I have no problem with $6 for a respec. I think its an ok price for it and would be fine... if the game was final. This isn't the first game to charge for a respec and it won't be the last. Some games charge a heck of a lot more than $6 to respec. Lots of games have less than optimal builds that people shouldn't really use.
.
What games charge more than $6 for a respec and why does having an overpriced service in another game justify cursing this good game with the same thing? Every other mmo I have played that was worth respeccing in had free respecs, even if they had no monthly sub.
If they actually made it completely clear that you had to pay to respec at the start and if you could see paragon powers before you started putting in points, I might think of it as acceptable. If you cant see Paragon powers before you start putting in points, you cant have a build figured out before hand because you don't know half of you abilities. Also, if they weren't planning on changing the powers. What if they nerf something and you don't want it anymore? Then you have to pay to get rid of it.
It's clear from the start if you look at your character sheet on the correct tabs. It's not clear that the cost goes up as you level unless you check it twice at different levels.
That being said, you're totally right on the paragon's, but since there's only one tree I guess it's not an issue yet. It does make future 'balance' changes rather more troubling. I'm guessing free respec tokens, but honestly it would probably be less work to just make respec less of an issue. I'll wait to see how they handle that to make judgments.
MoF/Thaum CWSS/Thaum CWIV/Protector GFSW/Combat HRSM/Destroyer GWFWK/Executioner TRDO/Faithful DC
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okottekonekoMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
chaging for respec isnt that bad when you can convert AD to zen, by anything more then $2 for respec is too much.
compared to most micro transaction funded games, including crytics other titles the prices on this one is one of the most outrageously priced malls, they need to rethink the definition of micro transaction because they obviously have it wrong, i can buy full games for the price of half the stuff on the market.
I think the problem with paying to respec is that it encourages "cookie cutter" builds, discouraging experimentation with stat min/max putting a bit of wall between one of the most interesting aspects of playing a RPG.
Id prefer to pay for either another spec template that could be toggled to, or have said second template and pay to switch between.
Paying to redo your spec feels like a punishment for choosing a sub-optimal build.
Cake is a lie, Pi is a constant.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
My problem is there is alot of misleading signs and figures in the trees.
For example,
The arrows that stem from the heroic feats on to the Paragons make it seem like you need the feat that corresponds to the arrow to reach the paragon tree of your choosing.
The paragons also say "not yet available" leaving you clueless about weather or not you need the paragons prior when in actually you just need 5 more points spent.
Aswell as the powers and whatnot that say things like "5% more chance for..." without ever giving you the base value
What games charge more than $6 for a respec and why does having an overpriced service in another game justify cursing this good game with the same thing? Every other mmo I have played that was worth respeccing in had free respecs, even if they had no monthly sub.
I have no problem with $6 for a respec. I think its an ok price for it and would be fine... if the game was final. This isn't the first game to charge for a respec and it won't be the last. Some games charge a heck of a lot more than $6 to respec. Lots of games have less than optimal builds that people shouldn't really use.
The problem (imo) is that the game is so new that many players don't what works and what doesn't. Older games you can just search a bit and find detailed builds. But of course this is still beta where powers could change drastically. If a power/feat doesn't work and someone puts points in it they will want a respec. If someone avoided that power/feat because it was broke, they might want a respec when it gets fixed. Not to mention things not added yet.
Overall I think they should take the $6 price tag off until they are confident enough to say the game is no longer in Beta. That'll give current players time to figure stuff out. And hopefully by then new players will have more information available. Again, just my opinion.
This is the one problem I have with there not being any given at all. It is still beta and things could change not to mention it isn;t clear hoiw some skills/feats will wortk until you try them out or if they'll even fit your playstyle. Not to mention there is only one paragon available for classes at this point.
I would hope once any majpor changes or tweaks are made and especially after more paragons are made available there would at least be an offer of one free respec. May be fleeting but honestly I think it would be detrimental to them more than anything. It's their game though so whatevs...
I don't expect or blame them for not having "unlimited free" respecs though. There are a lot of issues being brought up that could have a happy medium that benefits them as a company as well as players overall.
of course started gameing long before they even had ' respecs ' . Only way to change your character back in the day was to start over . And it took a lot longer to grind a character back then ,
The fact that you HAVE to buy to respec your character is ridiculous. Even GW2 understood that people LIKE TO EXPERIMENT and try out different builds.
