I dont even agree with clerics having a debuff on themselves in PvP, possibly maybe for a certain large heal maybe, like the more they use it within a certain time, the less it does. Other than that, were CLERICS WE HEAL!!!! I'd love to meet the idiot that thought this was a good idea...In all my years of mmo, this is by far the most idiotic debuff I have heard of..
I have to agree, Righteousness is pretty lame and shouldn't be in place. The only thing I see making sense about this is that we can heal outside of battle, however if we heal outside of battle that means we are wasting time and thus getting less kills. As it stands Clerics may have more gold by level 60... because it takes longer to get to level 60 to begin with! But that'll be less gold on time bases and higher leveled mobs drop more gold and those who got their sooner are thus getting more gold so by the time we have caught up on level... we're behind on gold.
Also almost every other class takes a companion pet so that they can keep themselves going and pretty much every class expect maybe Guardian Fighter can clear mobs faster than a cleric can.
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obsituusMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 11Arc User
edited May 2013
I've been away dealing with new PC build woes... So, they haven't patched this out of the game in the past couple of days? For shame!
since level 30 the only thing i do in dungeons is running around like a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, avoiding all the red circles under me, pressing one heal potion after the other and wish i could heal myself -.-
the agro/thread system is so horrible broken each mobs that spawn while fighs instantly have agro on me (cleric)...
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nerdbaneMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 18Arc User
edited May 2013
Why are you all obsessed with /debuff/ will you be happy if they nerf all of cleric healing by 40% and turn righteousness into "Buffs healing by 40% when healing other targets" ?
...Because less self-healing makes sense and it will be OK when they fix cleric threat
And you are not alone in this GWF hits faster but for less damage in unstoppable, AoE at-will damage gets reduced if you hit extra targets, etc.
Righteousness doesn't need to be a trade off, its not lets make a **** deal. It is a poorly implemented knee jerk band aid for a problem that really isn't a problem, namely gold on clerics by end game...big freaking deal. As is people will stock pile gold at end game anyway because there really isn't much to spend it on. It doesn't need a feat to reduce it's effects, then it would be a feat tax to remove a debuff that shouldn't be there in the first place, and it doesn't belong in pvp either, unless like another poster mentioned, we want to apply the same nerf to rogue dps, cw CC, and gf survivability...it is stupid and serves no purpose. This is "open beta" remove this silly mechanic. My 2 cents.
What I find really ridiculous about the "clerics didn't need to pot" whine, I leveled my CW 1-60 solo and probably used a total of 5 pots from 1-56 at which point after I consumed MAYBE 20-30 from 56-60..
Pretty much with the state cleric healing is in. You need 3/3 toughness 3/3 holy resolve is nice even though I'm 2/3 in this. Then all my rings are ancient priest rings 616 max hp defense/deflection. My neck is power/defense/deflection. I don't run a single threat reduction talent because honestly I'm going to end up tanking anyway. Soulforged enchant to give me 3 seconds of immune to damage. Pretty much I'm specced to try and live as long as possible because a dead cleric can't heal
Every patch, I hope for the words "Righteousness has been removed".. I cant see why their is any need for it. In my eyes its like giving a tank a constant +Damage taken debuff, because hes doing the tanking.
What I find really ridiculous about the "clerics didn't need to pot" whine, I leveled my CW 1-60 solo and probably used a total of 5 pots from 1-56 at which point after I consumed MAYBE 20-30 from 56-60..
I've used far and far above that and I'm 43. I think I used 20 in Mad Dragon before going, this is not fun and calling it a day.
Between the aggro issues and the righteousness, i've seriously considered shelving my cleric. The fun level isn't that high atm.
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zardoz007Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 2Arc User
Seriously? How many pots do I use in that compared to everyone else? How come when I'm specced for pure healing, I still can't heal myself very well?
I really feel like in a group, we should NOT have a debuff on ourselves, and we should NOT be the one class that has to use the MOST potions. Things get so chaotic in the later dungeons.
I just want a mechanic so that the more people you have in your group, the less the healing debuff is. I get that they don't want me to go solo a dungeon. But this is pretty detrimental to making people want to play a cleric.
I feel like I should be running 2 clerics always so I don't die... that's what I'm supposed to be for though.
