You are trying to tell us, that it should be challenging for a "Warrior" to kill a "doctor"??? Clerics deal way too high damage for them to NOT have the constant debuff on them. You would like an unkillable self healing ranged dps class, but i doubt it is ever going to happen. All i can foresee for said class in the future is nerf after nerf, which is reasonable since they deal a bit too high of a dmg, considered what they are really supposed to be useful at (healing, nothing else). Kids these days..., since when should healers be challenging to kill? Healers should heal and should not be tanks or damage dealers or even worse, both. Compare plate armor to cloth/leather/chain and you will realize, who should have a challenge in killing WHO.
Let me cut through that ignorance really quickly for you; stop crying that clerics are unkillable. I have no qualms with the debuff in PvP - none. That being said, your post didn't really contribute anything to the thread other than prototypical entry-level crybaby bull-****, and that's something I'm swiftly losing my patience for in these forums. Firstly, it's an insult to insinuate that clerics are meant for nothing other than healing - if you've any idea as to the D&D 4the., I'm sure you'd come across more than a few who excel in quite the opposite. Even eliminating warpriests and angelic avengers and the like, DC is STILL meant to have some formidable damage-dealing capabilities. And you know, let's think of it this way; Let's say that what you've ascertained in ignorance is not far from the truth - that they're meant as healers as nothing more. If that's true, then it makes NO SENSE as to why Righteousness even exists. Your premises are flawed. Thanks for trying.
And just to put things in perspective for you, Clerics are not "Doctors." Clerics are warriors empowered by Gods, in possession of divine magics to build or destroy, and with the ability to turn or control undead. Yes sir, control. They're warriors in chainmail that heal and kill with Godfire; something I feel your pediatric surgeon probably isn't quite capable of. Maybe you should reconsider before referring to any class as a warrior without understanding exactly what they're capable of.
Let me cut through that ignorance really quickly for you; stop crying that clerics are unkillable. I have no qualms with the debuff in PvP - none. That being said, your post didn't really contribute anything to the thread other than prototypical entry-level crybaby bull-****, and that's something I'm swiftly losing my patience for in these forums. Firstly, it's an insult to insinuate that clerics are meant for nothing other than healing - if you've any idea as to the D&D 4the., I'm sure you'd come across more than a few who excel in quite the opposite. Even eliminating warpriests and angelic avengers and the like, DC is STILL meant to have some formidable damage-dealing capabilities. And you know, let's think of it this way; Let's say that what you've ascertained in ignorance is not far from the truth - that they're meant as healers as nothing more. If that's true, then it makes NO SENSE as to why Righteousness even exists. Your premises are flawed. Thanks for trying.
And just to put things in perspective for you, Clerics are not "Doctors." Clerics are warriors empowered by Gods, in possession of divine magics to build or destroy, and with the ability to turn or control undead. Yes sir, control. They're warriors in chainmail that heal and kill with Godfire; something I feel your pediatric surgeon probably isn't quite capable of. Maybe you should reconsider before referring to any class as a warrior without understanding exactly what they're capable of.
Can I somehow like a post? Cause I like this one.
I wish my "doctor" looked this cool.
And nobody cares if the debuff is in PvP.
We want it removed from PvE.
I am sure there are those who would argue it should be removed in pvp too but I really don't care about that, keep it there if you must.
In pve groups it should be removed, and even solo I feel it should be toned down. It was a misguided addition in the first place and I fear they will just refuse to see the error in it, no matter how much we might want them to.
I guess I can see what the intention was by doing this - things like preventing a self healing character being totally top of the pile, stopping them soloing everything as easily, creating a dependency between the 'healer' and the rest of a party.
But from a newish player whose not that good at playing? Good luck with that Cryptic. It's not *fun*. It's not *fun* to die all the time. It's not *fun* to get all the adds aggro that no one can pull off you. It's not *fun* to have to drink pots all the time and be broke because of it.
Interesting to see how this pans out in the long run.
~*~ Sparkles! ~*~
The MMO may change but the inventory tetris stays the same.