Like clerics. There is theory that crits are better, that power is better, that recovery should reign supreme. What if I wanted to take another route? $6. And if it doesn't work? I'M PENALIZED! $6. I try something else....don't like it. NOW I'M PENALIZED AGAIN!!! $6.
Let's say that I find a build I LIKE that involves an ability. It works good, it works a little too good, simplifying dungeons to a point that healing is too powerful and PWE comes along and nerfs it, rending the ability worthless, pointless and the build I had centered around it NO LONGER WORKS. Now I need to find something else that works.
Guess what.....$6, because PWE changed something. Not my fault this time BUT I STILL HAVE TO PAY FOR IT.
No. Respecs should be for free. Sure, spend AD on paragon/feats, but not for powers. That is beyond stupid. I shouldn't have to pay, noone should. Experiementation should be encouraged, not having a cookie cutter build so I can pump out minimum numbers that some D-bag Guild Leader has predetermined I have to meet in order to make the grade.
Min/maxing has its place, but not in a D&D based game. Nor does it belong in an MMO, period. If Elitist guilds want it, sure, but that shouldn't factor down into the general populace.
This is yet another facet of PWE not being confident enough in their game to make ESSENTIAL game things free (costing gold or straight up AD) in order to purchase.
And yes, PWE, delete these threads, but I will keep saying it over and over until you get it in your head. You are not CONFIDENT enough in your game if you have to bully people into purchasing in order to Pay to WIN
Actually that confused me at first too Shift. Tricky to decide what's 'best', so I put a few points into every power to try them out. Didn't put me on great footing for end content lol. I think by the time I'm sixty I can fix it, but I'd like to fix a few mistakes before then since I get the feeling it will hinder me a bit once dungeons get a bit tougher.
EDIT:
We don't know how Cryptic will handle balance changes vs. respec's so it's pointless to worry about that right now. It's a separate issue from the general cost of respec's.
MoF/Thaum CWSS/Thaum CWIV/Protector GFSW/Combat HRSM/Destroyer GWFWK/Executioner TRDO/Faithful DC
of course started gameing long before they even had ' respecs ' . Only way to change your character back in the day was to start over . And it took a lot longer to grind a character back then ,
So did I, of course, I like advancements and improvements.
of course started gameing long before they even had ' respecs ' . Only way to change your character back in the day was to start over . And it took a lot longer to grind a character back then ,
Good thing we're now in the 21st century and don't all get around with horse and buggy. I mean.. Back in the day that was the only way to get from point a to point b. Other than walking. Hey there's an idea...
of course started gameing long before they even had ' respecs ' . Only way to change your character back in the day was to start over . And it took a lot longer to grind a character back then ,
I will never understand why someone always has to go there. You do realize probably a sizable portion you're taking to did as well don't you? I would bet this game in general probably tends to have an older crowd than whet you see in your average mmo to begin with.
Cryptic's history has been to give out respecs when they change powers. Until it's shown that they're not going to do it here, complaining about the changes is moot.
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
Cryptic's history has been to give out respecs when they change powers. Until it's shown that they're not going to do it here, complaining about the changes is moot.
What about all the Feats, Powers and Heroic points that arent working. Ask a guardian how well the +AC feats are working, also ask them how well their +40% threat is working. Ask a CW how well their group heal damage ability is working. I know there are others but I'm not spending any AD or Zen to respec because feats/powers/heroics isn't working.
Open the Launcher. Click Options near the top. Check Disable on-demand patching. This will download another couple of gigs.
I will never understand why someone always has to go there. You do realize probably a sizable portion you're taking to did as well don't you? I would bet this game in general probably tends to have an older crowd than whet you see in your average mmo to begin with.
I'd take that action. Zone chat says this player-base is no different than any other MMORPG's.
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
I'd take that action. Zone chat says this player-base is no different than any other MMORPG's.
Not everyone babbles away in zone chat just like not everyone uses these forums. You're going to have your usual rigamarole in every game anymore far as that goes.
