Can we please stop referring to this game a BETA? Its actually insulting. I have participated in more beta's then I care to admit and never once have I ever paid for anything. The fact that I have to buy zen and there is an active item mall that requires real money means you are not in beta. So stop hiding behind the beta word as if its a shield to protect you from getting slammed for your actions. And if it is a beta I would like the money I spent on my founders pack returned at the end of beta!
The whole "BETA" moniker is a joke. Just like them saying the goal is to eventually combine all the servers. There is no reason to combine the servers other than to adjust for an eventually shrinking population. These are all PR tools to avoid the usual negative spin that accompanies events like this exploit or server mergers.
If you bought a toaster that said "BETA" on it in a department store, what would your expectation be? Should it make toast? Should it toast bagel's? If it didn't work should the department store refund your money. Do we want toast so bad that we will pay for a broken toaster in the hopes that the manufacturer will eventually give us a working toaster? What if we end up with a microwave or a sandwich press instead...then what?
And how does wiping fix this problem??? going by your rationale, wiping would be just as ineffective... either way they would have to start over on their scam.
they plug the hole they exploited remove all the corrupted AD's gold's Zen's and Items that this game suffer under thats what a wipe does a 7h rollback fix nothing but the last 7 hours of hectic puplic exploits, the puplic knew about the exploit for 2 days, and its been in the game for since close beta, nothing but a Wipe or a new server can fix this. that you try and defend it makes the rest of us think you came out of this unharmed and as one of the exploiters!
that fact that they wont fix the problem says it all, if they dont wipe or give us a new server, tell us that they as a company fail a 3rd time and dont have the balls to fix a problem they knew was there...
0
swagpaysmybillsMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 9Arc User
edited May 2013
I like how they don't roll back for the Guardian Fighter exploit which was still gamebreaking it killed the ancient market in general and made the gear as cheap as 1-4m. It also made the T2 gear in general worth a lot less with certain items crashing overnight with 7 more of these rare items appearing overnight Why didn't they roll back? This exploit wasn't losing them money it was mainly hurting certain players. I sometimes wish we could have developers like Blizzard who would shut servers down and come down hard on any exploiters. In a Blizzard game you know if you exploit you are banned in this game you exploit as hard as you can and if you did it early enough you should be good to get away with it. Anyway it doesn't bother me this game is over for semi-hardcores / hardcores / merchanters and it will not be long till the casuals and normals leave aswell. I doubt you guys will even see new content within the next month.
0
naryllfielMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 9Arc User
edited May 2013
Theoretically this game is in "Open Beta" and if this exploit was evident during closed and follow thru during this phase, then the game needs to be wiped. From what I am reading here and in FB it appears to be the case. This is unfair for all peeps like me who have worked hard in a game, spend over $100 on Zen online, and purchased the pack.
Open beta, like many other online games is an ongoing re-tooling of the game kinks before live official version. This can only be done with a larger player base...in this case, the exploit should have been addressed during closed and not run over into open. Games like this is like Allods who in Open beta used cash shop as a means of paying for the general management and upgrade of a game. If peeps don't like open beta, then purchase games like GW2 where there is absolutely no tolerance for exploits.
I support for a total wipe of the game, and in so doing repay all peeps who have honestly purchased Zen and packs. A clean running clean with a debugged game and fair economy without exploit is the best...NOW the in economy is tainted AND a lot of peeps have gotten away with it - really a 7 hour roll back is nothing XD
0
marksteeleMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
heres a question, what are you doing about all the other exploits that destroyed the game during the first week?
I love all the whining! 7 hours is too much, 7 hours isn't going to fix anything, this won't punish the culprits, this will punish all of us, WHY aren't you fixing what I say is the biggest problem(my personal favorite), OH NO! I will lose everything! What will happen to all the real money I spent????????? If all this has caused you sleepless nights then you should try out the new MMRPG "Realworld Therapy for digital fantasy games!" :rolleyes:
"pay to WIN"? Ok you win! now go away and let the rest of us "Play in Peace" without your whining!
