Cryptic is completely devoted to making sure the Foundry gives the best rewards, preferably equal to or better than their content. This has been a staple of The Foundry since it was first announced. The Foundry needs comparable rewards.
However a select few have ruined this temporarily for everybody else. The foundry is not meant to be a tool to farm experience or drops, simply an enjoyable alternate way to advance through the game. You may make a hack and slash dungeon delve mission. That's not a problem, but you may not design missions with the intent of producing a means to gain faster experience.
The changes made recently are an immediate fix to a major problem. It's very likely we will see Cryptic explore means to either recant the immediate changes or look for alternative ways to increase the monetary gain within the foundry content.
However, if this discussion is to continue, the cursing, insulting an name calling has to be decreased heavily.
Let's keep this civil guys.
Best news I've heard all day! Ty for typing this. I do believe after quite a bit of frustration on both sides that a LOT of folks didnt realize how the change worked and that its not. Aimed to cripple "intended" custom content! A better explanation of what was going in I think could have helped this that said, I am relieved as I'm sure a lot here are that your intentions are to give just an equal opportunity to leveling on alternate foundry content as the regular main game content! That will go a long way for those wanting this to wait for an even better implementation! Take your time and make an elegant solution !
This will make all but the actual"farming" folks very happy!
That's not "news". He's a moderator, not a dev, so he's not going to know their plans about fixing the Foundry, and we've had no official word there will even be a real fix instead of this abysmal game-breaking nerf.
Since good feelings are all around right now, let me reiterate an important bit of information posted in several posts earlier in this thread, since I suspect a good many people joining the conversation now might have missed it:
Those of us who've tested item drops and XP for normal (ie. roughly in the Cryptic style) Foundry quests since the beginning of this thread have, for the most part, discovered that there is probably no change in item drops, and a small reduction in XP gain (maybe. I got plenty of XP in the Foundry quest I played today). The item drop chance has only been affected for the grinding and/or exploiting quests, though some reports indicate that a few quests that are not like that may also be somewhat affected.
The problem with this kind of discussion is that we're trying to figure out if something that is completely random has changed. The laws of probability mean that we'll see all kinds of extreme results during such testing. We've seen anything from barely any loot dropped to as much as two blue drops in one quest during these tests.
In conclusion:
- Standard Foundry quests are mostly unaffected by the change.
- Exploit and/or grinding quests are severely affected by the change.
- Some borderline quests may or may not be affected.
I just wanted to clear this up so the conversation doesn't get too biased.
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kamaliiciousMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 0Arc User
1. Where is that statement from cryptic?
2. A level 60 player should never run a foundry quest ever. Not a single one. Since exp would mean nothing. And apparently that's the main intent of foundry not custom content? (I totally disagree, luckily so does cryptic)
3. I feel players should have the option to play as intended by the company making the game. I also feel players who don't want to play that way have the option not to play and not to spend a dime. Luckily, this is also all true.
4. I do NOT feel players have the right to force their play style BE implemented. If it is a choice by the company that they don't agree with that play style for THEIR game then the player needs to ACCEPT that.
There is NO entitlement here, none. You enjoy their offering or not.
nerfed xp/loot in comparison to official content is not "indistinguishable".
2: by this token, all level 60 players should retire their characters, as 60 is the max level and no more xp is to be gotten from official content either.
4. players aren't forcing their play style, you are free to not play those quests. If you avoid those quests, you will be just as powerful at the same level as they are (in fact you will be more powerful, since Foundry chests don't drop the unique loot that official game quests do). I don't play farming quests, those aren't fun for me.
Let's face it, Cryptic has made significant chunks of farming content themselves in the main game. Blackdagger Keep zone has a "kill 25 bandits" quest that is repeatable as often as you feel like. Ebon Downs has a kill 60 zombies quest, and that's not because you have to kill 60 zombies in order to reach a plot mcguffin, the quest as it appears onscreen is 'kill 60 zombies' (I happened to do this quest today). Not sure how a quest to kill 60 of something is not a farming quest. The zombies even appear in large groups, making aoe trivial. By their own standards, a lot of their own content would qualify as an exploit.
Since good feelings are all around right now, let me reiterate an important bit of information posted in several posts earlier in this thread, since I suspect a good many people joining the conversation now might have missed it:
Those of us who've tested item drops and XP for normal (ie. roughly in the Cryptic style) Foundry quests since the beginning of this thread have, for the most part, discovered that there is probably no change in item drops, and a small reduction in XP gain (maybe. I got plenty of XP in the Foundry quest I played today). The item drop chance has only been affected for the grinding and/or exploiting quests, though some reports indicate that a few quests that are not like that may also be somewhat affected.
