they already have. hello friendly neighborhood exploiter, I hope you get to keep the mule accounts you stashed all your goods on and likely exploited on if you were smart enough to preserve your main account also.
I bought the $60 founder pack and have no regrets because I have thoroughly enjoyed my time with Neverwinter. Unfortunately I spent $50 yesterday to buy Zen which I converted to AD. I of course will wait to see how Cryptic decides to handle this first, but if I don't feel it's been sufficiently resolved I will request a refund for yesterdays Zen purchase. If that doesn't work, I'll have no choice but to dispute this with my bank.
No, what would happen there is you would get the ZEN refunded. As to the AD side, that side of the game is internal. ZEN isnt since it can be used in all their games in one way or another. The problem is there is NO actual basis with NW for value when it comes to AD and ZEN. What they should have done was put a fixed AD value to ZEN.
First off, stop saying this is beta. When you're charging money and not doing wipes, it's a launch. News media have a term for this: a "soft launch". Cryptic knew this game wasn't ready for launch, but they launched anyways.
Secondly, everyone who has any amount of IQ knows that in F2P games there will be exploiters and gold sellers because the two synergize off each other. Exploiter John will gather <insert valueable resource> and sell it to Gold Seller Bob. Since PWE's stable is pretty much F2P games, you would think they'd know by now how to handle this problem. Apparently they either (1) don't know how or (2) don't care.
Third, this exploit has been reported in the past as stated previously in this thread. Why did it take Cryptic so long to do anything? One would think that if an exploit is reported the devs would take it seriously and look into it. Sure some people are unprincipled and would just quietly exploit, but there are many more people who have integrity and reported it once found.
I know Cryptic has said there will be no wipes, since they don't want to tick off players in the infancy of the game. However, I for one, would support a full blown wipe. Reset everything to day one. Just refund all AD to those that bought packs, refund all Zen that was transferred to Neverwinter and let those that equipped a Nightmare Mount keep it. I have no 60's so I could start over.
You know, I just hope they wipe and start from day 1. Everyone who bought whatever they bought should get it back, and start over with us. This is a beta, everyone needs to quit crying about this. The people who are responsible will have consequences, but that doesn't mean that it will reverse the damage. A ton of zen has been laundered to numerous accounts, everyone in-game was trading in CATS, this is beyond sad that everyone and I do mean EVERYONE in the community got involved, and basically 90% of the accounts are tainted and guilty.
Not everyone.
I didn't get involved; in fact, I only found out what was happening with the exploits minutes before the servers went down. I certainly didn't buy any cats - ever, in fact, even before I knew about all this.
As for "90% of the accounts [being] tainted," I don't think that's the case. Just because you & your buddies' accounts might be, don't assume everyone else did the same. Plus, I'll bet the actual exploiters only account for a small number of people. Not 90% of players.
Tone down the hyperbole, alright?
What I see is the backlash of Perfect World's illogical idea to mouth the words Open Beta when it's the real launch & start selling zen during what they pretend is a "beta". I doubt they learn the lesson though.
There may/will be rollbacks of everything? Toon level progress? Crafting progress? Money progress only?
Should I even play at this point? Or will I lose any progress? May? Will? Etc.?
This post could be so much more informative.
I'm not sure what everyone is so wound up about. If they did a roll back of all progress, what difference does it make in the long run? You run a few missions all over again? You have a chance at getting some other gear? Perhaps a little frustrating, but much better than an over-inflated economy by far.
DCUO had a problem with a similar exploit in the Auction House and they didn't want to take the measure needed to fix it early. The result is that DCUO's game economy is still severely, severely broken.
I, for one, would much rather see strong measures taken now to save the headaches a month or a year from now.
