And what happens when the gear floods the market past the point of demand?
Will you get rewarded at all then?
The issue will go from "I don't get items" to I don't get items worth diddly-squat and I was fully equipped before I could even do the dungeon because I bought all of the t3 gear for a day's worth of AD in the AH.
There's solutions to you guys feeling under-rewarded but it is NOT to flood the game with gear. It's over-abundant as it is.
EDIT -
And as for making it bind on pick-up...
Ok so now you need to get to the dungeon before you can get the top gear. Woohoo. Then what happens after you do the dungeon 4 times? Now you have absolutely no reason to continue because you're fully equipped with the top gear within a day of getting 9200 GS with nothing left to gain from doing the dungeon.
The quality of rewards goes hand in hand with their rarity. It wouldn't be rewarding if they were common and part of the current problem with the end game gear is that it is *too* common to begin with.
We could make the bosses challenging and not some sort of gear gate/rinse repeat scenario.
Well, these players are most likely the "instant gratification" crowd and while they have right to state their opinion, it should be pretty much ignored all together as they don't, can't and won't look outside of "ME" box.
Dungeons aren't supposed to give you anything guaranteed, only a chance to get something(random drops which we currently have) and eventually something that allows you to get some gear with time if no luck is on your side(seals have that role in here) and thats it, that is what makes it balanced, that is what makes people return to dungeons over and over. Would be absolutely no point in making mmo that wouldn't provide tasks that hold players at max level and instant gratification crowd demanding to be always rewarded for whatever they do don't have place in MMOs, they are the ones to scream the loudest and first ones to go.
Eh, maybe you're the one who should be ignored? Don't really see what generalizations and condescension add to the discussion. Nor do I see the appeal of dungeons that are both no fun to play and unrewarding.
A rich rogue nowadays is fit company for any gentleman; and the world, my dear, hath not such a contempt for roguery as you imagine. - John HAMSTER
And my arguments are based on people saying unless they get a piece of armor that they can sell and/or use then the dungeon isn't worth it.
Currently all dungeons drop 3 purple drops and 8 if the DD event is on.
The players within this thread have stated that every dungeon should give every player 1 purple drop all the time otherwise "it's not worth doing dungeons." That would flood the market horribly which is what I have been arguing against.
What people say (me included) is that dungeons basic loots are so <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> that it's pointless to run them outside of the event. That's not the same as what you say.
That is the whole problem with "dungeons" in general - in every mmo I've played. To get the top tier gear, you are FORCED to group up, FORCED to go through a dungeon and, in most mmos, there might be only 1 or 2 decent drops, which then you are FORCED to contend with dishonest players who hit "need" on everything - whether they can use it or not. This actually takes away from "group" play and turns it into an individualist anarchy with the lucky and unethical getting the prize regardless of how well they actually performed during the crawl.
Seems to me a much more fair system is a straight random roll if the item is usable by all members or no members and a separate random roll for items which are class-specific in which only members of the classes(s) in question are entitled. Eliminate the whole "need/greed" since the truly greedy are going to hit "need" anyway.
Why is it you can't simply improve your crafting skills up to an epic level and craft this gear yourself? Why is it they can't simply make the dungeons scalable (sic) for solo or group play (with groups being 2 or more)?
Figure it out for yourself or obey without question.
Your argument seems redundant. What is the point to begin with? "I'm going into a dungeon to get better gear so I can go into a dungeon to get better gear so I can go into a dungeon and get better . . . ad infinitum." Where does it end? Seems like just so much circular logic to begin with. For those of us who are not motivated solely by materialism, what is the attraction of dungeon delving at all? But that is what every single mmo comes down to. Not story; not escape from the humdrum; not entertainment, but simply self-centrism and greed.
In my opinion, there is not a true rpg mmo out there. For me, to be a true rpg mmo, then the world story would have to be ongoing, shaped by the players themselves. What all of these games really are, is single-player adventure games which allow multiple people to play the exact same story line, the exact sames quests, as thousands of other people. The players actually make no difference and have no real affect in the game world - which is the antithesis of what a "hero" is.
Let's face it, in Neverwinter, regardless of what YOU want, you are forced to be a "good" hero, for the sake of Neverwinter. What if someone wants to play an evil character? Or a character out to become wealthy? Someone who seeks advancement to the ranks of the nobility? This game has about as much in common with D&D as a pair of sweaty gym socks.
Figure it out for yourself or obey without question.
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dalrionMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 27Arc User
And what happens when the gear floods the market past the point of demand?
EDIT -
And as for making it bind on pick-up...
