Not only should there have been back-end constraints, I'm amazed that the front-end allows negative inputs for currency related fields. This is basic input/form validation. There should have been checks on the back-end and the front-end. I'm amazed that something this common and honestly trivial was not implemented.
Etup was yacking about not sanitizing inputs. I come from a Database Architecture/Administration perspective.
Whoever is the Database Architect/Administrator who came up with a database model and didn't slap a constraint on the bids such that this couldn't happen, needs to be fired. immediately.
First off, stop saying this is beta. When you're charging money and not doing wipes, it's a launch. News media have a term for this: a "soft launch". Cryptic knew this game wasn't ready for launch, but they launched anyways.
Dude... what are you talking about. Perfect World Entertainment owns & operates Neverwinter. Cryptic has nothing to do with this. Zen is Perfect World money. Cryptic didn't launch the game. Perfect World did. Hello.
(idk why quote fails when you remove the TL;DR bits... but oh well..)
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sickenme56Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 9Arc User
I purchased a founders pack after about 5 days of playing. I spent REAL MONEY to support this game. And I can assure you, that ANYONE who spent real money to support this game will support a FULL WIPE. Look at the number of people who purchased packs, be it $20.00 or $50.00 or $200.00. We PAID to support this game, but the exploit was STEALING our money. I have 2 lvl 60's and an lvl 30, and I fully support a total wipe. As long as I get my AD and ZEN back to original purchase value, I have no problems doing it all over again. If the exploit was being used from Day 1, then the VALUE of my AD/ZEN was corrupted from what I purchased, and I LOST money. I probably have over 100 hours invested, but I'll give up that time to have a fixed economy. Permanently BAN all the exploiters by IP address, and reset it back to zero. And for the record, KEEP the AH offline. Just like Diablo 3, as soon as you have REAL MONEY involved in fake transactions, you ARE going to have exploiters. The short term fix is to wipe, refund all AD/ZEN, and keep the AH offline. The longer term fix is to sell stuff to vendors, and let the vendors resell stuff at a markup. That way if the vendor offers you 250K AD for your T3 gear, you could BUY it from the vendor for 500K. Stop mixing AD with ZEN. Make it so you can BUY stuff for AD from the special vendors. Heck, if a Bag of Holding is 1000 ZEN, and you want a 300-1 ZEN/AD ratio, then SELL the Bag for 300,000 AD. or whatever ratio works. Sure, there will always be people exploiting the game. But, as long as it doesn't affect MY money, I don't care so much. This exploit DIRECTLY affected how I could play the game, so a full wipe/ban is the only fix. Look at the number of people who paid money for this. THOSE are the ONLY people you should care about, and THOSE are the ones who got screwed.
Bottom line man...I'm not against you at all, but you seem to hark on the fact that your $ value of intangible goods went down. Welcome to life. Your' $ value goes down EVERYDAY..to make it simple for you look at gas prices..they change daily...you may have spent $5 a gallon yesterday and drive by the SAME gas station the next day to find that the price is $4.15...stfu
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xdprophetMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 15Arc User
Permanently BAN all the exploiters by IP address, and reset it back to zero
Wow. I guess you will never be IT. Maybe you should go to college. Ever heard of NAT (Network Address Translation)? 100's of thousands can share the same public IP.
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cutegayMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 24Arc User
edited May 2013
I'm saying the exploiters have been selling the Astral for real cash.
I purchased a founders pack after about 5 days of playing. I spent REAL MONEY to support this game. And I can assure you, that ANYONE who spent real money to support this game will support a FULL WIPE. Look at the number of people who purchased packs, be it $20.00 or $50.00 or $200.00. We PAID to support this game, but the exploit was STEALING our money. I have 2 lvl 60's and an lvl 30, and I fully support a total wipe. As long as I get my AD and ZEN back to original purchase value, I have no problems doing it all over again. If the exploit was being used from Day 1, then the VALUE of my AD/ZEN was corrupted from what I purchased, and I LOST money. I probably have over 100 hours invested, but I'll give up that time to have a fixed economy. Permanently BAN all the exploiters by IP address, and reset it back to zero. And for the record, KEEP the AH offline. Just like Diablo 3, as soon as you have REAL MONEY involved in fake transactions, you ARE going to have exploiters. The short term fix is to wipe, refund all AD/ZEN, and keep the AH offline. The longer term fix is to sell stuff to vendors, and let the vendors resell stuff at a markup. That way if the vendor offers you 250K AD for your T3 gear, you could BUY it from the vendor for 500K. Stop mixing AD with ZEN. Make it so you can BUY stuff for AD from the special vendors. Heck, if a Bag of Holding is 1000 ZEN, and you want a 300-1 ZEN/AD ratio, then SELL the Bag for 300,000 AD. or whatever ratio works. Sure, there will always be people exploiting the game. But, as long as it doesn't affect MY money, I don't care so much. This exploit DIRECTLY affected how I could play the game, so a full wipe/ban is the only fix. Look at the number of people who paid money for this. THOSE are the ONLY people you should care about, and THOSE are the ones who got screwed.
