It's obvious they did it because they wanted this to be a "team game" and make "leader" class depend on his team and they wanted to avoid clerics face-tanking everything and we know right now 2 DCs can faceroll everything, at the first "tier" of the game with 1,5x healing (0,5 DC self-heal,1 other cleric), imagine what would happen in later tiers when have even more stats and DCs without Righteousness, groups will be 1 DC-4DPS.
the two cleric schtick is only happening because:
- astral shield stacks
- cleric aggro is ridiculous, atm, for some reason
- GFs are worthless as a tank
they're going to nerf AS stacking. i'm waiting for it to happen. everyone knows it'll happen. i just hope all they do is nerf AS stacking the damage reduction with other AS' and don't outright ruin the skill.
I'm beginning to think more and more, the absolute best solution (sans just removing the debuff ) would be for it to be a group debuff, that gets reduced by 25% per member you have in your group.
I don't think anyone but clerics get how frustrating it is to have to be the ONE person to use the most pots/stones, when your whole **** job is to heal in the first place.
This debuff was introduced before any one was 60, and I feel it's is way overbalanced for epic dungeons. I know I've used more health stones than anyone else I static group with, even though I throw out insane heals.
Because clerics make too much useful, useful gold! I have 76 after I put another 10 in the guild bank and gave 15 to my GF buddy, who's practically broke.
nvmbanelingsMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
p.s. remove righteousness
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banshisMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 4Arc User
edited May 2013
Bump and I totally agree. Dungeons suck if you don't have a good tank or you have a bad control wizard. On boss fights since all the do is spawn countless number of adds and everything loves to go onto me I get obliterated unless there is a control wizard to help keep them off of me. Even after that ranged adds are still on me and I am running for my life trying to get a spell that isn't instant out just to help heal the party members standing in stuff for them to get mad at me when they get knocked out because I am running for my life desperately trying to keep healing myself and getting nowhere so I die. Remove it or reduce. Also fix threat.
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noobiieeMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 29Arc User
edited May 2013
I have been a day on my CW where i got in a dungeon, the cleric was purely dps and didn't heal anything so we had to pot all time.
At the end everyone said, good cleric.
I go with my cleric, i heall all my party risk my life even die, at the end they all say im the worst cleric, i kept them alive the whole time, is feel such useless person when you are healing the rest and sacrifice yourself meanwhile they let you die, but if you dont help them you are a good cleric, such good reasoning, Y SO MANY HATERS
I'd like to see this debuff go... but if devs really think it has to be there then i second to idea of reducing it by 10% for each party member. This way not only devs got the solo potion nerf they want and clerics have chance to not die horribly in dungeons but also it would encourage people to create parties for questing. Not a perfect solution but definitely better then permanent 40% healing debuff for healer (sounds stupid but that's what it is).
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cwiyk13Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 5Arc User
edited May 2013
I would really like a developer who plays a Devoted Cleric "as their main" to come here and explain why they think Righteousness should not be removed, at least when in a full group. If they really believe they have good reasons to keep this mechanic in place when a cleric is in a full group, then I would sincerely like to hear them. If, on the other hand, they remain silent on this issue, then their silence lends credit to the theories stating that this mechanic is kept in place to increase the sell of health-stones and thereby increase their profits.
They won't.
11 pages and not a single comment from PWE.
Why?
2 reasons.
1) They are scared of the backlash because they have some ridiculous reasoning for it.
2) They are scared period.
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noobiieeMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 29Arc User
edited May 2013
They just won't admit that this debuff is not needed, if they say something against taking it off all the cleric players will get over PWE, so they remain silent thinking on it.
Nah im just lying they wont even look at it
They probably just think if they ignore the issue it will go away. The only comment I have heard of from them was basically saying that the debuff was staying so get used to it.
I have been a day on my CW where i got in a dungeon, the cleric was purely dps and didn't heal anything so we had to pot all time.
At the end everyone said, good cleric.
I go with my cleric, i heall all my party risk my life even die, at the end they all say im the worst cleric, i kept them alive the whole time, is feel such useless person when you are healing the rest and sacrifice yourself meanwhile they let you die, but if you dont help them you are a good cleric, such good reasoning, Y SO MANY HATERS
Modern gaming, dps monkeys everywhere. So much so that healing and tanking is slowly disappearing from mmorpgs, as the dps don't want to wait in queues and don't want to have to wait on pulls they'd rather rush around zerging things and seeing big numbers.
merrybelleMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 5Arc User
edited May 2013
I've been skipping dungeons and skirmishes on my cleric. I'm not running around potting like mad, it isn't fun. Righteousness is stupid, so is aggro. I see less and less clerics the higher level I get. It would be nice if I could heal myself properly. I don't think it's bad to be able to heal yourself for solo play either. So what if I use less potions and have more gold? I'm a healer, let me heal myself. That's why I rolled cleric, and I didn't notice the debuff until I was already invested in my character. You should at least put a big red warning label on the cleric class at character creation stating that cleric has a big fat reduction to self healing, and also add the part about being an aggro magnet. I wouldn't have played a cleric had I known that.
