evilsprinklesMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 16Arc User
edited May 2013
I quit my level thirty-eight cleric a week ago in favour of a rogue. I always loved playing a cleric, but in this instance it doesn't work. I also don't like the very limited power slots, I am hoping they will allow more in time.
1. There are NO direct heals in this game without having to use up Divinity. Most of the so-called "heal" abilities in this game either a) require to you to attack an enemy (Astral Seal, Sacred Flame) or b) require Divinity mode to function as a heal (Forgemasters flame). Even the closest ability to a direct heal (Healing Word), only applies a slow Regen effect on party members. Sure I could switch to Divinity mode for a direct heal, but when there's four other party members all critically low on health, and only 3 divinity charges to use, healing quickly becomes a nightmare. Seriously, who the hell thought this was good game design?
That's how the cleric is supposed to be played, divinity management is important. This isn't any other game where you just sit back and heal and do nothing else. The playstyle forces you to be proactive and contribute in more ways than pressing your heal hotkey over and over again.
2. On the subject of Healing Word, why is it that I only have a max of 3 charges to use, and there's a 1 second pause between each charge, and when I run out of charges I have wait roughly TEN SECONDS before I can cast it again? IN EVERY OTHER MMO I'VE PLAYED, healers always have at least one spammable DIRECT HEAL ability with no cooldown whatsoever. Why does this game have to be different?
This skill sucks and you shouldn't be using it anyways.
3. The complete lack of groupwide heals in this game. I don't consider Guardian Angel to be a proper groupwide heal since it heals for so little that it's virtually useless in epic dungeons. I guess you might be able to say Astral Shield is a group heal to an extent but it's not because a) it only heals those who are in its area of effect and b) as always, it requires Divinity mode in order to heal.
Complete lack of group wide heals? That's all you have for the most part. Astral Shield, Forgemasters Flame, Sun Burst, Bastion of Health, Astral Seal - ALL group wide heals in one form or another. Divinity is part of playing a cleric. You don't have mana in this game so you have to manage divinity. If you can't do that it's not the game's problem, it's yours. (A somewhat nice way of saying L2P i guess)
4. My biggest problem: the excessive amount of aggro that healing creates in this game. I've lost count of the number of times that all the adds would attack me instead of anyone else just for simply casting one healing spell. This of course distracts me from being able to heal the rest of the party because I have to waste time dodging adds. Cue the rest of my party yelling abuse at me like "WHY THE HELL ARENT U HEALING ME IDIOT GOD UR USELESS". Well genius, it's kinda hard to focus on healing you when the mobs are turning me into a human pinata and taking me down. "WELL THEN STOP GOING DOWN IDIOT". Well gee sir, I'd love to stay alive, if it weren't for all the ten million adds who all decided to turn their attention to me in unison, for the immense crime of casting one little healing spell. Adds that YOU proceeded to then ignore to whack away at the boss while the adds murder me with impunity, so it's clearly my fault. Silly me for not realizing that clerics are actually supposed to be tanks in this game, despite the fact that IN EVERY OTHER MMO clerics are supposed to be healers and NOT tanks. I guess Guardian Fighters are just there to relax and look pretty while clerics do all the tanking for them -_-
Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go roll a Trickster Rogue and dps to my heart's content. Or just play a different game entirely. Healing in this game is a fool's errand.
So you get agro? Sure it's a problem they will have to address along with many other problems, but it's not like it can't be turned to your advantage. One heal spell and you have all the agro from the adds, kite them and your DPS are free to kill the boss quickly. Win.
Sounds to me like you wanted an easymode healer that presses the same button over and over and over again and does nothing else so you could get by with your lack of actual in game skill.
And yes, I have a cleric. Level 60, I have done all the T2's and Castle never (legit btw, not with bugs)
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xt4nkiMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 17Arc User
edited May 2013
I LOVE MY 60 LVL CLERIC!
I don't even have any problem with healing my group, if they are doing theirs job good I can easly heal them, if they are dumb they just die - who care?
Ads atack you? Where is problem? With aoe heal u can heal urself like the others - at my first 60 lvl dungeon i take over 1,5m dmg from ads on last boss and i have too use like ~40 potions.. but 7,6m amount of healing save me..
IT IS NEVERWINTER ! NOT FCK WoW OR ANY OTHER MMO...
healing is awesome in this game...something different finally...and really requires some thought on how to spec your feats. I can't wait to see a wave of cry babies when the FOTM gets nerfed!
