Ok could not read the whole post let me just say I know this is an mmo but is to be a D&D mmo and with keeping with the rules clerics are not just healing machines. And in 4th everyone in the group can heal a bit themselves which in turns takes all the pressure off the priest spamming heal which in a real D&D game does not happen unless you are facing something beyond what you are supposed to, in which case you get what you deserve I have played this game solo no healer and can tell you if you rush and take on stuff above your level or group quest solo you're going to die even with a priest. I for one like this it is the way it should be not like the eq1 -2 starwars or every other idiotic mmo out there. Here the priest truly has to think about what they're doing aside from just standing and spamming heals, now I have to say the agro maybe off but I say as a dm if any creature with a high enough intelligents should know kill the healer first. I can see though that animals and lower creature should not do this as their intelligence is lower, in conclusion I see that it is functioning as intended so whatever.
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lollieMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Ok could not read the whole post let me just say I know this is an mmo but is to be a D&D mmo and with keeping with the rules clerics are not just healing machines. And in 4th everyone in the group can heal a bit themselves which in turns takes all the pressure off the priest spamming heal which in a real D&D game does not happen unless you are facing something beyond what you are supposed to, in which case you get what you deserve I have played this game solo no healer and can tell you if you rush and take on stuff above your level or group quest solo you're going to die even with a priest. I for one like this it is the way it should be not like the eq1 -2 starwars or every other idiotic mmo out there. Here the priest truly has to think about what they're doing aside from just standing and spamming heals, now I have to say the agro maybe off but I say as a dm if any creature with a high enough intelligents should know kill the healer first. I can see though that animals and lower creature should not do this as their intelligence is lower, in conclusion I see that it is functioning as intended so whatever.
As a GF what annoys me the most is taunting the mob out of the healer and the healer then cast anything... and the mobs pass on me like i dont exist... its frustrating, because i try everything in my hands to take all the agro, but the game doesnt allowme to.
As a GF what annoys me the most is taunting the mob out of the healer and the healer then cast anything... and the mobs pass on me like i dont exist... its frustrating, because i try everything in my hands to take all the agro, but the game doesnt allowme to.
preaching to the quire, as a cleric who has done 50 or so random skirmishes and dungeons as dailies and more, the last people I blame are the tanks and dps, they need to fix the game mechanics relative to aggro/taunt balance
some agro is to be expected, clearly, but on the flip side, you expect your taunting and dps to pull mobs back as a tank, so it is on perfectworld really imho, not the players themselves
Ok could not read the whole post let me just say I know this is an mmo but is to be a D&D mmo and with keeping with the rules clerics are not just healing machines. And in 4th everyone in the group can heal a bit themselves which in turns takes all the pressure off the priest spamming heal which in a real D&D game does not happen unless you are facing something beyond what you are supposed to, in which case you get what you deserve I have played this game solo no healer and can tell you if you rush and take on stuff above your level or group quest solo you're going to die even with a priest. I for one like this it is the way it should be not like the eq1 -2 starwars or every other idiotic mmo out there. Here the priest truly has to think about what they're doing aside from just standing and spamming heals, now I have to say the agro maybe off but I say as a dm if any creature with a high enough intelligents should know kill the healer first. I can see though that animals and lower creature should not do this as their intelligence is lower, in conclusion I see that it is functioning as intended so whatever.
eq1-2 swg or every other idiotic mmo out there huh...seems like you have no idea what you speak of.....but feel free to continue blithering like an idiot...the forums are full of them.
Today we fight the GAULS......monstrous and HAIRY beyond reason.
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bioshrikeMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,729Arc User
edited May 2013
What they should do is have a few different AI scripts depending upon the intelligence of the enemy. For instance, a zombie wouldn't know the difference between a healer and a fighter, and should simply go after whoever is nearest to it. An animal should go after whoever *looks* the most threatening - the big guy in all sorts of armor with the big sharp thing. The humanoid enemies should focus on what types of opponents would be the most threatening to them - goblins might think "ooh shiny" and go after the guys in plate armor, while Drow might consider casters or rogues more of a threat. Similarly, certain animals might go after the least armored-looking characters if their drive is to *eat* the tastiest looking morsel.
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
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dixa1Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 4Arc User
edited May 2013
clerics in eq1 had to be careful about healing early, but they had more tools than just healing. they actually had more proper D&D cleric spells because eq launch is based almost in it's entirety on a MUD that is built on forgotten realms 2.0 rules.
clerics in eq1 had to be careful about healing early, but they had more tools than just healing. they actually had more proper D&D cleric spells because eq launch is based almost in it's entirety on a MUD that is built on forgotten realms 2.0 rules.
however, a tank could actually tank.
Agreed......clerics in this game, thus far are criplped and shadows of their trueselves.
Yeah there was always the fear of drawing too much early aggro before the tank could develop aggro so then reactives were good. Here they rely too much on reactives. there is no real Direct heals and the repertoire of Clerics is abyssmal at best.
I would kill for some magic missiles...ok for a cleric maybe a bless spell? Where the heck are the basic buff spells? protmagic, Bless, pro elementals types etc?
,
Today we fight the GAULS......monstrous and HAIRY beyond reason.
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dixa1Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 4Arc User
edited May 2013
magic missiles wouldnt be appropriate for a cleric. harm however...
I agree Clerics in this game use reactives ( a term from EQ2 perhaps other MMo's too). Target the tank and when they are hit they are healed or when they do damge they heal.......I sorely miss the ability to directly target the tank or TARGET through the mob. I have a mid lvl cleric 40 but refuse to try and master the art of trying to heal when you cannot, by virtue of this game, even target someone in need of a heal.