If this was any kind of beta, they would have just wiped it and moved on. The fact they did not wipe it means it is NOT beta because they must preserve the legitimate, real money transactions that have occured. If they wiped those out, the game would have zero integrity and no one would ever spend a dime on it again.
Therefore, the fact they did not wipe after a gigantic screwup like this means this isn't beta and they must find another solution that is directly tired to preserving the real money transactions.
0
nodthesundererMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 7Arc User
People have to keep in mind that this is still BETA. For those who spent real money on this game, you will be refunded as PW stated. For the rest, stop whining.
we will be refunded our zen. What if we don't want the zen, but the extra diamonds we made from it that we no longer can get? I want a cash refund if zen goes back down to <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> 360 per prices and I loose about 1mil AD because of it.
we will be refunded our zen. What if we don't want the zen, but the extra diamonds we made from it that we no longer can get? I want a cash refund if zen goes back down to <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> 360 per prices and I loose about 1mil AD because of it.
The AD are/were counterfeit. Be happy IF you are lucky enough to get your Zen back.
Join Date
May 2013 interesting join date its the same with all of the other positive feedback so far anyone else noticing this
Read this, laughed, and have now moved on with life - ready to deal with the next stupid post someone decides to share with us.
0
papabear27Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 5Arc User
edited May 2013
As a Hero of the North, I would like the opportunity to start over as my compensation. I allocated some of the goodies from my founder package thinking they would be available to all my characters (astral diamonds for instance) and now wish I could undo the choices I made now that I've settled on a main. I don't mind starting from scratch again. I'm enjoying this game.
0
naryllfielMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 9Arc User
edited May 2013
yeah to wipe will effect a lot of peeps like me who have paid real money for Zen....and as it is I will not spend another dime for this game and wait for Elder Scrolls Online to come out....
I just started playing the game yesterday but I had been watching tons of streams and gameplay footage before deciding to install it. Prior to this weekend I hadn't seen anyone use this exploit in videos or streams so the people that had been using it were keeping it secret so they could continue to abuse it.
It is hard to say exactly but I would guess up until this weekend not many people were abusing this bug. Lets say 10% of this exploit usage happened from game launch until this weekend, and the other 90% happened just within the weekend. That doesn't seem to unrealistic... right? So for everyone who keeps bringing up how this has been going on since day 1; what exactly do you expect them to do about it? It is a situation of diminishing returns. They can rollback the game a few hours and resolve 90% of the exploiting, or they can rollback the game a few weeks just to resolve the other 10%. Granted all the numbers in that scenario are made up but the point still stands. I believe they made the right decision because rolling back the entire game just to deal with a few more people just doesn't seem reasonable. They even acknowledged that people have been doing this for longer than their rollback covers and they will try to trace those individuals back through their system logs to take the proper action. Now that they removed the bulk of the problem they can go back through and clean up the finer details.
If this was any kind of beta, they would have just wiped it and moved on. The fact they did not wipe it means it is NOT beta because they must preserve the legitimate, real money transactions that have occured. If they wiped those out, the game would have zero integrity and no one would ever spend a dime on it again.
Therefore, the fact they did not wipe after a gigantic screwup like this means this isn't beta and they must find another solution that is directly tired to preserving the real money transactions.
the fact they did't wipe the server or gave us a new server, means this game got ZERO INTEGRITY! everything you touch buy or sell or get is in some way corrupted on the 3 servers. so GG & HF!
Except when you ban someone from a Sub game it actually hurts them and has a sting to it, they have to buy another copy of the game to get a Account / CD Key and set up a new account / subscription to get up and running again.
Ban someone in a F2P game then go back to the website, make another free account and are back in the game doing exactly what they were doing 30 seconds before you banned them.
Even B2P games like GW2 are better off in that department as well, because again you still need to spend money to get back into the game after being banned.
F2P has too low of a barrier of entry, banning doesn't really do much of anything to people that want to cheat, exploit, hack, hurt, and destroy the game, it takes them about 30 seconds to setup a new account and get back into the game.
They really needed a wipe after this, it really is a shame.
There is something called IP-Ban, obviously you never heared of it..
