I have not voted on this, simply because although we like to feel we have an over powering voice in numbers and for as many that threaten this and that if action is not taken in accordance to their wishes, lets look at things rationally.
First this is damage control not a cataclysm, they are working to find the most beneficial method of rectifying the issue without having to resort to the obvious solution. Many believe that the simpliest answer is the best, not so, not when you are dealing with mass numbers of people, many of which have invested time and anyone who lives in the real world will understand how fickle time can be and how even from day to day the amount available for recreation can be quite limited. With that said lots of players obviously have lots of time they are willing to put into this game and as such a wipe will affect them, but it's not like it matters cause they were going to use that time to play the game anyhow.
The next point is that no matter how much people threaten, for each person crying out injustice and how they are going to leave for this that and the other, they've already left even if they haven't already, there are others who will stick it out and more will come and those who left will be like grains of sand on a beach.
Now do I think nothing should be done? No, I believe they should, if possible and feasibly plausible without too many losses, scrutinize all accounts which have at any point made exceptionally high astral diamond purchases, indicate the seller, compare all account data between the two accounts, therefore cross referencing for similarities, paying very close attention to accounts that are very new, have low level characters selling for insane prices and making the sales and have not bought any Zen. This is something that is incredibly time consuming and requires a lot of data to be accessible to the moderators of the game, I don't know that it is exactly possible or plausible and it certainly isn't an end all solution, but if nothing else it is an alternative to consider.
Now that shared I'm not up in arms about all this, I don't see a point. So long as what I've put in, currency wise, I don't lose or I am refunded for, I am fine with whatever PWE goes with, after all it's their game, their choice to make it succeed or fail.
I agree!! has anyone at Cryptic taken note of the top of this page? A full 61% of your player base are demanding a complete wipe, including almost all of us who paid to see this game become reality. Wake up and smell the roses! It will cost you a lot more to not wipe then to wipe.
61% of the people answering the poll are demanding a complete wipe.
Very important difference, as i doubt everyone is reading forums, or answering the poll.
Anyway, i'm againt wipe, this is a time for targeted hits (and AH rollback), not nuking the HAMSTER out of everything.
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pahnyeMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
61% of the people answering the poll are demanding a complete wipe.
Very important difference, as i doubt everyone is reading forums, or answering the poll.
Anyway, i'm againt wipe, this is a time for targeted hits (and AH rollback), not nuking the HAMSTER out of everything.
Ok, as of right now 2206 people have answered the poll. Any polling organization in the world would consider that a fair representative number and set the public concern at 61%. I say that's a high enough number that it should be considered.
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sifumazzMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
Complete wipe, restore all purchased zen and AD to their original values, everyone have as much fun leveling their characters again as they did the first time. What else is there to say. This game is fun
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ixoniumMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
There will be no wipe. Simply because people paid $200 for a 5 day head start and on the basis that there would be no character wipe.
If there's a wipe i would want a full refund for game and all of the zen i purchased on the basis of the written public statement (often repeated in the forums) that there wouldn't be a wipe. I will then take my money somewhere else along with all the other people i know who bought the $200 pack.
Then the same Trolls QQ'ing that they want a wipe can QQ about the Zen price hitting 800AD as the supply of ZEN dries up with the exodus of paying players.
I can accept a rollback,
I can accept an emergency mantainence
I can accept the economy being still for a while.
BUT I DO NOT ACCEPT JUST A 72 hours for exploiters who abused the sistem for MILIONS.
This is like giving a big "you should have done that aswell" slap to non exploiters face, which is outrageous.
A complete wipe is the only solution, BUT, only after you fixed all the exploitable stuff and you gotta constantly monitor the economy to prevent this to happen again.
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crow2000Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
Anyone who exploited should be banned, anyone who profited as a third party (IE: Secondary accounts of the exploiters which is usually what happens in F2P games) should be completely wiped. Any auctions associated with an Exploiter or third party profiteer accounts should be wiped & all other Auctions on the A/H should be cancelled (items returned to original posters) so we can start again.
If they have founders items tough luck ban or wipe them anyway.
gungadorMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 4Arc User
edited May 2013
I am fully in support of a full wipe since when you look at it the game is still "open beta" I know that PWG has soft launched it.
