So wait, we aren't supposed to run foundry missions for the rewards but the rewards are supposed to be better than those offered in the main storyline?
Very likely WE will see.. wait, so you don't know what they are doing?
In short, I'm not a Dev and have no clue what they will do but have been instructed what the company line is regarding this GIANT PR gaffe of ruining the best part of our game. I've worked for these types of companies too long not to recognize that type of language that says absolutely nothing.
I said it before, they will either recant this as an "over correction" or say it's working as intended and write off the revenue from players who were drawn in specifically for the Foundry content.
That's the preference. Any changes which negatively effect the Foundry are done with a lot of trepadition.
The foundry is the staple of the game. It's the large part which separates it from the other MMO's.
Supporting the Foundry is one of their top priorities if it isn't the absolute top priority.
Rewards are important to playing content. However the Foundry is not intended to be a means to throw a bunch of mobs down and farm them for drops. It is designed to be an alternate and preferably enjoyable experience to the main story-line but it is not intended to be a shortcut route.
The game has to be balanced. People playing foundry content should not be gaining a large amount of experience more or less than players completing the main story arc.
The foundry is not intended to be a shortcut method to gaining gear and experience. Just an enjoyable alternative.
Certain quests have been hit hard which are those which can be rushed through by people only interested in killing mobs. While I Am Slayer is an absolutely awesome quest it is also a large amount of combat. It took me 30-45 minutes to play it through on my own the first time even while skipping decent chunks of the reading.
Despite this the quest had a 15 minute average playtime because players would blast through the combat and skip the conversations.
As Tilt said, while it's an awesome and solid quest this is one of the hard hit quests by any change to the system. It's simply an easy quest to burn through and farm so, yes, it ends up getting a much lower loot rating than it truly deserves for those playing the quest for the first time or as a solo player.
So again, a hack and slash quest/missions such as I am Slayer is perfectly fine to make. In fact it's obviously a lot of fun.
But missions with low completion times and a lot of combat will ultimately suffer due to the nature of the foundry. Cryptic will do everything they can to give the best possible rewards to quests but sadly that can only go so far without destroying the game's balance.
All I can say with certainty is that the intent of the Foundry is to get the best possible rewards for those using it to create balanced and entertaining content.
If we didn't have exploiters looking to find "cheat codes" to max levels this wouldn't be nearly as hard to manage from a developmental standpoint. The reason the limitations and automations exist are to preserve the balance of the game. It's those that try to destroy the balance of the game which hurt the quality content developers such as izatar.
I think I love you.
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asmatiMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 10Arc User
MMO companies are fairly notorious for pulling this exact maneuver - saying one thing before release, then AFTER they break the game with knee-jerk nerfs and changes, they are completely silent about the issues and nothing ever changes.
So until we have official word that this isn't going to be the state of the Foundry forevermore, I am pretty unconvinced. There was a high profile MMO that did basically the same exact thing not too long ago... selling their fans on a design for the game (over the course of 5 years), then immediately abandoning it and replacing it with a design that is the precise opposite of the design they advertised and sold players on, shortly after release.
Yeah I felt the same way about Star Wars: The Old Republic too. LOL:D
This has always been the case for short quests. Play a longer one. You'll find they contain as many green items as they used to. Not that these rewards have ever been good, but that's a different discussion.
The best part of this is the most played foundry quest as far as repeat content for me is.. From the Shadows.. your own campaign. While not amazing due to some oversights you made it's enjoyable. Or it was when I was getting rewarded for it. Now that I get xp from only half the combat encounters, and even less loot it costs me more to run this than I can make playing it.
Seems that one of the chief "storytellers" has had their own creation nerfed too. You can repeatedly claim that the only people effected were those creating exploit quests but as your own was effected you should realize that includes you.
Do you crave a good old fashioned dungeon crawl? One where the dungeon tells it's own story? The Dungeon Delves campaign is just for you! Start with my first release: NW-DQF4T7QYH Any cave can lead to adventure!
Seems that one of the chief "storytellers" has had their own creation nerfed too. You can repeatedly claim that the only people effected were those creating exploit quests but as your own was effected you should realize that includes you.
Well then you are the same as the creators of the exploit maps you have railed against for farming. As such you as well should recieve the full punishment you've stated they should receive..
... OR perhaps you should realize that there was a significant over reaction that needs to be addressed and stop claiming there wasn't.
Do you crave a good old fashioned dungeon crawl? One where the dungeon tells it's own story? The Dungeon Delves campaign is just for you! Start with my first release: NW-DQF4T7QYH Any cave can lead to adventure!
Well then you are the same as the creators of the exploit maps you have railed against for farming. As such you as well should recieve the full punishment you've stated they should receive..
