rhaynedropMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 1Arc User
edited May 2013
Granted, a wipe seems like the easiest way to fix things...until you think a little further. Are the bugs and exploits going to be fixed, really fixed? Releveling toons through the same content is not ideal, but losing RL money that I and others have paid for HotN/Guardian founder packs and Zen is totally unacceptable. Having our RL money just "poof" with no return or adequate compensation smacks too much of fraud and will alienate the paying player database PW is trying to cultivate. So draw that line in the sand, wipe the slate clean and start over...IF and only IF you plan on refunding our HotN/Guardian goodies and ALL of our ZEN our RL money paid for.
I support a full wipe, so long as I am refunded my Founder Pack, and Zen purchases, so I can move on to better things.
Reading comprehension is essential in a medium that requires reading for communication.
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lanessar13Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, SilverstarsPosts: 8Arc User
edited May 2013
I've made close to 5 million AD through legitimate means. And I support a full wipe that this point. You have NO idea what the last two exploits did to the economy. I do, and I can see where it's going. As far as a "rollback", this has been occurring since OB started, so, take that for the amount of time that needs "rolling back" - it wasn't just a few days.
While Cryptic might datamine and catch the characters who did it, the majority of that currency has been laundered. And that will become impossible to trace, as the smarter ones made hundreds of millions, and did it from different IPs (I'm no exploiter, but even with a job as QA for a software company, I could manage that).
The AD economy problem is irreversible this late. It won't "correct itself". I'm pretty sure any graduate of advanced economics can get into detail for you, which I will leave off of here.
As a software tester, I know the problem was that there just wasn't enough testing done (even in alpha, and yes, I know exactly how much testing was done in alpha) to be able to find this stuff. This is why you do an Open Beta before an official release or "go live" and let players tear it apart. Log everything done, analyze, and stop listening to players but look at the logs. Then delete and start. That part of the process never happened, which is where we are now.
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liquidc86Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
see people saying "wipe" -- do you mean like a complete, beginning-of-time wipe? I can guarantee that won't happen
The negative number exploit has been working since day 1, Leveling to 60 in no time with foundry exploits before they got fixed and GF exploiting bugs two-shotting endgame bosses resulting in more loot epic loot than they knew what to do with. Those are just the exploits I can recall on the top of my head and I haven't been paying attention.
I say they should act like it's a beta for once and do a full rollback before release.
I'm sorry, but do you know how stupid you sound? People that bought the AD with real money worked for it too, in comparison, their job took them a lot more effort than you sitting at your computer.
Lol... this guy.
So you say its more work for you if you for example need to work 1 minute to be able to buy 1 enchanted key then a F2Play player (who is forced to f2play) who needs days of gaming to be able to afford a key?
Wow your life must be so hard. Its really easy to point with a finger when you are financial okay.
I will not even justify this by voting. The developers promised no character wipes once the open beta started. To re-neg on this just because of some exploits would be ridiculous. We're talking about an economy in a PvE game. Move on. The market will recover from whatever has been done. If a few players end up with more money or equipment it has little effect on most players ability to enjoy the game. A full character wipe would have bad effects on everyone.
I would support a wipe, but as others have stated there has been a lot of money tossed out to this game. Perhaps an alternative could help restore the economy. Something like a price cap on items. Anyone over that cap currently would have those items returned to them via mail and they would have to resubmit them to the AH. Same thing for the amount of Zen a person can purchase through the AD/Zen exchange. Maybe two or three purchases a day limit. Granted it isn't the best solution, but it is probably easier to implement and help restore the economy versus just letting it ride.
Foundry Designs: Once a Dungeon Master, always a Dungeon Master.
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starkaosMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
As a software tester, I know the problem was that there just wasn't enough testing done (even in alpha, and yes, I know exactly how much testing was done in alpha) to be able to find this stuff. This is why you do an Open Beta before an official release or "go live" and let players tear it apart. Log everything done, analyze, and stop listening to players but look at the logs. Then delete and start. That part of the process never happened, which is where we are now.
