So you change wording of a statement to pass off as fact and something I said. I see what you did there. Very. "Gives him a pat on head" Good job kid, very clever.
Why a wipe won't work.
Any game not in maintance mode gets updates
updates can contain bugs
bugs can be exploited
sometime in the future you'd be asking for a wipe again.
I would object very strongly to a full wipe for the simple reason that we were told there wouldn't be one. Therefore, many people (me included) have invested a lot of time and real money in the game that we might not have if we had known it'd later be rendered pointless.
We're not allowed to think that way, obviously. We're not supposed to hold a business accountable for what they say because reasons. The most common being: They have to wipe, or my ninja'd loot won't sell worth a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. So we have to reset and start over". I've actually seen that used.
if they wiped they would return you Zen... but they won't wipe they had there chance they chose the mighty buck of long term success.
They aren't going to return the time that I spent on the promise that there would be no wipe. They are not going to return my legitimately acquired crafting resources, as can be evidenced by the fact that I lost one of those to the rollback, and it's still gone. At least it's only one, instead of the others that I spent my time acquiring legitimately. I pay my own bills, and my time is valuable, to me. I don't know, or care, if you have 24/7 to play; I don't, and that's all that matters to me. This movement can quit devaluing my time any time it wants to. I would not have invested time or money into this game if they hadn't announced that there would be no more wipes. If they go back on that now, I will speak with my wallet.
Reading comprehension is essential in a medium that requires reading for communication.
In all fairness, We could compare this to the civil right movement . People continue to speak up despite being told to sit down and shut up.
Omigod. This is almost as bad as the hitler/<font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> ad hominem. You couldn't come up with anything better??
Civil rights only pertain to things insofar as -enjoyment- of the product goes. And it goes both ways. What makes your enjoyment more important than mine? Hmm? No, you just pulled a strawman argument.
Let me ask you this.
How many multi-million dollar income video games have you put out recently? Or even in your lifetime?
Cryptic has done four, counting this one.
How many times have you had to deal with the exact situation going on in the game?
Cryptic's got more experience than you, I'd wager.
What makes you think you know what's best for every. Single. Player. In. The. Game?
It's Cryptic's -business-. Let them run it. Or try to get Jack Emmert's position away from him. THEN you and your ilk can say what's right for the game.
No matter what the devs say, as a consumer if we disagree it is best that we let it be known.
What? You don't think that with the DOZENS OF OTHER THREADS ON THIS SUBJECT, they don't know already? Dead horse mean much to you? I'll reiterate with smaller words, just in case you didn't get it(kinda like a neutered dog) before.
Forum population is not equal to game population. We're in the minority here. Just so you know.
Edit: And my sig is just as outlandish a suggestion as a complete game wipe is. THAT is the point I'm trying to get across with it. And until a forum mod says something to me about it, it'll stay.
Then they are the problem not the solution.
This is a Beta. You are called Beta TESTERS for a reason. We are here to test the game and give insight on how to fix it. Not posting on the forums? you're not contributing to being a BETA TESTER and pretty much dead weight. Unless you're spending money.
If all the Zen we have paid are returned to us, yes, go ahead, make a full wipe, by all means. But if not so, then what's the point in me having paid anything so far? That's my SOLE objection to the full wipe.
I think the best suggestions have been posted already so I will just throw my support in with this "full wipe" thing. Yea it sucks that people would have to relevel and after all it is "open beta". Yes they said they wouldn't wipe but since when has a developer ever been obligated to abide by such a statement (especially when dealing with the long-term implications of certain exploits)? Since such things were said in confidence; that the aforementioned bugs were not in the game or not commonly know of at the time of that "promise". I have put a crazy amount of time into the game but honestly I find it fun regardless of what I'm doing so maybe that is my motivation behind my support. The way I see it is that as long as you are reimbursed for whatever real currency you put into the game you cant complain about having to redo something in a program that is free to play and thus legally unbinding. Your choice to play is a choice and merits nothing. You chose to put the time into the game so you obviously like it enough to play it regardless of a whipe. Yes people will freak if they lose their progress but after a few week I doubt anyone would care; save those who utilized an expoit to get something they didn't deserve. Enough said.
why a full wipe? I play so hard to get my equip...and i dont even see much ppl have the same equip like i do. so why full wipe? I think The delvs got the most exploiter.
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rapticorMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,078Arc User
edited May 2013
People were crying for a wipe because the economy was RUINED! Well guess what the economy seems to be fine so I'd say that's a big reason to not even consider the wipe thing. You can't expect a game to have a character wipe every time an exploit comes up. What if a major exploit is discovered after the game has been released are the Wipers going to want another wipe?
