lordbane40Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 32
edited May 2013
People exploited and cheated their way to the end game days after release due to bugs. They ruined the economy since day 1 of "Open Beta" with BoE epics they farmed and Astral Diamonds they duped. Anyone who used the Astral Diamond Exchange legitimately has been ripped off since the beginning. This game was NOT ready for release to the public, especially with a functional cash shop and way to exchange exploited currency for real money.
There should have been a complete wipe and these bugs fixed.
The pieces of **** that exploited the bug are the ones to blame. A 5-year old could deduce that it would come to the attention of the game developers and that it would affect all gamers in some way when they fixed it. And I shouldnt have to remind you that its a free beta version.
when the auction house will be restored? and the items bought / sold in the auction house, will also be restored?
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lordbane40Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 32
edited May 2013
Or if not a complete wipe, keep the live servers running until they are ready for release, then give people an option to "cash out" of the existing, broken, exploit-ridden servers and restart on fresh shards without the exploits (e.g. they actually listen and FIX them) with their Founder Packs available to them there.
I never said I expected it to be perfect, but this is unacceptable. Bugs are expected and they are FINE. Major failures of entire systems that destroy your game are not fine. Yea I remember WoW, it was horrific and would be down for days at at time. I also know that was 8 years ago and you'd think someone would be smart enough to learn from their competitor's mistakes and not make them all over again.
But aren't you pointing out exactly those things that indicate they are still in beta? I agree that such game breaking problems should be fixed before a game is released. I think the big problem really comes from the insistence that they are not going to do any wipes while open beta is happening. That is what gives the impression that this is a "soft" release. If there were not any big problems that broke the game so thoroughly they probably could get away without wipes. After this round of problems I am starting to doubt that they can hold to the promise of no wipes.
On one hand they will make a lot of people mad with a wipe, but they will restore the integrity of the game, barring that no more game breaking issues arise. On the other hand, if there is no wipe, many players will have serious doubts about the integrity of the game economy.
The real truth is that it doesn't matter over the long term if there is a wipe or not. In both scenarios they will be able to build back their trust if the game gets fixed and no more big problems happen. I have to admit that seems unlikely at this juncture. There are likely to be several more big issues that are game breaking.
My advice to Cryptic is that they announce that there will be a wipe at some point in the future. The wipe should happen after Cryptic/PWE is confident that the game is stable and mark the end of open beta. Cryptic should refund all zen spent during this open beta period and start the game fresh as the official release.
The pieces of **** that exploited the bug are the ones to blame. A 5-year old could deduce that it would come to the attention of the game developers and that it would affect all gamers in some way when they fixed it. And I shouldnt have to remind you that its a free beta version.
Exploiters don't care about any of that. Many of them just have fun breaking the game and that is their goal. It is the same type of mentality where people think it is cool to insult other people, or get into fights. The never learned what is right or wrong, or simply don't care.
You obviously do not understand how DHCP works. DHCP will always seek to give you back the same IP address that you have been given previously. The only way that you do not get the same IP address back again is to stay offline long enough to let somebody else get assigned that address. Depending on how your ISP configures their DHCP settings that could mean that you need to stay offline for days before you will get a different IP address.
Unless...you do the really hard, really time demanding work of 5min of forcibly changing the MAC address and conecting to be assigned a new IP then change back and connect again. Fresh new IP right there. Do this aaaaallll the time when I get a really bad route or set of IPs.
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alreadytakentooMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
I'm very annoyed at all the talk about Cat. I got mine legitimately and felt awesome about it, as it's the best pet and very adorable. Now all the exploiters have it too, which no longer makes it cool, but rather more of a symbol of cheating than anything, which I haven't done.
This rollback seems to catch the tail end of the exploiters - the idiots who can't think for themselves and just follow other people around - these guys didn't benefit nearly as much as those who caught on early. I could be wrong, but I think this rollback was designed specifically to appease the large number of you who are easily pacified, as opposed to being designed to actually fix the problem.