You are trying to tell us, that it should be challenging for a "Warrior" to kill a "doctor"??? Clerics deal way too high damage for them to NOT have the constant debuff on them. You would like an unkillable self healing ranged dps class, but i doubt it is ever going to happen. All i can foresee for said class in the future is nerf after nerf, which is reasonable since they deal a bit too high of a dmg, considered what they are really supposed to be useful at (healing, nothing else). Kids these days..., since when should healers be challenging to kill? Healers should heal and should not be tanks or damage dealers or even worse, both. Compare plate armor to cloth/leather/chain and you will realize, who should have a challenge in killing WHO.
you srs?
play a rogue or CW in PvP and you'll see real dps. clerics are nothing compared to those. plus, the cleric has three CCs: a root, a lift and a stun, each on a different ability and the only one that is respectable is the root from chains of blazing light... but then, you need to actually USE it.
a cleric can't slot full dps skills and hope to win vs a CW/rogue. they'll just get bursted/cc'd down and killed before they can blink (most of the time).
cleric damage is mediocre, at best. you're just one of those babies that thinks healers should just heal others and cower in the corner otherwise.
also: i was soloing earlier (57) and my sunburst healed me for 490-something... six seconds later, invigorated healing healed me for 503. a 2.5% health heal healed me for more than my own self heal. i was missing at least 300 extra health that i was supposed to get if righteousness didn't exist.
remove this ****ty debuff entirely and give GWF/rogues a feat that lets them apply a healing debuff on one of their skills.
It's called economy balancing.
And being rich simply because you're a DC.
Nobody wants to listen though and the whining continues.
Are you serious? Being "rich"? In what, gold? Yeah, because gold has so much use in this game... Aside from that, are you completely ignoring what every Cleric in the thread is saying about the ridiculous number of pots they need to consume to live since they can't heal themselves properly? In the end we probably spend MORE on potions than non-healing classes.
Lets not forget that in epic content potions themselves aren't usually enough and we instead have to use health stones. Bought with real money....
Now, tell me you genius economist, you... does a Cleric having a billion gold really, truly mean anything in this game? You can't convert it to anything worthwhile and there isn't exactly a lot to buy with gold, so I am curious how this "economy balancing" you speak of comes into play.
Righteousness sucks. PWE/Cryptic, you actually out there?
0
noobiieeMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 29Arc User
edited May 2013
I actually sent a tweet to @NeverwinterGame asking about this 40% debuff meanwhile the maintenance that is when they answer people's questions. No answer for me, of course, if they don't even want to look at this post. Probably none of them have had a cleric main and tried out dungeons skirmishes and everything.
As i mentioned in my last post if they don't give an answer to this, because they can perfectly give it, i'm only assuming that they only want money because of health stones and they are yaoming style on the cleric, why bother with us they get their money. And i'm glad with devs's job because they r doing good for this open beta, but about this, is just dissapointing, do i have to spam them on tweets and fb posts to them see if they ever try to give an answer?
A good solution for the potion problem would be the option for casters to be able to wear scale/plate, sacrificing some of their dps/speed, while gaining a huge amount of hp and defense. I mean if you decided to use regular cleric equips, you'd be suffering the -40% debuff. In plate you would gain a big % of hp, your movement would slow down, maybe casting speed a bit, too and you would have no -40% heal debuff, but a debuff on your attack skills instead.
Just my 77 cents on this issue.
LOL, ar ya nats brah?
So let's keep that nonsensical debuff while ADDING another debuff to our power just to gain HP.
Why not make control wizards 40% less resistant to control? why not make rogues take 40% more damage from flanking? why not make GF deal 40% less damage by default? Why not make GWF... forget GWF =/
I bet i would read lots of raging on the forums if we saw those getting added, i wonder why :rolleyes:
I really wonder about that debuff, ppl whining about us having too much gold? We kill stuff SLOWER for the healing if we bother to slot healing, and even if we only slot offensively we kill slowly at higher lvl content, meaning we gain money at a slower rate then a TR or CW would.
At lower levels you don't actually notice the debuff as much (1-20), at mid levels it becomes an outright pain to live with, once astral shield we can finally keep ourselves alive but stuff takes ages to kill still(solo ofc).
In group fights the debuff wouldn't even be such a big issue if the aggro mechanics weren't broken, or if the boss mechanics wouldn't include spawning adds(EVERY BOSS SPAWNS ADDS). This debuff is only highlithing bigger problems of the game, other class issues.
To the ppl who mentioned GWF nerf: THEY ALREADY ARE... try leveling one from 1-10, most pots chugged from all the available classes (I ran them all once at least), least amount of dmg done.. stuff takes even longer to kill then with a Devoted Cleric and that's just sad. GWF starts to get better once they hit a certain level, but by the time they hit that level most would have given up on them.
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moseslkhMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
I'm always appalled at why is a debuff called "Righteousness".
Clerics feel like a matyr more than anything..
I guess you did not quite understand. Not 2 debuffs. Read more carefully before posting, tyvm.
(no self heal debuff in plate + more hp, but with a reduction on damage caused by attack spells)
peace.
What you don't get, dear friend is that our damage is at best mediocre. Solo questing is already a pain until you get Astral Shield because it takes almost twice the ammount of time it takes a Rogue/Wizard/whatever to kill any of the stronger mobs and you cant heal yourself for <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> to mitigate the damage you take.