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slugormasterMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 35Arc User
edited May 2013
I purchased a founders pack after about 5 days of playing. I spent REAL MONEY to support this game. And I can assure you, that ANYONE who spent real money to support this game will support a FULL WIPE. Look at the number of people who purchased packs, be it $20.00 or $50.00 or $200.00. We PAID to support this game, but the exploit was STEALING our money. I have 2 lvl 60's and an lvl 30, and I fully support a total wipe. As long as I get my AD and ZEN back to original purchase value, I have no problems doing it all over again. If the exploit was being used from Day 1, then the VALUE of my AD/ZEN was corrupted from what I purchased, and I LOST money. I probably have over 100 hours invested, but I'll give up that time to have a fixed economy. Permanently BAN all the exploiters by IP address, and reset it back to zero. And for the record, KEEP the AH offline. Just like Diablo 3, as soon as you have REAL MONEY involved in fake transactions, you ARE going to have exploiters. The short term fix is to wipe, refund all AD/ZEN, and keep the AH offline. The longer term fix is to sell stuff to vendors, and let the vendors resell stuff at a markup. That way if the vendor offers you 250K AD for your T3 gear, you could BUY it from the vendor for 500K. Stop mixing AD with ZEN. Make it so you can BUY stuff for AD from the special vendors. Heck, if a Bag of Holding is 1000 ZEN, and you want a 300-1 ZEN/AD ratio, then SELL the Bag for 300,000 AD. or whatever ratio works. Sure, there will always be people exploiting the game. But, as long as it doesn't affect MY money, I don't care so much. This exploit DIRECTLY affected how I could play the game, so a full wipe/ban is the only fix. Look at the number of people who paid money for this. THOSE are the ONLY people you should care about, and THOSE are the ones who got screwed.
You assume a lot if you think we're not upset with the exploiters as well. Unfortunately in a situation like this, the responsibility falls on the developers. This was a known issue. They could have taken steps to fix it much sooner than now. It's happened before. They have the resources available to fix this issue. STO had this EXACT same issue. It's been fixed. Why are we dealing with this again? Because incompetent people were allowed to spill their incompetence all over the game and make a mess.
We are mad at the exploiters, but if the Neverwinter dev team had done it's job... we wouldn't be here talking about this.
"thumbs up"
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masarykMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
If this was all a PWE ploy to gain twitter followers, they've gained thousands lol.
Actually, refunding the zen and giving it back to the customer protects them from any lawsuits, also the TOS i am sure cover all the virtual use in game and allow them to at ANY time take your account away, no repercussions legally.
Notice the 'L' next to Neverwinter? That means 'Live.' If this was still an Open Beta, it would be an 'O.'
Notice the huge graphic on that page you linked to that says "NEVERWINTER: Now in Open Beta!"
That means it's an open beta. That "L" is either a mistake, or this game had an open beta of about 5 minutes (since I saw that L there on April 30).
No wipe is not a good idea. I know it would have pissed off a lot of people but it would have restored faith in the community as well. The 'no wipe' means your going to miss a group of them, they are going to return and they are goign to destroy the economy completley again, and you will be back to square one.
Or, your left with leaving several happy HAMSTER who can completely overpower anybody in pvp because they have godly equipment slotted, or who can fund endless expansions to their guild or friends because they have too much zen, or artificially keep the prices on transfer high cos they have so much...etc
Thats not even talking about th large mass of idiots who steamrolled from 1-60 in 2-3 hours, then not knowing how to play their class at all for the most part proceeded to complain on forum about everything and anything...(Frankly no matter how much experience you have, if you went 1-60 via exploits you didnt have the time required to really get to grips with your class and shouldnt be commenting balance. at all.)
Oh well. I'll keep playing and having fun but I guess the economy is going to take months to recover.
Yep, very disappointed. I think months for the economy to recover is a bit of wishful thinking. I am holding out now for a new shard with no broken economy. If that doesn't happen I can just find another game or something to amuse me til Wildstar. Sad because this was otherwise a nice game, but now it's ruined for me, and absolutely no faith at all in PWE, none at all.
Y'know, tossing my two copper into this.. I think we should replace the currency of the AH from Astral Diamonds to just Gold, Silver and Copper. And fix that minus exploit too.
Also where do these Astral Diamonds come from? Where are they mined? Is it some sort of special plane that they are mined from? I would accept them alot more if I knew about these strange stones and their meaning.