I think setting a cap (or a lower cap if there is one) on AD and Zen bought with AD is a good Idea. I also think setting everyone at an amount of AD that will hit the exploiters hard would be a good thing. Maybe take all the AD that existed before some of these people turned them into real money over a reasonable amount someone could have earned by their own hard work, and distribute all the excess evenly among players. Take from the exploiters and give to everyone. Those of us who didn't cheat will get a nice little reward (sounds like all the exploiters will be getting the thank you packs, so woot! Thank you!). When something is given to everyone, it's not perceived as special any more - The AD they made will no longer be an issue because it will have been shared out for all to enjoy. The highest amount anyone has claimed to have earned on their own that I've seen in Facebook, Reddit, and Twitter comments, was 6.5Million. I'm sitting at about 200k, and if I saved everything and never spent any at all, I might have 2Million. With their programmers and some basic knowledge of math applied to their data, they should be able to figure out a reasonable cut-off.
I'm in the fix-the-bugs-and-do-a-full wipe group. I realize this would HAMSTER a lot of people off enough to quit and they'd then be stuck with a bunch of truth crusaders like me, which isn't the best option for their bottom line, but that's the only way I'm going to feel like we're all on the same playing field unless they do a wealth redistribution. If this was actually a BETA, they would do one or the other. Fact is, though, this is NOT Beta. This is a new game state they call beta to escape having to answer to experienced gamers. You see the effect of this all the time...all the idiots who say "it's in beta, people, give them a break!." (This is WHY they say it's in Beta - people like you.) No. It's not. and I won't. Stop being stupid.
Side-note for those of you asking about professions, All the AD I had my guys out getting from Leadership just vanished into dust when I collected my result. Was supposed to be 2800 and I got none of it. Which isn't a huge issue for me, but there's your answer. *Poof*
While I think people are vastly over-reacting I do agree that this will have an impact on NW's bottom line.
If there is something Cryptic needs to take from this it's that it's going to have to beef-up & speed up it's bug fixes.
If people reported this bug 9 months ago... I don't really know if it's defensible that it was still there. Especially a COMMERCE bug.. The truth is they need to put more focus on bugs. Cryptic has always been slow on them. I waited 3 years for them to fix the Champions "pick up object" bug.. still broken. Now they've had one that really hurts, so I hope they can increase the priority of bug fixing.
I also hope they go through ALL exploiter accounts (from 9 mo ago) & nuke em all. Or at least nuke everything they have, zen & AD down to 0.
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mysticaskMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 7Arc User
edited May 2013
Hi Im selling yesterday in auction all my Rank 7 enchants + weapon enchants + armor enchants all my property was in that enchants now I havent items and I havent money from that trade !!! I LOSE MORE THAN ONE MILION AD in material !! Give me AD or give me me back my enchants ! Im totaly in bankrot.
Hey, I lost 4 levels and 3 gold. Is there a way I can ever get them back? Can I simply get what I lost back instead of an item pack? How can I talk to a GM and how can I place a support ticket? =(
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sinamonMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Hey, I lost 4 levels and 3 gold. Is there a way I can ever get them back? Can I simply get what I lost back instead of an item pack? How can I talk to a GM and how can I place a support ticket? =(
They dont check the tickets thats obvious, Ive made multiple reports on different things and not once heard from a GM. They have the system there just for looks and dont do anything with it. Look at the fact this was reported in CB and still made it to release.
Q: What will happen to auctions that expired during the rollback window?
A: We do not anticipate that Auction House items will be lost. All items posted on the Auction House are still there, but do not show up as the Auction House is currently offline.
Auctions will expire as intended, though they will not be sent back immediately. They will be sent back when Auction House services are re-enabled.
So a item that is put into auction and have a low start bid (normally to draw attention to it) and expected to have a bid war towards the end. Will they be won by the current highest bid?
Contact support and explain the situation. I doubt that they were reviewing tickets last night as they were trying to fix this, and you unfortunately got caught in the cross-fire. That really sucks. But give them a chance to fix it before you go screaming to Reddit.
You are right, I need to give them a chance. Unfortunately I have been trying to connect to the support page all morning and it won't load the page. I'm assuming it's bogged down with a lot of traffic.