And saying the only people who would care about having their characters progress wiped out, or at least who would be against it, are those who exploited is insulting and pretty much invalidates your whole post. On my main character my played time is 10 days. I also have a second at level 45. As much as I enjoy the game there's no way I'm starting over at this point. The only way to appease me at that juncture will be to refund what I spent for HotN and also the Zen I bought.
Meh and that's your opinion just as I have stated mine. They are both legitimate. My argument is no less legitimate than your is simply because you believe otherwise. I play a game to have fun as well. You apparently play it for all of the pretty purples, which I do as well, but I realize that it's just a means to an ends. Obviously they didn't catch everyone and obviously it will be nearly impossible for them to take action to reverse something that went largely unnoticed for such a substantial amount of time. Were talking about them looking through probably billions of lines of information, negating any trades and auctions performed with exploited currency, then also pro-dating ever persons in-game wallet to reflect the subtraction of all exploited currency. Yea you may care if your pixels go away but that doesn't make you everyone; just as I can never understand everyone else's motivation. I'll just let the poll speak for itself. Pixels are pixels. The only thing they effect are your e-peen which honestly has absolutely no bearing on what a multi-million dollar company decides to do with it's software so yea...I'm sure your money can be refunded if it comes to that. I'm sure they have some sense of business ethics.
Last time the exploit was even bigger and a 7h rollback was the solution to this so I guess that this time it will most likely be done without a rollback.
And regarding the wipe thing - we were promised that there will be no wipes after April 25th, last exploit did prove that and so there are not going to be wipes - and the ridiculously small number for 1500 ppl demanding a wipe compared to the thousands, ten thousands and even more people playing and PAYING the game who actually do not even know about all this do count way more than some people believing a wipe can fix anything - until the next thing happens and they will demand another wipe - grow up and live with the fact that games suffering from an exploit or whatever do regulate themselves, best example is the ZEN / AD exchange from last time - the prices are back to normal again.
I have supported a wipe since watching the streamers. When you realize groups of 2-50 players per server, that intermingle have been doing things like negative bids, farming chests in instances, foundry leveling, set bonus exploiting (guardian fighter, CW), etc etc...you realize how fudged everything currently is.
A lot of the videos were deleted after the first rollback, but suffice it to say that when you have 10-15 accounts that literally can't hold more gold, items & AD...you've successfully ruined the economy once you start using the broker.
One of the streamers even posted a video on 'how to' not get caught exploiting the broker basically, he had farmed something like 10-15 of each of the CN pieces and simply stated that if he never put more then 1 set up at a time he could keep the price at several hundred thousand per item minimum. The examples of exploits like this are never-ending...neverwinter.
There are people that are just mass task adding to the 2 gold reward quest in the ice zone (no level requirement) on level toons...over and over and getting thousands of gold then buying whatever they want with gold, I wondered why everyone was pushing gold as the standard currency and it makes sense once I heard this.
lol ok..... At the end of the day it's pixels like I said. I don't care what they decide as they will do whatever is lucrative at the end of the day. If they can fix it internally; great. If they can't they will do whatever is needed to fix the issue. Kids will always get upset over dumb stuff. Such is life. It's a game and has little merit to anything. I'll still sleep regardless of whatever action is or isn't taken. No sweat off my back. Meh why am I even trying to defend myself in a poll again? lol w/e time to make a sandwich and get back to work. Real world> fake world, which is probably why I don't care >.> You guys are acting like it'll be the end of the world if a bunch of fake stuff disappears....now you tell me what sounds childish...
I bet all the economy issues can be resolved if we just do a wipe at the end of every Friday.
I mean, really, that seems to be what people are in favor of. Any time something happens, "Wipe! Wipe!"
So, why not just do a full wipe with every weekly maintenance period? Never again will the economy be ruined by glitches!
I bet all the economy issues can be resolved if we just do a wipe at the end of every Friday.
I mean, really, that seems to be what people are in favor of. Any time something happens, "Wipe! Wipe!"
So, why not just do a full wipe with every weekly maintenance period? Never again will the economy be ruined by glitches!
Because if they fixed the issues they're aware of and wiped it would fix it permanently. Just because you want to casual in your corner and could care less about the economy or the economic issues caused by all the exploits from launch to now doesn't mean everyone it effects doesn't care. You're as short sighted as you claim everyone else is, outward aggression seems to be inner reflection here.
Because if they fixed the issues they're aware of and wiped it would fix it permanently. Just because you want to casual in your corner and could care less about the economy or the economic issues caused by all the exploits from launch to now doesn't mean everyone it effects doesn't care. You're as short sighted as you claim everyone else is, outward aggression seems to be inner reflection here.
Thank you, Dr. Phill.