Its being taken care of. But btw does anyone realize that all MMO players who actually rage on forums are : Astronauts, doctors, lawyers, cowboys, ninjas, Buddhist priests, shaolin monks, physicists, economists, philosopher, prophets, gun-experts, combat veterans (that defy normal combat veterans and boast about exploits), politicians, business majors, and super star athletes all wrapped into one person?
THERE will most likely be a rollback and banning of the most heinous exploiters, NO they won't provide you names or addresses to lynch them, NO the supreme court will not hear any cases about how PWE refunded your Zen and you don't feel spiritually whole or complete.
THE ECONOMY will easily recover, this has happened before in STO about 9 times, on a much larger scale and has been dealt with rapidly and the economy stabilized after 2 weeks. 120-200 AD for Zen is a normal price so dont get worked up about it, you simply just reached that point sooner than it normally would have been.
THE DEVS are awesome and this game is in transition to the full live status, its not bug free and with modern MMOs consisting of over 15-20 million lines of code, bugs and exploits will always be part of the game.
THE SUN will rise tomorrow and the day after and the day after that for around 4-5 billion years. IT IS NOT THE END OF YOUR EXISTENCE. So chill, and if still you are not satisfied that the people who exploited aren't burned, crucified, lynched, beaten, stoned, shot, curb stomped, permanently banned and you feel the need to quit, by all means don't let the door hit you on the way out. This is by far one of the smoothest transitions from open beta to live processes that PWE and other companies have had. If you disagree clearly you weren't paying attention or your new, and if you are new, you stop getting worked up after your 5th or 6th beta so...deep breaths.
The people who should get a "gold star" are the ones who everyday stumble upon exploits and quietly report them via the proper channels. That's the proper way to help a company during a BETA. The people who were exploiting weren't exploiting for the good of the game, or to help fix holes in the gameplay, they were hoping not to get caught and to profit at the expense of the game itself and other gamers by extension of a ruined economy.
Finding exploits is crucial to the game's long-term survivability regardless of how they are found, however, breaking a part of the game in the process is counter-productive.
Wow. I guess you will never be IT. Maybe you should go to college. Ever heard of NAT (Network Address Translation)? 100's of thousands can share the same public IP.
Not to mention proxy tunnelling services. It's pretty much impossible to ban by IP and make it stick to anyone determined enough to get around it.
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cutegayMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 24Arc User
edited May 2013
I have a level 60 Cleric, TBH if they do not WIPE ALL CHARACTERS I'll be loosing interest and play something else.
Not doing a complete wipe confirms 1. It's not in BETA/ 2. They don't care about balance.
I really don't understand why they won't do a wipe and refund Zen. Other games have done wipes for much less.
A wipe without fixing every glitch that has been reported and every broken thing be it class mechanic or boss mechanic would be worthless , since it'll begin all over again and we'll be in the same exact spot in 2 weeks .
drwhoosierMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 1Arc User
edited May 2013
All you can upgrade is STRANTH?!
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clortbagsMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
The general level of intellect of a lot of tards in this thread basically amounts to this:
No wipe = zomg economy broken forever & exploiters/players they traded with get to keep all their diamonds/zen/items... I'm suing Perfect World for damages
Herp and a derp and a herpity derp.
5 + 1 = ORANGES
Seriously you guys are thick as sh|t in the neck of a bottle.....
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lishyaakMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 4Arc User
edited May 2013
Dr. Phil has arrived
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yoyoyomMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
My god man, let it go! A full wipe is absurd and it's just not happening. Sorry you wasted your $200, but you're not getting that back. I wasted @24k on a Durango in the 90s and nobody gave a HAMSTER then, either ...