The problem with this kind of discussion is that we're trying to figure out if something that is completely random has changed. The laws of probability mean that we'll see all kinds of extreme results during such testing. We've seen anything from barely any loot dropped to as much as two blue drops in one quest during these tests.
In conclusion:
- Standard Foundry quests are mostly unaffected by the change.
- Exploit and/or grinding quests are severely affected by the change.
- Some borderline quests may or may not be affected.
I just wanted to clear this up so the conversation doesn't get too biased.
Please don't spread misinformation like this, as this is blatantly untrue.
All Foundry missions give FAR FAR less loot and xp than regular Cryptic areas. Go kill any mob in the Foundry, receive nothing or maybe one copper or a junk item, then go into the Tower District, kill (probably FAR lower level) orcs. They drop usually 3-4 items PER MOB.
The Foundry quests post-nerf, even LEGIT story based maps, drop maybe one piece of loot for an ENTIRE GROUP OF ENEMIES (talking about REGULAR ENCOUNTERS, NOT EXPLOIT OR FARM MAPS).
The end-level chests were also HEAVILY NERFED. Chests now give nothing but white items (100% useless) when they used to give greens and such. Now, nothing but whites.
So yeah, don't post things that are false like this trying to act like there is no problem. You are wrong.
Or you can't grasp the entire meaning of the game or the fact it wasn't designed for what you want so you'll sit here and complain. Best change ever making this UNLIKE any other mmo out there. Like I said, give u a "level me to 60 button" to shut you the hell up. (I'd prefer u just left)
ill take a level to 60 button. lvl's 1- 59 has no meaning what so ever in this game and just an inconvenience. even though its been watered down a bit, lvl's still mean something in Everquest.
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asmatiMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 10Arc User
Congratulations people, you just made the foundry useless.
It was an awesome tool for xp/farming, especially for alts.
I don't think the core game or the foundry option was intended for those that "farm" items or xp. I do believe it was for players that enjoy creating their own adventures and sharing them with others.
How about giving the creator the option to set loot. Either by crafting their own loot, or by putting items in they themselves have looted. (this could already be a feature, I have not had the time to get into the foundry creation yet)
Please don't spread misinformation like this, as this is blatantly untrue.
No, it's not. I've confirmed this for myself.
All Foundry missions give FAR FAR less loot and xp than regular Cryptic areas.
My post never compared any of this to Cryptic quests. Your comparison is fine, but not in relation to my post which was addressing something completely different.
The end-level chests were also HEAVILY NERFED. Chests now give nothing but white items (100% useless) when they used to give greens and such. Now, nothing but whites.
This has always been the case for short quests. Play a longer one. You'll find they contain as many green items as they used to. Not that these rewards have ever been good, but that's a different discussion.
So yeah, don't post things that are false like this trying to act like there is no problem. You are wrong.
I am basing my facts on observation by multiple people. You may claim I'm wrong as much as you like, but that puts you in a very awkward light.
This has always been the case for short quests. Play a longer one. You'll find they contain as many green items as they used to. Not that these rewards have ever been good, but that's a different discussion.
ALL quests do this now, regardless of length. The ones I tested were 40 minutes to greater than an hour, so again, what you're saying isn't even remotely true.
And Ive ran "I am slayer" a dozen times and the xp is halved and all I am getting is whites. So your lucky or its falsehoods.
"I Am Slayer" has a lot of combat in a very short time, so I can see that happening. This is the kind of thing that has been nerfed, and that is an example of a quest that ends up suffering somewhat from it.
"I Am Slayer" has a lot of combat in a very short time, so I can see that happening. This is the kind of thing that has been nerfed, and that is an example of a quest that ends up suffering somewhat from it.
And thats my issue with this nerf. I whole hardheartedly agree that the exp exploiters needed banned and their exploit fixed. Like others have stated if the ogres cant get to you you cant get to them that is a very simple fix ,but to go down the road Cryptic went it has broken many a good foundry mission.
I have many a good foundry story made (in my opinion) but I wont publish them because no one will play :<
Foundry is a powerful tool for roleplayers, players who want to tell a story, and those who want to experience them. It is like reading an awesome book, do you actually get anything out of it besides a good read? I don't think it was ever intended for farming and XP farming. There are other ways of doing this, Foundry just is no longer one of them.
Thats sounds great in theory, but in your selfishness youre ignoring many things. Its not a book and people actually want to feel like they accomplished something after playing the game for 2-3 hours straight. Its an mmo afterall, trust me - its much more competitive than a book :=) So while this change does not affect you it does have quite a big impact on nwo community as a whole.