Ok so now you need to get to the dungeon before you can get the top gear. Woohoo. Then what happens after you do the dungeon 4 times? Now you have absolutely no reason to continue because you're fully equipped with the top gear within a day of getting 9200 GS with nothing left to gain from doing the dungeon.
The quality of rewards goes hand in hand with their rarity. It wouldn't be rewarding if they were common and part of the current problem with the end game gear is that it is *too* common to begin with.
What? Do you even play game? :-D No one would get fully equiped 9200 in 4 dungeons... You whant to defend delves but you cant with bad arguments like this...
As you can see from reactions of players most of them do not like delves. Players are not satisfied.
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
What? Do you even play game? :-D No one would get fully equiped 9200 in 4 dungeons... You whant to defend delves but you cant with bad arguments like this...
As you can see from reactions of players most of them do not like delves. Players are not satisfied.
My arguments are based on players requests in this thread, "Give every single person a purple drop"
This would amplify the amount of gear in the game exponentially.
This isn't how the game is, this what the players in this thread are requesting. And that's just going to make the situation worse.
I hate doomsaying and I am trying my best not to do so but at this point in time it's where the game is. There's a large supply of top end gear with a limited number of people who need it. It can be fixed by adjusting the rewards to be both rewarding but not overabundant.
Although I doubt it would happen I would say that instead of a guaranteed purple drop and shard drop there should be a number of AD divied out to the party members instead thus increasing the rarity of the drops and the AD to purchase them.
That's just my opinion but as it stands now there are so many top end gear being pumped into the game it's all a matter of time before every single item is acquired far more than the demand can sustain.
If every dungeon has a guaranteed chance of dropping top end BoP item specific to your class it will take 4-6 successful runs (unless you start getting duplicates which would just be bad)
Even if there are two sets you would have to do the dungeon 8-12 times before you get yourself fully equipped and then...what?
You now have absolutely no incentive after the first dozen or so successful delves to continue beyond the current reasons that already exist with the current drops. (Enchants, crafts, consumables)
Very well said. I agree with this 100%.
Its a joke how easy it is to get top tier gear in this game. I am definitely for making it much less abundant. Hell I'm also for slowing down the xp.
Character development needs to be a journey. In adventure. Not a 2-3 day white knuckle ride thru Imdonenowwhatville.
Oh and defending delves are easy. There should be many more of them. Why? Because tens of thousands of us that are hapilly in guilds (or not in guilds but playing with friends) and are planning to stay around the game a long while, find value in quest content such as these.
Dude, getting gear is part of the fun of the game. I hate RPGs where gear is irrelevant.
But games can also go too far in the other direction.
No no, you don't understand his point. Gear should hard to get. The best gear in the game should be made rare... not handed out like a brown bag of Jolly Ranchers in the back of math class.....
That is the whole problem with "dungeons" in general - in every mmo I've played. To get the top tier gear, you are FORCED to group up, FORCED to go through a dungeon and
Let me stop you right there. You are playing a licensed Dungeons and Dragons product. This is not just your basic run of the mill Saturday morning Steam game. Grouping would be EXPECTED in any realistic Dungeons and Dragons multi-player product.
My arguments are based on players requests in this thread, "Give every single person a purple drop"
This would amplify the amount of gear in the game exponentially.
This isn't how the game is, this what the players in this thread are requesting. And that's just going to make the situation worse.
Even with "Give every single person a purple drop" you would have to do MUCH MORE dungeons to get fully equiped than 4. Every chest can drop 4 purple, usualy you want 2 and getting purple from it is not guaranteed. You have to run every dungeon at least 6 times to get everything you want from ONE dungeon. So if you want to be full T2 it is 120 dungeon runs average. This is absolutely OK.
Problem is that this game allows people tu sell engame gear for important currancy. So lot of people just farm and ninja dungeons to get gear just for business. This is reason why endgame gear has no value and everyone can get it in one day.
Give us permanent chest forbid selling endgame gear and everyone will have to do these 120 dungeos to get at least T2.... problem will be solved.
Dungeons aren't rewarding unless you do them during delves, and once they fix the boss leashing they'll be even less rewarding without running them in a core group of good players.
Let me stop you right there. You are playing a licensed Dungeons and Dragons product. This is not just your basic run of the mill Saturday morning Steam game. Grouping would be EXPECTED in any realistic Dungeons and Dragons multi-player product.
If this was true why don't they fix the party advertising system? So at the moment the only way I can use the party advertising system is if I have one other person and then I can advertise. Therefore almost no one uses it. Instead there is this total mess in zone chat. Doesn't NWO have any pride? How can you talk about grouping? People somehow drift from guild to guild and maybe find one to fit in, or they try their luck at queuing, but parties are broken as described. Surely NWO has looked at other MMOs out there to see grouping systems?