Your suggestion of converting our already mediocre attack skills into stick-pocking itchies is preposterous. By that same logic GF should deal close to zero damage, and i very well know it doesen't.
I'm going to chime in about soloing @60 with 11k+ GS. It's easy as ****. Debuff or not, there's not a solo mob that I don't laugh in it's face as I destroy it with Daunting Light. Soloing includes any solo dungeon and/or any mob in an outdoor zone.
Maybe this is somehow what they based Righteousness on? To reiterate: I have absolutely no problem with this debuff while solo, or while PvPing (although I feel it's a ***** move in PvP, because you could just give classes a heal debuff to apply, so it's based off of skill). I just want to be on par healing myself as well as I heal my allies in PvE dungeons. If I didn't feel so strongly about it, I wouldn't have made/keep bumping this thread.
No, not enough.
You forgot to mention 55 levels of questing. That's where the trouble is. You kill slower than other classes and you can't heal yourself well enough.
Other classes can just roll their face over the keyboard to breeze through quests. Clerics can't say the same.
I wouldn't mind the reduction in self healing, if I wasn't being forced to tank at the same time.. It can only be one or the other, in my opinion, not both.
Sister Vanity knows if you've been naughty or nice...and heals accordingly.
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laktouMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 3Arc User
edited May 2013
As a fellow Cleric suffering while doing T2 dungeons when I must solo heal them, let me shamelessly bump this thread.
Of course I would like to see this "wonderful feature" disappear but if we must live with it, negate completely this debuff when we are in a group of 5, thank you, so stacking Clerics and Astral Shields isn't needed/mandatory anymore to enjoy the actual end game.
A good solution for the potion problem would be the option for casters to be able to wear scale/plate, sacrificing some of their dps/speed, while gaining a huge amount of hp and defense. I mean if you decided to use regular cleric equips, you'd be suffering the -40% debuff. In plate you would gain a big % of hp, your movement would slow down, maybe casting speed a bit, too and you would have no -40% heal debuff, but a debuff on your attack skills instead.
i dont believe we had any buffs with regard to this nerf. there wasnt a give and take. give us more damage and i'll take the reduced self heal. i'd rather not have the debuff, personally.
Open the Launcher. Click Options near the top. Check Disable on-demand patching. This will download another couple of gigs.
chaddiwickerMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
Created a control wizard alt to my devoted cleric main. The control wizard is now 26th level. With a cleric companion, I use less potions than when I was a devoted cleric. I didn't have a cleric companion for my main because, well... that's stupid. At this point, it puts clerics at a disadvantage for gold rather than balancing with the other classes.
Comments
Let me cut through that ignorance really quickly for you; stop crying that clerics are unkillable. I have no qualms with the debuff in PvP - none. That being said, your post didn't really contribute anything to the thread other than prototypical entry-level crybaby bull-****, and that's something I'm swiftly losing my patience for in these forums. Firstly, it's an insult to insinuate that clerics are meant for nothing other than healing - if you've any idea as to the D&D 4the., I'm sure you'd come across more than a few who excel in quite the opposite. Even eliminating warpriests and angelic avengers and the like, DC is STILL meant to have some formidable damage-dealing capabilities. And you know, let's think of it this way; Let's say that what you've ascertained in ignorance is not far from the truth - that they're meant as healers as nothing more. If that's true, then it makes NO SENSE as to why Righteousness even exists. Your premises are flawed. Thanks for trying.
And just to put things in perspective for you, Clerics are not "Doctors." Clerics are warriors empowered by Gods, in possession of divine magics to build or destroy, and with the ability to turn or control undead. Yes sir, control. They're warriors in chainmail that heal and kill with Godfire; something I feel your pediatric surgeon probably isn't quite capable of. Maybe you should reconsider before referring to any class as a warrior without understanding exactly what they're capable of.
Can I somehow like a post? Cause I like this one.
I wish my "doctor" looked this cool.
And nobody cares if the debuff is in PvP.
We want it removed from PvE.
In pve groups it should be removed, and even solo I feel it should be toned down. It was a misguided addition in the first place and I fear they will just refuse to see the error in it, no matter how much we might want them to.
But from a newish player whose not that good at playing? Good luck with that Cryptic. It's not *fun*. It's not *fun* to die all the time. It's not *fun* to get all the adds aggro that no one can pull off you. It's not *fun* to have to drink pots all the time and be broke because of it.
Interesting to see how this pans out in the long run.
