I forget where I was last, but I was generally 1-2 levels below the recommended wherever I went because I didn't have any interest in Foundry content or repeating the queued dungeons over and over.
It may have been the trogodylite swamp area where I was last.
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volcxxxMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, SilverstarsPosts: 0Arc User
I forget where I was last, but I was generally 1-2 levels below the recommended wherever I went because I didn't have any interest in Foundry content or repeating the queued dungeons over and over.
It may have been the trogodylite swamp area where I was last.
Forgot where you were last? All of what.. 4 hours ago?
And, No, I have zero desire to change my signature.
As for comparisons I will tell you right now that A Control wizard will beat a TR. A guardian Fighter will beat a TR. The damage isn't on the same scale of course.. HOWEVER the control part of that control wizard (The DEFINING factor that makes it a different mechanic and class entirely) overcomes the damage output of the rogue. A guardian fighter who doesn't just stand still and knows how to minimize combat advantage damage will also use his class mechanic and outlast a rogue every single time.(Even more so if he is using battle potions.)
All of the whining you hear on the forums is coming from the same demographic. Lower level/has not taken part in content far enough to proper witness class mechanics. Or they are angry that they can't get past class match ups that they simple are NOT supposed to win.
Sympathy - That trickster that always kills you in PVP
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volcxxxMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, SilverstarsPosts: 0Arc User
Forgot where you were last? All of what.. 4 hours ago?
And, No, I have zero desire to change my signature.
As for comparisons I will tell you right now that A Control wizard will beat a TR. A guardian Fighter will beat a TR. The damage isn't on the same scale of course.. HOWEVER the control part of that control wizard (The DEFINING factor that makes it a different mechanic and class entirely) overcomes the damage output of the rogue. A guardian fighter who doesn't just stand still and knows how to minimize combat advantage damage will also use his class mechanic and outlast a rogue every single time.(Even more so if he is using battle potions.)
All of the whining you hear on the forums is coming from the same demographic. Lower level/has not taken part in content far enough to proper witness class mechanics. Or they are angry that they can't get past class match ups that they simple are NOT supposed to win.
What about your signature and CW/GF? You are running from them in pvp?
So.. you are GWF/clerics killer, gratz!
Old "Blood and Sand: Unchained" quest Played more than 100 000 times!
> TRY IT NOW!
I forget where I was last, but I was generally 1-2 levels below the recommended wherever I went because I didn't have any interest in Foundry content or repeating the queued dungeons over and over.
It may have been the trogodylite swamp area where I was last.
I'm curious, and since nobody has seemed to ask...Did you play this weekend (BW4)? The TR's did undergo a nerf and some of your information seems to be outdated. Like I said, just curious.
As for comparisons I will tell you right now that A Control wizard will beat a TR. A guardian Fighter will beat a TR. The damage isn't on the same scale of course.. HOWEVER the control part of that control wizard (The DEFINING factor that makes it a different mechanic and class entirely) overcomes the damage output of the rogue. A guardian fighter who doesn't just stand still and knows how to minimize combat advantage damage will also use his class mechanic and outlast a rogue every single time.(Even more so if he is using battle potions.)
This.
D&D uses a system of classes that are fundamentally different in a number of ways and by no means "balanced" the way many people have come to expect from cookie-cutter MMO's. The classes change and develop with experience in ways that lead to high-level controller (CW) classes being able to handle strikers (TR, GWF) of the same level by properly using their abilities. If they just stand in place and shoot, they're going to become a pincushion or wizard tartare.
PWE/Crytic, Please don't "balance" the classes by nerfs. That's not D&D.
The right to command is earned through duty, the privilege of rank is service.
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volcxxxMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, SilverstarsPosts: 0Arc User
Forgot where you were last? All of what.. 4 hours ago?
And, No, I have zero desire to change my signature.