Give players an appliable heal debuff so PvP takes skill to kill a cleric instead of "lol I can't heal myself, guess I die." Health stones shouldn't be the only way to heal myself, and currently, that's it.
Thoughts?
HAHA Most potions, on a cleric not by a long shot. as a GWF 1-60 I went through hundreds of potions because I tried all lairs and skirmishes and tried my best to be the instigator so I could group up mobs myself and actually do damage, Not to mention the massive potions spam just by leveling, which is insane. I have gone bankrupt buying potions so many times a GWF that I had to stop doing lairs until I built up some money and another 99 potion stack before I tried again.
My level 35 Cleric has yet to buy a single potion. My level 50 GF has never bought a single potion.
HAHAHA MOSt potions so very laughable, I went through HUNDREDS of potions l
HAHA Most potions, on a cleric not by a long shot. as a GWF 1-60 I went through hundreds of potions because I tried all lairs and skirmishes and tried my best to be the instigator so I could group up mobs myself and actually do damage, Not to mention the massive potions spam just by leveling, which is insane. I have gone bankrupt buying potions so many times a GWF that I had to stop doing lairs until I built up some money and another 99 potion stack before I tried again.
My level 35 Cleric has yet to buy a single potion. My level 50 GF has never bought a single potion.
HAHAHA MOSt potions so very laughable, I went through HUNDREDS of potions l
Clearly you've not played a cleric in epic dungeons...come back then and we'll talk.
Funny how the only Class that is made to save other people from have to use pots and is saving them money is the one that is forced by a debuff to use pots because other wise it would save them money sounds like a raw deal to me. So in the end the debuff just passes the buck to the healers and dps gets free heals and saves money.
Well, it's an MMO. Healers always get the shaft whilst dps get overloaded with skills and abilities that are overpowered even after they're nerfed.
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nvmbanelingsMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
What I find really ridiculous about the "clerics didn't need to pot" whine, I leveled my CW 1-60 solo and probably used a total of 5 pots from 1-56 at which point after I consumed MAYBE 20-30 from 56-60..
did they actually add in righteousness to make clerics use potions because people complained that a healer doesn't need to use potions whilst soloing? so they nerfed the one useful aspect of the class that makes them good while soloing and inevitably, when in parties.
what in the actual ****.
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hypercubecubeMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 6Arc User
edited May 2013
Bumping, between idiot party members, infinite heal aggro and the absolute lack of self-heals the cleric class is a wasted slot. I might as well roll a gwf and start force-tanking like everybody else
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nvmbanelingsMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Bumping, between idiot party members, infinite heal aggro and the absolute lack of self-heals the cleric class is a wasted slot. I might as well roll a gw and start force-tanking like everybody else
the cleric is really good, actually, just... not at supporting themselves, funny enough.
Bumping, between idiot party members, infinite heal aggro and the absolute lack of self-heals the cleric class is a wasted slot. I might as well roll a gwf and start force-tanking like everybody else
When you hit level 50, two clerics in a party together can tank better than a GF and keep pretty much the entire party topped up on health... It's kind of embarrassing, but Righteousness thankfully is "self-heals" only. I think that Damage Reduction should have been capped based on Armour Tier, That way Cleric's couldn't get a stupidly high defence rating from stacking Damage Reduction traits/feats/abilities.
The issue Cleric has is that healing is way too underpowered, early on it's not so much of a problem since you can kill most things with searing light and dungeons aren't excessively hard but once that doesn't cut the mustard any more... Cleric becomes HARD to solo and you get killed insanely quick in Dungeons despite being a Medium Armour class with Damage Reduction traits/abilities. Cleric's healing needs a slight buff and Righteousness needs to go. Currently I'm level 46 so I'm might in the middle of it, I'm to low a level to get Astral Shield but to high a level for Searing Light to be an effective grunt killer.
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nerdbaneMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 18Arc User
You claim it makes sense, and then never give an explanation that makes sense.
