One thing I keep seeing people do in this thread is confuse Damage and Damage Per Second.
I totally agree rogues should be the class with the highest DPS out of the classes currently in game. However I don't believe that rogues should always top the Damage charts. I'm specifically talking about PvE here, dungeons. CW or GWF should be near or beating rogues in those situations because they are attacking MANY targets, while the TR should do TONS more damage to the boss.
Currently however fill a room with 50 monsters and see who kills them all first AE class or TR. TR should get stomped due to this 'glass cannon' everyone keeps talking about, but they won’t, they will destroy the whole room in half the time the AE class does. Do the same thing with one single boss monster with gobs of HP, the TR will destroy it in a quarter of the time the AE class does and this is fine, that's their purpose.
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blacksuntyrant1Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 10Arc User
If you aren't on top as a CW, you are doing CW DPS wrong. Go full AOE and watch the damage numbers skyrocket as you wipe adds before a rogue can even touch them. I am ALWAYS on the top of damage, if not I am near enough that I don't care. CW should not ever be focusing on single target damage.
This guy knows quite a few things. I'm nowhere near max, but, the only time I am not way ahead in DPS as a CW is when things go bad on a boss and I have to pull control hijinks out my bum to let everyone else do a job...but thats only when we 4man 5person dungeons under levelled.
I continuously see that people are just slow to act (engage mobs, keeping good distances), inefficient at using skills. I've outdamaged a lot of people on a guardian - and that really *shouldn't* happen. With a GWF, I don't mind...but yeah, so far I have yet to see much that supports any class is OP. Some tend easier towards other things, but if you're an effective player, you can make surprising things work.
TR has not much mobility.. also shadowstep and all the burst dps abilities has insane cooldown..
besides that once you use your stamina and shadowstep there is no more ability for 10 sec in order to close the gap between you and your wizard target..
There can be certain situations where certain classes feels OP but it's all about the player..
a good wizard can kite the $h1t out of the rogue..
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turlamMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
One thing I keep seeing people do in this thread is confuse Damage and Damage Per Second.
I totally agree rogues should be the class with the highest DPS out of the classes currently in game. However I don't believe that rogues should always top the Damage charts. I'm specifically talking about PvE here, dungeons. CW or GWF should be near or beating rogues in those situations because they are attacking MANY targets, while the TR should do TONS more damage to the boss.
Currently however fill a room with 50 monsters and see who kills them all first AE class or TR. TR should get stomped due to this 'glass cannon' everyone keeps talking about, but they won......Blah Blah Blah Blah......
Actually there is an issue far greater.... Its the issue that everyone want to be top DPS no matter what class they play. If you roll a Cleric and complain for being out damaged, then maybe you should consider not rolling a cleric.....
If you roll a CONTROL Wizard and get out parsed then maybe you should reevaluate your purpose as a CONTROL Wizard. Control is meant to be Crowd Control.... You see, if a Control Wizard is walking into a room with 50 mobs and is more concerned about killing them all first then maybe you should die. Horribly too. If i were playing a CC class and walked into a room where 50 mobs just happened to spawn on me, I would get CONTROL of the situation and then start picking my targets off effectively.
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dunginmasterMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 3Arc User
edited May 2013
I just wanted to state that this all changes later in the game. Yes, TR's have HUGH DPS but later in the game when you get the mechanics of whatever class you are playing down you will see hidden benefits. I have played my fair share of MMO's and this game seems to have a LOT of unique qualities so don't make a snap judgement at first glance, keep investigating and you find some interesting stuff. For the record, I play a CW and find it to be a VERY effective class. I play only Epic Dungeons at this point and after making some modifications (Powers, Feats, Ability Scores and specifically the line up I use) I am at the top in every single quest in Overall Damage dealt AND Kills.
the should change their silence skill into a daily skill
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radiator017Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
idk but i feel like 2h guardian fighter seems soo weak dont have a 1v1 attack it has only pure AOE dmg i think 2h should do more dmg than a rogue.