Give players an appliable heal debuff so PvP takes skill to kill a cleric instead of "lol I can't heal myself, guess I die."
Have you ever had to fight 2 clerics standing on one point it PvP? If you take that debuff away it would be the same thing as that. Now, I am not saying that the debuff doesn't suck, but we need a different way to figure out how to heal in PvE
The current best way to heal in PvE is to stack defense/Damage reduction, since neither of those get debuffed by Righteousness.
But to counter the point you made... if they gave, say, rogues a -50% heal debuff as an encounter skill, and they used it skillfully, it would be the same difference. The major thing here is that they'd have to skillfully apply a debuff, not just know that a cleric can't heal himself because Cryptic doesn't want him to heal himself.
Yeah I've wasted 150+ Health stones in dungeons. I'm not doing them anymore. Screw it. Pots bought with gold is basically useless. Everytime I use it my health is right back down and I'm dead. There were even times when I didn't even get healed with my Health stones. I was thoroughly pissed when that happens. The buff seriously needs to go.
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ayorrMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 4Arc User
edited May 2013
Bump. Between this and aggro, solo healing an epic dungeon past Tower/Crag means casting Astral Shield and trying to run around the outside of the circle while every mob on screen destroys me. I can keep everyone else alive fine, but unless there's another Cleric in my group I am nearly guaranteed a death (multiple deaths usually) every time I enter an epic dungeon.
Getting a response from PWE about this is a must for all of us posting here. I'm looking forward to this thread amounting to hundreds of pages in a short amount of time if they continue to ignore the issue.
Ayora Wildwood
Level 60
Devoted Cleric
<Exodus>
Dragon Server
The debuff is a disgrace to the class, but it is not the reason dungeons are such a mess for pickup groups. When a group does not handle adds properly, a cleric should unslot any power with heals. But that means a cleric is a wasted slot, as many beneficial effects are tied to heals.
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noobiieeMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 29Arc User
edited May 2013
The only reason i see this debuff on us is to "active health stone economy" so the clerics are the ones actually the ones that are ALWAYS needing to get zen for this stuff. Since other characters don't need them because of us.
All goes back to greed and money and more money, hey everyone wants money but what's best way to get money? Create a free game that looks so nice but they put a "but" on it, clerics have a debuff that they will never remove because they will always get money off it.
Such dissapointing thing... I would rather have bought this game for 200$ and don't have this debuff
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cwiyk13Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 5Arc User
edited May 2013
Another day passed, another page of posts added to this thread, and still no word from Cryptic.
Comments
the two cleric schtick is only happening because:
- astral shield stacks
- cleric aggro is ridiculous, atm, for some reason
- GFs are worthless as a tank
they're going to nerf AS stacking. i'm waiting for it to happen. everyone knows it'll happen. i just hope all they do is nerf AS stacking the damage reduction with other AS' and don't outright ruin the skill.
p.s. remove righteousness.
I don't think anyone but clerics get how frustrating it is to have to be the ONE person to use the most pots/stones, when your whole **** job is to heal in the first place.
This debuff was introduced before any one was 60, and I feel it's is way overbalanced for epic dungeons. I know I've used more health stones than anyone else I static group with, even though I throw out insane heals.
Beholder
What Class Are You?
Makes sense.
What Class Are You?
At the end everyone said, good cleric.
I go with my cleric, i heall all my party risk my life even die, at the end they all say im the worst cleric, i kept them alive the whole time, is feel such useless person when you are healing the rest and sacrifice yourself meanwhile they let you die, but if you dont help them you are a good cleric, such good reasoning, Y SO MANY HATERS
11 pages and not a single comment from PWE.
Why?
2 reasons.
1) They are scared of the backlash because they have some ridiculous reasoning for it.
2) They are scared period.
Nah im just lying they wont even look at it
/10characters
In a full group of 5, you have a 10% reduction.
Liberated Borg -Captain USS Solstice
Member of Starfleet Borg Task Force - Tactical Unit
Modern gaming, dps monkeys everywhere. So much so that healing and tanking is slowly disappearing from mmorpgs, as the dps don't want to wait in queues and don't want to have to wait on pulls they'd rather rush around zerging things and seeing big numbers.
It's just the shape of things to come.
But to counter the point you made... if they gave, say, rogues a -50% heal debuff as an encounter skill, and they used it skillfully, it would be the same difference. The major thing here is that they'd have to skillfully apply a debuff, not just know that a cleric can't heal himself because Cryptic doesn't want him to heal himself.
Getting a response from PWE about this is a must for all of us posting here. I'm looking forward to this thread amounting to hundreds of pages in a short amount of time if they continue to ignore the issue.
Level 60
Devoted Cleric
<Exodus>
Dragon Server
All goes back to greed and money and more money, hey everyone wants money but what's best way to get money? Create a free game that looks so nice but they put a "but" on it, clerics have a debuff that they will never remove because they will always get money off it.
Such dissapointing thing... I would rather have bought this game for 200$ and don't have this debuff