... OR perhaps you should realize that there was a significant over reaction that needs to be addressed and stop claiming there wasn't.
I honestly don't follow your logic at all. There's a huge leap in your reasoning that leaves me wondering how on earth you managed to turn "doesn't care whether he's affected by nerfing" into "has built an exploit map". I'm sure you're very eager to explain.
Well then you are the same as the creators of the exploit maps you have railed against for farming. As such you as well should recieve the full punishment you've stated they should receive..
... OR perhaps you should realize that there was a significant over reaction that needs to be addressed and stop claiming there wasn't.
But punishment will be happening less people will play these story maps. The average Joe cant be bothered with text. And with no real rewards, well obvious end result is obvious. Sad but true :<
Well then you are the same as the creators of the exploit maps you have railed against for farming. As such you as well should recieve the full punishment you've stated they should receive..
... OR perhaps you should realize that there was a significant over reaction that needs to be addressed and stop claiming there wasn't.
"I am Slayer" suffered hard from the change NOT because it was a grind fest. it is as long quest IF YOU PLAY IT AS INTENDED (i.e read! what a concept).
However, due to all the players that just want to GRIND GRIND GRIND GRIND they skipped all the dialogue, went right to the killing, of which there is a lot, and shortened the average play time WELL BELOW what it should be. In doing so, they also hit this 5 minute penalty box of XP quickly.
If people played "I am Slayer" as intended, they would have zero problems with the Foundry changes. People have to learn to own up to their own issues. If your hitting an XP cap, then look at the reason why. It is most likely because your are rushing through content faster then intended by skipping all the hard work the author has put into telling a story.
And here lies the over all issue.
There are thousands of grind fest MMO's with zero story out there. But only one MMO that lets players bring the story BACK INTO the MMO, yet all the grindcore players call US selfish for wanting to maintain the ONLY GAME we can do that with? The fact is, there is not a single game that caters to OUR playstyle, but a thousand that cater to everyone elses. So leave our game alone!
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kamaliiciousMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 0Arc User
You are right. I don't care in the slightest if exploiters get less enjoyment out of the game. They are neither the type of player I want to play with, nor the type of player I want to make Foundry quests for. They have nothing to do with me and their way of playing the game is obviously (based on Cryptic's own statements) against the developers' intent.
I don't see how that makes me wrong.
Here you state that the people making such content are in your view and that of Cryptic outside the intent of the Foundry.
Thus, either they overreacted which caused YOUR content to also get nerfed OR you are a designer outside the intent of the content and should be treated in the same as all others who are outside that intent. This is not my logic, it is yours.
Do you crave a good old fashioned dungeon crawl? One where the dungeon tells it's own story? The Dungeon Delves campaign is just for you! Start with my first release: NW-DQF4T7QYH Any cave can lead to adventure!
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necrofobicMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 46Arc User
edited May 2013
i really hope its a temp fix... chances are slim but hey wierder things have happened
There are thousands of grind fest MMO's with zero story out there. But only one MMO that lets players bring the story BACK INTO the MMO, yet all the grindcore players call US selfish for wanting to maintain the ONLY GAME we can do that with? The fact is, there is not a single game that caters to OUR playstyle, but a thousand that cater to everyone elses. So leave our game alone!
The people who created more popular content than yours are not to blame nor are the players who want to be rewarded for their time playing through your content and that of others. You being allowed to craft a story does not preclude allowing those who enjoy combat to play that way as well. You seem to completely MISS the fact that Cryptic's intent was to allow players to create and enjoy the content THEY like and enjoy, regardless of it's type. There is plenty of room for you to have your cookie and everyone else to have one too. There aren't a limited number of cookies available.
Do you crave a good old fashioned dungeon crawl? One where the dungeon tells it's own story? The Dungeon Delves campaign is just for you! Start with my first release: NW-DQF4T7QYH Any cave can lead to adventure!
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ravenousfireMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 12Arc User
So, rounding up rooms full of enemies and herding them to one location for AoE's to take them out in one fell swoop is farming, and therefore bad?
Why is it allowed in the actual game content then and not the Foundry? What is the difference, really?
Is it more that the "storytellers" are hurt because people prefer farms to their "shining jewels of literary content"?
I've been on teams in dungeon runs that literally MELT mobs. Nothing stood against us for more than.....sixty seconds to perhaps a minute and a half. WHOLE ROOMS. Dozens of mobs consisting of minions, LT's and bosses. IN NORMAL GAME CONTENT. Why is it alright to exceed some "intended experience gain rate" in content Cryptic designed but not in Foundry content? Especially if said Foundry content is not exploitative in nature, but simply another "round em up and mow them down" type like developer created dungeon runs?