0
bazdolinMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 1Arc User
edited May 2013
The most disappointing thing for me is that with all the experience of creating and working with MMOs at Perfect World, that this glitch still got into the game, took so long to be discovered and worst of all took so long for a solution to be reached and implemented. A failure at any one of those points would be understandable, to err is human after all. But for the safeguards I assume have been built into the game to fail at so many points strongly suggests a failure of design and leadership in their implementation.
0
dgbatchelorMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 6Arc User
The whole "BETA" moniker is a joke. Just like them saying the goal is to eventually combine all the servers. There is no reason to combine the servers other than to adjust for an eventually shrinking population. These are all PR tools to avoid the usual negative spin that accompanies events like this exploit or server mergers.
If you bought a toaster that said "BETA" on it in a department store, what would your expectation be? Should it make toast? Should it toast bagel's? If it didn't work should the department store refund your money. Do we want toast so bad that we will pay for a broken toaster in the hopes that the manufacturer will eventually give us a working toaster? What if we end up with a microwave or a sandwich press instead...then what?
That's comparing apples to oranges. If a piece of hardware were defective, there would be a recall. They would give you a refund or fix the product as they are obliged. When software is broken, you just have to wait for a fix that they are obliged to give. The Beta phase of testing is to find these types of errors and fix them. They are fixing them as they can. They have proven that. Some errors are so ingrained into the game code that it will take weeks or months to completely iron out and test. When there is a beta version of software, assume there are flaws and expect them to pop up at the most inconvenient time. The reason they asked for players to play the game is to find these errors in the fastest way possible. Some errors can only be found when on a massive scale.
Now, TBH I'm for a complete wipe. I like playing the game enough that I don't mind playing more. Some folk have made it sound like they have made it their lives' work to get where they are in a VIDEO GAME and their massive sense of entitlement makes them demand recompense. I have spent real money on this game, but there are caveats with any piece of software, beta or not. I knew this when I gave them my money. Some people seem to have ignored the warnings that they stated in the EULA and on their website. Have you never lost a saved game due to a crash or corruption? Same problem only this is on a much larger scale. There is no easy fix and boiling it down to your analogy is not only overly simplistic but radically illogical.
As far as PR spin goes, sure, they have to make the best of a bad situation and this was how they chose to do it. You can't make everyone happy all the time and they picked a course they thought was best. Squeaky wheels being what they are, I'm sure that there will be a lot of unhappy people choosing to spew their vitriol all over these forums. This is despite the fact they should have seen it coming...
0
kajiwhtMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 38
edited May 2013
I am missing 1000ZEN after the rollback (I used to buy AD at 450) before all hell went loose. Obviously I didnt know about the glitch else I wouldnt hav used my zen.
All I did is: I saw a guy shout in zone [THERES NO ZEN IN THE MARKET] so I decided to put 1000ZEN for 450k AD(450 a piece) and it sold really fast
I dont care if its 1000 ZEN or 450k AD either is fine I wasnt planning on spending that ZEN just did it coz I thought price was good
I love all the whining! 7 hours is too much, 7 hours isn't going to fix anything, this won't punish the culprits, this will punish all of us, WHY aren't you fixing what I say is the biggest problem(my personal favorite), OH NO! I will lose everything! What will happen to all the real money I spent????????? If all this has caused you sleepless nights then you should try out the new MMRPG "Realworld Therapy for digital fantasy games!" :rolleyes:
Not whining XD...peeps have a right to voice their opinion just as you have :-) For a lot of new peeps to mmo, something like this can be daunting. For the seasoned players we see this a lot with mmo, and it's our voice that can make the difference in getting game developers to work effectively in working out the kinks and putting out the best. Yes their goal is to make money, and to make money effectively it's also important they listen to the constructive feedback from their community :-)
I don't pay to win, in fact there are a lot of peep in games who spend RL money in game - we like the fantasy costumes, mounts, etc XD, but we also help a lot of peeps with time, etc. You will also be surprised who is behind the game face XD...I've met many CEOs, professionals, moms, husband and wife players, and peeps from all walks of life. Gaming for us is a way to chill from our busy RL regime, so please don't judge a books by its cover:-)
Many of us have had great experiences with mentors in game that we often give back to the gaming community.
soarianMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 6Arc User
edited May 2013
Christ. I played through all of the (kind of) annoying Chasm questline and went from 57 to 59.25. I'm not doing that again, and I also don't do alts. This is a complete cowpat of a response. Punish those guilty; not the rest of us. If the logs give it away, then go through them... not us!