There is so much racing around and ping ponging of mobs and targets I am sure even aggro does not work properly as I scarcely see tanks being able to hold aggro against pure dps. That is no slight against the players who are noteworthy but rather a slight agains the way this game implements aggro.
I mean, for INSERT GENERIC DEITIIES sake, The fast pace of this game is fine with me but the way they do heals and control mobs IS NOT.
Am I a fan of TAB ...darn skippy.........A little wisdom also explains why the end content is a zerg fest. IMO they cannot implement real strategies for end content because the basics of the game cannot support real strategies as those we are accustomed to in games like eq1-2 SWG, which are games I come from. INSTEAD we see peopl erunning around trying to stay alive and people not assisting the dps and rather off on their own doing their own thing........and even if we did assist each other and were good team players there is no way to target the same mobs as the targetting in this game is HAMSTER.
Sry, but you are playing it wrong. Try thinking outside the box without having a target heal. I'm not having much trouble at all healing past lvl 40. Granted many moves in our tree are useless but there's at least one good build right now.
personally I'm having a blast healing right now in both pvp and pve. Its a welcome change from the whack a mole healing of picking the lowest health bar and clicking my big heal. I get to be more engaged in the fight and have many abilities to help mitigate damage instead of just healing. I think some people have an issue getting used to the mind set of being part of the fight and not a peripheral character just spamming heals as well as working with the divine mechanic.
I think threat management is the issue that hits me the most. It is too hard for a tank to control adds reasonably. I'm hoping they work on the GF to give them a bit more control of that type of thing.
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asakochanMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 3Arc User
edited May 2013
later today i've done my daily dungeon on spellplague as usual pugging because even if i am in a guild i never get a group on my guild to run with. So i just quueued up hoping to get a decent party. So yeah, on the beginning of the dungeon people was a bit unorganised and chaotic and i had hard time healing them and stay alive because every single mob was on me.
But when they figured that is way more easy to get healed staying on the biiiig blue circle i was casting all the time on the floor for them and was not even need to run around for mobs because they were around the circle anyway because of me....well the things changed in a matter of second.
So we finished smoothly the whole dungeon and the last boss arrived next. As soon as we entered, 2 of the people died before i had time to heal them because of the mechanics that dungeon has. Probably everyone was at his first run and not aware that the boss other than spawning big adds and hitting with its tenticles, was making suction and emanating a huge wave of poison at the same time, so yeah, 2 people died almost instantly. I was lucky enough to survive to the first wave of the adds and keep alive the other 2 party members, so we left 3 people to manage that boss.
Took us like 10-15 mins to kill it but we did it and nobody else died after that first wave. The coordination was awesome. When the boss was hitting i was casting astral shield and everyone was running inside because soon after that the adds was spawning and they were straight on me, so the other 2 ppl was leaving the boss to kill the adds and only after that was all of us focusing on boss again. I used like 10 pots or so, not even that many as usual in a full party run. When the boss died i got praised by all team members for the job done, even if i know the tank and CW done their job great as well otherwise i could not have done mine that good either.
After that run i went to do a skirmish and i died 2 times with a full party of lvl 55 me being 53, only because they was not focusing on adds leaving them all on me and telling me i sux because i can't stay alive. ...LOL!
So yeah, the healer's job depends in BIG part of how the team is made and how they manage to defend the cleric.
And during football matches there are coca cola and pizza hut advertisements all over the place, does that mean we'll be watching pizza slices kicking the ball? Is every Mercedes car an awesome S class limousine?
Regarding spells, are most of D&D games based on 4th ed? This is the only one I know. About magic missile, did you even seen Control Wizard class yet? Make lvl1, its starting spell. Rest, check 4ed spells. Pretty accurate if you ask me.
(example)Dawn of War 2 have games workshop logo all over it, yet its RTS game with small squads instead of turn based game with huge armies. Do warhammer players rage about it and QQ that its not turn based with dice rolls? No.
You know why? Because they did most basic research on the game. Same can be said about countless of other games set in some IP.
Seriously, do some basic research sometimes or you will be one of these people who run to the grocery store, rush to apple place and expect iphones, being surprised about seeing real apples.
In reverse order here....I wouldnt be fool enough to buy anything tainted by Steve Jobs. The last "apple" I owned was a Mac when it had a 8 inch screen and 256 shades of grey. It was propietary overpriced pieces of **** then, and hasnt changed in 20 years.
Yeah...I dont know what DnD is. I've probably played more versions of DnD than you've had women and met Dave and Gary both before they passed on. Why I recall my very first dungeon master and how we defeated the goblin king and everybody in the group pitched in 5 bucks each to get a chance to open the treasure chest for our loots...good times.
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morgolashMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 11Arc User
edited May 2013
First, I seem to have double posted as a thread as well, the < sign over Faeruns U freaks the whole thing out
Wait wait wait.
I've been healing in every single game, or any kind of support class is my preferred class. (Druid wow , prob the most fun ever) And yes, just like tanks(Which I would've preferred secondly if melee + RSA lag wasn't so bad) we are horribly under appreciated, and we're always the first to get blamed, but that's fine, because as a friend once said "I can queue up, go to the store, take a shower, and a huge dump, an there will still be time to fap before I get to join" So suck it, really toxic groups don't deserve healing(cept you tanks, feel your pain), there's plenty of DPS in the Faerun sea, but usually(read: Hopefully) runs go smooth, no one is toxic, people are friendly and helpful and laugh off a few mistakes. I should mention I play with a constant lag of 300-500ms
Whether it be Mobas, FPS, MMOS doesn't matter, on top of that I've been playing a cleric in 4e DnD. But a Melee cleric, with emphasis on Healing Strike(Bash an enemies face in, someone gets healed, huzzah!) and the biggest disappointment was having to go caster cleric instead, I truly miss my warhammer. Leveled with a Rogue friend from 25+ onwards, soloing as a FAITHFUL Cleric is horrible.
