The only difference between doing it during a DD and non is that you get a guaranteed piece of loot. I mean none of the encounters are altered or anything so why should not doing it during a DD change your enjoyment.
What I'm reading isn't that you enjoy getting the gear it is actually the having. For me personally I will happily grind out dungeons in and out of DD because I enjoy doing them the gear is truly just a bonus.
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dalrionMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 27Arc User
edited June 2013
You can have reason for it but it doesnt mean it is right. Dungeons are absolutely unrewarding like i said without DD. Is this right? Of cource not. Now there is no freedom for players. We are forced to do certain activities in certain time otherwise it is wasting of our time. And who likes to be forced? No one...And if someone is just bored by some activity no event will make him to do it. So he has no reason to by in game while no event he needs is on. And this will get realy frustrating for people which can be in game only in certain time per day (and this is majority of people).
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dalrionMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 27Arc User
The only difference between doing it during a DD and non is that you get a guaranteed piece of loot. I mean none of the encounters are altered or anything so why should not doing it during a DD change your enjoyment.
What I'm reading isn't that you enjoy getting the gear it is actually the having. For me personally I will happily grind out dungeons in and out of DD because I enjoy doing them the gear is truly just a bonus.
But not enough people see it like you. Especialy for T2 dungeons. So it is much harder to find group without DD. Even in guild. And i am in big active guild :-D No DD no reason to do go for most people.
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
You can have reason for it but it doesnt mean it is right. Dungeons are absolutely unrewarding like i said without DD. Is this right? Of cource not. Now there is no freedom for players. We are forced to do certain activities in certain time otherwise it is wasting of our time. And who likes to be forced? No one...And if someone is just bored by some activity no event will make him to do it. So he has no reason to by in game while no event he needs is on. And this will get realy frustrating for people which can be in game only in certain time per day (and this is majority of people).
So let's pretend the feature was never implemented.
Dungeons would never of had never have 100% chance at guaranteed gear for each participant. The system would have been as it was without the DD event..
The delves are a bonus. An additional incentive. The event makes dungeons more rewarding.
If they never existed you would never of gotten guaranteed loot...
And in all honesty if you never got the guaranteed loot you likely would have never considered it a problematic to not receive guaranteed loot.
Dungeon Delves is a really stupid mechanic.. Dungeons are worthless to do outside of delves and bad enough for loot with delves going.
Get rid of delves and leave the chest.
You do the dugeons and never have the chance at guaranteed gear. That's how it would have been.
The delves are a bonus. An additional incentive. The event makes dungeons more rewarding.
If the never existed you would never of gotten guaranteed loot.
And in all honesty if you never got the guaranteed loot you likely would have never would have considered it a problematic to not receive guaranteed loot.
This scenario would ruin game. There are games with this but this games has more dungeons with differen system how to obtain gear. And every boss in every dungeon has around 3-5 things to drop. In neverwinter Last boss which is only boss in whole dungeon which provides T gear has at least 10 purple things to drop and then some blue. People could do one dungeon dozens times and still would not have single piece of gear they need. NO ONE would enjoy it. And game would soon failed completely. The dvelves are not bonus but something what saving game against failing.
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
This scenario would ruin game. There are games with this but this games has more dungeons with differen system how to obtain gear. And every boss in every dungeon has around 3-5 things to drop. In neverwinter Last boss which is only boss in whole dungeon which provides T gear has at least 10 purple things to drop and then some blue. People could do one dungeon dozens times and still would not have single piece of gear they need. NO ONE would enjoy it. And game would soon failed completely. The dvelves are not bonus but something what saving game against failing.
Alternatively the gear gets handed out in such an abundance that people get fully equipped at an obscenely fast rate and/or the prices of items drops to an obnoxiously low value.
Even right now many powerful items can be bought for 10-100K AD. I'm already extremely concerned that loot is being dropped too much and/or there isn't enough diversity in the loot for long term sustainability of the system.
Not that I have any say in the matter but the loot drops should likely get tweaked and probably shouldn't get tweaked in ways that will deflate prices even more than they are already.
Alternatively the gear gets handed out in such an abundance that people get fully equipped at an obscenely fast rate and/or the prices of items drops to an obnoxiously low value.
