The fact that mutliple choices don't say how many people really voted on some option is a problem of multiple choices option which don't give you any real answer. You are guessing how many people really voted on some option.
Dude calm down! It's a freaking forum poll. Your truly so mad you don't have a founders pack you have to bash the guys poll accuracy??? This founders pack really has brought out the crazy in you people.
Da kitties don't speak for me, deez kitties speak fur us all!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I'll Keep this up till beta goes live. I'll improve it soon.
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shock4ndaweMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 13Arc User
edited February 2013
I'll buy one after I try the game during the beta and like what I see.
0
ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
edited February 2013
As I said, it's not a percentage on how many people voted for one option, it's a percentage on how many voted for each.
A Single Choice Poll, where each person may only vote once, adds up to 100%. Example:
If ten people vote on a topic each vote is worth 10% of the result.
5 people vote A = 50%
2 people vote B = 20%
3 People vote C = 30%
In words this says 5/10 A, 2/10 voted for B and 3/10 voted for C when each person voted for one choice.
However this same concept of each vote tabulating a single choice poll amount still counts in multiple choice polls. Example:
Again, if there are ten voters each vote is worth 10%
10 vote A = 100%
5 vote B = 50%
7 vote C = 70%
In words this says 10/10 voted for A and 5/10 of the voters ALSO voted B and 7/10 ALSO voted C.
When people can choose multiple answers to the same questions the poll no longer shows how many people voted for one answer but rather shows how many voted for each answer. The percent is still out of 100 but it no longer refers to the entire poll, it refers to each individual choice within the poll.
This concludes the math lesson of this thread. Any further inquiries and debates can be taken up with your own or your kid's math teachers.
More towards the topic of discussion I guess I will just confirm for everybody that I did ultimately buy a Founders Pack and voted appropriately. However I'm going to abstain from speaking out what I bought. Those of you I happen to run into during the tests can find out and leak that information if they choose.
I didn't want to write on this part of forum again mainly because I'm one step from ban but there is one thing that part from paid beta couldn't make me laugh more which is this poll.
lol, good catch. I got a similar number when I tried to added them up. I guess the poll can account for a higher percentage of people than have actually voted >.>
It doesn't matter if poll counts answers or people that voted it should be always 100%.
Look if we have 2 options A and B and both of us can give one vote then:
-you chose A I chose B > A 1 vote 50% B 1 Vote 50%
-now if i can make 2 votes and you one A 2 votes B 1vote > then A is 66,66(6)% and B is 33,33(3)%
Even if i can't vote two times on same option it's still legit and it stil chould give 100%. The % you have in a poll is wrong, you can count people or their votes and "ALL" always is 100%. That 23,6% are extra votes which should +/- % of answers.
Consider the case of a poll with three options, and a multiple choice poll, meaning you can pick more than one option.
Then say 10 people vote. All 10 pick option A. Five pick option B (and they also picked option A). The other five pick option C (and they all picked option A, as mentioned.)
You would thus have:
A: 100%
B: 50%
C: 50%
You can't add them up, they're separate. It wouldn't make any sense for "A" not to be 100%, because 100% of respondents picked A. It wouldn't make any sense for B not to be 50%, because 50% of respondents picked B.
It's the same for a larger poll. It wasn't a radio button poll, it was a checkbox poll. The percentages are correct.
Sy, just because you don't understand how multiple polling works doesn't mean it's wrong. Please end it.
...however, it doesn't appear to answer the question you're asking. I am providing it for your future convenience.
Due to the frequent changes, I have only provided the Founder links there. If we have some absolute not changing resolutions, I may list details there. For now everybody, the Guardian and Hero packs are one per account and you can buy the basic with small bag pack multiple times. But this could change.
Expect the inventory max space to mirror STO and CO. I can't give more specifics until NDA is lifted.
daxoniaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited February 2013
I would gladly purchase the Hero of the North pack, if was something more reasonable like $100. that's a huge jump from the two packs. $200 is damn steep and is nearly $240 after currency conversion. Why couldn't the pack prices have a steady increase -.-
Have a question about the Founder packs if you don't mind Does Hero of the North also contain the Guardian of Neverwinter pack, or would one have to buy it as well?
"You hurt me long ago; my wounds bled for years. Now you are back, but I am not the same."