Now besides all that, when I first read through the cleric feats, I was a bit confused, how will I specc this, what kind of healing am I supposed to focus on, and that's when I realized:
We're not only healers.
The best way to heal, is to not let your party members get hurt that badly in the first place. That's what Hallowed Ground, Astral Shield, Divine Armor, Foresight, Sacred Flame, Divine Sun Burst, Cleanse Feat, Divine Advantage Feat[/U], Etc. is for, Damage reduction, + defense boost, keeping the enemy busy or at bay.
If you're a Faithful Paragon Healer, and you're on par with lowest DPS, they should feel ashamed. Righteous and Virtuous are NOT Dedicated healers(Think Shadow priest Disc priest etc.) If you can't heal enough and you're one of these, eh, good luck. NOTE: For them to DPS as much as they need means swapping out Healing Word encounter for a more damaging one.(I'm embarrassed to admit I only realized it counts as an encounter, thus can be exchanged, at 60)
This rant is more for Faithful Paragon
And as stated, POTIONS POTIONS POTIONS. If you're not using them, you deserve to die.
Avoid the red areas. That's a given, I'm just clarifying. (Yes, you dps)
My screen is a blur of green numbers usually, but a few things first.
Healing word: As you may have noticed(or not apparently) recasting on the same target extends the duration, so the max amount of charges you're supposed to have is 2 at all times. Divine Healing word feels a bit underwhelming, but it gets the job done if you have the extra pips for it (Faithful can have 4 pips before an engage, it's handy) Hot your tank up 3 times on an engage and you're set. Complaining about the charges is like pissing in the win. I was scared at first that I will run out of charges,(think proper DnD) and then what?!?!? Oh they recharge? Yessss. The problem is the hot is just not benefiting from Power enough, and it doesn't have a chance to crit on ticks, which, in itself, would make it far more impactful
Sacred Flame: This is rather important In conjunction with Repurpose Soul(AOE Heal on crit) and
Deepstone Blessing(+10% heals on Temp hitpoints) need to be constantly spammed, this applies to an Ally's own temp HP too, and it's effectively +10% healing on EVERYTHING, when you're not busy using encounter spells, reapplying Astral Seal(Power of Life for this and SF) kiting aggrod mobs(SF Aggro is negligible) being revived after dying to said mobs, being dead after dps doesn't want to revive you This is not the tanks job and I have had so many tanks run over to me mid fight with mobs pounding away at them because of DPS just plain not giving a shizz. I Heart you Guardians
This I don't understand where you're getting from. We have at least three:
- Astral shield cast in divinity mode is easily the single best healing spell in the game and a must have. It not only shields the Group but also regenerates crazy amounts of life.
- Sun Burst is one of my personal favorites. Huge range, damages enemies and heals all Allies caught by it, and on top of that it generates a crazy amount of action points.
- Forgemaster's Flame is actually a Group heal as all close to the mob it is cast on gets the heal
Agreed My preferred ones are Astral Shield and Bastion of Health, and no, we do not have an instant single heal, we have an AOE one, +++ Divine Bastion of Health wastes pips, unless you need that instant heal NOW, then that's fine, otherwise, short cast, spam it when they need healing or start casting when you see a
AOE inc. Sun burst is....OK, I loved it on lower levels, but the threat generation on it is a bit ridiculous currently. Forgemasters Flame is also a favourite, and it ticks for A LOT, especially useful in a party with only Guardians, GWF or Rogues.
Divine Astral Shield=Win Hallowed Ground=Win, these 2 spells together make for an enormous reduction in % damage taken and +defenses. Or Divine Armor for that extra oomph to keep groups alive that drop dangerously while you heal them back to acceptable health pools.
Repurpose soul. As mentioned, it gives a 15% Heal on damage done on crit in an AOE around the target, yes it might not sound like much, but with the constant spamming of SF this also keeps 1) Linked Spirit active(+5% of your stats to all targets healed) in my case, that's almost +300 power and recovery(Rising Hope is a great way to get +15% Power and Recovery ALL THE TIME) 2) Divine Advantage, especially useful on big packs. 3) Restoration Mastery, Sadly I don't have points in this, a respecc would be nice, but alas, 150k per respecc hurts. point being +5% Defense stat(Go guardians) 3) Foresight(Same issue as 3) 4) Cleanse
The light has failed these, to some degree:
Now to mention Moon Touched, as great as it is, I prefer my points somewhere else. Invigorated Healing feels like such a waste for 5 feat points on something that only kicks in 8-20 seconds, depending on cds and frequency, for only 2.5% Max Health. Really underwhelming. See Miracle Healer Set, 5% Max HP on an encounter Heal? Now that's awesome. Enduring Relief/Soothing Light, 5% extra Healing for 3 seconds after an encounter in divine mode?
