In regards to creating Account Reclaimable Bound versions of Enchants for ease of use over multiple characters since people will just shift their enchants either way; it will be necessary for when you upgrade one of them, for the Reclaim to be updated as well. Otherwise the whole point becomes invalid.
Why does doing the few things that the players have asked for, always end up being a tear-down of what already exists and new parts being forced into the opening?
Because it distracts people from the issues they still haven't and probably will never fix.
Daily reminder that there are 5+ year old issues that still exist.
OK so popped over to preview to check changes and do a test build to check overall impact on character.
My main has all Max rank Enchants and after rebuilding the character (with no upgrading) I compared Preview build stats with Live build stats. There was a boost in Item Level by around 1500 and around 17,000 increase in Life and around 200 increase in damage, also saw an increase in Movement speed (chose movement bonus). Good news ends there. Every other stat was at least a 1000-2000/2-5% drop on Preview over Live - with the exception of 3 which saw an increase of around 1000 rating but drop in total by 1-5%. There were 2 stats where the drop was around 8% total rating in each: they were power and critical strike - no big deal, after all, I am only playing DPS (insert sarcasm here).
So total loss was around 22,500/65% plus Rating/Total across all stats. This is a rough approximation as I have ZERO patience to actually do the math. Besides, maths are hard.
Overall not as bad as I expected, which does not mean it is good or that I like it. Just not as bad as expected.
Of course I have grave fears for my alts which have quite a few lower level or level 9 enchants...
OK so popped over to preview to check changes and do a test build to check overall impact on character.
My main has all Max rank Enchants and after rebuilding the character (with no upgrading) I compared Preview build stats with Live build stats. There was a boost in Item Level by around 1500 and around 17,000 increase in Life and around 200 increase in damage, also saw an increase in Movement speed (chose movement bonus). Good news ends there. Every other stat was at least a 1000-2000/2-5% drop on Preview over Live - with the exception of 3 which saw an increase of around 1000 rating but drop in total by 1-5%. There were 2 stats where the drop was around 8% total rating in each: they were power and critical strike - no big deal, after all, I am only playing DPS (insert sarcasm here).
They have to do this, taking away combined rating, I mean. They suck at math and didn't listen to those who don't suck at math who told them when the combat update went live that they were going to run into a power creep (stat cap) problem faster than any other way they could have implemented their update. They, of course, didn't listen and now the players can cap stats faster than the devs anticipated (even though they were told) and they have to do something about it.
Morale of the story, devs, is listen to your playerbase.
Another notable issue: You cannot force a hard choice between Offense/Defense Combat enchants. We need one of each to remotely match what we have now. As it stands now, none of my characters would be using any of the Offense Combat enchants, including, no; especially my DPS. This is an automatic loss in DPS that is forced as losing what little Defensive buffer we have now is not acceptable.
Short point: We need an Offensive AND a Defensive Combat enchant slot. Halve the iLvL of each of them so that together they act the same as one if you have to.
Left as it stands, I wouldn't take anyone not using a Defensive Combat enchant in any content. I don't want dead weight.
8
greywyndMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 7,150Arc User
The new meta will be to create a single set of enchants + alternates and transfer them from character to character as you play.
Annoying, yes. But a lot less costly overall.
All 12 of my characters have their own enchants. The only thing I used to move was the bondings after they made that free. The only things I move now are comp gear w/runes and collars.
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
If this is the system going forward, the current UI design for enchantments needs improvement to better hide the arbitrary nature of enchantment / stat progression. In the previous system, enchantments were slotted into equiptment which was a helpful way to immerse the player in what they were doing, to mask the pure +numbers system and make it seem more tangible thing you were doing to your equiptment. I would suggest some sort of UI rework to help tie enchantments to the character / equiptment while if possible, maintaining the improvement of not having them follow your armor pieces into the inventory.
Feedback: Illusions I'm ok with R8 and R9 weapon and armor enchants being turned into refinement points, but please let us keep the illusions.