I purchased a founders pack after about 5 days of playing. I spent REAL MONEY to support this game. And I can assure you, that ANYONE who spent real money to support this game will support a FULL WIPE. Look at the number of people who purchased packs, be it $20.00 or $50.00 or $200.00. We PAID to support this game, but the exploit was STEALING our money. I have 2 lvl 60's and an lvl 30, and I fully support a total wipe. As long as I get my AD and ZEN back to original purchase value, I have no problems doing it all over again. If the exploit was being used from Day 1, then the VALUE of my AD/ZEN was corrupted from what I purchased, and I LOST money. I probably have over 100 hours invested, but I'll give up that time to have a fixed economy. Permanently BAN all the exploiters by IP address, and reset it back to zero. And for the record, KEEP the AH offline. Just like Diablo 3, as soon as you have REAL MONEY involved in fake transactions, you ARE going to have exploiters. The short term fix is to wipe, refund all AD/ZEN, and keep the AH offline. The longer term fix is to sell stuff to vendors, and let the vendors resell stuff at a markup. That way if the vendor offers you 250K AD for your T3 gear, you could BUY it from the vendor for 500K. Stop mixing AD with ZEN. Make it so you can BUY stuff for AD from the special vendors. Heck, if a Bag of Holding is 1000 ZEN, and you want a 300-1 ZEN/AD ratio, then SELL the Bag for 300,000 AD. or whatever ratio works. Sure, there will always be people exploiting the game. But, as long as it doesn't affect MY money, I don't care so much. This exploit DIRECTLY affected how I could play the game, so a full wipe/ban is the only fix. Look at the number of people who paid money for this. THOSE are the ONLY people you should care about, and THOSE are the ones who got screwed.
My god man, let it go! A full wipe is absurd and it's just not happening. Sorry you wasted your $200, but you're not getting that back. I wasted @24k on a Durango in the 90s and nobody gave a HAMSTER then, either ...
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masarykMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
Im in for 260 bucks, been playing 2 weeks, and I support a wipe.
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aeofellMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 3Arc User
Hopefully there is. Beta or not. People did it knowing that it was a broken mechanic.
WIPE it clean or start a new shard after the exploit is fixed and BAN Hammer has been used to the max and all misappropriated AD has been taken away from said accounts, mule accounts, secondary accounts... see where I am going with this.... no way to track it all down imo.... its broken.... WIPE it clean.
I can see the amount of refunds/charge backs that will be put through banks when people see their Founder Packs are full of worthless AD now! Staggering how wiping the server is so much easier to do, but loosing all the money in people leaving and of course the worse snafu in MMO "soft launch" history!! Doubt many companies follow in the soft launch idea now!!
Just wipe it, restart it, so we can get back to playing for crying out loud, you are spending all this time working on fixing an issue that cant be bits and pieces picked and sifted through to find all the accounts that have 100,000,000+ AD scattered through the game on several accounts and mules. Their have been many posts about how you couldn't and didn't find it before here http://www.reddit.com/r/Neverwinter/comments/1eebyi/an_exploiter_claims_to_have_made_almost_six/ What makes you think a few hours of downtime is going to allow you to find them all now??
No wipe or no rollback means they lost this legit, paying customer.
The economy is ruined. People converted their unlimited AD to gold, handed out a HAMSTER ton of items (none of which I took, I just logged on today to read all the drama), cats, gold, etc. Just banning some people isn't fixing it.
It's a BETA, I'm glad someone tried to game the system during the BETA, they should get the gold star award, not a ban. Everyone whining in the thread about "I lost 12 hours of game play and i only play on the weekend" and demanding details, or anything for that matter, shouldn't of signed up to be involved in the BETA. You sound like a child that whined and moaned every day for a week and mom and dad finally let you open your Christmas presents early. Then are throwing a tantrum because you have nothing to open on Christmas day!
That's just silly.
The people who should get a "gold star" are the ones who everyday stumble upon exploits and quietly report them via the proper channels. That's the proper way to help a company during a BETA. The people who were exploiting weren't exploiting for the good of the game, or to help fix holes in the gameplay, they were hoping not to get caught and to profit at the expense of the game itself and other gamers by extension of a ruined economy.
Finding exploits is crucial to the game's long-term survivability regardless of how they are found, however, breaking a part of the game in the process is counter-productive.
Comments
let's see how much of a rollback there was...
****, I guess all Islamics are terrorists, too...
First off, stop saying this is beta. When you're charging money and not doing wipes, it's a launch. News media have a term for this: a "soft launch". Cryptic knew this game wasn't ready for launch, but they launched anyways.
Secondly, everyone who has any amount of IQ knows that in F2P games there will be exploiters and gold sellers because the two synergize off each other. Exploiter John will gather <insert valueable resource> and sell it to Gold Seller Bob. Since PWE's stable is pretty much F2P games, you would think they'd know by now how to handle this problem. Apparently they either (1) don't know how or (2) don't care.