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crysidiaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 17Arc User
of course started gameing long before they even had ' respecs ' . Only way to change your character back in the day was to start over . And it took a lot longer to grind a character back then ,
Just because it started in one way doesnt make that the best way.
I still had 10 charges on my ' respect ' tool when they shut down SWG .
Respecing is an easy way out for people that don't want to or can't read and figure out what skills they want while leveling up . No respect truly makes it ' your ' character . You grow and have a feel for that toon . Putting in someone elses spec and playing ? That's why people get bored and move on . You are missing the whole point or playing a character . This isn't an x=box game where we are all playing lara croft , this is suppose to be your toon . And it wont be of your constantly respecting to what others think is best.
just my opion , but it works for me .
Because you copied someone else's build and call it good?
Some people like to try to think differently than standard cookie cutters. Which takes experimentation and lots of 'respeccing' to find what they like. Not just following someone else's formula.
I tend to like to discover for myself what works and what doesn't. Except i can't because I can't afford the 229k AD to buy 600 ZEN. This is how you shoot yourself in the foot.
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nugrohowibMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
my 2 cent, compared to ANY f2p mmo i play in the last 3-4 yrs,that 6 usd honestly actually kinda cheap. there at least 2 f2p mmo that charging respec for the cost equal to 15-20 usd, thankfully those 2 game full of gold seller who sold it in ah, causing the cost cheaper and easier to purchase in game currency.plus the publisher most of the time giving a free reset if they a changing the talent or implemented new level cap and usually up to the current max cap there will be 1 free reset scroll on new player package. dont get me wrong, i honestly prefer it if any f2p mmorpg goes with free cost to respec talent. i like to respect to meet any challange i meet, i like to experiment with stuff etc. but hey guess is about making choice for now.
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rapticorMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,078Arc User
Respecing is an easy way out for people that don't want to or can't read and figure out what skills they want while leveling up . No respect truly makes it ' your ' character . You grow and have a feel for that toon . Putting in someone elses spec and playing ? That's why people get bored and move on . You are missing the whole point or playing a character . This isn't an x=box game where we are all playing lara croft , this is suppose to be your toon . And it wont be of your constantly respecting to what others think is best.
So what about missing paragon paths where we don't even know what they'll be? Yeah obviously lack of planning (and reading) on the players part.
I still had 10 charges on my ' respect ' tool when they shut down SWG .
Respecing is an easy way out for people that don't want to or can't read and figure out what skills they want while leveling up . No respect truly makes it ' your ' character . You grow and have a feel for that toon . Putting in someone elses spec and playing ? That's why people get bored and move on . You are missing the whole point or playing a character . This isn't an x=box game where we are all playing lara croft , this is suppose to be your toon . And it wont be of your constantly respecting to what others think is best.
just my opion , but it works for me .
but it doesn't work this way. people find streams of healers then ask them about their build. the person watching then copies it down and just uses it because it's 6$. Why experiment with a different build when you know the one you are watching works.
Open the Launcher. Click Options near the top. Check Disable on-demand patching. This will download another couple of gigs.
So what about missing paragon paths where we don't even know what they'll be? Yeah obviously lack of planning (and reading) on the players part.
And when they get put in, there'll most likely be a free respec handed out.
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
my 2 cent, compared to ANY f2p mmo i play in the last 3-4 yrs,that 6 usd honestly actually kinda cheap. there at least 2 f2p mmo that charging respec for the cost equal to 15-20 usd, thankfully those 2 game full of gold seller who sold it in ah, causing the cost cheaper and easier to purchase in game currency.plus the publisher most of the time giving a free reset if they a changing the talent or implemented new level cap and usually up to the current max cap there will be 1 free reset scroll on new player package. dont get me wrong, i honestly prefer it if any f2p mmorpg goes with free cost to respec talent. i like to respect to meet any challange i meet, i like to experiment with stuff etc. but hey guess is about making choice for now.
There is not a single MMO I have seen that makes you BUY respecs. EQ all you had to do was buy your spells. You could change, almost on the fly, at any given time.
In Lotro, all you had to do was visit a Bard.
in Warframe, all you had to do was change up your mods.
In Torchlight 2, you could undo your last 3 points, and after the modder came out, all you had to do was buy a respec on the merchants.
Rift allowed you to not only mess around, but gave you 3 trees in order to switch builds on the fly.
