The thing is that you can have almost every skill maxed or pretty much almost maxed up once you ding 60 and you can only use 3-4 of them at the same time + 2 dailies, which are usually no-brainers. There are guides on the forums already done by people, who already did the math way deeper and probably better than you would ever have even with unlimited respecs... Yeah, I think 6USD for a respec is way too much, but come on...
The only reason I'd be against lowering the cost is that it changes the game. Having it be free or even just cheap enough that its non-restrictive means players can (and will) respec whenever they want. Suddenly groups will expect you to have the perfect build for every single dungeon. You wind up changing specs just for a certain fight or boss.
Currently we can already do this with powers we have trained. I don't see a need to make it so we can change everything on the fly.
*All that said I do wish their was some way that players could experiment a bit. Perhaps tying the respec process to some sort of training ground or something. I'm not against players testing stuff out or trying new things. I just don't want to see the new standard to be min/maxing before each fight. As it is in some other games.*
That is a very reasonable opinion; I understand what you are saying- I don't particularly agree that things would pan out that way since it hasn't been like that in other mmos I've played, but nonetheless I can feel for your concern.
It makes it a pain to try different spec and to min max your character. If you make a leveling spec or PVP spec for leveling up but want to PvE at 60, it leaves you screwed and force to pay if you want to have an optimal spec. I mean you could do the convert AD to Zen but the rate is abysmal. And if you want to respec multiple times to attempt different specs to see what you prefer or what is best, you end up spending all your AD on respecs.
The respec cost in this game is the worst I have ever seen in any mmo so far. Luckily you cant bork your toon that much in Neverwinter.
The thing is that you can have almost every skill maxed or pretty much almost maxed up once you ding 60 and you can only use 3-4 of them at the same time + 2 dailies, which are usually no-brainers. There are guides on the forums already done by people, who already did the math way deeper and probably better than you would ever have even with unlimited respecs... Yeah, I think 6USD for a respec is way too much, but come on...
Regards,
Kalantris
There are a few builds on the forums. None of them that I have read involve much math (don't get me wrong, bravo to those who posted your builds, I loved reading them and think they are great!). However, its hard to even do any math since much of what is going on under the hood is either hidden or possibly bugged.
Regardless, again I can tell that you just don't understand the core reason why many think a respec is expensive. There is a certain game culture in all the other AAA mmos -even the non sub ones- that has people changing and experimenting with builds regularly. You may see $6, we see potentially 100s or thousands of dollars just for respeccing which seems totally crazy.
I know one of the people that has posted a build has resorted to leveling another character of the same class just to try out a different build; totally crazy stuff. The other build posters (that I read) lamented being shackled by the high respec prices.
Despite the insistence of some that builds are so clear cut that it is a "no-brainer", thankfully for this game I see a plethora of build potential for each class, and expect this to deepen as new classes and paragon paths are released.
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bpphantomMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
Nope. I do think it should be available for gold as well though.
- bpphantom
Grace, Tiefling Devoted Cleric
"Do what you can, with what you have, where you are. Then leave the rest to Batman."
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elawynMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
The respec cost in this game is the worst I have ever seen in any mmo so far. Luckily you cant bork your toon that much in Neverwinter.
You never played UO then. There was NO respec. You could only change your character skills by doing them in game. It could take months of 'skill grinding' to do so. Sometimes you could spend an entire evening just to shift it ONE percentage point.
respeccing should be considered a luxury item, used only as a last resort. Not as a free substitute to turn your character into the 'flavor of the hour' over and over.
You never played UO then. There was NO respec. You could only change your character skills by doing them in game. It could take months of 'skill grinding' to do so. Sometimes you could spend an entire evening just to shift it ONE percentage point.
respeccing should be considered a luxury item, used only as a last resort. Not as a free substitute to turn your character into the 'flavor of the hour' over and over.
I remember having to load my games by cassette tape, these darn SSDs what a luxury. We should all go back to tape right?