And why exactly are you against foundry being on par with the rest of the game, when it comes to drops/xp? Do you even realize it could actually be the main selling point of this game, for more than one reason? You see, progression in this game is just like most other themeparks, quite linear. Except in this one you dont even have alternative leveling zones, so its even more linear than other themepark games.
If you want to lvl an alt, you gotta do same quests as your main char. Now multiply that by amount of alts one might make, and lets face it, NW main storyline is less than stellar, and 99% of side quests are rather disappointing so i dont really feel like doing it for 2nd, much less 3rd time mind you.
Of course, they could add more lvling zones, and spend tons of money doing so. Or they could let people lvl via foundry, where every new char you make could chose his/her own path? Much like you, i absolutely love good book, but im not gonna make an alt and play 3-5hrs long stories to get 20% of lvl 15.
tldr : people were able to make alternative lvling paths via foundry, but they effectively killed that part. They took the easier route to fix a small problem, regardless of its consequences. Its just plain lazy from their side - no other explanation really. Of course its faster, and much easier to just nerf exp-loot than come up with a real solution that would not harm foundry as a whole. And people still defend cryptic.
To all 'but but cryptic did well to nerf evil quicklevelers, they shall be punished even more for their evil deeds" : Do you even realize people will come up with another way to farm exp/loot whatever and cryptic will just nerf foundry even more. and more.
And btw, id much rather have people lvling up quickly via foundry than afking in pvp
* You state that people deserve progression.
* They should be able to level up their alts without having to consume the same tired Quests in the game.
* The game could have been a standout because of the unique levelling content.
Quite simply, if the Foundry had not been exploited by those looking for the easy road then absolutely everything you asked for was already in the game. People could do Quest after Quest that was unique and earn full rewards and XP. So much content in fact that they would _never_ be able to consume it all.
Now all that content is dead game time, it has been nerfed and everyone suffers. So we had what you wanted, I had it, and because of the actions of others it has been taken away.
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kamaliiciousMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 0Arc User
"I Am Slayer" has a lot of combat in a very short time, so I can see that happening. This is the kind of thing that has been nerfed, and that is an example of a quest that ends up suffering somewhat from it.
So, which is it? First you said you tested and found the nerfing not to be true in legit quests. Now you're saying it can be true in what is not only a legit quest, but the contest winning quest?
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kamaliiciousMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 0Arc User
And Ive ran "I am slayer" a dozen times and the xp is halved and all I am getting is whites. So your lucky or its falsehoods.
"I am Slayer" is a Foundry contest winner, which means not only should it be among the best of the best, Cryptic probably played it to make sure there wasn't anything wrong with it (because if would be bad to feature a broken quest).
I just played through my Foundry mission to see how drops were compared to before the nerf. I got a ton of Radiant Enchantments killing just two groups of Shadarkai, and got greens and about four or five Potions of Lesser Healing, which I ended up having to use on the last encounter. I'm still bummed that they haven't even tried to fix the sounds in Foundry missions though.
So, rounding up rooms full of enemies and herding them to one location for AoE's to take them out in one fell swoop is farming, and therefore bad?
Why is it allowed in the actual game content then and not the Foundry? What is the difference, really?
Is it more that the "storytellers" are hurt because people prefer farms to their "shining jewels of literary content"?
I've been on teams in dungeon runs that literally MELT mobs. Nothing stood against us for more than.....sixty seconds to perhaps a minute and a half. WHOLE ROOMS. Dozens of mobs consisting of minions, LT's and bosses. IN NORMAL GAME CONTENT. Why is it alright to exceed some "intended experience gain rate" in content Cryptic designed but not in Foundry content? Especially if said Foundry content is not exploitative in nature, but simply another "round em up and mow them down" type like developer created dungeon runs?
Double standards do not end well. I'm no farmer, but I'm also not going to tell someone to play the game my way or go home. Let the farmers have their maps. Add hash tags to story content so it is easily found by those that want to stroke literary egos, and those that just want to mindlessly kill mobs do just that. Problem solved. Make such things easily found in the Foundry by those that seek it.
Cryptic is completely devoted to making sure the Foundry gives the best rewards, preferably equal to or better than their content. This has been a staple of The Foundry since it was first announced. The Foundry needs comparable rewards.
<snip>
It's very likely we will see Cryptic explore means to either recant the immediate changes or look for alternative ways to increase the monetary gain within the foundry content.
So wait, we aren't supposed to run foundry missions for the rewards but the rewards are supposed to be better than those offered in the main storyline?
Very likely WE will see.. wait, so you don't know what they are doing?
