due to loss of health. Meanwhile, I already have inherent power on Timeless so it doesn't require me to take damage to activate, and my crit bonus can be procced regardless of whether I'm being choked by a CW or attacked by a Rogue.
Like I mentioned above, it's not enough extra Defense and Deflection to make a noticeable difference. You can't take any more "of a beating" from the extra defensive stats.
The mixmatch set can put out more damage, no argument there, but it suffers on defensive stats and recovery. I like to keep a more well-rounded gear set active.
Remember, I already have a "virtual" 2 Stalwart stacks due to the extra 1200+ power (doubled to 2400+ for Reckless) inherent on Timeless. I get that damage bonus without any conditions needing to be met, and that's before I even think about getting any crit bonuses. And that means that compared to Timeless with no stacks, you're attacking for less damage. You need 2 stacks to equal Timeless with no stacks.
But what I keep saying is that it DOESN'T MATTER what set you use so as long as you're using Tene's. The difference between sets is negligible. Stalwart doesn't do massive amounts of damage over Timeless and vice versa - the sets are for different playstyles.
Greater seems to give ~9% dmg on dummy for me.
Also, not sure if this has been mentioned, but Valiant 4pc = 10% dmg increase on dummies, which might make it good on single target.
They nerfed proc rate though so it's not 100% uptime like pre-patch though, so I'm not sure where it stands.
Still, a decent budget alternative if one can't afford Stalwart or Timeless.
Gods Glory to the Heroes.
TR:Anirul Corrino@Fimconte
GF:Irulan Corrino@Fimconte
Secondly, i screwed up my base ability scores ending up with 23 dex lol, which is 13% dmg ignored, does that mean i only need to have an additional 9 % from ArP?
Thx again for guide.
I would recommend Crushing Pin over Battle Trample if that's the choice you're looking at.
Thx bud, do all the prone effect moves all trigger crushing pin wether the crowd control sticks or not?