An at will aoe heal? sounds....balanced and involving..... or not...
Heals from a healer sounds unbalanced? Have you actually done any of the dungeons, it's hardly unbalanced to add in that little heal on the mobs people are killing. They have to actually hit the mobs to get the tiny heal effect you know.
Heals from a healer sounds unbalanced? Have you actually done any of the dungeons, it's hardly unbalanced to add in that little heal on the mobs people are killing. They have to actually hit the mobs to get the tiny heal effect you know.
No, an AT WILL AOE meaning 0 cooldown aoe heal, sounds like it's half a sunburst with no cooldown, so yes, comparatively that would be overpowered.
Astral seal, is NOT your only heal spell, you HAVE got healing word, and very shortly after the AMAZING forgemasters flame which keeps you going til astral shield.
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lollieMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
It seems like so many clerics detest the fact that they aren't the group's special snowflake that carries the success of the mission upon their shoulders.
Personally, I don't see what is wrong with support being no more essential that other roles. Why does one class need to be the backbone of the entire group?
You can feel free, I can do more, more consistently with half of the aggravation on my CW.
Not everyone will like every class. I was surprised how much I enjoyed the wizard too, and the cleric does not intrigue me as much as I expected, but I don't think there is anything wrong with the cleric, other than aggro (the complaint here is about the playstyle, not the possibly bugged healing threat). I really find it refreshing how the classes here are a bit different from the usual MMO standard fare. And it is good that you found one that you enjoy and have fun with.
Who wants to heal in Neverwinter anyway, it's the bum job.
I don't feel it is. I've healed on every class in WoW, in every style I could, right up til just before MoP. This is literally a discipline priest of sorts in design, you're half DPS, half HPS and all kickass awesomeness, but it's FAR more involving than say shaman healing or resto druids (to use similar examples as they're well known ones)
Why would you equate spamming heals of varying degree's which auto target or aoe heal, as the pinnacle of healing design?
Stuff like FF require thought as to which mob you place it on, not much thought but doing so allows you to DOT them up, and heal a group for a nice amount over the duration, you have empowered healing words for those emergency heals (if you feel you need to maximise HPS over DPS/HPS hybrid output) if you get repurpose soul you then proc passive healing while building divinity.
I mean... cleric is fantastic, and if your group is failing hardcore and blaming you, then they need to get out of the mentality that you're there SOLELY to remove the necessity that they play with a brain.
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lollieMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I've enjoyed playing healer in most MMOs that I've played, but being healer in this game is one of the most unfun things I've ever had the misfortune of experiencing. Putting aside the fact that healing in MMOs is often a thankless task (every group needs a healer, but most groups don't really show any appreciation for your healing; they kind of take you for granted if you do your job properly, and rage at you needlessly if you're not doing it properly), there's a myriad of problems with healing in this game, namely:
1. There are NO direct heals in this game without having to use up Divinity. Most of the so-called "heal" abilities in this game either a) require to you to attack an enemy (Astral Seal, Sacred Flame) or b) require Divinity mode to function as a heal (Forgemasters flame). Even the closest ability to a direct heal (Healing Word), only applies a slow Regen effect on party members. Sure I could switch to Divinity mode for a direct heal, but when there's four other party members all critically low on health, and only 3 divinity charges to use, healing quickly becomes a nightmare. Seriously, who the hell thought this was good game design?
2. On the subject of Healing Word, why is it that I only have a max of 3 charges to use, and there's a 1 second pause between each charge, and when I run out of charges I have wait roughly TEN SECONDS before I can cast it again? IN EVERY OTHER MMO I'VE PLAYED, healers always have at least one spammable DIRECT HEAL ability with no cooldown whatsoever. Why does this game have to be different?
3. The complete lack of groupwide heals in this game. I don't consider Guardian Angel to be a proper groupwide heal since it heals for so little that it's virtually useless in epic dungeons. I guess you might be able to say Astral Shield is a group heal to an extent but it's not because a) it only heals those who are in its area of effect and b) as always, it requires Divinity mode in order to heal.