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vierzweinullMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 31Arc User
edited May 2013
Will we be refunded our posting prices on the Auction House? It's not our fault that they're going to expire; I find a loss of my posting prices to be unfair for sure, it's a risk I take to sell it, and it's having to stay up there and -not- sell b/c of exploiters. I won't lose "grand" amounts of AD b/c I wasn't posting anything at unreasonable prices, but I'm also "small time" without endgame characters, so a small loss is a big thing.
But aren't you pointing out exactly those things that indicate they are still in beta? I agree that such game breaking problems should be fixed before a game is released. I think the big problem really comes from the insistence that they are not going to do any wipes while open beta is happening. That is what gives the impression that this is a "soft" release. If there were not any big problems that broke the game so thoroughly they probably could get away without wipes. After this round of problems I am starting to doubt that they can hold to the promise of no wipes.
On one hand they will make a lot of people mad with a wipe, but they will restore the integrity of the game, barring that no more game breaking issues arise. On the other hand, if there is no wipe, many players will have serious doubts about the integrity of the game economy.
The real truth is that it doesn't matter over the long term if there is a wipe or not. In both scenarios they will be able to build back their trust if the game gets fixed and no more big problems happen. I have to admit that seems unlikely at this juncture. There are likely to be several more big issues that are game breaking.
My advice to Cryptic is that they announce that there will be a wipe at some point in the future. The wipe should happen after Cryptic/PWE is confident that the game is stable and mark the end of open beta. Cryptic should refund all zen spent during this open beta period and start the game fresh as the official release.
I agree that they need to wipe and start over. There is very little chance they find a significant portion of the counterfeit AD and even less chance that they actually find the legitimate items purchased with the counterfeit AD to launder it.
If they need to wipe, they better do it sooner rather than later. The people that don't understand the need will be outraged either way, but I can assure you they will be exponentially more outraged if PW waits another few days or a week to make this decision. Do it, refund the Zen, and bring the game back up when it is fixed. Piecemeal fixes will accomplish nothing and they will lose even more credibility if they wait to take the medicine. Do it now, get it over with, and start the very complicated job of rebuilding your reputation with your playerbase.
It was our original goal to avoid doing a rollback, but unfortunately we discovered that this was the only way to ensure that any illegitimate currency was removed from the game in a manner that was fair to all players.
Just a thought, but what about calculating how many diamonds a player could have, given a top rate of approx 5000 per day, add 10-15 % to account for AH sales, and anything over that is gone. If you had more than 2 times the max amount, your account is investigated and if you had taken the HAMSTER on AH, you get banned. Seems fairer than a roll back imo. You'd have punished the exploiters when leaving the honest players alone, most likely. Some honest players could possibly have lost, but not that many I'm guessing. Instead you've hurt everyone. How is that fairer?
I had about 3.9k-4k zen / 1.400.000 ad, some in zen some in AD listed for sale at various prices Saturday.
now the exchange reports no transactions, I have about 500k AD in listings for sale and I do not see anything to withdraw.
I agree that they need to wipe and start over. There is very little chance they find a significant portion of the counterfeit AD and even less chance that they actually find the legitimate items purchased with the counterfeit AD to launder it.
If they need to wipe, they better do it sooner rather than later. The people that don't understand the need will be outraged either way, but I can assure you they will be exponentially more outraged if PW waits another few days or a week to make this decision. Do it, refund the Zen, and bring the game back up when it is fixed. Piecemeal fixes will accomplish nothing and they will lose even more credibility if they wait to take the medicine. Do it now, get it over with, and start the very complicated job of rebuilding your reputation with your playerbase.
How about they fix the bug, ban exploiter and their associates accounts and open a new servers for all you care bears wanting a wipe? Because I for one don't have time or desire to go through lvling my toons and profs again.
This is why you don't include a cash shop and let people make purchases in an OPEN BETA.
When game breaking bugs are found, tis much easier to fix than if people have spent money on a broken product.
Why people would spend money in an incomplete and broken game flummoxes me in the first place.
Good thing I never spent a dime. Won't until the game goes officially live, either. If it ever makes it that far.