Feedback: Shared refinement points Could you please make a shared Refinement bank slot like you have done with most other items in the game? Being able to move refinement points between characters via the bank would be a big QoL upgrade.
The new meta will be to create a single set of enchants + alternates and transfer them from character to character as you play.
Annoying, yes. But a lot less costly overall.
All 12 of my characters have their own enchants. The only thing I used to move was the bondings after they made that free. The only things I move now are comp gear w/runes and collars.
Same. Except (for arguments sake) let's only include characters with Rank 12+ Enchants equipped.
That's at least 80-90 characters for me.
Welp, I have a lot of Soulforged to upgrade to R10. Since they y'know were extremely good at any rank.
I'm not sure why people think these changes aren't new player friendly. If you are a new player using R8 and R9s your item level and stats aren't really being impacted by your enchants. Given that the Mod won't go live in over a month, the devs have signaled that players who don't have enchants R10 or higher should start saving their AD to purchase the new R1 enchants when Mod 22 goes live. New players can purchase R1 enchants for 100K from Bradda. Given that you now have 4 offensive, 4 defensive, 1 utility, 1 bonus, 1 combat, and 1 companion enchant, that means a player only needs 12 enchants to be fully geared; that comes out to 1.2M AD over the course of a month, or roughly 40K AD/day. Anyone who plays the game at all can scrounge up 40K AD/day. Do that, and the new player will be *significantly* improved in both item level and stats vs where they are now with R8 & R9 enchants.
For us veteran players, I really appreciate the opportunity to continue to grow my character. Maybe wilbur and myself are the only ones who like the change, but I doubt it....
I'm not sure why people think these changes aren't new player friendly. If you are a new player using R8 and R9s your item level and stats aren't really being impacted by your enchants. Given that the Mod won't go live in over a month, the devs have signaled that players who don't have enchants R10 or higher should start saving their AD to purchase the new R1 enchants when Mod 22 goes live. New players can purchase R1 enchants for 100K from Bradda. Given that you now have 4 offensive, 4 defensive, 1 utility, 1 bonus, 1 combat, and 1 companion enchant, that means a player only needs 12 enchants to be fully geared; that comes out to 1.2M AD over the course of a month, or roughly 40K AD/day. Anyone who plays the game at all can scrounge up 40K AD/day. Do that, and the new player will be *significantly* improved in both item level and stats vs where they are now with R8 & R9 enchants.
For us veteran players, I really appreciate the opportunity to continue to grow my character. Maybe wilbur and myself are the only ones who like the change, but I doubt it....
I like some of it. I don't like the reduction of all weapon and armor enchants to 6, and using 1 instead of both. Limits many aspects of the game. Changing the runestones to only 1 type for comps is also very limiting and is beneficial only to DPS and those who run augments. Being able to grow the character is one thing, removing essential, and to many, the most important aspects in the game, is not the definition of growth.
The price of Mark of potency rank 4 dropping to under 15k, cheaper than can be bought from from bazaar w/ discount this week and max vip. People are unsure if there will be a turn in for old marks, which are still sold, and on discount right now. The enchanting stones from dread ring are also dropping quickly. These were currency that many built up over years. Please announce if there is going a turn in, or what the plan is with things that are going to be made useless, or used a fraction of what they were before. Showing the lower usage, or not having a place at all, and not letting people know what they are going to get in return for this, is causing prices on live server to tank.
The two reasons you've given for introducing this change:
1. Feedback from players about the current lack of worth for enchantments 2. The need to introduce higher ranks for future mods
On reason 1, enchantments are currently almost worthless because you reduced the stats they give. It would be much easier to reverse this than introduce a totally new system.
On reason 2, I'd have to ask why? There's no logical reason to need to introduce higher levels, especially if you put them back to their old levels old effectiveness.
The reasons given are so thin as to be unbelievable - suggesting they are excuses and the real reason is something you do not wish to discuss.