4. My biggest problem: the excessive amount of aggro that healing creates in this game. I've lost count of the number of times that all the adds would attack me instead of anyone else just for simply casting one healing spell. This of course distracts me from being able to heal the rest of the party because I have to waste time dodging adds. Cue the rest of my party yelling abuse at me like "WHY THE HELL ARENT U HEALING ME IDIOT GOD UR USELESS". Well genius, it's kinda hard to focus on healing you when the mobs are turning me into a human pinata and taking me down. "WELL THEN STOP GOING DOWN IDIOT". Well gee sir, I'd love to stay alive, if it weren't for all the ten million adds who all decided to turn their attention to me in unison, for the immense crime of casting one little healing spell. Adds that YOU proceeded to then ignore to whack away at the boss while the adds murder me with impunity, so it's clearly my fault. Silly me for not realizing that clerics are actually supposed to be tanks in this game, despite the fact that IN EVERY OTHER MMO clerics are supposed to be healers and NOT tanks. I guess Guardian Fighters are just there to relax and look pretty while clerics do all the tanking for them -_-
Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go roll a Trickster Rogue and dps to my heart's content. Or just play a different game entirely. Healing in this game is a fool's errand.
Have you even played a Cleric at max level?
1. You can either use divinity at wills or there's tons of aoe heals you can cast on the ground that heals direct heals..
2. Because you're not supposed to spam that encounter all the time.. You're supposed to use more encounters and at wills to build up divinity then use those for the big heals..
3. Seriously? okay there's like 2 big aoe heals, then there's encounters that aoe heal when you use divinity. We're mainly aoe healers, there's a lack of single target heals, not aoe heals.
4. Yes the threat is an issue and they are working on it. But you could just stand in a giant circle and tank everything for the group and skip dodging the adds unless you really need to.
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nw000Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 11Arc User
edited May 2013
I thought the healing threat was broken until I've reduced my healing powers and focused on defense and sustained heals through recovery.
It's just... beautiful. Also you should slot Soothe. There's nothing better than to have aggro, bring the mob closer to the AoE madness and happily move out with the mob raging at somebody else so you can focus on keeping the party buffed.
If the devs reduce healing threat it will be really sad, it's gonna make the game very lame and easy with a bunch of powerful heals for everyone.
I'm perfectly fine with the way Clerics heal in this game, perfectly fine.
The way bosses/adds are and the threat just makes it the most unfun and frustrating thing I've ever experienced.
Giving up on my Cleric til this mess is fixed. Same with the self heal debuff, just makes no sense. I don't think I've once had to clutch save people with heals or worry about healing people, hell just astral seal or OP shield can take care of everything, instead all it is, is struggling to not die to the 20 overpowered adds that are on you even if you heal someone for 1 hp, and not being able to do anything about it.
I thought the healing threat was broken until I've reduced my healing powers and focused on defense and sustained heals through recovery.
It's just... beautiful. Also you should slot Soothe. There's nothing better than to have aggro, bring the mob closer to the AoE madness and happily move out with the mob raging at somebody else so you can focus on keeping the party buffed.
If the devs reduce healing threat it will be really sad, it's gonna make the game very lame and easy with a bunch of powerful heals for everyone.
I don't want healing threat to be non-existant, but small amounts of healing should not "Alert the Horde" and cause everything in a 50 mile radius to be on top of you dry humping you to death. Significant amounts of burst healing should be able to cause a few things to hate you, but all the little things shouldn't.
The way it usually works in other games. I shouldn't be afraid of putting a HoT on someone or Astral Sealing this, or critting and proccing Repurpose heals and cause everything to come and kill me. That's just dumb. Assuming there isn't a GF or GWF focusing on threat, the monsters threat should be fairly spread out amongst everyone unless someone sways it in some way, massive burst healing or dmg etc.
On top of that, I don't think soothe should be a passive, threat reduction should be an active thing or a feated thing, or both. Say, feats that make certain encounters erase or lower threat, etc.