The problem is that you're still buying the claim that this is an "open beta". It's not. Open betas have data/character wipes before release. This is a full blown release with "open beta" stamped on it to lessen criticism of a game not ready/polished.
How about they fix the bug, ban exploiter and their associates accounts and open a new servers for all you care bears wanting a wipe? Because I for one don't have time or desire to go through lvling my toons and profs again.
Carebear because I want a game that isn't full of conterfeit currency and items purchased with counterfeit currency? Carebear because I want a game that isn't full of exploits and major system failures? If I'm a carebear, I have no idea what you are, but if you're happy being served a dog terd wrapped in plastic wrap and being told it's a Tootsie Roll, ENJOY you are welcome to it.
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lordbane40Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 32
edited May 2013
Cryptic had reports of the game-ruining bugs BEFORE releasing "Open Beta" and didn't fix them. They released the "Open Beta" knowing the game would be exploited immediately and legit players and paying customers would be screwed from the get go. THAT IS WHAT BURNS ME THE MOST. THEY KNEW!
Then, when they get the chance to set things right (e.g. announce a new server being launched with all the exploits fixed, then once ready, a full wipe of the exploited shards and refund of Zen people bought legitimately and their Founder rewards restored for the fixed servers), they waffle and take the cowards way out.
Thanks to their string of horrible decisions and utter incompetence, the exploiters and gold farming sites have destroyed a game not even a month into it's life.
This isn't specifically about the fixes or how effective they will be. I just love seeing all the posts that have the lines "All the hard work" I put in leveling my toon or farming AD. As soon as the words "hard work" go through your mind when it comes to a video game, its time to re-evaluate your life choices, maybe step away from the mouse and go outside for a bit. As soon as something that is supposed to be for entertainment starts to feel even remotely like work (not even hard work) and is no longer fun, I call it quits.
I'm also wondering as to what the reaction is of the folks that used the exploit. It would seem to me that they are much like trolls and are just sitting back and laughing at all this craziness they helped cause.
May 6 at 6:15am at facebook site, one man posted the bug. U can see it even now. I will not post the site here were i did find this news, but gonna post what he wrote.
_____________
Myself and several of my guild mates reported the exploit, in game, both the day the open beta started, and 2 days later again when it appeared we were ignored. I even personally went so far as to post on the forums, facebook, & twitter that I had found a exploit that could destroy the economy, and asked that someone contact me for details. No one ever contacted me at all about any of it.
I was asked for proof of this so I dug up one of the facebook posts I made in regards to it on May6th. Given prior attempts to report this exploit had gone on deaf ears, I actually posted it in response to a "how was your NW weekend" post that one of the Cryptic employee's was being active in in hopes that I would actually get some attention. Needless to say, my post was ignored like all of the others.
I found a potentially game breaking bug that could pretty much destroy the economy of the game. But can't get ahold of anyone to discuss it with. Have left bug reports, support tickets, and even posted on the forums that someone get in contact with me.
How about they fix the bug, ban exploiter and their associates accounts and open a new servers for all you care bears wanting a wipe? Because I for one don't have time or desire to go through lvling my toons and profs again.
Oh give me a break! Leveling is so fast in this game that it is a joke! You can level from 1-60 in a couple days if you put the time in. If you don't have the time then it may take you all of two or three weeks, absolute maximum. Wow, that is such a major imposition! If you are complaining about that then you obviously have no plans on playing this game for very long anyway and losing you really isn't much of a problem.
Comments
There should have been a complete wipe and these bugs fixed.
But aren't you pointing out exactly those things that indicate they are still in beta? I agree that such game breaking problems should be fixed before a game is released. I think the big problem really comes from the insistence that they are not going to do any wipes while open beta is happening. That is what gives the impression that this is a "soft" release. If there were not any big problems that broke the game so thoroughly they probably could get away without wipes. After this round of problems I am starting to doubt that they can hold to the promise of no wipes.
On one hand they will make a lot of people mad with a wipe, but they will restore the integrity of the game, barring that no more game breaking issues arise. On the other hand, if there is no wipe, many players will have serious doubts about the integrity of the game economy.