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zeek29Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 13Arc User
edited May 2013
I am a level 36 cw i like my damage just fine. Tr that are good usually beat me but i can hold my own usually and I add the control aspect as well. You say op i say doing their job. Then again i am a pve person. I remember when back in vanilla when wow rogues were crazy, but got huge nerfs because of the pvp aspect of the game. I hope that doesnt happen here
I can see it now... next complaints incoming. NERF ROGUES!
NERF EVERYTHING! J/K when I play a class in D&D:Neverwinter I feel awesome and it makes me want to play more... the way it should be.
oh god this troll guy....i mean rogue are single target pure dps class yes we do bigest dmg...but we are killing targets one by one while wizards can own 5 mobs at same time....its like whining as tank class and telling HEY no fair i cant keep up with rogue dps seriously stop this bullcrap
"Rock paper scissors" is not the proper philosophy to apply to game balance. If you think it is, you obviously have little to no experience actually balancing a game, (or even the correct acknowledgement as to what proper balance is) and should not post in regards to game balance.
It is 100% not constructive to lower something so complex as game balance down to "rock paper scissors"
kindly stop posting stupid quotes about rock paper scissors.
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waylander007Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 17Arc User
edited May 2013
Wizard is controller first and striker second, where as the rogue is striker first and controller second. Now if a wizard was a striker as well then you might have a case to argue, but considering your role in relation to the trickster then sorry but your not even in the same ball park. Then again you could always upgrade gear and enchantments to shorten the gap....
Trickster Rogues are overpowered... at least in PvP. Just like they are overpowered in most games. They do sick damage and can drop anyone very quickly and the only reason people can justify it is because of DPS being their only job.
The real point of concern is whether or not the other classes will have the tools to defend themselves. If TRs have near unlimited ability to escape any situation or any kind of immunity to any CC (much like WOW Rogue) they will be stupid overpowered.
Hopefully Cryptic doesn't fall into that design trap....ever (Just like the design trap where the tanks start doing top tier DPS because people whine and complain if their only job is to be a damage sponge in PVP)
Some class somewhere is going to do the most DPS - and people are going to whine about it.
That is the simple history of every MMO, ever.
If you think rogues are so good - roll one and go with it. My rogue does great single-target damage...while my wife is making groups of mobs look stupidly easy. Am I whining about the wizard class? No. Every class brings something to the table. If you don't like what YOUR class brings to the table, maybe you need to change seats.
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fylllsvinMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 9Arc User
edited May 2013
Darn how much people care about that dps numbers.. Ok in pvp they actualy matter to kill the other but in pve? Well my celric is always att the bottom of the dps if i care to bother to check but ofcourse on the top of healing..
But yes i have felt the pain of rogues in pvp but if i manage to use my lightning trap and our team got a inch of teamwork the rogues go fast down.
Trickster Rogues are overpowered... at least in PvP. Just like they are overpowered in most games. They do sick damage and can drop anyone very quickly and the only reason people can justify it is because of DPS being their only job.
The real point of concern is whether or not the other classes will have the tools to defend themselves. If TRs have near unlimited ability to escape any situation or any kind of immunity to any CC (much like WOW Rogue) they will be stupid overpowered.
Hopefully Cryptic doesn't fall into that design trap....ever (Just like the design trap where the tanks start doing top tier DPS because people whine and complain if their only job is to be a damage sponge in PVP)
lol right go try fight as rogue against wizards and say that again its obiviously u dont know anything
I am a Control wizard level 36 and so far every time i have been partied with a Rogue they come out on top with quite a bit more DPS then me. In every dungeon i have been in the top players are rogues, even if i'm a few levels higher i still cant keep up, and they don't even seem to be that squishy, they just kill everything so quick they don't take much damage.
omg.. rogues ARE the dps class, they hit for LOTS of damage, that is their job.. the job is to keep YOU from being attacked, they have to do more damage. be creative, your magic is stronger than that when you really think on it
Could someone list the most to least played classes as well as most to least OP classes?
In D&D the classes are PERFECTLY balanced, but I haven't been on NW yet, so how they balanced them I don't know yet, once I get into the game I'll be able to look at ho they did it and see if it's balanced or broken..