Underwhelming. And the lazorz just drains Divine power waaaaaay too fast, considering its heal also feels a bit weak, unless you have Desperate Renewal, and your Tank is taking a lot of damage, or someone else who is near death, but again, that drain on divine power...pips are better spent on Divine Healing Word so you can get back to other spells ASAP. Again, this only applies to Faithful, with mentioned Virtuous and Righteous feats being in reach. Those 2 paragon paths are more focused on BUFFS and debuffs than they are healing.(And Far more DPS)
Guardian of Faith
Loved this spell on lower levels, but now it's barely useful, the heal, even at rank 3, is just so miniscule, which is sad considering the "By Tymora's nipples we're in trouble!!!" situation it wants to be used for when an Elite enemy is giving your group 9 hells of troubles, and it gets faaar out damaged by Hammer of Fate(More knockback!!!) Also, it doesn't even knockdown some of the bigger enemies, even thought a CW can easily Force Freeze Choke them.
You ma have missed a thread I started last week that thanked random Clerics for Walk by healing my sorry GWF butt. Your Healing IS appreciated even if you party may forget to say so.
I get off my horse every time I see someone fighting mobs, pop them a healing word or two an continue on my merry way, admittably I have died a few times because of the hot pulling aggro from his next engage ^^
The other thing is that aside from the horde that is after us and our non-lifesavers heals which usually require us to hit someone in order to heal ourselves, there is an other thing we have as a class-passive that gives us -40% healing on ourselves. So keeping ourselves alive is getting kinda tricky and usually only the divine AS that may saves us for a while without help. Of course all does make our job to heal the rest of the team a whole lot harder.
And lastly, aggro, my main expense is Injury kits. I have to agree the aggro is a bit wonky at the moment, extremely easy to pick and very hard to drop. I always get first place for going down the most, if I don't die in a dungeon at least once I feel disappointed. The aggro kicks in so fast, especially with a misplaced Healing Word and fresh group of mobs, but in general, especially since doing Epics, the guardians really tank better, and they manage to keep most aggro to themselves in extended encounters. HOWEVER. DPS NEEDS TO KEEP ANY STRAYS TANK DOESN'T HAVE OFF HEALER This is where the main problem lies, with stuck up, piece of troll HAMSTER DPS who think their only job is to dish out damage, and that's it, thanks to that -40% passive it's bad enough healing yourself back to full health running around trying to shake off these mobs, and I've been in a group with 3 CW who just went "NOPE! Ain't freezing nuthing!" and then ate some dog HAMSTER they found lying around or drooled all over themselves I DON'T EVEN know what HAMSTER/toxic DPS do while they're face smashing their keyboard, where said rogue friend(pugs rarely live up to this) know "WELL DA-YUM! Dem Healur got him sum aggro AGEN! Better go over thar and shake em off)" and LITERALLY always ends up being #1 Paingiver, to date #1 at least. Every. Single. Dungeon.
BUT I DIGRESS. I rarely, if ever post, and some people just tend to flip a switch sometimes with their inane "Healing suxxorz" Comments
I agree with the OP, I play healer in most mmos SWTOR DCUO WoW WAR LOTR D&D CoH CoV to name a few as I find it fun but not much fun in healing in this game imo. This is by far the worst healing mechanics i have ever played, no direct heal just rubbish HoT other than the divine which is finished in a matter of seconds. You take a lot of the agro so have to run around kite healing haha.
I feel bad when i see peoples health dropping before me and i cannot help them as i have no charges left and even if there was a charge left if there taking damage it won't help much haha.
Does it get any better at higher levels? as I am only level 27 atm and don't really play any other class.
I'm healing at lvl 60 perfectly, I think you or your group is doing it wrong OP, this is not WoW, SWTOR or whatever other game you healed in.
Mechanics are different and you have to adapt to them,
I'm healing at lvl 60 perfectly, I think you or your group is doing it wrong OP, this is not WoW, SWTOR or whatever other game you healed in.
Mechanics are different and you have to adapt to them,
Wow, so very insight, next, I assume, you will tell us the oceans have water in them, if you can't swim, don't get in????
Healer's don't need to be told this. We picked that up by level 10, in addition to the -40% healing we get.
The problem is the double entendre of healing nerf to ourselves combined with the overzealous aggro we generate, AND the other classes in the group uninterested in dealing with neccessary adds that often kill the clerics.
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lollieMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Healer's don't need to be told this. We picked that up by level 10, in addition to the -40% healing we get.
The problem is the double entendre of healing nerf to ourselves combined with the overzealous aggro we generate, AND the other classes in the group uninterested in dealing with neccessary adds that often kill the clerics.
Like it's not an issue. He seemed to be aware of GWF issues, but no mention of cleric aggro.
oh the upside at least a mod came on and acknowledged this thread, for whatever that is worth, maybe they will actually take it seriously, cause right now past 45 as a cleric, I pretty much solo, cause running in circles in dungeons from aggro instead of contributing sucks
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sephereMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
Kinda agree with the op, I guess I'm too used to clerics in games where they can heal half or all of their life with one spell.
I don't really mind the low attack power/big heals in those games,
because of the heals, in those games you feel like a durable class, even if you can't do as much damage,
and that made them fun for me.
But this game seems like the opposite, (they even nerfed cleric self-healing, seems rather senseless),
medium/high damage and low heals, it just doesn't make sense to me;
it seems more like a light mage or something instead, somehow,
not that that's a bad thing, it's just not my preference, when I want to play a healer in games.
Also the aggro issue does not sound or look like fun,
at all.
Those are basically the only reasons I don't want to play one, in this game, anyway.
I'm healing at lvl 60 perfectly, I think you or your group is doing it wrong OP, this is not WoW, SWTOR or whatever other game you healed in.