In short, I'm not a Dev and have no clue what they will do but have been instructed what the company line is regarding this GIANT PR gaffe of ruining the best part of our game. I've worked for these types of companies too long not to recognize that type of language that says absolutely nothing.
I said it before, they will either recant this as an "over correction" or say it's working as intended and write off the revenue from players who were drawn in specifically for the Foundry content.
Do you crave a good old fashioned dungeon crawl? One where the dungeon tells it's own story? The Dungeon Delves campaign is just for you! Start with my first release: NW-DQF4T7QYH Any cave can lead to adventure!
So wait, we aren't supposed to run foundry missions for the rewards but the rewards are supposed to be better than those offered in the main storyline?
Very likely WE will see.. wait, so you don't know what they are doing?
In short, I'm not a Dev and have no clue what they will do but have been instructed what the company line is regarding this GIANT PR gaffe of ruining the best part of our game. I've worked for these types of companies too long not to recognize that type of language that says absolutely nothing.
I said it before, they will either recant this as an "over correction" or say it's working as intended and write off the revenue from players who were drawn in specifically for the Foundry content.
For sure he doesn't know, he's just a moderator. He almost certainly doesn't have access to the developers' plans regarding fixing this ridiculous game-breaking nerf.
Until we get actual official confirmation that they are going to do something (hasn't happened yet, and moderators posting what they think MIGHT happen is pretty irrelevant) we don't know if they are going to fix it at all.
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
edited May 2013
That's the preference. Any changes which negatively effect the Foundry are done with a lot of trepadition.
The foundry is the staple of the game. It's the large part which separates it from the other MMO's.
Supporting the Foundry is one of their top priorities if it isn't the absolute top priority.
Rewards are important to playing content. However the Foundry is not intended to be a means to throw a bunch of mobs down and farm them for drops. It is designed to be an alternate and preferably enjoyable experience to the main story-line but it is not intended to be a shortcut route.
The game has to be balanced. People playing foundry content should not be gaining a large amount of experience more or less than players completing the main story arc.
The foundry is not intended to be a shortcut method to gaining gear and experience. Just an enjoyable alternative.
Certain quests have been hit hard which are those which can be rushed through by people only interested in killing mobs. While I Am Slayer is an absolutely awesome quest it is also a large amount of combat. It took me 30-45 minutes to play it through on my own the first time even while skipping decent chunks of the reading.
Despite this the quest had a 15 minute average playtime because players would blast through the combat and skip the conversations.
As Tilt said, while it's an awesome and solid quest this is one of the hard hit quests by any change to the system. It's simply an easy quest to burn through and farm so, yes, it ends up getting a much lower loot rating than it truly deserves for those playing the quest for the first time or as a solo player.
So again, a hack and slash quest/missions such as I am Slayer is perfectly fine to make. In fact it's obviously a lot of fun.
But missions with low completion times and a lot of combat will ultimately suffer due to the nature of the foundry. Cryptic will do everything they can to give the best possible rewards to quests but sadly that can only go so far without destroying the game's balance.
All I can say with certainty is that the intent of the Foundry is to get the best possible rewards for those using it to create balanced and entertaining content.
If we didn't have exploiters looking to find "cheat codes" to max levels this wouldn't be nearly as hard to manage from a developmental standpoint. The reason the limitations and automations exist are to preserve the balance of the game. It's those that try to destroy the balance of the game which hurt the quality content developers such as izatar.
Why? Are you a game developer? If so what games have you designed? Were they an outstanding success from day one, requiring no further testing or modification?
...why exactly are you against foundry being on par with the rest of the game, when it comes to drops/xp? Do you even realize it could actually be the main selling point of this game, for more than one reason?
I can agree with this. User created content should be on the level of what was original. That said it should not be over and above what is originally designed. Expand existing content = YES. Offer an alternative to playing the main story arc = YES, Give users an advantage in the form of faster than normal progression = NO. <if this were true then why would anyone play the main story until after maxing level, if even then.
I also agree that this could be a central point in the game it self. Forgotten Realms has been around for a long time. Neverwinter has been around for a long time. Bringing this universe to the MMO genre is great. My point is, some of us in the community have spent time in this world before (table top RPG players) and the chance to create new or even recreate those adventures and share them is enough to drive us to spend time and money.
However if one looks at The Foundry as a selling point for "you can level fast and do end game PvP" you're closing doors to a great deal of those interested in this game. PvP is not for everyone, get over it. PvP in Neverwinter is a secondary not a primary. Same can be said for foundry quests.