I would gladly purchase the Hero of the North pack, if was something more reasonable like $100. that's a huge jump from the two packs. $200 is damn steep and is nearly $240 after currency conversion. Why couldn't the pack prices have a steady increase -.-
The pack prices do not increase steadily for the same reason car prices do not increase steadily as you go from economy cars to luxury cars - luxury goods command greater margins because some people are willing to pay prices that do not correlate with the actual value of the goods simply because they can afford it and want the best. Businesses know this and price their goods for different markets accordingly. Does a Ferrari 458 Spider go ten times as fast a Ford Mustang? No. Does it cost ten times as much to manufacture? Nope. But it costs ten times as much because that is the price people will buy it at in Ferrari's target market.
I am not a fool - I know that the $200 I spent on the Hero of the North Founder's Pack, from a purely objective perspective, was a poor financial decision. The game can be played freely and there is no competitive advantage to be gained by spending that sort of money. However, I have the disposable income to afford such a purchase, foolish though it may be, and it will bring me a sense of satisfaction that cannot be expressed in rational, objective terms.
Most publishers today know that it makes sense to position some products at a very high price with extreme margins because there will be some customers, known as "whales" in the business, that will purchase them simply because they can. This small subset of customers can make up as much as 50% of a game's revenue, despite being perhaps 10% or less of the population. If these customers are willing to spend vast amounts, why wouldn't a business price items accordingly?
Have a question about the Founder packs if you don't mind Does Hero of the North also contain the Guardian of Neverwinter pack, or would one have to buy it as well?
They are separate packs and the Hero of the North Founder's Pack does not include the less expensive Guardian of Neverwinter pack. You can purchase both and the perks will stack, so you would get both companion pets, both mounts, etc.
Actually, taking syberghost's examples into consideration you're both correct (and to some extend incorrect, depending on how you look at it). The poll is giving a percentage of how many people that have voted have voted on each option individually. From that perspective the current percentages of the poll make sense, since they're not a percentage of the total overall votes across the board compared to eachother (what syfylis is arguing it should be).
The poll is logically correct.
The reason is definition of percentage.
Percentage of people voted = ((Number of votes received)/(Number of votes it could have received.))(x100%)
In single option poll, the numbers are very simple.
A, B, C, D - 100 people voted. Hence %age of A+B+C+D = 100%
Why? Because A+B+C+D=((Number of votes received for A)/(Number of votes it could have received.))+((Number of votes received for /(Number of votes it could have received.))+((Number of votes received for C)/(Number of votes it could have received.))+((Number of votes received for D)/(Number of votes it could have received.))
=((Number of votes received for A+B+C+D)/(Number of votes it could have received.))
=Total number of votes/Total number of votes=100/100=100% (100%=1 as it means 100 per cent, i.e. hundred per hundred)
In multiple option poll, each option can be voted many times. Hence
0 < %age of (A+B+C+D) < 400%
However, as one person must vote, otherwise the vote is not counted, it becomes
100< %age of (A+B+C+D) < 400%
Here if you add A+B+C+D, it will never become total number of votes. Hence it will almost never be 100%(except for one very rare situation)
However, A+B+C+D actually measures nothing and tells us nothing. There is no point adding them up anyways.
I didn't want to write on this part of forum again mainly because I'm one step from ban but there is one thing that part from paid beta couldn't make me laugh more which is this poll.
This is a very good number. It tells us that poll should have be single choice instead of multiple choice - the opner created redundancy by making it multiple choice.
This is because there are 7 options,'
if you add them all 100%<Sum of all<700%
Su of all is 124%, which is very very towards 100% side. Hence, the people using the option to vote multiple choices are probably very low. Most of the people are just choosing one option.
EDIT:
You can go further and try to find with this - how many people chose to vote more than twice?
We can find the least number by assuming that 112 people voted, and 12 people chose 2 options. that would give us a maximum percentage of people who chose to vote more than one option.
To get LEAST percentage of number per hundred, assume that everyone who chose to vote multiple times, voted all seven options. Thus if total number of people was 102 and only 4 people chose to exercise the multiple choice option. i.e. 4 people out of 102 people.
Thus %age of total people who exercised the multiple option(XY) lies between
12 out of 112 >XY%> 4 out of 102
This is very low number on both limits.
So it would have been better to make it single choice poll
EDIT:
TOtal number of voters is about 380. So peole who exercised their multiple option lie between around 10 to 40
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iamtruthseekerMember, Moonstars, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited February 2013
I guess when you have seen polls and statistics it just makes sense compared to people reading the USA today yes/no polls more thinking it's all 100% and the disclaimer isn't going to be in simple English.
zentrasiMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 3Arc User
edited February 2013
I'm currently 'On The Fence'.. which I know wasn't an option in the poll but that's where I'm at for the moment. I have Lifetime subs to both Champions Online and Star Trek Online yet this one has me pausing to purchase. Why? Lack of information. I'm not entirely sure exactly what we are getting with this pack. Is the equivalent of a Lifetime sub.. or just a bunch of stuff from the marketplace at a discount, which means we still have to purchase any future content?