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crysidiaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 17Arc User
Not all of us are rolling in money to spend on things like respec which maybe I'd like to do many times to try different things. That would total a large sum of money if I wanted to respec say even 10 times just to try different build and maybe switch from PvE back to PvP. That's $60 dollars I could use somewhere more important but just because I don't have the money to throw at the screen doesn't mean I shouldn't be allowed to try different things on my character. In WoW, I probably respec 10 times a month or more based on what my group needs. Thats $15 for that whole month to get equal access to everything in the game. Every MMO I've ever played (Payed and F2P) has had ingame currency respecs. And most of them were relatively inexpensive because trying new things on your character is something that most of everyone likes to do. I don't think you should give people access to only part of their character. I think it's utterly ridiculous to have to pay real money to change one of the most basic aspects of your character.
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crysidiaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 17Arc User
You never played UO then. There was NO respec. You could only change your character skills by doing them in game. It could take months of 'skill grinding' to do so. Sometimes you could spend an entire evening just to shift it ONE percentage point.
respeccing should be considered a luxury item, used only as a last resort. Not as a free substitute to turn your character into the 'flavor of the hour' over and over.
So being able to be as good as you can be is a bad thing? Maybe we should make all the MMO's have no respec and give people access to half their character. I think everyone would love that. There's a reason MMO's allow respecs. They want people to experience the game fully and not be stuck with playing the same thing forever. Surely you don't want to only use one build forever on your character.
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crysidiaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 17Arc User
Basically entirely different power and feat distribution (spent by you) that you can switch to when you feel like a change of pace for your class (make switching lock out all of your powers for 3 minutes).
Make it a max of 3-5 and charge $10 to unlock 'em (and lower respecs to $4).
Basically entirely different power and feat distribution (spent by you) that you can switch to when you feel like a change of pace for your class (make switching lock out all of your powers for 3 minutes).
Make it a max of 3-5 and charge $10 to unlock 'em (and lower respecs to $4).
You never played UO then. There was NO respec. You could only change your character skills by doing them in game. It could take months of 'skill grinding' to do so. Sometimes you could spend an entire evening just to shift it ONE percentage point.
respeccing should be considered a luxury item, used only as a last resort. Not as a free substitute to turn your character into the 'flavor of the hour' over and over.
THIS IS NOT UO. <--that's a period. These luxury items are broken. where is my refund?
Reading through this thread makes me wonder how many people actually play the game long enough to get an actual feel for it before they come to the forums complaining about something they don't like. This isn't a min-max type game where you have to have the best gear or the perfect specialization in order to complete dungeon or compete in pvp. In fact, by the time you earn all of your power points by level 60, you have points in almost everything, making builds not all that different from each other. If someone doesn't want to spend money to respec, then they aren't going to notice a significant difference in gameplay.
To sum it up: This isn't a min-max type game, and those that don't play the game don't realize this, so they'll continue coming to the forums whining about things that would be clear to them if they'd just play the game for a while longer.
I don't get why people HAVE to plan out a build in the first place? Where is the fun in picking someone else's build and plugging it into your own? Where is the 'figure it out yourself' mentality? Where is the 'it's better to explore'? Mentality? Where is the 'make your own way?" mentality?
A $6 respec prohibits this.
I don't want to have to plug in a 'certain' build that pleases some number cruncher/GS checking butt clown that dictates how *I* should play. I want to play to have fun. I want to be able to make mistakes, since that is how I learn, I want to go back, with a better knowledge and understanding of what I want to choose to do with myself and make a finer tuned character, BASED ON MY OWN DECISIONS BASED ON TRIAL AND ERROR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Why don't people get that $6 a pop on a respec not only stop gaps this, but really hits the spirit of the D&D world in the jimmies????
Defend $6 all you want, it DOESN'T MAKE IT RIGHT!!!!!!!! It should cost in game gold, be freely given at level 20, 40, 60 and then cost 1g each time you wanna respec. This helps people who made mistakes in building their character, and allows them to flesh out paths that they think for themselves and gives PW a greater reputation.