If you want to lvl an alt, you gotta do same quests as your main char. Now multiply that by amount of alts one might make, and lets face it, NW main storyline is less than stellar, and 99% of side quests are rather disappointing so i dont really feel like doing it for 2nd, much less 3rd time mind you.
tldr : people were able to make alternative lvling paths via foundry, but they effectively killed that part. They took the easier route to fix a small problem, regardless of its consequences. Its just plain lazy from their side - no other explanation really. Of course its faster, and much easier to just nerf exp-loot than come up with a real solution that would not harm foundry as a whole. And people still defend cryptic.
What Cryptic did was put a band-aid on a gaping wound. Is the current state going to be the end all be answer? Who knows. The devs may be looking into other options. For the time being there are two options. 1.) do what they did and put slow the xp/loot until a better option can be found/tested/implemented. 2.) Shutdown the foundry all together until a fix can be found.
What is your suggestion? I am not looking for a blanket answer either. I want to know how you would change the code to fix the problem of abuse?
To all 'but but cryptic did well to nerf evil quicklevelers, they shall be punished even more for their evil deeds" : Do you even realize people will come up with another way to farm exp/loot whatever and cryptic will just nerf foundry even more. and more.
Well of course they will. There is even a chance the new method they come up with will have nothing to do with the foundry at all.
All I can say with certainty is that the intent of the Foundry is to get the best possible rewards for those using it to create balanced and entertaining content.
If we didn't have exploiters looking to find "cheat codes" to max levels this wouldn't be nearly as hard to manage from a developmental standpoint. The reason the limitations and automations exist are to preserve the balance of the game. It's those that try to destroy the balance of the game which hurt the quality content developers such as izatar.
Thank you.
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
edited May 2013
None of you have to have the inside scoop to hear Cryptic's standpoint on Neverwinter's Foundry Content. Here's just one video Craig Zinkievich posted about what Cryptic intends to do, if possible, with Foundry content.
Everything I stated in this post and the last two posts in relation to rewards or the purpose of The Foundry has at one point in time been stated by a developer during the development stage.
This is pretty simple. The system as it was got exploited. They did a quick change because the issue couldn't be ignored until a more in depth change could be implemented. I can't promise you it will get changed but it's beyond likely it will because that is their standpoint on Foundry Content Rewards.
Just to add some info about Cryptic. All those that bang on about the evils of powerleveling in mmos based on PnP games and these awful exp grinding mishes people made in the foundry.
Cryptic made another MMO based on a PnP game Champions Online and Cryptic themselves made EXP,LOOT,MONIES grinding mishes called ALERTS were a player could level to max level in less than a day.
Anything Cryptic has to say about the evils of powerleveling and powerleveling mishes in the foundry is just hypocrisy of the highest order.
As Tilt said, while it's an awesome and solid quest this is one of the hard hit quests by any change to the system. It's simply an easy quest to burn through and farm so, yes, it ends up getting a much lower loot rating than it truly deserves for those playing the quest for the first time or as a solo player.
So again, a hack and slash quest/missions such as I am Slayer is perfectly fine to make. In fact it's obviously a lot of fun.
"I am Slayer" won the Foundry contest. eg it was the content people wanted. So the content that people want is getting nerfed (or banned, look at the Blood and Sand quest, or whatever it's currently titled).
As a contest winner, this also means someone at Cryptic probably actually played "I am Slayer" (it would look very bad for them to have a winner that was obviously broken, copyright infringing, etc).
None of you have to have the inside scoop to hear Cryptic's standpoint on Neverwinter's Foundry Content. Here's just one video Craig Zinkievich posted about what Cryptic intends to do, if possible, with Foundry content.
Everything I stated in this post and the last two posts in relation to rewards or the purpose of The Foundry has at one point in time been stated by a developer during the development stage.
This is pretty simple. The system as it was got exploited. They did a quick change because the issue couldn't be ignored until a more in depth change could be implemented. I can't promise you it will get changed but it's beyond likely it will because that is their standpoint on Foundry Content Rewards.
MMO companies are fairly notorious for pulling this exact maneuver - saying one thing before release, then AFTER they break the game with knee-jerk nerfs and changes, they are completely silent about the issues and nothing ever changes.
So until we have official word that this isn't going to be the state of the Foundry forevermore, I am pretty unconvinced. There was a high profile MMO that did basically the same exact thing not too long ago... selling their fans on a design for the game (over the course of 5 years), then immediately abandoning it and replacing it with a design that is the precise opposite of the design they advertised and sold players on, shortly after release.
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kamaliiciousMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 0Arc User
None of you have to have the inside scoop to hear Cryptic's standpoint on Neverwinter's Foundry Content. Here's just one video Craig Zinkievich posted about what Cryptic intends to do, if possible, with Foundry content.
He seems to be saying people will build what they want to play. So why nerf/ban what people want to play?