I (Rogue) was in an epic dungeon (Mad Dragon) with a fantastic group the other day, 2 healers 1 GWF and 1 GF. and the healers did a fantastic job on while we were fighting the dragon.
The GF Tanked the dragon while the healers kept him up and the GWF and myself protected the healers, when all the add’s were down I would help the GF on the dragon but only while under stealth as to not draw agro onto myself, when the fiend spawned towards the end I did as much DPS against it as I could staying very close to the healers, they did a great job and I took very little damage, the GWF took care of the smaller adds. It was the best team work I have ever seen with a random group of people, and all coms were through the party chat, except for the GF who was talking through the in game VIOP system
Was absolutely epic and so rewarding to be in group of random players each playing there parts so well... I personally love having at least 1 healer in epic dungeons
I was once grouped with 4 rogues and a control wizard on the Mad dragon and well we couldn’t get passed the first boss
healing is awesome in this game...something different finally...and really requires some thought on how to spec your feats. I can't wait to see a wave of cry babies when the FOTM gets nerfed!
I agree many people here complaining can not be 60 with any gear at all. Stack recovery mix in some decent crit and whatever else and this class becomes very fun active healing class. I would say even leveling I would have loved it if I knew better how cleric worked in Neverwinter.
Lots of fun. I really don't have a problem with the aggro issue unless my group is garbage. I am using almost no pots at all in Epic Dungeons with PUGS. I am really enjoying it. I don't like it much in PvP because most of the PvP nerds wont use any teamwork to keep cleric alive they all just want to dps derp derp. How about a smokebomb rogue to keep your squishies alive?
Most will only learn to appreciate a healer when they ran a group without it. There is also a high probability that a rogue's player is a **** given that it was the FOTM...and with 4 rogue, your chances are not good.
all i want as a GF is a regeneration heal and and buffs you can give me. the problem is threat. it's very hard to keep mobs off clerics and, like OP says, they cant heal while running for their lives. this game has alienated the two most hard sought classes in groups: tanks and healers. PLEASE DEVS, we don't know what is broken balance wise (if anything) until we can tank and heal properly (which doesnt necessarily mean wow style, but surely not clerics pulling everything ALL the time)
MAKE MARK HIT ENEMY AND ALL ENEMIES AROUND IT.
MAKE THREATENING RUSH A 2-3 SECOND TAUNT THAT STILL MARKS THE SAME WAY.
REMOVE HEALING AGGRO.
I would like the aggro to be fixed (unless it's working as intended). Either way, as long as it remains this way, then the strategy is for the team to take care of adds so that healers can heal. Failure to do so is just due to **** player/s that fail/s to strategize.
They are a lil to quiet for my taste..
Some transparency would be nice at this point...
They are still stuck on the Ty for playing we continue to work on server stability broken record...
They did announce fixing to boss pathing only to end up having to pull from patch because it didnt work out..
Maybe that why they say nothing lol. As in you'll just end up with egg on your face promising such fixes and something going wrong.
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morgolashMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 11Arc User
edited May 2013
At this point it feels more like people don't know how to play cleric and then blaming aggro, which is only broken insofar as the feat points and the Soothe power goes.
They are a lil to quiet for my taste..
Some transparency would be nice at this point...
They are still stuck on the Ty for playing we continue to work on server stability broken record...
They did announce fixing to boss pathing only to end up having to pull from patch because it didnt work out..
Maybe that why they say nothing lol. As in you'll just end up with egg on your face promising such fixes and something going wrong.
I have a feeling, like Nexon, PWE doesn't allow their developers to communicate with players. Which is probably very frustrating for them.
I wanna go back to being weird. I like being weird. Weird's all I got, oh, and my sweet style. -Maurice Moss, The IT Crowd
At this point it feels more like people don't know how to play cleric and then blaming aggro, which is only broken insofar as the feat points and the Soothe power goes.
I imagine that if Soothe worked, people would be less likely to blame aggro because they presumably would have to deal less with it.
I play a D cleric and find that astral shield, bastion of health and sun burst do quite a good job with sanctify ground with feat in the heling section of it work well, astral seal and scared flame too, but yes it not the easiest game to heal and and even with sooth fully specced out and more feat in reduce threat healing threat is pretty high I think.
There's no healing rotation in this game. Healers in D&D are not some weak *** cloth wearing sissy from World of Warcraft. There's a reason why clerics wear chain mail they are meant to be wading knee deep in the front line together with the tanks and DPS bashing enemies in the nogging with their mace of disruption +5.
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morgolashMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 11Arc User
a whole page of QQ about quitting the game because a certain aspect of the game is broken in a Beta. Be nice if your kind would be a part of the solution and not add to the cancer. well bye, enjoy WoW.