Third, this exploit has been reported in the past as stated previously in this thread. Why did it take Cryptic so long to do anything? One would think that if an exploit is reported the devs would take it seriously and look into it. Sure some people are unprincipled and would just quietly exploit, but there are many more people who have integrity and reported it once found.
I know Cryptic has said there will be no wipes, since they don't want to tick off players in the infancy of the game. However, I for one, would support a full blown wipe. Reset everything to day one. Just refund all AD to those that bought packs, refund all Zen that was transferred to Neverwinter and let those that equipped a Nightmare Mount keep it. I have no 60's so I could start over.
https://twitter.com/NeverwinterGame
Not everyone.
I didn't get involved; in fact, I only found out what was happening with the exploits minutes before the servers went down. I certainly didn't buy any cats - ever, in fact, even before I knew about all this.
As for "90% of the accounts [being] tainted," I don't think that's the case. Just because you & your buddies' accounts might be, don't assume everyone else did the same. Plus, I'll bet the actual exploiters only account for a small number of people. Not 90% of players.
Tone down the hyperbole, alright?
all my farm is worthless now
I'm not sure what everyone is so wound up about. If they did a roll back of all progress, what difference does it make in the long run? You run a few missions all over again? You have a chance at getting some other gear? Perhaps a little frustrating, but much better than an over-inflated economy by far.
DCUO had a problem with a similar exploit in the Auction House and they didn't want to take the measure needed to fix it early. The result is that DCUO's game economy is still severely, severely broken.
I, for one, would much rather see strong measures taken now to save the headaches a month or a year from now.
Why would the servers be up? It will probably be a few hours before they will be...
trolll troll in the dungeon !!
Just checked still isn't up
"thumbs up"
people selling ad outside of neverwinter was not the problem they are having
Head of PR
http://www.gamersaurs.com/
Notice the huge graphic on that page you linked to that says "NEVERWINTER: Now in Open Beta!"
That means it's an open beta. That "L" is either a mistake, or this game had an open beta of about 5 minutes (since I saw that L there on April 30).
Yep, very disappointed. I think months for the economy to recover is a bit of wishful thinking. I am holding out now for a new shard with no broken economy. If that doesn't happen I can just find another game or something to amuse me til Wildstar. Sad because this was otherwise a nice game, but now it's ruined for me, and absolutely no faith at all in PWE, none at all.
Also where do these Astral Diamonds come from? Where are they mined? Is it some sort of special plane that they are mined from? I would accept them alot more if I knew about these strange stones and their meaning.
My god man, let it go! A full wipe is absurd and it's just not happening. Sorry you wasted your $200, but you're not getting that back. I wasted @24k on a Durango in the 90s and nobody gave a HAMSTER then, either ...
No it is deffo beta, and they have not charged me a single penny.
Have fun.
WIPE it clean or start a new shard after the exploit is fixed and BAN Hammer has been used to the max and all misappropriated AD has been taken away from said accounts, mule accounts, secondary accounts... see where I am going with this.... no way to track it all down imo.... its broken.... WIPE it clean.
I can see the amount of refunds/charge backs that will be put through banks when people see their Founder Packs are full of worthless AD now! Staggering how wiping the server is so much easier to do, but loosing all the money in people leaving and of course the worse snafu in MMO "soft launch" history!! Doubt many companies follow in the soft launch idea now!!
Just wipe it, restart it, so we can get back to playing for crying out loud, you are spending all this time working on fixing an issue that cant be bits and pieces picked and sifted through to find all the accounts that have 100,000,000+ AD scattered through the game on several accounts and mules. Their have been many posts about how you couldn't and didn't find it before here http://www.reddit.com/r/Neverwinter/comments/1eebyi/an_exploiter_claims_to_have_made_almost_six/ What makes you think a few hours of downtime is going to allow you to find them all now??
And this had potential too... too sad!
The economy is ruined. People converted their unlimited AD to gold, handed out a HAMSTER ton of items (none of which I took, I just logged on today to read all the drama), cats, gold, etc. Just banning some people isn't fixing it.
That's just silly.
The people who should get a "gold star" are the ones who everyday stumble upon exploits and quietly report them via the proper channels. That's the proper way to help a company during a BETA. The people who were exploiting weren't exploiting for the good of the game, or to help fix holes in the gameplay, they were hoping not to get caught and to profit at the expense of the game itself and other gamers by extension of a ruined economy.
Finding exploits is crucial to the game's long-term survivability regardless of how they are found, however, breaking a part of the game in the process is counter-productive.