Sorry OP but I have to disagree with you on almost everything you stated. I have had the pleasure of running dungeons with a number of pure healers and many are simply amazing. I miss healers that know what they are doing in combat and it hurts (Grin). Not having a healer in a nasty dungeon, small group, solo, or in regular party is definitely felt.
There is no worse feeling in the world than the moment during an argument you realize you are wrong.
In 11 years of MMO gaming i never EVER seen such a stupid healing system or agro system....this game fails in so many ways and i was really looking forward playing it....
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nw000Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 11Arc User
I don't want healing threat to be non-existant, but small amounts of healing should not "Alert the Horde" and cause everything in a 50 mile radius to be on top of you dry humping you to death. Significant amounts of burst healing should be able to cause a few things to hate you, but all the little things shouldn't.
The way it usually works in other games. I shouldn't be afraid of putting a HoT on someone or Astral Sealing this, or critting and proccing Repurpose heals and cause everything to come and kill me. That's just dumb. Assuming there isn't a GF or GWF focusing on threat, the monsters threat should be fairly spread out amongst everyone unless someone sways it in some way, massive burst healing or dmg etc.
On top of that, I don't think soothe should be a passive, threat reduction should be an active thing or a feated thing, or both. Say, feats that make certain encounters erase or lower threat, etc.
Maybe your crits are just way too powerful and/or frequent. It's not a good idea to focus on crits if you don't have a core group.
Hey all, thanks for letting us know your thoughts about healing! We're continually working to make the game better and better. This feedback helps us to do that! Cheers!
I don't think we even NEED to reduce threat from heals like folks seem to want.
Could just add in a new encounter/daily
"prayer of atonement"
Locks the cleric in place and dazes them for x seconds but grants x% damage reduction and reduces all threat over the course of the skill for it's duration.
Moderate/high cooldown
Could work better than just "hurhur less heal aggro"
The best is people in Heroic Lair of the Spider when the Driders or last boss dispell your Astral Shield and everybody is like ERMARGERD LAY YOUR SHIELD
Maybe your crits are just way too powerful and/or frequent. It's not a good idea to focus on crits if you don't have a core group.
What? It has nothing to do with that.
I could literally do nothing but attack a single mob that everyone else is hitting, repurpose heals someone for like 50, boom everything not being killed is on me.
That shouldn't happen.
If I'm do some big heals and healed someone for 30% of their health then sure maybe.
It's not entirely the Threat is too high! for clerics. It's THREAT IS TOO HIGH AND HEALING REDUCTION IS TOO HIGH!!!!
Combine the two, and you have super squishy clerics running around flailing their hands and screaming like school girls with their skirts above their heads. I've popped health potions that have failed to heal me. I have used all manner of healing skills on myself and watch as everyone else's HPs go up by significant amounts (I heal GF and GWF more than I heal myself) and mine only nudge in the proper direction.
It's too much. Clerics need to have something give. A *real* aggro reduction if specced into it, and maybe ease the heal reduction to about half of what it is and the clerics will be in a nice place.
One note on threat...I would hate to be the healer. That said if the game allowed some random player to play the boss monster to make dungeons truly dynamic, I would go after the healer and have my mobs swarm the healers and keep them down unless the guardian could put up a shield for you I had to smash through, at that point I would HAVE to attack the dps folks then focus my attention on the healer again.
Extremely High threat for the person keeping the players alive that are hurting me makes more than enough sense and folks hate the challenge, it also makes sense. if anything the developers might give guardians a bubble (or something) they have to maintain (not with stamina). The concept of threat is an old, tired mechanic and common sense needs to take hold and flesh out more unique ideas like the one I presented, player ran bosses and cc for the healer.
Maybe even a shield the healer could erect themselves when the healer gets into the extreme high threat range that forces folks to kill the mobs beating on it before they break through and then go back to focusing the boss.
Lots of ideas but threat, the healer deserves all they get in my opinion. It is up to the party to keep the healer alive creatively.
There is no worse feeling in the world than the moment during an argument you realize you are wrong.