Mechanics are different and you have to adapt to them,
Yeah, the mechanics ARE different.
The Disc Priest sits in their bubble aura that has 100% uptime while tanking all the mobs and the prot war twiddles his thumbs.
Screw that, let's get 2 Disc Priests.
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kyotheman9000Member, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
im enjoying cleric, aggro can be a pain, u have party doesn't have clue what they are doing of course u going be turned off the class, i got used to how cleric works i love it, its truly a battle healer, once u get that through your head u get understand, u shouldn't be over healing and try to attack as well problem older mmo's healing was boring u just sat there just auto heal people, this game makes u combat with your party, buff them, move around try to add your party more battles are very lively yet once ever died as cleric, lvling as one is super easy never die even with 40% decrease to healing once u learn to use divinity clerics rock what i notice alot of clerics don't know how to switch bring out buffs/heals and attacks because they got different effects in two modes.
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glowyrmzMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
There isn't really a healing role in this game. A Cleric is more about maintenance and mitigation, there are no clutch low health healing saves. It's just about counteracting some of the damage coming in steadily, not healing big chunks at a time.
It's just different, I can see how one wouldn't like it coming from other MMO's. I have been a hardcore, bleeding edge, raider for 14 years now and I have healed for much of that. So seeing how the Cleric works was a a little jarring at first but I knew what I was getting into and I knew this game was doing things differently.
So while you can't save a whole group that's at 10% HP, you can make it harder for them to get that low in the first place with steady, consistent heals that act as mitigation. It makes a difference still, and you get to DPS more in this game as well, which is fun for a change.
Wow, so very insight, next, I assume, you will tell us the oceans have water in them, if you can't swim, don't get in????
Healer's don't need to be told this. We picked that up by level 10, in addition to the -40% healing we get.
The problem is the double entendre of healing nerf to ourselves combined with the overzealous aggro we generate, AND the other classes in the group uninterested in dealing with neccessary adds that often kill the clerics.
But... that's good advice.
Cleric aggro isn't a problem in and of itself in most cases, the fact that your party is ignorant/unwilling/unable to come and CC/kill the mobs that are trying to turn you into divine mush makes it a problem, and a rather large one at that. Granted, I'm only level 46 at the moment, but I've never managed to kill that mad dragon at 30-34. I gear recovery > power = crit > defense, which probably didn't help at all, but the difficulty jump from prior content is a bit high. I'm sure guild groups can work it out eventually, but in PuGs ? Two wipes and people leave, amount of time spent in instance 40 mins, amount of time on final boss 20 mins. Like, seriously ? Is persistance too much to ask for ?
Can't wait until Astral Shield. In the meantime I'm content with dragging my crowd of groupies to the nearest ledge and knocking them off with divinity burst, because do we really need another +### health belt and a rank 2 runestone of no-one-ever-uses them ?
Also, like every MMO ever, this game's more fun with friends, so grab one, have them play CW (bribe them with cookies or some such) and teach them to love Singularity. It'll help a lot.
One more thing I want to add: everyone's singing Forgemaster Flame's praises, but the hitboxes of some of the bosses in this game make it too unreliable for my taste. Yes, the healing's pretty good and the slow helps if one giant angry mob's trying to cleave your feet in half, but cast it on a dragon and the only two things getting that delicious green goodness will be two companions. Maybe the tank too, if he's lucky. Or if the group has one >.>
But it's fun ! And that counts a lot. Also I can actually kill lots people in PvP without it taking three hours each time. It won't be everyone's cup of tea, naturally, and that's okay. If we didn't have -40% healing to ourselves no one would kill me. Ever. Youtube would be filled with 6 hour "DC solo kill ALL THE THINGS" videos, and that would get boring fast.
Get a group that understands the concept of teamwork and hope for the best, because this game has lots of potential. It's what they'll do with it that counts. (Oh and slightly lower respec costs pretty please ?)
I have a general question for all the healers here. I am currently a lvl 32 cleric, I was doing the instance, Lair of the Mad Dragon.
Has any other healer just literally said **** it for that instance? I am at the part for final fight that I just consider it broken. Too many adds, even with people focusing on them, and if you wipe you get greeted by any of the surviving adds that just killed you...IE - we got wrecked by a Giant Balor Demon and for round 2 it was there to greet us again along with the Dragon boss.
How is a healer in this game supposed to dodge all that HAMSTER and keep the party alive, I do not see it. We dont have enough heals to do it properly. If I am missing something here ppl plz let me know.
I have a general question for all the healers here. I am currently a lvl 32 cleric, I was doing the instance, Lair of the Mad Dragon.
Has any other healer just literally said **** it for that instance? I am at the part for final fight that I just consider it broken. Too many adds, even with people focusing on them, and if you wipe you get greeted by any of the surviving adds that just killed you...IE - we got wrecked by a Giant Balor Demon and for round 2 it was there to greet us again along with the Dragon boss.
How is a healer in this game supposed to dodge all that HAMSTER and keep the party alive, I do not see it. We dont have enough heals to do it properly. If I am missing something here ppl plz let me know.
no problems at all, clearly if u are having hard time your pug team is just bad, tank and dps are bad period
never had issue with healing plus people got relies that game makes u use potions the healer can't always keep u alive going be moments for rogues or mages they basically get one shot easily if they aren't careful why have stealth, dodge as much as possible
if u the healer are covered in adds dps or tank should be helping u out if not they are BAD players don't have clue what they are doing, problem with pug groups i haven't had to much problems most groups i had were good or have understanding sadly had bad tanks can't keep aggro poor rogues or mages have keep running around trying kill stuff fast because tanks sucks.