Even right now many powerful items can be bought for 10-100K AD. I'm already extremely concerned that loot is being dropped too much and/or there isn't enough diversity in the loot for long term sustainability of the system.
Not that I have any say in the matter but the loot drops should likely get tweaked and probably shouldn't get tweaked in ways that will deflate prices even more than they are already.
Just do not let people to sell T gear in AH. Everyone will get fully equipped at obscenely fast rate if he can just buy everything. If chest would be there every time but people could not sell T gear from it it would higher prices of gear, becouse people could sell only gear which dropped from boss. I would forbid selling T gear absolutely, but this will probably never happen..:-D But people would have to do dungeons to obtain gear and if chest would be there every time they would spend reasonable time to get fully equiped. Even with DD i had to do HC Idris 10 times to get T1 chest and even then it was different than i actualy wanted....This reminds me I calculated number of purple loot from last boss wrong, becouse every class has at least two types of T set so is around 20 purple things...Do you realy think this system would work?...:-D Without DD it would be catasrophic but with DD it is still not good. Permanent chest and no way how to sell T gear (at least not from chest) would solve it.
The only difference between doing it during a DD and non is that you get a guaranteed piece of loot. I mean none of the encounters are altered or anything so why should not doing it during a DD change your enjoyment.
What I'm reading isn't that you enjoy getting the gear it is actually the having. For me personally I will happily grind out dungeons in and out of DD because I enjoy doing them the gear is truly just a bonus.
The gear is not a bonus. The gear is the entire point. There are many things that I find enjoyable about this game, but dungeons are too time-consuming and hectic not to receive a reward for.
A rich rogue nowadays is fit company for any gentleman; and the world, my dear, hath not such a contempt for roguery as you imagine. - John HAMSTER
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joukuoj32Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
If you play from OB start(2hours per day), then you have best gear now.
DD is nice about you get item for your class, but its like +%ZEN or double AD from dailys.
Funny ppl get event which give them item for their class(i hate random drops) and they want change it.
Try Allods online-20xkeys per week so 20 dungeons(allods) per week(no you cant do more) and it have completly random drops.
I was running 1 dungeon(allod) to get 1 stupid item for 3 weeks.(you could skip bosses and mobs there if you want)
Now lets check it here.
Lvling-super fast
Getting T2 gear-fast
Getting AD-average(it depend on ppl, some get a lot from auction so getting AD is fast for them)
Getting gold-depend with who you running endgame(on my GF with some ppl its 40pots and few injury kits, with some other its
10pots or less and no injury kits)
The gear is a bonus. What ever happened to MMOs where people want to actually, you know.....PLAY THE GAME?
The game is completely built around gear and the Zen/AD economy. If this was a game in which I could reasonably farm AD without having to sell dungeon items, then it wouldn't be a big deal, but that is not the case. These items matter entirely too much, and because of that, there is no "fun" incentive to doing dungeons when they aren't offered.
A rich rogue nowadays is fit company for any gentleman; and the world, my dear, hath not such a contempt for roguery as you imagine. - John HAMSTER
The game is completely built around gear and the Zen/AD economy. If this was a game in which I could reasonably farm AD without having to sell dungeon items, then it wouldn't be a big deal, but that is not the case. These items matter entirely too much, and because of that, there is no "fun" incentive to doing dungeons when they aren't offered.
Not really - the game is build around questing, dungeon delving, and PVP - why else do you want to acquire gear but to become better at doing those things?
I don't play something that's not fun. If it feels like work and I'm not getting paid for it, on to the next game.
Not really - the game is build around questing, dungeon delving, and PVP - why else do you want to acquire gear but to become better at doing those things?
I don't play something that's not fun. If it feels like work and I'm not getting paid for it, on to the next game.
All games have questing, dungeons, and PvP. Not all games have these things be so gear-dependent, nor do all games have the convoluted economy so tied up into them. You can pretend like the gear economy isn't the priority in this game all you want, but it is. And that's exactly why people don't want to run the dungeons without guaranteed rewards. If "fun" was the priority, I'd imagine the dungeons wouldn't be so difficult or time-consuming with poorly-geared toons.