One note on threat...I would hate to be the healer. That said if the game allowed some random player to play the boss monster to make dungeons truly dynamic, I would go after the healer and have my mobs swarm the healers and keep them down unless the guardian could put up a shield for you I had to smash through, at that point I would HAVE to attack the dps folks then focus my attention on the healer again.
Extremely High threat for the person keeping the players alive that are hurting me makes more than enough sense and folks hate the challenge, it also makes sense. if anything the developers might give guardians a bubble (or something) they have to maintain (not with stamina). The concept of threat is an old, tired mechanic and common sense needs to take hold and flesh out more unique ideas like the one I presented, player ran bosses and cc for the healer.
Maybe even a shield the healer could erect themselves when the healer gets into the extreme high threat range that forces folks to kill the mobs beating on it before they break through and then go back to focusing the boss.
Lots of ideas but threat, the healer deserves all they get in my opinion. It is up to the party to keep the healer alive creatively.
Nice ideas, instead of the tank getting hit it could use it's abilities to guard the healer that will generate the threat (because it's healing the dps) and then it could help with dps but not as good as a pure dps. More of a hybrid, dps/guard. Would make more sence if you think about it and in the end they would be needed to help keep the healers alive who keeps everyone else alive because the mobs would have to hit the dps aswell somehow with aoe stuff or something.
I could literally do nothing but attack a single mob that everyone else is hitting, repurpose heals someone for like 50, boom everything not being killed is on me.
That shouldn't happen.
If I'm do some big heals and healed someone for 30% of their health then sure maybe.
Maybe I'm wrong but it seems that in a lot of fights, be it packs of mobs or even boss fights some enemies are meant to chase you, the threat is completely ignored which in my opinion is very fun and good for the gameplay.
I take acceptation to that, as I have personally pulled my teams collective arses out of the fire, but usually your right, dps can get the job done if they would just slide!
After reading this thread I kinda feel the need to give my personal opinion on this topic since I also have a healer at end levels here.
First of all there seems to be 2 main opinions here. First, the healer doesn't have good enough heals to save people and he is unable to keep people (even the mentally challenged ) to full health at all times. Second, the healer is fine the way he is since the way he heals is challenging and more of a support heal than a big boost of life for everyone.
Well it's obvious for anyone who has play a cleric here that they both have some valid points. The way cleric seems to heal here is a much more settle one that what most people are used to from other mmos and it's obvious that new clerics will either get some getting used to or fail to notice it and just drop the class. Personally I was also having a hard time at first figuring out why my healer wasn't really able to actually heal people as it usually goes. Then after a few party runs I noticed that my heals were actually doing a much better job from what I originally thought.
It's true that the cleric here (at least with the current pagon path available) has no real life saving heals (aside the AS at 50lvl perhaps) but his little regens are secretly keeping everyone alive. Of course the secret is out once the healer dies which is the next part I'm going to cover.
The argo system is obviously not working right.
There are some posts mentioning that this makes the the adds look "smart" since they go for the healer but that reminds me funny logic of "it's not a bug, it's a feature"
I have also read that they are aware of it and working for a solution in the long run (since a lot of calibarations are needed to actually make it a fix and not a bigger bug).
In any case since the fix will take a while, the healers now are having a tough break.
While on a boss fight we take up most of the adds and if the rest of the party isn't used to this game's gameplay either, they kinda forget about us and keep it up on the boss. Of course that has as a result, death.
There are 2 more points adding on the broken argo that makes our lives hard on a boss fight.
Much like the healer, this game brings a different aspect on the party's gameplay considering most people are used to other mmos. Unlike other mmos where you may be able to say "it's ok, he is a healer, he will survive" or "If we kill the boss fast enough it will save him", in this game it doesn't quite works that way and untill the rest of the group realizes that everyone has a different job and not just hit the boss and let the healer be your pot, things will be bad.
The other thing is that aside from the horde that is after us and our non-lifesavers heals which usually require us to hit someone in order to heal ourselves, there is an other thing we have as a class-passive that gives us -40% healing on ourselves. So keeping ourselves alive is getting kinda tricky and usually only the divine AS that may saves us for a while without help. Of course all does make our job to heal the rest of the team a whole lot harder.