Double standards do not end well. I'm no farmer, but I'm also not going to tell someone to play the game my way or go home. Let the farmers have their maps. Add hash tags to story content so it is easily found by those that want to stroke literary egos, and those that just want to mindlessly kill mobs do just that. Problem solved. Make such things easily found in the Foundry by those that seek it.
I see no one has responded to the part in red, probably because it makes sense and that is a forum no no. The flame war about this is getting ridiculous. People just want different types of content, but it seems like forcing things into a box is what the loud minority want. I was excited about making Foundry quests, but when I learned about some of the limitations and now the xp and loot nerfs, what about companion xp, that's really horrible at 60, 60+ mobs in dungeons don't throw out enough xp to make their xp bar jump much.
I wish the yellow part was more the norm, letting people play the way they want instead of trying to force the community to adhere to a single play style.
I don't care too much about farm grinding mobs, but I don't really care if people want to blast their way to 60, it doesn't affect me at all. The net resulting injury to my character = 0, to my story = 0. I don't know what's unbalancing about grinding up to 60, I couldn't care less, and I know a decent number of people who feel the same way.
As for those people going on about story...To be honest, I and almost all of my guildies so far, skipped almost all of the story in this game. I let the NPC's talk, but I turned them down, some of my guild mates just turned them off. I just wanted to run some dungeons with my friends who started playing a few days earlier than me, and that has been echoed by others outside my guild. As a PnP Rp'er with years of RP under my belt, I don't understand this attitude of boxing people into playing one way.
I DM'd and GM'd and ST'd and all the other types of Mastering for hundreds of episodes in multiple PnP games and for multiple groups of different friends. One thing I can say from that experience is that no two people enjoy a game the same way. Some want more story, some less, some just want shiny **** to put on their character, some want a title, some just want you to narrate what their character did as bad-*** and let them put points in their stats. It takes all kinds.
Some games I care about the story, and I found some of the Foundry quests to be cool, some were wordy, but neat. I tipped them and starred them appropriately for their efforts, but sometimes blowing stuff up can be fun too. If I can gain 9000 xp in 10 minutes with the main story arc, I think that sort of xp should be in the Foundry also, and right now it's not.
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kamaliiciousMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 0Arc User
There are thousands of grind fest MMO's with zero story out there. But only one MMO that lets players bring the story BACK INTO the MMO, yet all the grindcore players call US selfish for wanting to maintain the ONLY GAME we can do that with? The fact is, there is not a single game that caters to OUR playstyle, but a thousand that cater to everyone elses. So leave our game alone!
The COO of Cryptic says players will build the content they like to play.
Just today I had a Cryptic quest in Ebon Downs to "kill 60 zombies", which happened to be conveniently grouped for easy AoE. Doesn't get any more grindy than that.
You're perfectly welcome to play the ten hour campaign I made that can be completed without killing anything, or even equipping a weapon.
"I am Slayer" suffered hard from the change NOT because it was a grind fest. it is as long quest IF YOU PLAY IT AS INTENDED (i.e read! what a concept).
However, due to all the players that just want to GRIND GRIND GRIND GRIND they skipped all the dialogue, went right to the killing, of which there is a lot, and shortened the average play time WELL BELOW what it should be. In doing so, they also hit this 5 minute penalty box of XP quickly.
If people played "I am Slayer" as intended, they would have zero problems with the Foundry changes. People have to learn to own up to their own issues. If your hitting an XP cap, then look at the reason why. It is most likely because your are rushing through content faster then intended by skipping all the hard work the author has put into telling a story.
And here lies the over all issue.
There are thousands of grind fest MMO's with zero story out there. But only one MMO that lets players bring the story BACK INTO the MMO, yet all the grindcore players call US selfish for wanting to maintain the ONLY GAME we can do that with? The fact is, there is not a single game that caters to OUR playstyle, but a thousand that cater to everyone elses. So leave our game alone!
people own up to their issue? you and the exp cap are the issue. not the majority that does not want to read walls of text.
i went through all the quest lines in the game and listened word for word those that had voice overs.. will i do it again? no.....
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kendokkenMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 15Arc User
edited May 2013
Foundry was the only thing in this game worth playing. Some of those guys did a great job on their missions, helluva lot better than the Devs do on their 'fetch me 5 of this' BS quests.
There was no reason to nerf the xp and almost completely remove the already crappy loot drops. we already couldn't get any gear worth a ****, no group content, no bosses, and now we can't even get potions and scrolls and the occasional green item that would only be useful for 1 or 2 levels anyway?
IMO if you are actually fighting a mob (i.e. it can fight back), whether it is in the foundry or on one of Cryptics maps, you should get the same end result.
