leyentMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 3Arc User
edited May 2013
Geez, this is something.
I feel like we're all standing around the body of someone we ran over while joyriding - and the devs just decided not to call the cops.
We're all going to live with this sour taste in our mouths if there is no wipe, every single time you look at AD you will remember this moment.
Until a murderer with an icepick comes to get us all.
Oh - it isn't summer yet...
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clortbagsMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
lesson learned for me i guess, don't play honest, exploiting smart will get you way ahead of people playing honestly and working hard for everything.
sigh.
Good Advice. do it on and stash it on mule accounts though, we recently discovered that's a safe and viable option. Happy hunting bro.
So farewell hope, and with hope farewell fear,
Farewell remorse; all good to me is lost.
Evil, be thou my good.
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naero111Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
So you're really that dumb? Who said they were keeping ****? They are going to fix it without wipes. Track down the accounts, ban them, move on. "
why call him dumb. How hard would it be to launder the diamonds threw multiple free accounts. Dups trillions. post up items on other accounts and just buy em all up. Its not dumb to think that it might be fairly diffacult to track it all down. buy items trade them resell them. on and on.
edit- screwed up the quote
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calaminthaMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
I'm glad they are banning the exploiters instead of punishing everyone.
If they are not removing every single exploited item/AD they are punishing every legitimate player.
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aerhaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 19Arc User
edited May 2013
As far as I'm concerned, this game is really good, and the only ones we should be mad at, are the exploiters. They found a way to try and ruin a bright future for this game, and I say the amin take the time they need to fix the issue, rather than a fast outcome no one will be happy with.
It's a BETA, I'm glad someone tried to game the system during the BETA, they should get the gold star award, not a ban. Everyone whining in the thread about "I lost 12 hours of game play and i only play on the weekend" and demanding details, or anything for that matter, shouldn't of signed up to be involved in the BETA. You sound like a child that whined and moaned every day for a week and mom and dad finally let you open your Christmas presents early. Then are throwing a tantrum because you have nothing to open on Christmas day!
Hopefully there's no punishments for the people who did this. It's a beta afterall.
What? Are you serious? People who did this need to be permabanned. At worst, they did something that could permanently destroy the game. At best, if Cryptic finds a way to fix it with no wipes/rollbacks, they caused a full day of downtime.
Lol you need to go play a single player game sir. You are obviously not competitive which is all MMOs are about, spending money/ time etc to be the best and ofc having fun. If everyone thought/played like you then they would have no game.
I wasn't really trying to antagonize anyone, or make them defensive, but I suppose I failed in that goal. I'll try to explain myself, and once again, I'll use bullet points :
1) I play single-player games. I love them. I spend far more time on them than I should. Here's a little secret for you, though: sometime you beat a game...then you beat it another way, or with another character...and so on. Then, if it's a game you REALLY enjoyed, you have to stop and wait for an expansion to get more content. Sometimes, and I know a multi-player guru such as yourself will find this hard to believe, there IS no expansion or sequel!!! Oh no!
2) Within the constructs of the games themselves, I tend to pay for play. I'm an adult. I make money. I have no problem spending that money on things I enjoy. If I decide to spend all my time in this game at level 2, dropping cash (or not) on dye packs, how does that impinge on your enjoyment? In fact, how does that not enable the devs to produce more and better content for those of you who advance past level 2? In your world of "compete-or-die", I'm only benefitting you.
3) Speaking of competition, I'm as competitive as they come....in the real world. I play video games for a change of pace. Where do you get the idea that your conception of what I should do with my free time is any concern of mine? In my day-to-day job, losing means death; not just for me, but for quite a few other people whom I respect very much. It's very refreshing to enter a virtual world where that's not the case.
4) If everyone played/thought like me, they'd have an almost limitless budget and would be able to develop games you couldn't even dream of. The last "free-to-play" game I played (SW:KOTOR), received over 1k in microtransactions from me as well as dual subscriptions (me and my son). We quit that game for this one.