Sorry but you are wrong. Rogues can stun lock any class in the game and kill them in seconds. I mean tanks, clerics, whatever.... it doesn't matter. In PvE their damage is obscene as well. They are putting out triple the damage of control wizards and don't even get me started on how they compare to GWF who are complete **** at this point of the game. With tanks, there is no reason what so ever that a Rogue should be able to have their way in a few seconds. They really need to tone Rogues down and tune GWF's up a bit.
Rogues don't stun if you see that circle around your head and aren't moving it is you that is stunned not the class.
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thecainMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
If there were any class to be OP, I'd rather it be the Rogue. Why? Because the Rogue can't mitigate damage. It can't escape. It can only stand there and hope to outdamage the enemy. With the terrible DPS that the GWF has due to it's unceremonious nerfing straight into the ground, the Rogue is the one putting out all the boss killing damage. Classes like the Rogue depend on killing lightning quick with heavy criticals and high power to rip the foe apart... simply because they don't have any other mechanic.
The Control Wizard has all the stuns and slows and whatnot. Devoted Cleric has healing. Guardian Fighter has their shield. The GWF... well, it's a nerfed child of a Barbarian and Fighter. That leaves the Rogue to do all the high damage. They do it very well, and if you nerf them, you'll quickly get swamped with adds and longer fight times, and the current system does not support overly prolonged fights.
TL;DR: THEY ARE STRIKERS, THEY ARE BUILT FOR RAPID, HIGH DAMAGE. SHUT UP AND PLAY YOUR ROLL, OR ROLL A ROGUE TO DO DAMAGE.
Funny always way more control wizards in pvp then rogues...And most players complaining arnt 1: end game yet when all skills and traits are available, and 2: arnt playing their class to its potential.
I've faced some insanely good clerics that would make me go "**** thats OP" if I hadnt also faced some clerics I 2 shot who did nothing but stand there and take it. The only class that really has a right to complain is GWF and thats only for early game. They rock late game to the point im thinking of making one.
Well I don't know what it is with my GWF, but I tickle in comparison to a rogue's dmg. Maybe I am missing the secret trick since I just started playing the game 2 days ago. To put it in perspective, at level 18(scaled to 19) doing pvp as GWF, I put my attribute points into strength and dex. All my gear is Armor pen, crit, and power. Pure dmg build I go against a skilled rogue and can barely do 10% dmg to his health one vs one. Definition of imbalance imo. Yes, I try to kite the disables, but they can dps from range too. I don't know guys, I feel like a rogue could face tank me without using any stuns or stealth and still kill my GWF.
I've read these posts as well. Rogues are op yadda yadda...
Well i regularly beat them and i am a GWF, mind you i beat them only by 10-20k (mid thirties level), some were even 2-5 levels above me. Somtimes i don't beat them too, sometimes we're **** near even. depends on how geared i am compared to them i guess.
I guess what i'm trying to say is, the classes are fine, its the players that need to rethink their strategies.
early game is kinda ****ty tho about 1-25 or maybe 30 depending on gear drops.
Well I don't know what it is with my GWF, but I tickle in comparison to a rogue's dmg. Maybe I am missing the secret trick since I just started playing the game 2 days ago. To put it in perspective, at level 18(scaled to 19) doing pvp as GWF, I put my attribute points into strength and dex. All my gear is Armor pen, crit, and power. Pure dmg build I go against a skilled rogue and can barely do 10% dmg to his health one vs one. Definition of imbalance imo. Yes, I try to kite the disables, but they can dps from range too. I don't know guys, I feel like a rogue could face tank me without using any stuns or stealth and still kill my GWF.
yes nice troll u could not take even 10% hp? how about u stop stand and use some skills lol?
I don't think I really need to rethink my strategy if this is a reply to me previous post. I have played at least 8 different mmo pvp systems as well as hack and slash games. This customization/skill system is not that complicated. What skills do you use against rogue as GWF with all the escape options a rogue has?
Comments
I totally agree rogues should be the class with the highest DPS out of the classes currently in game. However I don't believe that rogues should always top the Damage charts. I'm specifically talking about PvE here, dungeons. CW or GWF should be near or beating rogues in those situations because they are attacking MANY targets, while the TR should do TONS more damage to the boss.