Comments
Best news I've heard all day! Ty for typing this. I do believe after quite a bit of frustration on both sides that a LOT of folks didnt realize how the change worked and that its not. Aimed to cripple "intended" custom content! A better explanation of what was going in I think could have helped this
This will make all but the actual"farming" folks very happy!
Since good feelings are all around right now, let me reiterate an important bit of information posted in several posts earlier in this thread, since I suspect a good many people joining the conversation now might have missed it:
Those of us who've tested item drops and XP for normal (ie. roughly in the Cryptic style) Foundry quests since the beginning of this thread have, for the most part, discovered that there is probably no change in item drops, and a small reduction in XP gain (maybe. I got plenty of XP in the Foundry quest I played today). The item drop chance has only been affected for the grinding and/or exploiting quests, though some reports indicate that a few quests that are not like that may also be somewhat affected.
The problem with this kind of discussion is that we're trying to figure out if something that is completely random has changed. The laws of probability mean that we'll see all kinds of extreme results during such testing. We've seen anything from barely any loot dropped to as much as two blue drops in one quest during these tests.
In conclusion:
- Standard Foundry quests are mostly unaffected by the change.
- Exploit and/or grinding quests are severely affected by the change.
- Some borderline quests may or may not be affected.
I just wanted to clear this up so the conversation doesn't get too biased.
http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/09/26/cryptic-neverwinter-foundry/
nerfed xp/loot in comparison to official content is not "indistinguishable".
2: by this token, all level 60 players should retire their characters, as 60 is the max level and no more xp is to be gotten from official content either.
4. players aren't forcing their play style, you are free to not play those quests. If you avoid those quests, you will be just as powerful at the same level as they are (in fact you will be more powerful, since Foundry chests don't drop the unique loot that official game quests do). I don't play farming quests, those aren't fun for me.
Let's face it, Cryptic has made significant chunks of farming content themselves in the main game. Blackdagger Keep zone has a "kill 25 bandits" quest that is repeatable as often as you feel like. Ebon Downs has a kill 60 zombies quest, and that's not because you have to kill 60 zombies in order to reach a plot mcguffin, the quest as it appears onscreen is 'kill 60 zombies' (I happened to do this quest today). Not sure how a quest to kill 60 of something is not a farming quest. The zombies even appear in large groups, making aoe trivial. By their own standards, a lot of their own content would qualify as an exploit.
Please don't spread misinformation like this, as this is blatantly untrue.
All Foundry missions give FAR FAR less loot and xp than regular Cryptic areas. Go kill any mob in the Foundry, receive nothing or maybe one copper or a junk item, then go into the Tower District, kill (probably FAR lower level) orcs. They drop usually 3-4 items PER MOB.
The Foundry quests post-nerf, even LEGIT story based maps, drop maybe one piece of loot for an ENTIRE GROUP OF ENEMIES (talking about REGULAR ENCOUNTERS, NOT EXPLOIT OR FARM MAPS).
The end-level chests were also HEAVILY NERFED. Chests now give nothing but white items (100% useless) when they used to give greens and such. Now, nothing but whites.
So yeah, don't post things that are false like this trying to act like there is no problem. You are wrong.
ill take a level to 60 button. lvl's 1- 59 has no meaning what so ever in this game and just an inconvenience. even though its been watered down a bit, lvl's still mean something in Everquest.
I don't think the core game or the foundry option was intended for those that "farm" items or xp. I do believe it was for players that enjoy creating their own adventures and sharing them with others.
How about giving the creator the option to set loot. Either by crafting their own loot, or by putting items in they themselves have looted. (this could already be a feature, I have not had the time to get into the foundry creation yet)
No, it's not. I've confirmed this for myself.
My post never compared any of this to Cryptic quests. Your comparison is fine, but not in relation to my post which was addressing something completely different.
This has always been the case for short quests. Play a longer one. You'll find they contain as many green items as they used to. Not that these rewards have ever been good, but that's a different discussion.
I am basing my facts on observation by multiple people. You may claim I'm wrong as much as you like, but that puts you in a very awkward light.
ALL quests do this now, regardless of length. The ones I tested were 40 minutes to greater than an hour, so again, what you're saying isn't even remotely true.
And Ive ran "I am slayer" a dozen times and the xp is halved and all I am getting is whites. So your lucky or its falsehoods.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
"I Am Slayer" has a lot of combat in a very short time, so I can see that happening. This is the kind of thing that has been nerfed, and that is an example of a quest that ends up suffering somewhat from it.
And thats my issue with this nerf. I whole hardheartedly agree that the exp exploiters needed banned and their exploit fixed. Like others have stated if the ogres cant get to you you cant get to them that is a very simple fix ,but to go down the road Cryptic went it has broken many a good foundry mission.