I just started playing the game yesterday but I had been watching tons of streams and gameplay footage before deciding to install it. Prior to this weekend I hadn't seen anyone use this exploit in videos or streams so the people that had been using it were keeping it secret so they could continue to abuse it.
It is hard to say exactly but I would guess up until this weekend not many people were abusing this bug. Lets say 10% of this exploit usage happened from game launch until this weekend, and the other 90% happened just within the weekend. That doesn't seem to unrealistic... right? So for everyone who keeps bringing up how this has been going on since day 1; what exactly do you expect them to do about it? It is a situation of diminishing returns. They can rollback the game a few hours and resolve 90% of the exploiting, or they can rollback the game a few weeks just to resolve the other 10%. Granted all the numbers in that scenario are made up but the point still stands. I believe they made the right decision because rolling back the entire game just to deal with a few more people just doesn't seem reasonable. They even acknowledged that people have been doing this for longer than their rollback covers and they will try to trace those individuals back through their system logs to take the proper action. Now that they removed the bulk of the problem they can go back through and clean up the finer details.
OK lets say for arguments sake the 10% who did it before the 7 hour rewind moved the duped stuff to a mule account which in theory could have 50 char slots on it and each mule has 100 million Ad on it work out the figures on that and you will see how this could effect the whole integrity of the market.
With items changing hands like cats mounts etc all sold and traded for in game gold or even worse sold to gold selling sites it is a huge problem and would cost a lot of time effort and real life money for PWI to investigate every transaction on every account on every server. Then how about the ones who bought the items in good faith their accounts then come under scrutiny and could be banned for it and they did nothing wrong.
It is a very hard question for us to handle as a player base only PWI can resolve the issue and decide if they want this game to have Integrity from the onset of its life or not. They are in a bad place they are damned and berated if they dont and will be damned and berated if they do they are at this time in a no win situation.
You know i feel for them in this situation with all the work they have done so far with this game.
My issue is i got 2million id since i bought the founder pack i traded most of itfor zen a week after the game went into open beta,then i bough another 50us in zen,now i wonder if there would have been no exploit i might not have been forced to spend the 50us dollars to get a bag for my second account and some zen to buy some keys to unlock some of the chests mind you i still have another 38 to unlock.
I would like the 50us refunded and a new shard to start on with the 2million ad with none of those exploits left in the game.
There is something called IP-Ban, obviously you never heared of it..
There is something called dynamic IP's, obviously you have never heard of it... everyone these days can change their IP at the flick of a switch and if not they can usually call their ISP and have them reassign you a new one. IP bans cause more problems than they solve. For example if someone in a dorm was exploiting and they IP ban that person, it might also ban any other players of that game that live at that dorm.
they plug the hole they exploited remove all the corrupted AD's gold's Zen's and Items that this game suffer under thats what a wipe does a 7h rollback fix nothing but the last 7 hours of hectic puplic exploits, the puplic knew about the exploit for 2 days, and its been in the game for since close beta, nothing but a Wipe or a new server can fix this. that you try and defend it makes the rest of us think you came out of this unharmed and as one of the exploiters!
that fact that they wont fix the problem says it all, if they dont wipe or give us a new server, tell us that they as a company fail a 3rd time and dont have the balls to fix a problem they knew was there...
Pay attention please!!!! Nowhere in my post did I DEFEND either option.... I just pointed out, that whether they rollback, or wipe, (according to the origional posters rationale) they would just be back to doing it as soon as they made another account/character. unless the bug is fixed, neither way will be totally effective... and it does appear they are trying to fix the bug. Personaly I can see some merit, and drawbacks, to both ways, I was just asking the origional poster how wipe is better that rollback to stopping it... as it seemed he was saying.
