would it be too much to add some self regulation? I.E. as in, a quest gets too many low scores it's removed. unless thats already there. then ppl could 1 srat the farm quests and exploit quests. then again that requires you to play it so... i dunno. i hope the recent changes are temporary while they attempt balance changes.
My rogue alt does not kill on normal speed, he kills about twice as fast as my other characters. Have you been running this same quest over and over?
I fail to see the relevance in this question. Cryptic content allows you to run it over and over and over. Matter of fact, a community moderator posted that Cryptic WANTS you to farm their content. You kinda have to to "earn" Astral Diamonds, right?
The problem I have(and I suspect others too, but they don't word it quite the same) is that a player who excels in builds and/or strategy is being penalized for that by a reduced xp/loot drop rate in Foundry missions if you exceed their arbitrary ratio of xp per time unit. Also, heaven forbid you create a Foundry mission that's just more efficient at farming xp/loot than one of Cryptic's "storyline" quests. I suspect that indeed, some butthurt storytellers got mad farms are more popular than their literary vomit.
I fail to see the relevance in this question. Cryptic content allows you to run it over and over and over. Matter of fact, a community moderator posted that Cryptic WANTS you to farm their content. You kinda have to to "earn" Astral Diamonds, right?
The relevance is that people make claims that I don't see confirmed when I play the game, so I was trying to figure out what these people do that I don't do, e.g. running the same, identical foundry quest back to back on the same day. I do different foundry quests (though I tend to stick to the same ones for the daily quest because I know how long those take me for certain) and I do get XP and I do get greens.
Just to clarify something here: I do not think any tweaks were needed. As I said before, people who want to skip content and get to 60 as fast as possible will always find ways to do this. They ruin the game for themselves, but I have no issues with this. My CW was 60 before the headstart was over, and I only quested, so, it's fast either way.
My only problem with the foundry farming was the massive spam it caused in the chat. I would have been fine with a solution like a specific foundry quest giving rewards and XP only once per day. Although, I don't really see a strong, negative impact on my foundry quest rewards as is.
I cannot believe what I am reading in this thread...
I installed this game and so far it has been a breath of fresh air in MMO gaming, much closer to pen and paper DnD then any other MMO I played. I did a few foundries (to be fair i picked the top rated ones) and they had great stories and give me hope for tons of new content constantly being churned out for this game.
Then I read this thread, plagued with absolutely asinine remarks from people that honestly I would rather <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> off and play something else then ruin this game that has so much potential.
I like to play games for interesting adventures and stories.
I like lore.
I dont care if its end game or leveling, its the adventure.
I hate farming.
I think rare loot should be something you feel proud to have not something everybody must have.
I have already seen some "gearscore" <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> posted in chat and despair for those fools.
This game so far is perfectly catered to the gamer like me who wants to have fun. If you want a game where you have to grind and spend weeks trying to achieve a goal then go and find one don't try to force this one to be it. So far the only ****ed thing in this game is the amount of idiots that play it.
Please Devs don't listen to them, yes it is true there are more of them with more disposable income (usually because they are NEET's and have no obligations) but everyone already caters to the epeen seekers. You do not have to follow suit. I beg of you keep the game about story and adventure with loot as fun things you find.
And to all the people that want to disagree with me, "May you spend eternity eating meals cooked by an elf and served in a dwarfs codpiece".
Oh gosh........another PnP who just discovered MMOs.
Il tell you that, there is a beautiful game called champions online, it's full of people(maybe 100) who enjoy RP superheros, they even create a lore of their char and several alt's/account to role-play simultaneously. To make thing more intresting
I am not joking you should check that out, there is also a player who roleplay as an angel who only purpose of his gameplay is to ress people when they die doing duels.( I loved him)
But please...don't ruin this game, you have 0 knowledge of online gaming, and I am not saying it as an insult.
The things you like in your post are among the MOST boring aspect of an MMO and it's not an opinion, but a mater of fact....
I will go tru them one by one.
1)I like to play games for interesting adventures and stories.
Now it may be a good point, i like that too and a lot, problem is: This is an MMO not an Rpg, if you are searching for an adventure to fully immerse yourself try those 2 games. The Witcher and Mass effect. If you are a fan of lightsaber try out knight of the old republic.
2)I like lore.
I like lore too, however it has no impact on the Gameplay...most of the players prefer gameplay over lore.
3)I dont care if its end game or leveling, its the adventure.