I have many a good foundry story made (in my opinion) but I wont publish them because no one will play :<
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
Thats sounds great in theory, but in your selfishness youre ignoring many things. Its not a book and people actually want to feel like they accomplished something after playing the game for 2-3 hours straight. Its an mmo afterall, trust me - its much more competitive than a book :=) So while this change does not affect you it does have quite a big impact on nwo community as a whole.
And why exactly are you against foundry being on par with the rest of the game, when it comes to drops/xp? Do you even realize it could actually be the main selling point of this game, for more than one reason? You see, progression in this game is just like most other themeparks, quite linear. Except in this one you dont even have alternative leveling zones, so its even more linear than other themepark games.
If you want to lvl an alt, you gotta do same quests as your main char. Now multiply that by amount of alts one might make, and lets face it, NW main storyline is less than stellar, and 99% of side quests are rather disappointing so i dont really feel like doing it for 2nd, much less 3rd time mind you.
Of course, they could add more lvling zones, and spend tons of money doing so. Or they could let people lvl via foundry, where every new char you make could chose his/her own path? Much like you, i absolutely love good book, but im not gonna make an alt and play 3-5hrs long stories to get 20% of lvl 15.
tldr : people were able to make alternative lvling paths via foundry, but they effectively killed that part. They took the easier route to fix a small problem, regardless of its consequences. Its just plain lazy from their side - no other explanation really. Of course its faster, and much easier to just nerf exp-loot than come up with a real solution that would not harm foundry as a whole. And people still defend cryptic.
To all 'but but cryptic did well to nerf evil quicklevelers, they shall be punished even more for their evil deeds" : Do you even realize people will come up with another way to farm exp/loot whatever and cryptic will just nerf foundry even more. and more.
And btw, id much rather have people lvling up quickly via foundry than afking in pvp
* You state that people deserve progression.
* They should be able to level up their alts without having to consume the same tired Quests in the game.
* The game could have been a standout because of the unique levelling content.
Quite simply, if the Foundry had not been exploited by those looking for the easy road then absolutely everything you asked for was already in the game. People could do Quest after Quest that was unique and earn full rewards and XP. So much content in fact that they would _never_ be able to consume it all.
Now all that content is dead game time, it has been nerfed and everyone suffers. So we had what you wanted, I had it, and because of the actions of others it has been taken away.
Why is it allowed in the actual game content then and not the Foundry? What is the difference, really?
Is it more that the "storytellers" are hurt because people prefer farms to their "shining jewels of literary content"?
I've been on teams in dungeon runs that literally MELT mobs. Nothing stood against us for more than.....sixty seconds to perhaps a minute and a half. WHOLE ROOMS. Dozens of mobs consisting of minions, LT's and bosses. IN NORMAL GAME CONTENT. Why is it alright to exceed some "intended experience gain rate" in content Cryptic designed but not in Foundry content? Especially if said Foundry content is not exploitative in nature, but simply another "round em up and mow them down" type like developer created dungeon runs?
Double standards do not end well. I'm no farmer, but I'm also not going to tell someone to play the game my way or go home. Let the farmers have their maps. Add hash tags to story content so it is easily found by those that want to stroke literary egos, and those that just want to mindlessly kill mobs do just that. Problem solved. Make such things easily found in the Foundry by those that seek it.
Occam's Razor makes the cutting clean.
So wait, we aren't supposed to run foundry missions for the rewards but the rewards are supposed to be better than those offered in the main storyline?
Very likely WE will see.. wait, so you don't know what they are doing?
In short, I'm not a Dev and have no clue what they will do but have been instructed what the company line is regarding this GIANT PR gaffe of ruining the best part of our game. I've worked for these types of companies too long not to recognize that type of language that says absolutely nothing.
I said it before, they will either recant this as an "over correction" or say it's working as intended and write off the revenue from players who were drawn in specifically for the Foundry content.
Until we get actual official confirmation that they are going to do something (hasn't happened yet, and moderators posting what they think MIGHT happen is pretty irrelevant) we don't know if they are going to fix it at all.
The foundry is the staple of the game. It's the large part which separates it from the other MMO's.
Supporting the Foundry is one of their top priorities if it isn't the absolute top priority.
Rewards are important to playing content. However the Foundry is not intended to be a means to throw a bunch of mobs down and farm them for drops. It is designed to be an alternate and preferably enjoyable experience to the main story-line but it is not intended to be a shortcut route.
The game has to be balanced. People playing foundry content should not be gaining a large amount of experience more or less than players completing the main story arc.