Reading through this thread makes me wonder how many people actually play the game long enough to get an actual feel for it before they come to the forums complaining about something they don't like. This isn't a min-max type game where you have to have the best gear or the perfect specialization in order to complete dungeon or compete in pvp. In fact, by the time you earn all of your power points by level 60, you have points in almost everything, making builds not all that different from each other. If someone doesn't want to spend money to respec, then they aren't going to notice a significant difference in gameplay.
To sum it up: This isn't a min-max type game, and those that don't play the game don't realize this, so they'll continue coming to the forums whining about things that would be clear to them if they'd just play the game for a while longer.
It blows my mind how people can say things like this, and that makes it okay to not try and be the best they can. I could study for 3 hours but I don't need to- to pass- just to pass, I don't study at all and i'll get a 2. That's why american schools are so far behind, people like you that only need to pass, instead of actually trying to be your best. NOT THE BEST, your best. It's acceptable to be average or below if you aren't trying?
I have a 44 rogue and 42 CW since may 1st. I am playing the game. I am paying for things too. I actually try to max my play ability, the fact that you don't ---doesn't make me a whiner.
60cw 51tr 16dc 5gf
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crysidiaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 17Arc User
But if you know the skill is PvE, with buffs or debuffs to threat and the like, and you know your going to do PvP, then why would you take those powers and feats? You know your end game isnt PvE, why take PvE powers? Same holds true for the opposite feature.
Perhaps people like to do both? Or maybe you want to level with one and do the other as endgame? Maybe you want to experience the whole game and not just half of it?
What should be payed for is fluff stuff, appearance items, mounts, quality of life thingymabobs, player housing, and more.
I know this is a heated topic, but honestly, restricting people's ability to comfortably play a game in today's society will only serve as the game's eventual downfall.
Pay for a cosmetic respec? of course!
Pay for an ability respec? Ridiculous! No!
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crysidiaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 17Arc User
Reading through this thread makes me wonder how many people actually play the game long enough to get an actual feel for it before they come to the forums complaining about something they don't like. This isn't a min-max type game where you have to have the best gear or the perfect specialization in order to complete dungeon or compete in pvp. In fact, by the time you earn all of your power points by level 60, you have points in almost everything, making builds not all that different from each other. If someone doesn't want to spend money to respec, then they aren't going to notice a significant difference in gameplay.
To sum it up: This isn't a min-max type game, and those that don't play the game don't realize this, so they'll continue coming to the forums whining about things that would be clear to them if they'd just play the game for a while longer.
Every game is min/maxing or not if you decide to play it like that. And even if you don't min/max, why do I have to be locked into my first decisions and never get to experience the stuff I didn't pick the first time? I want to experience the entire and not just parts of it. It's like saying you have to pay us to see everything or try something different than what you decided to pick while leveling. Pretty much any MMO becomes a min/maxing game for people who want to be the best at their class. I don't think that just because you play one way that other have to abide by how you think the game is or should be.
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mutharexMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
What should be payed for is fluff stuff, appearance items, mounts, quality of life thingymabobs, player housing, and more.
I know this is a heated topic, but honestly, restricting people's ability to comfortably play a game in today's society will only serve as the game's eventual downfall.
Pay for a cosmetic respec? of course!
Pay for an ability respec? Ridiculous! No!
Most if not all F2P games (LOTRO,EQ2, TOR without counting the full F2P games) monetize things like bags, character slots, races, respecs. Hell some even make you pay for hotbars....
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elawynMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
So being able to be as good as you can be is a bad thing? Maybe we should make all the MMO's have no respec and give people access to half their character. I think everyone would love that. There's a reason MMO's allow respecs. They want people to experience the game fully and not be stuck with playing the same thing forever. Surely you don't want to only use one build forever on your character.