The real truth is that it doesn't matter over the long term if there is a wipe or not. In both scenarios they will be able to build back their trust if the game gets fixed and no more big problems happen. I have to admit that seems unlikely at this juncture. There are likely to be several more big issues that are game breaking.
My advice to Cryptic is that they announce that there will be a wipe at some point in the future. The wipe should happen after Cryptic/PWE is confident that the game is stable and mark the end of open beta. Cryptic should refund all zen spent during this open beta period and start the game fresh as the official release.
Exploiters don't care about any of that. Many of them just have fun breaking the game and that is their goal. It is the same type of mentality where people think it is cool to insult other people, or get into fights. The never learned what is right or wrong, or simply don't care.
Unless...you do the really hard, really time demanding work of 5min of forcibly changing the MAC address and conecting to be assigned a new IP then change back and connect again. Fresh new IP right there. Do this aaaaallll the time when I get a really bad route or set of IPs.
This rollback seems to catch the tail end of the exploiters - the idiots who can't think for themselves and just follow other people around - these guys didn't benefit nearly as much as those who caught on early. I could be wrong, but I think this rollback was designed specifically to appease the large number of you who are easily pacified, as opposed to being designed to actually fix the problem.
I think setting a cap (or a lower cap if there is one) on AD and Zen bought with AD is a good Idea. I also think setting everyone at an amount of AD that will hit the exploiters hard would be a good thing. Maybe take all the AD that existed before some of these people turned them into real money over a reasonable amount someone could have earned by their own hard work, and distribute all the excess evenly among players. Take from the exploiters and give to everyone. Those of us who didn't cheat will get a nice little reward (sounds like all the exploiters will be getting the thank you packs, so woot! Thank you!). When something is given to everyone, it's not perceived as special any more - The AD they made will no longer be an issue because it will have been shared out for all to enjoy. The highest amount anyone has claimed to have earned on their own that I've seen in Facebook, Reddit, and Twitter comments, was 6.5Million. I'm sitting at about 200k, and if I saved everything and never spent any at all, I might have 2Million. With their programmers and some basic knowledge of math applied to their data, they should be able to figure out a reasonable cut-off.
I'm in the fix-the-bugs-and-do-a-full wipe group. I realize this would HAMSTER a lot of people off enough to quit and they'd then be stuck with a bunch of truth crusaders like me, which isn't the best option for their bottom line, but that's the only way I'm going to feel like we're all on the same playing field unless they do a wealth redistribution. If this was actually a BETA, they would do one or the other. Fact is, though, this is NOT Beta. This is a new game state they call beta to escape having to answer to experienced gamers. You see the effect of this all the time...all the idiots who say "it's in beta, people, give them a break!." (This is WHY they say it's in Beta - people like you.) No. It's not. and I won't. Stop being stupid.
Side-note for those of you asking about professions, All the AD I had my guys out getting from Leadership just vanished into dust when I collected my result. Was supposed to be 2800 and I got none of it. Which isn't a huge issue for me, but there's your answer. *Poof*
If there is something Cryptic needs to take from this it's that it's going to have to beef-up & speed up it's bug fixes.
If people reported this bug 9 months ago... I don't really know if it's defensible that it was still there. Especially a COMMERCE bug.. The truth is they need to put more focus on bugs. Cryptic has always been slow on them. I waited 3 years for them to fix the Champions "pick up object" bug.. still broken. Now they've had one that really hurts, so I hope they can increase the priority of bug fixing.
I also hope they go through ALL exploiter accounts (from 9 mo ago) & nuke em all. Or at least nuke everything they have, zen & AD down to 0.
They dont check the tickets thats obvious, Ive made multiple reports on different things and not once heard from a GM. They have the system there just for looks and dont do anything with it. Look at the fact this was reported in CB and still made it to release.
So a item that is put into auction and have a low start bid (normally to draw attention to it) and expected to have a bid war towards the end. Will they be won by the current highest bid?
(Sighs and shakes head)
You are right, I need to give them a chance. Unfortunately I have been trying to connect to the support page all morning and it won't load the page. I'm assuming it's bogged down with a lot of traffic.
