Things happen. -shrug- Go outside. Play with the kids. Do the laundry you've been putting off all week. Or keep playing. It's not like the servers are down. And if Nwn is all you have to do? Get outta the basement and go see the sun. (Yes, I know it burns!!) It's a game.
There is money involved for some of us, and not necessarily small sums. Plainly put, I need to know whether they do a rollback or come up with an equivalent solution before PayPal's deadline for disputes is up. I am happy with my HotN pack, no regrets. But I also spent hundreds on Zen for ADs, and PWE will need to decide whether they want to keep the money for those Zen. If the exploiters, and those who benefit from them (e.g. all those folks who get free cats), get to keep their stuff, I think it is reasonable that I will want to keep my dollars.
I understand that this is no easy situation, and that it is a lose-lose scenario for them where no matter what they do, someone will be unhappy. I'm looking forward to the follow-up information that they will post when they have looked into situation. I certainly see no reason for drama or for anyone going off the deep end.
God I hope your guys logs can parse this kind of error. If the database can't be queried for this information, this is going to suuuuuuuck.
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caitatonicMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
I just don't understand why people are calling for a full wipe right now. It would be one thing if we came into open beta expecting a wipe to happen when the game officially launched, but one of the drawing points for playing right now was knowing anything we did right now would not be reset. Exploits have happened in the past, and I'm sure they will continue happening. Why wipe now when it's likely there will be more coming? Why wouldn't you just wipe right before launch if you were going to do it at all?
Did you know you can get Zen for free by filling out surveys and downloading programs? You do not have to pay a dime for anything in this game! If the AD to Zen ratio becomes <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, fill out surveys etc then exchange for AD.
And if they rollback, who is to say they won't rollback again a month later, and again after that? I certainly don't want to invest my time in a game where all my work can be wiped at a moments notice. Wiping might fix this exploit, but how about the next one, or the one after that?
The post below has been deleted by Perfect World multiple times. I am now concerned that if I continue posting it I will be banned from the game.
However, I am sure all the exploiters and gold sellers are perfectly safe in Perfect "Cheaters & Exploiters" World,
"There is no Zen available on Beholder server. It was all purchased by
exploiters who made billions or trillions of AD and then purchased all Zen
available. This exploit and event greatly benefits Perfect World, and that is
why this exploit happened and is continuing unabated.
Let's take the example of Enchanted Keys. Enchanted cost Zen. One Zen = one
U.S. penny; 100 Zen = U.S.$1. Astral Diamonds are an in-game only currency. A
player makes AD simply by playing the game. AD can then be used to purchase
Zen, which is needed to buy things like Bags, or Character Lots, or Bank Slots,
or Enchanted Keys.
So a person can avoid spending real-life money to get these types of goods by
getting AD and selling AD for Zen. The lower the AD price of Zen, the more a
player's AD is worth in terms of an Astral Diamonds ---> Zen (U.S.$) ratio.
This benefits the player and hurts Perfect World. The higher the exchange
ratio, the less buying power a player has with Astral Diamonds, and the more
likely it will be a player might go and actually purchase Zen with real-life
money to use in-game.
For example, an Enchanted Key costs 125 Zen, or U.S.$1.25. During the first
week of the game, the Zen-Astral Diamond exchange was 1:420. 42,000 Astral
Diamonds = 100 Zen or U.S.$1. Last night the ratio was down to 1:365. 36,500
Astral Diamonds = 100 Zen or U.S.$1. That means every single player had Astral
Diamonds that were more valuable, and therefore were less likely to need to go
and buy, with real-life money, Zen to use in the game.
Then this AH exploit happens. Exploiters get billions or trillions of AD and
buy all available Zen. Now the Zen, if any is for sale, is back to a ratio of
1:500. 50,000 Astral Diamonds = 100 Zen or U.S.$1. All Astral Diamonds, for
all players, is worth much less. It will take much more Astral Diamonds to buy
an Enchanted Key to open all those Nightmare Lockboxes, or a new Character Slot,
or Bank Slots, etc. Players are now more likely to get and purcahse Zen from
Perfect World in order to buy these items in-game, since our in-game currencies'
real world value has seriously fallen.
Perfect World is not talking about a server
rollback or character wipe, which would be the only ways to correct this issue.
You want an Enchanted Key or Character Slot? You are unable to purchase Zen
from the in-game Zen-Astral Diamond exchange at the last moment I was in-game.
You would have to go to Perfect World's Zen site, input your credit card
information, and purchase Zen with real-life money. Astral Diamonds are now
worthless. I was buying Enchanted Keys only with Zen exchanged from Astral
Diamonds. I cannot do that anymore.
Perfect World wins.