I do love the fact everyone is so vehemently angry with Cryptic and PW. I know the term 'beta; is very loose and it is essentially a released game. I know they could handle this better and for once it would be NICE for a developer to put foresight into how exactly they will handle this type of stuff because they know it will happen at some point and we want to know right away how it will be handled.
But how come noone ever gets mad at the selfish few people who find an exploit then abuse it? I guess because we don't know who they are, but in reality they are the ones who cause this. Instead of having some concern for others and some degree of integrity, they find holes (which there will always be) and exploit them. I guess their personal moment of getting it over on someone outweighs being concerned with the enjoyment of thousands of others.
You assume a lot if you think we're not upset with the exploiters as well. Unfortunately in a situation like this, the responsibility falls on the developers. This was a known issue. They could have taken steps to fix it much sooner than now. It's happened before. They have the resources available to fix this issue. STO had this EXACT same issue. It's been fixed. Why are we dealing with this again? Because incompetent people were allowed to spill their incompetence all over the game and make a mess.
We are mad at the exploiters, but if the Neverwinter dev team had done it's job... we wouldn't be here talking about this.
Rollbacks have the same consequences as a wipe and will open them up to class action lawsuits. You can't do that sort of thing when real money is involved. Just refunding Zen does not make people whole.
Could you explain how a class action lawsuit would be appropriate when a rollback is executed, and all Zen is refunded? Since you have gotten what you paid for, wouldn't that make it okay, legally? I bet this is covered in the ToS btw, but I can't be bothered (and I know, they don't hold up all that well in court).
Geez, this is something.
I feel like we're all standing around the body of someone we ran over while joyriding - and the devs just decided not to call the cops.
We're all going to live with this sour taste in our mouths if there is no wipe, every single time you look at AD you will remember this moment.
Until a murderer with an icepick comes to get us all.
Oh - it isn't summer yet...
You need to work on your analogies mate.
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ellindar1Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
It's a BETA, I'm glad someone tried to game the system during the BETA, they should get the gold star award, not a ban. Everyone whining in the thread about "I lost 12 hours of game play and i only play on the weekend" and demanding details, or anything for that matter, shouldn't of signed up to be involved in the BETA. You sound like a child that whined and moaned every day for a week and mom and dad finally let you open your Christmas presents early. Then are throwing a tantrum because you have nothing to open on Christmas day!
Rollbacks have the same consequences as a wipe and will open them up to class action lawsuits. You can't do that sort of thing when real money is involved. Just refunding Zen does not make people whole.
Other games with real money have rollbacked before. Nothing ever came of any lawsuits. You buy the virtual currency not the virtual items. As long as they give you back the currency they are covering their legal obligations.
Halgarth's Legacy-NWS-DSTGFZHFR
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clortbagsMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
No wipe is not a good idea. I know it would have pissed off a lot of people but it would have restored faith in the community as well. The 'no wipe' means your going to miss a group of them, they are going to return and they are goign to destroy the economy completley again, and you will be back to square one.
Or, your left with leaving several happy <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> who can completely overpower anybody in pvp because they have godly equipment slotted, or who can fund endless expansions to their guild or friends because they have too much zen, or artificially keep the prices on transfer high cos they have so much...etc
Thats not even talking about th large mass of idiots who steamrolled from 1-60 in 2-3 hours, then not knowing how to play their class at all for the most part proceeded to complain on forum about everything and anything...(Frankly no matter how much experience you have, if you went 1-60 via exploits you didnt have the time required to really get to grips with your class and shouldnt be commenting balance. at all.)
Oh well. I'll keep playing and having fun but I guess the economy is going to take months to recover.
Rollbacks are not wipes. Rollbacks are still an option. They even mentioned it in the first post.
Rollbacks have the same consequences as a wipe and will open them up to class action lawsuits. You can't do that sort of thing when real money is involved. Just refunding Zen does not make people whole.
The Astral Diamond Exchange and the Auction House have been temporarily taken offline to resolve a high priority bug.
At this time we are still investigating the details regarding the issue and will post more information as the situation progresses.
As the issue involves in-game currency, we understand that there may be questions regarding the follow up actions needed to ensure that the economy remains fair and balanced. At this time we are still in the process of collecting the data, but plan to share details regarding follow up actions once the investigation concludes. Thank you for your patience and understanding while we continually smooth out issues during open beta.