There's no healing rotation in this game. Healers in D&D are not some weak *** cloth wearing sissy from World of Warcraft. There's a reason why clerics wear chain mail they are meant to be wading knee deep in the front line together with the tanks and DPS bashing enemies in the nogging with their mace of disruption +5.
You're thinking of the Battle Cleric. Which is closer to the iconic cleric archetype. This is the Devoted Cleric, which is long range support, with Wisdom based prayers. More like the old Priest class.
I wanna go back to being weird. I like being weird. Weird's all I got, oh, and my sweet style. -Maurice Moss, The IT Crowd
And yet, they're savvy enough to get their grubby fingers in many potentially good pies in the gaming industry aren't they... they spread out like a cancerous growth, causing all sorts of problems with their ham fisted approach to a entire consumer set that are slowly wising up.
Please notice the D&D banner just over the large Neverwinter at the top of the page. Any idea what that means?
In a real world setting it would mean you have Bigbys interposing hand and magic missiles and fireballs and lightning bolts and ice walls.....maybe phantasmal force some harms spells, maybe an ottilukes spell and Rary to boot......none of this is here..this is not DnD ADnD..it is an mmo with the background set in the FR's and nothing else.
Rogues dont pick pockets. do not set traps or use poison.
Clerics do not direct heal, have harm spells or raise the dead, or have any protection spells I am aware of.
Mages do not use magic missiles, color spray or melfs or acid arrows or any traditional spells
Once again just because a sign on it says it is a car if it does not honk, have four wheels, or does not look like car .....
Today we fight the GAULS......monstrous and HAIRY beyond reason.
You're thinking of the Battle Cleric. Which is closer to the iconic cleric archetype. This is the Devoted Cleric, which is long range support, with Wisdom based prayers. More like the old Priest class.
Since when?
If I don't stand next to the other DPS/GWF/GF then they don't come to me to peel these adds. Honestly, with all my heals and mits that I pass around like a pedo passing out candy, it's better for me to be front lines that back of the lines. Because if all DPS is on the boss and adds pop, they will high tail it to the cleric that foolishly stands in the far back and will likely be dead before the DPS, even cognazant DPS swivels their heads and come to 'save me'.
I slot Power, recovery, defense and yeah, I'm like a soft squishy sponge that gets wrung out in the bath, repeatedly.
In a real world setting it would mean you have Bigbys interposing hand and magic missiles and fireballs and lightning bolts and ice walls.....maybe phantasmal force some harms spells, maybe an ottilukes spell and Rary to boot......none of this is here..this is not DnS ADnD..it is an mmo with the background set in the FR's and nothing else.
Rogues dont pick pockets. do not set traps or use poison.
Clerics do not direct heal, have harm spells or raise the dead, or have any protection spells I am aware of.
Mages do not use magic missiles, color spray or melfs or acid arrows or any traditional spells
Once again just because a sign on it says it is a car if it does not honk, have four wheels, or look like car does not make it a car.
wouldn't poison be more the assassin class? :P but other than that lil remark you're spot on with your description of what this game is.
wouldn't poison be more the assassin class? :P but other than that lil remark you're spot on with your description of what this game is.
yes you are right.....my point was to personify that rogues, hell every class thusly represented in this game are pale shadows of what they are supposed to be and IMO are not even recognizable as such based on what they do with the exception of TH damage dealers and tanks.
An after thought.........Crafting in this game would be quite original if it was reliant on other crafters for goods lets say for example some wants to craft +1 plate.....We all know how this goes...A blacksmith crafts some suit of armor exceptional in quality. He then hires a mage to enchant it. This mage muct research and come up with gold equal to the power of the item.. so those plus time = suit of armor....
MORE AFTERTHOUGHTS Rogues can, as well as Bards cast magic spells from scrolls...Where are the scrolls.......They can also to a limited power identify magical items...less of a need for those garbage scrolls that drop. The scrolls dropping like cany are immersion breakers....Since when is a scroll usable by everyone?
Instead we have another aspect NOT native to DnD in crafting.
So all this leads on to the conslusion thusly that this is not ADnD but an MMo with a background in the Forgotten Realms
Today we fight the GAULS......monstrous and HAIRY beyond reason.
OK here's my issue with the healing as 30+ Cleric.
I have invested in everything that lowers my threat from healing, and i still INSTANTLY pull
agro from EVERYTHING when i am in a group running a dungeon or skirmish, and that
is just R-tarded. Today i tried healing for a group in MDD, and on the first boss, i died almost
instantly because everything that spawned, jumped me and popped me before i could pot.
