turlamMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
Full wipe is by far the worst thing for a fix. Balance the scales and at the end of the day PWE/Cryptic would lose more players on a wipe than they would be on a rollback.
Rollback is still, in my opinion, the best solution. I am curious as to why it took them almost 12 hours to respond to an exploit that many players were openly using and discussing in chat. The impact to the already ruined in game economy from an AH exploit probably should have been a priority.
The other thing I am curious about is how far into the obvious are they going to investigate? Are players getting a 72 hr slap on the wrist or a full ban? Once the plan is decided on and implemented I almost feel as if I as a legit player am due a write up of the plan to fix this.
Just make a new server if you aren't going to start over. You owe us that at a minimum imo.
While I would love to see this. PWE has stated in their FAQ months ago the 3 existing servers will be merged after open beta. New server would be a moot point if they will be merging them
Assuming realistically 25% of people used these exploits, then they of course are voting for no wipe so only around 2% of legitamate players don't want a wipe.
personally i voted for yes, i only downloaded this game few days ago but from reading redit and the forums it does sound like a ruined economy and not something i would be motivated to start playing.
Care to share where you're pulling your numbers from? If, as I suspect, it's out of your ..., no screenshots, please.
Reading comprehension is essential in a medium that requires reading for communication.
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molestraszaMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 4Arc User
I support a full wipe, even though I have a 60 and a 46, and others. I wonder if there is a way for Cryptic to tell who has, and when people have completed their dailies. If this is the case for those players that did their dailies every day they could be given the atro Diamonds they earned, free accounts included.
I know that some folks have earned astros from the AH, but just like our gear and characters we will have to start anew on earning those.
The game is fun enough and enjoyable enough I'll stay with it if there is a whip.
i support a wipe as long as perfect world think of us people who bought zen and spent money on the beta so either our zen balance gets full or our money we spent on it back to us
Thank the gods the forums are only a very small percentage of the player base....
It's a random sample, they represent the majority, if not better (because any who will take 2 seconds to post and write detailed comments is more likely to be looking for long-term commitment to the game).
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lorentzo02Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 20Arc User
edited May 2013
game take full wipe ppl go next time play there neverwinter lose like 70% of players
come more online games each month and new games ppl spent time there and neverwinter lose fans and loyalty members
same happen to Diablo3 and Blizzard they lose lots fans and loyalty ppl doing bad stuffs to game
Care to share where you're pulling your numbers from? If, as I suspect, it's out of your ..., no screenshots, please.
The 25% of players using exploits is an assumption made by me, since around 27% of players voted for no wipe and 25% of players voted no wipe because they exploited, hence 2% of legit players don't want a wipe and 98% do want a wipe, though the 25% could be totally wrong, its just my guess.
The 25% of players using exploits is an assumption made by me, since around 27% of players voted for no wipe and 25% of players voted no wipe because they exploited, hence 2% of legit players don't want a wipe and 98% do want a wipe, though the 25% could be totally wrong, its just my guess.
You know what they say about making assumptions. It's totally wrong and your numbers are all over the place.
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xeverius2013Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 15Arc User
edited May 2013
This question should only apply to Founders. I prefer to keep my level 60 CW, since I've become quite attached & invested so much time & effort.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]"As far as we can discern, the sole purpose of human existence is to kindle a flame of meaning in the darkness of mere being." --C. G. Jung
even if you wipe it exploiter will exploit the game. there be new exploit in every patch they make
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myth1064Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 19Arc User
edited May 2013
Update 5:15 PM Pacific: We have most of the information in-hand, but are waiting on a few final details to determine our plan of action. To clarify one thing I've seen around on Twitter, whatever we ultimately decide to do, a full character wipe will not happen. We're doing everything we can to minimize the impact of this fix, so that it changes what must change, but not much else. Thank you all for your patience, we appreciate it and will have you back in-game as soon as possible. Update 6 PM Pacific: We're still finalizing the plan of action. Once everything is locked in, we'll be posting everything, so keep your eyes on Facebook, on Twitter and on our forums -- we'll make sure it goes everywhere. Thank you all again, we appreciate your support and patience.