As for comparisons I will tell you right now that A Control wizard will beat a TR. A guardian Fighter will beat a TR. The damage isn't on the same scale of course.. HOWEVER the control part of that control wizard (The DEFINING factor that makes it a different mechanic and class entirely) overcomes the damage output of the rogue. A guardian fighter who doesn't just stand still and knows how to minimize combat advantage damage will also use his class mechanic and outlast a rogue every single time.(Even more so if he is using battle potions.)
All of the whining you hear on the forums is coming from the same demographic. Lower level/has not taken part in content far enough to proper witness class mechanics. Or they are angry that they can't get past class match ups that they simple are NOT supposed to win.
I made no mention of PvP balance. What little experience I had in PvP as a TR, I found CW to definitely have the advantage. If there are two on the field, a TR spends all of his short life being stunned or pushed back. I only commented on the PvE experience and how incredibly easy I found it to be.
It was a different poster who mentioned PvP and whatever it was about your signature. As for the remark about it being " all of 4 hours ago" that I last played... more like 24+ hours ago. I didn't pay attention to the names of the areas I was visiting, hence why I could only vaguely describe it. Regardless, I was progressing through the main storyline more or less at the expected level; usually 1 or 2 levels below the recommended when starting a new area. Most areas seemed vastly too easy when utilising Stealth properly. All mobs just seemed violently allergic to daggers.
I'm curious, and since nobody has seemed to ask...Did you play this weekend (BW4)? The TR's did undergo a nerf and some of your information seems to be outdated. Like I said, just curious.
Yes, I played this last weekend to lvl 45 on the TR. In BW3 Ievelled a GWF, and in BW2 I had the CW. (so both to 50). If the power of Lurking Assault + Stealth was, as I experienced it, already nerfed.... then wow! :P I can't imagine it being even easier for the TR than it was.
If most people are satisfied with the way the TR plays, then that's quite fine. I just found that it was too easy as compared to my experience as a CW and GWF. Even allowing for the fact that obviously a Striker ought to be doing more damage, it just seemed like an INSANELY higher amount of damage. Perhaps the problem is that the TR is a little too good and the GWF a little too bad. If they leave the TR as it is, we'll see how it compares to any new Striker class they introduce
What is far more likely is that we have different definitions of what a "Big boss" is. I do not consider small instanced quests to be "Big bosses" . These bosses are intended to be owned in such fashion. But there is NO way you were able to do something of this nature on any boss in the later levels which required you to Queue for the dungeon. (Or even skirmish bosses for that matter.)
The class is not overpowered. The developers have already stated on this forum numerous times that they play and test all characters "In house" and find that they, as developers can not stick to a single character and are often prone to different "Flavors of the week, month.. Etc."
In closing- If those who develop the characters are telling us "They aren't overpowered" then the class isn't overpowered. Seeing as we haven't had access to even 50% of the content I am hard pressed to even make the slightest of judgement on any class balancing. Lets at least wait until we can see what happens at level 60.
Try doing a cut scene boss solo in the level 35+ range on a GWF and see how you come out. You can def kill it, but you can't go stealth and face roll it in a few combos, it is a tough fight and if you aren't speced to handle it you will die over and over.
Why should I not compare solo to solo? Granted that the TR was the only Striker, I do not believe the DPS disparity between strikers and offensively orriented Defenders (GWF) or AOE Controllers should be as great as it is. And it is GREAT. I did not buy a single potion on my rogue, compared to hundreds bought on the CW or GWF. Even in full party dungeons, I just didn't take much damage. Stealth is too great of a crutch, and most things that I decided to hit would die before I could take the threat.
I am strongly of the opinion that anyone who disagrees concretely that this class is over-powered was perhaps not playing it optimally. I am not even suggesting any specific nerf or degree of nerf - all i'm doing is sharing my experience. A stack of 99+ potions because I rarely used them, most things dying as soon as I decide they should, and ever-available stealth + LA making you INVINCIBLE for the duration.