Again there are several game who can provide you an adventure, MMO most important aspect is the end game. if it has fun leveling it's a very welcome plus.
4)I hate farming..
People LOVE farming..they just don't know it...farming is the most attractive part of an mmo for any competitive/cooperative player:
Leveling up?(You farm mob/quest)
Getting a shiny loot?(you farm dungeons)
Ranking up in pvp?(you farm battleground/pvp area)
I could go on with this formula for every aspect of the game, you and I...we are both crazy farmers like it or not.
5)I think rare loot should be something you feel proud to have not something everybody must have.
Well..opinions are opinions, I think rare loot should be a reward for an effort, pretty much a carrot on a stick...
I think you will love the legendary weapons on GW2.. while I could not care less for them.
6)I have already seen some "gearscore" <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> posted in chat and despair for those fools.
Oh there we go...i completely agree with you
No offense mate but you just described some browser roleplaying game that has nothing to do with an MMO.....
Peace.
ah there is your perfect game i will create it for you.
Legend of the adventurer.
you start at lvl 0, you don't gain level but lore point for every book you find and read in the world!
There are dungeon, but they are interactive and the combat is verbal, you just get asked question related to the lore to defeat the enemy!
When you complete a dungeon you have 100% chance to get an epic looking item and based on the time you complete the dungeon you get to write some note of your character on our epic adventurers wall!!
But you can only do the dungeon once so be prepared!
Well... the truth about MMO's. Sorry, but it is. And this is who Cryptic has to appeal to if they want to make money.
I don't agree fully. I think understanding that demographic is a bit more indepth than the rather simplistic way that was presented. That said I also think that the Foundry is a symbol of not having to cater to only ONE demographic, but allowing the players to generate the content THEY want to play. A good enough tag and search system lets the Foundry appeal to the story guys, the grind guys and everyone in between.
The "us vs them" doesn't help us.
Do you crave a good old fashioned dungeon crawl? One where the dungeon tells it's own story? The Dungeon Delves campaign is just for you! Start with my first release: NW-DQF4T7QYH Any cave can lead to adventure!
Ok, full stop! Enough of this D&D is BS we keep hearing. You know what D&D is? It's a set of rules that allow conflict resolution via dice and a set of logic driven hard stop definitions that is SUPPOSED to be arbitrated by a Game Master. It has been used by many to tell stories but it has also been used by the same people and others as nothing more than an excuse to sit, roll dice and claim to have killed legions of monsters. IT IS NOT A STORYTELLING TOOL! Stop trying to claim it is as a basis for why the foundry must be policed a certain way.
1: Cryptic has shown their stance to be that the Foundry was to be on par with or better than their own content.
2: Cryptic has stated they want players to play the content they enjoy.
3: PWI is in business to make money off this title and as such they want the whole pie, meaning every player who plays to enjoy the game.
4: Story is a VERY subjective term and as such can mean anything from what you tell you kid at night to go to sleep which lasts 5 minutes and relies heavily on their imagination all the way up to the epic of the lord of the rings which currently takes more than 4 books, 6 movies totaling over 20 hours of film work and counting, an laundry list of table top and video games including it's own MMO and more. Your standard for story is not the only one and as such you are in a poor position to dictate to anyone else what they have to include.
5: We have been repeatedly told this is a band aid and as such there is supposed to be a permanent fix that reduces the limitations of this, thus telling unhappy players to stop speaking up during beta is counter to what Cryptic wants right now.
If you have something constructive to add please feel free but until then this rhetoric of how anyone who doesn't play your way is simply unnecessary and only paints you as a fool and a ****** bag who is out to ruin the fun of anyone else.
What do you mean people that dont want to play my way. questing is what part of the game is. skipping everything possible is not. its not my way of playing its what an mmorpg is. so If you have something constructive to add please feel free.
Hey everybody, thanks for sharing your feedback here. The Foundry is an integral part of Neverwinter and we're working hard to make it a smooth and fun experience for everyone.
Please keep sharing your comments, they help us make the game even better!
Hello Sominator, i would simply state my opinion/suggestion, related to the issue, i am faithful they don't need much explanation since anyone with a professional background in developing and game designing could fully understand such reasons.
1)the xp reward needs to be reverted to it's first state
2)a different tab for hack and slash need to be implemented
3)enemy unable to fight back should go in evade
the foundry could be a beautiful tool for everyone taste, I hope this will happen
LIKE
1) I love the lore (didn't dig deep yet, but I like that I am part of a believable story, like you would read in fantasy books)
2) Gameplay mechanics is absolutely amazing, if you put away the bugs
3) Free to play and mostly not Pay to Win
4) Crafting System
5.) hard to respec (That's right kids, your decisions matter!)