Comments
The whole "BETA" moniker is a joke. Just like them saying the goal is to eventually combine all the servers. There is no reason to combine the servers other than to adjust for an eventually shrinking population. These are all PR tools to avoid the usual negative spin that accompanies events like this exploit or server mergers.
If you bought a toaster that said "BETA" on it in a department store, what would your expectation be? Should it make toast? Should it toast bagel's? If it didn't work should the department store refund your money. Do we want toast so bad that we will pay for a broken toaster in the hopes that the manufacturer will eventually give us a working toaster? What if we end up with a microwave or a sandwich press instead...then what?
they plug the hole they exploited remove all the corrupted AD's gold's Zen's and Items that this game suffer under thats what a wipe does a 7h rollback fix nothing but the last 7 hours of hectic puplic exploits, the puplic knew about the exploit for 2 days, and its been in the game for since close beta, nothing but a Wipe or a new server can fix this. that you try and defend it makes the rest of us think you came out of this unharmed and as one of the exploiters!
that fact that they wont fix the problem says it all, if they dont wipe or give us a new server, tell us that they as a company fail a 3rd time and dont have the balls to fix a problem they knew was there...
Open beta, like many other online games is an ongoing re-tooling of the game kinks before live official version. This can only be done with a larger player base...in this case, the exploit should have been addressed during closed and not run over into open. Games like this is like Allods who in Open beta used cash shop as a means of paying for the general management and upgrade of a game. If peeps don't like open beta, then purchase games like GW2 where there is absolutely no tolerance for exploits.
United Guild
https://www.facebook.com/groups/245990205544250/
I support for a total wipe of the game, and in so doing repay all peeps who have honestly purchased Zen and packs. A clean running clean with a debugged game and fair economy without exploit is the best...NOW the in economy is tainted AND a lot of peeps have gotten away with it - really a 7 hour roll back is nothing XD
Therefore, the fact they did not wipe after a gigantic screwup like this means this isn't beta and they must find another solution that is directly tired to preserving the real money transactions.
we will be refunded our zen. What if we don't want the zen, but the extra diamonds we made from it that we no longer can get? I want a cash refund if zen goes back down to <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> 360 per prices and I loose about 1mil AD because of it.
The AD are/were counterfeit. Be happy IF you are lucky enough to get your Zen back.
Read this, laughed, and have now moved on with life - ready to deal with the next stupid post someone decides to share with us.
United Guild
https://www.facebook.com/groups/245990205544250/
I just checked and lost my accumulations on both toons.
Exactly why I want my real money back. They can keep the zen.
^ Thiisssss
It is hard to say exactly but I would guess up until this weekend not many people were abusing this bug. Lets say 10% of this exploit usage happened from game launch until this weekend, and the other 90% happened just within the weekend. That doesn't seem to unrealistic... right? So for everyone who keeps bringing up how this has been going on since day 1; what exactly do you expect them to do about it? It is a situation of diminishing returns. They can rollback the game a few hours and resolve 90% of the exploiting, or they can rollback the game a few weeks just to resolve the other 10%. Granted all the numbers in that scenario are made up but the point still stands. I believe they made the right decision because rolling back the entire game just to deal with a few more people just doesn't seem reasonable. They even acknowledged that people have been doing this for longer than their rollback covers and they will try to trace those individuals back through their system logs to take the proper action. Now that they removed the bulk of the problem they can go back through and clean up the finer details.
the fact they did't wipe the server or gave us a new server, means this game got ZERO INTEGRITY! everything you touch buy or sell or get is in some way corrupted on the 3 servers. so GG & HF!
There is something called IP-Ban, obviously you never heared of it..
That's comparing apples to oranges. If a piece of hardware were defective, there would be a recall. They would give you a refund or fix the product as they are obliged. When software is broken, you just have to wait for a fix that they are obliged to give. The Beta phase of testing is to find these types of errors and fix them. They are fixing them as they can. They have proven that. Some errors are so ingrained into the game code that it will take weeks or months to completely iron out and test. When there is a beta version of software, assume there are flaws and expect them to pop up at the most inconvenient time. The reason they asked for players to play the game is to find these errors in the fastest way possible. Some errors can only be found when on a massive scale.