I had a lot of fun with the TR; I intend to make another when I can.... but I will not lie about how ****ing easy it is - I will probably get sick of it very quickly.
A lot of people have played the rogue and spent little if any time with the GWF fighter. That or in denial. I've said in this thread; the rogue does a lot of damage that's its role. Not for me to say if its too high or not, but the GWF might be doing a bit too little in the beta. Maybe they scale hard at end game so they needed the nerfs, but it makes some of the level ranges difficult for the class.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Extinction - GWF
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xshadesx88Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 1Arc User
Forgot where you were last? All of what.. 4 hours ago?
And, No, I have zero desire to change my signature.
As for comparisons I will tell you right now that A Control wizard will beat a TR. A guardian Fighter will beat a TR. The damage isn't on the same scale of course.. HOWEVER the control part of that control wizard (The DEFINING factor that makes it a different mechanic and class entirely) overcomes the damage output of the rogue. A guardian fighter who doesn't just stand still and knows how to minimize combat advantage damage will also use his class mechanic and outlast a rogue every single time.(Even more so if he is using battle potions.)
All of the whining you hear on the forums is coming from the same demographic. Lower level/has not taken part in content far enough to proper witness class mechanics. Or they are angry that they can't get past class match ups that they simple are NOT supposed to win.
FINALLY SOMEONE THAT KNOW WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT. all the ppl crying cuz a rogue steamrolled them are the ppl that stay in one place while the rogue daze and destroys them to hell. u have a dodge for a reason ppl use it. once u dodge that daze ( btw it is soooo easy to see it coming ). u will win, if anything the rogue needs a buff lol
I made no mention of PvP balance. What little experience I had in PvP as a TR, I found CW to definitely have the advantage. If there are two on the field, a TR spends all of his short life being stunned or pushed back. I only commented on the PvE experience and how incredibly easy I found it to be.
It was a different poster who mentioned PvP and whatever it was about your signature. As for the remark about it being " all of 4 hours ago" that I last played... more like 24+ hours ago. I didn't pay attention to the names of the areas I was visiting, hence why I could only vaguely describe it. Regardless, I was progressing through the main storyline more or less at the expected level; usually 1 or 2 levels below the recommended when starting a new area. Most areas seemed vastly too easy when utilising Stealth properly. All mobs just seemed violently allergic to daggers.
Try PvP with a GWF. With a skilled healer it can be fun but without in between being locked up from the TRs & CWs it can be a frustrating experience. Unstoppable is great, but limited, and the damage output doesn't seem to make up for the lack of utility.
Good CW's are saying that in their experience, they did MORE overall than rogues, or in the least, it is close. The OP even makes the statement that, again in his experience, "yeah, I was doing dungeons with a really skilled rogue the other day and that was the one that did about 15% more damage than me. I did dungeons with another rogue at 50 earlier in the day and literally doubled his damage, generally I think 15% is about where rogues dps will fall given equal skill, and I agree that that margin is arguably too low given the CC and utility that wizards have."
Rogue is a striker. Cleric is a leader. Mage is a controller. Fighter is a defender. Compairing dps is an improper way to evaluate the 4 classes. I could just as easily post that a rogue is underpowered at healing while the cleric is overpowered. Each class has a role. Compairing dps, healing, damage mitigation, and crowd control can lead to erronious conclusions.
Enjoy the type of character you want to play. Just be careful when making compairisons.
Precisely, everytime someone cries nerf, it ruins the game as much as it ruins Planetside 2, or any other MMO. So, STOP! <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> STOP! It's a D&D game, you can't nerf or whatever. OK?! Everyone class has its own distinctive role. You don't like it? Don't play it, is that simple.