Dungeon Delves times for me during my timezone tend to be at 11pm at night and then 6am in the morning which makes it quite limiting for me as I work and leave 7.30am and come home 6pm or later and need to sleep.
Most people don't bother running unless delves due to chest unlock as time and effort involved and the chance in return for time and resources spent.
More and more I am finding less incentives to play this game. Loot seems to be all about how good you are at trading or how lucky you are rather than effort
~*~ Sparkles! ~*~
The MMO may change but the inventory tetris stays the same.
Easy fix: make items acquired by "need" bound on pickup and leave those aquired by "greed" bound on equip. This will decrease the amount of items on market, make them harder to get, make running dungeons more rewarding without further spoiling the market with too easy to obtain items.
Done.
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
Even with "Give every single person a purple drop" you would have to do MUCH MORE dungeons to get fully equiped than 4. Every chest can drop 4 purple, usualy you want 2 and getting purple from it is not guaranteed. You have to run every dungeon at least 6 times to get everything you want from ONE dungeon. So if you want to be full T2 it is 120 dungeon runs average. This is absolutely OK.
Problem is that this game allows people tu sell engame gear for important currancy. So lot of people just farm and ninja dungeons to get gear just for business. This is reason why endgame gear has no value and everyone can get it in one day.
Give us permanent chest forbid selling endgame gear and everyone will have to do these 120 dungeos to get at least T2.... problem will be solved.
Let's break down the logic which lead to this conclusion:
People in this thread have suggested that the Dungeon Delve Event should be removed and that every person should get a purple drop at the end of every single dungeon.
There are only two possible results: The game gets flooded with the number of rewards or items become Bind on Pickup.
-If the game gets flooded with drops the prices will go down thus making the items worthless.
-If items are BoP and you are guaranteed a drops there are a few ways this could be treated
-Any class item could be dropped but not traded. I expect people would find that unrewarding.
-Only your class item is dropped
-You receive duplicates of dropped items. I expect people would find that unrewarding.
-You receive a new item you never received before thus giving a finite number of completions before you get no drops other than the current non-purple drops.
Bottom line is giving more purple items isn't going to make the "rewards" better. Period.
For goodness sake please stop with these pointless semantics and specifics.
Rewards are only rewarding if they are worth something. If anything they are too common as it is.
There are ways to make you guys feel like your getting a better reward but the ideas presented within this thread aren't the solution. If you don't like the dungeon delves event because you feel it is pointless to do dungeons when it's not active that's a problem which could be looked into but the trick is to get you guys to feel rewarded for both actions.
The dungeon delve even is a bonus and not a standard. That's not likely going to change. Try focusing on what could make the normal delves better rather than simply removing the event.
Let's break down the logic which lead to this conclusion:
-If items are BoP and you are guaranteed a drops there are a few ways this could be treated
-Any class item could be dropped but not traded. I expect people would find that unrewarding.
-Only your class item is dropped
-You receive duplicates of dropped items. I expect people would find that unrewarding.
-You receive a new item you never received before thus giving a finite number of completions before you get no drops other than the current non-purple drops.
99% of existing MMORPGs has this system or similar and it is rewarding. You want to have something different in this game but it is not working. It is better stick with known system than try to create something unique but worse.
Let's break down the logic which lead to this conclusion:
People in this thread have suggested that the Dungeon Delve Event should be removed and that every person should get a purple drop at the end of every single dungeon.
There are only two possible results: The game gets flooded with the number of rewards or items become Bind on Pickup.
-If the game gets flooded with drops the prices will go down thus making the items worthless.
-If items are BoP and you are guaranteed a drops there are a few ways this could be treated
-Any class item could be dropped but not traded. I expect people would find that unrewarding.
-Only your class item is dropped
-You receive duplicates of dropped items. I expect people would find that unrewarding.
-You receive a new item you never received before thus giving a finite number of completions before you get no drops other than the current non-purple drops.
Bottom line is giving more purple items isn't going to make the "rewards" better. Period.
For goodness sake please stop with these pointless semantics and specifics.
Rewards are only rewarding if they are worth something. If anything they are too common as it is.
There are ways to make you guys feel like your getting a better reward but the ideas presented within this thread aren't the solution. If you don't like the dungeon delves event because you feel it is pointless to do dungeons when it's not active that's a problem which could be looked into but the trick is to get you guys to feel rewarded for both actions.