Now, TBH I'm for a complete wipe. I like playing the game enough that I don't mind playing more. Some folk have made it sound like they have made it their lives' work to get where they are in a VIDEO GAME and their massive sense of entitlement makes them demand recompense. I have spent real money on this game, but there are caveats with any piece of software, beta or not. I knew this when I gave them my money. Some people seem to have ignored the warnings that they stated in the EULA and on their website. Have you never lost a saved game due to a crash or corruption? Same problem only this is on a much larger scale. There is no easy fix and boiling it down to your analogy is not only overly simplistic but radically illogical.
As far as PR spin goes, sure, they have to make the best of a bad situation and this was how they chose to do it. You can't make everyone happy all the time and they picked a course they thought was best. Squeaky wheels being what they are, I'm sure that there will be a lot of unhappy people choosing to spew their vitriol all over these forums. This is despite the fact they should have seen it coming...
All I did is: I saw a guy shout in zone [THERES NO ZEN IN THE MARKET] so I decided to put 1000ZEN for 450k AD(450 a piece) and it sold really fast
I dont care if its 1000 ZEN or 450k AD either is fine I wasnt planning on spending that ZEN just did it coz I thought price was good
Anyone still searching for guilds you can check out HCG Hardcore Christian Gamers.
NW FAQ | HCG NW Host Site
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Not whining XD...peeps have a right to voice their opinion just as you have :-) For a lot of new peeps to mmo, something like this can be daunting. For the seasoned players we see this a lot with mmo, and it's our voice that can make the difference in getting game developers to work effectively in working out the kinks and putting out the best. Yes their goal is to make money, and to make money effectively it's also important they listen to the constructive feedback from their community :-)
I don't pay to win, in fact there are a lot of peep in games who spend RL money in game - we like the fantasy costumes, mounts, etc XD, but we also help a lot of peeps with time, etc. You will also be surprised who is behind the game face XD...I've met many CEOs, professionals, moms, husband and wife players, and peeps from all walks of life. Gaming for us is a way to chill from our busy RL regime, so please don't judge a books by its cover:-)
Many of us have had great experiences with mentors in game that we often give back to the gaming community.
United Guild
https://www.facebook.com/groups/245990205544250/
OK lets say for arguments sake the 10% who did it before the 7 hour rewind moved the duped stuff to a mule account which in theory could have 50 char slots on it and each mule has 100 million Ad on it work out the figures on that and you will see how this could effect the whole integrity of the market.
With items changing hands like cats mounts etc all sold and traded for in game gold or even worse sold to gold selling sites it is a huge problem and would cost a lot of time effort and real life money for PWI to investigate every transaction on every account on every server. Then how about the ones who bought the items in good faith their accounts then come under scrutiny and could be banned for it and they did nothing wrong.
It is a very hard question for us to handle as a player base only PWI can resolve the issue and decide if they want this game to have Integrity from the onset of its life or not. They are in a bad place they are damned and berated if they dont and will be damned and berated if they do they are at this time in a no win situation.
You know i feel for them in this situation with all the work they have done so far with this game.
I would like the 50us refunded and a new shard to start on with the 2million ad with none of those exploits left in the game.
There is something called dynamic IP's, obviously you have never heard of it... everyone these days can change their IP at the flick of a switch and if not they can usually call their ISP and have them reassign you a new one. IP bans cause more problems than they solve. For example if someone in a dorm was exploiting and they IP ban that person, it might also ban any other players of that game that live at that dorm.
Pay attention please!!!! Nowhere in my post did I DEFEND either option.... I just pointed out, that whether they rollback, or wipe, (according to the origional posters rationale) they would just be back to doing it as soon as they made another account/character. unless the bug is fixed, neither way will be totally effective... and it does appear they are trying to fix the bug. Personaly I can see some merit, and drawbacks, to both ways, I was just asking the origional poster how wipe is better that rollback to stopping it... as it seemed he was saying.