And they shot themselves in the foot with the whole "No Wipe" thing. If the game was going to be wiped when Open Beta ended, then there would be no issue. People do not get attached to their open beta characters since they know they are going to be deleted. Money is not spent during an open beta since that any item you purchase is going to be deleted and the Zen refunded. People don't grind as much in open beta. Exploiters aren't active during open beta since there is no value to anything. Ever since they said this game would have no more wipes, this game was not in open beta.
Doing a character wipe would lose them more customers than people leaving due to the state of the economy. How can anyone trust them when they go back on their word? Also, if they do a wipe, then it sets a precedent that to fix a game a wipe is a perfectly valid method when it is the absolute last resort. A character wipe is a nuke when a sniper rifle is the appropriate response. The fallout from character wipes would pollute the game for years to come assuming it survives.
So you say its more work for you if you for example need to work 1 minute to be able to buy 1 enchanted key then a F2Play player (who is forced to f2play) who needs days of gaming to be able to afford a key?
My job involves boiling hot grease, heavy lifting, and the potential for randomly getting shot. You're playing a freaking video game. Yeah, my work is harder than yours. I can't even... This is logic put forth by people who've never worked an honest day in their lives. If you had, you'd know how much harder a real job is than laying around playing a **** video game.
I will not even justify this by voting. The developers promised no character wipes once the open beta started. To re-neg on this just because of some exploits would be ridiculous. We're talking about an economy in a PvE game. Move on. The market will recover from whatever has been done. If a few players end up with more money or equipment it has little effect on most players ability to enjoy the game. A full character wipe would have bad effects on everyone.
This is hardly just some exploits. Level bug? Sure, whatever. This is the ability to get *millions* of astral diamonds in a very short amount of time. This isn't just some more money or equipment, this is "own every item in the zen store and all highest tier gear and mods for all of my characters, plus have a few million left over" levels of insane. This is "new players will have to grind for months to afford anything on the auction house".
We already have a few examples of how this played out, because this has happened to every single cryptic title. Champions got it arguably the hardest, since the gold cap in that game is 250, but even moderately rare gear sells for more than that. the most elite stuff in game? 4x that, easy. This means that free to play players literally have to farm to gold cap 4 times just to buy a single piece of gear.
If you can't see the problems with that sort of economy, I don't know what to tell you.
In game, I am @EvilTaco. Happily killing purple gang members since May 2008. RIP Caine
tyler23434Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
i wasnt in favor of a wipe after the GF dmg exploit was going on for days but after this AD/zen bug i feel a wipe would set things right as long as people who bought zen would have the amount reset in the account(similar to the process they used from beta4 to openbeta).
And they shot themselves in the foot with the whole "No Wipe" thing. If the game was going to be wiped when Open Beta ended, then there would be no issue. People do not get attached to their open beta characters since they know they are going to be deleted. Money is not spent during an open beta since that any item you purchase is going to be deleted and the Zen refunded. People don't grind as much in open beta. Exploiters aren't active during open beta since there is no value to anything. Ever since they said this game would have no more wipes, this game was not in open beta.
Doing a character wipe would lose them more customers than people leaving due to the state of the economy. How can anyone trust them when they go back on their word? Also, if they do a wipe, then it sets a precedent that to fix a game a wipe is a perfectly valid method when it is the absolute last resort. A character wipe is a nuke when a sniper rifle is the appropriate response. The fallout from character wipes would pollute the game for years to come assuming it survives.
Im not gonna act like I know the correct answer here but in their defense I dont think they knew that they would be dealing with an exploit like this one when they said no wipe.
The other concern I have is this, it seems the game wasnt properly tested for such exploits before opening the game to everyone? So if they did do a full wipe and my concern is true are we going to repeat this in the future?
80% of the yes votes are the exploiters that know they are doomed for a rollback so now they push to get everyone wiped!
I did not spend a bunch of cash and hours in crafting to have it all taken away due to some low life hackers and cheats.
The only reason i started playing this seriously is because they assured that there would be no more wipes.