A rich rogue nowadays is fit company for any gentleman; and the world, my dear, hath not such a contempt for roguery as you imagine. - John HAMSTER
All games have questing, dungeons, and PvP. Not all games have these things be so gear-dependent, nor do all games have the convoluted economy so tied up into them. You can pretend like the gear economy isn't the priority in this game all you want, but it is. And that's exactly why people don't want to run the dungeons without guaranteed rewards. If "fun" was the priority, I'd imagine the dungeons wouldn't be so difficult or time-consuming with poorly-geared toons.
So why do you want better gear then? Not to make you better at the economy, but to make you more effective at THE GAME - which entails quests, dungeons, skirmishes, and PVP.
The game isn't centered around the economy. If every piece of loot in the game was bind on acquire, there would still be people playing. If you took the dungeons, skirmishes, quests, and foundry out of the game, that would be all she wrote.
Fun is the priority. I get into dungeons without guaranteed rewards all the time. Instead of waiting for the queue to do all the work for me only when the gear farmers want to run, I simply put a group together with other like minded people who have fun playing the game - which is exactly why you want better gear.
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dalrionMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 27Arc User
Why not just have the dungeon delve be a daily bonus, instead of trying to sync it up with the queue?
You mean one dungeon delve per day whenever you log in? This could really be good compromise. Maybe just one time would not be enough. After all even with chest you do not have guaranteed item you whant so you have to do every dungeon around 10 times for one item depends if you are lucky or not and you usualy want 2 items...:-). In my opinion 2 or 3 times per day would be reasonable.
I don't like anything about how the dungeon system is set up atm.
The only time it's ever worth doing dungeons is during delves, so when it's up you feel forced to do it, when it's not up and you want to do one it's pointless.
The drop rates are absolutely abysmal on top of that which just reinforces the above.
Having to still roll on loot with strangers for normal drops when they're boe and can be sold is just an awful idea.
They need to scrap the bonus altogether, make it so the delve chest is activated all the time, which makes up for the terrible drop rates. Then give the dungeon delve a different bonus, like making trash actually drop good stuff or something lol.
So why do you want better gear then? Not to make you better at the economy, but to make you more effective at THE GAME - which entails quests, dungeons, skirmishes, and PVP.
Dude, we're talking in circles here.
Guess I'll end the discussion on this note. I do not think the dungeons are fun enough to go through the hassle of running without a guaranteed reward. Therefore the times in which this guaranteed reward are offered should be longer. I also feel that the way the economy and gear work in this game actively encourages greed from the playerbase, and actively hinder much of the enjoyment we would feel from running the dungeons otherwise.
You may feel free to disagree.
A rich rogue nowadays is fit company for any gentleman; and the world, my dear, hath not such a contempt for roguery as you imagine. - John HAMSTER
The only difference between doing it during a DD and non is that you get a guaranteed piece of loot. I mean none of the encounters are altered or anything so why should not doing it during a DD change your enjoyment.
DD loots outside of events are 95% <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> and make them very unrewarding. The only exception is the dracolich with a guaranted T3 weapon set drop, which is a good option.
In my opinion :
- Either remove the DD events and make final bosses have a 100% drop rate on tiers set pieces (the MMO "usual" way). You will still have to grind it to get your own class set piece, but at least you know one will drop.
- Or make the DD event character bound, some ideas were thrown on how to use tokens for it, getting those tokens through daily quests etc... that could be a good system too.
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
DD loots outside of events are 95% <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> and make them very unrewarding. The only exception is the dracolich with a guaranted T3 weapon set drop, which is a good option.
In my opinion :
- Either remove the DD events and make final bosses have a 100% drop rate on tiers set pieces (the MMO "usual" way). You will still have to grind it to get your own class set piece, but at least you know one will drop.
- Or make the DD event character bound, some ideas were thrown on how to use tokens for it, getting those tokens through daily quests etc... that could be a good system too.
And what happens when the gear floods the market past the point of demand?
Will you get rewarded at all then?
The issue will go from "I don't get items" to I don't get items worth diddly-squat and I was fully equipped before I could even do the dungeon because I bought all of the t3 gear for a day's worth of AD in the AH.
There's solutions to you guys feeling under-rewarded but it is NOT to flood the game with gear. It's over-abundant as it is.
EDIT -
And as for making it bind on pick-up...