I tried many games in the last couple of years, and none of them was able to hold my attention for more then a few months (GW2, Tera, The War Z, The Secret World, Diablo 3, World of Tanks, Rift, Xsyon).
I just hope that this game will be different enough to make me forget WoW. Bought all 3 of the pack's. Why ...... ?
Because I can and don't wont to miss anything in this stadium fo the game and I really hope this one will be a succes in terms of getting you into the game and keeping you there.
1) EVE’s absurd $70 monocle was a bargain compared to this price.
2) Guild Wars 2 Collector’s Edition was $149.99 at launch.
3) A $15 monthly sub for a game for a year is only $180 if you paid monthly. Most games offer you an additional discount off of that price when paying for 1 year up front.... Nuff said
2) Guild Wars 2 Collector’s Edition was $149.99 at launch.
The GW 2 Collectors edition gave no where near the in game reward that the $200 gives. It gave no in game currency which is the lions share of the value in the Hero of the North pack and number of in game items and the value of them alone is vastly greater than the items that you got from the GW2 CE.
3) A $15 monthly sub for a game for a year is only $180 if you paid monthly. Most games offer you an additional discount off of that price when paying for 1 year up front.... Nuff said
Now this is a hard one to compare because there is no monthly charge in NW it is F2P and to play the game you don't have to pay anything, but in a sub based product you do. You are sort of trying to compare apples and zombies.
Wanted to buy the founders pack but when i went to pay for it the price was converted to Euros as im from the UK and it worked out more expensive,dont mind paying the going rate but i do object to paying more than it would be in Dollars, so might just wait now till release.
Wanted to buy the founders pack but when i went to pay for it the price was converted to Euros as im from the UK and it worked out more expensive,dont mind paying the going rate but i do object to paying more than it would be in Dollars, so might just wait now till release.
I said it before, I will say it again. Why should Cryptic make less money from you than they would from others on the exact same product because your government chooses to tax you like a maniac? Don't blame Cryptic for your dislike of this blame your government.
Complain to your government. You are not being charged more, your government is taxing you for your "luxury item". Don't like it go riot or something.
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
edited February 2013
Von,
The reason it is more expensive is due to the VAT. Cryptic/PWE is not charging more, your government is.
If you paid in pounds you will still end up paying roughly 250 dollars whether you paid in Euros or Pounds.
The wonderful thing about money is that it all has a physical value hidden behind the currency value. The numbers of currency may vary but the value of the product does not.
I can't justify spending 200$ on a game I have not seen any "good" video's of nothing exciting. No good interviews with details and info. Not many answers on PvP , worth of astral diamonds etc. Worst yet, right after they release the different founder packs all goes quiet. Havent seen any news since Jan 30th , if you want your customers to jump on board with your ridiculously expensive " beta opt in " then you best start defending it and giving the customer what they want...
Blue, green, grey, white, or black; smooth, ruffled, or mountainous; that ocean is not silent.
H. P. Lovecraft
I can't justify spending 200$ on a game I have not seen any "good" video's of nothing exciting. No good interviews with details and info. Not many answers on PvP , worth of astral diamonds etc. Worst yet, right after they release the different founder packs all goes quiet. Havent seen any news since Jan 30th , if you want your customers to jump on board with your ridiculously expensive " beta opt in " then you best start defending it and giving the customer what they want...
Wait until after first beta to see. Maybe the packs will still be on sale. And the 30th wasn't that long ago. Not even a week has gone by...
Unless you are saying that since today is sunday, a new week has started and it's been a week... o.o?
But I can see what you mean by the quietness. Usually Devs would be interacting with the community. Talking to us, telling us what they can talk to us about. Think the only way they have communicated with us is through the news section? Haven't really seen a post from them. I could be wrong.
My thoughts: typical PWE way of dealing with their community. "Ignore!"
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
edited February 2013
They have been posting, especially over the last month.
However with Beta announced to be only one week away they have been extremely busy finishing the final touches to the game.
Unless you get a physical collector's item that's worth at least half of the price tag, there's really no 'real' logical reason for anyone to purchase it.
As a suggestion to the devs:
1. head over to swordsswords.com
2. ask them about their suppliers.,
3. hook up with a manufacturer to create a limited edition $100 unsharpened fan sword of some kind.