6.) Challanging (Mad Dragon, more more more!)
7.) Professions (though a bit empty)
DISLIKE
1) Takes too much (boring) farming to get Zen
2) The very idea of DAILIES
3) Half the Community
SUGGESTIONS:
1) A history of the people you party up with (crashed a couple of times and wish I could remember that person) also for blacklisting purposes
IDEAS:
It would be nice to have the option to subscribe monthly and have all the zen stuff added to the droplists for you, but obviously that wouldn't be a simple implementation.
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spiderbrigadeMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 14Arc User
Ok, I published it, Coanunn's Cryptic Fun House NW-DERYEIGYH. This has only a little decoration and is not decorated to exactly match the dungeon it is a recreation of. A few notes:
I like the snarky comments on the chests and "resource nodes"
My findings:
Level 32 TR
net XP 2220
Net Coin 7.62 Silver
Item drops: 2 green, 1 white equipment, 1 green 2 white enchants, 2 potions, 1 scroll
didn't think to time my run unfortunately.
You should suggest providing this kind of info in the review.
I like the snarky comments on the chests and "resource nodes"
My findings:
Level 32 TR
net XP 2220
Net Coin 7.62 Silver
Item drops: 2 green, 1 white equipment, 1 green 2 white enchants, 2 potions, 1 scroll
didn't think to time my run unfortunately.
You should suggest providing this kind of info in the review.
Did you watch the log to see if at any point you failed to get xp for a kill? That is the only true test that is necessary in this case. If the nerf effects the map you will kill and get no xp at all in the log. I noticed it the couple times I ran it BUT I made the map, know all the placements and as such it makes all the data I would gather skewed. If you start failing to get XP it is the proof everyone keeps saying we don't have that the Nerf was excessive as the dungeon is based as closely on Cryptic design as can be gotten.. as I said, if anything it's slower than the Cryptic dungeon as the rooms I had to use are larger.
Do you crave a good old fashioned dungeon crawl? One where the dungeon tells it's own story? The Dungeon Delves campaign is just for you! Start with my first release: NW-DQF4T7QYH Any cave can lead to adventure!
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spiderbrigadeMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 14Arc User
edited May 2013
I didn't watch it 100% of the time...there were definitely some kills where I didn't get anything.
However I disagree that this is the only useful info to be gathered from the experiment. Yes, this shows that running the quest is not "as rewarding as it could possibly be" which is real problem. But net results are also good to gauge running a Foundry quest against standard content.
Information about items is also useful because some people are claiming they're getting the exact same items they got before while others are claiming they are spending more on resources than they are getting back. Actual numbers are useful to examine those claims.
I will try to run the thing again later and get more precise figures about how often I wasn't getting XP for kills. I appreciate what you're doing here and hope to see numbers from other players to improve the sample size.
I didn't watch it 100% of the time...there were definitely some kills where I didn't get anything.
However I disagree that this is the only useful info to be gathered from the experiment. Yes, this shows that running the quest is not "as rewarding as it could possibly be" which is real problem. But net results are also good to gauge running a Foundry quest against standard content.
Information about items is also useful because some people are claiming they're getting the exact same items they got before while others are claiming they are spending more on resources than they are getting back. Actual numbers are useful to examine those claims.
I will try to run the thing again later and get more precise figures about how often I wasn't getting XP for kills. I appreciate what you're doing here and hope to see numbers from other players to improve the sample size.
It was an idea I had posted when the nerf first happened and we got the response "Cryptic content is the balance standard" and "most content should not be affected". I certainly understand the other numbers, but the proof is in the pudding as they say. If I've replicated their dungeon, with slower pacing due to longer distances between mob placements and you still hit the soft cap for xp over time then that means the nerf is so excessive their own content is NOT the balance standard.
I still think that an evade system for exploits and a group size scale is all that was necessary to resolve the issue. The idea that UGC allows the player to gather XP more quickly than live content is patently false unless UGC monsters are either weaker (thus easier to kill) or worth more XP. If an ogre in the 'Live' rewards players we'll say 100 xp then the one in UGC should do the same IF it is the same fight (which it should be). If the UGC author stacks 12 ogres in one place, and there is an exploit limiter so that all of the ogres must be able to fight or they go into an evade then the player still has to kill 12 ogres for that reward. In the case of the player bringing in his guildmates so they can rush the 12 ogres, a group size scale would increase it to additional ogres, elite versions (like we currently see in skirmishes and dungeons) or some other gradient that increases the difficulty for a group. If in fact it is "too easy" then the fix is not to limit xp but to fix why it's too easy.