However with the "open beta" tag still attached I understand it as in the final testing stages before the full official (gold) release. I am really proud of the guys for catching the duping/exploits. I understand in the last few days it got out of control. But (hats off) to the people at PWG for catching it and shutting things down to get a fix.
However..... With the game still being in a test stage then I fully support a wipe when it goes live. I don't get a lot of time to play but I and my friends have had a great time exploring the world so far.
I guess not to sound like a broken record but its something that hasn't been brought up much is that the fact that every other game I have Alpha/beta or open beta tested there has ALWAYS been a wipe before official launch. With this game currently tagged as "OPEN BETA" I honestly can't see how they can't do a full wipe.
But then again this is my view
0
clockwerkninjaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
A full wipe is the only way to fix this mess. Anything else will not do. The dev's have to know this, time and time again it has been proven in MMO games. You have to be strict with the economics.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Quote Originally Posted by roents
It's an "open beta" that can't be wiped even in the midst of multiple economy destroying exploits. FUN
Leveling is quite interesting in this game... but only if you're doing it for the fist time. So, if wipe is the only way to fix ruined ingame economy, give us a sort of compensation for the time we've spent killing those zombies and skeletons and whatever. Something like ~500% of extra exp. in 24-48h after wipe.
Ban Cryptic itself starting from the top for making such childish mistakes in their coding,while expecting to get profit,then blaming people for finding these mistakes.
That's like hiding candies all over the house then punishing your kids for finding them and eating them lol.
So i vote for the 3rd option to ban your programming team,hire more people to respond in your bug/exploit reports instead of trying to maximize profit and thank exploiters for pointing out your mistakes,wipe for a clean start and when all known bugs exploits are fixed,even if that takes a month,then maybe this game has a decent future.
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crow2000Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Ok, as of right now 2206 people have answered the poll. Any polling organization in the world would consider that a fair representative number and set the public concern at 61%. I say that's a high enough number that it should be considered.
Incorrect & your polling methodology is flawed. So far all respondents are forum users & as with many games, forum users generally only make up between 20-30% of the population. Right now your poll is only being seen by at best 30% of the games population (if every forum user has indeed seen this thread, which I doubt) and these are relatively devoted players therefore their opinions are different from players fitting into other categories.
To get a realistic indication they need to:
- Offer all players ingame the opportunity to read and respond to the Poll (if they choose to) on an account by account basis.
- collect a minimum of 10,000 people polled or preferably 40-50% of the entire games population.
If they did this I suspect the results would be quite different.
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ixoniumMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
A new shard is a good idea. Let the people who want a wipe re-roll there, it wont penalize others who don't want a wipe and it would be very interesting to see how many people actually move across and even more interesting to compare the two economies.
There will be no wipe. Simply because people paid $200 for a 5 day head start and on the basis that there would be no character wipe.
If there's a wipe i would want a full refund for game and all of the zen i purchased on the basis of the written public statement (often repeated in the forums) that there wouldn't be a wipe. I will then take my money somewhere else along with all the other people i know who bought the $200 pack.
Then the same Trolls QQ'ing that they want a wipe can QQ about the Zen price hitting 800AD as the supply of ZEN dries up with the exodus of paying players.
Sure...... people spent $200 JUST for a 5 day head start, not the unique mount, not the ad, not the bonus slots, or bags. They spent $200 so they could get a head start.
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eseregonMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 14Arc User
edited May 2013
To state many of us that ask for a wipe are QQg/Trolling etc... I state a wipe to insure every possible BS exploited AD is gone and everyone starts fresh on equal ground. If that means I lose my level 60 fully epic'd out GWF and my other 4 characters I am playing and have to start them all over, so be it. At least I can have faith in playing the MMO I am by a company that does not take such things happening with a blind eye. It will make the next person thinking of exploiting rethink beforehand.
It is not about QQg or trolling, it is about taking a stand on a thief and make all the rest of the community understand you will not take it calmly.
Incorrect & your polling methodology is flawed. So far all respondents are forum users & as with many games, forum users generally only make up between 20-30% of the population. Right now your poll is only being seen by at best 30% of the games population (if every forum user has indeed seen this thread, which I doubt) and these are relatively devoted players therefore their opinions are different from players fitting into other categories.
To get a realistic indication they need to:
- Offer all players ingame the opportunity to read and respond to the Poll (if they choose to) on an account by account basis.