As a conclusion I would like to say that I personally like the healer here but I thing he could get better at his job (and able to cover for some party mistakes) with a few changes.
Perhaps a nice big aoe heal with a long cooldown or as daily power would be nice, maybe a regen that last for long (much like the astral seal) but targeted on players instead of mobs and having the heals generating no argo unless someone else already has argo on them.
Maybe with the skills of the other 2 paragon paths we will see such skills with a few less dps around.
I know it's a long post, hopefully the bold text, underlines and paragraphs will make it easier to read it.
After reading this thread I kinda feel the need to give my personal opinion on this topic since I also have a healer at end levels here.
First of all there seems to be 2 main opinions here. First, the healer doesn't have good enough heals to save people and he is unable to keep people (even the mentally challenged ) to full health at all times. Second, the healer is fine the way he is since the way he heals is challenging and more of a support heal than a big boost of life for everyone.
Well it's obvious for anyone who has play a cleric here that they both have some valid points. The way cleric seems to heal here is a much more settle one that what most people are used to from other mmos and it's obvious that new clerics will either get some getting used to or fail to notice it and just drop the class. Personally I was also having a hard time at first figuring out why my healer wasn't really able to actually heal people as it usually goes. Then after a few party runs I noticed that my heals were actually doing a much better job from what I originally thought.
It's true that the cleric here (at least with the current pagon path available) has no real life saving heals (aside the AS at 50lvl perhaps) but his little regens are secretly keeping everyone alive. Of course the secret is out once the healer dies which is the next part I'm going to cover.
The argo system is obviously not working right.
There are some posts mentioning that this makes the the adds look "smart" since they go for the healer but that reminds me funny logic of "it's not a bug, it's a feature"
I have also read that they are aware of it and working for a solution in the long run (since a lot of calibarations are needed to actually make it a fix and not a bigger bug).
In any case since the fix will take a while, the healers now are having a tough break.
While on a boss fight we take up most of the adds and if the rest of the party isn't used to this game's gameplay either, they kinda forget about us and keep it up on the boss. Of course that has as a result, death.
There are 2 more points adding on the broken argo that makes our lives hard on a boss fight.
Much like the healer, this game brings a different aspect on the party's gameplay considering most people are used to other mmos. Unlike other mmos where you may be able to say "it's ok, he is a healer, he will survive" or "If we kill the boss fast enough it will save him", in this game it doesn't quite works that way and untill the rest of the group realizes that everyone has a different job and not just hit the boss and let the healer be your pot, things will be bad.
The other thing is that aside from the horde that is after us and our non-lifesavers heals which usually require us to hit someone in order to heal ourselves, there is an other thing we have as a class-passive that gives us -40% healing on ourselves. So keeping ourselves alive is getting kinda tricky and usually only the divine AS that may saves us for a while without help. Of course all does make our job to heal the rest of the team a whole lot harder.
I know it's a long post, hopefully the bold text, underlines and paragraphs will make it easier to read it.
IN EVERY OTHER MMO I'VE PLAYED, healers always have at least one spammable DIRECT HEAL ability with no cooldown whatsoever. Why does this game have to be different?
And in every other MMO, there is a limiting resource to the heals, ie: mana. There needs to be a limiting resource (in this case, cooldown or divine power, depending what mode you're using to heal) or clerics would be unkillable.
There are no healers in this game. They are leaders. They boost your survivability by helping you recover lost health. Healing is done by potions.
Healers are just the aggro magnet of the game, no wonder everyone wants them to stay the same, the broken aggro system saves everyone else from getting beat on by mobs.
I agree Clerics in this game use reactives ( a term from EQ2 perhaps other MMo's too). Target the tank and when they are hit they are healed or when they do damge they heal.......I sorely miss the ability to directly target the tank or TARGET through the mob. I have a mid lvl cleric 40 but refuse to try and master the art of trying to heal when you cannot, by virtue of this game, even target someone in need of a heal.