GW2 all you had to pay was 3s50c and I could switch traits around all day. This game is also F2P and I would have said, before PW, that they had teh WORST cash shop model ever, but PW is actually worse. If this game didn't play better, I wouldn't play either.
Nope, not thinking of any game I have played, F2P or otherwise that hasn't allowed players to respec for either in game cash, or for free. Mainly in game cash.
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nugrohowibMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
There is not a single MMO I have seen that makes you BUY respecs. EQ all you had to do was buy your spells. You could change, almost on the fly, at any given time.
In Lotro, all you had to do was visit a Bard.
in Warframe, all you had to do was change up your mods.
In Torchlight 2, you could undo your last 3 points, and after the modder came out, all you had to do was buy a respec on the merchants.
Rift allowed you to not only mess around, but gave you 3 trees in order to switch builds on the fly.
GW2 all you had to pay was 3s50c and I could switch traits around all day. This game is also F2P and I would have said, before PW, that they had teh WORST cash shop model ever, but PW is actually worse. If this game didn't play better, I wouldn't play either.
Nope, not thinking of any game I have played, F2P or otherwise that hasn't allowed players to respec for either in game cash, or for free. Mainly in game cash.
Comments
Btw, expect this thread to be closed, can't have anyone speaking out against the almighty cash shop on these forums!
CS issue? Check this thread first! | Reporting exploits: Done Right
What games charge more than $6 for a respec and why does having an overpriced service in another game justify cursing this good game with the same thing? Every other mmo I have played that was worth respeccing in had free respecs, even if they had no monthly sub.
It's clear from the start if you look at your character sheet on the correct tabs. It's not clear that the cost goes up as you level unless you check it twice at different levels.
That being said, you're totally right on the paragon's, but since there's only one tree I guess it's not an issue yet. It does make future 'balance' changes rather more troubling. I'm guessing free respec tokens, but honestly it would probably be less work to just make respec less of an issue. I'll wait to see how they handle that to make judgments.
compared to most micro transaction funded games, including crytics other titles the prices on this one is one of the most outrageously priced malls, they need to rethink the definition of micro transaction because they obviously have it wrong, i can buy full games for the price of half the stuff on the market.
Id prefer to pay for either another spec template that could be toggled to, or have said second template and pay to switch between.
Paying to redo your spec feels like a punishment for choosing a sub-optimal build.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
For example,
The arrows that stem from the heroic feats on to the Paragons make it seem like you need the feat that corresponds to the arrow to reach the paragon tree of your choosing.
The paragons also say "not yet available" leaving you clueless about weather or not you need the paragons prior when in actually you just need 5 more points spent.
Aswell as the powers and whatnot that say things like "5% more chance for..." without ever giving you the base value
Path of Exile = no respecs.
This is the one problem I have with there not being any given at all. It is still beta and things could change not to mention it isn;t clear hoiw some skills/feats will wortk until you try them out or if they'll even fit your playstyle. Not to mention there is only one paragon available for classes at this point.
I would hope once any majpor changes or tweaks are made and especially after more paragons are made available there would at least be an offer of one free respec. May be fleeting but honestly I think it would be detrimental to them more than anything. It's their game though so whatevs...
I don't expect or blame them for not having "unlimited free" respecs though. There are a lot of issues being brought up that could have a happy medium that benefits them as a company as well as players overall.
of course started gameing long before they even had ' respecs ' . Only way to change your character back in the day was to start over . And it took a lot longer to grind a character back then ,
Like clerics. There is theory that crits are better, that power is better, that recovery should reign supreme. What if I wanted to take another route? $6. And if it doesn't work? I'M PENALIZED! $6. I try something else....don't like it. NOW I'M PENALIZED AGAIN!!! $6.
Let's say that I find a build I LIKE that involves an ability. It works good, it works a little too good, simplifying dungeons to a point that healing is too powerful and PWE comes along and nerfs it, rending the ability worthless, pointless and the build I had centered around it NO LONGER WORKS. Now I need to find something else that works.
Guess what.....$6, because PWE changed something. Not my fault this time BUT I STILL HAVE TO PAY FOR IT.