I don't believe there is a single successful MMO that has ever implemented this type of system.
because those "successful" MMOs do it my way, make healing values lowish then add increase healing by bazillion talents/skills/buffs. People are just pissed off because it's a debuff. In those MMOs healers are usually die instantly when tanks go down (or run away for an eternity if we're talking about PvP)
It's obvious they did it because they wanted this to be a "team game" and make "leader" class depend on his team and they wanted to avoid clerics face-tanking everything and we know right now 2 DCs can faceroll everything, at the first "tier" of the game with 1,5x healing (0,5 DC self-heal,1 other cleric), imagine what would happen in later tiers when have even more stats and DCs without Righteousness, groups will be 1 DC-4DPS.
Again it makes sense (not saying right or wrong) and people should just take a chill pill. Only issue is healing aggro, that is the reason why you need so much self-healing, because GFs and GWFs can't aggro enemies from you.
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noobiieeMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 29Arc User
edited May 2013
In my opinion this Rightenouss debuff or however is called is ridiculous, i haven't got to 60 yet, so i'm only going to say that my experience as a cleric in this beta i have been in 3rd weekend closed beta too is horrible, i wouldn't care about this 40% debuff if they put less aggro on us so we didn't have to pot like mad in a dungeon or whatever. In every single dungeon/skirmish i have been at it's purely i have to buy potions because i can't heal myself meanwhile the adds are on me, and the GF can't take the aggro of them off me, so only way is potting over and over and i don't want to be spending money later on epic dungeons because of this, i have sooth maxed out and doesn't make any difference at all, i hope devs look this out someday (hopefully) and either take this ridiculous debuff off or take aggro off us, they could just let the 40% debuff in PVP as reasonable, but not in PVE it has no sense. I have been playing with a CW and as experience with the cleric i have been killing adds off my group, i havent even used one potion yet in all this time with it. I don't know about this, but most people is going to stop using the cleric because of this debuff/aggro and that.. I wont quit since i enjoy being a cleric but i only hope this is fixed ~
No, I'm pissed off because as a healer, I'm forced to use the most pots/stones in a dungeon, simply because I can't heal myself as well as I can heal the ally 5 feet from me. It literally makes no sense.
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obsituusMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 11Arc User
edited May 2013
I can't believe there are people, albeit a small number, that are trying to defend the debuff. So, what you're saying is, you'd be fine if your TR or GWF had a debuff that reduced their damage by 40% when solo? I mean, that's ok right? Since it is the same as other games having low base damage and just increasing it through talents and the like to make it seem like you're getting more?
No. Just, stop.
Clerics being able to heal themselves the same way they heal others would not hurt you in a single way, so why in the world would you care if this debuff is removed? Actually, it might make your life easier since Clerics don't have to go nuts to save their own skin in high level content and can concentrate on healing you more. I mean seriously, what actual purpose does the debuff serve? It isn't like our heals are all that amazing in my experience anyway, so even if we don't heal ourselves for 40% less it isn't like we are suddenly going to become unstoppable god machines....
It is a stupid design decision and there is no way you can truly defend it. It doesn't belong and it needs to go.
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dragonslayr666Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
not going to get in depth here cause its already covered but the healing debuff on my cleric is already enough to get me killed at 25 in dungeons it needs to go.
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noobiieeMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 29Arc User
edited May 2013
the people that is actually defending this debuff havent actually played as a cleric, then we could put a 40% debuff of less dmg on tricksters when solo + the aggro, CW should have a 40% debuff on their tab skill so they can't damage much with that, GF take 40% more damage when solo and GWF have a 40% debuff on something (didnt play it yet so i dont know about this one).
I hope you guys see my point view about this ridiculous 40% debuff and hopefully devs look it out and take it off or give us something if they are going to keep it in our class, or just in pvp i dont know ._.
Cleric is already the hardest class to play in the game. Having a -40% debuff on self healing is ridiculous and serves no logical purpose in a PvE environment. I could understand if we were smashing out DPS, but were not. We heal, thats our only goal, to negate that is purely embarrasing for the game designer.
Comments
Also almost every other class takes a companion pet so that they can keep themselves going and pretty much every class expect maybe Guardian Fighter can clear mobs faster than a cleric can.
the agro/thread system is so horrible broken each mobs that spawn while fighs instantly have agro on me (cleric)...
...Because less self-healing makes sense and it will be OK when they fix cleric threat
And you are not alone in this GWF hits faster but for less damage in unstoppable, AoE at-will damage gets reduced if you hit extra targets, etc.