There is so much racing around and ping ponging of mobs and targets I am sure even aggro does not work properly as I scarcely see tanks being able to hold aggro against pure dps. That is no slight against the players who are noteworthy but rather a slight agains the way this game implements aggro.
I mean, for INSERT GENERIC DEITIIES sake, The fast pace of this game is fine with me but the way they do heals and control mobs IS NOT.
Am I a fan of TAB ...darn skippy.........A little wisdom also explains why the end content is a zerg fest. IMO they cannot implement real strategies for end content because the basics of the game cannot support real strategies as those we are accustomed to in games like eq1-2 SWG, which are games I come from. INSTEAD we see peopl erunning around trying to stay alive and people not assisting the dps and rather off on their own doing their own thing........and even if we did assist each other and were good team players there is no way to target the same mobs as the targetting in this game is HAMSTER.
Today we fight the GAULS......monstrous and HAIRY beyond reason.
Agree the party MUST kill adds in this game, they come in swarms endlessly in skirimishs and such, its not like wow, "kill the boss, mobs vanish" these mobs multiple and stick around after you kill the boss, not to mention there is the ltittle thing about them killing your cleric, notice your cleric running in circles while the dps often time blithely burns the boss? would be easier if you were getting healed eh and I wouldn't have to waste potions while cast shield on every mob around while getting beaten like a step-child, Just look around every once in a while and see where your cleric is, you should find out who the cleric is right when the event begins
two
if they would just fix agro on clerics, one would noo even be necessary
oh yeah and if they would fix VOIP, none of this would be necessary
Comments
Heals from a healer sounds unbalanced? Have you actually done any of the dungeons, it's hardly unbalanced to add in that little heal on the mobs people are killing. They have to actually hit the mobs to get the tiny heal effect you know.
except heal.
No, an AT WILL AOE meaning 0 cooldown aoe heal, sounds like it's half a sunburst with no cooldown, so yes, comparatively that would be overpowered.
Astral seal, is NOT your only heal spell, you HAVE got healing word, and very shortly after the AMAZING forgemasters flame which keeps you going til astral shield.
Who wants to heal in Neverwinter anyway, it's the bum job.
It seems like so many clerics detest the fact that they aren't the group's special snowflake that carries the success of the mission upon their shoulders.
Personally, I don't see what is wrong with support being no more essential that other roles. Why does one class need to be the backbone of the entire group?
Not everyone will like every class. I was surprised how much I enjoyed the wizard too, and the cleric does not intrigue me as much as I expected, but I don't think there is anything wrong with the cleric, other than aggro (the complaint here is about the playstyle, not the possibly bugged healing threat). I really find it refreshing how the classes here are a bit different from the usual MMO standard fare. And it is good that you found one that you enjoy and have fun with.
I don't feel it is. I've healed on every class in WoW, in every style I could, right up til just before MoP. This is literally a discipline priest of sorts in design, you're half DPS, half HPS and all kickass awesomeness, but it's FAR more involving than say shaman healing or resto druids (to use similar examples as they're well known ones)
Why would you equate spamming heals of varying degree's which auto target or aoe heal, as the pinnacle of healing design?
Stuff like FF require thought as to which mob you place it on, not much thought but doing so allows you to DOT them up, and heal a group for a nice amount over the duration, you have empowered healing words for those emergency heals (if you feel you need to maximise HPS over DPS/HPS hybrid output) if you get repurpose soul you then proc passive healing while building divinity.
I mean... cleric is fantastic, and if your group is failing hardcore and blaming you, then they need to get out of the mentality that you're there SOLELY to remove the necessity that they play with a brain.
Cleric are definitely the special snowflakes of this game - at least all the mobs think so, following them around non-stop like psychopathic groupies.
Have you even played a Cleric at max level?
1. You can either use divinity at wills or there's tons of aoe heals you can cast on the ground that heals direct heals..
2. Because you're not supposed to spam that encounter all the time.. You're supposed to use more encounters and at wills to build up divinity then use those for the big heals..
3. Seriously? okay there's like 2 big aoe heals, then there's encounters that aoe heal when you use divinity. We're mainly aoe healers, there's a lack of single target heals, not aoe heals.