I can stand in the background and wait for my crew to build agro, and only start healing once
they reach 50% health, and i still pull agro from EVERYTHING in the room. I had 2 Warlords chasing
me around a room, when i had barely healed anything.
To me it's clear that the healing builds WAAAAAY too much agro compared to the amount of healing
clerics currently puts out. We're not massivly healing, but we are building more agro with 1 small
healing-spell, then the rest of the group pulls using their damage combined.
Currently i'm really losing my patience with this agro-issue, and eventho i just started this game
last sunday, im really considering taking a break until i see some patch-notes about the
agro being balanced.
Sadly i am forced to agree but we can also call it very realistic?
Who do we , as players, go after first and immediately? The healers maybe a dps mob but certainly the cleric first...
Using this logic, we should all roll dps because our enemies would run around in circles trying to decide
who to kill first... It just doesn't work. When a healer pulls the agro of an entire room by casting a healing
spell, and then can't lose agro even if he/she stops, you got an issue with the agro-system... clearly.
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aeonbluessMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
It sure is not fun to enter an epic dungeon with no cleric. The party sits around, player after player dropping from the party, because cleric is such a vital role that there is no chance of defeating the boss with out one. I know one solution for this problem...
Comments
That's how the cleric is supposed to be played, divinity management is important. This isn't any other game where you just sit back and heal and do nothing else. The playstyle forces you to be proactive and contribute in more ways than pressing your heal hotkey over and over again.
This skill sucks and you shouldn't be using it anyways.
Complete lack of group wide heals? That's all you have for the most part. Astral Shield, Forgemasters Flame, Sun Burst, Bastion of Health, Astral Seal - ALL group wide heals in one form or another. Divinity is part of playing a cleric. You don't have mana in this game so you have to manage divinity. If you can't do that it's not the game's problem, it's yours. (A somewhat nice way of saying L2P i guess)
So you get agro? Sure it's a problem they will have to address along with many other problems, but it's not like it can't be turned to your advantage. One heal spell and you have all the agro from the adds, kite them and your DPS are free to kill the boss quickly. Win.
Sounds to me like you wanted an easymode healer that presses the same button over and over and over again and does nothing else so you could get by with your lack of actual in game skill.
And yes, I have a cleric. Level 60, I have done all the T2's and Castle never (legit btw, not with bugs)
I don't even have any problem with healing my group, if they are doing theirs job good I can easly heal them, if they are dumb they just die - who care?
Ads atack you? Where is problem? With aoe heal u can heal urself like the others - at my first 60 lvl dungeon i take over 1,5m dmg from ads on last boss and i have too use like ~40 potions.. but 7,6m amount of healing save me..
IT IS NEVERWINTER ! NOT FCK WoW OR ANY OTHER MMO...
OnTopic:
Healing in this game is actually a ton of fun, IF they fix the aggro-problems.
The GF Tanked the dragon while the healers kept him up and the GWF and myself protected the healers, when all the add’s were down I would help the GF on the dragon but only while under stealth as to not draw agro onto myself, when the fiend spawned towards the end I did as much DPS against it as I could staying very close to the healers, they did a great job and I took very little damage, the GWF took care of the smaller adds. It was the best team work I have ever seen with a random group of people, and all coms were through the party chat, except for the GF who was talking through the in game VIOP system
Was absolutely epic and so rewarding to be in group of random players each playing there parts so well... I personally love having at least 1 healer in epic dungeons
I was once grouped with 4 rogues and a control wizard on the Mad dragon and well we couldn’t get passed the first boss
I agree many people here complaining can not be 60 with any gear at all. Stack recovery mix in some decent crit and whatever else and this class becomes very fun active healing class. I would say even leveling I would have loved it if I knew better how cleric worked in Neverwinter.
Lots of fun. I really don't have a problem with the aggro issue unless my group is garbage. I am using almost no pots at all in Epic Dungeons with PUGS. I am really enjoying it. I don't like it much in PvP because most of the PvP nerds wont use any teamwork to keep cleric alive they all just want to dps derp derp. How about a smokebomb rogue to keep your squishies alive?
:cool:
MAKE THREATENING RUSH A 2-3 SECOND TAUNT THAT STILL MARKS THE SAME WAY.
REMOVE HEALING AGGRO.
what surprises me the most is no dev response on which side of the fence they stand?
Is this going to be the way it is for clerics or is the aggro problem going to be looked into?