Sincerely,
Dezstravus and the Neverwinter Team
Update 12PM Pacific: We are still investigating the situation. There is a high likelihood that we will be performing character-specific rollbacks on any accounts that were found to be utilizing the exploit. Additionally, we are investigating the extent of what can additional steps can be taken to remove any illegitimately obtained Astral Diamonds that have entered into the economy. We are also investigating the possibility of a shard-wide rollback. Update 12:15PM Pacific: We're bringing the shards down temporarily to better investigate the issue. Estimated downtime is 1 hour. Thank you! Update 12:45PM Pacific: We're still investigating the issue and will have more information for you as soon as possible. Thank you for your patience! Update 12:55PM Pacific: The shard downtime will be extended for two more hours as we address the AD/AH issue. More details soon - thank you! Update 1:30PM Pacific: We are identifying the accounts that have utilized the AH exploit and will be taking action against said accounts. We are also still investigating the severity of the issue and its impact on the game, and from this information we will take corrective action. Estimated downtime is at least two more hours. We
Looks like someone hit "enter" too soon ...
Personally, I don't really care what you guys do about this, just please let me back on my little rogue ASAP so I can deft strike some ratmonsters and zombies ;-)
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cutegayMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 24Arc User
edited May 2013
What Crytic FAILS to REALIZE is that this game is FREE TOO PLAY so banning has no consequences what so ever.
The Exploiters will always come back on another account.
I have a level 60 character and I wouldn't mind a complete wipe to fix all this.
This has been going on since day 1. People have been selling 17mil AD for real cash outside neverwinter.
Just google 'neverwinter cheap astral diamond'
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avluela2Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 3Arc User
edited May 2013
U all forget that this is a BETA! wtf! Its not PWI fault that u stupid ppl pay 200 dollars or more for a BETA. hahahahhaha
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boritoMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 2Arc User
Other games with real money have rollbacked before. Nothing ever came of any lawsuits. You buy the virtual currency not the virtual items. As long as they give you back the currency they are covering their legal obligations.
PW offers a Beta no wipe
PW does a wipe
PW didn't give his customers what they offered
Ppl asks for refunds
gg PW.
they already have. hello friendly neighborhood exploiter, I hope you get to keep the mule accounts you stashed all your goods on and likely exploited on if you were smart enough to preserve your main account also.
I bought the $60 founder pack and have no regrets because I have thoroughly enjoyed my time with Neverwinter. Unfortunately I spent $50 yesterday to buy Zen which I converted to AD. I of course will wait to see how Cryptic decides to handle this first, but if I don't feel it's been sufficiently resolved I will request a refund for yesterdays Zen purchase. If that doesn't work, I'll have no choice but to dispute this with my bank.
No, what would happen there is you would get the ZEN refunded. As to the AD side, that side of the game is internal. ZEN isnt since it can be used in all their games in one way or another. The problem is there is NO actual basis with NW for value when it comes to AD and ZEN. What they should have done was put a fixed AD value to ZEN.
First off, stop saying this is beta. When you're charging money and not doing wipes, it's a launch. News media have a term for this: a "soft launch". Cryptic knew this game wasn't ready for launch, but they launched anyways.
Secondly, everyone who has any amount of IQ knows that in F2P games there will be exploiters and gold sellers because the two synergize off each other. Exploiter John will gather <insert valueable resource> and sell it to Gold Seller Bob. Since PWE's stable is pretty much F2P games, you would think they'd know by now how to handle this problem. Apparently they either (1) don't know how or (2) don't care.
Third, this exploit has been reported in the past as stated previously in this thread. Why did it take Cryptic so long to do anything? One would think that if an exploit is reported the devs would take it seriously and look into it. Sure some people are unprincipled and would just quietly exploit, but there are many more people who have integrity and reported it once found.
I know Cryptic has said there will be no wipes, since they don't want to tick off players in the infancy of the game. However, I for one, would support a full blown wipe. Reset everything to day one. Just refund all AD to those that bought packs, refund all Zen that was transferred to Neverwinter and let those that equipped a Nightmare Mount keep it. I have no 60's so I could start over.