The dungeon delve even is a bonus and not a standard. That's not likely going to change. Try focusing on what could make the normal delves better rather than simply removing the event.
I don't think you've read the posts in this thread the same way I've read them. Also I don't think you understand the motivations for doing delves as opposed to doing dungeons with no delves. Also the timing of the delves being an issue.
If your attitudes are truly representative of Cryptic staff then .. idk. Maybe this is not the game for me. I like to get some sort of progress out of my efforts in a game. I find the trading/buying/selling of loot be all and end all of end game to be not a game I really want to play as it's not that fun.
~*~ Sparkles! ~*~
The MMO may change but the inventory tetris stays the same.
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dalrionMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 27Arc User
I don't think you've read the posts in this thread the same way I've read them. Also I don't think you understand the motivations for doing delves as opposed to doing dungeons with no delves. Also the timing of the delves being an issue.
If your attitudes are truly representative of Cryptic staff then .. idk. Maybe this is not the game for me. I like to get some sort of progress out of my efforts in a game. I find the trading/buying/selling of loot be all and end all of end game to be not a game I really want to play as it's not that fun.
Nicely said :-) This game has lot of potential, but end game system makes me think that this is not what i want to play too...
Let's break down the logic which lead to this conclusion:
People in this thread have suggested that the Dungeon Delve Event should be removed and that every person should get a purple drop at the end of every single dungeon.
There are only two possible results: The game gets flooded with the number of rewards or items become Bind on Pickup.
-If the game gets flooded with drops the prices will go down thus making the items worthless.
-If items are BoP and you are guaranteed a drops there are a few ways this could be treated
-Any class item could be dropped but not traded. I expect people would find that unrewarding.
-Only your class item is dropped
-You receive duplicates of dropped items. I expect people would find that unrewarding.
-You receive a new item you never received before thus giving a finite number of completions before you get no drops other than the current non-purple drops.
Bottom line is giving more purple items isn't going to make the "rewards" better. Period.
For goodness sake please stop with these pointless semantics and specifics.
Rewards are only rewarding if they are worth something. If anything they are too common as it is.
There are ways to make you guys feel like your getting a better reward but the ideas presented within this thread aren't the solution. If you don't like the dungeon delves event because you feel it is pointless to do dungeons when it's not active that's a problem which could be looked into but the trick is to get you guys to feel rewarded for both actions.
The dungeon delve even is a bonus and not a standard. That's not likely going to change. Try focusing on what could make the normal delves better rather than simply removing the event.
You're really looking at this like an all or nothing scenario. You can do anything in parts, give the chest to everyone at all times and make only the chest loot bound. Make bosses drop BOE items, one item for the first two bosses two per end boss, and make the bosses harder. This way the market is less flooded(than it is now) and everyone feels satisfied by doing them. If you want to keep delves in the game add an AD reward.
There are actually very good ideas here. I agree though that its making gear too easy to get. I dont even care about preclears and the such, but I think they should change the delves chest to only give 1 more additional loot item instead of one each per person. Maybe they just have to change the formula so the boss then drops 2 items instead of 1, this will still get players to play more during that time.
"Last boss of any instance run during the timer will drop double the loot".
Players have to KILL the boss while the timer is active for it to work, can no longer just open the instance during the timer to get credit AND time should be extended to 1.5 hours to allow for atleast two runs. This puts a max of (4-5 runs) 8-10 peices of loot in the economy instead of (4-5 runs) x 5 players 25-30 pieces of loot currently.
100% chance of tier drop from last boss would only make dungeons more entertaining. The game economy is already terrible. Nothing at all to lose by making a non delve actually rewarding.
Why is the Dracolich the only boss in game that reliably drops what it is supposed to?
Use the <removed exploit lead-in> to interact with the auction vendor.
The one in the morning, I am at work
The one in the afternoon, is dinner time for most that live on the east coast.
The one at night is pushing it if I have to work the next day.
You give specific times that you find it difficult to attend the DD, but afaik the times are rotated and something your not taking into account is that there are alot of time zones the game is being played in. Your dinner time on the east coast, is pushing it for others around the world.
If this was true why don't they fix the party advertising system? So at the moment the only way I can use the party advertising system is if I have one other person and then I can advertise. Therefore almost no one uses it. Instead there is this total mess in zone chat. Doesn't NWO have any pride? How can you talk about grouping? People somehow drift from guild to guild and maybe find one to fit in, or they try their luck at queuing, but parties are broken as described. Surely NWO has looked at other MMOs out there to see grouping systems?