Ok so now you need to get to the dungeon before you can get the top gear. Woohoo. Then what happens after you do the dungeon 4 times? Now you have absolutely no reason to continue because you're fully equipped with the top gear within a day of getting 9200 GS with nothing left to gain from doing the dungeon.
The quality of rewards goes hand in hand with their rarity. It wouldn't be rewarding if they were common and part of the current problem with the end game gear is that it is *too* common to begin with.
And what happens when the gear floods the market past the point of demand?
Will you get rewarded at all then?
The issue will go from "I don't get items" to I don't get items worth diddly-squat and I was fully equipped before I could even do the dungeon because I bought all of the t3 gear for a day's worth of AD in the AH.
There's solutions to you guys feeling under-rewarded but it is NOT to flood the game with gear. It's over-abundant as it is.
Look at the T3 weapon set pieces, they're worth at least 1M a piece, sometimes much more. Will you tell me the market is flooded with them and all the players can afford that from the get go ? Because I sure don't.
And to quote another suggestion : "make tiers set pieces bind on pick up, problem fixed'.
And as for making it bind on pick-up...
Ok so now you need to get to the dungeon before you can get the top gear. Woohoo. Then what happens after you do the dungeon 4 times? Now you have absolutely no reason to continue because you're fully equipped with the top gear within a day of getting 9200 GS with nothing left to gain from doing the dungeon.
The quality of rewards goes hand in hand with their rarity. It wouldn't be rewarding if they were common and part of the current problem with the end game gear is that it is *too* common to begin with.
You are making it look like way too easy. First you have 2 sets for each class, meaning you need on average to run each dungeon 10 times to get your piece (assuming you know which set you want and no party issue). Times 4 for the whole set, that's 40 dungeons, not counting the other pieces like weapons/amulets/rings etc.. That's for a tiers, if you want to grind T1 before T2 that's double, so I don't feel like you will be able to do that in a "few" days.
On the topic of replayability there are a lot of additional possibilities, like looting special ingredients in dungeons that allow you to create enchantments, crafts, consumables, whatever and possibly sell them on the AH. Which is basically a way to wait for the next addition of content, isn't that the whole point of an MMO ?
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
edited June 2013
T3 Items are, for the moment, still at a decent price point but they are dropping pretty rapidly.
Look at the cost of t1 and t2 gear though. They dropped from being hundreds of thousands of AD to often being a a few thousand. And they keep falling daily.
In another week check the T3 prices and see how they look.
As higher end gear becomes more and more common the number of people running Castle Never will simply increase thus increasing the number of T3 items put onto the market. There's a pretty limited number of items dropped with over-all mild differences so it doesn't take much to populate the market.
Right now the prices are still high because there's a lot of people who are still farming on their mains for their own gear but once that ceases, as is clear with the T1 Drops, the prices will plummet.
I hate doomsaying and I am trying my best not to do so but at this point in time it's where the game is. There's a large supply of top end gear with a limited number of people who need it. It can be fixed by adjusting the rewards to be both rewarding but not overabundant.
Although I doubt it would happen I would say that instead of a guaranteed purple drop and shard drop there should be a number of AD divied out to the party members instead thus increasing the rarity of the drops and the AD to purchase them.
That's just my opinion but as it stands now there are so many top end gear being pumped into the game it's all a matter of time before every single item is acquired far more than the demand can sustain.
You are making it look like way too easy.
If every dungeon has a guaranteed chance of dropping top end BoP item specific to your class it will take 4-6 successful runs (unless you start getting duplicates which would just be bad)
Even if there are two sets you would have to do the dungeon 8-12 times before you get yourself fully equipped and then...what?
You now have absolutely no incentive after the first dozen or so successful delves to continue beyond the current reasons that already exist with the current drops. (Enchants, crafts, consumables)
Look at the T3 weapon set pieces, they're worth at least 1M a piece, sometimes much more. Will you tell me the market is flooded with them and all the players can afford that from the get go ? Because I sure don't.
And to quote another suggestion : "make tiers set pieces bind on pick up, problem fixed'.
No, that's not what they're worth. That's just what some people will pay for them.
If every dungeon has a guaranteed chance of dropping top end BoP item specific to your class it will take 4-6 successful runs (unless you start getting duplicates which would just be bad)
Even if there are two sets you would have to do the dungeon 8-12 times before you get yourself fully equipped and then...what?