I would like my $60 back, please. I expect that to happen like I expect to wake
up tomorrow and be LeBron James. Another lesson learned--do not spend real-life
money on a Perfect World game, ever, or at least until they actually officially
launch it. Only use credit cards with some kind of serious buyer protection if
you ever Perfect World some of your hard-earned money. $60 is an expensive
lesson, but I did learn it. Oh, yes, I did."
Even thought it sounds "logical", i am pretty sure it's wrong. And i'll tell you why.
Perfect World, (and any company with a game), doesn't need exploiters to do such a thing. Just think for a moment, all this mess and all this that is happening right now, it's gonna hurt the company because players will leave.
Instead, if they wanted to "cheat" their game they could easily ask a GM to send a specific amount of AD and/or Zen to a person (their person ofc) with as simple command like /give @handler 10000 AD, a simple command that exists in 99,99% mmo games. And they would had avoid all that, no whining, no players leaving, no one would ever know anything.
So i am pretty sure that they don't want exploiters/cheaters because it does NOT benefit them, it hurts them.
Now you might ask how can we know if they haven't cheated with a GM already?
Well we don't, but we don't know this answer to any MMO at all, ether being F2P or B2P. Giving items can happen to all games, and we just trust that they wont do it, or at least that it wont affect anyone.
I don't care if we wipe and start over or w/e I just want my zen refunded in this game, Don't call it a beta, let me use real money, and then take it all away for your profit saying its my loss because it was a beta, that would be nothing less than theft.
You all make my head hurt. If you dont like the way the game is going leave. Its an Open-Beta. The game is open-open. They are not going to shut down and restart. What you have now, you will have. If this was just BETA- would you be spending real life money, on something that was just going to go poof suddenly? Also if you are threating the Dev's <fix it or else> they dont care if you leave or not. Also there is a method to see what item is in whose inventory, what time it was gotten, and by who. Its a simple code. All MMO's have it. -ALL- Now its kinda pointless to argue. So lets just head back in game. And try to sell each other Residum or a Mailsmith.
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atlasreduxMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 1Arc User
Did you know you can get Zen for free by filling out surveys and downloading programs? You do not have to pay a dime for anything in this game! If the AD to Zen ratio becomes <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, fill out surveys etc then exchange for AD.
That might work good for you in the US, but for instance in Norway, there isn't a single offer available. No surveys, NOTHING, not even offers that cost money, only purely buying Zen.
Stop assuming the entire world has the same options.
I just don't understand why people are calling for a full wipe right now. It would be one thing if we came into open beta expecting a wipe to happen when the game officially launched, but one of the drawing points for playing right now was knowing anything we did right now would not be reset. Exploits have happened in the past, and I'm sure they will continue happening. Why wipe now when it's likely there will be more coming?
I agree, and I think some people might be saying "wipe" when they mean "rollback".. One point I have seen people make is that the exploit has been around since day one and so a rollback of a few days wouldn't make sense, but if this exploit only exploded recently and was previously confined to just a few people, then why not roll back a few days, and then deal with the originators individually?
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ninjanemesisMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 3Arc User
There is money involved for some of us, and not necessarily small sums. Plainly put, I need to know whether they do a rollback or come up with an equivalent solution before PayPal's deadline for disputes is up. I am happy with my HotN pack, no regrets. But I also spent hundreds on Zen for ADs, and PWE will need to decide whether they want to keep the money for those Zen.
I can understand being upset about potentially losing money, but it's the same with any game. Turbine dealt with a similar issue with the TP. I'm sure WoW has had issues too. It's going to happen regardless of the game. I've lost count how much money I've spent with Turbine and DDO on various things. (Mostly companions/pets and armor kits, I like things pretty.)
Maybe I just look at things differently than others. I've only spent about 60-70 on Zen and I'm, honestly, not worried about it. It's money I'd have blown elsewhere.
Did you know you can get Zen for free by filling out surveys and downloading programs? You do not have to pay a dime for anything in this game! If the AD to Zen ratio becomes <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, fill out surveys etc then exchange for AD.
Downloading programs? Seems legit.
What do they gain from that? Oh that's right it's probably a virus or a program that steals data *legally* by stating it in the terms and conditions (which nobody reads).
Why didn't you shut down the servers immediatly? As soon as they read your message, people started selling cats for gold and other stuff like keys, or they probably spread the ADs on several alt accounts, offered it to friends, and so on.
I hope you will delete every single piece of ADs people created with the exploit. Even if it's been given to friends, traded, turned into items like cats and so on. If you don't then your game isn't worth playing it anymore.
I'm %100 sure they wont do any rollbacks they won't do anything. And I'm sad.
Yeah, I don't see them doing anything other than ban some accounts that have already laundered the currencies.