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tokkiraMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
Wipe the servers, fix the bugs, refund Zen & founders, give out special compensations like pack mule companions, bags, and bonuses to the beta testers for their support.
Then they are the problem not the solution.
This is a Beta. You are called Beta TESTERS for a reason. We are here to test the game and give insight on how to fix it. Not posting on the forums? you're not contributing to being a BETA TESTER and pretty much dead weight. Unless you're spending money.
Oh, sure. Get up on a high horse and claim people are here actually testing. Bull puckey. People are here just playing the game. I'd go so far as to guess that 99% of the people here are playing the game, too. So 99% of the population is just dead weight?
Go stick your head in the sand.
Also, it's been pretty much established by reputable MMO reviewers (Ten Ton Hammer, MMORPG.com, etc.) that indeed, if a game company is actually charging its customers for goods, then the game has moved from beta testing to launch. Some have even written articles calling Cryptic out on hiding its buggy, incomplete product behind the beta label as a method of avoidance, which I agree with.
I suppose if the game were out of beta I'd support a wipe without hesitation as well. I always felt that a beta is intended to leave the ground fertile for exploitation in order to hammer them out before releasing a "finished product." That being said, I support a full wipe when Neverwinter is no longer in "beta" and the player base aren't statistics and test data.
I do NOT support a full wipe. I dont give a **** about the in game economy. I play this game to kill monsters. The economy is fine anyway, and I put alot of time into my character. Time is more valuable than a pretend currency.
economy or the economic issues caused by all the exploits
Umm.....no. There's nothing wrong with the economy. The DAY AFTER the rollback, the exchange went right back to roughly 350-370 ad per zen. Market prices were normalized, and the feared economic disaster NEVER HAPPENED. It STILL HASN'T. Honestly, quit beating a dead horse. If you really want a wipe that bad.......then follow the simple directions I've provided.
I dont care who has cats, who has a trillion AD, and who has 100000 zen. None of that affects the monsters in the game. The pvp in this game is a joke anyway, so no wipe until the monsters start buying better gear and enchants so I cant kill them.
I suppose if the game were out of beta I'd support a wipe without hesitation as well. I always felt that a beta is intended to leave the ground fertile for exploitation in order to hammer them out before releasing a "finished product." That being said, I support a full wipe when Neverwinter is no longer in "beta" and the player base aren't statistics and test data.
There is one flaw with that thought. You are assuming that the exploiters would mass exploit in a beta where they cant profit from it. I suspect, most, would simply sit on an exploit and wait for release before abusing it. No point in letting the cat out of the bag when there is little gain from it.
You didn't see this level of abuse during the closed weekends. Despite many going on record saying they knew about the exploits at the time. You only saw the abuse when they knew they could profit from it. So saying you would find out about this stuff in beta is a bit of bunk.
Because if they fixed the issues they're aware of and wiped it would fix it permanently. Just because you want to casual in your corner and could care less about the economy or the economic issues caused by all the exploits from launch to now doesn't mean everyone it effects doesn't care. You're as short sighted as you claim everyone else is, outward aggression seems to be inner reflection here.
Until the next issue, to wit, the AH is currently down, again. So then we have next weekend's issue, which may well be as sock says, and the mobs get better enchants on their gear, and start roflstomping everyone.
Reading comprehension is essential in a medium that requires reading for communication.
Comments
no problem. Good luck on your adventure.
So you change wording of a statement to pass off as fact and something I said. I see what you did there. Very. "Gives him a pat on head" Good job kid, very clever.
Rolling Eyes
Mance
True Story haha 1+
We're not allowed to think that way, obviously. We're not supposed to hold a business accountable for what they say because reasons. The most common being: They have to wipe, or my ninja'd loot won't sell worth a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. So we have to reset and start over". I've actually seen that used.
They aren't going to return the time that I spent on the promise that there would be no wipe. They are not going to return my legitimately acquired crafting resources, as can be evidenced by the fact that I lost one of those to the rollback, and it's still gone. At least it's only one, instead of the others that I spent my time acquiring legitimately. I pay my own bills, and my time is valuable, to me. I don't know, or care, if you have 24/7 to play; I don't, and that's all that matters to me. This movement can quit devaluing my time any time it wants to. I would not have invested time or money into this game if they hadn't announced that there would be no more wipes. If they go back on that now, I will speak with my wallet.
Omigod. This is almost as bad as the hitler/<font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> ad hominem. You couldn't come up with anything better??
Civil rights only pertain to things insofar as -enjoyment- of the product goes. And it goes both ways. What makes your enjoyment more important than mine? Hmm? No, you just pulled a strawman argument.
Let me ask you this.
How many multi-million dollar income video games have you put out recently? Or even in your lifetime?
Cryptic has done four, counting this one.