Please Do Not Feed The Trolls
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
There is no point of view since Mod 16 that we can talk about character progression, since the higher your Item Level becomes with the current items, the worse your statistics will be. I went to the preview and checked, what my character will be. Around 70-72k (with full mytics everywhere), as a DPS, im havin now <30% on defensive stats, plus I lost the armor enchantment too. HP and base damage increase doesn't compensates this. 90% of the party content is scaled and u get absolutely nothing for 5-10k more hp there. The plus-minus 10-15% defensive stat is visible for everyone. Until the combined stat is lower then the IL of the item, characters will get weaker. <b class="Bold">Thats a regression. Collars giving 50% combined rating of they IL, armor and weapon enchantment givin 0, others stuffs around 80-90%. Add all this together and your character stats keep goin down and down. Combined rating must top the IL of the item, after that we can start speaking about improvement and builds and planing a character.
The two reasons you've given for introducing this change:
1. Feedback from players about the current lack of worth for enchantments 2. The need to introduce higher ranks for future mods
On reason 1, enchantments are currently almost worthless because you reduced the stats they give. It would be much easier to reverse this than introduce a totally new system.
On reason 2, I'd have to ask why? There's no logical reason to need to introduce higher levels, especially if you put them back to their old levels old effectiveness.
The reasons given are so thin as to be unbelievable - suggesting they are excuses and the real reason is something you do not wish to discuss.
Well, it's all about money, it's that simple, and i'd guess they already have several different packages with new enchantments/runestones for the ZEN shop and ready to be released with Mod. 22...
And that would also explain why they haven't added those new enchantments/runestones to lockboxes or the Tarmalune Trade Bar Store, why give players a chance of getting their characters back into shape without having to pay more ZEN for it, right?
Feedback : This is going to be kept as short and clear as possible.
Overall, I don't see the change to refinement bad. In the end, we do end up with more stats in terms of offensive and defensive enchantments... Or rather, we would.
1. Currently blue enchants which we use to replace our rank 15s in total give less ratings than 8x Assassin's and cost to upgrade even one is massive, unless...
2. Motes. We have no info on those. Are there going to be different ranks of motes? Because it's like deciding between 1% and 100% chance, where 1% chance costs, once again, much more than the guarantee, further inflating the 100% mote's price.
3. Combat enchantment. It's absolutely the worst. No combined rating for a very minimal upgrade. Yes, minimal. Players have to account for 5k loss (with mythic combat enchant) in defensive, offensive and utility ratings. That means DPS players definitely lose 5k in all defensive ratings with zero compensation (HP is not a compensation) and 5% total from whatever their forte is providing. Before we at least had resistances from Fireburst or Barkshield... maybe even negation, now those were taken away.
What about scaled instances in this scenario? Some players will have barely same offensive ratings, with an augment, and while their HP will be scaled down, their defenses will also remain unchanged.
Once again, Combined rating is needed. We are at 75k item level on average now and look how my defensive ratings look like:
This is in fact a 5% loss in defensive stats compared to live that I just can't cover up. 10% more HP won't work for 25% defensive stats loss.
Edit:
To make it clearer on what I mean by loss of ratings rank 15s. Yes, we do gain item level... but again, it's a combined rating loss. It can be disregarded in terms of offensive/defensive enchantments. Bonus enchantment which provides 15% speed at maximum rank is only providing 60% of what we used to gain at max rank if we choose movement speed though.
have you tried the right augment companion with the right stats for you? fighting companion got nerfed to the ground when you loose the companion rune slots to add stats, the new enchantments combined rating values seem to low
The new meta will be to create a single set of enchants + alternates and transfer them from character to character as you play.
Annoying, yes. But a lot less costly overall.
All 12 of my characters have their own enchants. The only thing I used to move was the bondings after they made that free. The only things I move now are comp gear w/runes and collars.
They should also do the same thing with mount insignias and collars.
I'm sure I'll be repeating what many others have already voiced in whole or part but here's my viewpoint
It is obvious that lots of effort has been made to ensure that a player with Max Rank in every enchantment slot does not loose any IL etc by transitioning to the new system but at present it's a kick in the crotch to new or mid level players.