As a GWF, I can confidently say that I feel nerfs are not the answer moving forward. I don't feel that nerfing TR damage any further will have a positive impact on the game as a whole. Maybe there are other balancing issues associated with PvP (don't know as I'm more concerned with PvE at this moment), but that can be handled separately from PvE balancing. I'm starting to think that some people just want to see the class role and stealth mechanic broken out-right.
| Banners of the Light | Recruitment is open | End Game PvE and PvP |
| Lust | Level 60 Guardian Fighter 15.8k GS|
Precisely, everytime someone cries nerf, it ruins the game as much as it ruins Planetside 2, or any other MMO. So, STOP! <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> STOP! It's a D&D game, you can't nerf or whatever. OK?! Everyone class has its own distinctive role. You don't like it? Don't play it, is that simple.
We at least have the potential to be amazing backup tanks, although that requires some adjustments as to how threat generation works as of the BW4 build. I'm fairly certain the developers are aware of that issue by now. I hope...
| Banners of the Light | Recruitment is open | End Game PvE and PvP |
| Lust | Level 60 Guardian Fighter 15.8k GS|
As a GWF who started in BW3 and got to 36 in BW4, I got owned by pretty much everything, but there was absolutely nothing to counter rogues. At least with a CW which are arguably even more OP than rogues, you could almost pretend to stand a chance if you somehow managed to actually live long enough to fill up your Determination. L2P right? Haha yeah, no.
Between their stealth, ridiculous melee burst damage, sustained ranged, spike CC and dodge mechanic, good luck trying to catch one, much less actually go toe-to-toe. Ok so GWF is terrible and needs to be completely overhauled, I thought.
Rerolled as a Guardian up to early twenties. Twice (had played one in BW3 only to delete it to play with a friend in BW4) and pretty much had the same results. Kited endlessly until Guard meter ran out then ultimately spiked in a matter of seconds. If I actually managed to start outlasting one they could simply disengage at will.
The problem is that Rogues have too much of everything. Guardians have strong resilience but no real damage and very limited CC, basically to counter one just ignore him. Clerics have even more damage but also heals, imbalanced but whatever, can deal with it by focusing them down with another. Control Wizards can CC from full to dead as long as they are in the safety of range, pretty broken but again focus one down and you may stand a chance. GWF? lol, free points. Rogues though? Again between their ridiculous mobility, massive melee-range burst damage, sustained ranged DPS, spike CC and stealth, there isn't much to do, other than reroll and be OP.
Pick one:
Rogues either the survivability of a Cleric or Guardian through stealth and mobility with light DPS and thats it.
Rogues can keep the tremendous damage dealing options but become glass canons with no real strong or reliable defensive abilities.
Rogues are only have a wide array of stun-locking, low-damage-dealing skills.
Or just keep it how it is I guess and tell anyone who brings up these legitimate concerns to LOL2P.
As a GWF who started in BW3 and got to 36 in BW4, I got owned by pretty much everything, but there was absolutely nothing to counter rogues. At least with a CW which are arguably even more OP than rogues, you could almost pretend to stand a chance if you somehow managed to actually live long enough to fill up your Determination. L2P right? Haha yeah, no.
Between their stealth, ridiculous melee burst damage, sustained ranged, spike CC and dodge mechanic, good luck trying to catch one, much less actually go toe-to-toe. Ok so GWF is terrible and needs to be completely overhauled, I thought.
Rerolled as a Guardian up to early twenties. Twice (had played one in BW3 only to delete it to play with a friend in BW4) and pretty much had the same results. Kited endlessly until Guard meter ran out then ultimately spiked in a matter of seconds. If I actually managed to start outlasting one they could simply disengage at will.
The problem is that Rogues have too much of everything. Guardians have strong resilience but no real damage and very limited CC, basically to counter one just ignore him. Clerics have even more damage but also heals, imbalanced but whatever, can deal with it by focusing them down with another. Control Wizards can CC from full to dead as long as they are in the safety of range, pretty broken but again focus one down and you may stand a chance. GWF? lol, free points. Rogues though? Again between their ridiculous mobility, massive melee-range burst damage, sustained ranged DPS, spike CC and stealth, there isn't much to do, other than reroll and be OP.