Comments
preaching to the quire, as a cleric who has done 50 or so random skirmishes and dungeons as dailies and more, the last people I blame are the tanks and dps, they need to fix the game mechanics relative to aggro/taunt balance
some agro is to be expected, clearly, but on the flip side, you expect your taunting and dps to pull mobs back as a tank, so it is on perfectworld really imho, not the players themselves
eq1-2 swg or every other idiotic mmo out there huh...seems like you have no idea what you speak of.....but feel free to continue blithering like an idiot...the forums are full of them.
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however, a tank could actually tank.
Agreed......clerics in this game, thus far are criplped and shadows of their trueselves.
Yeah there was always the fear of drawing too much early aggro before the tank could develop aggro so then reactives were good. Here they rely too much on reactives. there is no real Direct heals and the repertoire of Clerics is abyssmal at best.
I would kill for some magic missiles...ok for a cleric maybe a bless spell? Where the heck are the basic buff spells? protmagic, Bless, pro elementals types etc?
,
oh god...pain....in...sides......too......awesome......
>.<
i do know this thanks for setting me straight in your mind:P
Sry, but you are playing it wrong. Try thinking outside the box without having a target heal. I'm not having much trouble at all healing past lvl 40. Granted many moves in our tree are useless but there's at least one good build right now.
I think threat management is the issue that hits me the most. It is too hard for a tank to control adds reasonably. I'm hoping they work on the GF to give them a bit more control of that type of thing.
But when they figured that is way more easy to get healed staying on the biiiig blue circle i was casting all the time on the floor for them and was not even need to run around for mobs because they were around the circle anyway because of me....well the things changed in a matter of second.
So we finished smoothly the whole dungeon and the last boss arrived next. As soon as we entered, 2 of the people died before i had time to heal them because of the mechanics that dungeon has. Probably everyone was at his first run and not aware that the boss other than spawning big adds and hitting with its tenticles, was making suction and emanating a huge wave of poison at the same time, so yeah, 2 people died almost instantly. I was lucky enough to survive to the first wave of the adds and keep alive the other 2 party members, so we left 3 people to manage that boss.
Took us like 10-15 mins to kill it but we did it and nobody else died after that first wave. The coordination was awesome. When the boss was hitting i was casting astral shield and everyone was running inside because soon after that the adds was spawning and they were straight on me, so the other 2 ppl was leaving the boss to kill the adds and only after that was all of us focusing on boss again. I used like 10 pots or so, not even that many as usual in a full party run. When the boss died i got praised by all team members for the job done, even if i know the tank and CW done their job great as well otherwise i could not have done mine that good either.
After that run i went to do a skirmish and i died 2 times with a full party of lvl 55 me being 53, only because they was not focusing on adds leaving them all on me and telling me i sux because i can't stay alive. ...LOL!
So yeah, the healer's job depends in BIG part of how the team is made and how they manage to defend the cleric.
My 2(000) cents
In reverse order here....I wouldnt be fool enough to buy anything tainted by Steve Jobs. The last "apple" I owned was a Mac when it had a 8 inch screen and 256 shades of grey. It was propietary overpriced pieces of **** then, and hasnt changed in 20 years.
Yeah...I dont know what DnD is. I've probably played more versions of DnD than you've had women and met Dave and Gary both before they passed on. Why I recall my very first dungeon master and how we defeated the goblin king and everybody in the group pitched in 5 bucks each to get a chance to open the treasure chest for our loots...good times.
Wait wait wait.
I've been healing in every single game, or any kind of support class is my preferred class. (Druid wow
Whether it be Mobas, FPS, MMOS doesn't matter, on top of that I've been playing a cleric in 4e DnD. But a Melee cleric, with emphasis on Healing Strike(Bash an enemies face in, someone gets healed, huzzah!) and the biggest disappointment was having to go caster cleric instead, I truly miss my warhammer. Leveled with a Rogue friend from 25+ onwards, soloing as a FAITHFUL Cleric is horrible.
Now besides all that, when I first read through the cleric feats, I was a bit confused, how will I specc this, what kind of healing am I supposed to focus on, and that's when I realized:
We're not only healers.
The best way to heal, is to not let your party members get hurt that badly in the first place. That's what Hallowed Ground, Astral Shield, Divine Armor, Foresight, Sacred Flame, Divine Sun Burst, Cleanse Feat, Divine Advantage Feat[/U], Etc. is for, Damage reduction, + defense boost, keeping the enemy busy or at bay.
If you're a Faithful Paragon Healer, and you're on par with lowest DPS, they should feel ashamed. Righteous and Virtuous are NOT Dedicated healers(Think Shadow priest Disc priest etc.) If you can't heal enough and you're one of these, eh, good luck. NOTE: For them to DPS as much as they need means swapping out Healing Word encounter for a more damaging one.(I'm embarrassed to admit I only realized it counts as an encounter, thus can be exchanged, at 60)
This rant is more for Faithful Paragon
And as stated, POTIONS POTIONS POTIONS. If you're not using them, you deserve to die.
Avoid the red areas. That's a given, I'm just clarifying. (Yes, you dps)
My screen is a blur of green numbers usually, but a few things first.