A new Rank2 choice box (600IL eqv to R15x3) is 60 Ench. Medallions which is what 3 R15's trade in for. A new Rank1 choice box (300IL eqv to R10x3) cost 30 medallions but you would have to trade in 30 R10's at 1 medallion each to get enough for a single new Rank1 making it impossible for a midlevel player to transition to the new system without either a significant loss of character development or spending AD.
Using my tank as an example, current TIL 37.6k, R9 Weapon and Armour Enchants, mix of R9 and higher other enchants. Of her 23 Enchants only 7 can be traded in and will yield 32 medallions so she can get 1 Rank1 choice pack to get an entry level combat Enchant. The 16 R9's give 1440 IL so to replace that she'd have to spend 500k at the sages shop for 5 enchants but this source does not include combat or companion enchants so to get a companion enchant she'd have to buy 28 medallions at 40k each to get a 2nd green choice pack. For this example to come out the other side of this core change with minimal loss of development and no upgrading she'd have to spend 1.62mil AD! This is not fair when the change is not optional.
The temporary Legendary enchants currently given are a lovely idea and demonstrate the potential of the new higher levels that will be achievable but offer a false boost as the trade in mechanism doesn't even allow you to retain your current item level if you don't have legendary quality everything already.
My suggestion to solve this would be come in 2 parts. Part1: Rank0 common quality BTC non upgradable permanent Enchants at 90% of the values of the New Rank1. This would give everyone a set of R9 equivalents as a transition base line - NO LOSS of progress for players even if they have nothing to exchange. Part 2: Change the scale on the Trade In values so 3 R10's can give enough medallions to purchase a Rank1 choice box enabling midlevel players who are part way through their character development to get like for like replacements.
The R10 cut off on all Trade Ins also means the Rank8 Weapon Enchants that were a reward in the Levelling Adventures cannot be exchanged, this will leave many new players with no combat enchantment at all. I have seen it suggested by another that whatever that reward gets replaced with should be made available to reclaim by all players who have completed the relevant adventure which I think is an excellent idea. Another option would be to extend the Trade In scale on Weapon/Amour enchants down to Rank8 so that reward does not become worthless.
I hope the Trade In system does get an overhaul to reflect the genuine issues so many players have voiced. I fear if it goes live as it stands it will reinforce the idea that NW has ceased to be a credible F2P/Pay for Perks choice.
So what you are saying is all out rank 9s are now useless in this new money grab? So the r9 barkshield, bronzewood and elven battle i got on my alt tank, that i spend millions of AD to buy is now worthless? Thank you once again for destroying our toons. And yes we get about 5k more IL, but the stats can't keep up so we actually drop in stats. 4k IL for a combat encantment? Come on man. And once again or defense seems to drop even more for dps. Im 60k now and spend hours of grunding and some money on Zen to get 15 myth insignia to balance the stats perfectly, and now we are screwed again. You dont even put all max rank enchantments out to grab and test on preveiw so we can actually see what to aim for at end game. You are getting so greedy i understand ppl are leaving the game, and Im pretty close to join them.
...and if they're willing to rip the storylines and locations out of the game and ignoring player loss and player pain they will think nothing of completely overhauling the enchant system and won't really listen to the players either. No amount of 'I'm never spending another $' is going to affect them one iota. They just do what the F they like. We are going to have to just wear whatever happens and adapt. They've made their attitude towards us more than obvious by now.
Apparently pointing-out the bleeding obvious is a 'personal attack'.
> @arazith07 said: > As it is on live now, rank 9s are super cheap anyways and basically useless now. I suspect that the new rank 1s will be just as ubiquitous. You really aren't losing anything as a new player by refining old low rank enchants and getting the new ones. You are trying to apply value that hasn't had value in years.
Well my barkshield, bronzewood and elvenbattle r9s are not cheap. I spent millions on those on my little tank i was building up to play other than dps. Those are now worth 0!
With all this ilvl power creep lately i expect very soon changes/nerfs in ilvl mech. It looks like you don't have a "big picture" what do you want with this game. Due to that you make rush decisions.