Update 1:30PM Pacific: We are identifying the accounts that have utilized the AH exploit and will be taking action against said accounts. We are also still investigating the severity of the issue and its impact on the game, and from this information we will take corrective action. Estimated downtime is at least two more hours. We
1st post was updated, but dezstravus didnt check what was actually posted... it's broken...
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masarykMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
26,221 twitter followers when this started, up to 28,589. It's a plot I say!
The general level of intellect of a lot of tards in this thread basically amounts to this:
No wipe = zomg economy broken forever & exploiters/players they traded with get to keep all their diamonds/zen/items... I'm suing Perfect World for damages
Herp and a derp and a herpity derp.
5 + 1 = ORANGES
Seriously you guys are thick as sh|t in the neck of a bottle.....
They won't wipe. They will selectively rollback and ban individuals exploiting the bug, and remove the duped AD from the market.
In the long run, the economy will fix itself once these actions have been taken. It's a far better solution than to do a complete wipe, because they will lose a LOT of players who don't want to have to grind up totally new characters all over again. Time=money.
You know they COULD just come up with something more clever than rollbacks/wipes whatever is suggested here. A full wipe is not the ONLY way to solve a problem like this. Some clever datamining would reveal the bulk of the exploiters, and the biggest benefactors of the exploits (possibly innocents). You wouldn't have all of them, but most. If they just take action against the exploiters, and possibly perform rollbacks or value reductions on the main benefactors, things would be a lot better.
After that, we must remember that PW/Cryptic have total control over this economy, so they can easily calculate the amount of AD/Zen currently active in the game, and the distribution of it, even including banked items. Rebalancing the economy could be done by changing item values, quest rewards (give everyone in the game a diamond cat and their value drops to near 0), or individual AD counts.
The key to a simple solution is getting rid of the outliers, the 1% if you will. They will hurt perhaps some players who have legally obtained their cash, but those will not be enough to get a spotlight. When those players appeal, they should probably be able to verify that they are legit and return them to the game.
0
tredoMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
The general level of intellect of a lot of tards in this thread basically amounts to this:
No wipe = zomg economy broken forever & exploiters/players they traded with get to keep all their diamonds/zen/items... I'm suing Perfect World for damages
Herp and a derp and a herpity derp.
5 + 1 = ORANGES
Seriously you guys are thick as sh|t in the neck of a bottle.....
Best reply ever!! +1111111111111
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kimberixMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
As Peter Kay (English comedian) once said..
"I used to pray every night for a bike and I got nothing"
"Then, I realised it was better to steal a bike and pray for forgiveness"
0
cutegayMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 24Arc User
Well for me its easy you wipe and fix this ungodly HAMSTER or you can just refund my money that ive spent including the founder's pack. This is a huge breach and I can see PWI losing all their customer base over this. The only ones that are crying about a wipe are the ones that were prolly using the exploit. If you dont wipe you are punishing all the players that arent exploiting. I think that every person should complain and request a refund if they dont wipe.
Whoa, this must have come as a surprise to Cryptic. /sarcasm off
Just spreading the word how stupid the Cryptic staff is. Repeating the same mistakes. http://i.imgur.com/oA6Z8.jpg
I read someone earlier say that STO had the same bug in the past. But seeing that pic... It just kind of baffles me why they wouldn't check all their games for the same issue.
Halgarth's Legacy-NWS-DSTGFZHFR
0
clortbagsMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
They won't wipe. They will selectively rollback and ban individuals exploiting the bug, and remove the duped AD from the market.
In the long run, the economy will fix itself once these actions have been taken. It's a far better solution than to do a complete wipe, because they will lose a LOT of players who don't want to have to grind up totally new characters all over again. Time=money.
I know but a lot of these clowns don't have the brains to figure this out themselves
Comments
Bottom line man...I'm not against you at all, but you seem to hark on the fact that your $ value of intangible goods went down. Welcome to life. Your' $ value goes down EVERYDAY..to make it simple for you look at gas prices..they change daily...you may have spent $5 a gallon yesterday and drive by the SAME gas station the next day to find that the price is $4.15...stfu
Wow. I guess you will never be IT. Maybe you should go to college. Ever heard of NAT (Network Address Translation)? 100's of thousands can share the same public IP.