4. Yes the threat is an issue and they are working on it. But you could just stand in a giant circle and tank everything for the group and skip dodging the adds unless you really need to.
It's just... beautiful. Also you should slot Soothe. There's nothing better than to have aggro, bring the mob closer to the AoE madness and happily move out with the mob raging at somebody else so you can focus on keeping the party buffed.
If the devs reduce healing threat it will be really sad, it's gonna make the game very lame and easy with a bunch of powerful heals for everyone.
The way bosses/adds are and the threat just makes it the most unfun and frustrating thing I've ever experienced.
Giving up on my Cleric til this mess is fixed. Same with the self heal debuff, just makes no sense. I don't think I've once had to clutch save people with heals or worry about healing people, hell just astral seal or OP shield can take care of everything, instead all it is, is struggling to not die to the 20 overpowered adds that are on you even if you heal someone for 1 hp, and not being able to do anything about it.
It's just dumb IMO.
I don't want healing threat to be non-existant, but small amounts of healing should not "Alert the Horde" and cause everything in a 50 mile radius to be on top of you dry humping you to death. Significant amounts of burst healing should be able to cause a few things to hate you, but all the little things shouldn't.
The way it usually works in other games. I shouldn't be afraid of putting a HoT on someone or Astral Sealing this, or critting and proccing Repurpose heals and cause everything to come and kill me. That's just dumb. Assuming there isn't a GF or GWF focusing on threat, the monsters threat should be fairly spread out amongst everyone unless someone sways it in some way, massive burst healing or dmg etc.
On top of that, I don't think soothe should be a passive, threat reduction should be an active thing or a feated thing, or both. Say, feats that make certain encounters erase or lower threat, etc.
Maybe your crits are just way too powerful and/or frequent. It's not a good idea to focus on crits if you don't have a core group.
Could just add in a new encounter/daily
"prayer of atonement"
Locks the cleric in place and dazes them for x seconds but grants x% damage reduction and reduces all threat over the course of the skill for it's duration.
Moderate/high cooldown
Could work better than just "hurhur less heal aggro"
What? It has nothing to do with that.
I could literally do nothing but attack a single mob that everyone else is hitting, repurpose heals someone for like 50, boom everything not being killed is on me.
That shouldn't happen.
If I'm do some big heals and healed someone for 30% of their health then sure maybe.
Combine the two, and you have super squishy clerics running around flailing their hands and screaming like school girls with their skirts above their heads. I've popped health potions that have failed to heal me. I have used all manner of healing skills on myself and watch as everyone else's HPs go up by significant amounts (I heal GF and GWF more than I heal myself) and mine only nudge in the proper direction.
It's too much. Clerics need to have something give. A *real* aggro reduction if specced into it, and maybe ease the heal reduction to about half of what it is and the clerics will be in a nice place.
Extremely High threat for the person keeping the players alive that are hurting me makes more than enough sense and folks hate the challenge, it also makes sense. if anything the developers might give guardians a bubble (or something) they have to maintain (not with stamina). The concept of threat is an old, tired mechanic and common sense needs to take hold and flesh out more unique ideas like the one I presented, player ran bosses and cc for the healer.
Maybe even a shield the healer could erect themselves when the healer gets into the extreme high threat range that forces folks to kill the mobs beating on it before they break through and then go back to focusing the boss.
Lots of ideas but threat, the healer deserves all they get in my opinion. It is up to the party to keep the healer alive creatively.
Nice ideas, instead of the tank getting hit it could use it's abilities to guard the healer that will generate the threat (because it's healing the dps) and then it could help with dps but not as good as a pure dps. More of a hybrid, dps/guard. Would make more sence if you think about it and in the end they would be needed to help keep the healers alive who keeps everyone else alive because the mobs would have to hit the dps aswell somehow with aoe stuff or something.
First of all there seems to be 2 main opinions here.
First, the healer doesn't have good enough heals to save people and he is unable to keep people (even the mentally challenged ) to full health at all times.