That would just prompt me to uninstall and never come back.
80% of the no votes are exploiters, or friends of exploiters, that know a rollback won't affect them, and they don't want to have to level up and earn their gear/levels/ad/zen the honest way.
All of you people whining about "wasted time" playing the game can just go. No one will miss you. We'll have fun playing the game with others that play for fun.
So now you also can tell i never worked a day in my life? I owned several companies and know really well what hard work is with topping weeks of 100 hours of labour. I know what it is to have ****loads of cash, and sadly because of reasons i dont feel like sharing i know what it is to be complete bankrupt.
Like i said before, you are really easy with pointing your finger and putting yourself on a big stand.
And they shot themselves in the foot with the whole "No Wipe" thing. If the game was going to be wiped when Open Beta ended, then there would be no issue. People do not get attached to their open beta characters since they know they are going to be deleted. Money is not spent during an open beta since that any item you purchase is going to be deleted and the Zen refunded. People don't grind as much in open beta. Exploiters aren't active during open beta since there is no value to anything. Ever since they said this game would have no more wipes, this game was not in open beta.
Doing a character wipe would lose them more customers than people leaving due to the state of the economy. How can anyone trust them when they go back on their word? Also, if they do a wipe, then it sets a precedent that to fix a game a wipe is a perfectly valid method when it is the absolute last resort. A character wipe is a nuke when a sniper rifle is the appropriate response. The fallout from character wipes would pollute the game for years to come assuming it survives.
Im not gonna act like I know the correct answer here but in their defense I dont think they knew that they would be dealing with an exploit like this one when they said no wipe.
The other concern I have is this, it seems the game wasnt properly tested for such exploits before opening the game to everyone? So if they did do a full wipe and my concern is true are we going to repeat this in the future?
If they do a full wipe i think my guild and i are done with the game, i just got geared in mostly T2's after grinding the instances for a long time without using any exploits. I finally had luck and got something in my DD chest worth selling and got myself a cat companion to help us out in Castle Never and i go to bed. I wake up all happy to log on and play with my guildies and try and get one of them his helm from spellplague and then i hear about all this talk about wiping my progress... we've been playing this game everyday for 12hours-30 hours falling asleep at the keyboard doing dungeons legit and we get all our stuff flushed down the drain...really? I love the combat but i cant start back at level 60 in greens let alone level 1.
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koijuMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 11Arc User
edited May 2013
I support roll back not full wipe, I don't wanna re-level 2 level 60 characters :P
Full wipe is excessive and would be very bad publicity, roll back server and ban any associated accounts is far more sensible.
A wipe in beta well that is unheard of. I guess that things change with F2P games. I cann't help but think that this game is still in beta and wipes were always a part of being in a beta. My my have things changed.
they should have never made astral diamonds tradable. if they can change the auction house currency from AD to Gold, and add more way to get gold there will be less economic problems in the future.
Comments
While Cryptic might datamine and catch the characters who did it, the majority of that currency has been laundered. And that will become impossible to trace, as the smarter ones made hundreds of millions, and did it from different IPs (I'm no exploiter, but even with a job as QA for a software company, I could manage that).
The AD economy problem is irreversible this late. It won't "correct itself". I'm pretty sure any graduate of advanced economics can get into detail for you, which I will leave off of here.
As a software tester, I know the problem was that there just wasn't enough testing done (even in alpha, and yes, I know exactly how much testing was done in alpha) to be able to find this stuff. This is why you do an Open Beta before an official release or "go live" and let players tear it apart. Log everything done, analyze, and stop listening to players but look at the logs. Then delete and start. That part of the process never happened, which is where we are now.
neverwinter oficial twitter.
no wipes
Yup. Let us hope they have a good plan. If not, then we will need some serious spaying and neutering of all the cats that will be running around!
Cheers!
Beat me to it!
I say they should act like it's a beta for once and do a full rollback before release.
Lol... this guy.