That's why the dungeon was made, to show Cryptic their own content would suffer from this and that the fix shouldn't revolve around XP and loot but rather around Challenge Rating. Something that anyone developing a D&D based title should have been familiar with. An Ogre that is a Solo challenge for a 3rd level fighter is not the same challenge to a 3rd level party. This is the part that has gotten completely lost in the "D&D is a story telling tool" nonsense we've been seeing. D&D is not about the story, that is and has always been up to the GM. D&D is the conflict resolution system, and CR is how they've helped GM's keep encounters balanced for over a decade.
Do you crave a good old fashioned dungeon crawl? One where the dungeon tells it's own story? The Dungeon Delves campaign is just for you! Start with my first release: NW-DQF4T7QYH Any cave can lead to adventure!
Just did an eligible foundry quest which took me all of 20 minutes to complete and yet it was chock full of lore/story. I got 9 green equip, 10 white equip, 7 lesser health potions, 4 identify scrolls even a few crafting resources. And I went from being in the second bubble of level 21 to the second to last bubble before 22. Got a decent amount of cash too. To be honest, I was surprised by how lucrative the quest was for the amount of effort expended. No blues, but still...
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odoielrulzMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 13Arc User
Hello Sominator, i would simply state my opinion/suggestion, related to the issue, i am faithful they don't need much explanation since anyone with a professional background in developing and game designing could fully understand such reasons.
1)the xp reward needs to be reverted to it's first state
2)a different tab for hack and slash need to be implemented
3)enemy unable to fight back should go in evade
the foundry could be a beautiful tool for everyone taste, I hope this will happen
I find I am rather offended by the change that was made to the foundry. Not only were the XP and item drop nerfs unneeded, they did not break the game, in any way, for anyone.
Everyone plays the game in their own way. There are those that love to just grind to end-game, and have fun that way. There are those that like the questing. It is now virtually impossible to grind to end game -in any decent way- other than through the questing system.
There are those of us - myself included - that get bored of hearing/reading the same "please, go here, do this" over and over. If we play multiple classes, with the nerf, we would need to now. Not only that, but as new classes and races come in, and we either reroll our characters or create new ones, we have to do the same thing again.
Cryptic, I implore you, revert foundry rewards to the way the were. Sure, some people - myself included - will use it to grind to 60 - but we also have every right to do so. We are not violating the game, or getting an obscene number of astral diamonds or rare/ultra rare items or anything.
More importantly, however: With the changes you have made, anyone playing missions that other people have created, the ones that involve actual story content, also get virtually nothing from them. It makes foundry missions entirely not worth doing now. I have seen Cryptic do a lot of stupid things, before they have reverted them. I have also seen cryptic ignore the majority of the community on major issues. Please don't do that here.
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beadsyMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 1Arc User
edited May 2013
I was thinking the same thing and noticed Cryptic is doing this and not the maker of the foundry. Please give us more items similar to a dungeon please!
evade isn't critical to the game. When you have a development team as small as the one's that Cryptic like to use (because, you know, Cryptic's bean counters are in total control of everything - and more devs, even though makes a better game, affects the bottom line), some things get shafted. It is why, after 2 years of development, we still have only 4 classes (I am sorry, but no. There are 2 fighters. They are no seperate classes. They are a different approach to the same class).
It would have been quicker for them to implement the 30 levels of 4th Edition DnD, and simply scale xp so it takes just as long to get to 30 as it would to get to 60. It also would have been able to give us virtually all the content from PHB1 due to the reduction in development time in other areas.
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kamaliiciousMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
Ran the Lanaar Legacy by tilt42 for the first time. Highly rated 45 minute long quest, 5 greens total including the end chest one, roughly a half level of xp (solo 19th TR).
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boydzinjMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
I have been exclusively running foundry as my sole amount of EXP (besides some crafting) from level 18-ish to level 44. Of course, most of my time has been spent in the foundry creating, updating, and tweaking quests. Saturday, I decided to level with a buddy of mine. Within a span of 3 hours... i gained 5 levels. I did not get any blues - but I can tell you one thing... the exp from kills was about the same as I was getting in the foundry. However, the EXP I was getting from quest completions is what boosted the EXP all over the place.