You know what they say about making assumptions. It's totally wrong and your numbers are all over the place.
Except if you have statistics you are only assuming my numbers are wrong, and you know what they say about assumptions.
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sydeswypeMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 2Arc User
edited May 2013
Wipe it, Wipe it, Wipe it!
Only real way to start off on the right foot. Beta is meant to find AND report bugs/exploits. Unfortunately there are a few who would rather capitalize on an exploit than to help the game succeed which is why this has happened. Sure, people expect to have no more character wipes from now on but nobody could expect the exploits that occurred which led to a huge economic melt-down. Its my opinion that a wipe is the only thing that will help the game succeed. If not then all of those mule accounts will continue to ruin the game...
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zellrainbowMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 22Arc User
To be fair, the only true way of guaranteeing people who DIDNT exploit is to only give it back to people who paid for it. Not saying its right and not saying they will... but no matter how much you slaved over collecting your AD the only record of true and honest AD/Zen purchases are from the people who you know... PAID for it. Thats record right there. Bank statements, confirmation emails, no jokes no gimmicks pure proof they got it without a cheese. Welcome to the real world, people who pay have the advantage over people who don't simply because they pay. I'm not saying this game is pay to win because I don't really believe it is, i'm just saying that who are they gonna trust? Written and tangible proof? Or possible questionable actions.
Thats the minimum amount they would loose on their player base if they do that.
So no, its not going to happen.
I voted no becaus I'm not even sure what happened nor would if I'd get my Zen (bought with cash) back, but will not abandon the game because I have to relevel my toons. Free respec man!
I've made close to 5 million AD through legitimate means. And I support a full wipe that this point. You have NO idea what the last two exploits did to the economy. I do, and I can see where it's going. As far as a "rollback", this has been occurring since OB started, so, take that for the amount of time that needs "rolling back" - it wasn't just a few days.
While Cryptic might datamine and catch the characters who did it, the majority of that currency has been laundered. And that will become impossible to trace, as the smarter ones made hundreds of millions, and did it from different IPs (I'm no exploiter, but even with a job as QA for a software company, I could manage that).
The AD economy problem is irreversible this late. It won't "correct itself". I'm pretty sure any graduate of advanced economics can get into detail for you, which I will leave off of here.
As a software tester, I know the problem was that there just wasn't enough testing done (even in alpha, and yes, I know exactly how much testing was done in alpha) to be able to find this stuff. This is why you do an Open Beta before an official release or "go live" and let players tear it apart. Log everything done, analyze, and stop listening to players but look at the logs. Then delete and start. That part of the process never happened, which is where we are now.
And I leave at this.
Return the Zen cash-paid to the accounts and wipe it all.
Except if you have statistics you are only assuming my numbers are wrong, and you know what they say about assumptions.
Technically, the poll should be only for anyone that's has paid into the game whether Founder, Guardians, or paid for any Zen. Since these are the paying customers who have more vested into the game and are supporting Cryptic's ability to develop and host the game.
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fliptrixyoMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 3Arc User
edited May 2013
i Don't mind a full wipe but i want all my zen back and founders AD back
And i want my horse i got from the chests with my keys
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gorlock6Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 4Arc User
edited May 2013
Nuke the server...Wipe everything.....
Founder items and any zen bought gets returned.
Ban the IPs of the xploiters. Actually, ban China. Lol....
For those complaining about losing hard-earned AD etc....Too bad..
I burnt my left hand earlier this week. I've only been able to grind Leatherworking... Was almost done, but have no problem with starting over if it will fix the economy and keep the game going.
Spent $120 in zen alone and I support a full wipe, so as long we (the members) are reimbursed for the legitimate zen we purchased and the AD that came with our Foundry Packages. Character levels and the 300+ hours spent leveling... I wouldn't mind loosing time.. (Guild Leader here too... which means I would have to recreate!)
Compensate anyone who bought a founders pack however you see fit.
A Massive exploit in the game has ruined it's economy. If there isn't a full wipe, PW may lose a large potion of it's player-base who play, and will continue to play this game for the long-haul.