Pick one:
Rogues either the survivability of a Cleric or Guardian through stealth and mobility with light DPS and thats it.
Rogues can keep the tremendous damage dealing options but become glass canons with no real strong or reliable defensive abilities.
Rogues are only have a wide array of stun-locking, low-damage-dealing skills.
Or just keep it how it is I guess and tell anyone who brings up these legitimate concerns to LOL2P.
And once again we go from PVE to PVP. Seriously, we need different forums for PVE and PVP discussions. It just adds to confusion. The majority of this discussion is on PVE balance. PVE shouldn't be touched due to concerns about PVP. Keep them different for fixes.
also, sustained range dps for rogues? really? i mean sure, if we are talking pvp i also use the throwing knives at will but it's only to occasionally finish off a fleeing enemy with only 10% or less hp left.
you can only throw 10 times total, the range is only 60' as opposed to 80 for most ranged attacks and the damage is all but amazing...
really where does the "rogue ranged dps is OP" idea come from?
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zingarbageMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
also, sustained range dps for rogues? really? i mean sure, if we are talking pvp i also use the throwing knives at will but it's only to occasionally finish off a fleeing enemy with only 10% or less hp left.
you can only throw 10 times total, the range is only 60' as opposed to 80 for most ranged attacks and the damage is all but amazing...
really where does the "rogue ranged dps is OP" idea come from?
The actual number is 12 knives and the dps is significant. It takes about 4 seconds to throw all 12 knives and usually takes off about 25-35% health. This is for pvp.
I think it's funny to read through this thread, because you can clearly see the divide between tabletop/single-player fans and MMO veterans. The tabletop people are all saying "it's ok to have one DPS class that vastly outdamages everything else, because that's what rogues do." The MMO people are all saying "this is really bad for class balance."
Dear Tabletop People: theoretically, having certain classes that absolutely blow all other DPS classes out of the water can be ok. But the problem is that once you actually get into the game, you are going to find that over half the population of any given server is a DPS rogue, so every bit of group content will involve 4 rogues and a GF. Which is going to suck way more than you think it is.
25%-35% is nothing in pvp? by the time i stand there -not really- crippling an opponent i could be dead. best use is still to finish off the last bits of health from a fleeing player. also sustained implies you can sustain it which you can't since you run out of cherges.
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itdude123Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited April 2013
I played a Guardian until level 4 and then rolled a TR in BW3. He did great AE damage with the wide sword swings but the GW was just too slow for my tastes. I started a TR and never looked back (single target DPS but much more fun for my play style). That being said. If there is more than one tough critter to kill, it's a much tougher fight. I also have to wonder what companions people are using in single player PvE? Are you using striking companions to compliment your lack of DPS?
So if the shoe were on the other foot... My TR can't heal as well as a cleric or CC as well as a CM or is not tanky enough as a GW... come on, play your flavor and don't ask for all flavors to be muddied together.
PvP will never be balanced unless everyone plays the same class. There will always be a class that has an advantage over another class. Balance is an illusion until your class is on top.... then it's balanced.. lol
Comments
It may have been the trogodylite swamp area where I was last.
man, at least change signature, becouse it is just... wrong...
And btw... do you have any comparison to classes (at least 45 lv+)?
How in your opinion TR looks compared to other classes?
Better? Same? Worse?
I mean pvp efficiency, seems like you know subject.
Old "Blood and Sand: Unchained" quest
Played more than 100 000 times!
> TRY IT NOW!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ecy4o6JqLc
Forgot where you were last? All of what.. 4 hours ago?
And, No, I have zero desire to change my signature.
As for comparisons I will tell you right now that A Control wizard will beat a TR. A guardian Fighter will beat a TR. The damage isn't on the same scale of course.. HOWEVER the control part of that control wizard (The DEFINING factor that makes it a different mechanic and class entirely) overcomes the damage output of the rogue. A guardian fighter who doesn't just stand still and knows how to minimize combat advantage damage will also use his class mechanic and outlast a rogue every single time.(Even more so if he is using battle potions.)