/agreed..............
THERE will most likely be a rollback and banning of the most heinous exploiters, NO they won't provide you names or addresses to lynch them, NO the supreme court will not hear any cases about how PWE refunded your Zen and you don't feel spiritually whole or complete.
THE ECONOMY will easily recover, this has happened before in STO about 9 times, on a much larger scale and has been dealt with rapidly and the economy stabilized after 2 weeks. 120-200 AD for Zen is a normal price so dont get worked up about it, you simply just reached that point sooner than it normally would have been.
THE DEVS are awesome and this game is in transition to the full live status, its not bug free and with modern MMOs consisting of over 15-20 million lines of code, bugs and exploits will always be part of the game.
THE SUN will rise tomorrow and the day after and the day after that for around 4-5 billion years. IT IS NOT THE END OF YOUR EXISTENCE. So chill, and if still you are not satisfied that the people who exploited aren't burned, crucified, lynched, beaten, stoned, shot, curb stomped, permanently banned and you feel the need to quit, by all means don't let the door hit you on the way out. This is by far one of the smoothest transitions from open beta to live processes that PWE and other companies have had. If you disagree clearly you weren't paying attention or your new, and if you are new, you stop getting worked up after your 5th or 6th beta so...deep breaths.
Snow
Dragon Server
This^ ......
http://www.twitter.com/PoIs0nMaN
http://www.facebook.com/PoIs0nMaN
http://www.youtube.com/PoIs0nMaN
http://steamcommunity.com/id/PoIsOnMaN
http://poisonman.wordpress.com/
Not to mention proxy tunnelling services. It's pretty much impossible to ban by IP and make it stick to anyone determined enough to get around it.
Not doing a complete wipe confirms 1. It's not in BETA/ 2. They don't care about balance.
I really don't understand why they won't do a wipe and refund Zen. Other games have done wipes for much less.
I quoth @NeverwinterGame:
"Whatever ends up happening, complete wipes are off the table, and we'll work to minimize the impact while fixing the issue."
Unquoth.
No wipe = zomg economy broken forever & exploiters/players they traded with get to keep all their diamonds/zen/items... I'm suing Perfect World for damages
Herp and a derp and a herpity derp.
5 + 1 = ORANGES
Seriously you guys are thick as sh|t in the neck of a bottle.....
Just spreading the word how stupid the Cryptic staff is. Repeating the same mistakes. http://i.imgur.com/oA6Z8.jpg
these guys have mule toons, mule accounts, secondary accounts, fake IP's, they do this for a living... BAN ha ha, I laugh at that!!
Look here http://www.reddit.com/r/Neverwinter/comments/1eebyi/an_exploiter_claims_to_have_made_almost_six/
1st post was updated, but dezstravus didnt check what was actually posted... it's broken...
They won't wipe. They will selectively rollback and ban individuals exploiting the bug, and remove the duped AD from the market.
In the long run, the economy will fix itself once these actions have been taken. It's a far better solution than to do a complete wipe, because they will lose a LOT of players who don't want to have to grind up totally new characters all over again. Time=money.
After that, we must remember that PW/Cryptic have total control over this economy, so they can easily calculate the amount of AD/Zen currently active in the game, and the distribution of it, even including banked items. Rebalancing the economy could be done by changing item values, quest rewards (give everyone in the game a diamond cat and their value drops to near 0), or individual AD counts.
The key to a simple solution is getting rid of the outliers, the 1% if you will. They will hurt perhaps some players who have legally obtained their cash, but those will not be enough to get a spotlight. When those players appeal, they should probably be able to verify that they are legit and return them to the game.
WOW, So this has been going on for some time now.....
Best reply ever!! +1111111111111
"I used to pray every night for a bike and I got nothing"
"Then, I realised it was better to steal a bike and pray for forgiveness"
This is why they need regular wipes.
I for one do not mind starting a character all over again because I ENJOY PLAYING THE GAME.
For all the losers who wanna QQ about wipes go play something else. Obviously you don't enjoy playing this game as much.
I read someone earlier say that STO had the same bug in the past. But seeing that pic... It just kind of baffles me why they wouldn't check all their games for the same issue.
I know but a lot of these clowns don't have the brains to figure this out themselves