Only if you believe you can 'win' an MMO. Then you are only 'as good as you can be at respeccing'. Character builds are, indeed, an integral part of this genre, that's why there are so many threads in the class forums with them. Sure, some folks find that aspect a great deal of fun and very challenging. Everyone else seems to simply want someone else to do all that work and then get a free respec to create a clone of that other players hard work because it's the 'flavor of the day'. Some of them (and no, I'm not accusing anyone here) see a bug with stacked feats and want a free respec to get in to take advantage before it's fixed.
I don't know whether it's a generational thing or paradigm thing (or some of both). This attitude that everything should be free and with instant gratification certainly seems to be the former. Unfortunately, that's not the primary target audience for this genre, those are the folks that will min/max and powerlevel to the 'top' in just a few days, then fill the forums up with incessant whining for 'more more more and for free!'. No amount of added content will keep them satisfied, this is a fundamental fact. Hundreds (if not thousands) of development and testing hours for 'end game' content will be burned through by this tiny proportion of the player base on the same day it's released. Then they'll all be back whining for 'more more more'.
As for my character, I *might* respec her once, maybe twice. Still got about 11 levels to go tho. Since I rarely, if ever, do PvP, then changing her to the 'flavor of the day' holds absolutely no interest for me. Different mindset/paradigm you see, I'm one of those folks that doesn't get bored easily and I can always make my own 'amusement' in game. There are dungeon's I haven't explored, foundry quests I haven't done and I'm in no hurry to see everything.
What should be payed for is fluff stuff, appearance items, mounts, quality of life thingymabobs, player housing, and more.
I know this is a heated topic, but honestly, restricting people's ability to comfortably play a game in today's society will only serve as the game's eventual downfall.
Pay for a cosmetic respec? of course!
Pay for an ability respec? Ridiculous! No!
This is exactly what F2P MMO's should be. Have a bunch of really attractive but equal items in the store. So people get cool stuff if they want to support the company like Riot does with League of Legends and skins. If you make stuff that is basic parts of a game then your going to get complainers and if you don't fix it you'll lose a lot of potential paying people for a game they would love other wise.
some ppl seriously defending respecs for real money? wow ... you are the guys who make the games worse and worse very year.
i am a min maxer. i rerolled my thief at level 40. i respeced my second thief at level 60 3 times.
now i rerolled again, actually at level 20, to get around this respec for RM ****.
Hell, in Daoc i respeced once a week. As long as they cost 6 € im not going to get old in NW.
Perhaps people like to do both? Or maybe you want to level with one and do the other as endgame? Maybe you want to experience the whole game and not just half of it?
The idea that there is one cookie cutter pvp build or pve build is bogus. When there is a guide up somewhere from a smart person that tries, rather than a "computer-chair-quarterback" that thinks because they say so- there is no reason to respec -- I might say, you're right because so-and-so simulated all these builds and that's what I should go by. There are absolutely no established or trusted sites posting reference points in relation to this game. The only way you can even attempt is by doing and trying to get a feel.
These people are too happy just playing to understand what it means to really get into a game.
I don't get why people HAVE to plan out a build in the first place? Where is the fun in picking someone else's build and plugging it into your own? Where is the 'figure it out yourself' mentality? Where is the 'it's better to explore'? Mentality? Where is the 'make your own way?" mentality?
A $6 respec prohibits this.
I don't want to have to plug in a 'certain' build that pleases some number cruncher/GS checking butt clown that dictates how *I* should play. I want to play to have fun. I want to be able to make mistakes, since that is how I learn, I want to go back, with a better knowledge and understanding of what I want to choose to do with myself and make a finer tuned character, BASED ON MY OWN DECISIONS BASED ON TRIAL AND ERROR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Why don't people get that $6 a pop on a respec not only stop gaps this, but really hits the spirit of the D&D world in the jimmies????