You know, I just hope they wipe and start from day 1. Everyone who bought whatever they bought should get it back, and start over with us. This is a beta, everyone needs to quit crying about this. The people who are responsible will have consequences, but that doesn't mean that it will reverse the damage. A ton of zen has been laundered to numerous accounts, everyone in-game was trading in CATS, this is beyond sad that everyone and I do mean EVERYONE in the community got involved, and basically 90% of the accounts are tainted and guilty.
Not everyone.
I didn't get involved; in fact, I only found out what was happening with the exploits minutes before the servers went down. I certainly didn't buy any cats - ever, in fact, even before I knew about all this.
As for "90% of the accounts [being] tainted," I don't think that's the case. Just because you & your buddies' accounts might be, don't assume everyone else did the same. Plus, I'll bet the actual exploiters only account for a small number of people. Not 90% of players.
Tone down the hyperbole, alright?
What I see is the backlash of Perfect World's illogical idea to mouth the words Open Beta when it's the real launch & start selling zen during what they pretend is a "beta". I doubt they learn the lesson though.
Comments
I feel like we're all standing around the body of someone we ran over while joyriding - and the devs just decided not to call the cops.
We're all going to live with this sour taste in our mouths if there is no wipe, every single time you look at AD you will remember this moment.
Until a murderer with an icepick comes to get us all.
Oh - it isn't summer yet...
There seems to be a lot of extremely stupid people in this thread that don't know how to read or digest simple information huh!
Good Advice. do it on and stash it on mule accounts though, we recently discovered that's a safe and viable option. Happy hunting bro.
Farewell remorse; all good to me is lost.
Evil, be thou my good.
why call him dumb. How hard would it be to launder the diamonds threw multiple free accounts. Dups trillions. post up items on other accounts and just buy em all up. Its not dumb to think that it might be fairly diffacult to track it all down. buy items trade them resell them. on and on.
edit- screwed up the quote
If they are not removing every single exploited item/AD they are punishing every legitimate player.
What? Are you serious? People who did this need to be permabanned. At worst, they did something that could permanently destroy the game. At best, if Cryptic finds a way to fix it with no wipes/rollbacks, they caused a full day of downtime.
I wasn't really trying to antagonize anyone, or make them defensive, but I suppose I failed in that goal. I'll try to explain myself, and once again, I'll use bullet points
1) I play single-player games. I love them. I spend far more time on them than I should. Here's a little secret for you, though: sometime you beat a game...then you beat it another way, or with another character...and so on. Then, if it's a game you REALLY enjoyed, you have to stop and wait for an expansion to get more content. Sometimes, and I know a multi-player guru such as yourself will find this hard to believe, there IS no expansion or sequel!!! Oh no!
2) Within the constructs of the games themselves, I tend to pay for play. I'm an adult. I make money. I have no problem spending that money on things I enjoy. If I decide to spend all my time in this game at level 2, dropping cash (or not) on dye packs, how does that impinge on your enjoyment? In fact, how does that not enable the devs to produce more and better content for those of you who advance past level 2? In your world of "compete-or-die", I'm only benefitting you.
3) Speaking of competition, I'm as competitive as they come....in the real world. I play video games for a change of pace. Where do you get the idea that your conception of what I should do with my free time is any concern of mine? In my day-to-day job, losing means death; not just for me, but for quite a few other people whom I respect very much. It's very refreshing to enter a virtual world where that's not the case.
4) If everyone played/thought like me, they'd have an almost limitless budget and would be able to develop games you couldn't even dream of. The last "free-to-play" game I played (SW:KOTOR), received over 1k in microtransactions from me as well as dual subscriptions (me and my son). We quit that game for this one.
You assume a lot if you think we're not upset with the exploiters as well. Unfortunately in a situation like this, the responsibility falls on the developers. This was a known issue. They could have taken steps to fix it much sooner than now. It's happened before. They have the resources available to fix this issue. STO had this EXACT same issue. It's been fixed. Why are we dealing with this again? Because incompetent people were allowed to spill their incompetence all over the game and make a mess.