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thecainMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
There's an easy solution to this problem. You all keep thinking they need to change the limiter, when the limiter isn't the problem, it in fact shouldn't even exist. The problem is the AI, and the system of the Foundry itself. The way you propose, you're just hurting anyone that's fast, or can get a lot of EXP in a short amount of time through skill. I'd love to list what the current exploits I know are, but they do erase/block them from being seen, so here's what I think will fix it.
1a: Make it so elite mobs can't be spawned on top of one another. There needs to be a certain radius that they have to be placed so they can't just spawn into crowd control. 1b: Be sure to make it so that if a mob is defeated first, a new mob can spawn after it.
2: Make it so there's a grind/EXP tab in the foundry. That way people wanting story can go story without getting buried by EXP farms.
3: Make it so if a mob can't path correctly to someone, the mobs can't be hurt/regenerate health. Try to find a way where this won't interfere with Control Wizards, seeing as a properly skilled Control Wizard can lock a foe down to the point they can't even get an attack off.
4: Try to remember that there will always be exploiters looking for the quickest way to get what they want. These people suck, but don't punish the majority because of the minority.
5: Amnesty for people who run said maps, so they're not afraid to come forward about exploits they find, and so testers can test the exploit maps and find out just what the exploit is, how it works, and if there's some way to break it.
6: Rewards for finding exploits that your staff can replicate. This does not mean rewards for finding exploit creating authors, otherwise the system WILL BE ABUSED. You don't want to get flooded.
7: Make it so mobs can run over traps. I've had mobs just stand in front of a trap, even though I was trying to get them to run over it (thinking I was all sneaky for it).
With those fixes in place, you could probably release the foundry without any sort of limits once again. Story Authors could have their stories at the top of the Lore Driven tab, people that want an EXP grind can grind like crazy, and everyone has fun without being a cheater.
Y'know, except for the cheaters, who need to get real friendly with a Giant's fist.
There's an easy solution to this problem. 5: Amnesty for people who run said maps, so they're not afraid to come forward about exploits they find, and so testers can test the exploit maps and find out just what the exploit is, how it works, and if there's some way to break it.
6: Rewards for finding exploits that your staff can replicate. This does not mean rewards for finding exploit creating authors, otherwise the system WILL BE ABUSED. You don't want to get flooded.
7: Make it so mobs can run over traps. I've had mobs just stand in front of a trap, even though I was trying to get them to run over it (thinking I was all sneaky for it).
See and as a TR I want to know why I can't lead a monster across a trap to damage it.. I know it's there, but does it? God knows I've done this in PnP before. Hell I tried it on a Cryptic map very early on and was upset when it didn't work.
I know exploiters will exploit, but at what point are we cutting off our nose to spite our face?
Do you crave a good old fashioned dungeon crawl? One where the dungeon tells it's own story? The Dungeon Delves campaign is just for you! Start with my first release: NW-DQF4T7QYH Any cave can lead to adventure!
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lanessar13Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, SilverstarsPosts: 8Arc User
There's an easy solution to this problem. You all keep thinking they need to change the limiter, when the limiter isn't the problem. The problem is the AI, and the system of the Foundry itself. The way you propose, you're just hurting anyone that's fast, or can get a lot of EXP in a short amount of time through skill. I'd love to list what the current exploits I know are, but they do erase/block them from being seen, so here's what I think will fix it.
I'm personally not convinced that's the fix. I'm just noting that Foundry is terrible compared to doing standard content. About he only reason to use it during leveling is to fill in the last quarter of a bubble before hitting another area.
As another poster stated, the quest XP awards are the difference between Foundry and standard quests. Mob XP might need a tweak as well, per the above. But completion XP is just gonzo.
That's what I've noted anyways. I don't care if it's mob XP, or completion XP, or whatever they tweak. I'd just like Foundry quests to be a viable option for content (as per their mission statement on UGC). If their mission statement has changed, I'd love to hear the devs state what it is.
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thecainMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I'm personally not convinced that's the fix. I'm just noting that Foundry is terrible compared to doing standard content. About he only reason to use it during leveling is to fill in the last quarter of a bubble before hitting another area.
As another poster stated, the quest XP awards are the difference between Foundry and standard quests. Mob XP might need a tweak as well, per the above. But completion XP is just gonzo.