Defend $6 all you want, it DOESN'T MAKE IT RIGHT!!!!!!!! It should cost in game gold, be freely given at level 20, 40, 60 and then cost 1g each time you wanna respec. This helps people who made mistakes in building their character, and allows them to flesh out paths that they think for themselves and gives PW a greater reputation.
Ok i stopped reading after the first line. In this game you have to plan out a build to avoid paying $6 to respec. If you dont want to plan out a build then dont, but dont come to the forums *****ing about how it's too ****ing hard to plan where you're gonna put your next power point. Dumb ****.
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mutharexMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Ok i stopped reading after the first line. In this game you have to plan out a build to avoid paying $6 to respec. If you dont want to plan out a build then dont, but dont come to the forums *****ing about how it's too ****ing hard to plan where you're gonna put your next power point. Dumb ****.
Without counting that you can fully respec Feats (that define how you class works more than powers) for AD any time.
The 6$ is a full respec that includes Powers and Stats
Comments
LOVE it! Lol, although I think your humor will be lost on the masses
Regards,
Kalantris
Many of us spend our whole lives trying to answer this
That is a very reasonable opinion; I understand what you are saying- I don't particularly agree that things would pan out that way since it hasn't been like that in other mmos I've played, but nonetheless I can feel for your concern.
The respec cost in this game is the worst I have ever seen in any mmo so far. Luckily you cant bork your toon that much in Neverwinter.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
There are a few builds on the forums. None of them that I have read involve much math (don't get me wrong, bravo to those who posted your builds, I loved reading them and think they are great!). However, its hard to even do any math since much of what is going on under the hood is either hidden or possibly bugged.
Regardless, again I can tell that you just don't understand the core reason why many think a respec is expensive. There is a certain game culture in all the other AAA mmos -even the non sub ones- that has people changing and experimenting with builds regularly. You may see $6, we see potentially 100s or thousands of dollars just for respeccing which seems totally crazy.
I know one of the people that has posted a build has resorted to leveling another character of the same class just to try out a different build; totally crazy stuff. The other build posters (that I read) lamented being shackled by the high respec prices.
Despite the insistence of some that builds are so clear cut that it is a "no-brainer", thankfully for this game I see a plethora of build potential for each class, and expect this to deepen as new classes and paragon paths are released.
Grace, Tiefling Devoted Cleric
"Do what you can, with what you have, where you are. Then leave the rest to Batman."
You never played UO then. There was NO respec. You could only change your character skills by doing them in game. It could take months of 'skill grinding' to do so. Sometimes you could spend an entire evening just to shift it ONE percentage point.
respeccing should be considered a luxury item, used only as a last resort. Not as a free substitute to turn your character into the 'flavor of the hour' over and over.
I remember having to load my games by cassette tape, these darn SSDs what a luxury. We should all go back to tape right?
Reasonable argument.
Basically entirely different power and feat distribution (spent by you) that you can switch to when you feel like a change of pace for your class (make switching lock out all of your powers for 3 minutes).
Make it a max of 3-5 and charge $10 to unlock 'em (and lower respecs to $4).
That would be an awesome idea.
THIS IS NOT UO. <--that's a period. These luxury items are broken. where is my refund?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZ15vCGuvH0
To sum it up: This isn't a min-max type game, and those that don't play the game don't realize this, so they'll continue coming to the forums whining about things that would be clear to them if they'd just play the game for a while longer.
A $6 respec prohibits this.
I don't want to have to plug in a 'certain' build that pleases some number cruncher/GS checking butt clown that dictates how *I* should play. I want to play to have fun. I want to be able to make mistakes, since that is how I learn, I want to go back, with a better knowledge and understanding of what I want to choose to do with myself and make a finer tuned character, BASED ON MY OWN DECISIONS BASED ON TRIAL AND ERROR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Why don't people get that $6 a pop on a respec not only stop gaps this, but really hits the spirit of the D&D world in the jimmies????