No the "usual" way I was referring to is the boss drops one tiers set piece, one for the whole group not per player. That's why I said on average you need to run each dungeon 10 times to get the piece you want (5 classes x 2 possibles sets). That's assuming the dungeons stay like they are right now : Karrundax drop arms, spellplague helms etc..
No the "usual" way I was referring to is the boss drops one tiers set piece, one for the whole group not per player. That's why I said on average you need to run each dungeon 10 times to get the piece you want (5 classes x 2 possibles sets). That's assuming the dungeons stay like they are right now : Karrundax drop arms, spellplague helms etc..
And my arguments are based on people saying unless they get a piece of armor that they can sell and/or use then the dungeon isn't worth it.
Currently all dungeons drop 3 purple drops and 8 if the DD event is on.
The players within this thread have stated that every dungeon should give every player 1 purple drop all the time otherwise "it's not worth doing dungeons." That would flood the market horribly which is what I have been arguing against.
The players within this thread have stated that every dungeon should give every player 1 purple drop all the time otherwise "it's not worth doing dungeons." That would flood the market horribly which is what I have been arguing against.
Well, these players are most likely the "instant gratification" crowd and while they have right to state their opinion, it should be pretty much ignored all together as they don't, can't and won't look outside of "ME" box.
Dungeons aren't supposed to give you anything guaranteed, only a chance to get something(random drops which we currently have) and eventually something that allows you to get some gear with time if no luck is on your side(seals have that role in here) and thats it, that is what makes it balanced, that is what makes people return to dungeons over and over. Would be absolutely no point in making mmo that wouldn't provide tasks that hold players at max level and instant gratification crowd demanding to be always rewarded for whatever they do don't have place in MMOs, they are the ones to scream the loudest and first ones to go.
A friend of mine has been chain doing Idris to get his tier 1 chest, then stopped when he realized there is a 2% or less chance of getting the one he wants drop from the boss. It's never worth it for him to do Idris outside of a delve and just running the dungeon he gets nothing out of it since he doesn't roll need to sell things.
They should change delves to something else and just unlock chests regardless of time. No purpose doing any tier 1 outside of delve time unless you're hoping to get really lucky.
Comments
What I'm reading isn't that you enjoy getting the gear it is actually the having. For me personally I will happily grind out dungeons in and out of DD because I enjoy doing them the gear is truly just a bonus.
But not enough people see it like you. Especialy for T2 dungeons. So it is much harder to find group without DD. Even in guild. And i am in big active guild :-D No DD no reason to do go for most people.
So let's pretend the feature was never implemented.
Dungeons would never of had never have 100% chance at guaranteed gear for each participant. The system would have been as it was without the DD event..
The delves are a bonus. An additional incentive. The event makes dungeons more rewarding.
If they never existed you would never of gotten guaranteed loot...
And in all honesty if you never got the guaranteed loot you likely would have never considered it a problematic to not receive guaranteed loot.
Get rid of delves and leave the chest.
BLOOD neverwinter wiki - http://neverwinteronline.wikia.com/wiki/NeverwinterOnline_Wiki
This scenario would ruin game. There are games with this but this games has more dungeons with differen system how to obtain gear. And every boss in every dungeon has around 3-5 things to drop. In neverwinter Last boss which is only boss in whole dungeon which provides T gear has at least 10 purple things to drop and then some blue. People could do one dungeon dozens times and still would not have single piece of gear they need. NO ONE would enjoy it. And game would soon failed completely. The dvelves are not bonus but something what saving game against failing.
Alternatively the gear gets handed out in such an abundance that people get fully equipped at an obscenely fast rate and/or the prices of items drops to an obnoxiously low value.
Even right now many powerful items can be bought for 10-100K AD. I'm already extremely concerned that loot is being dropped too much and/or there isn't enough diversity in the loot for long term sustainability of the system.
Not that I have any say in the matter but the loot drops should likely get tweaked and probably shouldn't get tweaked in ways that will deflate prices even more than they are already.