Some transparency would be nice at this point...
They are still stuck on the Ty for playing we continue to work on server stability broken record...
They did announce fixing to boss pathing only to end up having to pull from patch because it didnt work out..
Maybe that why they say nothing lol. As in you'll just end up with egg on your face promising such fixes and something going wrong.
I have a feeling, like Nexon, PWE doesn't allow their developers to communicate with players. Which is probably very frustrating for them.
I imagine that if Soothe worked, people would be less likely to blame aggro because they presumably would have to deal less with it.
Cos we all know, that NEXON are a brilliant company... and gamers the world over rejoice at hearing their names.
See page 20
That's my point.
You're thinking of the Battle Cleric. Which is closer to the iconic cleric archetype. This is the Devoted Cleric, which is long range support, with Wisdom based prayers. More like the old Priest class.
And yet, they're savvy enough to get their grubby fingers in many potentially good pies in the gaming industry aren't they... they spread out like a cancerous growth, causing all sorts of problems with their ham fisted approach to a entire consumer set that are slowly wising up.
In a real world setting it would mean you have Bigbys interposing hand and magic missiles and fireballs and lightning bolts and ice walls.....maybe phantasmal force some harms spells, maybe an ottilukes spell and Rary to boot......none of this is here..this is not DnD ADnD..it is an mmo with the background set in the FR's and nothing else.
Rogues dont pick pockets. do not set traps or use poison.
Clerics do not direct heal, have harm spells or raise the dead, or have any protection spells I am aware of.
Mages do not use magic missiles, color spray or melfs or acid arrows or any traditional spells
Once again just because a sign on it says it is a car if it does not honk, have four wheels, or does not look like car .....
Since when?
If I don't stand next to the other DPS/GWF/GF then they don't come to me to peel these adds. Honestly, with all my heals and mits that I pass around like a pedo passing out candy, it's better for me to be front lines that back of the lines. Because if all DPS is on the boss and adds pop, they will high tail it to the cleric that foolishly stands in the far back and will likely be dead before the DPS, even cognazant DPS swivels their heads and come to 'save me'.
I slot Power, recovery, defense and yeah, I'm like a soft squishy sponge that gets wrung out in the bath, repeatedly.
wouldn't poison be more the assassin class? :P but other than that lil remark you're spot on with your description of what this game is.
yes you are right.....my point was to personify that rogues, hell every class thusly represented in this game are pale shadows of what they are supposed to be and IMO are not even recognizable as such based on what they do with the exception of TH damage dealers and tanks.
An after thought.........Crafting in this game would be quite original if it was reliant on other crafters for goods lets say for example some wants to craft +1 plate.....We all know how this goes...A blacksmith crafts some suit of armor exceptional in quality. He then hires a mage to enchant it. This mage muct research and come up with gold equal to the power of the item.. so those plus time = suit of armor....
MORE AFTERTHOUGHTS Rogues can, as well as Bards cast magic spells from scrolls...Where are the scrolls.......They can also to a limited power identify magical items...less of a need for those garbage scrolls that drop. The scrolls dropping like cany are immersion breakers....Since when is a scroll usable by everyone?
Instead we have another aspect NOT native to DnD in crafting.
So all this leads on to the conslusion thusly that this is not ADnD but an MMo with a background in the Forgotten Realms
I have invested in everything that lowers my threat from healing, and i still INSTANTLY pull
agro from EVERYTHING when i am in a group running a dungeon or skirmish, and that
is just R-tarded. Today i tried healing for a group in MDD, and on the first boss, i died almost
instantly because everything that spawned, jumped me and popped me before i could pot.
I can stand in the background and wait for my crew to build agro, and only start healing once
they reach 50% health, and i still pull agro from EVERYTHING in the room. I had 2 Warlords chasing
me around a room, when i had barely healed anything.
To me it's clear that the healing builds WAAAAAY too much agro compared to the amount of healing
clerics currently puts out. We're not massivly healing, but we are building more agro with 1 small
healing-spell, then the rest of the group pulls using their damage combined.
Currently i'm really losing my patience with this agro-issue, and eventho i just started this game
last sunday, im really considering taking a break until i see some patch-notes about the
agro being balanced.
Who do we , as players, go after first and immediately? The healers maybe a dps mob but certainly the cleric first...
Using this logic, we should all roll dps because our enemies would run around in circles trying to decide
who to kill first... It just doesn't work. When a healer pulls the agro of an entire room by casting a healing
spell, and then can't lose agro even if he/she stops, you got an issue with the agro-system... clearly.