No. Respecs should be for free. Sure, spend AD on paragon/feats, but not for powers. That is beyond stupid. I shouldn't have to pay, noone should. Experiementation should be encouraged, not having a cookie cutter build so I can pump out minimum numbers that some D-bag Guild Leader has predetermined I have to meet in order to make the grade.
Min/maxing has its place, but not in a D&D based game. Nor does it belong in an MMO, period. If Elitist guilds want it, sure, but that shouldn't factor down into the general populace.
This is yet another facet of PWE not being confident enough in their game to make ESSENTIAL game things free (costing gold or straight up AD) in order to purchase.
And yes, PWE, delete these threads, but I will keep saying it over and over until you get it in your head. You are not CONFIDENT enough in your game if you have to bully people into purchasing in order to Pay to WIN
EDIT:
We don't know how Cryptic will handle balance changes vs. respec's so it's pointless to worry about that right now. It's a separate issue from the general cost of respec's.
Except for you know... The 15 free respect points and handfull of regret orbs you find leveling up.
Also, your bank is shared between characters and items are not bound. If you have to remake your character its much easier on path of exile.
So did I, of course, I like advancements and improvements.
CS issue? Check this thread first! | Reporting exploits: Done Right
Good thing we're now in the 21st century and don't all get around with horse and buggy. I mean.. Back in the day that was the only way to get from point a to point b. Other than walking. Hey there's an idea...
I will never understand why someone always has to go there. You do realize probably a sizable portion you're taking to did as well don't you? I would bet this game in general probably tends to have an older crowd than whet you see in your average mmo to begin with.
What about all the Feats, Powers and Heroic points that arent working. Ask a guardian how well the +AC feats are working, also ask them how well their +40% threat is working. Ask a CW how well their group heal damage ability is working. I know there are others but I'm not spending any AD or Zen to respec because feats/powers/heroics isn't working.
Ability Scores || All Attribute Roll Combinations || My Cleric Stream \o/
I'd take that action. Zone chat says this player-base is no different than any other MMORPG's.
Not everyone babbles away in zone chat just like not everyone uses these forums. You're going to have your usual rigamarole in every game anymore far as that goes.
Respecing is an easy way out for people that don't want to or can't read and figure out what skills they want while leveling up . No respect truly makes it ' your ' character . You grow and have a feel for that toon . Putting in someone elses spec and playing ? That's why people get bored and move on . You are missing the whole point or playing a character . This isn't an x=box game where we are all playing lara croft , this is suppose to be your toon . And it wont be of your constantly respecting to what others think is best.
just my opion , but it works for me .
Because you copied someone else's build and call it good?
Some people like to try to think differently than standard cookie cutters. Which takes experimentation and lots of 'respeccing' to find what they like. Not just following someone else's formula.
I tend to like to discover for myself what works and what doesn't. Except i can't because I can't afford the 229k AD to buy 600 ZEN. This is how you shoot yourself in the foot.
So what about missing paragon paths where we don't even know what they'll be? Yeah obviously lack of planning (and reading) on the players part.
but it doesn't work this way. people find streams of healers then ask them about their build. the person watching then copies it down and just uses it because it's 6$. Why experiment with a different build when you know the one you are watching works.
Ability Scores || All Attribute Roll Combinations || My Cleric Stream \o/
And when they get put in, there'll most likely be a free respec handed out.
I wouldnt be suprised if there is no free respec handed out though, seeing as they blantely love to overcharge stuff on the Zen store.
There is not a single MMO I have seen that makes you BUY respecs. EQ all you had to do was buy your spells. You could change, almost on the fly, at any given time.
In Lotro, all you had to do was visit a Bard.
in Warframe, all you had to do was change up your mods.
In Torchlight 2, you could undo your last 3 points, and after the modder came out, all you had to do was buy a respec on the merchants.
Rift allowed you to not only mess around, but gave you 3 trees in order to switch builds on the fly.
GW2 all you had to pay was 3s50c and I could switch traits around all day. This game is also F2P and I would have said, before PW, that they had teh WORST cash shop model ever, but PW is actually worse. If this game didn't play better, I wouldn't play either.
Nope, not thinking of any game I have played, F2P or otherwise that hasn't allowed players to respec for either in game cash, or for free. Mainly in game cash.
your playing western mmorpg, come to other side