Just do not let people to sell T gear in AH. Everyone will get fully equipped at obscenely fast rate if he can just buy everything. If chest would be there every time but people could not sell T gear from it it would higher prices of gear, becouse people could sell only gear which dropped from boss. I would forbid selling T gear absolutely, but this will probably never happen..:-D But people would have to do dungeons to obtain gear and if chest would be there every time they would spend reasonable time to get fully equiped. Even with DD i had to do HC Idris 10 times to get T1 chest and even then it was different than i actualy wanted....This reminds me I calculated number of purple loot from last boss wrong, becouse every class has at least two types of T set so is around 20 purple things...Do you realy think this system would work?...:-D Without DD it would be catasrophic but with DD it is still not good. Permanent chest and no way how to sell T gear (at least not from chest) would solve it.
The gear is not a bonus. The gear is the entire point. There are many things that I find enjoyable about this game, but dungeons are too time-consuming and hectic not to receive a reward for.
DD is nice about you get item for your class, but its like +%ZEN or double AD from dailys.
Funny ppl get event which give them item for their class(i hate random drops) and they want change it.
Try Allods online-20xkeys per week so 20 dungeons(allods) per week(no you cant do more) and it have completly random drops.
I was running 1 dungeon(allod) to get 1 stupid item for 3 weeks.(you could skip bosses and mobs there if you want)
Now lets check it here.
Lvling-super fast
Getting T2 gear-fast
Getting AD-average(it depend on ppl, some get a lot from auction so getting AD is fast for them)
Getting gold-depend with who you running endgame(on my GF with some ppl its 40pots and few injury kits, with some other its
10pots or less and no injury kits)
The game is completely built around gear and the Zen/AD economy. If this was a game in which I could reasonably farm AD without having to sell dungeon items, then it wouldn't be a big deal, but that is not the case. These items matter entirely too much, and because of that, there is no "fun" incentive to doing dungeons when they aren't offered.
Not really - the game is build around questing, dungeon delving, and PVP - why else do you want to acquire gear but to become better at doing those things?
I don't play something that's not fun. If it feels like work and I'm not getting paid for it, on to the next game.
All games have questing, dungeons, and PvP. Not all games have these things be so gear-dependent, nor do all games have the convoluted economy so tied up into them. You can pretend like the gear economy isn't the priority in this game all you want, but it is. And that's exactly why people don't want to run the dungeons without guaranteed rewards. If "fun" was the priority, I'd imagine the dungeons wouldn't be so difficult or time-consuming with poorly-geared toons.
So why do you want better gear then? Not to make you better at the economy, but to make you more effective at THE GAME - which entails quests, dungeons, skirmishes, and PVP.
The game isn't centered around the economy. If every piece of loot in the game was bind on acquire, there would still be people playing. If you took the dungeons, skirmishes, quests, and foundry out of the game, that would be all she wrote.
Fun is the priority. I get into dungeons without guaranteed rewards all the time. Instead of waiting for the queue to do all the work for me only when the gear farmers want to run, I simply put a group together with other like minded people who have fun playing the game - which is exactly why you want better gear.
You mean one dungeon delve per day whenever you log in? This could really be good compromise. Maybe just one time would not be enough. After all even with chest you do not have guaranteed item you whant so you have to do every dungeon around 10 times for one item depends if you are lucky or not and you usualy want 2 items...:-). In my opinion 2 or 3 times per day would be reasonable.
The only time it's ever worth doing dungeons is during delves, so when it's up you feel forced to do it, when it's not up and you want to do one it's pointless.
The drop rates are absolutely abysmal on top of that which just reinforces the above.
Having to still roll on loot with strangers for normal drops when they're boe and can be sold is just an awful idea.
They need to scrap the bonus altogether, make it so the delve chest is activated all the time, which makes up for the terrible drop rates. Then give the dungeon delve a different bonus, like making trash actually drop good stuff or something lol.
Dude, we're talking in circles here.
Guess I'll end the discussion on this note. I do not think the dungeons are fun enough to go through the hassle of running without a guaranteed reward. Therefore the times in which this guaranteed reward are offered should be longer. I also feel that the way the economy and gear work in this game actively encourages greed from the playerbase, and actively hinder much of the enjoyment we would feel from running the dungeons otherwise.
You may feel free to disagree.