Second, the healer is fine the way he is since the way he heals is challenging and more of a support heal than a big boost of life for everyone.
Well it's obvious for anyone who has play a cleric here that they both have some valid points. The way cleric seems to heal here is a much more settle one that what most people are used to from other mmos and it's obvious that new clerics will either get some getting used to or fail to notice it and just drop the class. Personally I was also having a hard time at first figuring out why my healer wasn't really able to actually heal people as it usually goes. Then after a few party runs I noticed that my heals were actually doing a much better job from what I originally thought.
It's true that the cleric here (at least with the current pagon path available) has no real life saving heals (aside the AS at 50lvl perhaps) but his little regens are secretly keeping everyone alive. Of course the secret is out once the healer dies which is the next part I'm going to cover.
The argo system is obviously not working right.
There are some posts mentioning that this makes the the adds look "smart" since they go for the healer but that reminds me funny logic of "it's not a bug, it's a feature"
I have also read that they are aware of it and working for a solution in the long run (since a lot of calibarations are needed to actually make it a fix and not a bigger bug).
In any case since the fix will take a while, the healers now are having a tough break.
While on a boss fight we take up most of the adds and if the rest of the party isn't used to this game's gameplay either, they kinda forget about us and keep it up on the boss. Of course that has as a result, death.
There are 2 more points adding on the broken argo that makes our lives hard on a boss fight.
Much like the healer, this game brings a different aspect on the party's gameplay considering most people are used to other mmos. Unlike other mmos where you may be able to say "it's ok, he is a healer, he will survive" or "If we kill the boss fast enough it will save him", in this game it doesn't quite works that way and untill the rest of the group realizes that everyone has a different job and not just hit the boss and let the healer be your pot, things will be bad.
The other thing is that aside from the horde that is after us and our non-lifesavers heals which usually require us to hit someone in order to heal ourselves, there is an other thing we have as a class-passive that gives us -40% healing on ourselves. So keeping ourselves alive is getting kinda tricky and usually only the divine AS that may saves us for a while without help. Of course all does make our job to heal the rest of the team a whole lot harder.
As a conclusion I would like to say that I personally like the healer here but I thing he could get better at his job (and able to cover for some party mistakes) with a few changes.
Perhaps a nice big aoe heal with a long cooldown or as daily power would be nice, maybe a regen that last for long (much like the astral seal) but targeted on players instead of mobs and having the heals generating no argo unless someone else already has argo on them.
Maybe with the skills of the other 2 paragon paths we will see such skills with a few less dps around.
I know it's a long post, hopefully the bold text, underlines and paragraphs will make it easier to read it.
Excellent Read! +1
Healers are just the aggro magnet of the game, no wonder everyone wants them to stay the same, the broken aggro system saves everyone else from getting beat on by mobs.
There is so much racing around and ping ponging of mobs and targets I am sure even aggro does not work properly as I scarcely see tanks being able to hold aggro against pure dps. That is no slight against the players who are noteworthy but rather a slight agains the way this game implements aggro.
I mean, for INSERT GENERIC DEITIIES sake, The fast pace of this game is fine with me but the way they do heals and control mobs IS NOT.
Am I a fan of TAB ...darn skippy.........A little wisdom also explains why the end content is a zerg fest. IMO they cannot implement real strategies for end content because the basics of the game cannot support real strategies as those we are accustomed to in games like eq1-2 SWG, which are games I come from. INSTEAD we see peopl erunning around trying to stay alive and people not assisting the dps and rather off on their own doing their own thing........and even if we did assist each other and were good team players there is no way to target the same mobs as the targetting in this game is HAMSTER.
Agree the party MUST kill adds in this game, they come in swarms endlessly in skirimishs and such, its not like wow, "kill the boss, mobs vanish" these mobs multiple and stick around after you kill the boss, not to mention there is the ltittle thing about them killing your cleric, notice your cleric running in circles while the dps often time blithely burns the boss? would be easier if you were getting healed eh
two
if they would just fix agro on clerics, one would noo even be necessary
oh yeah and if they would fix VOIP, none of this would be necessary