That's what I've noted anyways. I don't care if it's mob XP, or completion XP, or whatever they tweak. I'd just like Foundry quests to be a viable option for content (as per their mission statement on UGC). If their mission statement has changed, I'd love to hear the devs state what it is.
I'm seeing how I worded that now. I meant changing the limiter as in people thinking that the limiter is even needed and will fix it, and that changing it around will somehow cause it to work out, when the AI is the cause of all these problems. The limiter just breaks the thing, or punishes speedy players. I've changed it to reflect my original meaning.
Comments
I fail to see the relevance in this question. Cryptic content allows you to run it over and over and over. Matter of fact, a community moderator posted that Cryptic WANTS you to farm their content. You kinda have to to "earn" Astral Diamonds, right?
The problem I have(and I suspect others too, but they don't word it quite the same) is that a player who excels in builds and/or strategy is being penalized for that by a reduced xp/loot drop rate in Foundry missions if you exceed their arbitrary ratio of xp per time unit. Also, heaven forbid you create a Foundry mission that's just more efficient at farming xp/loot than one of Cryptic's "storyline" quests. I suspect that indeed, some butthurt storytellers got mad farms are more popular than their literary vomit.
Occam's Razor makes the cutting clean.
The relevance is that people make claims that I don't see confirmed when I play the game, so I was trying to figure out what these people do that I don't do, e.g. running the same, identical foundry quest back to back on the same day. I do different foundry quests (though I tend to stick to the same ones for the daily quest because I know how long those take me for certain) and I do get XP and I do get greens.
Just to clarify something here: I do not think any tweaks were needed. As I said before, people who want to skip content and get to 60 as fast as possible will always find ways to do this. They ruin the game for themselves, but I have no issues with this. My CW was 60 before the headstart was over, and I only quested, so, it's fast either way.
My only problem with the foundry farming was the massive spam it caused in the chat. I would have been fine with a solution like a specific foundry quest giving rewards and XP only once per day. Although, I don't really see a strong, negative impact on my foundry quest rewards as is.
Oh gosh........another PnP who just discovered MMOs.
Il tell you that, there is a beautiful game called champions online, it's full of people(maybe 100) who enjoy RP superheros, they even create a lore of their char and several alt's/account to role-play simultaneously. To make thing more intresting
I am not joking you should check that out, there is also a player who roleplay as an angel who only purpose of his gameplay is to ress people when they die doing duels.( I loved him)
But please...don't ruin this game, you have 0 knowledge of online gaming, and I am not saying it as an insult.
The things you like in your post are among the MOST boring aspect of an MMO and it's not an opinion, but a mater of fact....
I will go tru them one by one.
1)I like to play games for interesting adventures and stories.
Now it may be a good point, i like that too and a lot, problem is: This is an MMO not an Rpg, if you are searching for an adventure to fully immerse yourself try those 2 games. The Witcher and Mass effect. If you are a fan of lightsaber try out knight of the old republic.
2)I like lore.
I like lore too, however it has no impact on the Gameplay...most of the players prefer gameplay over lore.
3)I dont care if its end game or leveling, its the adventure.
Again there are several game who can provide you an adventure, MMO most important aspect is the end game. if it has fun leveling it's a very welcome plus.
4)I hate farming..
People LOVE farming..they just don't know it...farming is the most attractive part of an mmo for any competitive/cooperative player:
Leveling up?(You farm mob/quest)
Getting a shiny loot?(you farm dungeons)
Ranking up in pvp?(you farm battleground/pvp area)
I could go on with this formula for every aspect of the game, you and I...we are both crazy farmers like it or not.
5)I think rare loot should be something you feel proud to have not something everybody must have.
Well..opinions are opinions, I think rare loot should be a reward for an effort, pretty much a carrot on a stick...
I think you will love the legendary weapons on GW2.. while I could not care less for them.
6)I have already seen some "gearscore" <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> posted in chat and despair for those fools.
Oh there we go...i completely agree with you
No offense mate but you just described some browser roleplaying game that has nothing to do with an MMO.....
Peace.
ah there is your perfect game i will create it for you.
Legend of the adventurer.
you start at lvl 0, you don't gain level but lore point for every book you find and read in the world!
There are dungeon, but they are interactive and the combat is verbal, you just get asked question related to the lore to defeat the enemy!
When you complete a dungeon you have 100% chance to get an epic looking item and based on the time you complete the dungeon you get to write some note of your character on our epic adventurers wall!!
But you can only do the dungeon once so be prepared!