In my opinion :
- Either remove the DD events and make final bosses have a 100% drop rate on tiers set pieces (the MMO "usual" way). You will still have to grind it to get your own class set piece, but at least you know one will drop.
- Or make the DD event character bound, some ideas were thrown on how to use tokens for it, getting those tokens through daily quests etc... that could be a good system too.
And what happens when the gear floods the market past the point of demand?
Will you get rewarded at all then?
The issue will go from "I don't get items" to I don't get items worth diddly-squat and I was fully equipped before I could even do the dungeon because I bought all of the t3 gear for a day's worth of AD in the AH.
There's solutions to you guys feeling under-rewarded but it is NOT to flood the game with gear. It's over-abundant as it is.
EDIT -
And as for making it bind on pick-up...
Ok so now you need to get to the dungeon before you can get the top gear. Woohoo. Then what happens after you do the dungeon 4 times? Now you have absolutely no reason to continue because you're fully equipped with the top gear within a day of getting 9200 GS with nothing left to gain from doing the dungeon.
The quality of rewards goes hand in hand with their rarity. It wouldn't be rewarding if they were common and part of the current problem with the end game gear is that it is *too* common to begin with.
And to quote another suggestion : "make tiers set pieces bind on pick up, problem fixed'.
On the topic of replayability there are a lot of additional possibilities, like looting special ingredients in dungeons that allow you to create enchantments, crafts, consumables, whatever and possibly sell them on the AH. Which is basically a way to wait for the next addition of content, isn't that the whole point of an MMO ?
Look at the cost of t1 and t2 gear though. They dropped from being hundreds of thousands of AD to often being a a few thousand. And they keep falling daily.
In another week check the T3 prices and see how they look.
As higher end gear becomes more and more common the number of people running Castle Never will simply increase thus increasing the number of T3 items put onto the market. There's a pretty limited number of items dropped with over-all mild differences so it doesn't take much to populate the market.
Right now the prices are still high because there's a lot of people who are still farming on their mains for their own gear but once that ceases, as is clear with the T1 Drops, the prices will plummet.
I hate doomsaying and I am trying my best not to do so but at this point in time it's where the game is. There's a large supply of top end gear with a limited number of people who need it. It can be fixed by adjusting the rewards to be both rewarding but not overabundant.
Although I doubt it would happen I would say that instead of a guaranteed purple drop and shard drop there should be a number of AD divied out to the party members instead thus increasing the rarity of the drops and the AD to purchase them.
That's just my opinion but as it stands now there are so many top end gear being pumped into the game it's all a matter of time before every single item is acquired far more than the demand can sustain.
If every dungeon has a guaranteed chance of dropping top end BoP item specific to your class it will take 4-6 successful runs (unless you start getting duplicates which would just be bad)
Even if there are two sets you would have to do the dungeon 8-12 times before you get yourself fully equipped and then...what?
You now have absolutely no incentive after the first dozen or so successful delves to continue beyond the current reasons that already exist with the current drops. (Enchants, crafts, consumables)
No, that's not what they're worth. That's just what some people will pay for them.
Pretty much this.
Overpriced items are not something new.
I know I'm not going to pay for any of it, will prefer to farm it myself.
And my arguments are based on people saying unless they get a piece of armor that they can sell and/or use then the dungeon isn't worth it.
Currently all dungeons drop 3 purple drops and 8 if the DD event is on.
The players within this thread have stated that every dungeon should give every player 1 purple drop all the time otherwise "it's not worth doing dungeons." That would flood the market horribly which is what I have been arguing against.
Well, these players are most likely the "instant gratification" crowd and while they have right to state their opinion, it should be pretty much ignored all together as they don't, can't and won't look outside of "ME" box.
Dungeons aren't supposed to give you anything guaranteed, only a chance to get something(random drops which we currently have) and eventually something that allows you to get some gear with time if no luck is on your side(seals have that role in here) and thats it, that is what makes it balanced, that is what makes people return to dungeons over and over. Would be absolutely no point in making mmo that wouldn't provide tasks that hold players at max level and instant gratification crowd demanding to be always rewarded for whatever they do don't have place in MMOs, they are the ones to scream the loudest and first ones to go.
They should change delves to something else and just unlock chests regardless of time. No purpose doing any tier 1 outside of delve time unless you're hoping to get really lucky.