All of the whining you hear on the forums is coming from the same demographic. Lower level/has not taken part in content far enough to proper witness class mechanics. Or they are angry that they can't get past class match ups that they simple are NOT supposed to win.
What about your signature and CW/GF? You are running from them in pvp?
So.. you are GWF/clerics killer, gratz!
Old "Blood and Sand: Unchained" quest
Played more than 100 000 times!
> TRY IT NOW!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ecy4o6JqLc
I'm curious, and since nobody has seemed to ask...Did you play this weekend (BW4)? The TR's did undergo a nerf and some of your information seems to be outdated. Like I said, just curious.
You are offended...
My signature has served it's purpose.
This.
D&D uses a system of classes that are fundamentally different in a number of ways and by no means "balanced" the way many people have come to expect from cookie-cutter MMO's. The classes change and develop with experience in ways that lead to high-level controller (CW) classes being able to handle strikers (TR, GWF) of the same level by properly using their abilities. If they just stand in place and shoot, they're going to become a pincushion or wizard tartare.
PWE/Crytic, Please don't "balance" the classes by nerfs. That's not D&D.
you serious?
hilarious
/sorry for offtop, lets go back to topic:
Trickster Rogue Way too Overpowered...
discuss!
(i think it is, and i like it!)
Old "Blood and Sand: Unchained" quest
Played more than 100 000 times!
> TRY IT NOW!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ecy4o6JqLc
I made no mention of PvP balance. What little experience I had in PvP as a TR, I found CW to definitely have the advantage. If there are two on the field, a TR spends all of his short life being stunned or pushed back. I only commented on the PvE experience and how incredibly easy I found it to be.
It was a different poster who mentioned PvP and whatever it was about your signature. As for the remark about it being " all of 4 hours ago" that I last played... more like 24+ hours ago. I didn't pay attention to the names of the areas I was visiting, hence why I could only vaguely describe it. Regardless, I was progressing through the main storyline more or less at the expected level; usually 1 or 2 levels below the recommended when starting a new area. Most areas seemed vastly too easy when utilising Stealth properly. All mobs just seemed violently allergic to daggers.
Yes, I played this last weekend to lvl 45 on the TR. In BW3 Ievelled a GWF, and in BW2 I had the CW. (so both to 50). If the power of Lurking Assault + Stealth was, as I experienced it, already nerfed.... then wow! :P I can't imagine it being even easier for the TR than it was.
If most people are satisfied with the way the TR plays, then that's quite fine. I just found that it was too easy as compared to my experience as a CW and GWF. Even allowing for the fact that obviously a Striker ought to be doing more damage, it just seemed like an INSANELY higher amount of damage. Perhaps the problem is that the TR is a little too good and the GWF a little too bad. If they leave the TR as it is, we'll see how it compares to any new Striker class they introduce
Try doing a cut scene boss solo in the level 35+ range on a GWF and see how you come out. You can def kill it, but you can't go stealth and face roll it in a few combos, it is a tough fight and if you aren't speced to handle it you will die over and over.
Extinction - GWF
A lot of people have played the rogue and spent little if any time with the GWF fighter. That or in denial. I've said in this thread; the rogue does a lot of damage that's its role. Not for me to say if its too high or not, but the GWF might be doing a bit too little in the beta. Maybe they scale hard at end game so they needed the nerfs, but it makes some of the level ranges difficult for the class.
Extinction - GWF
FINALLY SOMEONE THAT KNOW WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT. all the ppl crying cuz a rogue steamrolled them are the ppl that stay in one place while the rogue daze and destroys them to hell. u have a dodge for a reason ppl use it. once u dodge that daze ( btw it is soooo easy to see it coming ). u will win, if anything the rogue needs a buff lol
Try PvP with a GWF. With a skilled healer it can be fun but without in between being locked up from the TRs & CWs it can be a frustrating experience. Unstoppable is great, but limited, and the damage output doesn't seem to make up for the lack of utility.