The only thing they NEEDED to do was fix the exploit HAMSTER with trapping mobs so they couldn't fight back. and ban the jagoffs that created them for doing such an obvious exploit to begin with.
It takes all of 40ish hours to hit 60 doing quests anyway. Who the hell cares if people are grinding that xp in a foundry map or not.
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
edited May 2013
The difference is that Cryptic balanced that content to an appropriate level and hand selected rewards that were appropriate for a balanced dungeon.
They can't do that for every foundry mission. The task they have is to automate a system which tries to place an appropriate reward for the effort it takes to complete dungeons.
No matter how many mobs are in the dungeon, if you complete the dungeon within 15 minutes it couldn't have been very hard and therefore you are rewarded with 15 minutes worth of reward. Sadly that might not be much.
The Foundry is not a story only tool but it's not designed to throw a bunch of mobs down to farm. You can do that if you wish but Then you should not expect a very high quality reward.
The Foundry was designed with the intention of supporting supporting various play styles but that can only go so far. It is not a cheat button to get massive amount of experience or drops in a short amount of time.
If you want to make a dungeon such as Cryptic Dungeons and get good rewards for the time the first thing you will have to do is trying to slow down the zerging in whichever way possible. The amount of time it takes to complete content plays a major role in whether the content deserves a quality reward or not.
Rushing through Foundry content as fast as possible is what kills the reward drops from the content.
XP has changed. I'm leveling the CW entirely through Foundry content, so I'll post hard numbers tonight. However, fact remains that (it's not even anecdotal) I got 6 bubbles from "tutorial" quests (which were giving level 9, 10 and 11 rewards to a level 15 character) and 2 bubbles from a Foundry quest which took 4 times as long, and was scaled to my level (15).
Ok so I did a foundry tonight, Crypts of Carnage (NW-DQQDOB9CO) had never played it before, took about 20 min. I got about 15 xp bubbles, 4 green items, 3 enchantments, 7 white items, 3 ident scrolls and 4 potions. Seems fine to me.
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kamaliiciousMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 0Arc User
The difference is that Cryptic balanced that content to an appropriate level and hand selected rewards that were appropriate for a balanced dungeon.
I did a Cryptic quest today that was "kill 60 zombies", which is only barely paraphrasing what the HUD journal said (it may have said 'kill zombies: 0/60'). They were conveniently clumped together in large groups. I can't see how that's any different than the farm quests people are complaining about.
There's another Cryptic one that's "kill 25 bandits", it's repeatable in mid 20's level (Blackdagger Ruins) and gives more quest xp than I get for the typical upper 30's official quest. Going there in the upper 30's, the bandits don't attack you unless you attack first (you can stand next to them, no aggro), and since you're so much higher level, 1-2 shot them.
Following the official questline, you wind up in Blackdagger several levels below the first Blackdagger enemies you encounter. You have to grind to get to an appropriate level.
Grinding and "farms" are a part of Cryptic content.
I did a Cryptic quest today that was "kill 60 zombies", which is only barely paraphrasing what the HUD journal said (it may have said 'kill zombies: 0/60'. They were conveniently clumped together in large groups. I can't see how that's any different than the farm quests people are complaining about.
There's another Cryptic one that's "kill 25 bandits", it's repeatable in mid 20's level (Blackdagger Ruins) and gives more quest xp than I get for the typical upper 30's official quest. Going there in the upper 30's, the bandits don't attack you unless you attack first (you can stand next to them, no aggro), and since you're so much higher level, 1-2 shot them.
Following the official questline, you wind up in Blackdagger several levels below the first Blackdagger enemies you encounter. You have to grind to get to an appropriate level.
Grinding and farming are a part of Cryptic content.
Then Cryptic have to do a lot better, it is good to hold them to a higher standard. You should continue doing so rather than arguing for the bar to be dropped.
There are thousands of grind fest MMO's with zero story out there. But only one MMO that lets players bring the story BACK INTO the MMO, yet all the grindcore players call US selfish for wanting to maintain the ONLY GAME we can do that with? The fact is, there is not a single game that caters to OUR playstyle, but a thousand that cater to everyone elses. So leave our game alone!
Are you serious when you say theres only one mmo that lets players tell stories? SERIOUSLY!? CoH HAD the foundry of sorts and Star Trek Online and still has it. Neverwinter isnt the only mmo to offer user generated content and its sure as hell isnt the first Cryptic game to offer it and I am sure many a poster will point out other MMO's that have the same sort of thing. HECK theres even Second Life that whole game is user made. You are delusional and its obvious that you don't know what your talking about.
It ain't your game. FTP is for everyone. I am calling you selfish and I am far from a grinder hell my CW is only level 24 after a week of play ( mostly down to RPing with buddies). I have a few foundry stories made but I wont publish them. They wont get played by the masses so theres no point there is no incentive for them to play them. I like to make missions for EVERYONE not a few. The cry crying about stupid ogre missions ruined the foundry more than the stupid ogre missions themselves.