So you say its more work for you if you for example need to work 1 minute to be able to buy 1 enchanted key then a F2Play player (who is forced to f2play) who needs days of gaming to be able to afford a key?
Wow your life must be so hard. Its really easy to point with a finger when you are financial okay.
Dijtto!!!!
And they shot themselves in the foot with the whole "No Wipe" thing. If the game was going to be wiped when Open Beta ended, then there would be no issue. People do not get attached to their open beta characters since they know they are going to be deleted. Money is not spent during an open beta since that any item you purchase is going to be deleted and the Zen refunded. People don't grind as much in open beta. Exploiters aren't active during open beta since there is no value to anything. Ever since they said this game would have no more wipes, this game was not in open beta.
Doing a character wipe would lose them more customers than people leaving due to the state of the economy. How can anyone trust them when they go back on their word? Also, if they do a wipe, then it sets a precedent that to fix a game a wipe is a perfectly valid method when it is the absolute last resort. A character wipe is a nuke when a sniper rifle is the appropriate response. The fallout from character wipes would pollute the game for years to come assuming it survives.
I refuse to suffer for a few, sorry.
I did not spend a bunch of cash and hours in crafting to have it all taken away due to some low life hackers and cheats.
The only reason i started playing this seriously is because they assured that there would be no more wipes.
That would just prompt me to uninstall and never come back.
My job involves boiling hot grease, heavy lifting, and the potential for randomly getting shot. You're playing a freaking video game. Yeah, my work is harder than yours. I can't even... This is logic put forth by people who've never worked an honest day in their lives. If you had, you'd know how much harder a real job is than laying around playing a **** video game.
This is hardly just some exploits. Level bug? Sure, whatever. This is the ability to get *millions* of astral diamonds in a very short amount of time. This isn't just some more money or equipment, this is "own every item in the zen store and all highest tier gear and mods for all of my characters, plus have a few million left over" levels of insane. This is "new players will have to grind for months to afford anything on the auction house".
We already have a few examples of how this played out, because this has happened to every single cryptic title. Champions got it arguably the hardest, since the gold cap in that game is 250, but even moderately rare gear sells for more than that. the most elite stuff in game? 4x that, easy. This means that free to play players literally have to farm to gold cap 4 times just to buy a single piece of gear.
If you can't see the problems with that sort of economy, I don't know what to tell you.
RIP Caine
don't forget...this is just a game!
don't forget...this is a BETA (open beta) !
--- Stay heavy! \m/ ---
==================================================
https://twitter.com/NeverwinterGame/status/336255428541444096
Im not gonna act like I know the correct answer here but in their defense I dont think they knew that they would be dealing with an exploit like this one when they said no wipe.
The other concern I have is this, it seems the game wasnt properly tested for such exploits before opening the game to everyone? So if they did do a full wipe and my concern is true are we going to repeat this in the future?
92% of the no-voters don't want to lose their advantage in the ruined economy. Making up facts is fun.
80% of the no votes are exploiters, or friends of exploiters, that know a rollback won't affect them, and they don't want to have to level up and earn their gear/levels/ad/zen the honest way.
All of you people whining about "wasted time" playing the game can just go. No one will miss you. We'll have fun playing the game with others that play for fun.
So now you also can tell i never worked a day in my life? I owned several companies and know really well what hard work is with topping weeks of 100 hours of labour. I know what it is to have ****loads of cash, and sadly because of reasons i dont feel like sharing i know what it is to be complete bankrupt.
Like i said before, you are really easy with pointing your finger and putting yourself on a big stand.
Im not gonna act like I know the correct answer here but in their defense I dont think they knew that they would be dealing with an exploit like this one when they said no wipe.
The other concern I have is this, it seems the game wasnt properly tested for such exploits before opening the game to everyone? So if they did do a full wipe and my concern is true are we going to repeat this in the future?
Full wipe is excessive and would be very bad publicity, roll back server and ban any associated accounts is far more sensible.
I agree. I think a roll back is fine. Roll back to the last full wipe.
Oh hardy har har very funny :P
not
You know what I mean!