- collect a minimum of 10,000 people polled or preferably 40-50% of the entire games population.
If they did this I suspect the results would be quite different.
Account by account basis is very inaccurate, given that likely there're quite a few people who have multiple accounts, of which are likely to be biased against a wipe. Also, you don't need such a large sample size for some semblence of statistical accuracy, so long as selection is even and fair.
Actually, gallup polls use a 1000 people as a sample size, and they generally are accurate to about +-5% when compared to larger (10k +) sample groups, now, that being said, a proper method would be to email 1000 random users to ensure that you're getting a wide enough sample group, not just forum regulars
As much as it would pain me to lose my progress I do consider this beta (and that's what they are calling it!), so a wipe...so long as I get the zen I've spent back.
Wipe of course IF there was no more bugs/hacks...But I play NW mostly for the titles and the story-line, I am not really ready to kill another 500 bandits/goblins/what-so-ever, and realize that the newt Hack Of the Month is still to be discovered. Just fix the current exploit, punish peeps who have been using it and basta. Eventually rollback if things have gone too far in the last 24 hours...
...now, that being said, a proper method would be to email 1000 random users to ensure that you're getting a wide enough sample group, not just forum regulars
^^^ This. All these polls are utterly pointless if they rely solely on forum contributors. In case anyone hadn't noticed, forums are predominately inhabited by people with a problem with the game, not those who are satisfied with it. Just a thought
Sure...... people spent $200 JUST for a 5 day head start, not the unique mount, not the ad, not the bonus slots, or bags. They spent $200 so they could get a head start.
Yes i did pay for the headstart, i can buy all the fluff items and mounts from the store, in fact i did buy a lot of bags, companions etc from the store. What i cant buy from the store is 5 days where i can plan my time, take time off work and simply level without being caught in the zerg. So did the others i play with who bought the $200 pack.
wipe it. Just because you said you wouldnt wipe doesnt mean you can no longer wipe. How can you not listen to your player base on this one. Even the people who spent real money support this. Don't let your pride get in the way of listening to your customers which is the most important thing.
I played Ragnarok Online back in the day, I'm immune to wipes and rollbacks now. If a rollback or wipe happens you could give out something small like a reset token or free bag.
Comments
I have not voted on this, simply because although we like to feel we have an over powering voice in numbers and for as many that threaten this and that if action is not taken in accordance to their wishes, lets look at things rationally.
First this is damage control not a cataclysm, they are working to find the most beneficial method of rectifying the issue without having to resort to the obvious solution. Many believe that the simpliest answer is the best, not so, not when you are dealing with mass numbers of people, many of which have invested time and anyone who lives in the real world will understand how fickle time can be and how even from day to day the amount available for recreation can be quite limited. With that said lots of players obviously have lots of time they are willing to put into this game and as such a wipe will affect them, but it's not like it matters cause they were going to use that time to play the game anyhow.
The next point is that no matter how much people threaten, for each person crying out injustice and how they are going to leave for this that and the other, they've already left even if they haven't already, there are others who will stick it out and more will come and those who left will be like grains of sand on a beach.
Now do I think nothing should be done? No, I believe they should, if possible and feasibly plausible without too many losses, scrutinize all accounts which have at any point made exceptionally high astral diamond purchases, indicate the seller, compare all account data between the two accounts, therefore cross referencing for similarities, paying very close attention to accounts that are very new, have low level characters selling for insane prices and making the sales and have not bought any Zen. This is something that is incredibly time consuming and requires a lot of data to be accessible to the moderators of the game, I don't know that it is exactly possible or plausible and it certainly isn't an end all solution, but if nothing else it is an alternative to consider.
Now that shared I'm not up in arms about all this, I don't see a point. So long as what I've put in, currency wise, I don't lose or I am refunded for, I am fine with whatever PWE goes with, after all it's their game, their choice to make it succeed or fail.
im sure there are billions of AD on mule accounts, pw cannot get all of it out
i will not spend anymore cash than i already have if people can just keep their ill gotten gains
61% of the people answering the poll are demanding a complete wipe.
Very important difference, as i doubt everyone is reading forums, or answering the poll.
Anyway, i'm againt wipe, this is a time for targeted hits (and AH rollback), not nuking the HAMSTER out of everything.