If you do that and throw it into the Founder's Pack, I'm positive that 80% of the people (including myself) who have expressed never buying it, will actually buy it. In fact, it'll more than likely draw even more people to your game...
I make a decent living and spend lots of money on games and PC but still... spending 200 bucks on one single MMO purchase is just insane.
Not sure what decent living means in your area but 200 euros for an mmo is not much. Comparing this to other collector's editions, it's around the same level.
A game like Mass Effect or Dragon Age will cost around the same if you buy all the DLC's.
Hey sorry if this has been asked before but what is the closing date on buying the various packs as this will dictate which i can get as my payday is a little while of off yet
Not sure what decent living means in your area but 200 euros for an mmo is not much. Comparing this to other collector's editions, it's around the same level.
A game like Mass Effect or Dragon Age will cost around the same if you buy all the DLC's.
2500 Euros a month. And no i will still never spend 200 bucks on single game purchase. it is about value of money for me even though i can afford it.
You can buy Dragon Age + DA2 and awakening along with DLC's from Amazon for around 50 bucks. I have no idea from where you got 200 bucks.
Comments
Dude calm down! It's a freaking forum poll. Your truly so mad you don't have a founders pack you have to bash the guys poll accuracy??? This founders pack really has brought out the crazy in you people.
A Single Choice Poll, where each person may only vote once, adds up to 100%. Example:
However this same concept of each vote tabulating a single choice poll amount still counts in multiple choice polls. Example:
When people can choose multiple answers to the same questions the poll no longer shows how many people voted for one answer but rather shows how many voted for each answer. The percent is still out of 100 but it no longer refers to the entire poll, it refers to each individual choice within the poll.
This concludes the math lesson of this thread. Any further inquiries and debates can be taken up with your own or your kid's math teachers.
More towards the topic of discussion I guess I will just confirm for everybody that I did ultimately buy a Founders Pack and voted appropriately. However I'm going to abstain from speaking out what I bought. Those of you I happen to run into during the tests can find out and leak that information if they choose.
Sy, just because you don't understand how multiple polling works doesn't mean it's wrong. Please end it.
Due to the frequent changes, I have only provided the Founder links there. If we have some absolute not changing resolutions, I may list details there. For now everybody, the Guardian and Hero packs are one per account and you can buy the basic with small bag pack multiple times. But this could change.
Expect the inventory max space to mirror STO and CO. I can't give more specifics until NDA is lifted.
The pack prices do not increase steadily for the same reason car prices do not increase steadily as you go from economy cars to luxury cars - luxury goods command greater margins because some people are willing to pay prices that do not correlate with the actual value of the goods simply because they can afford it and want the best. Businesses know this and price their goods for different markets accordingly. Does a Ferrari 458 Spider go ten times as fast a Ford Mustang? No. Does it cost ten times as much to manufacture? Nope. But it costs ten times as much because that is the price people will buy it at in Ferrari's target market.
I am not a fool - I know that the $200 I spent on the Hero of the North Founder's Pack, from a purely objective perspective, was a poor financial decision. The game can be played freely and there is no competitive advantage to be gained by spending that sort of money. However, I have the disposable income to afford such a purchase, foolish though it may be, and it will bring me a sense of satisfaction that cannot be expressed in rational, objective terms.
Most publishers today know that it makes sense to position some products at a very high price with extreme margins because there will be some customers, known as "whales" in the business, that will purchase them simply because they can. This small subset of customers can make up as much as 50% of a game's revenue, despite being perhaps 10% or less of the population. If these customers are willing to spend vast amounts, why wouldn't a business price items accordingly?
They are separate packs and the Hero of the North Founder's Pack does not include the less expensive Guardian of Neverwinter pack. You can purchase both and the perks will stack, so you would get both companion pets, both mounts, etc.
The reason is definition of percentage.
Percentage of people voted = ((Number of votes received)/(Number of votes it could have received.))(x100%)
In single option poll, the numbers are very simple.
A, B, C, D - 100 people voted. Hence %age of A+B+C+D = 100%
Why? Because A+B+C+D=((Number of votes received for A)/(Number of votes it could have received.))+((Number of votes received for
=((Number of votes received for A+B+C+D)/(Number of votes it could have received.))
=Total number of votes/Total number of votes=100/100=100% (100%=1 as it means 100 per cent, i.e. hundred per hundred)
In multiple option poll, each option can be voted many times. Hence
0 < %age of (A+B+C+D) < 400%
However, as one person must vote, otherwise the vote is not counted, it becomes
100< %age of (A+B+C+D) < 400%
Here if you add A+B+C+D, it will never become total number of votes. Hence it will almost never be 100%(except for one very rare situation)
However, A+B+C+D actually measures nothing and tells us nothing. There is no point adding them up anyways.