^^
Well... the truth about MMO's. Sorry, but it is. And this is who Cryptic has to appeal to if they want to make money.
@kmhknight
My campaign: The Madness Plague.
My quest: Blacklake Gold
My guild: "The Older" Age 30+, Casual
I don't agree fully. I think understanding that demographic is a bit more indepth than the rather simplistic way that was presented. That said I also think that the Foundry is a symbol of not having to cater to only ONE demographic, but allowing the players to generate the content THEY want to play. A good enough tag and search system lets the Foundry appeal to the story guys, the grind guys and everyone in between.
The "us vs them" doesn't help us.
What do you mean people that dont want to play my way. questing is what part of the game is. skipping everything possible is not. its not my way of playing its what an mmorpg is. so If you have something constructive to add please feel free.
Please keep sharing your comments, they help us make the game even better!
1)the xp reward needs to be reverted to it's first state
2)a different tab for hack and slash need to be implemented
3)enemy unable to fight back should go in evade
the foundry could be a beautiful tool for everyone taste, I hope this will happen
Sincerely
Eros.
1) I love the lore (didn't dig deep yet, but I like that I am part of a believable story, like you would read in fantasy books)
2) Gameplay mechanics is absolutely amazing, if you put away the bugs
3) Free to play and mostly not Pay to Win
4) Crafting System
5.) hard to respec (That's right kids, your decisions matter!)
6.) Challanging (Mad Dragon, more more more!)
7.) Professions (though a bit empty)
DISLIKE
1) Takes too much (boring) farming to get Zen
2) The very idea of DAILIES
3) Half the Community
SUGGESTIONS:
1) A history of the people you party up with (crashed a couple of times and wish I could remember that person) also for blacklisting purposes
IDEAS:
It would be nice to have the option to subscribe monthly and have all the zen stuff added to the droplists for you, but obviously that wouldn't be a simple implementation.
My findings:
Level 32 TR
net XP 2220
Net Coin 7.62 Silver
Item drops: 2 green, 1 white equipment, 1 green 2 white enchants, 2 potions, 1 scroll
didn't think to time my run unfortunately.
You should suggest providing this kind of info in the review.
Did you watch the log to see if at any point you failed to get xp for a kill? That is the only true test that is necessary in this case. If the nerf effects the map you will kill and get no xp at all in the log. I noticed it the couple times I ran it BUT I made the map, know all the placements and as such it makes all the data I would gather skewed. If you start failing to get XP it is the proof everyone keeps saying we don't have that the Nerf was excessive as the dungeon is based as closely on Cryptic design as can be gotten.. as I said, if anything it's slower than the Cryptic dungeon as the rooms I had to use are larger.
However I disagree that this is the only useful info to be gathered from the experiment. Yes, this shows that running the quest is not "as rewarding as it could possibly be" which is real problem. But net results are also good to gauge running a Foundry quest against standard content.
Information about items is also useful because some people are claiming they're getting the exact same items they got before while others are claiming they are spending more on resources than they are getting back. Actual numbers are useful to examine those claims.
I will try to run the thing again later and get more precise figures about how often I wasn't getting XP for kills. I appreciate what you're doing here and hope to see numbers from other players to improve the sample size.
It was an idea I had posted when the nerf first happened and we got the response "Cryptic content is the balance standard" and "most content should not be affected". I certainly understand the other numbers, but the proof is in the pudding as they say. If I've replicated their dungeon, with slower pacing due to longer distances between mob placements and you still hit the soft cap for xp over time then that means the nerf is so excessive their own content is NOT the balance standard.
I still think that an evade system for exploits and a group size scale is all that was necessary to resolve the issue. The idea that UGC allows the player to gather XP more quickly than live content is patently false unless UGC monsters are either weaker (thus easier to kill) or worth more XP. If an ogre in the 'Live' rewards players we'll say 100 xp then the one in UGC should do the same IF it is the same fight (which it should be). If the UGC author stacks 12 ogres in one place, and there is an exploit limiter so that all of the ogres must be able to fight or they go into an evade then the player still has to kill 12 ogres for that reward. In the case of the player bringing in his guildmates so they can rush the 12 ogres, a group size scale would increase it to additional ogres, elite versions (like we currently see in skirmishes and dungeons) or some other gradient that increases the difficulty for a group. If in fact it is "too easy" then the fix is not to limit xp but to fix why it's too easy.