We are mad at the exploiters, but if the Neverwinter dev team had done it's job... we wouldn't be here talking about this.
Could you explain how a class action lawsuit would be appropriate when a rollback is executed, and all Zen is refunded? Since you have gotten what you paid for, wouldn't that make it okay, legally? I bet this is covered in the ToS btw, but I can't be bothered (and I know, they don't hold up all that well in court).
You need to work on your analogies mate.
^ Another worried exploiter lol
Other games with real money have rollbacked before. Nothing ever came of any lawsuits. You buy the virtual currency not the virtual items. As long as they give you back the currency they are covering their legal obligations.
Also his logic, lateral thinking and powers of deduction...
No wipe is not a good idea. I know it would have pissed off a lot of people but it would have restored faith in the community as well. The 'no wipe' means your going to miss a group of them, they are going to return and they are goign to destroy the economy completley again, and you will be back to square one.
Or, your left with leaving several happy <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> who can completely overpower anybody in pvp because they have godly equipment slotted, or who can fund endless expansions to their guild or friends because they have too much zen, or artificially keep the prices on transfer high cos they have so much...etc
Thats not even talking about th large mass of idiots who steamrolled from 1-60 in 2-3 hours, then not knowing how to play their class at all for the most part proceeded to complain on forum about everything and anything...(Frankly no matter how much experience you have, if you went 1-60 via exploits you didnt have the time required to really get to grips with your class and shouldnt be commenting balance. at all.)
Oh well. I'll keep playing and having fun but I guess the economy is going to take months to recover.
Head of PR
http://www.gamersaurs.com/
Rollbacks have the same consequences as a wipe and will open them up to class action lawsuits. You can't do that sort of thing when real money is involved. Just refunding Zen does not make people whole.
Looks like someone hit "enter" too soon ...
Personally, I don't really care what you guys do about this, just please let me back on my little rogue ASAP so I can deft strike some ratmonsters and zombies ;-)
The Exploiters will always come back on another account.
I have a level 60 character and I wouldn't mind a complete wipe to fix all this.
This has been going on since day 1. People have been selling 17mil AD for real cash outside neverwinter.
Just google 'neverwinter cheap astral diamond'
PW offers a Beta no wipe
PW does a wipe
PW didn't give his customers what they offered
Ppl asks for refunds
gg PW.
let's see how much of a rollback there was...
****, I guess all Islamics are terrorists, too...
First off, stop saying this is beta. When you're charging money and not doing wipes, it's a launch. News media have a term for this: a "soft launch". Cryptic knew this game wasn't ready for launch, but they launched anyways.
Secondly, everyone who has any amount of IQ knows that in F2P games there will be exploiters and gold sellers because the two synergize off each other. Exploiter John will gather <insert valueable resource> and sell it to Gold Seller Bob. Since PWE's stable is pretty much F2P games, you would think they'd know by now how to handle this problem. Apparently they either (1) don't know how or (2) don't care.
Third, this exploit has been reported in the past as stated previously in this thread. Why did it take Cryptic so long to do anything? One would think that if an exploit is reported the devs would take it seriously and look into it. Sure some people are unprincipled and would just quietly exploit, but there are many more people who have integrity and reported it once found.
I know Cryptic has said there will be no wipes, since they don't want to tick off players in the infancy of the game. However, I for one, would support a full blown wipe. Reset everything to day one. Just refund all AD to those that bought packs, refund all Zen that was transferred to Neverwinter and let those that equipped a Nightmare Mount keep it. I have no 60's so I could start over.
https://twitter.com/NeverwinterGame
Not everyone.
I didn't get involved; in fact, I only found out what was happening with the exploits minutes before the servers went down. I certainly didn't buy any cats - ever, in fact, even before I knew about all this.
As for "90% of the accounts [being] tainted," I don't think that's the case. Just because you & your buddies' accounts might be, don't assume everyone else did the same. Plus, I'll bet the actual exploiters only account for a small number of people. Not 90% of players.
Tone down the hyperbole, alright?