I guess the choice is wipe and lose many, many F2P who may not want to put in all of the work again
or
Don't wipe and lose far less people but people who spend money.
I figure they will see losing a few people who have spent money and dealing with that thing is the lesser of two evils.
Which is a shame because a wipe with zen refund would solve the issue.
I can't see myself doing a lot of PvP if enough people are max geared through exploits and I'm just setting myself up with the basics - so this kind of cuts off a whole side of the game.
I hope they see the long term picture and restart.
And if they rollback, who is to say they won't rollback again a month later, and again after that? I certainly don't want to invest my time in a game where all my work can be wiped at a moments notice. Wiping might fix this exploit, but how about the next one, or the one after that?
If they were to roll back to a few days ago before this thing exploded, then go on from there, you would lose a few days of work but not all of it. If there is a huge problem each month and they roll back a few days to fix it, then you're making progress maybe 25 out of 30 days per month. That sucks, i'll give you that, it's no fun to rollback at any time but it's not all of your work down the drain.
I agree, and I think some people might be saying "wipe" when they mean "rollback".. One point I have seen people make is that the exploit has been around since day one and so a rollback of a few days wouldn't make sense, but if this exploit only exploded recently and was previously confined to just a few people, then why not roll back a few days, and then deal with the originators individually?
Exactly. I understand it has been around for a long time, but it didn't have nearly the impact it is having now. It's funny to me that people are making a big deal out of it now, when they didn't even know it was going on in the background - so why exactly would we need a full wipe? While I don't agree with it, I think it's dumb to use that as an excuse to support a full wipe rather than just a rollback. Let the fact that it has been happening since day 1 go, as it clearly did not have a noticeable effect until today.
I agree, and I think some people might be saying "wipe" when they mean "rollback".. One point I have seen people make is that the exploit has been around since day one and so a rollback of a few days wouldn't make sense, but if this exploit only exploded recently and was previously confined to just a few people, then why not roll back a few days, and then deal with the originators individually?
OH MY GAWD! ^__^ I've been saying this at least four times in different ways to at least reach into some ppl's thickness-__-.
The crazy thing ppl don't get, is that a FULL WIPE is never nor was it EVER in the cards for pwe as a company to do...
What CAN be done is a 24 hour rollback or SOMETHING to stem the explosion....THE RECENT explosion. Which for now would suffice. Return the game state to 24 hrs ago...where everyone's greatest concern was "balance" and "nerf this and that!"
THAT was TOLERABLE.
I'm logged out of game...hoping that when i wake tomorrow...server will be down and in the process of rollback.
THIS is the only solution.
THIS is what we should be pushing for, cos it CAN be done.....
The more u ask for a WIPE...the more, the devs or whoever are gonna just "yikes^^ don't look at the ridiculous thread, ppl must be CRAZY to think we gonna wipe and refund stuff..."
Lets make them say "Hmmmm, yo bob, check it out, they in favour of a rollback. We roll it back, this sheet goes away, minimal BS, good temp fix, we walk away being the heroes that listened, WIN WIN BRAH! ^__^ waddaya say?"
PITY,REGRET, AND MERCY are just EXCUSES for the strong not to kill the weak!
BTW you guys know this exploit is not new right? This has been going on for weeks. People have been exploiting this for a very long time and it just now went public. People have stock piled huge amounts of AD and Zen and done it secretly without letting you guys know. The game is already messed. If they do not wipe the game is doomed because the smarter ones who knew about this earlier have already stock piled their AD and we just found out about it yesterday.
My suggestion would be to make a list people who actually posted the auctions that generated the ad. Then roll back a few days before it really got out of control and then ban those accounts. This would be a minor inconvenience as far as player level and items sold etc. but it would rectify most of the economic impact and punish those responsible. It isn't a 100% solution but it has the least repercussions against innocent bystanders.
Comments
There is money involved for some of us, and not necessarily small sums. Plainly put, I need to know whether they do a rollback or come up with an equivalent solution before PayPal's deadline for disputes is up. I am happy with my HotN pack, no regrets. But I also spent hundreds on Zen for ADs, and PWE will need to decide whether they want to keep the money for those Zen. If the exploiters, and those who benefit from them (e.g. all those folks who get free cats), get to keep their stuff, I think it is reasonable that I will want to keep my dollars.
I understand that this is no easy situation, and that it is a lose-lose scenario for them where no matter what they do, someone will be unhappy. I'm looking forward to the follow-up information that they will post when they have looked into situation. I certainly see no reason for drama or for anyone going off the deep end.
Even thought it sounds "logical", i am pretty sure it's wrong. And i'll tell you why.