How many times have you had to deal with the exact situation going on in the game?
Cryptic's got more experience than you, I'd wager.
What makes you think you know what's best for every. Single. Player. In. The. Game?
It's Cryptic's -business-. Let them run it. Or try to get Jack Emmert's position away from him. THEN you and your ilk can say what's right for the game.
What? You don't think that with the DOZENS OF OTHER THREADS ON THIS SUBJECT, they don't know already? Dead horse mean much to you? I'll reiterate with smaller words, just in case you didn't get it(kinda like a neutered dog) before.
They.
Already.
Said.
No.
Wipes.
Several.
Times.
Occam's Razor makes the cutting clean.
Then they are the problem not the solution.
This is a Beta. You are called Beta TESTERS for a reason. We are here to test the game and give insight on how to fix it. Not posting on the forums? you're not contributing to being a BETA TESTER and pretty much dead weight. Unless you're spending money.
And saying the only people who would care about having their characters progress wiped out, or at least who would be against it, are those who exploited is insulting and pretty much invalidates your whole post. On my main character my played time is 10 days. I also have a second at level 45. As much as I enjoy the game there's no way I'm starting over at this point. The only way to appease me at that juncture will be to refund what I spent for HotN and also the Zen I bought.
And regarding the wipe thing - we were promised that there will be no wipes after April 25th, last exploit did prove that and so there are not going to be wipes - and the ridiculously small number for 1500 ppl demanding a wipe compared to the thousands, ten thousands and even more people playing and PAYING the game who actually do not even know about all this do count way more than some people believing a wipe can fix anything - until the next thing happens and they will demand another wipe - grow up and live with the fact that games suffering from an exploit or whatever do regulate themselves, best example is the ZEN / AD exchange from last time - the prices are back to normal again.
Leave mine alone.
Thank you.
What I said
A lot of the videos were deleted after the first rollback, but suffice it to say that when you have 10-15 accounts that literally can't hold more gold, items & AD...you've successfully ruined the economy once you start using the broker.
One of the streamers even posted a video on 'how to' not get caught exploiting the broker basically, he had farmed something like 10-15 of each of the CN pieces and simply stated that if he never put more then 1 set up at a time he could keep the price at several hundred thousand per item minimum. The examples of exploits like this are never-ending...neverwinter.
There are people that are just mass task adding to the 2 gold reward quest in the ice zone (no level requirement) on level toons...over and over and getting thousands of gold then buying whatever they want with gold, I wondered why everyone was pushing gold as the standard currency and it makes sense once I heard this.
I mean, really, that seems to be what people are in favor of. Any time something happens, "Wipe! Wipe!"
So, why not just do a full wipe with every weekly maintenance period? Never again will the economy be ruined by glitches!
Because if they fixed the issues they're aware of and wiped it would fix it permanently. Just because you want to casual in your corner and could care less about the economy or the economic issues caused by all the exploits from launch to now doesn't mean everyone it effects doesn't care. You're as short sighted as you claim everyone else is, outward aggression seems to be inner reflection here.
Thank you, Dr. Phill.
Oh, sure. Get up on a high horse and claim people are here actually testing. Bull puckey. People are here just playing the game. I'd go so far as to guess that 99% of the people here are playing the game, too. So 99% of the population is just dead weight?
Go stick your head in the sand.
Also, it's been pretty much established by reputable MMO reviewers (Ten Ton Hammer, MMORPG.com, etc.) that indeed, if a game company is actually charging its customers for goods, then the game has moved from beta testing to launch. Some have even written articles calling Cryptic out on hiding its buggy, incomplete product behind the beta label as a method of avoidance, which I agree with.
Occam's Razor makes the cutting clean.
sign........same i think
Umm.....no. There's nothing wrong with the economy. The DAY AFTER the rollback, the exchange went right back to roughly 350-370 ad per zen. Market prices were normalized, and the feared economic disaster NEVER HAPPENED. It STILL HASN'T. Honestly, quit beating a dead horse. If you really want a wipe that bad.......then follow the simple directions I've provided.
Occam's Razor makes the cutting clean.
There is one flaw with that thought. You are assuming that the exploiters would mass exploit in a beta where they cant profit from it. I suspect, most, would simply sit on an exploit and wait for release before abusing it. No point in letting the cat out of the bag when there is little gain from it.
You didn't see this level of abuse during the closed weekends. Despite many going on record saying they knew about the exploits at the time. You only saw the abuse when they knew they could profit from it. So saying you would find out about this stuff in beta is a bit of bunk.
Until the next issue, to wit, the AH is currently down, again. So then we have next weekend's issue, which may well be as sock says, and the mobs get better enchants on their gear, and start roflstomping everyone.