Healing word: As you may have noticed(or not apparently) recasting on the same target extends the duration, so the max amount of charges you're supposed to have is 2 at all times. Divine Healing word feels a bit underwhelming, but it gets the job done if you have the extra pips for it (Faithful can have 4 pips before an engage, it's handy) Hot your tank up 3 times on an engage and you're set. Complaining about the charges is like pissing in the win. I was scared at first that I will run out of charges,(think proper DnD) and then what?!?!? Oh they recharge? Yessss. The problem is the hot is just not benefiting from Power enough, and it doesn't have a chance to crit on ticks, which, in itself, would make it far more impactful
Sacred Flame: This is rather important In conjunction with Repurpose Soul(AOE Heal on crit) and
Deepstone Blessing(+10% heals on Temp hitpoints) need to be constantly spammed, this applies to an Ally's own temp HP too, and it's effectively +10% healing on EVERYTHING, when you're not busy using encounter spells, reapplying Astral Seal(Power of Life for this and SF) kiting aggrod mobs(SF Aggro is negligible) being revived after dying to said mobs, being dead after dps doesn't want to revive you This is not the tanks job and I have had so many tanks run over to me mid fight with mobs pounding away at them because of DPS just plain not giving a shizz. I Heart you Guardians
Agreed My preferred ones are Astral Shield and Bastion of Health, and no, we do not have an instant single heal, we have an AOE one, +++ Divine Bastion of Health wastes pips, unless you need that instant heal NOW, then that's fine, otherwise, short cast, spam it when they need healing or start casting when you see a
AOE inc. Sun burst is....OK, I loved it on lower levels, but the threat generation on it is a bit ridiculous currently. Forgemasters Flame is also a favourite, and it ticks for A LOT, especially useful in a party with only Guardians, GWF or Rogues.
Divine Astral Shield=Win Hallowed Ground=Win, these 2 spells together make for an enormous reduction in % damage taken and +defenses. Or Divine Armor for that extra oomph to keep groups alive that drop dangerously while you heal them back to acceptable health pools.
Repurpose soul. As mentioned, it gives a 15% Heal on damage done on crit in an AOE around the target, yes it might not sound like much, but with the constant spamming of SF this also keeps 1) Linked Spirit active(+5% of your stats to all targets healed) in my case, that's almost +300 power and recovery(Rising Hope is a great way to get +15% Power and Recovery ALL THE TIME) 2) Divine Advantage, especially useful on big packs. 3) Restoration Mastery, Sadly I don't have points in this, a respecc would be nice, but alas, 150k per respecc hurts. point being +5% Defense stat(Go guardians) 3) Foresight(Same issue as 3) 4) Cleanse
The light has failed these, to some degree:
Now to mention Moon Touched, as great as it is, I prefer my points somewhere else. Invigorated Healing feels like such a waste for 5 feat points on something that only kicks in 8-20 seconds, depending on cds and frequency, for only 2.5% Max Health. Really underwhelming. See Miracle Healer Set, 5% Max HP on an encounter Heal? Now that's awesome. Enduring Relief/Soothing Light, 5% extra Healing for 3 seconds after an encounter in divine mode?
Underwhelming. And the lazorz just drains Divine power waaaaaay too fast, considering its heal also feels a bit weak, unless you have Desperate Renewal, and your Tank is taking a lot of damage, or someone else who is near death, but again, that drain on divine power...pips are better spent on Divine Healing Word so you can get back to other spells ASAP. Again, this only applies to Faithful, with mentioned Virtuous and Righteous feats being in reach. Those 2 paragon paths are more focused on BUFFS and debuffs than they are healing.(And Far more DPS)
Guardian of Faith
Loved this spell on lower levels, but now it's barely useful, the heal, even at rank 3, is just so miniscule, which is sad considering the "By Tymora's nipples we're in trouble!!!" situation it wants to be used for when an Elite enemy is giving your group 9 hells of troubles, and it gets faaar out damaged by Hammer of Fate(More knockback!!!) Also, it doesn't even knockdown some of the bigger enemies, even thought a CW can easily Force Freeze Choke them.
I get off my horse every time I see someone fighting mobs, pop them a healing word or two an continue on my merry way, admittably I have died a few times because of the hot pulling aggro from his next engage ^^
And lastly, aggro, my main expense is Injury kits. I have to agree the aggro is a bit wonky at the moment, extremely easy to pick and very hard to drop. I always get first place for going down the most, if I don't die in a dungeon at least once I feel disappointed. The aggro kicks in so fast, especially with a misplaced Healing Word and fresh group of mobs, but in general, especially since doing Epics, the guardians really tank better, and they manage to keep most aggro to themselves in extended encounters. HOWEVER. DPS NEEDS TO KEEP ANY STRAYS TANK DOESN'T HAVE OFF HEALER This is where the main problem lies, with stuck up, piece of troll HAMSTER DPS who think their only job is to dish out damage, and that's it, thanks to that -40% passive it's bad enough healing yourself back to full health running around trying to shake off these mobs, and I've been in a group with 3 CW who just went "NOPE! Ain't freezing nuthing!" and then ate some dog HAMSTER they found lying around or drooled all over themselves I DON'T EVEN know what HAMSTER/toxic DPS do while they're face smashing their keyboard, where said rogue friend(pugs rarely live up to this) know "WELL DA-YUM! Dem Healur got him sum aggro AGEN! Better go over thar and shake em off)" and LITERALLY always ends up being #1 Paingiver, to date #1 at least. Every. Single. Dungeon.
BUT I DIGRESS. I rarely, if ever post, and some people just tend to flip a switch sometimes with their inane "Healing suxxorz" Comments
I feel bad when i see peoples health dropping before me and i cannot help them as i have no charges left and even if there was a charge left if there taking damage it won't help much haha.