Perfect World, (and any company with a game), doesn't need exploiters to do such a thing. Just think for a moment, all this mess and all this that is happening right now, it's gonna hurt the company because players will leave.
Instead, if they wanted to "cheat" their game they could easily ask a GM to send a specific amount of AD and/or Zen to a person (their person ofc) with as simple command like /give @handler 10000 AD, a simple command that exists in 99,99% mmo games. And they would had avoid all that, no whining, no players leaving, no one would ever know anything.
So i am pretty sure that they don't want exploiters/cheaters because it does NOT benefit them, it hurts them.
Now you might ask how can we know if they haven't cheated with a GM already?
Well we don't, but we don't know this answer to any MMO at all, ether being F2P or B2P. Giving items can happen to all games, and we just trust that they wont do it, or at least that it wont affect anyone.
Stop assuming the entire world has the same options.
I agree, and I think some people might be saying "wipe" when they mean "rollback".. One point I have seen people make is that the exploit has been around since day one and so a rollback of a few days wouldn't make sense, but if this exploit only exploded recently and was previously confined to just a few people, then why not roll back a few days, and then deal with the originators individually?
I can understand being upset about potentially losing money, but it's the same with any game. Turbine dealt with a similar issue with the TP. I'm sure WoW has had issues too. It's going to happen regardless of the game. I've lost count how much money I've spent with Turbine and DDO on various things. (Mostly companions/pets and armor kits, I like things pretty.)
Maybe I just look at things differently than others. I've only spent about 60-70 on Zen and I'm, honestly, not worried about it. It's money I'd have blown elsewhere.
No problem, I have two spare Mailsmiths. I'll sell them to you for 75,000,000,000 AD each, which is just a bit below the current going rate.
Paypal doesn't do chargebacks on purchase of virtual items (such as electronic downloads).
If they wipe, I am out
Downloading programs? Seems legit.
What do they gain from that? Oh that's right it's probably a virus or a program that steals data *legally* by stating it in the terms and conditions (which nobody reads).
I hope you will delete every single piece of ADs people created with the exploit. Even if it's been given to friends, traded, turned into items like cats and so on. If you don't then your game isn't worth playing it anymore.
Yeah, I don't see them doing anything other than ban some accounts that have already laundered the currencies.
I guess the choice is wipe and lose many, many F2P who may not want to put in all of the work again
or
Don't wipe and lose far less people but people who spend money.
I figure they will see losing a few people who have spent money and dealing with that thing is the lesser of two evils.
Which is a shame because a wipe with zen refund would solve the issue.
I can't see myself doing a lot of PvP if enough people are max geared through exploits and I'm just setting myself up with the basics - so this kind of cuts off a whole side of the game.
I hope they see the long term picture and restart.
But I doubt it.
If they were to roll back to a few days ago before this thing exploded, then go on from there, you would lose a few days of work but not all of it. If there is a huge problem each month and they roll back a few days to fix it, then you're making progress maybe 25 out of 30 days per month. That sucks, i'll give you that, it's no fun to rollback at any time but it's not all of your work down the drain.
They did a rollback on FW about 2 or 3 months ago
They do. I deal with them on a daily basis.
Exactly. I understand it has been around for a long time, but it didn't have nearly the impact it is having now. It's funny to me that people are making a big deal out of it now, when they didn't even know it was going on in the background - so why exactly would we need a full wipe? While I don't agree with it, I think it's dumb to use that as an excuse to support a full wipe rather than just a rollback. Let the fact that it has been happening since day 1 go, as it clearly did not have a noticeable effect until today.
OH MY GAWD! ^__^ I've been saying this at least four times in different ways to at least reach into some ppl's thickness-__-.
The crazy thing ppl don't get, is that a FULL WIPE is never nor was it EVER in the cards for pwe as a company to do...
What CAN be done is a 24 hour rollback or SOMETHING to stem the explosion....THE RECENT explosion. Which for now would suffice. Return the game state to 24 hrs ago...where everyone's greatest concern was "balance" and "nerf this and that!"
THAT was TOLERABLE.
I'm logged out of game...hoping that when i wake tomorrow...server will be down and in the process of rollback.
THIS is the only solution.
THIS is what we should be pushing for, cos it CAN be done.....
The more u ask for a WIPE...the more, the devs or whoever are gonna just "yikes^^ don't look at the ridiculous thread, ppl must be CRAZY to think we gonna wipe and refund stuff..."
Lets make them say "Hmmmm, yo bob, check it out, they in favour of a rollback. We roll it back, this sheet goes away, minimal BS, good temp fix, we walk away being the heroes that listened, WIN WIN BRAH! ^__^ waddaya say?"
if there are rollbacks or a wipe, we'll most likely be bringing a class action to your front door, and finding a new company to game with