See the image below - on the new system I can choose to protect two resources with pres ward. When the upgrade fails one resource is chosen to be consumed. The pres ward is protecting the resource which is OK - but the 2nd pres ward is also consumed even though the enchanting stone would not be destroyed in this case. This in effect means we'll need to use up to 3 times more pres wards than before. Please fix it so that a ward is consumed only if the actual protected resource would be destroyed in the process.
I have seen a few posts about wards being consumed. My understanding is that you use wards to protect any portion that you want to protect and a ward on each warded material is consumed on failure. So having two wards in protects two of the three slots, meaning both wards disappear on failure in addition to the third slots cost being used because it was not warded. If you have one ward in, then you lose on ward and the material for the other two slots. Not sure why y'all think they would have multiple ward slots and only consume a ward from one slot on failure....
I have seen a few posts about wards being consumed. My understanding is that you use wards to protect any portion that you want to protect and a ward on each warded material is consumed on failure. So having two wards in protects two of the three slots, meaning both wards disappear on failure in addition to the third slots cost being used because it was not warded. If you have one ward in, then you lose on ward and the material for the other two slots. Not sure why y'all think they would have multiple ward slots and only consume a ward from one slot on failure....
That's because it doesn't make sense... In the current system you use 1 ward to protect multiple resources. In this new system it actually burns wards for protecting nothing.
Each attempt to upgrade should not burn more than 1 ward since it can only burn only 1 resource.
Comments
Annoying, yes. But a lot less costly overall.
Daily reminder that there are 5+ year old issues that still exist.
My main has all Max rank Enchants and after rebuilding the character (with no upgrading) I compared Preview build stats with Live build stats. There was a boost in Item Level by around 1500 and around 17,000 increase in Life and around 200 increase in damage, also saw an increase in Movement speed (chose movement bonus). Good news ends there. Every other stat was at least a 1000-2000/2-5% drop on Preview over Live - with the exception of 3 which saw an increase of around 1000 rating but drop in total by 1-5%. There were 2 stats where the drop was around 8% total rating in each: they were power and critical strike - no big deal, after all, I am only playing DPS (insert sarcasm here).
So total loss was around 22,500/65% plus Rating/Total across all stats. This is a rough approximation as I have ZERO patience to actually do the math. Besides, maths are hard.
Overall not as bad as I expected, which does not mean it is good or that I like it. Just not as bad as expected.
Of course I have grave fears for my alts which have quite a few lower level or level 9 enchants...
Morale of the story, devs, is listen to your playerbase.
Short point: We need an Offensive AND a Defensive Combat enchant slot. Halve the iLvL of each of them so that together they act the same as one if you have to.
Left as it stands, I wouldn't take anyone not using a Defensive Combat enchant in any content. I don't want dead weight.
If this is the system going forward, the current UI design for enchantments needs improvement to better hide the arbitrary nature of enchantment / stat progression. In the previous system, enchantments were slotted into equiptment which was a helpful way to immerse the player in what they were doing, to mask the pure +numbers system and make it seem more tangible thing you were doing to your equiptment. I would suggest some sort of UI rework to help tie enchantments to the character / equiptment while if possible, maintaining the improvement of not having them follow your armor pieces into the inventory.
Cheers!
I'm ok with R8 and R9 weapon and armor enchants being turned into refinement points, but please let us keep the illusions.
Feedback: Shared refinement points
Could you please make a shared Refinement bank slot like you have done with most other items in the game? Being able to move refinement points between characters via the bank would be a big QoL upgrade.
That's at least 80-90 characters for me.
Welp, I have a lot of Soulforged to upgrade to R10. Since they y'know were extremely good at any rank.
For us veteran players, I really appreciate the opportunity to continue to grow my character. Maybe wilbur and myself are the only ones who like the change, but I doubt it....
1. Feedback from players about the current lack of worth for enchantments
2. The need to introduce higher ranks for future mods
On reason 1, enchantments are currently almost worthless because you reduced the stats they give. It would be much easier to reverse this than introduce a totally new system.