The MMO may change but the inventory tetris stays the same.
you srs?
play a rogue or CW in PvP and you'll see real dps. clerics are nothing compared to those. plus, the cleric has three CCs: a root, a lift and a stun, each on a different ability and the only one that is respectable is the root from chains of blazing light... but then, you need to actually USE it.
a cleric can't slot full dps skills and hope to win vs a CW/rogue. they'll just get bursted/cc'd down and killed before they can blink (most of the time).
cleric damage is mediocre, at best. you're just one of those babies that thinks healers should just heal others and cower in the corner otherwise.
also: i was soloing earlier (57) and my sunburst healed me for 490-something... six seconds later, invigorated healing healed me for 503. a 2.5% health heal healed me for more than my own self heal. i was missing at least 300 extra health that i was supposed to get if righteousness didn't exist.
remove this ****ty debuff entirely and give GWF/rogues a feat that lets them apply a healing debuff on one of their skills.
And being rich simply because you're a DC.
Nobody wants to listen though and the whining continues.
Are you serious? Being "rich"? In what, gold? Yeah, because gold has so much use in this game... Aside from that, are you completely ignoring what every Cleric in the thread is saying about the ridiculous number of pots they need to consume to live since they can't heal themselves properly? In the end we probably spend MORE on potions than non-healing classes.
Lets not forget that in epic content potions themselves aren't usually enough and we instead have to use health stones. Bought with real money....
Now, tell me you genius economist, you... does a Cleric having a billion gold really, truly mean anything in this game? You can't convert it to anything worthwhile and there isn't exactly a lot to buy with gold, so I am curious how this "economy balancing" you speak of comes into play.
Righteousness sucks. PWE/Cryptic, you actually out there?
As i mentioned in my last post if they don't give an answer to this, because they can perfectly give it, i'm only assuming that they only want money because of health stones and they are yaoming style on the cleric, why bother with us they get their money. And i'm glad with devs's job because they r doing good for this open beta, but about this, is just dissapointing, do i have to spam them on tweets and fb posts to them see if they ever try to give an answer?
This is the most ignorant post I have read on these forums yet. If you don't have anything usefull to add, just don't post anything.
unkillable. BS. try playing one.
LOL, ar ya nats brah?
So let's keep that nonsensical debuff while ADDING another debuff to our power just to gain HP.
Why not make control wizards 40% less resistant to control? why not make rogues take 40% more damage from flanking? why not make GF deal 40% less damage by default? Why not make GWF... forget GWF =/
I bet i would read lots of raging on the forums if we saw those getting added, i wonder why :rolleyes:
I want this class in NW.
At lower levels you don't actually notice the debuff as much (1-20), at mid levels it becomes an outright pain to live with, once astral shield we can finally keep ourselves alive but stuff takes ages to kill still(solo ofc).
In group fights the debuff wouldn't even be such a big issue if the aggro mechanics weren't broken, or if the boss mechanics wouldn't include spawning adds(EVERY BOSS SPAWNS ADDS). This debuff is only highlithing bigger problems of the game, other class issues.
To the ppl who mentioned GWF nerf: THEY ALREADY ARE... try leveling one from 1-10, most pots chugged from all the available classes (I ran them all once at least), least amount of dmg done.. stuff takes even longer to kill then with a Devoted Cleric and that's just sad. GWF starts to get better once they hit a certain level, but by the time they hit that level most would have given up on them.
Clerics feel like a matyr more than anything..
What you don't get, dear friend is that our damage is at best mediocre. Solo questing is already a pain until you get Astral Shield because it takes almost twice the ammount of time it takes a Rogue/Wizard/whatever to kill any of the stronger mobs and you cant heal yourself for <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> to mitigate the damage you take.
Your suggestion of converting our already mediocre attack skills into stick-pocking itchies is preposterous. By that same logic GF should deal close to zero damage, and i very well know it doesen't.
I want this class in NW.
Maybe this is somehow what they based Righteousness on? To reiterate: I have absolutely no problem with this debuff while solo, or while PvPing (although I feel it's a ***** move in PvP, because you could just give classes a heal debuff to apply, so it's based off of skill). I just want to be on par healing myself as well as I heal my allies in PvE dungeons. If I didn't feel so strongly about it, I wouldn't have made/keep bumping this thread.
nuff' said
I want this class in NW.
Nuff said?
You forgot to mention 55 levels of questing. That's where the trouble is. You kill slower than other classes and you can't heal yourself well enough.
Other classes can just roll their face over the keyboard to breeze through quests. Clerics can't say the same.
I want this class in NW.
Of course I would like to see this "wonderful feature" disappear but if we must live with it, negate completely this debuff when we are in a group of 5, thank you, so stacking Clerics and Astral Shields isn't needed/mandatory anymore to enjoy the actual end game.
That's idiotic. Clerics wear Chainmail.
Ability Scores || All Attribute Roll Combinations || My Cleric Stream \o/