Good CW's are saying that in their experience, they did MORE overall than rogues, or in the least, it is close. The OP even makes the statement that, again in his experience, "yeah, I was doing dungeons with a really skilled rogue the other day and that was the one that did about 15% more damage than me. I did dungeons with another rogue at 50 earlier in the day and literally doubled his damage, generally I think 15% is about where rogues dps will fall given equal skill, and I agree that that margin is arguably too low given the CC and utility that wizards have."
Precisely, everytime someone cries nerf, it ruins the game as much as it ruins Planetside 2, or any other MMO. So, STOP! <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> STOP! It's a D&D game, you can't nerf or whatever. OK?! Everyone class has its own distinctive role. You don't like it? Don't play it, is that simple.
| Lust | Level 60 Guardian Fighter 15.8k GS|
'Cept the GWF. Masters of nothing.
We at least have the potential to be amazing backup tanks, although that requires some adjustments as to how threat generation works as of the BW4 build. I'm fairly certain the developers are aware of that issue by now. I hope...
| Lust | Level 60 Guardian Fighter 15.8k GS|
Between their stealth, ridiculous melee burst damage, sustained ranged, spike CC and dodge mechanic, good luck trying to catch one, much less actually go toe-to-toe. Ok so GWF is terrible and needs to be completely overhauled, I thought.
Rerolled as a Guardian up to early twenties. Twice (had played one in BW3 only to delete it to play with a friend in BW4) and pretty much had the same results. Kited endlessly until Guard meter ran out then ultimately spiked in a matter of seconds. If I actually managed to start outlasting one they could simply disengage at will.
The problem is that Rogues have too much of everything. Guardians have strong resilience but no real damage and very limited CC, basically to counter one just ignore him. Clerics have even more damage but also heals, imbalanced but whatever, can deal with it by focusing them down with another. Control Wizards can CC from full to dead as long as they are in the safety of range, pretty broken but again focus one down and you may stand a chance. GWF? lol, free points. Rogues though? Again between their ridiculous mobility, massive melee-range burst damage, sustained ranged DPS, spike CC and stealth, there isn't much to do, other than reroll and be OP.
Pick one:
Rogues either the survivability of a Cleric or Guardian through stealth and mobility with light DPS and thats it.
Rogues can keep the tremendous damage dealing options but become glass canons with no real strong or reliable defensive abilities.
Rogues are only have a wide array of stun-locking, low-damage-dealing skills.
Or just keep it how it is I guess and tell anyone who brings up these legitimate concerns to LOL2P.
And once again we go from PVE to PVP. Seriously, we need different forums for PVE and PVP discussions. It just adds to confusion. The majority of this discussion is on PVE balance. PVE shouldn't be touched due to concerns about PVP. Keep them different for fixes.
you can only throw 10 times total, the range is only 60' as opposed to 80 for most ranged attacks and the damage is all but amazing...
really where does the "rogue ranged dps is OP" idea come from?
The actual number is 12 knives and the dps is significant. It takes about 4 seconds to throw all 12 knives and usually takes off about 25-35% health. This is for pvp.
Dear Tabletop People: theoretically, having certain classes that absolutely blow all other DPS classes out of the water can be ok. But the problem is that once you actually get into the game, you are going to find that over half the population of any given server is a DPS rogue, so every bit of group content will involve 4 rogues and a GF. Which is going to suck way more than you think it is.
So if the shoe were on the other foot... My TR can't heal as well as a cleric or CC as well as a CM or is not tanky enough as a GW... come on, play your flavor and don't ask for all flavors to be muddied together.
PvP will never be balanced unless everyone plays the same class. There will always be a class that has an advantage over another class. Balance is an illusion until your class is on top.... then it's balanced.. lol