Anyone with half a brain that used the exploit created multiple other FREE accounts and transferred variable amounts of their infinite riches to it. Aside from going through mail history one-by-one, there will be no way to determine legit trades from exploiters being remotely intelligent.
Anything other than a full wipe or fresh server rewards exploiters and demoralizes people who actually spent money on the game, chasing them away and effectively killing the game before it is even launched.
And obviously return/refund Zen purchases.
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yanoestoyMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 2Arc User
I do not support a FULL wipe, I like many others have achieved everything I have earned through playing. I don't feel I should be penalized due to people out there who exploit the system and cheat, so because they cheat I have to lose everything I earn? I'm sorry but I simply don't have the patience or time to have to achieve everything again. I would close my account no matter how much I enjoy this game. I feel this should be an option amongst player's. Start a new server or reset the economy, but the devs would be making a huge mistake going back on there word not to wipe in first place. Don't penalize me because I'm an honest individual. THe bottomline is no matter where you go, what game you play and even could happen again in this game, there will always be people who will find someway to cheat, so is the answer to keep wiping and starting over? ...NO
It's a random sample, they represent the majority, if not better (because any who will take 2 seconds to post and write detailed comments is more likely to be looking for long-term commitment to the game).
That's a ridiculous assumption. I know plenty of gamers who don't read or post on the forums of the games they play because they feel that the time they have for games is best spent playing them, and they don't necessarily have a ton of time on their hands. As a matter of fact, one could make the argument that the players who PWE are really concerned about (from PWE's perspective, at least) might very well be such people; people who will spend cash on games because they have full time jobs that keep them busy in real life but they still want to have some competitive edge in the games they play. A long term commitment isn't the first and foremost thing that PWE would necessarily want; who's to say that those people are the ones who are going to be spending the most money on the game?
Honestly, if they have to resort to any sort of wipe or roll back it would just show how poor of a job they are doing. If they did that I would honestly just quit. I'm only level 26 and have only been playing a couple days now, but if I lost even that little progress I'd have no intention of ever playing the game again.
I don't ever use spent the pointless gold/whatever currencies in these games, I also hardly ever even use the auction house. Since I'm not trying to get rich for no real purpose through crafting (WTF would I actually need to buy with any in game currency that isn't already easily affordable?), the prices on the AH or who exploited what literally has no effect on me at all.
The only time I would spend astral points on the AH would be for things like dyes or things of that nature that aren't hard to find, but I most likely wouldn't stock up on them since I don't have any intention of ever even selling anything on the AH regardless of any useless amount of profit I'd make.
I did hardcore raiding on WoW servers known for hardcore raiding (Mal'Ganis for example) and even then never really found much use for a AH or any kind of trading between players besides for things like gems or enchants and things of that nature. Even if a gem that would normally cost 300g cost 3000g or 3c because of duping or AH price fixing it would make literally no difference because I have a huge stockpile of gold that is totally pointless to even have outside of buying crafted items that typically aren't worth <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> anyway.
Comments
Rollback is still, in my opinion, the best solution. I am curious as to why it took them almost 12 hours to respond to an exploit that many players were openly using and discussing in chat. The impact to the already ruined in game economy from an AH exploit probably should have been a priority.
The other thing I am curious about is how far into the obvious are they going to investigate? Are players getting a 72 hr slap on the wrist or a full ban? Once the plan is decided on and implemented I almost feel as if I as a legit player am due a write up of the plan to fix this.
Care to share where you're pulling your numbers from? If, as I suspect, it's out of your ..., no screenshots, please.
That dude pulled 25% from the percentage of people that voted NO to a full wipe.
I know that some folks have earned astros from the AH, but just like our gear and characters we will have to start anew on earning those.
The game is fun enough and enjoyable enough I'll stay with it if there is a whip.
It's a random sample, they represent the majority, if not better (because any who will take 2 seconds to post and write detailed comments is more likely to be looking for long-term commitment to the game).
come more online games each month and new games ppl spent time there and neverwinter lose fans and loyalty members
same happen to Diablo3 and Blizzard they lose lots fans and loyalty ppl doing bad stuffs to game
The 25% of players using exploits is an assumption made by me, since around 27% of players voted for no wipe and 25% of players voted no wipe because they exploited, hence 2% of legit players don't want a wipe and 98% do want a wipe, though the 25% could be totally wrong, its just my guess.