I didn't like the grinder missions do you know what I did. I didn't play them. It was that simple.
May I ask have you created content for STO? CoH? I am just curious.
Then Cryptic have to do a lot better, it is good to hold them to a higher standard. You should continue doing so rather than arguing for the bar to be dropped.
I'm only arguing that players should be able to play the content they want. After all, it was a specific powerpoint point from Cryptic's COO in his GDC presentation. My own content is highly wordy, I released a campaign (for another game) with 200,000 words and the entire campaign requires no killing at all, you never even have to equip a weapon. People have to refer to the dictionary I included because about half of that is untranslated historically accurate Thieves Cant. Can't get much more story heavy than that.
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ravenousfireMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 12Arc User
I did a Cryptic quest today that was "kill 60 zombies", which is only barely paraphrasing what the HUD journal said (it may have said 'kill zombies: 0/60'. They were conveniently clumped together in large groups. I can't see how that's any different than the farm quests people are complaining about.
There's another Cryptic one that's "kill 25 bandits", it's repeatable in mid 20's level (Blackdagger Ruins) and gives more quest xp than I get for the typical upper 30's official quest. Going there in the upper 30's, the bandits don't attack you unless you attack first (you can stand next to them, no aggro), and since you're so much higher level, 1-2 shot them.
Following the official questline, you wind up in Blackdagger several levels below the first Blackdagger enemies you encounter. You have to grind to get to an appropriate level.
Grinding and farming are a part of Cryptic content.
It's 40, takes about 5 min and rewards 1500 xp + mob kills and all the greens you can handle, at a point in the game where that is a big chunk of xp, from what I saw infinitely repeatable...
I would like the Ambisinisterr to know, that this has been the fastest quest xp of any MMO yet, in my personal experience. All of my guildies comment the same...fastest of any game yet on the story side, but the story isn't that engaging so they just skip it and go on to do the task at hand. The fast xp doesn't make the game more fun, only easier to get through. Don't get me wrong, we are fine with the pace of it, because we feel most MMO quests are too grindy...
I could go into a whole spiel about loot drops, greens being too common in Cryptic Areas, gold being nearly worthless, etc. that are also part of this Foundry discussion but will spare you the rant and possible off-topic discussion.
Point is, balance seems to be lax in this game already...as compared to other MMO's. *experienced by myself and other mates
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kamaliiciousMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 0Arc User
It's 40, takes about 5 min and rewards 1500 xp + mob kills and all the greens you can handle, at a point in the game where that is a big chunk of xp, from what I saw infinitely repeatable...
The bandits? My memory is bad, I did Blackdagger before open beta began (Foundry beta users got early access so we could fix any quest problems in our quests that turned up during the HotN early period).
Then Cryptic have to do a lot better, it is good to hold them to a higher standard. You should continue doing so rather than arguing for the bar to be dropped.
The Cryptic COO said they want the content from the UGC to be BETTER than the content they produce. That it will be the content the player base wants. I want to hold them to THAT standard. And while I can understand the argument that reward should represent effort, ala:
The difference is that Cryptic balanced that content to an appropriate level and hand selected rewards that were appropriate for a balanced dungeon.
They can't do that for every foundry mission. The task they have is to automate a system which tries to place an appropriate reward for the effort it takes to complete dungeons.
No matter how many mobs are in the dungeon, if you complete the dungeon within 15 minutes it couldn't have been very hard and therefore you are rewarded with 15 minutes worth of reward. Sadly that might not be much.
I have no choice but to call BS. If I take my character and go into any zone I can slam through that zone killing everything in my path and receive loot regardless of my level vs that of the opponent. Thus I can "farm" loot far below my level with no constraing regarding my effort, yet in the foundry where all opponents are auto leveled to be a challenge by the system I am penalized. The excuse that my effort is not on par to the level of effort required is altogether a cop out.
I have played "I am slayer". I personally find the story to be very transparent. From the first time I played it I considered it an xp farm rather than a lore interaction. I supplied feedback that due to the transparency of the story you are stuck pretending to be fooled for most of the mission until the twist is revealed and that the author should take that into consideration. I read each dialog, made choices based on how I felt my character would react and still I get punished with reduced loot drops as well as some mobs failing to provide XP despite taking the EXACT same level of effort to defeat as they would have in live content.
No, it is very apparent that a vocal minority created a stir on the forums because their content was less popular than the farm/grind content. It is very apparent that the Cryptic said previously there would be categories for Farm content and that Farm content was not an issue. It is EXTREMELY apparent that exploits are unacceptable regardless of how they are achieved. Unfortunately it is also now apparent that in reaction to the complaints as well as a knee jerk reaction to the exploits this horrible band aid was put in place and they are trying to justify it.