Dungeon Delves times for me during my timezone tend to be at 11pm at night and then 6am in the morning which makes it quite limiting for me as I work and leave 7.30am and come home 6pm or later and need to sleep.
Most people don't bother running unless delves due to chest unlock as time and effort involved and the chance in return for time and resources spent.
More and more I am finding less incentives to play this game. Loot seems to be all about how good you are at trading or how lucky you are rather than effort
Of course we wish for a much improved LFG feature. Party features are very high on my list. Guild features? I'm as well versed as they come on guild features. Delves/skirmish access are a very important to guild life.
Hopefully Cryptic will make many of these changes/improvements the community is asking for. They have already begun addressing some of these. Many more will be addressed. They are definitely listening. So, get into that link I gave ya above and tell the devs exactly what you want!
Let's break down the logic which lead to this conclusion:
People in this thread have suggested that the Dungeon Delve Event should be removed and that every person should get a purple drop at the end of every single dungeon.
There are only two possible results: The game gets flooded with the number of rewards or items become Bind on Pickup.
-If the game gets flooded with drops the prices will go down thus making the items worthless.
-If items are BoP and you are guaranteed a drops there are a few ways this could be treated
-Any class item could be dropped but not traded. I expect people would find that unrewarding.
-Only your class item is dropped
-You receive duplicates of dropped items. I expect people would find that unrewarding.
-You receive a new item you never received before thus giving a finite number of completions before you get no drops other than the current non-purple drops.
Bottom line is giving more purple items isn't going to make the "rewards" better. Period.
For goodness sake please stop with these pointless semantics and specifics.
Rewards are only rewarding if they are worth something. If anything they are too common as it is.
There are ways to make you guys feel like your getting a better reward but the ideas presented within this thread aren't the solution. If you don't like the dungeon delves event because you feel it is pointless to do dungeons when it's not active that's a problem which could be looked into but the trick is to get you guys to feel rewarded for both actions.
The dungeon delve even is a bonus and not a standard. That's not likely going to change. Try focusing on what could make the normal delves better rather than simply removing the event.
As said above you are a very "all or nothing" kind of guy aren't you ? For once you should stop saying that the overall idea here is to give everyone a purple item in every dungeon. Idk maybe some guy said that and you made an immediate fixation without realizing a lot of other people are not asking for that. What we want is a rewarding system outside of events, which is entirely different from getting gear for free.
Now tell me, are you running dungeons regularly outside of the events yourself ? Because if you do, I just can't believe you are not able to acknowledge the problem.
well I am a European and for me it is always: morning, dinner, night... it would work for me if all the events were not at the same time every day... but again, they do not really care about EUs :c
...a lot of other people are not asking for that. What we want is a rewarding system outside of events, which is entirely different from getting gear for free.
Now tell me, are you running dungeons regularly outside of the events yourself ? Because if you do, I just can't believe you are not able to acknowledge the problem.
First note I did say:
If you don't like the dungeon delves event because you feel it is pointless to do dungeons when it's not active that's a problem which could be looked into but the trick is to get you guys to feel rewarded for both actions.
There have been numerous posts in this thread which said the solution is to remove the Dungeon Delve Event and leave the chest full time. The dungeon delve event gives a guaranteed purple drop to every party member.
If you disagree with that kudos. I'm not fighting to make events more rewarding. I'm stating that the solution proposed by many people in this thread is a 'no-no' game breaking suggestion which would have the opposite effect.
I didn't read more than a handful of people who stated otherwise. Actually nobody has actually stated what rewards would be better except for one other person, rather they have focused disagreeing with my statements regarding the suggestions which will not work as if they agree with the proposed game breaking suggestions.
If you want to contradict me provide your solutions and your view points rather than arguing against my statements which you are, in fact, saying you are in agreement with.
Dungeon Delves is a really stupid mechanic.. Dungeons are worthless to do outside of delves and bad enough for loot with delves going.
Get rid of delves and leave the chest.
Now if you guys have suggestions for improving the loot mechanics bring it on. I am merely stating that supplying hordes of purple gear for every dungeon isn't a good solution. In fact if you want dungeons to be more rewarding the purple gear should actually become rarer and alternate rewards of value should be dropped such as Refined Astral Diamonds.
Now if you guys have suggestions for improving the loot mechanics bring it on. I am merely stating that supplying hordes of purple gear for every dungeon isn't a good solution. In fact if you want dungeons to be more rewarding the purple gear should actually become rarer and alternate rewards of value should be dropped such as Refined Astral Diamonds.
Take some tips from other games then or do some reading about motivations? Plenty of resources around
In terms of loot:
- you have those random big drops that we all roll on - that's good and I'm happy with that.