Does it get any better at higher levels? as I am only level 27 atm and don't really play any other class.
Pretty well sums things up. Nice info on Faithful too.
Mechanics are different and you have to adapt to them,
Wow, so very insight, next, I assume, you will tell us the oceans have water in them, if you can't swim, don't get in????
Healer's don't need to be told this. We picked that up by level 10, in addition to the -40% healing we get.
The problem is the double entendre of healing nerf to ourselves combined with the overzealous aggro we generate, AND the other classes in the group uninterested in dealing with neccessary adds that often kill the clerics.
This^
And I noticed in the latest interview with Lead Producer Andy Velasquez, when asked about the issues they are aware of in the game - he didn't mention cleric aggro at all.
Like it's not an issue. He seemed to be aware of GWF issues, but no mention of cleric aggro.
oh the upside at least a mod came on and acknowledged this thread, for whatever that is worth, maybe they will actually take it seriously, cause right now past 45 as a cleric, I pretty much solo, cause running in circles in dungeons from aggro instead of contributing sucks
I don't really mind the low attack power/big heals in those games,
because of the heals, in those games you feel like a durable class, even if you can't do as much damage,
and that made them fun for me.
But this game seems like the opposite, (they even nerfed cleric self-healing, seems rather senseless),
medium/high damage and low heals, it just doesn't make sense to me;
it seems more like a light mage or something instead, somehow,
not that that's a bad thing, it's just not my preference, when I want to play a healer in games.
Also the aggro issue does not sound or look like fun,
at all.
Those are basically the only reasons I don't want to play one, in this game, anyway.
Yeah, the mechanics ARE different.
The Disc Priest sits in their bubble aura that has 100% uptime while tanking all the mobs and the prot war twiddles his thumbs.
Screw that, let's get 2 Disc Priests.
Because it is different.
There isn't really a healing role in this game. A Cleric is more about maintenance and mitigation, there are no clutch low health healing saves. It's just about counteracting some of the damage coming in steadily, not healing big chunks at a time.
It's just different, I can see how one wouldn't like it coming from other MMO's. I have been a hardcore, bleeding edge, raider for 14 years now and I have healed for much of that. So seeing how the Cleric works was a a little jarring at first but I knew what I was getting into and I knew this game was doing things differently.
So while you can't save a whole group that's at 10% HP, you can make it harder for them to get that low in the first place with steady, consistent heals that act as mitigation. It makes a difference still, and you get to DPS more in this game as well, which is fun for a change.
But... that's good advice.
Cleric aggro isn't a problem in and of itself in most cases, the fact that your party is ignorant/unwilling/unable to come and CC/kill the mobs that are trying to turn you into divine mush makes it a problem, and a rather large one at that. Granted, I'm only level 46 at the moment, but I've never managed to kill that mad dragon at 30-34. I gear recovery > power = crit > defense, which probably didn't help at all, but the difficulty jump from prior content is a bit high. I'm sure guild groups can work it out eventually, but in PuGs ? Two wipes and people leave, amount of time spent in instance 40 mins, amount of time on final boss 20 mins. Like, seriously ? Is persistance too much to ask for ?
Can't wait until Astral Shield. In the meantime I'm content with dragging my crowd of groupies to the nearest ledge and knocking them off with divinity burst, because do we really need another +### health belt and a rank 2 runestone of no-one-ever-uses them ?
Also, like every MMO ever, this game's more fun with friends, so grab one, have them play CW (bribe them with cookies or some such) and teach them to love Singularity. It'll help a lot.
One more thing I want to add: everyone's singing Forgemaster Flame's praises, but the hitboxes of some of the bosses in this game make it too unreliable for my taste. Yes, the healing's pretty good and the slow helps if one giant angry mob's trying to cleave your feet in half, but cast it on a dragon and the only two things getting that delicious green goodness will be two companions. Maybe the tank too, if he's lucky. Or if the group has one >.>
But it's fun ! And that counts a lot. Also I can actually kill lots people in PvP without it taking three hours each time. It won't be everyone's cup of tea, naturally, and that's okay. If we didn't have -40% healing to ourselves no one would kill me. Ever. Youtube would be filled with 6 hour "DC solo kill ALL THE THINGS" videos, and that would get boring fast.
Get a group that understands the concept of teamwork and hope for the best, because this game has lots of potential. It's what they'll do with it that counts. (Oh and slightly lower respec costs pretty please ?)
Has any other healer just literally said **** it for that instance? I am at the part for final fight that I just consider it broken. Too many adds, even with people focusing on them, and if you wipe you get greeted by any of the surviving adds that just killed you...IE - we got wrecked by a Giant Balor Demon and for round 2 it was there to greet us again along with the Dragon boss.
How is a healer in this game supposed to dodge all that HAMSTER and keep the party alive, I do not see it. We dont have enough heals to do it properly. If I am missing something here ppl plz let me know.
For the sake of trying not to look like it copied outdated mechanics that were fixed years ago in the games it copied from.
no problems at all, clearly if u are having hard time your pug team is just bad, tank and dps are bad period
never had issue with healing plus people got relies that game makes u use potions the healer can't always keep u alive going be moments for rogues or mages they basically get one shot easily if they aren't careful why have stealth, dodge as much as possible
if u the healer are covered in adds dps or tank should be helping u out if not they are BAD players don't have clue what they are doing, problem with pug groups i haven't had to much problems most groups i had were good or have understanding sadly had bad tanks can't keep aggro poor rogues or mages have keep running around trying kill stuff fast because tanks sucks.