On reason 2, I'd have to ask why? There's no logical reason to need to introduce higher levels, especially if you put them back to their old levels old effectiveness.
The reasons given are so thin as to be unbelievable - suggesting they are excuses and the real reason is something you do not wish to discuss.
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
Member of Casual Dailies - XBox
And that would also explain why they haven't added those new enchantments/runestones to lockboxes or the Tarmalune Trade Bar Store, why give players a chance of getting their characters back into shape without having to pay more ZEN for it, right?
It is obvious that lots of effort has been made to ensure that a player with Max Rank in every enchantment slot does not loose any IL etc by transitioning to the new system but at present it's a kick in the crotch to new or mid level players.
A new Rank2 choice box (600IL eqv to R15x3) is 60 Ench. Medallions which is what 3 R15's trade in for. A new Rank1 choice box (300IL eqv to R10x3) cost 30 medallions but you would have to trade in 30 R10's at 1 medallion each to get enough for a single new Rank1 making it impossible for a midlevel player to transition to the new system without either a significant loss of character development or spending AD.
Using my tank as an example, current TIL 37.6k, R9 Weapon and Armour Enchants, mix of R9 and higher other enchants.
Of her 23 Enchants only 7 can be traded in and will yield 32 medallions so she can get 1 Rank1 choice pack to get an entry level combat Enchant. The 16 R9's give 1440 IL so to replace that she'd have to spend 500k at the sages shop for 5 enchants but this source does not include combat or companion enchants so to get a companion enchant she'd have to buy 28 medallions at 40k each to get a 2nd green choice pack. For this example to come out the other side of this core change with minimal loss of development and no upgrading she'd have to spend 1.62mil AD! This is not fair when the change is not optional.
The temporary Legendary enchants currently given are a lovely idea and demonstrate the potential of the new higher levels that will be achievable but offer a false boost as the trade in mechanism doesn't even allow you to retain your current item level if you don't have legendary quality everything already.
My suggestion to solve this would be come in 2 parts. Part1: Rank0 common quality BTC non upgradable permanent Enchants at 90% of the values of the New Rank1. This would give everyone a set of R9 equivalents as a transition base line - NO LOSS of progress for players even if they have nothing to exchange. Part 2: Change the scale on the Trade In values so 3 R10's can give enough medallions to purchase a Rank1 choice box enabling midlevel players who are part way through their character development to get like for like replacements.
The R10 cut off on all Trade Ins also means the Rank8 Weapon Enchants that were a reward in the Levelling Adventures cannot be exchanged, this will leave many new players with no combat enchantment at all. I have seen it suggested by another that whatever that reward gets replaced with should be made available to reclaim by all players who have completed the relevant adventure which I think is an excellent idea. Another option would be to extend the Trade In scale on Weapon/Amour enchants down to Rank8 so that reward does not become worthless.
I hope the Trade In system does get an overhaul to reflect the genuine issues so many players have voiced. I fear if it goes live as it stands it will reinforce the idea that NW has ceased to be a credible F2P/Pay for Perks choice.
(edits to improve clarity)
> As it is on live now, rank 9s are super cheap anyways and basically useless now. I suspect that the new rank 1s will be just as ubiquitous. You really aren't losing anything as a new player by refining old low rank enchants and getting the new ones. You are trying to apply value that hasn't had value in years.
Well my barkshield, bronzewood and elvenbattle r9s are not cheap. I spent millions on those on my little tank i was building up to play other than dps. Those are now worth 0!
See the image below - on the new system I can choose to protect two resources with pres ward.
When the upgrade fails one resource is chosen to be consumed. The pres ward is protecting the resource which is OK - but the 2nd pres ward is also consumed even though the enchanting stone would not be destroyed in this case.
This in effect means we'll need to use up to 3 times more pres wards than before.
Please fix it so that a ward is consumed only if the actual protected resource would be destroyed in the process.
In the current system you use 1 ward to protect multiple resources.
In this new system it actually burns wards for protecting nothing.
Each attempt to upgrade should not burn more than 1 ward since it can only burn only 1 resource.