That's why the dungeon was made, to show Cryptic their own content would suffer from this and that the fix shouldn't revolve around XP and loot but rather around Challenge Rating. Something that anyone developing a D&D based title should have been familiar with. An Ogre that is a Solo challenge for a 3rd level fighter is not the same challenge to a 3rd level party. This is the part that has gotten completely lost in the "D&D is a story telling tool" nonsense we've been seeing. D&D is not about the story, that is and has always been up to the GM. D&D is the conflict resolution system, and CR is how they've helped GM's keep encounters balanced for over a decade.
Evade..... why didn't they think of this!
Morokei's Stolen Property & Odoiel's Grand Maze. (Still under development)
Everyone plays the game in their own way. There are those that love to just grind to end-game, and have fun that way. There are those that like the questing. It is now virtually impossible to grind to end game -in any decent way- other than through the questing system.
There are those of us - myself included - that get bored of hearing/reading the same "please, go here, do this" over and over. If we play multiple classes, with the nerf, we would need to now. Not only that, but as new classes and races come in, and we either reroll our characters or create new ones, we have to do the same thing again.
Cryptic, I implore you, revert foundry rewards to the way the were. Sure, some people - myself included - will use it to grind to 60 - but we also have every right to do so. We are not violating the game, or getting an obscene number of astral diamonds or rare/ultra rare items or anything.
More importantly, however: With the changes you have made, anyone playing missions that other people have created, the ones that involve actual story content, also get virtually nothing from them. It makes foundry missions entirely not worth doing now. I have seen Cryptic do a lot of stupid things, before they have reverted them. I have also seen cryptic ignore the majority of the community on major issues. Please don't do that here.
It would have been quicker for them to implement the 30 levels of 4th Edition DnD, and simply scale xp so it takes just as long to get to 30 as it would to get to 60. It also would have been able to give us virtually all the content from PHB1 due to the reduction in development time in other areas.
1a: Make it so elite mobs can't be spawned on top of one another. There needs to be a certain radius that they have to be placed so they can't just spawn into crowd control.
1b: Be sure to make it so that if a mob is defeated first, a new mob can spawn after it.
2: Make it so there's a grind/EXP tab in the foundry. That way people wanting story can go story without getting buried by EXP farms.
3: Make it so if a mob can't path correctly to someone, the mobs can't be hurt/regenerate health. Try to find a way where this won't interfere with Control Wizards, seeing as a properly skilled Control Wizard can lock a foe down to the point they can't even get an attack off.
4: Try to remember that there will always be exploiters looking for the quickest way to get what they want. These people suck, but don't punish the majority because of the minority.
5: Amnesty for people who run said maps, so they're not afraid to come forward about exploits they find, and so testers can test the exploit maps and find out just what the exploit is, how it works, and if there's some way to break it.
6: Rewards for finding exploits that your staff can replicate. This does not mean rewards for finding exploit creating authors, otherwise the system WILL BE ABUSED. You don't want to get flooded.
7: Make it so mobs can run over traps. I've had mobs just stand in front of a trap, even though I was trying to get them to run over it (thinking I was all sneaky for it).
With those fixes in place, you could probably release the foundry without any sort of limits once again. Story Authors could have their stories at the top of the Lore Driven tab, people that want an EXP grind can grind like crazy, and everyone has fun without being a cheater.
Y'know, except for the cheaters, who need to get real friendly with a Giant's fist.
See and as a TR I want to know why I can't lead a monster across a trap to damage it.. I know it's there, but does it? God knows I've done this in PnP before. Hell I tried it on a Cryptic map very early on and was upset when it didn't work.
I know exploiters will exploit, but at what point are we cutting off our nose to spite our face?
I'm personally not convinced that's the fix. I'm just noting that Foundry is terrible compared to doing standard content. About he only reason to use it during leveling is to fill in the last quarter of a bubble before hitting another area.
As another poster stated, the quest XP awards are the difference between Foundry and standard quests. Mob XP might need a tweak as well, per the above. But completion XP is just gonzo.
That's what I've noted anyways. I don't care if it's mob XP, or completion XP, or whatever they tweak. I'd just like Foundry quests to be a viable option for content (as per their mission statement on UGC). If their mission statement has changed, I'd love to hear the devs state what it is.
I'm seeing how I worded that now. I meant changing the limiter as in people thinking that the limiter is even needed and will fix it, and that changing it around will somehow cause it to work out, when the AI is the cause of all these problems. The limiter just breaks the thing, or punishes speedy players. I've changed it to reflect my original meaning.