Currently however fill a room with 50 monsters and see who kills them all first AE class or TR. TR should get stomped due to this 'glass cannon' everyone keeps talking about, but they won’t, they will destroy the whole room in half the time the AE class does. Do the same thing with one single boss monster with gobs of HP, the TR will destroy it in a quarter of the time the AE class does and this is fine, that's their purpose.
This guy knows quite a few things. I'm nowhere near max, but, the only time I am not way ahead in DPS as a CW is when things go bad on a boss and I have to pull control hijinks out my bum to let everyone else do a job...but thats only when we 4man 5person dungeons under levelled.
I continuously see that people are just slow to act (engage mobs, keeping good distances), inefficient at using skills. I've outdamaged a lot of people on a guardian - and that really *shouldn't* happen. With a GWF, I don't mind...but yeah, so far I have yet to see much that supports any class is OP. Some tend easier towards other things, but if you're an effective player, you can make surprising things work.
besides that once you use your stamina and shadowstep there is no more ability for 10 sec in order to close the gap between you and your wizard target..
There can be certain situations where certain classes feels OP but it's all about the player..
a good wizard can kite the $h1t out of the rogue..
NERF EVERYTHING! J/K
It is 100% not constructive to lower something so complex as game balance down to "rock paper scissors"
kindly stop posting stupid quotes about rock paper scissors.
And FYI, I play a 32 wizard
The real point of concern is whether or not the other classes will have the tools to defend themselves. If TRs have near unlimited ability to escape any situation or any kind of immunity to any CC (much like WOW Rogue) they will be stupid overpowered.
Hopefully Cryptic doesn't fall into that design trap....ever (Just like the design trap where the tanks start doing top tier DPS because people whine and complain if their only job is to be a damage sponge in PVP)
That is the simple history of every MMO, ever.
If you think rogues are so good - roll one and go with it. My rogue does great single-target damage...while my wife is making groups of mobs look stupidly easy. Am I whining about the wizard class? No. Every class brings something to the table. If you don't like what YOUR class brings to the table, maybe you need to change seats.
But yes i have felt the pain of rogues in pvp but if i manage to use my lightning trap and our team got a inch of teamwork the rogues go fast down.
lol right go try fight as rogue against wizards and say that again its obiviously u dont know anything
Then why they double GWF Dps?
becuz obiviously that GWF does not know how to play
It must be because it is only level 10. Their damage is **** compared to other classes.
In D&D the classes are PERFECTLY balanced, but I haven't been on NW yet, so how they balanced them I don't know yet, once I get into the game I'll be able to look at ho they did it and see if it's balanced or broken..
Rogues don't stun if you see that circle around your head and aren't moving it is you that is stunned not the class.
The Control Wizard has all the stuns and slows and whatnot. Devoted Cleric has healing. Guardian Fighter has their shield. The GWF... well, it's a nerfed child of a Barbarian and Fighter. That leaves the Rogue to do all the high damage. They do it very well, and if you nerf them, you'll quickly get swamped with adds and longer fight times, and the current system does not support overly prolonged fights.
TL;DR: THEY ARE STRIKERS, THEY ARE BUILT FOR RAPID, HIGH DAMAGE. SHUT UP AND PLAY YOUR ROLL, OR ROLL A ROGUE TO DO DAMAGE.
I've faced some insanely good clerics that would make me go "**** thats OP" if I hadnt also faced some clerics I 2 shot who did nothing but stand there and take it. The only class that really has a right to complain is GWF and thats only for early game. They rock late game to the point im thinking of making one.
Well i regularly beat them and i am a GWF, mind you i beat them only by 10-20k (mid thirties level), some were even 2-5 levels above me. Somtimes i don't beat them too, sometimes we're **** near even. depends on how geared i am compared to them i guess.
I guess what i'm trying to say is, the classes are fine, its the players that need to rethink their strategies.
early game is kinda ****ty tho about 1-25 or maybe 30 depending on gear drops.
yes nice troll u could not take even 10% hp? how about u stop stand and use some skills lol?
Rogues can dodge your skills. Try playing a GWF. Experiment for yourself.