Do you crave a good old fashioned dungeon crawl? One where the dungeon tells it's own story? The Dungeon Delves campaign is just for you! Start with my first release: NW-DQF4T7QYH Any cave can lead to adventure!
Are you serious when you say theres only one mmo that lets players tell stories? SERIOUSLY!? CoH HAD the foundry of sorts and Star Trek Online and still has it. Neverwinter isnt the only mmo to offer user generated content and its sure as hell isnt the first Cryptic game to offer it and I am sure many a poster will point out other MMO's that have the same sort of thing. HECK theres even Second Life that whole game is user made. You are delusional and its obvious that you don't know what your talking about.
It ain't your game. FTP is for everyone. I am calling you selfish and I am far from a grinder hell my CW is only level 24 after a week of play ( mostly down to RPing with buddies). I have a few foundry stories made but I wont publish them. They wont get played by the masses so theres no point there is no incentive for them to play them. I like to make missions for EVERYONE not a few. The cry crying about stupid ogre missions ruined the foundry more than the stupid ogre missions themselves.
I didn't like the grinder missions do you know what I did. I didn't play them. It was that simple.
May I ask have you created content for STO? CoH? I am just curious.
I am one of the "PnP fan fic geeks" and I think the nerf is BS :<
Quoted for Truth!
30+ years of GMing for family, friends, and professionally
Multiple stories in notebooks waiting to be created in the foundry
0 published works here until the foundry is fixed back to a useful level so players can enjoy my content.
Do you crave a good old fashioned dungeon crawl? One where the dungeon tells it's own story? The Dungeon Delves campaign is just for you! Start with my first release: NW-DQF4T7QYH Any cave can lead to adventure!
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cathgar457Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 5Arc User
edited May 2013
I have just completed 2 foundries and the chest at the end in both gave no reward?
Comments
This made me LOL.
It means I can expect more Dev content in the future, and I am sure Cryptic will keep working o it and roll back some of the negative issue.
Fyi: Champs players are extremely bitter, to tbe point of bias.
Be wary of their statements.
I think I love you.
Sad but true.
Yeah I felt the same way about Star Wars: The Old Republic too. LOL:D
Hold up ur a champs player you must be extremely bitter to the point of bias.
I will be wary of your statements. Thanks for the heads up
Also OHAI!
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
The best part of this is the most played foundry quest as far as repeat content for me is.. From the Shadows.. your own campaign. While not amazing due to some oversights you made it's enjoyable. Or it was when I was getting rewarded for it. Now that I get xp from only half the combat encounters, and even less loot it costs me more to run this than I can make playing it.
Seems that one of the chief "storytellers" has had their own creation nerfed too. You can repeatedly claim that the only people effected were those creating exploit quests but as your own was effected you should realize that includes you.
And so what?
Well then you are the same as the creators of the exploit maps you have railed against for farming. As such you as well should recieve the full punishment you've stated they should receive..
... OR perhaps you should realize that there was a significant over reaction that needs to be addressed and stop claiming there wasn't.
I honestly don't follow your logic at all. There's a huge leap in your reasoning that leaves me wondering how on earth you managed to turn "doesn't care whether he's affected by nerfing" into "has built an exploit map". I'm sure you're very eager to explain.
But punishment will be happening less people will play these story maps. The average Joe cant be bothered with text. And with no real rewards, well obvious end result is obvious. Sad but true :<
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
"I am Slayer" suffered hard from the change NOT because it was a grind fest. it is as long quest IF YOU PLAY IT AS INTENDED (i.e read! what a concept).
However, due to all the players that just want to GRIND GRIND GRIND GRIND they skipped all the dialogue, went right to the killing, of which there is a lot, and shortened the average play time WELL BELOW what it should be. In doing so, they also hit this 5 minute penalty box of XP quickly.
If people played "I am Slayer" as intended, they would have zero problems with the Foundry changes. People have to learn to own up to their own issues. If your hitting an XP cap, then look at the reason why. It is most likely because your are rushing through content faster then intended by skipping all the hard work the author has put into telling a story.
And here lies the over all issue.
There are thousands of grind fest MMO's with zero story out there. But only one MMO that lets players bring the story BACK INTO the MMO, yet all the grindcore players call US selfish for wanting to maintain the ONLY GAME we can do that with? The fact is, there is not a single game that caters to OUR playstyle, but a thousand that cater to everyone elses. So leave our game alone!
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?204312-Foundry-Nerf-and-Items&p=2774991&viewfull=1#post2774991
I think the point was that your own quest was nerfed when you say that normal Foundry content is not nerfed.