What I find really ridiculous about the "clerics didn't need to pot" whine, I leveled my CW 1-60 solo and probably used a total of 5 pots from 1-56 at which point after I consumed MAYBE 20-30 from 56-60..
You claim it makes sense, and then never give an explanation that makes sense.
I don't believe there is a single successful MMO that has ever implemented this type of system.
I've used far and far above that and I'm 43. I think I used 20 in Mad Dragon before going, this is not fun and calling it a day.
Between the aggro issues and the righteousness, i've seriously considered shelving my cleric. The fun level isn't that high atm.
HAHA Most potions, on a cleric not by a long shot. as a GWF 1-60 I went through hundreds of potions because I tried all lairs and skirmishes and tried my best to be the instigator so I could group up mobs myself and actually do damage, Not to mention the massive potions spam just by leveling, which is insane. I have gone bankrupt buying potions so many times a GWF that I had to stop doing lairs until I built up some money and another 99 potion stack before I tried again.
My level 35 Cleric has yet to buy a single potion. My level 50 GF has never bought a single potion.
HAHAHA MOSt potions so very laughable, I went through HUNDREDS of potions l
Clearly you've not played a cleric in epic dungeons...come back then and we'll talk.
Well, it's an MMO. Healers always get the shaft whilst dps get overloaded with skills and abilities that are overpowered even after they're nerfed.
did they actually add in righteousness to make clerics use potions because people complained that a healer doesn't need to use potions whilst soloing? so they nerfed the one useful aspect of the class that makes them good while soloing and inevitably, when in parties.
what in the actual ****.
the cleric is really good, actually, just... not at supporting themselves, funny enough.
When you hit level 50, two clerics in a party together can tank better than a GF and keep pretty much the entire party topped up on health... It's kind of embarrassing, but Righteousness thankfully is "self-heals" only. I think that Damage Reduction should have been capped based on Armour Tier, That way Cleric's couldn't get a stupidly high defence rating from stacking Damage Reduction traits/feats/abilities.
The issue Cleric has is that healing is way too underpowered, early on it's not so much of a problem since you can kill most things with searing light and dungeons aren't excessively hard but once that doesn't cut the mustard any more... Cleric becomes HARD to solo and you get killed insanely quick in Dungeons despite being a Medium Armour class with Damage Reduction traits/abilities. Cleric's healing needs a slight buff and Righteousness needs to go. Currently I'm level 46 so I'm might in the middle of it, I'm to low a level to get Astral Shield but to high a level for Searing Light to be an effective grunt killer.
because those "successful" MMOs do it my way, make healing values lowish then add increase healing by bazillion talents/skills/buffs. People are just pissed off because it's a debuff. In those MMOs healers are usually die instantly when tanks go down (or run away for an eternity if we're talking about PvP)
It's obvious they did it because they wanted this to be a "team game" and make "leader" class depend on his team and they wanted to avoid clerics face-tanking everything and we know right now 2 DCs can faceroll everything, at the first "tier" of the game with 1,5x healing (0,5 DC self-heal,1 other cleric), imagine what would happen in later tiers when have even more stats and DCs without Righteousness, groups will be 1 DC-4DPS.
Again it makes sense (not saying right or wrong) and people should just take a chill pill. Only issue is healing aggro, that is the reason why you need so much self-healing, because GFs and GWFs can't aggro enemies from you.
No, I'm pissed off because as a healer, I'm forced to use the most pots/stones in a dungeon, simply because I can't heal myself as well as I can heal the ally 5 feet from me. It literally makes no sense.
No. Just, stop.
Clerics being able to heal themselves the same way they heal others would not hurt you in a single way, so why in the world would you care if this debuff is removed? Actually, it might make your life easier since Clerics don't have to go nuts to save their own skin in high level content and can concentrate on healing you more. I mean seriously, what actual purpose does the debuff serve? It isn't like our heals are all that amazing in my experience anyway, so even if we don't heal ourselves for 40% less it isn't like we are suddenly going to become unstoppable god machines....
It is a stupid design decision and there is no way you can truly defend it. It doesn't belong and it needs to go.
I hope you guys see my point view about this ridiculous 40% debuff and hopefully devs look it out and take it off or give us something if they are going to keep it in our class, or just in pvp i dont know ._.
just remove this passive, or at least tune it down to 10%