Defend $6 all you want, it DOESN'T MAKE IT RIGHT!!!!!!!! It should cost in game gold, be freely given at level 20, 40, 60 and then cost 1g each time you wanna respec. This helps people who made mistakes in building their character, and allows them to flesh out paths that they think for themselves and gives PW a greater reputation.
It blows my mind how people can say things like this, and that makes it okay to not try and be the best they can. I could study for 3 hours but I don't need to- to pass- just to pass, I don't study at all and i'll get a 2. That's why american schools are so far behind, people like you that only need to pass, instead of actually trying to be your best. NOT THE BEST, your best. It's acceptable to be average or below if you aren't trying?
I have a 44 rogue and 42 CW since may 1st. I am playing the game. I am paying for things too. I actually try to max my play ability, the fact that you don't ---doesn't make me a whiner.
Keep Bags, levels, content access, RESPECS, etc etc etc. FREE !
What should be payed for is fluff stuff, appearance items, mounts, quality of life thingymabobs, player housing, and more.
I know this is a heated topic, but honestly, restricting people's ability to comfortably play a game in today's society will only serve as the game's eventual downfall.
Pay for a cosmetic respec? of course!
Pay for an ability respec? Ridiculous! No!
Most if not all F2P games (LOTRO,EQ2, TOR without counting the full F2P games) monetize things like bags, character slots, races, respecs. Hell some even make you pay for hotbars....
Only if you believe you can 'win' an MMO. Then you are only 'as good as you can be at respeccing'. Character builds are, indeed, an integral part of this genre, that's why there are so many threads in the class forums with them. Sure, some folks find that aspect a great deal of fun and very challenging. Everyone else seems to simply want someone else to do all that work and then get a free respec to create a clone of that other players hard work because it's the 'flavor of the day'. Some of them (and no, I'm not accusing anyone here) see a bug with stacked feats and want a free respec to get in to take advantage before it's fixed.
I don't know whether it's a generational thing or paradigm thing (or some of both). This attitude that everything should be free and with instant gratification certainly seems to be the former. Unfortunately, that's not the primary target audience for this genre, those are the folks that will min/max and powerlevel to the 'top' in just a few days, then fill the forums up with incessant whining for 'more more more and for free!'. No amount of added content will keep them satisfied, this is a fundamental fact. Hundreds (if not thousands) of development and testing hours for 'end game' content will be burned through by this tiny proportion of the player base on the same day it's released. Then they'll all be back whining for 'more more more'.
As for my character, I *might* respec her once, maybe twice. Still got about 11 levels to go tho. Since I rarely, if ever, do PvP, then changing her to the 'flavor of the day' holds absolutely no interest for me. Different mindset/paradigm you see, I'm one of those folks that doesn't get bored easily and I can always make my own 'amusement' in game. There are dungeon's I haven't explored, foundry quests I haven't done and I'm in no hurry to see everything.
i am a min maxer. i rerolled my thief at level 40. i respeced my second thief at level 60 3 times.
now i rerolled again, actually at level 20, to get around this respec for RM ****.
Hell, in Daoc i respeced once a week. As long as they cost 6 € im not going to get old in NW.
**** GREEDY COMPANYS!!!!!!!!!!
The idea that there is one cookie cutter pvp build or pve build is bogus. When there is a guide up somewhere from a smart person that tries, rather than a "computer-chair-quarterback" that thinks because they say so- there is no reason to respec -- I might say, you're right because so-and-so simulated all these builds and that's what I should go by. There are absolutely no established or trusted sites posting reference points in relation to this game. The only way you can even attempt is by doing and trying to get a feel.
These people are too happy just playing to understand what it means to really get into a game.
Ok i stopped reading after the first line. In this game you have to plan out a build to avoid paying $6 to respec. If you dont want to plan out a build then dont, but dont come to the forums *****ing about how it's too ****ing hard to plan where you're gonna put your next power point. Dumb ****.
Without counting that you can fully respec Feats (that define how you class works more than powers) for AD any time.
The 6$ is a full respec that includes Powers and Stats