This is why you don't include a cash shop and let people make purchases in an OPEN BETA.
When game breaking bugs are found, tis much easier to fix than if people have spent money on a broken product.
Why people would spend money in an incomplete and broken game flummoxes me in the first place.
Good thing I never spent a dime. Won't until the game goes officially live, either. If it ever makes it that far.
Occam's Razor makes the cutting clean.
You're kidding yourself if you think the game breaking bugs will cease the moment the open beta tag is removed from the game.
I agree that they need to wipe and start over. There is very little chance they find a significant portion of the counterfeit AD and even less chance that they actually find the legitimate items purchased with the counterfeit AD to launder it.
If they need to wipe, they better do it sooner rather than later. The people that don't understand the need will be outraged either way, but I can assure you they will be exponentially more outraged if PW waits another few days or a week to make this decision. Do it, refund the Zen, and bring the game back up when it is fixed. Piecemeal fixes will accomplish nothing and they will lose even more credibility if they wait to take the medicine. Do it now, get it over with, and start the very complicated job of rebuilding your reputation with your playerbase.
Just a thought, but what about calculating how many diamonds a player could have, given a top rate of approx 5000 per day, add 10-15 % to account for AH sales, and anything over that is gone. If you had more than 2 times the max amount, your account is investigated and if you had taken the HAMSTER on AH, you get banned. Seems fairer than a roll back imo. You'd have punished the exploiters when leaving the honest players alone, most likely. Some honest players could possibly have lost, but not that many I'm guessing. Instead you've hurt everyone. How is that fairer?
now the exchange reports no transactions, I have about 500k AD in listings for sale and I do not see anything to withdraw.
How about they fix the bug, ban exploiter and their associates accounts and open a new servers for all you care bears wanting a wipe? Because I for one don't have time or desire to go through lvling my toons and profs again.
The problem is that you're still buying the claim that this is an "open beta". It's not. Open betas have data/character wipes before release. This is a full blown release with "open beta" stamped on it to lessen criticism of a game not ready/polished.
Carebear because I want a game that isn't full of conterfeit currency and items purchased with counterfeit currency? Carebear because I want a game that isn't full of exploits and major system failures? If I'm a carebear, I have no idea what you are, but if you're happy being served a dog terd wrapped in plastic wrap and being told it's a Tootsie Roll, ENJOY you are welcome to it.
Then, when they get the chance to set things right (e.g. announce a new server being launched with all the exploits fixed, then once ready, a full wipe of the exploited shards and refund of Zen people bought legitimately and their Founder rewards restored for the fixed servers), they waffle and take the cowards way out.
Thanks to their string of horrible decisions and utter incompetence, the exploiters and gold farming sites have destroyed a game not even a month into it's life.
I'm also wondering as to what the reaction is of the folks that used the exploit. It would seem to me that they are much like trolls and are just sitting back and laughing at all this craziness they helped cause.
_____________
Myself and several of my guild mates reported the exploit, in game, both the day the open beta started, and 2 days later again when it appeared we were ignored. I even personally went so far as to post on the forums, facebook, & twitter that I had found a exploit that could destroy the economy, and asked that someone contact me for details. No one ever contacted me at all about any of it.
I was asked for proof of this so I dug up one of the facebook posts I made in regards to it on May6th. Given prior attempts to report this exploit had gone on deaf ears, I actually posted it in response to a "how was your NW weekend" post that one of the Cryptic employee's was being active in in hopes that I would actually get some attention. Needless to say, my post was ignored like all of the others.
I found a potentially game breaking bug that could pretty much destroy the economy of the game. But can't get ahold of anyone to discuss it with. Have left bug reports, support tickets, and even posted on the forums that someone get in contact with me.
Oh give me a break! Leveling is so fast in this game that it is a joke! You can level from 1-60 in a couple days if you put the time in. If you don't have the time then it may take you all of two or three weeks, absolute maximum. Wow, that is such a major imposition! If you are complaining about that then you obviously have no plans on playing this game for very long anyway and losing you really isn't much of a problem.