You know what they say about making assumptions. It's totally wrong and your numbers are all over the place.
Update 6 PM Pacific: We're still finalizing the plan of action. Once everything is locked in, we'll be posting everything, so keep your eyes on Facebook, on Twitter and on our forums -- we'll make sure it goes everywhere. Thank you all again, we appreciate your support and patience.
Except if you have statistics you are only assuming my numbers are wrong, and you know what they say about assumptions.
Only real way to start off on the right foot. Beta is meant to find AND report bugs/exploits. Unfortunately there are a few who would rather capitalize on an exploit than to help the game succeed which is why this has happened. Sure, people expect to have no more character wipes from now on but nobody could expect the exploits that occurred which led to a huge economic melt-down. Its my opinion that a wipe is the only thing that will help the game succeed. If not then all of those mule accounts will continue to ruin the game...
Honest answer here. I'm with him on this.
I voted no becaus I'm not even sure what happened nor would if I'd get my Zen (bought with cash) back, but will not abandon the game because I have to relevel my toons. Free respec man!
And I leave at this.
Return the Zen cash-paid to the accounts and wipe it all.
Technically, the poll should be only for anyone that's has paid into the game whether Founder, Guardians, or paid for any Zen. Since these are the paying customers who have more vested into the game and are supporting Cryptic's ability to develop and host the game.
And i want my horse i got from the chests with my keys
Founder items and any zen bought gets returned.
Ban the IPs of the xploiters. Actually, ban China. Lol....
For those complaining about losing hard-earned AD etc....Too bad..
I burnt my left hand earlier this week. I've only been able to grind Leatherworking... Was almost done, but have no problem with starting over if it will fix the economy and keep the game going.
Those of us that want a full wipe can to start over on the new server, those that don't can stay on their current servers untouched.
Problem solved.
Compensate anyone who bought a founders pack however you see fit.
A Massive exploit in the game has ruined it's economy. If there isn't a full wipe, PW may lose a large potion of it's player-base who play, and will continue to play this game for the long-haul.
Anyone with half a brain that used the exploit created multiple other FREE accounts and transferred variable amounts of their infinite riches to it. Aside from going through mail history one-by-one, there will be no way to determine legit trades from exploiters being remotely intelligent.
Anything other than a full wipe or fresh server rewards exploiters and demoralizes people who actually spent money on the game, chasing them away and effectively killing the game before it is even launched.
And obviously return/refund Zen purchases.
That's a ridiculous assumption. I know plenty of gamers who don't read or post on the forums of the games they play because they feel that the time they have for games is best spent playing them, and they don't necessarily have a ton of time on their hands. As a matter of fact, one could make the argument that the players who PWE are really concerned about (from PWE's perspective, at least) might very well be such people; people who will spend cash on games because they have full time jobs that keep them busy in real life but they still want to have some competitive edge in the games they play. A long term commitment isn't the first and foremost thing that PWE would necessarily want; who's to say that those people are the ones who are going to be spending the most money on the game?
I don't ever use spent the pointless gold/whatever currencies in these games, I also hardly ever even use the auction house. Since I'm not trying to get rich for no real purpose through crafting (WTF would I actually need to buy with any in game currency that isn't already easily affordable?), the prices on the AH or who exploited what literally has no effect on me at all.
The only time I would spend astral points on the AH would be for things like dyes or things of that nature that aren't hard to find, but I most likely wouldn't stock up on them since I don't have any intention of ever even selling anything on the AH regardless of any useless amount of profit I'd make.
I did hardcore raiding on WoW servers known for hardcore raiding (Mal'Ganis for example) and even then never really found much use for a AH or any kind of trading between players besides for things like gems or enchants and things of that nature. Even if a gem that would normally cost 300g cost 3000g or 3c because of duping or AH price fixing it would make literally no difference because I have a huge stockpile of gold that is totally pointless to even have outside of buying crafted items that typically aren't worth <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> anyway.