- you have a definite drop although it's random and may be useless to me and I have not choice of it - this is from a locked chest ONLY available during dungeon delves - it's bind on acquire though so unless it's what I want it's worth nothing to me except maybe a gold piece. A gold piece that will help pay for my resources actually doing that dungeon but not my time so I don't necessarily feel like I've broken even. This thread is about that.
- there is no definite progress I'm going to make from doing Dungeon delves unless I get enhancements as I go through that I can crunch. I feel a bit rude grabbing the arcane/dungeoneering/religion/nature stuff before someone else but honestly, when they drop tier 4s in epics sometimes getting these enhancements feels like the only definite progress I've made doing an epic.(And then I fail my fuse so that I feel like I havne't )
- there is a barter type system with the tokens I get which is ok up to a point. But I at a certain point I've got all I can use from this and feel like I can't make progress.
Yeah idk. I don't know many games except DDO and this one really. I think I like the treasure systems over there better but I guess I have to make allowances for NWO being so new.
~*~ Sparkles! ~*~
The MMO may change but the inventory tetris stays the same.
Did'ent read all the posts but, IMO, the problem is'ent that DD is too good, its that running dungeons without the DD is terribly bad.
Most of the time you get <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> from the DD chest .. but at least you have a "chance" at something. Outside of Delves the boss loot tables are so extensive, 3 gear sets per class, 5 classes, + belts / rings and other throw away loot ... Bracers of Lolth anyone? It makes running dungeons outside of delves a total grind and <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> shoot.
Bottom line, DD is not too good, not running with DD is just terrible. Improve the loot drops outside of delves, 100% chance a set piece drops (Still a 1 in 15 chance) or something like that, then you'll see people more willing to run dungeons outside of delve times.
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We could make the bosses challenging and not some sort of gear gate/rinse repeat scenario.
Eh, maybe you're the one who should be ignored? Don't really see what generalizations and condescension add to the discussion. Nor do I see the appeal of dungeons that are both no fun to play and unrewarding.
Seems to me a much more fair system is a straight random roll if the item is usable by all members or no members and a separate random roll for items which are class-specific in which only members of the classes(s) in question are entitled. Eliminate the whole "need/greed" since the truly greedy are going to hit "need" anyway.
Why is it you can't simply improve your crafting skills up to an epic level and craft this gear yourself? Why is it they can't simply make the dungeons scalable (sic) for solo or group play (with groups being 2 or more)?
In my opinion, there is not a true rpg mmo out there. For me, to be a true rpg mmo, then the world story would have to be ongoing, shaped by the players themselves. What all of these games really are, is single-player adventure games which allow multiple people to play the exact same story line, the exact sames quests, as thousands of other people. The players actually make no difference and have no real affect in the game world - which is the antithesis of what a "hero" is.
Let's face it, in Neverwinter, regardless of what YOU want, you are forced to be a "good" hero, for the sake of Neverwinter. What if someone wants to play an evil character? Or a character out to become wealthy? Someone who seeks advancement to the ranks of the nobility? This game has about as much in common with D&D as a pair of sweaty gym socks.
What? Do you even play game? :-D No one would get fully equiped 9200 in 4 dungeons... You whant to defend delves but you cant with bad arguments like this...
As you can see from reactions of players most of them do not like delves. Players are not satisfied.
My arguments are based on players requests in this thread, "Give every single person a purple drop"
This would amplify the amount of gear in the game exponentially.
This isn't how the game is, this what the players in this thread are requesting. And that's just going to make the situation worse.
Dude, getting gear is part of the fun of the game. I hate RPGs where gear is irrelevant.
But games can also go too far in the other direction.
Very well said. I agree with this 100%.
Its a joke how easy it is to get top tier gear in this game. I am definitely for making it much less abundant. Hell I'm also for slowing down the xp.
Character development needs to be a journey. In adventure. Not a 2-3 day white knuckle ride thru Imdonenowwhatville.
TYRS PALADIUM - A Premier Neverwinter Online Guild
No Drama. Camaraderie. TEAM Focus. That's the TYRS way. If that's your style, come join us!
Research our Guild here: Read our official Recruitment thread | Sign up here: Tyrs Guild Website! | NEVERWINTER GUILD LEADERS: Join the Fellowship!
TYRS PALADIUM - A Premier Neverwinter Online Guild
No Drama. Camaraderie. TEAM Focus. That's the TYRS way. If that's your style, come join us!