Here you state that exploits and farm maps are to be treated the same.
Here you state that the people making such content are in your view and that of Cryptic outside the intent of the Foundry.
Thus, either they overreacted which caused YOUR content to also get nerfed OR you are a designer outside the intent of the content and should be treated in the same as all others who are outside that intent. This is not my logic, it is yours.
The people who created more popular content than yours are not to blame nor are the players who want to be rewarded for their time playing through your content and that of others. You being allowed to craft a story does not preclude allowing those who enjoy combat to play that way as well. You seem to completely MISS the fact that Cryptic's intent was to allow players to create and enjoy the content THEY like and enjoy, regardless of it's type. There is plenty of room for you to have your cookie and everyone else to have one too. There aren't a limited number of cookies available.
I see no one has responded to the part in red, probably because it makes sense and that is a forum no no. The flame war about this is getting ridiculous. People just want different types of content, but it seems like forcing things into a box is what the loud minority want. I was excited about making Foundry quests, but when I learned about some of the limitations and now the xp and loot nerfs, what about companion xp, that's really horrible at 60, 60+ mobs in dungeons don't throw out enough xp to make their xp bar jump much.
I wish the yellow part was more the norm, letting people play the way they want instead of trying to force the community to adhere to a single play style.
I don't care too much about farm grinding mobs, but I don't really care if people want to blast their way to 60, it doesn't affect me at all. The net resulting injury to my character = 0, to my story = 0. I don't know what's unbalancing about grinding up to 60, I couldn't care less, and I know a decent number of people who feel the same way.
As for those people going on about story...To be honest, I and almost all of my guildies so far, skipped almost all of the story in this game. I let the NPC's talk, but I turned them down, some of my guild mates just turned them off. I just wanted to run some dungeons with my friends who started playing a few days earlier than me, and that has been echoed by others outside my guild. As a PnP Rp'er with years of RP under my belt, I don't understand this attitude of boxing people into playing one way.
I DM'd and GM'd and ST'd and all the other types of Mastering for hundreds of episodes in multiple PnP games and for multiple groups of different friends. One thing I can say from that experience is that no two people enjoy a game the same way. Some want more story, some less, some just want shiny **** to put on their character, some want a title, some just want you to narrate what their character did as bad-*** and let them put points in their stats. It takes all kinds.
Some games I care about the story, and I found some of the Foundry quests to be cool, some were wordy, but neat. I tipped them and starred them appropriately for their efforts, but sometimes blowing stuff up can be fun too. If I can gain 9000 xp in 10 minutes with the main story arc, I think that sort of xp should be in the Foundry also, and right now it's not.
Just today I had a Cryptic quest in Ebon Downs to "kill 60 zombies", which happened to be conveniently grouped for easy AoE. Doesn't get any more grindy than that.
You're perfectly welcome to play the ten hour campaign I made that can be completed without killing anything, or even equipping a weapon.
people own up to their issue? you and the exp cap are the issue. not the majority that does not want to read walls of text.
i went through all the quest lines in the game and listened word for word those that had voice overs.. will i do it again? no.....
There was no reason to nerf the xp and almost completely remove the already crappy loot drops. we already couldn't get any gear worth a ****, no group content, no bosses, and now we can't even get potions and scrolls and the occasional green item that would only be useful for 1 or 2 levels anyway?
IMO if you are actually fighting a mob (i.e. it can fight back), whether it is in the foundry or on one of Cryptics maps, you should get the same end result.
The only thing they NEEDED to do was fix the exploit HAMSTER with trapping mobs so they couldn't fight back. and ban the jagoffs that created them for doing such an obvious exploit to begin with.
It takes all of 40ish hours to hit 60 doing quests anyway. Who the hell cares if people are grinding that xp in a foundry map or not.
They can't do that for every foundry mission. The task they have is to automate a system which tries to place an appropriate reward for the effort it takes to complete dungeons.
No matter how many mobs are in the dungeon, if you complete the dungeon within 15 minutes it couldn't have been very hard and therefore you are rewarded with 15 minutes worth of reward. Sadly that might not be much.
The Foundry is not a story only tool but it's not designed to throw a bunch of mobs down to farm. You can do that if you wish but Then you should not expect a very high quality reward.
The Foundry was designed with the intention of supporting supporting various play styles but that can only go so far. It is not a cheat button to get massive amount of experience or drops in a short amount of time.
If you want to make a dungeon such as Cryptic Dungeons and get good rewards for the time the first thing you will have to do is trying to slow down the zerging in whichever way possible. The amount of time it takes to complete content plays a major role in whether the content deserves a quality reward or not.
Rushing through Foundry content as fast as possible is what kills the reward drops from the content.