Ok, as of right now 2206 people have answered the poll. Any polling organization in the world would consider that a fair representative number and set the public concern at 61%. I say that's a high enough number that it should be considered.
If there's a wipe i would want a full refund for game and all of the zen i purchased on the basis of the written public statement (often repeated in the forums) that there wouldn't be a wipe. I will then take my money somewhere else along with all the other people i know who bought the $200 pack.
Then the same Trolls QQ'ing that they want a wipe can QQ about the Zen price hitting 800AD as the supply of ZEN dries up with the exodus of paying players.
I can accept an emergency mantainence
I can accept the economy being still for a while.
BUT I DO NOT ACCEPT JUST A 72 hours for exploiters who abused the sistem for MILIONS.
This is like giving a big "you should have done that aswell" slap to non exploiters face, which is outrageous.
A complete wipe is the only solution, BUT, only after you fixed all the exploitable stuff and you gotta constantly monitor the economy to prevent this to happen again.
If they have founders items tough luck ban or wipe them anyway.
This is an open beta. Start treating it like one.
However with the "open beta" tag still attached I understand it as in the final testing stages before the full official (gold) release. I am really proud of the guys for catching the duping/exploits. I understand in the last few days it got out of control. But (hats off) to the people at PWG for catching it and shutting things down to get a fix.
However..... With the game still being in a test stage then I fully support a wipe when it goes live. I don't get a lot of time to play but I and my friends have had a great time exploring the world so far.
I guess not to sound like a broken record but its something that hasn't been brought up much is that the fact that every other game I have Alpha/beta or open beta tested there has ALWAYS been a wipe before official launch. With this game currently tagged as "OPEN BETA" I honestly can't see how they can't do a full wipe.
But then again this is my view
Quote Originally Posted by roents
It's an "open beta" that can't be wiped even in the midst of multiple economy destroying exploits. FUN
That's like hiding candies all over the house then punishing your kids for finding them and eating them lol.
So i vote for the 3rd option to ban your programming team,hire more people to respond in your bug/exploit reports instead of trying to maximize profit and thank exploiters for pointing out your mistakes,wipe for a clean start and when all known bugs exploits are fixed,even if that takes a month,then maybe this game has a decent future.
Incorrect & your polling methodology is flawed. So far all respondents are forum users & as with many games, forum users generally only make up between 20-30% of the population. Right now your poll is only being seen by at best 30% of the games population (if every forum user has indeed seen this thread, which I doubt) and these are relatively devoted players therefore their opinions are different from players fitting into other categories.
To get a realistic indication they need to:
- Offer all players ingame the opportunity to read and respond to the Poll (if they choose to) on an account by account basis.
- collect a minimum of 10,000 people polled or preferably 40-50% of the entire games population.
If they did this I suspect the results would be quite different.
Sure...... people spent $200 JUST for a 5 day head start, not the unique mount, not the ad, not the bonus slots, or bags. They spent $200 so they could get a head start.
It is not about QQg or trolling, it is about taking a stand on a thief and make all the rest of the community understand you will not take it calmly.
Account by account basis is very inaccurate, given that likely there're quite a few people who have multiple accounts, of which are likely to be biased against a wipe. Also, you don't need such a large sample size for some semblence of statistical accuracy, so long as selection is even and fair.
http://www.raosoft.com/samplesize.html
This is an open beta. Start treating it like one.
- Titania Silverblade, the Iron Rose of Myth Drannor (Lvl 60 GWF, Destroyer)
- Gwyneth, the Cowardly Cat Burglar Drowling (Lvl 60 TR, Saboteur)
- Lady Rowanne Firehair, Heartwarder of Sune (Lvl 33 DC)
- Satella, Sensate (LvL 44 CW, Renegade, Non-Active)
Check Steppenkat's Foundry Quest Reviews!
^^^ This. All these polls are utterly pointless if they rely solely on forum contributors. In case anyone hadn't noticed, forums are predominately inhabited by people with a problem with the game, not those who are satisfied with it. Just a thought
there is your answer
It is still an open Beta, not even a 'Final' Beta
Yes i did pay for the headstart, i can buy all the fluff items and mounts from the store, in fact i did buy a lot of bags, companions etc from the store. What i cant buy from the store is 5 days where i can plan my time, take time off work and simply level without being caught in the zerg. So did the others i play with who bought the $200 pack.