Research our Guild here: Read our official Recruitment thread | Sign up here: Tyrs Guild Website! | NEVERWINTER GUILD LEADERS: Join the Fellowship!
No no, you don't understand his point. Gear should hard to get. The best gear in the game should be made rare... not handed out like a brown bag of Jolly Ranchers in the back of math class.....
TYRS PALADIUM - A Premier Neverwinter Online Guild
No Drama. Camaraderie. TEAM Focus. That's the TYRS way. If that's your style, come join us!
Research our Guild here: Read our official Recruitment thread | Sign up here: Tyrs Guild Website! | NEVERWINTER GUILD LEADERS: Join the Fellowship!
Let me stop you right there.
TYRS PALADIUM - A Premier Neverwinter Online Guild
No Drama. Camaraderie. TEAM Focus. That's the TYRS way. If that's your style, come join us!
Research our Guild here: Read our official Recruitment thread | Sign up here: Tyrs Guild Website! | NEVERWINTER GUILD LEADERS: Join the Fellowship!
Even with "Give every single person a purple drop" you would have to do MUCH MORE dungeons to get fully equiped than 4. Every chest can drop 4 purple, usualy you want 2 and getting purple from it is not guaranteed. You have to run every dungeon at least 6 times to get everything you want from ONE dungeon. So if you want to be full T2 it is 120 dungeon runs average. This is absolutely OK.
Problem is that this game allows people tu sell engame gear for important currancy. So lot of people just farm and ninja dungeons to get gear just for business. This is reason why endgame gear has no value and everyone can get it in one day.
Give us permanent chest forbid selling endgame gear and everyone will have to do these 120 dungeos to get at least T2.... problem will be solved.
If this was true why don't they fix the party advertising system? So at the moment the only way I can use the party advertising system is if I have one other person and then I can advertise. Therefore almost no one uses it. Instead there is this total mess in zone chat. Doesn't NWO have any pride? How can you talk about grouping? People somehow drift from guild to guild and maybe find one to fit in, or they try their luck at queuing, but parties are broken as described. Surely NWO has looked at other MMOs out there to see grouping systems?
Dungeon Delves times for me during my timezone tend to be at 11pm at night and then 6am in the morning which makes it quite limiting for me as I work and leave 7.30am and come home 6pm or later and need to sleep.
Most people don't bother running unless delves due to chest unlock as time and effort involved and the chance in return for time and resources spent.
More and more I am finding less incentives to play this game. Loot seems to be all about how good you are at trading or how lucky you are rather than effort
The MMO may change but the inventory tetris stays the same.
Done.
Let's break down the logic which lead to this conclusion:
People in this thread have suggested that the Dungeon Delve Event should be removed and that every person should get a purple drop at the end of every single dungeon.
There are only two possible results: The game gets flooded with the number of rewards or items become Bind on Pickup.
-If items are BoP and you are guaranteed a drops there are a few ways this could be treated
-Only your class item is dropped
-You receive a new item you never received before thus giving a finite number of completions before you get no drops other than the current non-purple drops.
Bottom line is giving more purple items isn't going to make the "rewards" better. Period.
For goodness sake please stop with these pointless semantics and specifics.
Rewards are only rewarding if they are worth something. If anything they are too common as it is.
There are ways to make you guys feel like your getting a better reward but the ideas presented within this thread aren't the solution. If you don't like the dungeon delves event because you feel it is pointless to do dungeons when it's not active that's a problem which could be looked into but the trick is to get you guys to feel rewarded for both actions.
The dungeon delve even is a bonus and not a standard. That's not likely going to change. Try focusing on what could make the normal delves better rather than simply removing the event.
99% of existing MMORPGs has this system or similar and it is rewarding. You want to have something different in this game but it is not working. It is better stick with known system than try to create something unique but worse.
I don't think you've read the posts in this thread the same way I've read them. Also I don't think you understand the motivations for doing delves as opposed to doing dungeons with no delves. Also the timing of the delves being an issue.
If your attitudes are truly representative of Cryptic staff then .. idk. Maybe this is not the game for me. I like to get some sort of progress out of my efforts in a game. I find the trading/buying/selling of loot be all and end all of end game to be not a game I really want to play as it's not that fun.
The MMO may change but the inventory tetris stays the same.
Nicely said :-) This game has lot of potential, but end game system makes me think that this is not what i want to play too...
You're really looking at this like an all or nothing scenario. You can do anything in parts, give the chest to everyone at all times and make only the chest loot bound. Make bosses drop BOE items, one item for the first two bosses two per end boss, and make the bosses harder. This way the market is less flooded(than it is now) and everyone feels satisfied by doing them. If you want to keep delves in the game add an AD reward.