Ok so I did a foundry tonight, Crypts of Carnage (NW-DQQDOB9CO) had never played it before, took about 20 min. I got about 15 xp bubbles, 4 green items, 3 enchantments, 7 white items, 3 ident scrolls and 4 potions. Seems fine to me.
There's another Cryptic one that's "kill 25 bandits", it's repeatable in mid 20's level (Blackdagger Ruins) and gives more quest xp than I get for the typical upper 30's official quest. Going there in the upper 30's, the bandits don't attack you unless you attack first (you can stand next to them, no aggro), and since you're so much higher level, 1-2 shot them.
Following the official questline, you wind up in Blackdagger several levels below the first Blackdagger enemies you encounter. You have to grind to get to an appropriate level.
Grinding and "farms" are a part of Cryptic content.
Then Cryptic have to do a lot better, it is good to hold them to a higher standard. You should continue doing so rather than arguing for the bar to be dropped.
Are you serious when you say theres only one mmo that lets players tell stories? SERIOUSLY!? CoH HAD the foundry of sorts and Star Trek Online and still has it. Neverwinter isnt the only mmo to offer user generated content and its sure as hell isnt the first Cryptic game to offer it and I am sure many a poster will point out other MMO's that have the same sort of thing. HECK theres even Second Life that whole game is user made. You are delusional and its obvious that you don't know what your talking about.
It ain't your game. FTP is for everyone. I am calling you selfish and I am far from a grinder hell my CW is only level 24 after a week of play ( mostly down to RPing with buddies). I have a few foundry stories made but I wont publish them. They wont get played by the masses so theres no point there is no incentive for them to play them. I like to make missions for EVERYONE not a few. The cry crying about stupid ogre missions ruined the foundry more than the stupid ogre missions themselves.
I didn't like the grinder missions do you know what I did. I didn't play them. It was that simple.
May I ask have you created content for STO? CoH? I am just curious.
And just so you know I have come up with daft roleplay stories myself http://www.primusdatabase.com/index.php?title=Nepht <
CORP PRIMUS PAGE. Just so no one mistakes me for an "evil grinder"
I am one of the "PnP fan fic geeks" and I think the nerf is BS :<
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
It's 40, takes about 5 min and rewards 1500 xp + mob kills and all the greens you can handle, at a point in the game where that is a big chunk of xp, from what I saw infinitely repeatable...
I would like the Ambisinisterr to know, that this has been the fastest quest xp of any MMO yet, in my personal experience. All of my guildies comment the same...fastest of any game yet on the story side, but the story isn't that engaging so they just skip it and go on to do the task at hand. The fast xp doesn't make the game more fun, only easier to get through. Don't get me wrong, we are fine with the pace of it, because we feel most MMO quests are too grindy...
I could go into a whole spiel about loot drops, greens being too common in Cryptic Areas, gold being nearly worthless, etc. that are also part of this Foundry discussion but will spare you the rant and possible off-topic discussion.
Point is, balance seems to be lax in this game already...as compared to other MMO's. *experienced by myself and other mates
The Cryptic COO said they want the content from the UGC to be BETTER than the content they produce. That it will be the content the player base wants. I want to hold them to THAT standard. And while I can understand the argument that reward should represent effort, ala:
I have no choice but to call BS. If I take my character and go into any zone I can slam through that zone killing everything in my path and receive loot regardless of my level vs that of the opponent. Thus I can "farm" loot far below my level with no constraing regarding my effort, yet in the foundry where all opponents are auto leveled to be a challenge by the system I am penalized. The excuse that my effort is not on par to the level of effort required is altogether a cop out.
I have played "I am slayer". I personally find the story to be very transparent. From the first time I played it I considered it an xp farm rather than a lore interaction. I supplied feedback that due to the transparency of the story you are stuck pretending to be fooled for most of the mission until the twist is revealed and that the author should take that into consideration. I read each dialog, made choices based on how I felt my character would react and still I get punished with reduced loot drops as well as some mobs failing to provide XP despite taking the EXACT same level of effort to defeat as they would have in live content.
No, it is very apparent that a vocal minority created a stir on the forums because their content was less popular than the farm/grind content. It is very apparent that the Cryptic said previously there would be categories for Farm content and that Farm content was not an issue. It is EXTREMELY apparent that exploits are unacceptable regardless of how they are achieved. Unfortunately it is also now apparent that in reaction to the complaints as well as a knee jerk reaction to the exploits this horrible band aid was put in place and they are trying to justify it.
Quoted for Truth!
30+ years of GMing for family, friends, and professionally
Multiple stories in notebooks waiting to be created in the foundry
0 published works here until the foundry is fixed back to a useful level so players can enjoy my content.