The foundry is not intended to be a shortcut method to gaining gear and experience. Just an enjoyable alternative.
Certain quests have been hit hard which are those which can be rushed through by people only interested in killing mobs. While I Am Slayer is an absolutely awesome quest it is also a large amount of combat. It took me 30-45 minutes to play it through on my own the first time even while skipping decent chunks of the reading.
Despite this the quest had a 15 minute average playtime because players would blast through the combat and skip the conversations.
As Tilt said, while it's an awesome and solid quest this is one of the hard hit quests by any change to the system. It's simply an easy quest to burn through and farm so, yes, it ends up getting a much lower loot rating than it truly deserves for those playing the quest for the first time or as a solo player.
So again, a hack and slash quest/missions such as I am Slayer is perfectly fine to make. In fact it's obviously a lot of fun.
But missions with low completion times and a lot of combat will ultimately suffer due to the nature of the foundry. Cryptic will do everything they can to give the best possible rewards to quests but sadly that can only go so far without destroying the game's balance.
All I can say with certainty is that the intent of the Foundry is to get the best possible rewards for those using it to create balanced and entertaining content.
If we didn't have exploiters looking to find "cheat codes" to max levels this wouldn't be nearly as hard to manage from a developmental standpoint. The reason the limitations and automations exist are to preserve the balance of the game. It's those that try to destroy the balance of the game which hurt the quality content developers such as izatar.
Does that mean you don't read a book simply for the enjoyment? Do you never go back and read a book to have read once before?
Why? Are you a game developer? If so what games have you designed? Were they an outstanding success from day one, requiring no further testing or modification?
I agree this change does have an impact on the NWO (lol NWO) community as a whole. It says "Stop abusing the system!"
I can agree with this. User created content should be on the level of what was original. That said it should not be over and above what is originally designed. Expand existing content = YES. Offer an alternative to playing the main story arc = YES, Give users an advantage in the form of faster than normal progression = NO. <if this were true then why would anyone play the main story until after maxing level, if even then.
I also agree that this could be a central point in the game it self. Forgotten Realms has been around for a long time. Neverwinter has been around for a long time. Bringing this universe to the MMO genre is great. My point is, some of us in the community have spent time in this world before (table top RPG players) and the chance to create new or even recreate those adventures and share them is enough to drive us to spend time and money.
However if one looks at The Foundry as a selling point for "you can level fast and do end game PvP" you're closing doors to a great deal of those interested in this game. PvP is not for everyone, get over it. PvP in Neverwinter is a secondary not a primary. Same can be said for foundry quests.
This is different in anyother MMORPG?
What Cryptic did was put a band-aid on a gaping wound. Is the current state going to be the end all be answer? Who knows. The devs may be looking into other options. For the time being there are two options. 1.) do what they did and put slow the xp/loot until a better option can be found/tested/implemented. 2.) Shutdown the foundry all together until a fix can be found.
What is your suggestion? I am not looking for a blanket answer either. I want to know how you would change the code to fix the problem of abuse?
Well of course they will. There is even a chance the new method they come up with will have nothing to do with the foundry at all.
True story, bro.
You present an argument. I don't disagree with you completely.
Thank you.
Everything I stated in this post and the last two posts in relation to rewards or the purpose of The Foundry has at one point in time been stated by a developer during the development stage.
This is pretty simple. The system as it was got exploited. They did a quick change because the issue couldn't be ignored until a more in depth change could be implemented. I can't promise you it will get changed but it's beyond likely it will because that is their standpoint on Foundry Content Rewards.
What happened to logging in, hooking up with some friends/guildmates, and having a good time?
Cryptic made another MMO based on a PnP game Champions Online and Cryptic themselves made EXP,LOOT,MONIES grinding mishes called ALERTS were a player could level to max level in less than a day.
Anything Cryptic has to say about the evils of powerleveling and powerleveling mishes in the foundry is just hypocrisy of the highest order.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
As a contest winner, this also means someone at Cryptic probably actually played "I am Slayer" (it would look very bad for them to have a winner that was obviously broken, copyright infringing, etc).
MMO companies are fairly notorious for pulling this exact maneuver - saying one thing before release, then AFTER they break the game with knee-jerk nerfs and changes, they are completely silent about the issues and nothing ever changes.
So until we have official word that this isn't going to be the state of the Foundry forevermore, I am pretty unconvinced. There was a high profile MMO that did basically the same exact thing not too long ago... selling their fans on a design for the game (over the course of 5 years), then immediately abandoning it and replacing it with a design that is the precise opposite of the design they advertised and sold players on, shortly after release.
He seems to be saying people will build what they want to play. So why nerf/ban what people want to play?