"Last boss of any instance run during the timer will drop double the loot".
Players have to KILL the boss while the timer is active for it to work, can no longer just open the instance during the timer to get credit AND time should be extended to 1.5 hours to allow for atleast two runs. This puts a max of (4-5 runs) 8-10 peices of loot in the economy instead of (4-5 runs) x 5 players 25-30 pieces of loot currently.
Why is the Dracolich the only boss in game that reliably drops what it is supposed to?
You give specific times that you find it difficult to attend the DD, but afaik the times are rotated and something your not taking into account is that there are alot of time zones the game is being played in. Your dinner time on the east coast, is pushing it for others around the world.
Oh you haven't seen this I don't believe: http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?320771-Interactive-Poll-The-Top-20-Fixes-You-d-Make-to-Neverwinter!
Of course we wish for a much improved LFG feature. Party features are very high on my list. Guild features? I'm as well versed as they come on guild features. Delves/skirmish access are a very important to guild life.
Hopefully Cryptic will make many of these changes/improvements the community is asking for. They have already begun addressing some of these. Many more will be addressed. They are definitely listening. So, get into that link I gave ya above and tell the devs exactly what you want!
TYRS PALADIUM - A Premier Neverwinter Online Guild
No Drama. Camaraderie. TEAM Focus. That's the TYRS way. If that's your style, come join us!
Research our Guild here: Read our official Recruitment thread | Sign up here: Tyrs Guild Website! | NEVERWINTER GUILD LEADERS: Join the Fellowship!
Now tell me, are you running dungeons regularly outside of the events yourself ? Because if you do, I just can't believe you are not able to acknowledge the problem.
foundry Call of the Blood - NW-DTAK6CXZ2
campaign Heart of Nature - NWS-DUKNH9PPZ
First note I did say: There have been numerous posts in this thread which said the solution is to remove the Dungeon Delve Event and leave the chest full time. The dungeon delve event gives a guaranteed purple drop to every party member.
If you disagree with that kudos. I'm not fighting to make events more rewarding. I'm stating that the solution proposed by many people in this thread is a 'no-no' game breaking suggestion which would have the opposite effect.
I didn't read more than a handful of people who stated otherwise. Actually nobody has actually stated what rewards would be better except for one other person, rather they have focused disagreeing with my statements regarding the suggestions which will not work as if they agree with the proposed game breaking suggestions.
If you want to contradict me provide your solutions and your view points rather than arguing against my statements which you are, in fact, saying you are in agreement with.
Here's one of those many posts:
Now if you guys have suggestions for improving the loot mechanics bring it on. I am merely stating that supplying hordes of purple gear for every dungeon isn't a good solution. In fact if you want dungeons to be more rewarding the purple gear should actually become rarer and alternate rewards of value should be dropped such as Refined Astral Diamonds.
Take some tips from other games then or do some reading about motivations? Plenty of resources around
In terms of loot:
- you have those random big drops that we all roll on - that's good and I'm happy with that.
- you have a definite drop although it's random and may be useless to me and I have not choice of it - this is from a locked chest ONLY available during dungeon delves - it's bind on acquire though so unless it's what I want it's worth nothing to me except maybe a gold piece. A gold piece that will help pay for my resources actually doing that dungeon but not my time so I don't necessarily feel like I've broken even. This thread is about that.
- there is no definite progress I'm going to make from doing Dungeon delves unless I get enhancements as I go through that I can crunch. I feel a bit rude grabbing the arcane/dungeoneering/religion/nature stuff before someone else but honestly, when they drop tier 4s in epics sometimes getting these enhancements feels like the only definite progress I've made doing an epic.(And then I fail my fuse so that I feel like I havne't
- there is a barter type system with the tokens I get which is ok up to a point. But I at a certain point I've got all I can use from this and feel like I can't make progress.
Yeah idk. I don't know many games except DDO and this one really. I think I like the treasure systems over there better but I guess I have to make allowances for NWO being so new.
The MMO may change but the inventory tetris stays the same.
Most of the time you get <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> from the DD chest .. but at least you have a "chance" at something. Outside of Delves the boss loot tables are so extensive, 3 gear sets per class, 5 classes, + belts / rings and other throw away loot ... Bracers of Lolth anyone? It makes running dungeons outside of delves a total grind and <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> shoot.
Bottom line, DD is not too good, not running with DD is just terrible. Improve the loot drops outside of delves, 100% chance a set piece drops (Still a 1 in 15 chance) or something like that, then you'll see people more willing to run dungeons outside of delve times.