This is a very good number. It tells us that poll should have be single choice instead of multiple choice - the opner created redundancy by making it multiple choice.
This is because there are 7 options,'
if you add them all 100%<Sum of all<700%
Su of all is 124%, which is very very towards 100% side. Hence, the people using the option to vote multiple choices are probably very low. Most of the people are just choosing one option.
EDIT:
You can go further and try to find with this - how many people chose to vote more than twice?
We can find the least number by assuming that 112 people voted, and 12 people chose 2 options. that would give us a maximum percentage of people who chose to vote more than one option.
To get LEAST percentage of number per hundred, assume that everyone who chose to vote multiple times, voted all seven options. Thus if total number of people was 102 and only 4 people chose to exercise the multiple choice option. i.e. 4 people out of 102 people.
Thus %age of total people who exercised the multiple option(XY) lies between
12 out of 112 >XY%> 4 out of 102
This is very low number on both limits.
So it would have been better to make it single choice poll
EDIT:
TOtal number of voters is about 380. So peole who exercised their multiple option lie between around 10 to 40
Gils' reply is right.
I tried many games in the last couple of years, and none of them was able to hold my attention for more then a few months (GW2, Tera, The War Z, The Secret World, Diablo 3, World of Tanks, Rift, Xsyon).
I just hope that this game will be different enough to make me forget WoW. Bought all 3 of the pack's. Why ...... ?
Because I can and don't wont to miss anything in this stadium fo the game
2) Guild Wars 2 Collector’s Edition was $149.99 at launch.
3) A $15 monthly sub for a game for a year is only $180 if you paid monthly. Most games offer you an additional discount off of that price when paying for 1 year up front.... Nuff said
The monocle was a single item. The $200 package gives you much much more than a single item, the comparison is ridiculous.
The GW 2 Collectors edition gave no where near the in game reward that the $200 gives. It gave no in game currency which is the lions share of the value in the Hero of the North pack and number of in game items and the value of them alone is vastly greater than the items that you got from the GW2 CE.
Now this is a hard one to compare because there is no monthly charge in NW it is F2P and to play the game you don't have to pay anything, but in a sub based product you do. You are sort of trying to compare apples and zombies.
I said it before, I will say it again. Why should Cryptic make less money from you than they would from others on the exact same product because your government chooses to tax you like a maniac? Don't blame Cryptic for your dislike of this blame your government.
Complain to your government. You are not being charged more, your government is taxing you for your "luxury item". Don't like it go riot or something.
The reason it is more expensive is due to the VAT. Cryptic/PWE is not charging more, your government is.
If you paid in pounds you will still end up paying roughly 250 dollars whether you paid in Euros or Pounds.
The wonderful thing about money is that it all has a physical value hidden behind the currency value. The numbers of currency may vary but the value of the product does not.
H. P. Lovecraft
January 30 was four days ago! Also, two of the days since then have been Saturday and Sunday, also known as non-business days! What do you expect?
Wait until after first beta to see. Maybe the packs will still be on sale. And the 30th wasn't that long ago. Not even a week has gone by...
Unless you are saying that since today is sunday, a new week has started and it's been a week... o.o?
But I can see what you mean by the quietness. Usually Devs would be interacting with the community. Talking to us, telling us what they can talk to us about. Think the only way they have communicated with us is through the news section? Haven't really seen a post from them. I could be wrong.
My thoughts: typical PWE way of dealing with their community. "Ignore!"
However with Beta announced to be only one week away they have been extremely busy finishing the final touches to the game.
Ok then I'm wrong...
For now anyway.
As a suggestion to the devs:
1. head over to swordsswords.com
2. ask them about their suppliers.,
3. hook up with a manufacturer to create a limited edition $100 unsharpened fan sword of some kind.
If you do that and throw it into the Founder's Pack, I'm positive that 80% of the people (including myself) who have expressed never buying it, will actually buy it. In fact, it'll more than likely draw even more people to your game...
Not sure what decent living means in your area but 200 euros for an mmo is not much. Comparing this to other collector's editions, it's around the same level.
A game like Mass Effect or Dragon Age will cost around the same if you buy all the DLC's.
2500 Euros a month. And no i will still never spend 200 bucks on single game purchase. it is about value of money for me even though i can afford it.
You can buy Dragon Age + DA2 and awakening along with DLC's from Amazon for around 50 bucks. I have no idea from where you got 200 bucks.